- 8 minutes ago
This news report details the political confrontation following reports that Election Commissioners Sukhbir Singh Sandhu and Vivek Joshi submitted fourteen formal objections against decisions by Chief Election Commissioner Gyanesh Kumar regarding the nationwide Special Intensive Revision of electoral rolls, centralized voter data systems, and modifications to Form 6. Congress leaders Rahul Gandhi and P. Chidambaram demanded the resignation or impeachment of the Chief Election Commissioner and sought a parliamentary committee review. The Bharatiya Janata Party countered the allegations by citing Articles 324 to 326 of the Constitution and statutory appeal provisions. RTI activist Anjali Bhardwaj and former Election Commissioner Ashok Lavasa analyzed the centralization of voter list modifications, with Lavasa calling for the cancellation of Phase 3 of the revision exercise. The broadcast also reports on the student suicide case at IIT Bombay involving Sahil Wakode, legal observations against media trials, and the bilateral meeting between Donald Trump and Xi Jinping in Washington.
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00:00Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today, your prime time destination, news, newsmakers, talking points, news without
00:06the noise.
00:08Tonight on the show, our big story at the moment remains the Election Commission expose.
00:15What really is going on in the Election Commission?
00:18Rahul Gandhi is calling for the resignation of the Chief Election Commissioner, Gyanesh Kumar.
00:25That's one of our big talking points. Pee Chidambram is joining me among my guests tonight.
00:31Also on the show tonight, we'll be looking at exactly whether the case at the Mumbai IIT deserved an SCSD
00:42Act atrocities case.
00:44Justice Gabbai is among my guests tonight. But first, as always, it's time for the nine headlines at nine.
00:53Rahul Gandhi now dives into the Election Commissioner debate, says Chief Election Commissioner Gyanesh Kumar should resign.
01:14Sickening video emerges in the Tamil Nadu sex scandal.
01:19More details now emerge that suggest that all that was happening in Tamil Nadu needs even further investigation.
01:37Jammui rerun in Bihar, Samastipur. Four people are held in the case.
01:51New details emerge in Delhi's gang rape horror. Accused Hemant and Mukesh washed clothes after raping minor in a bid
01:59to destroy evidence.
02:00Police add criminal conspiracy charges as they suspect crime was premeditated.
02:08At least nine people killed after a bus catches fire in Greater Noida.
02:13Preliminary probe reveals killer lapses. Survivors claimed driver and conductor were allegedly smoking inside the bus.
02:23Amidst the continuous controversy over a student's death at the Mumbai IIT, IIT Bombay postpones its mid-semester exams to
02:31October.
02:32National SC panel delegation visits IIT Bombay to get more details about Sahel's suicide.
02:44Nifty closes below 23,100 move amidst escalation in West Asia leading to surge in oil prices.
02:53US President Donald Trump welcomes Chinese President Xi Jinping at White House amidst heated rivalry over AI and more.
03:00MEIT also comes after US-passed Russian oil sanctions bill.
03:05And India backs silver in the 4x400 mixed-relay team at the Asian Games.
03:10Third straight Asia mixed-relay medal for India.
03:22But our top story once again.
03:24What began as a reported rift within the poll panel has now snowballed into a political confrontation.
03:30That's right.
03:31The election commissioner of India continues to make the headlines for the wrong reasons.
03:35The India bloc says it's preparing an impeachment motion once again against the chief election commissioner, Gyanesh Kumar.
03:42The CJP has issued a 48-hour resignation ultimatum.
03:46And Rahul Gandhi has made it clear that Gyanesh Kumar must go at once or else turn an approver.
03:54The BJP has hit back, saying the Congress and the opposition are sore losers because they are losing elections.
04:01What exactly is happening inside the election commission and what really is all this revealing about the functioning of the
04:09constitutional poll body.
04:11It's our top story tonight.
04:13Protectors of Mr. Gyanesh Kumar sitting on top of Mr. Gyanesh Kumar.
04:19The divide in the election commission over several aspects of SIR that exposed alleged flaws in the nationwide exercise has
04:27lit a political fire strong.
04:30After the Indian Express reported that two ECs filed 14 objections in 10 months over the manner in which the
04:36exercise is being carried out,
04:39Leader of Opposition Rahul Gandhi on Thursday launched a scathing attack on the Modi government, accusing it of repeatedly rigging
04:46elections.
04:48The Congress leader called for chief election commissioner, Gyanesh Kumar's resignation, while appreciating the two election commissioners, Sukbir Singh Sandhu
04:55and Vivek Joshi, for flagging the alleged illegalities in the conduct of SIR.
05:01Mr. Gyanesh Kumar must resign immediately.
05:04This is not just some small rigging of an election.
05:07This is an attack on the constitution of India.
05:11This is an attack on the legal structure of our country.
05:14The Prime Minister and Amit Shah are both going to be investigated for what has been done.
05:23The BJP's reaction was immediate.
05:26It fiercely defended CEC Gyanesh Kumar.
05:49Earlier, the Kokhrush Janta party demanded CEC Gyanesh Kumar's resignation within 48 hours.
05:56The CJP also called for criminal proceedings against Gyanesh Kumar.
06:01Gyanesh Kumar is the biggest anti-national of this country.
06:06And we should have to resign immediately.
06:09The chief election commissioner has come under fire over the news report,
06:12which revealed repeated objections from Sukbir Singh Sandhu and Vivek Joshi over the SIR exercise.
06:18The two ECs put on record their objections to changes made in Form 6 for new voters.
06:22The centralization of control of electoral roll data and the way the voter deletion appeals were filed in West Bengal.
06:30The news report has opened up Pandora's box and the war of words has just begun.
06:35With more, Smi Singh, Bureau Report, India Today.
06:47Okay, let me go to my first newsmaker tonight.
06:50The former Home Minister and Finance Minister of the country, P. Chidambram, Senior Rajya Sabha, MP of the Congress, joining
06:55me.
06:56Good to have you, Mr. Chidambram, on the show.
06:58Your leader, Rahul Gandhi today, has called for Gyanesh Kumar to resign and in fact turned approver in the case,
07:05accusing him virtually of treason and of having the elections rigged.
07:10Your view, should Gyanesh Kumar resign based on the news reports in the Indian Express?
07:16Or should there be first a proper inquiry, a fair hearing?
07:23He should.
07:24He should step down and then an inquiry can be ordered.
07:29In fact, not only Mr. Rahul Gandhi, Mr. Karge and several others have asked for his resignation.
07:37In fact, I find that this morning's papers, a couple of papers have asked for his resignation.
07:47If he has any sense of contriteness, any sense of responsibility, he should resign immediately.
07:55Why?
07:55What, according to you, is the biggest charge against Gyanesh Kumar that, in your view, should lead to his immediate
08:03resignation?
08:04What, according to you, should lead to his immediate resignation?
08:08There are two separate charges, two separate heads of charges.
08:14One that was revealed yesterday is that he is acting as though he is the election commissioner.
08:22He is not the election commissioner.
08:25He is the election commission, commission is a multi-member body.
08:30The other two are equals.
08:35He is the first among equals.
08:38Like in the Supreme Court or the High Court, a three-judge bench is all equals.
08:45Then the majority rule will prevail or the unanimity rule will prevail.
08:52If he is in the minority, as the other two commissioners have pointed out in several instances,
09:01then that, his view cannot be the decision of the election commission.
09:06But he has passed off his view as the election commission's decision.
09:11This is ultra-virus.
09:13This is unconstitutional.
09:15This is, I don't want to use the strong word which my party leaders have used,
09:23may amount to treason.
09:25No, no, you're saying that, but the fact is the election commission has put out a press release
09:30saying that all the decisions were unanimous.
09:32And the fact is that the other two election commissioners therefore possibly fell in line.
09:43Let's see the file, let's see the decision, let's see the deliberations, let's see the notes file.
09:51Then we will draw our own conclusion.
09:55We are not dumb.
09:57Indian people are not dumb or stupid.
09:59You release the entire file and we will draw our own conclusions,
10:05whether the allegation is correct or the explanation is correct.
10:09So you're saying if Gyanesh Kumar has turned the election commission into a one-man show,
10:15overruled his other fellow election commissioners who called certain decisions illegal and unauthorized,
10:22that's the reason you believe that he has to go.
10:25But there will be those who will say the Congress is trying to build a narrative.
10:29Rahul Gandhi today trying to build a narrative seemingly suggesting that all elections since 2024 have been rigged.
10:35The entire electoral rolls of this country have been rigged.
10:38I mean, if they've been rigged, then why are you contesting elections?
10:47Please understand, the files will disclose whether the allegation is true or the explanation is true.
10:57We did not start the subject.
11:00It is the Indian Express's investigation, investigating journalist who started the subject.
11:07We did not invent it.
11:09We are going by the allegations.
11:13We are going by the facts disclosed.
11:16We are asking for the files and the note sheet.
11:20And we will draw our own conclusion.
11:23The people of India will draw their own conclusion.
11:26Why are you hiding behind a secrecy and opaqueness?
11:30No, it's a constitutional body.
11:32You're saying the constitutional body's deliberation should be made public.
11:37You're saying constitutional body deliberation should be made public.
11:41The constitutional body deliberation should be made public.
11:46What is secret about this constitutional body?
11:49The Supreme Court is a constitutional body.
11:53It makes available its judgment.
11:56It makes available its proceedings on live telecast.
12:02The legislature is a constitutional body.
12:06The Tamil Nadu legislature has a 24 by 7 live telecast.
12:12What is great about this word constitutional body?
12:16A constitutional body must be informed by transparency, transparency and openness.
12:23You didn't answer my question.
12:25Your leader is saying all recent elections have been rigged.
12:29If they have been rigged, then why are you contesting elections if you have lost faith in the electoral process?
12:38We have lost faith in the electoral process for many, many reasons.
12:43We have said that.
12:44Sir, sir, SIR is one damaging reason why the ordinary people of India have lost faith in elections.
12:55Please understand one thing.
12:58Lacks of people have been removed from the electoral roll.
13:01I know several lawyers who have been removed.
13:05One lawyer and his wife had to go to the Gujarat CEO a dozen times to prove that he is
13:16a citizen.
13:17He has voted in many, many elections.
13:21He was a candidate in one election.
13:24His nomination was accepted.
13:26Then what does he have to prove?
13:28You remember, Amartya Sen was issued a notice.
13:34CNR Rao was issued a notice.
13:37I believe Mr. Advani was issued a notice.
13:40What is this going on?
13:42So, are you saying the SIR process as it stands should be, are you saying the SIR process should be
13:48suspended immediately all over the country?
13:53We have tweeted that not only me, S.Y. Qureshi, the former chief election commissioner, has said that the SIR
14:04process must be suspended.
14:06Ashok Lavazza, a former election commissioner, has tweeted that the SIR process must be suspended.
14:16According to me, the SIR process must be immediately suspended and after an inquiry, it must be reversed.
14:24First, you are also saying all decisions of the ECI in recent years should be reviewed by a parliamentary committee.
14:31Are you therefore saying, effectively, if these decisions were seen by two of the election commissioners as unauthorized and illegal,
14:41are you saying all the recent elections, therefore, also the election outcome should be reviewed, that you want a repoll?
14:47I have heard Kapil Sibyl saying that, he says that all the elections in the last two years, or the
14:52elections suddenly under SIR, there should be a repoll.
15:00Mr. Sibyl is capable of defending his views and explaining his views.
15:06I have said the election commissioners can only be impeached, impeached by parliament.
15:12There is no other way to remove them.
15:14I am stopping one step short of that impeachment.
15:21Let the parliamentary committee review the entire files for the last three, four years, including the SIR files,
15:33including the decisions by the election commission, and let the parliamentary committee give its view.
15:42Let me ask you one more time, there will be those, particularly from the BJP, who are saying, Congress have
15:48been sore losers.
15:49And because you have lost so many elections, you have found a scapegoat in Gyanesh Kumar and the election commission.
15:55That you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater, dissent is part of election commission proceedings.
16:02The Congress, on the basis of that, cannot call for the resignation of Gyanesh Kumar, they should look within, as
16:08to why they are losing elections.
16:13Which is the baby, which is the bathwater?
16:16If you provoke me, I will say the election commission is the baby.
16:21Mr. Gyanesh Kumar is the bathwater.
16:23Therefore, please understand, in phase one of the SIR, 65 lakhs were deleted.
16:31That accounts for 7.9%.
16:34In phase two, 6.5 crore were deleted.
16:40That accounts for 12.6% of the adult population.
16:45In phase three, 6.1 crore were deleted.
16:50That amounts to a whopping 17.18% respectively.
16:57Until the appeals are decided, they can't vote.
17:01And in West Bengal alone, the Supreme Court was told, and I have made my calculations,
17:07in West Bengal alone, it will take 20 years to dispose of the pending appeals.
17:14And remember, there are judges who are appointed to hear the appeals.
17:20Ninety-one percent of appeals were allowed.
17:23What does it mean?
17:25It is a...
17:26If 91% of a judgment of a judge, judgments of a judge are reversed, he is unfit to be
17:33a judgment.
17:34Unfit to be a judge.
17:36Ninety-one percent of the appeals have been allowed in West Bengal.
17:40You are saying that's under the logical discrepancies out of the cases heard so far.
17:45You are telling me Gyanesh Kumar is unfit to be the Chief Election Commissioner of the country.
17:50But you didn't respond to my question time and again.
17:54Will you boycott, do you believe, would you advise the Congress to boycott future elections?
17:58Yes or no?
17:59And is the Congress a sore loser, yes or no?
18:06I can't give my advice on television.
18:10That is the CWC will decide.
18:13CWC is meeting, I believe, on Tuesday.
18:16The CWC will decide the course of action.
18:20I can't pronounce what is the course of action.
18:25What's your view?
18:26You are playing very safe there.
18:27What's your view?
18:28Do you believe that opposition parties should come together and take far greater action than they have so far?
18:34If you believe so strongly, if your leader believes so strongly that elections are being rigged?
18:42One thing, opposition parties must get together.
18:47Opposition parties must act together.
18:50Opposition parties must take the further steps together.
18:55What steps they will take, the CWC will decide.
18:59And then the all-party meeting will decide.
19:03My final question, which you again didn't answer, which you sidestepped a bit.
19:08BJP is saying Congress sore loser.
19:11There is no anti-incumbency against Mr. Modi as Rahul Gandhi believes.
19:15A quick answer.
19:19What else will the BJP say?
19:23Let the next election take place under fair and reasonable circumstances.
19:31Then we will see who the people back and who the people will defeat.
19:37I believe that the BJP will be defeated in a nationwide election for parliament if the elections are held on
19:48a free and fair basis and the electoral rolls do not have these crores of deletions.
19:56And you are saying the next election should be held, you are saying Gyanesh Kumar should not be as the
20:01head of the election commission when those elections are held.
20:04You have lost faith in Gyanesh Kumar.
20:07And you will go ahead and try and impeach him.
20:10Yes.
20:11And you will go ahead and try and impeach him.
20:13Well, I don't know what the CWC will say.
20:16I can only point out the legal position.
20:20The election commissioners can only be removed by impeachment.
20:24Therefore, the CWC will decide on the next course of action.
20:29But if the next election is held without Mr. Gyanesh Kumar and the present ECI, it will be a fair
20:38and free election.
20:40Okay, I'm going to leave it there, Mr. Chidambaram.
20:44Appreciate you joining me here on the news today.
20:53Okay, let's raise the big questions there.
20:55Rahul Gandhi's call for the CEC's ouster, is it justified?
20:59You heard Chidambaram there.
21:00Should the CEC Gyanesh Kumar come clean with a point-by-point rebuttal?
21:05Has the SIR exercise lost credibility?
21:07Is the EC also at risk of losing Amadmi's trust cloud over CEC?
21:11Will it impact the government's image?
21:13Joining me now in the studio this time, Sanju Verma, national spokesperson, BJP.
21:18Anjali Bhardwaj, co-convener, national campaign for people's right to information.
21:22Appreciate both of you joining us.
21:23Sanju Verma, to you first.
21:25You heard Mr. Chidambaram.
21:26He's echoing what Rahul Gandhi is saying, that the election, chief election commissioner must resign.
21:31Why is the BJP batting for the chief election commissioner?
21:34No, a constitutional body.
21:35He can defend himself.
21:38The reason the BJP is defending the chief election commissioner, Mr. Gyanesh Kumar, no less,
21:43is because the opposition and the Darbari ecosystem is hell-bent on proving that elections were stolen post-2014.
21:51My limited point is this, before pointing fingers Rajdeep at Gyanesh Kumar, the Congress needs to go back and look
21:59at its own track record.
22:01The limited point is this, that TN Session was a cabinet secretary.
22:06He was a defense secretary.
22:08He was then made the chief election commissioner.
22:10And lo and behold, he was later even given a ticket to contest elections from Gandhinagar.
22:15That he lost to LK Advani is besides the point.
22:18But the Darbari ecosystem says, oh my God, TN Session jaisa toh crusader tha hi nahi.
22:24TN Session jaisa reformer toh tha hi nahi.
22:27And let's come to this entire business of dissent notes by his own colleagues against the CEC.
22:34You are a seasoned journalist.
22:36In 2009, there were multiple dissent notes against Naveen Chawla.
22:42The matter went right up to the then-president Pratibha Patil.
22:46The dissent notes were dismissed.
22:48And that was the end of the story.
22:50In 2012, the chief election commissioner was a man called V.S. Sampath.
22:54There were multiple dissent notes against him.
22:57The matter once again went to Pratibha Patil, the then-president.
23:00The dissent notes were completely dismissed.
23:03And that was the end of the matter.
23:05No, no, but there are two differences from what you've said.
23:07One, the fact is that these are not just ordinary dissent notes.
23:12Here they are calling the actions illegal and unauthorized.
23:16Illegal actions, ma'am.
23:17They are calling actions illegal.
23:20Are you telling me that the election commission is going to now run in a manner
23:24where illegal actions are being ratified simply by Gyanesh Kumar?
23:28That's the point.
23:29They're not just ordinary dissent notes, ma'am.
23:31So, Rajdeep, let me just make one thing very clear.
23:34The election commission derives its powers from Article 324, 325, and 326 of the Indian Constitution.
23:42When Rahul Gandhi says vote-chori hui hai, when P. Chidamram, who's out on bail in the INX media scam,
23:49says vote-chori hui hai, when the Darbari ecosystem says vote-chori hui hai,
23:52I want to turn around and ask a question.
23:55Has Gyanesh Kumar violated the powers bestowed on him under Article 324, 325, 326?
24:02No.
24:02Is SIR a legally mandated constitutional exercise that was upheld by former CGI Chandrachurk,
24:10was upheld by former CGI Sanjeev Khanna,
24:13and was more recently upheld by the current CGI Surya Khan?
24:17Has Mr. Gyanesh Kumar violated the powers bestowed on him by the Constitution?
24:21No.
24:23And my final point is this.
24:24Rahul Gandhi says vote-chori hui hai,
24:26but when the Kerala mandate goes in favor of the Congress,
24:30he says we thank the people of Kerala.
24:32But he says,
24:33Bangal mein vote-chori hui hai,
24:35when 4.5 lakh votes were deleted in Karnataka,
24:39the BJP lost and the Congress won.
24:42Tab Darbari ecosystem nae kaha sab changasi.
24:45In Himachal Pradesh, 37,000 votes were deleted,
24:49and that was the loss margin of the BJP.
24:51We did not play the victim or cry foul.
24:54And Rahul Gandhi said,
24:55Himachal elections are free and fair.
24:56Why?
24:57Because the Congress won.
24:58And in Telangana Rajdeep,
25:0116 lakh voters were deleted,
25:04and the BJP lost and Congress won.
25:07BJP did not play the victim card,
25:09and Rahul Gandhi said,
25:09we thank the electorate of Telangana.
25:12You mean,
25:12you win all right.
25:14If you win,
25:15you have to play the victim card.
25:17You can't have your cake and eat it too.
25:18I've heard you.
25:20Anjali Bhardwaj,
25:21you're not a politician,
25:22so you don't need to give a political response.
25:24But there will be those who will say
25:25that the deletions itself,
25:27I mean,
25:28what is the objection that activists have?
25:30Is it to the entire SIR exercise?
25:32Is it to the way Gyanesh Kumar
25:34allegedly is converting the EC
25:36into a one-man show?
25:37Is it about the centralized software system
25:40that seemingly decides
25:41who is eligible to vote and who is not?
25:44Is it about Form 6
25:45and the way the rules of that were changed?
25:47Give me your specific,
25:49your specific objection,
25:51why you believe Gyanesh Kumar
25:53is violating the law?
25:54According to Sanju Verma,
25:55there is no law,
25:56constitutional law,
25:57that he has violated.
25:59So Rajdeep,
26:01let me start by saying
26:02that voter lists
26:04are the soul
26:05of an electoral democracy.
26:07If voter lists
26:09are manipulated,
26:11elections can be manipulated,
26:13electoral outcomes
26:15can be decided
26:16before elections are even held.
26:18What we are facing today
26:20and what we are discussing,
26:22let's squarely address that question.
26:25the question is
26:26who is making the voter lists
26:29in our country?
26:31Who is deciding
26:32that nearly 13 crore people's names
26:37are to be deleted
26:38under the special intensive revision
26:40of voter rolls in our country?
26:43And what we are seeing
26:45is that it does not appear
26:48to be the Election Commission of India,
26:51which is constitutionally mandated
26:53to make voter lists.
26:55I filed an RTI request, Rajdeep,
26:59when the SIR was started
27:01and I asked for a copy
27:03of the files
27:04under which the decision
27:06to take an SIR was taken.
27:08The principal secretary
27:11of the Election Commission of India
27:13gave to me in writing
27:15that the decision
27:17to undertake an SIR
27:19has not been taken
27:21by the Election Commission of India.
27:23How serious is that?
27:25If the Election Commission
27:27is today telling us
27:28that they did not
27:30take the decision,
27:31who did?
27:32Was it taken
27:33in the Ministry of Home Affairs?
27:35Was it taken
27:35in the Prime Minister's office?
27:37Who took that decision
27:38by which nearly 13 crore people
27:41are today staring at
27:42being disenfranchised
27:43or their names
27:44are being deleted
27:45from the voter list?
27:46Now, the Indian Express investigation
27:49has shown
27:51that two out of the three
27:53Election Commissioners
27:54in our country
27:55have been repeatedly
27:57raising very, very serious
28:00red flags.
28:01What are they raising
28:03these red flags about?
28:04They are saying
28:05that the ECINET,
28:07the portal on which
28:09every electoral registration officer,
28:12ERO,
28:13is supposed to add
28:15and delete names
28:16of voters,
28:18the EROs are unable
28:20to access it.
28:21Now, let me just explain
28:23the gravity of this.
28:25In our country,
28:27under the representation
28:28of People's Act,
28:29under the Constitution,
28:30even Mr. Gyanesh Kumar
28:32cannot add
28:33and delete names
28:34as the CEC.
28:36Only the EROs
28:37have the right
28:38to add or delete
28:40voters' names.
28:41I'll let you.
28:41Be patient.
28:42Please, let me finish.
28:44Only they have the right.
28:45It's a serious issue.
28:46Yeah, go ahead.
28:46Go ahead.
28:47Only the EROs,
28:48only the EROs
28:50have the right
28:51to make additions
28:53or deletions
28:54in the voter list
28:55and they are not
28:56being able
28:57to access
28:58the ECINET.
29:00The election commissioners
29:02are raising
29:04this question.
29:05They are saying
29:05then who is
29:06authorized
29:06to make changes?
29:08Who is making
29:09the change?
29:10No, wait, Rajdeep.
29:11This is very,
29:12very important
29:12because
29:16if it is not
29:18the EROs
29:19then who is
29:20deciding
29:20the additions
29:21and deletions?
29:22Is it somebody
29:23sitting in the MHA?
29:24Is it somebody
29:25sitting in the PMO?
29:27Then who is
29:28going to decide
29:29whether
29:30the electoral
29:31lists
29:32of our country
29:33they have
29:33any sanctity
29:34or not?
29:35The question
29:35today is that.
29:37Okay.
29:37I've heard you.
29:39Sanju ma'am.
29:40Anjali,
29:40I've heard you.
29:41You've made
29:41a very significant
29:42point.
29:43You're saying
29:44who is deciding
29:45who is to be
29:46deleted,
29:46who is to be
29:47added in the EROs,
29:48the electoral
29:49registration officers
29:50are being denied
29:51access to that
29:52or their views
29:52are being bypassed
29:53as happened
29:54with 97 voters
29:55in Goa
29:56for example.
29:57Sanju Verma,
29:58now you respond.
29:59You see,
29:59it cannot be
30:00that if there
30:02are illegal
30:02and unauthorized
30:03actions being
30:04taken place
30:05that
30:08because
30:10what you're
30:10finding is
30:11illegal
30:12unauthorized
30:12actions
30:13red flagged
30:14by the
30:15election
30:15commissioners
30:16themselves,
30:17Mr. Sandhu
30:18and Mr.
30:18Joshi
30:18are being
30:19bypassed.
30:20That's the point.
30:21Why are you
30:22then defending
30:22Gyanesh Kumar?
30:23Why doesn't
30:23he come clean
30:24with a point
30:24by point
30:25rebuttal?
30:26Now Rajdeep,
30:27you asked a
30:27question.
30:28Let me have
30:28a rebuttal.
30:29Gyanesh Kumar,
30:31I repeat,
30:32is a
30:33constitutional
30:35position
30:35holder
30:36and he
30:36derives
30:37his powers
30:38thanks to
30:39article 324
30:40of the
30:40constitution.
30:41Anjali
30:41Bharadwaj
30:42can sit
30:42here and
30:43question the
30:44credibility of
30:45Gyanesh Kumar
30:45but it means
30:46nothing because
30:47the basic
30:48stuff that
30:49your audience
30:50needs to know
30:51is that
30:51every decision
30:52of the election
30:53commission,
30:54unless the
30:55entire body,
30:56unless Gyanesh
30:57Kumar and
30:58his two or
30:58three colleagues
30:59who are part
30:59of the
30:59commission
31:00sign off,
31:02that particular
31:03decision does
31:04not get
31:04executed,
31:06point number
31:06one.
31:07And I
31:08repeat,
31:09dissent notes
31:09are routine
31:10protocol.
31:11The third
31:12point which I
31:12want to
31:13reinforce again
31:14and again
31:14and again,
31:15the Supreme
31:16Court has
31:17said that if
31:18some voters
31:19are deleted,
31:20that does not
31:21mean that they
31:22are disenfranchised.
31:24They can knock
31:25on the doors of
31:26the appellate
31:26tribunal and
31:27they can be
31:28re-inducted
31:29into the
31:29voting list.
31:31By then an
31:31election is
31:31over.
31:32Look at what
31:32is happening
31:33in Bengal.
31:33please finish?
31:34No,
31:34one minute.
31:35No,
31:35no.
31:35This is not
31:36a normal
31:36appeal.
31:37I am
31:37deleted from
31:38the voter
31:39list.
31:39I have to
31:39knock on
31:40the door.
31:40By then
31:41the election
31:41is over.
31:42Can I
31:42please finish?
31:42What door
31:43am I knocking
31:43on?
31:44No,
31:44you did
31:44not.
31:45You did
31:45not
31:45interrupt.
31:46I did
31:46not
31:46interrupt
31:47you
31:47also
31:47initially
31:48but now
31:48because
31:48you are
31:49making
31:49the point.
31:49Yeah,
31:50please do.
31:51Yeah,
31:51you know,
31:51let's not
31:52have a
31:52tutu.
31:52I am
31:53sitting in
31:53your studio.
31:54The least
31:54I expect
31:54is to be
31:55given fair
31:55Yes,
31:56madam.
31:56Yes,
31:56go ahead.
31:57Yes,
31:57so please
31:57Rajdeep
31:58ji,
31:58I want
32:00to simply
32:01say this.
32:02How is
32:03it that
32:04after 2014
32:05simply because
32:06Rahul Gandhi
32:07and the
32:07Darbari
32:08ecosystem
32:08has failed
32:09to take
32:09on Narendra
32:10Modi's
32:11popularity
32:11at the
32:12hustings,
32:13suddenly
32:14they say
32:15enforcement
32:16directorate
32:16is a
32:17handmaiden
32:17of the
32:17Modi
32:18government,
32:18CBI
32:19is a
32:19handmaiden
32:20of the
32:20Modi
32:20government,
32:21Supreme
32:21Court
32:21is a
32:22handmaiden
32:22of the
32:22Modi
32:23government,
32:23Election
32:24Commission
32:24is a
32:25handmaiden
32:25of the
32:25Modi
32:25government.
32:27For 43
32:28years,
32:29Madhya
32:29Pradesh
32:30was ruled
32:30by Congress.
32:31For 33
32:32years,
32:33Bihar
32:33was under
32:34Congress
32:34rule.
32:35For 25
32:36years,
32:37Congress
32:37ruled
32:37Gujarat.
32:38For more
32:38than 18
32:39years,
32:40Congress
32:40ruled
32:40Goa.
32:41For 20
32:42years,
32:42Congress
32:43ruled
32:43Tamil
32:43Radu.
32:44Now,
32:44all are
32:45good.
32:45I am
32:46talking
32:46about
32:46today.
32:46Forget
32:46Congress.
32:48You are
32:49changing
32:50the
32:50goalpost
32:50by
32:50water
32:51boundary.
32:51I am
32:51asking you
32:52today.
32:53Today,
32:53if illegal
32:54unauthorized
32:55decisions are
32:55being taken,
32:57despite two
32:57of the
32:58election
32:58commissioners
32:59flagging it
32:59off,
33:00does that
33:00not raise
33:01questions over
33:01the way the
33:02election
33:02commission is
33:03functioning?
33:04I am
33:05answering that
33:05and now this
33:06time I don't
33:06want you to
33:07please...
33:07if eligibility
33:08of a citizen
33:09is being
33:09decided by
33:10a centralized
33:10software which
33:11according to
33:12Anjali Bhardwaj
33:12is being
33:13controlled,
33:13she is
33:14suggesting she
33:15has no proof
33:16of it by the
33:16home ministry.
33:18Rajdeep,
33:19you are sitting
33:19here as a
33:20journalist.
33:20You are not
33:21sitting here as
33:22Anjali Bhardwaj's
33:24ambassador.
33:24Not everything
33:25that she says
33:26is Raja
33:27Harish Chandra
33:27ki lakir.
33:28Please now
33:28wait.
33:29Please wait.
33:30You are a
33:31journalist,
33:31supposedly a
33:32neutral one.
33:34Anjali Bhardwaj
33:34has made this
33:35allegation,
33:36Sanju Verma.
33:36Anjali Bhardwaj,
33:37I don't care
33:38what Anjali Bhardwaj
33:39says.
33:40Do I care about
33:41the Supreme
33:41Court?
33:42Yes.
33:42Has Supreme
33:43Court given
33:44a clean shit
33:45to the election
33:45commission repeatedly
33:46saying it is
33:48well within its
33:48rights to conduct
33:49SIR?
33:50Yes.
33:51So who the
33:51hell is Anjali
33:52Bhardwaj?
33:53Who the hell
33:53is Sanju Verma?
33:54Who the hell
33:55is Rahul Gandhi?
33:56Who the hell
33:56is Radheep
33:57Sardesai?
33:57Who the hell
33:58is Akhilesh
33:59Yadav?
33:59Who the hell
33:59is Mamata
34:00Banerji?
34:01Nobody.
34:01And my final
34:02point,
34:03Ramdeep Ji,
34:03let me tell
34:04you one thing.
34:052005,
34:07a man called
34:07Naveen Chawla
34:08was appointed
34:09as an election
34:10commissioner
34:11by a lady
34:12called Sonia
34:13Gandhi who
34:14did not hold
34:15any constitutional
34:16position.
34:17In 2009,
34:18the same
34:19Naveen Chawla
34:20was promoted
34:20as the chief
34:21election commissioner
34:22and Darbari
34:23ecosystem said,
34:24Vajiva,
34:25Naveen Chawla
34:26ki appointment
34:27inko sahih
34:28lagi.
34:28TN session
34:29ki appointment
34:30inko sahih
34:31lagi.
34:31VS Sampat
34:32ki appointment
34:33inko sahih
34:34lagi.
34:34KVK Sundaram
34:35who was the
34:36CEC
34:37was given
34:37a Padma
34:38vibhushan
34:39by the
34:40Congress
34:40government
34:40woh inko sahih
34:41laga.
34:42RK Trivedi
34:43who was a
34:44CEC
34:44under the
34:45Congress
34:45government
34:45was given
34:46a Padma
34:46bhushan
34:47woh inko
34:48sahih
34:48laga.
34:49VS Rama
34:49Devi
34:50who was a
34:50CEC
34:51was given
34:52the position
34:52of a
34:53governor.
34:53Darbari
34:54was very
34:54happy.
34:55But
34:55today
34:56Naraas
34:56Fufa
34:58because the
34:59Congress
35:00has failed
35:00to win
35:01any
35:01credible
35:02election.
35:03Okay.
35:03I've heard
35:03you.
35:04You see
35:04the thing
35:04is that
35:04I was
35:05trying to
35:05focus on
35:06the facts
35:06of this
35:06case.
35:07You've
35:07taken us
35:07back in
35:08history.
35:08I'm
35:09glad to
35:09hear a
35:10history
35:10lesson
35:10from you.
35:11I'm
35:11always
35:11a
35:12student
35:12of
35:12history.
35:12But
35:12final
35:13word
35:13Anjali
35:13Bardwaj.
35:14You see
35:14you're
35:15making an
35:15allegation
35:16that this
35:17software is
35:18being
35:18centralized
35:19and run
35:19through the
35:19home
35:20ministry
35:20or the
35:20PMO.
35:21You have
35:21no proof
35:22of that.
35:22All that
35:23we know
35:23there is
35:23an IT
35:24department
35:24in the
35:25ECI
35:25which at
35:25least
35:26in the
35:26case
35:26of
35:26Goa
35:27as has
35:27been
35:28revealed
35:28today
35:28was
35:29saying
35:29that
35:29they were
35:30not even
35:31willing to
35:31accept
35:32what the
35:32ERO
35:38at the
35:39moment
35:39there is
35:40no evidence
35:41that this
35:41centralized
35:41software
35:42is
35:43necessarily
35:44being
35:44managed
35:44by the
35:44HM
35:45or the
35:45PMO.
35:46That's
35:46an
35:47allegation.
35:47Correct?
35:49So I
35:50ask you
35:50again
35:51Ms.
35:51Bardwaj in
35:51conclusion.
35:52Rajdeep
35:52let me
35:53respond.
35:53What is
35:54the way
35:54forward?
35:54What is
35:55the way
35:55forward?
35:56Give me
35:56a solution.
35:57I mean
35:57are you
35:57saying
35:57only if
35:58the
35:58chief
35:58election
35:59and
35:59individual
35:59is
36:00removed
36:00suddenly
36:00the
36:01system
36:01changes?
36:02We
36:02need to
36:02clean up
36:03roles.
36:07You
36:08first
36:09say
36:09that
36:09I
36:10make
36:10no
36:10allegation.
36:12I
36:12am
36:12saying
36:13that
36:14if
36:14the
36:15IT
36:15system
36:17is
36:18being
36:18centralized
36:19then
36:20any
36:21possibility
36:21exists.
36:22Who
36:22is
36:23controlling
36:23it?
36:24Now
36:25let me
36:25say
36:26this
36:26repeatedly
36:27whenever
36:28there are
36:28questions
36:29and this
36:29is not
36:29just
36:30the
36:30last
36:3012
36:30years
36:31anytime
36:31that
36:32there
36:32are
36:32questions
36:32to
36:33the
36:33election
36:33commission
36:34that
36:34the
36:35voter
36:35list
36:35might
36:36be
36:36manipulated
36:37the
36:38election
36:38commission
36:39always
36:40says
36:40that
36:41look
36:41this
36:42process
36:42is
36:42decentralized
36:43there
36:44are
36:44lakhs
36:45of
36:45eros
36:45who
36:46are
36:46doing
36:46this
36:47process
36:47no
36:48no
36:48no
36:48madam
36:48madam
36:51that's
36:51not
36:51fair
36:52who
36:52are
36:53making
36:54viciously
36:55reckless
36:55allegations
36:55we
36:56take
36:57you
36:57to
36:57the
36:57courts
36:57do
36:58not
36:58make
36:59reckless
36:59allegations
37:00we
37:00drag
37:00you
37:00to
37:00the
37:01courts
37:01madam
37:02you
37:02are
37:03in the
37:03studio
37:03I
37:04can't
37:04put
37:04your
37:04fader
37:04down
37:05but
37:05you
37:05must
37:05stop
37:05I
37:05have
37:0630
37:06seconds
37:06no
37:07no
37:08you
37:08take
37:09her
37:09to
37:09the
37:09court
37:09please
37:10take
37:10her
37:10to
37:10the
37:10court
37:11that's
37:11your
37:11lookout
37:11please
37:12have
37:1230
37:13seconds
37:13without
37:14interruption
37:14now that
37:15defense
37:15is gone
37:16if it is not
37:21decentralized
37:22the making of
37:23the voter list
37:24then it is
37:25centralized
37:26who is
37:27making the
37:28changes
37:53so as the
37:55controversy
37:56continues to
37:57simmer over
37:57the election
37:58commission
37:58split wide
37:59open
37:59let's go to
38:00another guest
38:00joining me
38:01now is
38:01Ashok
38:02Lavasa
38:03former
38:03election
38:04commissioner
38:04appreciate
38:05you joining
38:06us
38:06Mr.
38:07Lavasa
38:07do you
38:08believe
38:08and I
38:09want to
38:09ask this
38:09as directly
38:10as possible
38:10you've been
38:11hearing all
38:11the responses
38:12to the
38:13Indian
38:13Express
38:13story
38:14in your
38:15view
38:15do you
38:16believe
38:16that
38:17Gyanesh
38:17Kumarji's
38:18position
38:19has become
38:19untenable
38:21well it
38:22is certainly
38:23awkward
38:23in the
38:24sense
38:24that
38:25all
38:26the
38:28blame
38:28all the
38:29allegations
38:29that are
38:30being made
38:31they point
38:32towards
38:32working of
38:34the election
38:34commission
38:35in which
38:36probably there
38:37was not so
38:37much of
38:38harmony
38:39there was not
38:40so much of
38:40smooth functioning
38:41so as the
38:43chairman of the
38:44commission
38:44certainly I think
38:46he has a lot
38:46to explain
38:48so are you
38:49saying that the
38:50press release
38:50that the election
38:51commission has
38:51issued so far
38:52was just a
38:54formal press
38:55release they
38:55need to do
38:56far more
38:57point by
38:57point rebuttal
38:58on critical
38:59issues how
39:00was form 6
39:01changed how
39:02why was the
39:02software centralized
39:04why were the
39:05eros bypassed
39:06all these
39:07critical questions
39:08do you believe
39:09that the
39:10election commission
39:11needs to give
39:12the country a
39:13point by point
39:13rebuttal
39:15exactly I think
39:16that is the
39:17first step
39:17because the
39:19allegations that
39:20have been made
39:21or the
39:22imputations in
39:23the report of
39:25the Indian
39:25Express they
39:26point to
39:27certain specific
39:28facts and
39:30unless there is
39:31a denial or
39:33there is a
39:33further follow up
39:34of these facts
39:35by way of
39:36whether these
39:37letters were
39:38received in the
39:39commission when
39:39they were
39:40received what
39:41did the
39:41commission do
39:42with these
39:43letters were
39:44they examined
39:45on the file
39:46was the file
39:47put back to
39:48the commissioner
39:49concern what
39:50was his view
39:51on the file
39:52or were
39:53these issues
39:54considered in
39:55the meeting of
39:56the election
39:56commission if
39:57at all they
39:58were then when
39:59did that meeting
40:00take place who
40:01attended the
40:02meeting I think
40:03these are all
40:04facts that must
40:05come out in
40:06the open
40:08you're saying
40:09the entire
40:10decision making
40:10process in a
40:11way should come
40:12out in the
40:12open because I
40:13recall when you
40:14were also election
40:15commissioner you
40:15had flagged off
40:16your descent
40:17presumably you
40:18had put that
40:19descent on
40:19record am I
40:21correct you're
40:23right but you
40:24know Rajdeep this
40:26is a different
40:26situation altogether
40:27a descent would
40:30qualify as a
40:31descent a if
40:33there is a formal
40:33meeting of the
40:34commission and in
40:35that two persons
40:37hold one view and
40:38one holds another
40:39view that
40:40technically is a
40:41descent here what
40:44what we are made
40:45to believe is that
40:46two persons have
40:47one view and one
40:49person has another
40:50view so the
40:51dissenter is the
40:53third person it is
40:55not the two election
40:56commissioners who are
40:57writing letters and
40:58if they have a
41:00common view in the
41:01matter which was
41:02discussed in the
41:03election commission
41:04meeting only then I
41:06think it should be
41:06categorized as a
41:08descent but can I
41:09since you mentioned
41:10SIR do you believe
41:11therefore that the
41:12present SIR exercise
41:14is increasingly
41:16therefore losing its
41:17credibility should it
41:18be redone should it
41:20be stopped suspended
41:22till all the
41:23questions that you are
41:24asking are sufficiently
41:25answered I had said
41:27this on your show
41:28three four days back
41:30according to my
41:31understanding and
41:33judgment the current
41:35SIR exercise of
41:36phase three should be
41:38scrapped should be
41:39scrapped
41:40yes and we should
41:42go back to the
41:43drawing board all
41:44the electoral roles
41:45pre SIR continue
41:48to have legal
41:49validity therefore
41:51whatever changes are
41:52to be made in those
41:54electoral roles they
41:56should be made as
41:57per the normal
41:57process of revision
41:59which is provided
42:00for in the rules
42:01what happened
42:02therefore to the
42:03election that have
42:03been held under
42:04this SIR Bihar
42:05Bengal Tamil Nadu
42:07Kerala what
42:08happens to all those
42:09elections that were
42:09held under this very
42:11same SIR exercise
42:12with mass deletions
42:15I said about phase
42:17three I did not
42:20talk about phase one
42:21and phase two
42:22because according to
42:23me they are on a
42:24different footing
42:25the methodology
42:26employed in all the
42:28three phases is
42:29different in phase one
42:32for example there was
42:33no logical discrepancy
42:35there was no mapping
42:36which was done so if
42:39at all you need to
42:40deal with the outcome
42:43of phase one and
42:44phase two I would
42:45feel that PCI should
42:47come out with a very
42:48simple uncomplicated
42:50swift procedure to
42:53give an opportunity to
42:54all those who have
42:55been deleted to get
42:56back into the
42:57electoral role in the
42:59case of West
43:00Bengal it stands on a
43:01different footing
43:02altogether because
43:04there you have a
43:05situation where 27.6
43:09lakh people were left
43:11out of the electoral
43:12role because they were
43:14shown under
43:14adjudication yes and
43:17which meant that
43:19prime FSI they
43:20existed in the draft
43:22electoral role because
43:24of some algorithm
43:25called illogical
43:27discrepancy you found
43:29discrepancies and
43:30referred their cases
43:32for adjudication now
43:34as I have been
43:34saying a discrepancy is
43:36not equal to
43:36disqualification so
43:38and the fact that
43:4193 percent of the
43:42cases that have been
43:43adjudicated have been
43:45found to be wrongfully
43:46deleted so West
43:48Bengal stands on a
43:49different footing
43:50altogether if this is
43:52the pace of disposal of
43:54these cases you will
43:55take 12 years is the
43:57election commission I
43:59want the election
44:00commission to state
44:02publicly whether they
44:03are satisfied that for
44:0512 years people's
44:07voting rights should
44:08remain suspended okay my
44:10final question you know
44:12as since you were in the
44:13election hot commission
44:14hot seat yourself the two
44:16election commissioners
44:17reportedly wrote and
44:20stated some of their
44:21objections over the
44:23manner in which the
44:23electoral roles were being
44:25centralized to the
44:26cabinet secretary do you
44:28believe in hindsight if
44:30they felt so strongly they
44:32should have written it to
44:32the president of India why
44:34write it to the cabinet
44:35secretary this is a
44:36constitutional body it's
44:37not bound to the cabinet
44:38secretary of India that's
44:40you know if they are
44:40serious about their
44:42objections they should
44:44have either made them
44:45public much earlier or
44:47written to the president
44:48of India well they could
44:50have written to the
44:51president of India no
44:52doubt they could have
44:53even convened a meeting of
44:55the election commission
44:56formal meeting of the
44:57commission to consider
44:59their point of view so
45:01all those options were
45:02available in fact what
45:03makes the whole thing more
45:05intriguing is this very
45:07fact that why did they
45:09decide to write to the
45:11cabinet secretary they had
45:14the avenue of talking to
45:16the chief election
45:17commissioner even writing to
45:19him if they found that
45:20some improper orders were
45:22being issued so it makes
45:25it further complicated
45:26that they decided to write
45:28to the cabinet secretary
45:37well let's take the big
45:39breaking news coming in in
45:41the iit bombay suicide
45:42swiss controversy now
45:44sahil vakode's parents are
45:46staging a hunger strike
45:48briefly this evening sahil's
45:50parents are once again
45:51demanding professor doula's
45:53arrest additionally they
45:54are demanding a cbi probe
45:56if necessary amidst the
45:57protest iit bombay has
45:59now postponed its mid
46:00semester exam let's go
46:03straight to my next guest
46:04tonight
46:25so as the iit bombay suicide
46:30case continues to divide
46:31opinion i'm joined by a very
46:34special guest the former
46:35chief justice of india justice
46:37br gawai is joining me
46:38appreciate you joining us
46:40justice gawai i want to
46:41understand from you because
46:43this case has divided a lot of
46:44people unfortunately on cast
46:46lines a fire has been filed
46:49under scst atrocities act
46:51because young sahil vakode was
46:53who died tragically was a
46:55dalit do you believe that
46:57this is a fit case for scst
46:58atrocities act or is this a
47:01misuse of scst act that
47:03because the student is a
47:05dalit immediately the case
47:06that is filed is under scst
47:16investigation by the university
47:18agency the court should
47:20refrain from expressing their
47:21opinion to investigation in what
47:24manner or in a particular
47:26manner or not unfortunately this
47:30incident is you know evoking a
47:32lot of tension and i'm really
47:37really perturbed that such
47:38incidents should disturb the
47:42social harmony amongst the
47:45people belonging to different
47:46states no doubt that the i have
47:50always said that and when i have
47:52experienced as a judge as a lawyer
47:54that like many other provisions the
47:56scst atrocities act is also
47:58misused by many wisklains
48:00particularly after the elections of
48:03bram penchayat or visible
48:04consuls or war the losing party
48:07sets up somebody from the
48:08shurukas to file a fire against
48:10the people belonging to the higher
48:12caste and i as a judge of the high
48:14court have on many occasions
48:16caution set aside such
48:18proceedings but in this case since
48:20the fire is already lodged the
48:23matter is being investigated in my
48:25considerate we will not be judicial
48:27propriety to express comments and
48:30either way
48:31so in in your view you know that's
48:35an important point you're making
48:37based on what you're saying would it
48:40have been better for the
48:41investigation to be complete because
48:43there are allegations that the boy
48:44was caught copying cctv footage
48:46seems to suggest that although again
48:50one must wait for the final inquiry do
48:53you believe in cases like this all
48:54sides must be very careful not to jump
48:57to conclusions
48:59i have to see in any matter for that
49:03sake and when prime office one feels
49:06that at least a preliminary inquiry is
49:08required to be done in the matter
49:09the authorities should not
49:12uh accept to the public pressure and
49:16to act either way so this would
49:18amount to you know media trial and
49:21public pressure which we have always
49:23you know uh said that it is not
49:26proper and part of the investigating
49:27agencies to have succumbed to the
49:30pressures of the either on either side
49:33not to register an affair or to register
49:35an affair but does it worry you the
49:37weaponization of caste that is taking
49:39place we are seeing it uh we we are
49:42seeing reactions within upper caste to
49:44the new ugc rules that allow for
49:46committees for uh dalit students uh for
49:49their complaints to be heard upper
49:50castes are objecting to that you are
49:52seeing the way in which this iit case
49:55is playing out does it worry you that
49:56we are now facing a growing caste divide
49:58no no it does absolutely worry because i
50:01have always believed i have i have
50:03always been a positive person i have
50:05always uh held that in the 75 or 77 a
50:09journey after 1977 we have a progress a
50:13lot towards economic and social justice
50:15uh maybe by various uh enactments by the
50:18parliament by the enactment for the
50:20state legislature by the judicial
50:22interpretation and such incidents should
50:24not be permitted you know to disturb the
50:26uh harmony in the society and permit it
50:30to be a virtual divide between you know
50:32the shurukas and the non-shurukas but
50:35but i've had politicians on my show from
50:37the dalit community scst cell activists
50:39who say there is caste discrimination on
50:41our campuses uh do you believe that that
50:45is still that is still a challenge that
50:47young dalit boys and girls face i am not
50:51a politician and therefore as a as a
50:55former judge who has been a disciplined
50:57soldier of judiciary i will refrain from
50:59making such statement but i do believe
51:01that uh in the last 77 years the society
51:04has progressed and uh at least uh uh what
51:09is being projected that there is still
51:11and have complete untouchability which
51:14was prevalent as 1950 would be to say
51:17something which is not according to me
51:19a general reality so i know it's
51:20it's very hard hard to say so it will not
51:23be right uh easily digested by the
51:27political class and those who want to
51:29you know uh run with the wave yes but
51:33this statement that even after 77 years
51:38of the indian constitution these
51:39are a complete answer that way i have not
51:42i have not heard that statement but
51:44you know because there's a sense that
51:46radical ambitkarism is also a reality
51:48there is a radicalization among the
51:50young as well among young dalits who
51:52believe that they are uh being left out
51:54even now of the system so i'll ask you
51:55what would your advice be given the
51:58sensitivities that have uh been shown up
52:01in this sahil vakhode matter what would
52:03your advice be as now a senior statesman
52:06i'm not just going to call you a judge
52:07but as someone as a senior jurist what
52:10would your advice be as a responsible
52:13citizen of this country yes i would
52:16appeal to everyone that let us have
52:18complete faith in the constitutional
52:20scheme let us go by the constitutional
52:23values and not be swiped up by the
52:26motions on either side so you're saying
52:29let the inquiry be complete let the
52:31inquiry come out let the police
52:33investigate and then come to any
52:36conclusions otherwise you are it becomes
52:39a media trial if you go by what comes
52:43in the newspapers what is public sentiment
52:45then it is nothing else than a media trial
52:47and i myself in the last year have seen
52:51what certain victims if you recollect
52:55that nithari border case yes in noida yes
53:00that poor poor laborer had to suffer for
53:03more than 30 years was incarcerated there was no evidence and nobody dared to
53:08equity merely because it was a media trial
53:11so if professor dhula is innocent is he owed an apology if it turns out that the professor was
53:17innocent and did not pass any casteist remarks but is today he's been suspended he's been
53:23he's on he's been taken off and and sent on leave do you believe that he will be owed an
53:28apology as well i would refrain from making the call any comment but i would still hold that
53:34any action or inaction only on the basis of public sentiments would be inappropriate you know what is
53:41you don't want to see that's a very no action on the basis of public sentiment alone justice gavai for
53:48joining me on the show tonight thank you very much
53:53okay that's all that we could pack in i'm afraid uh today and i apologize if there was a little
53:59bit
53:59extra noise in the studio uh we will try and ensure that we keep the program within the
54:06slogan news without the noise leave you with our image tonight u.s president donald trump and chinese
54:12president xi jinping holding a bilateral meeting in washington uh when trump welcomed xi at joint
54:18base andrews b1 bombers roared overhead during the u.s national anthem trump was seen briefly wincing
54:25at the deafening sound jie jinping appeared largely unfazed take a look china and the u.s that one image
54:32captures perhaps the changing world order thanks for watching you stay well stay safe good night
54:38shubratri jain namaskar