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00:00I wouldn't say like, oh, because you're getting paid more than you do everything last.
00:03It depends on who you ask.
00:04If you ask HR, they'll say no.
00:06But honestly, as an employee, I don't see any harm to it.
00:11And the manager just tanya, are you here to work or are you here for the money?
00:15For the money, obviously.
00:17Obviously, right?
00:18Obviously, I'm working for money.
00:19That's a funny question.
00:21Again, if you have a good manager, a good job, if you think it's worth fighting for,
00:24then you can stay and try.
00:30What's up, guys?
00:31Welcome back to another episode of The Money Goal.
00:33Today, I have Aisha with me again.
00:35What's up, Aisha?
00:36Hello, hello.
00:37How have you been?
00:38Good.
00:39Okay.
00:40Okay.
00:41So this week, I just wanted to talk about a story that my friend shared with me last week.
00:46I went out with her.
00:49And okay, so the thing is, she has been working in this one company
00:56since she finished her internship.
00:59So she continued.
01:01It's a long time then.
01:02Yes.
01:02She loves it that the benefits, all she said is great.
01:05But she realizes that in her department particularly, people come and go.
01:13So there's a lot of new, younger people coming into the office.
01:17I feel like these days, it's quite common.
01:20I guess.
01:20I wouldn't know.
01:22Yeah.
01:22So they were talking, talking this one time with her colleague.
01:26She was in the office for like two months.
01:30She just joined two months ago.
01:34So we were talking, talking.
01:35And then suddenly she slipped that she had, she's going on a holiday.
01:41And she said she can't afford that holiday because, oh, the company is paying me good.
01:47I'm getting like $6,000 a month.
01:49Okay.
01:50And she's like, huh?
01:52Because my friend, who I will not name, she said that for the past seven years that she's
01:59worked there, her gaji now is only $4,500.
02:03Oh, after seven years.
02:04Okay.
02:05Yeah.
02:05Okay.
02:06So she's kind of like, because she's the senior, she's training this girl.
02:11So the same, like, same position?
02:13Same position.
02:14Yeah.
02:15Same position, same level.
02:17It's just that she is earning $6,000 and she's earning $4,500.
02:23But of course, it's not her fault, right?
02:24Yeah.
02:25She told me.
02:26It's not her fault.
02:26It's not the new person's fault.
02:28Yeah.
02:28It's not the new person's fault.
02:30But she can't help but feel like, you know, kind of like a resentment.
02:34So she started...
02:35A little jealousy, right?
02:37For sure.
02:37A little jealous.
02:38And also, she's wondering, like, why hasn't her company offered her more?
02:44Yeah.
02:44Or, you know, a higher position to kind of like, you know, increase her salary.
02:48Yeah.
02:49So, yeah.
02:51So, at first when she was, when the new girl came in, they usually go to lunch with each
02:58other, go to lunch together, or if she needed help, she will ask her, and she will, you
03:03know, ask her juga.
03:04Yeah.
03:05But now they just kind of, she kind of slowly stopped talking to her.
03:09As your friend lah.
03:09Yeah.
03:10Because she feels kind of...
03:12Okay.
03:13She feels like she is being treated unfairly by the company.
03:17Yeah.
03:17So, she doesn't know how to navigate.
03:20How to approach it, right?
03:20Or how to approach the situation.
03:22Does she say it to her boss?
03:24Yeah.
03:24Or does she quit?
03:25It's like...
03:26I think this one is interesting.
03:27I think traditionally, talking about salary is a bit taboo, right?
03:32Yeah.
03:32In Indonesia, it's a bit taboo.
03:33And I know, like, HR will say, oh, it's because of these reasons.
03:35We don't want people to be demotivated and stuff.
03:38But I don't know.
03:39What do you think about this?
03:40Honestly, for me, okay.
03:41It's like, if your employee is demotivated, like your friend now is demotivated because
03:45you found out someone else is making more, I mean, it's not the fault of people sharing
03:50salary.
03:50It's the company's fault lah for basically not paying her as much, right?
03:53So, for me and my friends, actually, we talk about salary quite a lot.
03:56So, we are quite open about it.
03:58We share with each other.
04:00Your friends who work with you in your same company or just your friend?
04:04Okay.
04:04So, back in when I was working still in a corporate job, right?
04:08Yeah.
04:08So, it would be my colleagues that I would just share with.
04:11Really?
04:11Yeah, yeah, yeah.
04:12So, we would.
04:13Okay, like, we had a group of us lah.
04:14Not like, I would go around, like, guys, my salary is 5,000 and I, yeah.
04:18No, I wouldn't.
04:19But then, like, friends lah.
04:20Friends, like, colleagues, I would share.
04:23And then, even after we left, I said, I was still friends with some of them and we
04:27would still talk about our salary.
04:29So, the reason we do this is that we at least know what the market is like.
04:33So, we all work in similar-ish kind of roles lah, you know, in tech companies and stuff.
04:39And I think it's good.
04:40Because at least, like, if right now I'm earning, let's say, 5,000 and I know that my friends
04:44in similar positions, similar roles in other companies earning 7,000, then we're like,
04:48hey, there are better opportunities out there maybe.
04:50So, I think it's good.
04:51I don't know.
04:52What do you think?
04:53For me, right now, we don't really discuss how much we earn.
05:01But we know the range of, like, okay, like, if there's seven of us, we know the range.
05:08Agak-agak lah.
05:09Agak-agak lah.
05:10Myself.
05:10Okay, okay.
05:11So, basically, we all earn between 3 to 7 or whatever.
05:15But it's not the range lah.
05:17What if a colleague asks you, though?
05:19Like, hey, I want to ask my boss for a raise.
05:21How much are you earning?
05:23I would just tell, yeah.
05:24You would just tell, right?
05:25Yeah, I would just tell.
05:26I would just tell and check out.
05:27Oh, you can ask for, I don't know, 10.
05:29Yeah, yeah, yeah.
05:29I feel so, yeah.
05:30Yeah.
05:31I don't really care, people, knowing how much I earn.
05:34Yeah.
05:35But I feel like for some people also, kalau they work here for, like, 5 years, 6 years
05:42and they're still, um, apa, dapat gaji rendah, kan?
05:46I feel like it's a bit, malu pun ada, no?
05:49Yeah.
05:50It's like a bit, yeah, I feel like they malu to share because, oh, I've been here and you're
05:54younger, you're new, but you're earning more.
05:56I feel that's kind of, like, a feeling juga.
06:00I think it happens a lot.
06:01So, I think back in the days, like, our parents' days, or maybe people like one generation
06:06of lovers, uh, some of them are actually, like, one company man, right?
06:11As in, they work in one company for their whole career because, yeah, because the company
06:15treats them well, they get promoted, promoted, increment, they are grateful for everything
06:18and they stay there.
06:19But I think these days, it doesn't really happen.
06:21Um, just because I feel like, lah, it's easier to get a salary bump when you change companies,
06:28right?
06:28So, this goes back to the story of your friend, right?
06:30They're doing the same roles, but one person's earning higher.
06:32I really believe it's because your friend has been there, like, basically since her start.
06:36Yeah.
06:37And this new person just came from another company.
06:39So, if the company wants to hire this new girl or guy or whoever it is, right, they will
06:44have to give an increment, lah, to get her in, right?
06:46Otherwise, she won't join.
06:47Yeah.
06:47So, I think companies and HR do tend to act like that.
06:51If my current employees seem like they're content, seem like they're happy, then what's
06:56the point of me paying them more?
06:57Just leave it at that.
06:57Oh.
06:58Yeah.
06:59So, basically, kalau macam, like, the year's ending, like, right now, we're in, like, September,
07:06October, now.
07:07Yeah.
07:08You can actually have that conversation with your HR, with your manager about one thing
07:13and in salary bump, is it?
07:15Yeah, I would, for sure.
07:16I used to do that every year.
07:17Okay, so, I had a very short corporate career, lah.
07:19I was working for five years.
07:21Five or six years.
07:22And, okay, so, I guess this goes back to how your friend can navigate it, right?
07:26I actually will bring it up.
07:28Really?
07:28Okay, so, okay, one of my...
07:29Tell us a way.
07:30One of my mantras, right, when I was working was that I wanted to make sure my boss was
07:34always uncomfortable.
07:36Uncomfortable not in the sense that am I doing my work or not, but uncomfortable in the sense
07:39that, oh my god, is he going to leave or is he going to stay, right?
07:41Oh.
07:42Okay, so, I don't want to show that I'm so content being here because, again,
07:46if you seem happy, they won't really push for an increment or promotion or stuff, right?
07:52They would rather use the budget elsewhere.
07:54If I have two employees under me now, one is happy, one is threatening to quit, obviously,
07:58I tell HR, I need to give this person because she's going to quit, right?
08:01So, that's one thing I used to do and I used to go for interviews at least once a year
08:06as well just to see what's out there and just to see what other companies are offering.
08:10So, if I'm earning...
08:11Okay, this is what happened in my first company.
08:12I was earning, I think, like $5,005, $5,008.
08:16I did an interview and then the company was saying, okay, $7,005.
08:19So, I know, oh, that's a big jump from where I was.
08:22Then, I decided to go.
08:24So, those are things I do.
08:28It's the unfortunate truth.
08:29I know some people really enjoy their job, their career, their current company but if
08:34you stay and then they, you know, mistreat you in the sense that they don't give you
08:38big jumps, that's a choice that you have to make whether you're willing to sort of
08:43sacrifice this because there will be newer people who come in and then get paid more
08:47than you, for sure.
08:48I mean, some ways that you can maybe convince your manager or your HR to increase your salary
08:53is, you know, keeping track of what have you contributed to the company, like job
08:58achievements and, yeah.
09:01Yeah.
09:01It's one way, I feel like.
09:03That's a good...
09:03That's one you should definitely do.
09:05You're keeping the receipts.
09:06I have the receipts of what I did.
09:08Yeah, this is how much I've done this year.
09:10Assuming you actually did well.
09:13And also, yeah, I feel like demotivation is one thing because if you know that someone
09:18who is new, younger, masuk the company, well, you're there.
09:22You feel like you don't want to do your work anymore.
09:25Like, why am I giving you everything when I'm being paid this much?
09:30And then you will feel like, oh, this girl can do the job because she's being paid more,
09:35right?
09:36You will have that kind of mentality or fikiran, like, she's being paid more.
09:43Yeah, so you have that resentment.
09:44What am I doing so much?
09:45Okay, but one thing I wouldn't do is I wouldn't throw the other person under the bus.
09:48I wouldn't say like, oh, because you're getting paid more than you do everything.
09:52So, again, it's not her fault, right?
09:54They're paying her $6,000 or whatever it is.
09:55So, I wouldn't do that.
09:57In the end.
09:58I wouldn't bring it up to my boss like, hey, why are you paying this person $6,000, right?
10:01But I would definitely bring it up as in like, hey, in a very subtle way.
10:06I always do this, very subtle.
10:07Hey, you know, I have friends working in similar positions as me, doing similar things in other
10:11companies and they're getting paid more.
10:12So, honestly, if this company can't do that for me, then I might have to look elsewhere.
10:19So, you just like say, oh, I have friends, you know, I do salary benchmarking and I'm getting
10:23underpaid.
10:23Yeah, I would do those things.
10:25So, do you think, you know, discussing your salaries with your colleague is something
10:28that is good to do in the office or will that just lead to, you know, more like jealousy?
10:34It depends on who you ask.
10:36If you ask HR, they'll say no.
10:37But honestly, honestly, as an employee, I don't see any harm to it.
10:42Okay, even if like your friend, she's on the worst end of this, right?
10:46Yeah.
10:46Basically.
10:46But at least, okay, but at least now she knows that she's getting underpaid.
10:49Right?
10:50Right.
10:50If the new person didn't tell her she was earning 6,000, she might have just been happily
10:54working.
10:55Yeah.
10:55So, oh, everyone's earning about the same as me or maybe even less than me.
10:58So, it's fine.
10:58Yeah.
10:58But at least now the resentment from a personal standpoint gives her that fire of, I need
11:05to ask my boss for more.
11:06Otherwise, I need to look elsewhere.
11:08Yeah.
11:08Otherwise, I just live.
11:09In that sense, from an individual perspective, I think really it is a good thing.
11:14It's how you control how you act towards after finding out, oh, they're earning like 2,000
11:20more than me.
11:21Yeah, exactly, exactly.
11:23So, like I said, you don't want to throw them under the bus, but you want to use it as motivation
11:26for yourself.
11:27I used to be, okay, I don't know if I would recommend people doing this, but I was, when
11:32I was younger, in my first job, I was in a management trainee program and I was super
11:36cocky at the time.
11:37Okay, I was doing quite a lot.
11:38Okay, don't do that.
11:39Don't be cocky.
11:40I was doing quite a lot for a fresh grad associate at the time.
11:43Yeah.
11:44So, I was doing a lot, yeah, for an associate.
11:46So, I told HR, I'm a manager, I'm looking for a promotion because I did XXXXX.
11:52So, like you said, I kept track of everything that I did, right?
11:55So, I'm looking for a promotion because I did this throughout the last year.
11:59If you think I deserve it, then I think you should promote me, like, now.
12:03If you don't think I deserve it, if you think that there are other associates in this
12:07company that have outperformed me this year, I will accept that, but I need you to tell
12:11me.
12:12Are there, is there anyone else in this company that's doing more than me now as an associate?
12:16I don't mind.
12:16I don't mind if they say, oh, I don't think you did well enough because there are so many
12:19other people that are doing better.
12:20I don't mind.
12:21But I want you to tell me, and they couldn't tell me.
12:23So, they said, okay, I'll just give you the promotion, then.
12:25Right.
12:26But I feel like there is one way or so to go about the situation.
12:31Okay, if you feel like I don't deserve to get a salary bump, why don't you tell me
12:39how I can improve and contribute more to this company so that maybe next year you'll see,
12:44oh, okay, she deserves, you know, the $12,000 a month.
12:47Actually, that's a very good point.
12:48I tell that to my friends a lot because once they tell you what you need to do, you can
12:53hit it and then you say, okay, now what?
12:54Now what?
12:55Exactly.
12:55Why am I not still not getting this?
12:57Because if there is no list of things for you to do, then your manager can every year
13:00be like, you know, you're not there yet.
13:02You're not there yet.
13:03You're not there yet.
13:03They can just keep saying that.
13:04That's why you need to be like, okay, tell me exactly what I need to do then.
13:06Tell me exactly, yeah.
13:08Tell me, show me what I have to do, what I can do to prove to you that I'm worth investing
13:15in.
13:15Exactly.
13:16Exactly.
13:16Yeah, that's a very good point.
13:17That's a very good point.
13:18Okay.
13:19Oh, that's helpful.
13:20But it's just that whenever you found out, you just don't react towards the person.
13:26It's not their fault.
13:26Yeah, exactly.
13:27And also communicate lah, basically.
13:30Yeah.
13:30Yeah.
13:31And obviously what you don't want is, your boss then is like, okay lah, then I'll reduce
13:34your salary to match yours.
13:36I've seen on social media.
13:38Really?
13:39There's a few macam, no, I've seen another one that they openly told their manager that
13:45they want a salary raise.
13:48And the manager just tanya, are you here to work or are you here for the money?
13:51For the money, obviously.
13:53Obviously, right?
13:55I mean, it's for charity.
13:56Why do I want to, why do I want to do work?
13:59Exactly.
14:00Exactly.
14:01Exactly.
14:01Of course, I'm working for money.
14:02That's a funny question.
14:04Yeah, exactly.
14:05Okay.
14:06So, we have some questions.
14:07Okay.
14:08Some stories submitted by our viewers.
14:10Okay.
14:10Oh, this is literally, this is literally, this is literally what my friend went through.
14:16Is this your friend?
14:17She submitted a question.
14:18Maybe.
14:18Just to make sure that this one, that turns out.
14:20Okay.
14:20Okay.
14:20I'll tell you the story.
14:21Okay.
14:21Okay.
14:21Okay.
14:22Okay.
14:22Okay.
14:22The junior who out-earned me.
14:24So, okay.
14:25So, I'll never forget the day I found out a fresh grad, a fresh grad, barely six months
14:30in the company, was earning more than me, even though I had been grinding here for two
14:34years.
14:35I felt humiliated.
14:37It wasn't just about the money.
14:39It was the thought that my effort didn't matter.
14:41For weeks, I was bitter and unmotivated.
14:43But then, instead of sulking, I decided to fight back.
14:45I took online courses, attended workshops, and made sure my boss noticed the value I brought
14:50in.
14:51Within a year, I didn't just catch up.
14:53I earned a promotion that put me ahead.
14:55So, the question is, if you found out a colleague earned more, what upskilling or financial
15:01step would you take to boost your own value?
15:04Ooh.
15:05I guess upskilling lah.
15:05Let's not talk about financial steps because this is not your problem.
15:08This is a company's problem.
15:09They need to sort it out for you.
15:11Yeah.
15:11But I wouldn't go and blindly learn anything lah, right?
15:14So, if let's say I was in marketing, I wouldn't like see this happen and then decide, you
15:19know what, I'm going to learn how to like, you know, program.
15:21I want to be a developer now to earn more money.
15:23Yeah.
15:23I think it doesn't make sense.
15:24I think you need to do what will help your career right now lah.
15:29So, and this depends on you, right?
15:31It can be an online course.
15:32It can be something completely different.
15:34You know, a lot of companies also have like upskilling programs where they will pay for
15:37you.
15:38Yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:38To do all these things.
15:39So, that's one thing to consider.
15:40But again, I would talk to my boss first.
15:42Talk to you.
15:43Right?
15:43Ask them, what do I need to do to get a promotion?
15:45If they think, oh, I don't think you have this skill yet.
15:47Ask them, what skill do I need?
15:48How can I get there?
15:49At the end of the day, our bosses, I think people need to remember that they are our managers
15:53and it's their job to manage you.
15:56To basically help you with your growth and stuff like that.
15:58Yes.
15:58Yeah, so I would bring it up.
15:59So, if they're not doing a good job?
16:01Then they're not a good manager.
16:02Then you just should leave.
16:03I would leave.
16:04No debt.
16:04I don't know if I've said this before on this podcast, but I think that a good manager
16:08at a bad company is better than a bad manager at a good company.
16:11I think your manager is extremely important, especially as a fresh grab.
16:15Yeah.
16:16Okay.
16:16Especially early on in your career.
16:17Next story.
16:19Okay.
16:19Let's get to it.
16:20The silent salary gap.
16:22Okay.
16:23During a team lunch, the truth slipped out.
16:26My colleague, who joined only last year, casually mentioned their salary package.
16:31My jaw dropped when I realized they were making almost RM1,000 more than me.
16:36The worst part was that I was the one training the person.
16:40That night, I went home frustrated.
16:42I kept asking myself, am I undervaluing myself or is my company underpaying me?
16:49Instead of quitting immediately, I started tracking my achievement, built a portfolio of
16:54my work and even updated my resume.
16:56By the time I walked into my boss's office, I had receipts to back me up.
17:00A few weeks later, I walked out with a raise.
17:03So, the question is, what's the smartest move when you discover you're underpaid?
17:08Jump ship to a new company or invest in skills that make you worth more?
17:12Ooh.
17:12You are.
17:13I think this one depends on a lot of factors, right?
17:15Again, if you have a good manager, a good job, if you think it's worth fighting for,
17:18then you can stay and try.
17:21But, I think you need to be realistic and think about whether your company can give you
17:26the raise in promotion that you want or so lah.
17:29Because I think when we're talking 20-30% increment, not many companies can give you
17:33that.
17:34If you stay.
17:35If you stay.
17:36And then, this will also depend on your industry.
17:37If your industry is doing well, or like shipping companies during COVID.
17:40Shipping, yep.
17:41During COVID, they were doing so well, yeah.
17:42If you're in that company, you know that there is a very big chance that you will get
17:46a good increment, right?
17:48Okay.
17:48Because the company is doing well.
17:49So, you have to, like, take out the situation also lah.
17:51Exactly.
17:51The situation for your company.
17:53Exactly, exactly.
17:54You know when, like, Facebook and all, they were making so much money, they don't care.
17:57They were just, well, you want 20%?
17:59They hire so many people.
18:01AI companies these days, they're going so much, right?
18:03Yeah.
18:03I don't care.
18:03You want 20-30%, take it.
18:04But, if you're in a company or in an industry that's not doing so well, then, of course,
18:09they're going to be a lot stricter on budget lah.
18:11Any promotion will need to be justified, like, 10,000 times by the CEO and stuff like that.
18:18So, you need to consider that as well.
18:19How have you changed the world?
18:21Exactly, exactly, yeah.
18:22So, that's actually one of the reasons why I left my first job to go to my second job.
18:26Just because of industry.
18:28I told HR during my exit interview, like, honestly speaking, it's not you, it's the industry that you're in.
18:34It's just not a growing industry.
18:36And I know that you guys cannot give me what I need.
18:38And they were just like, okay lah, nothing I can say about that.
18:40Yeah, so it depends on your situation.
18:43Yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:44But, I would say, don't be afraid to jump company lah.
18:47Most of the time, the best way is to jump company.
18:51Most of the time, the best way is to say it.
18:52Exactly.
18:53Especially if your situation now is not even that good, you don't have a good boss and all, then...
18:57Say bye-bye.
18:58Don't have the sentimental attachment lah, just go if you need to.
19:00Yeah, that's good.
19:02Thank you so much for sharing.
19:03Yeah, no problem.
19:04Is that all?
19:04Yeah.
19:05For the questions?
19:05Okay.
19:06So, I guess to wrap this all up.
19:07Yeah.
19:09If you find out that your newer colleague is earning more than you, first of all...
19:13Calm down.
19:13Yeah.
19:14It's very normal to be jealous, you know.
19:15It's very normal to feel a bit of resentment.
19:18But don't let it out on them lah, right?
19:19It's not their fault.
19:21So, keep your receipts, track everything that you've done, go speak to your boss.
19:26I think that's the first thing.
19:27Don't be afraid to jump.
19:28And then also, I think the final thing is also reflect on yourself lah, right?
19:32Just because someone is younger than you, work less years than you, doesn't mean that
19:35you should earn more...
19:37You're not great.
19:37Yeah.
19:37You're great.
19:38Exactly, yeah.
19:39But you need to also think about, you know, maybe they are better than me.
19:41Even though they're younger, maybe they are, you know, more skilled than me.
19:44So, you can also upskill yourself lah, right?
19:46At the end of the day, we cannot just blame everyone else.
19:49And then we are perfect.
19:50We are perfect.
19:51Yeah.
19:51So, you need to look at yourself as well lah.
19:53I think that's the final thing.
19:54Cool?
19:55Yep.
19:55Alright.
19:56Share this with your friend, Aisha.
19:57Hopefully, she gets the bump that she needs.
19:59Yeah.
19:59So, she's watching.
20:02Alright.
20:02Nice talking to you, Aisha, again.
20:04Hope you guys like this episode.
20:05See you in the next one.
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