- 6 weeks ago
Is job hopping bad for your resume, or is it actually normal in today’s job market? Many people say leaving a company too soon shows disloyalty... but do employers still expect you to stay at least two years?
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00:00I didn't like them. Like, I didn't like them, it's just that I needed a job.
00:03And then when they get certain jobs, they're like, oh, this job's not good enough for me.
00:06And then, you know, they just reject it and then continue searching for new jobs.
00:10Because like, yeah, the salary works for you.
00:14People do tend to stay at their jobs for a very, very long time.
00:16Yeah.
00:17Like, even from fresh grab all the way to CEO.
00:26What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of The Money Goal.
00:29Today, I have Yasmin with me again. Hello, Yasmin.
00:32Hello, hello.
00:33All right. What are we talking about today?
00:35Okay, so we're talking about job hopping.
00:38Okay.
00:38So some people believe that if you job hop, you can essentially work your way towards, like, a bigger paycheck every single time.
00:46Compared to staying at one job.
00:48Yeah, correct.
00:49Okay.
00:49Is that something you believe in?
00:51Yes.
00:52Oh, okay.
00:53I think, yeah, it's based on personal experience, but yes.
00:56Okay, so just for some context.
01:01I did the job hopping.
01:04I mean, I graduated from uni, like, literally just before the pandemic.
01:08So I was kind of, like, in a really rough spot, I suppose, when it came to looking for a job.
01:17And beggars can be choosers, right?
01:20So I kind of, like, took whatever I could get.
01:23And it meant that, like, I didn't stay for long in every single job.
01:28I guess my job hopping wasn't necessarily motivated by the money.
01:33But I did find that, like, my pay increased.
01:36So I job hopped three times.
01:38And then, I mean, now working in Astro, this is my longest held job.
01:45And I've been here for, like, four years.
01:47But prior to that, I had three other jobs.
01:49Okay.
01:50And I never lasted for, like, more than a year.
01:52Okay.
01:53Well, this is a big change then.
01:55Yeah, this is a huge change.
01:56But it's true that every time I hopped, my pay would increase.
02:02Even when you were at the company for a short period of time.
02:05Yeah.
02:05The next job, they just gave you another raise.
02:07Yeah.
02:07Okay, that's good then.
02:08But it wasn't, like, a big increase.
02:10Like, it wasn't, like, you know, a thousand ringgit or whatever.
02:13No, just, like, hundreds-ish.
02:16Okay.
02:17Yeah.
02:18So what do you think about that?
02:19Okay, so the reason I think job hopping is good is exactly for what you said.
02:25I think the unfortunate truth is a lot of companies will not justify a big internal increment.
02:34As in giving a big raise to someone who is already at the company.
02:38My hypothesis is that if I do that, if I give someone who is currently here a big raise,
02:44a lot of people will want it as well.
02:46As in teammates and stuff, right?
02:48Whereas if I hire someone from outside and give them a high salary, I can just justify
02:52it by, oh, it's because this person has this experience, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
02:55Yeah.
02:56And, I mean, this is the experience I got.
03:00Okay, I've only dropped top once.
03:01I've only had two jobs.
03:02Oh, okay.
03:02I've only had two jobs and then I left the corporate world completely.
03:05Right, right.
03:05Yeah, but so in my first job, I got a promotion, two promotions back to back.
03:11So my first year promotion, second year promotion as well.
03:14And I think I did quite well.
03:16So they said I was like exceeding expectations and stuff, which is why they gave me the promotions.
03:20But each promotion was only about, I think one was 20% and one was 18%.
03:25Which is good for the companies and it's pretty good.
03:29But when I changed jobs, I got a 30% jump, which was a lot easier to, I mean, it was a
03:36lot easier for me to get that than persuading.
03:39I really had to fight for my promotions.
03:40I really had to brought up to HR, CHRO and stuff like that to get those approvals.
03:47Whereas, you know, if you go to a new company, 30% is just like, okay, done.
03:50They'll give you 30%.
03:50I think it's the same as you, right?
03:51Like I said, you didn't really have to fight for it to just say, okay, you know, we'll
03:54just give you more because you're coming to us.
03:57But I know that there are companies who will reward people who do well internally.
04:02And I think if you are in that company and if you do see growth, then by all means, go
04:07for it.
04:07I think one of the reasons I also decided to hop jobs was that I didn't know where I was
04:12going to go from there at a certain stage.
04:14Yeah.
04:15Yeah.
04:15And I think it's especially true if you start off at a company very low.
04:19So if you start off on RM3,000, let's say.
04:22You get one promotion, 20%.
04:23So you're on RM3,600.
04:25You get another promotion, 20% again.
04:27So you're on like RM4,300, right?
04:29The thing is how many 20% you have to get to actually reach, like let's say 10K salary,
04:34right?
04:34You have to get so many 20% increments.
04:37And how many promotions can you get, right?
04:39There's a limit to how many promotions you can get.
04:41So I feel like if you start low at a company and they're not willing to give you 50%, 100%
04:47increments, it is so hard for you to climb.
04:49To climb, exactly.
04:51Whereas you can make a lateral move into another job and get 30%.
04:54Yeah.
04:54Yeah.
04:55But I think while I was job hopping, I mean, like I wasn't conscious about job hopping.
05:00I wasn't like purposely wanting to job hop, but it was kind of like brought to my attention
05:05that I was job hopping and like leapfrogging.
05:08Yeah.
05:09Because a lot of my older folks were like, oh my God, you're so not loyal to the company
05:14that you're working for, right?
05:16And I think that, I mean, I also realized that every new interview that I had, there
05:21was always this question of like, why did you leave the last company, right?
05:25Yeah.
05:25Um, and I later figured out that, um, it wasn't something that was, um, I guess, well looked
05:37upon.
05:37Um, it's something that reflects actually quite negatively on you.
05:42Yep.
05:42So like in that case, like, where do you like stop?
05:47Yeah.
05:47I mean, I, I've heard that before.
05:49Yeah.
05:49So I think back in the days, um, people do tend to stay at their jobs for a very, very
05:54long time.
05:54Yeah.
05:55Like even from fresh scrap all the way to CEO, some people do that 40 years there.
05:58Right.
05:59Um, I think one times have changed a bit.
06:01Yeah.
06:02That's one.
06:02Um, and I've also heard this, you know, it doesn't look good on your CV and stuff, but
06:08I also have other friends and now I know you where they say it doesn't look good
06:12in your CV, but you've gotten multiple jobs.
06:14So, uh, I mean, what was the deal, right?
06:16Okay.
06:16But honestly speaking, my plan at least before I left the corporate world was that I was
06:20going to give it at least two years each.
06:22So I was going to do at least two, uh, maybe three years at each company just because I
06:26wanted to actually develop some skills and actually build something in the company that
06:32I'm at before I job hop.
06:33Right.
06:33So I don't want to just keep changing jobs just for the sake of money.
06:37Right.
06:37I don't want to be like, every six months I go just because I want another raise.
06:40Right.
06:40But I wanted to actually make an impact at the company that I was, which is why I think
06:45two to three years is a good number where I don't think people will really question
06:51you if you leave after two years.
06:53If they do, then I don't know.
06:55Yeah.
06:55No, I don't consider job hopping.
06:57I mean, like I was, when I was job hopping, like I'm talking about like, um, three months,
07:01six months.
07:02Yeah.
07:02I had a job for like three months.
07:04Okay.
07:04Okay.
07:04Okay.
07:04Yeah.
07:05You know, that kind of thing.
07:06Yeah.
07:06It really never lasted like a year.
07:08Okay.
07:09Before that.
07:09Um, but like, um, just like, I guess like in the same vein, but like conversely, I guess,
07:18um, staying put at a job is also not like a bad thing.
07:22Yeah.
07:22Um, you know, it obviously gives you like, you know, some stability.
07:28Yeah.
07:28Um, but it might be also difficult, I suppose, like if you see people around you job hopping,
07:33because like sometimes, I mean, the reason why I job hopped was because, okay, I had, you
07:38know, aunties and uncles telling me like, Hey, you, you know, you got to stay put.
07:41Like, you know, it's not looking good that you're not loyal to like your company, at least
07:44for like a couple of years.
07:45Yeah.
07:46Um, but on the other hand, like I had a bunch of people being like, well, you're young.
07:49So like, now's your time to like.
07:52Figure it out.
07:52Explore.
07:53Yeah.
07:53Go figure out what is it that you like?
07:55Yep.
07:55What is it, you know, that works for you?
07:57What kind of, um, work environment you like?
08:00Um, so like I had that to, to juggle.
08:04So I guess that's why I job hopped.
08:06It was because like, I just, it was a really trying time because obviously it was COVID as
08:11well.
08:11And like, obviously we, I mean, graduates around that time.
08:16So 2019, 2020, and also 2021, I would argue, um, you, it was, it was harder, I guess, to.
08:23To be picky, I suppose, and to actually find something that you're passionate about.
08:43If you're actually passionate about a particular job position, it's quite difficult to get it
08:49because like, you know, hiring freeze and like, there was just so much going on during
08:54that time.
08:55So that's the reason why I, I listened to the people who encouraged me to job hop because
09:00like, I knew that the first, you know, couple of jobs that I, I eventually took on, I didn't
09:08like them.
09:09Like, I didn't like them.
09:10It's just that I needed a job.
09:12So I just took it.
09:14And when something better, you know, came my way, then I just hopped to that next one.
09:22So like, I had that sort of like the grass is greener on the other side kind of mentality.
09:26And now I've settled.
09:27That's good.
09:28I mean, I think what you did was fine.
09:29I have friends who, they don't have a job.
09:34They can't get jobs.
09:35I mean, and then when they get certain jobs, they're like, oh, this job's not good enough
09:38for me.
09:39And then, you know, they just reject it and then continue setting for new jobs.
09:42I think that's a wrong move to make because if you're unemployed for too long, it's going
09:45to be really hard for you to come back.
09:47Yeah.
09:47At least like you, if you already have a job in hand, you're already, you're already
09:50employed.
09:51Yeah.
09:51Yeah.
09:51Maybe it sucks.
09:52Maybe it's not for you, but it makes it a lot easier for you to then find your next
09:55job.
09:56Yeah.
09:56Yeah.
09:56Yeah.
09:57Yeah.
09:57Yeah.
09:57For sure.
09:59Yeah.
10:00I guess like in the couple of years that like we've been working, right.
10:05I guess we were like around the same age.
10:06I think we've also learned to make smarter career moves.
10:11Like when you're first, you know, when you just graduated and you're fresh out of university,
10:16like, yeah, it's true.
10:18You don't know what, you know.
10:19Not at all.
10:20Yeah.
10:20You don't know what you like.
10:21You don't know what works for you.
10:22You don't know what kind of work environment you like.
10:24What kind of like, do you like, do you like teamwork?
10:27Do you like working independently?
10:29Yeah.
10:29Do you like working in an office?
10:30Do you like working from home?
10:31Which is something that was new, that was introduced to us during COVID.
10:35Yeah.
10:36And also, I think it's really awkward as well that first couple of times you apply for
10:40a job and they ask you like, what's your expected pay?
10:42It's like, how do you value yourself?
10:44Yeah.
10:44Exactly.
10:45Exactly.
10:45Yeah.
10:46Because, you know, am I putting too high?
10:49Like, is that, you know, egotistical of me or am I not valuing myself enough?
10:53Am I putting it too low?
10:54Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:57So, yeah.
10:59And I think that's just like, in general, not just salary to consider.
11:03That's just like other compensation.
11:05So, the kind of benefits that you're getting.
11:10Yeah.
11:11There's so much to consider.
11:13And like, for me, I don't know about you when you were working in corporate, but like
11:17for me, what I felt was like the most important part of like my job wasn't actually the salary.
11:25It was the work environment.
11:26Yeah.
11:27And like some people, I mean, obviously, if you have a family, like if you're married
11:32with like children, then like your priorities would be different.
11:34Yeah.
11:34It would only be salary.
11:35Then you just, if you have a terrible work environment, then you maybe.
11:39You got to suck it up.
11:40Yeah.
11:40You got to suck it up because like.
11:42Unfortunate.
11:43Yeah.
11:43The salary works for you.
11:45And the reason why you'd be job hopping maybe is because of the salary.
11:48But for me, like the reason why I job hopped was because of work environment specifically.
11:53Yeah.
11:53So.
11:54I was the same.
11:54I think for a lot of young people, I would recommend if you don't need to support, let's
12:00say your parents and stuff like that, focus on growth.
12:02So, I was playing the long game, right?
12:03I was thinking about what could, I mean, I still want a high salary, but I was like, what
12:06could get me to a high salary later on in life?
12:09Yeah.
12:10And I think chasing the highest salary now might not be the best part for you.
12:13You might be stuck.
12:14Right.
12:15You can work in customer support, do OT and get 6,000 ringgit a month right off the
12:19gate.
12:19And that sounds like really nice, right?
12:21Yeah.
12:21As someone who's 23.
12:22But where do you go from there?
12:23I think that's the thing.
12:24Yeah.
12:24Yeah.
12:25Absolutely.
12:26So, I guess in your opinion, when does loyalty to a company become a trap?
12:35Oh.
12:35And when does job hopping get stupid?
12:38For me, work is work.
12:39There's no loyalty to any company for me.
12:41I agree.
12:41Yeah.
12:43100%.
12:43I mean, yeah, I like my bosses, I like my colleagues, we're good friends.
12:47But to me, work is work.
12:48And when I think it's time for me to leave, I will leave.
12:50Yeah.
12:50Yeah.
12:51I think you can kind of tell when it's, you know, when you've sort of like overstayed
12:56your welcome.
12:56Yeah.
12:57For sure.
12:58When your time is up.
13:00I mean, having said that, I know that there are companies who treat employees extremely
13:03well.
13:04They have a really good path for them.
13:05Your boss is great.
13:06Your colleagues are great.
13:07By all means, you can stay for as long as you want.
13:09But I think in most cases, you will find that even if everything is perfect, eventually
13:13you will plateau.
13:14And if you want to take the next step, then you just got to look somewhere else.
13:16Yeah.
13:17And I think like, if we're talking about like the ideal number of years that you should
13:21be sticking around in a company, I think like what you said, two to three years, it's probably
13:26a good number because I think about two to three years in as well is when you start, you
13:32sort of like reach, reach this like fork in the road whereby you, you probably notice
13:38that you're plateauing.
13:39Yeah.
13:40And you need a shift of some sort.
13:41So it's either you shift to a different company and you leave or you stick around and you try
13:48to like figure.
13:50Yeah.
13:50I mean, if things are good after two years and you just stick around and keep going.
13:53Absolutely.
13:54Absolutely.
13:55Okay.
13:56So I guess the first story that I have for you is.
14:00I love job questions actually.
14:02Yeah.
14:03Should I quit my job?
14:04Yeah.
14:05Should we do the answer?
14:06Yes.
14:08Guess it's okay.
14:08Yeah.
14:09If you're complaining about your job, that's okay.
14:11Okay.
14:11So the first story is, I stayed at my first job for three years with the hope that hard
14:16work would eventually pay off.
14:17Oh, that's sad.
14:18That's a trap in itself.
14:22I took on extra tasks, mentored, new colleagues, and even worked weekends, but nothing changed.
14:28There were no raises, no promotions, and no discussions about growth.
14:31When I finally decided to switch companies, my new offer came with a 40% salary increase
14:36and better benefits.
14:37That was the moment I realized I was never the problem.
14:40I was simply being undervalued.
14:41Yep.
14:42Since then, I've made it a habit to review my salary and market rates every year.
14:46I also track my achievements and skills so I can negotiate confidently when the time
14:51comes.
14:52Staying loyal is fine, but you should never stay stagnant.
14:54Yep.
14:56100%.
14:56100%.
14:57I 100% agree.
14:58I guess, yeah.
14:59What's the question?
15:00How often do you evaluate your market value or track your career growth to make sure you're
15:04being paid fairly?
15:05Yep.
15:06I think just like this person, I do it once a year.
15:08So back when I was working, I used to do interviews every year, actually.
15:10Oh, okay.
15:11Right.
15:11Yeah, I would secure a job and I know how much they were offering me and I know how
15:14much is above my rate and that would go to my boss.
15:17I wouldn't tell my boss that I went for an interview and got another job.
15:20I would be like, hey, you know, the market rate for my role right now is X percent higher
15:24than what I'm currently getting.
15:25Do you think we can get closer to that?
15:28Right.
15:28Yeah, that kind of makes him a bit worried that I might leave as well.
15:31Right, right.
15:32That's the goal.
15:32I think it's a really brave conversation to have because I think some people find that
15:36really, really awkward because, yeah, when you're talking about money, it's kind of
15:43like sensitive.
15:43Yeah.
15:44So maybe, I think with this one, like definitely have a chat like your boss, right?
15:51Especially if you have a good relationship with your boss, I think it's worth.
15:54Yeah.
15:56I'm not sensitive, but I think you have to do it.
15:58Yeah.
15:58If you want no money, you have to do it.
16:00Absolutely.
16:00Absolutely.
16:01Okay.
16:02Next story.
16:03At the start of my career, I changed jobs almost every year.
16:08Same.
16:09Each time, I earned a little more and felt like I was climbing fast.
16:13But after a while, recruiters started to see my resume as unstable and I lost out on good
16:17opportunities because they doubted my commitment.
16:21The higher pay was nice, but I realized I had no long-term growth plan and I had to start
16:25rebuilding my professional reputation from scratch.
16:28Now, before accepting any offer, I look beyond the salary and think about career development.
16:32Yep.
16:32Learning opportunities and financial stability.
16:35I've learned that growing your income means growing your value, not just your job count.
16:41Before you switch jobs, do you calculate how it will impact your long-term goals, savings
16:45and professional reputation?
16:48Absolutely.
16:49Yeah.
16:49I think I will always do that.
16:50Yeah.
16:51Yeah.
16:51I think we talk about job hopping, you know, if it's not right for you.
16:55I would even say if you join a company and there are a lot of red flags, you can even
16:58leave for six months.
16:58It's fine.
16:59But having said that, you don't want to just keep hopping for the sake of a salary
17:03raise, like we were talking about.
17:04Yeah.
17:04You've got to think about long-term.
17:05If you leave after six months and you do this four or five times in a row, realistically,
17:10you wouldn't have any growth because how much can you contribute in a company in six months,
17:13right?
17:14So yeah, just got to balance the two.
17:16Yeah.
17:16And like, I'm such a huge believer that whenever you interview with a potential employer,
17:23they are interviewing you as much as you are interviewing them.
17:28Exactly.
17:28So they are evaluating you as much as you are evaluating them.
17:32Exactly.
17:33Exactly.
17:33Before I change jobs, I spoke to my direct manager twice.
17:37Right.
17:37I told H.I.
17:38I want to speak to him one more time just to make sure that, you know, he and the company
17:41is right for me as well.
17:42Yeah.
17:42It's a two-way thing.
17:43It's a two-way thing.
17:44Yeah.
17:44100%.
17:44Sure.
17:45Okay.
17:45Any final tips and tricks?
17:47I think there's no right or wrong answer when it comes to stay or move.
17:51But I think the important thing is you just got to look at yourself, where you are right
17:55now and where you want to be, right?
17:56You can achieve, what's the word, corporate greatness or whatever you're looking for, whether
18:03you stay or move.
18:04You can do it either way, but you need to see whether your current company can do it for
18:07you.
18:07And if they can't, change to another job.
18:09I think there's no, you don't have to stay loyal.
18:12You don't have to stay there for 10 years or whatever it is.
18:14At least that's really a transactional thing.
18:16If the company wasn't doing well, they will cut you off, no questions asked.
18:19So just do the same.
18:21It's a two-way thing, just like we talked about.
18:22Right?
18:23Cool.
18:24Nice talking to you, Yasmin.
18:25Interesting topic.
18:25I hope you guys enjoyed this one and see you in the next one.
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