- 5 weeks ago
In this episode, Ibrahim Sani breaks down the realities of leading Yayasan Peneraju through Malaysia’s biggest talent, equity, and education challenges. We dive into scaling opportunities without losing quality, bridging urban–rural divides, and navigating debates on meritocracy, race-based support, and national ambition.
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MusicTranscript
00:00People can do good if we give them the opportunity to do so.
00:03This is just one example.
00:05Then I joined Islam Banking, NeonCab.
00:06A lot more to learn.
00:07Then I joined CMB, a lot more to learn.
00:08Then I joined BFM.
00:09I've never done broadcast ever in my life.
00:12Never trained in it.
00:13Never thought of it.
00:14Never dreamt about it.
00:15It's abstract to look at it that way because if you are a chartered accountant and you work at Deloitte for instance or EY and your salary is $4,500 or $5,000, you still makan gaji.
00:28You're still a corporate slave.
00:32I'm very familiar with the Big Four and any auditing firm.
00:35I think today we're looking at statespeople or statesmen and stateswomen that they should aspire to be inspirational as well because Malaysians really do look up to them to look for inspiration.
00:47I think if we have more people, people like you asking these kind of thoughtful questions, you have to get the book and buy it.
00:55It's everywhere. It's inside whatever kinokunyah.
00:58What is it for happiness?
00:59There is an equation for happiness and this, he calls it the algebra of happiness.
01:04Okay.
01:04Welcome to another episode of Life Confessions and as usual, we have amazing guests who join us.
01:17Today is another person who we have so much to discover and also discuss about CEO of Yayasan Peneraju with us, Ibrahim Sani.
01:27Yes, hi Terry.
01:29We're technically still somewhat colleagues, technically, in Astro but it's so much fun to see you again after so many years.
01:37I agree because you're also still currently a TV host at the same time.
01:40Yeah, so we have a weekly show called The Economy on Niagawani, a sister show inside the Astro family.
01:46It's very highbrow, we talk about boring stuff like GDP and government debt and stuff like that.
01:52So interesting and cerebral, cerebral, yeah.
01:54Cerebral, okay, that's a nice way of putting it.
01:56But yes, but those kind of discussions are still needed because we forget that new people are now entering the workforce.
02:05We're talking about Gen Zs are now taking up their first jobs and we need to talk about national finances.
02:13We need to talk about how the economy works.
02:16So, you know, it's worth noting that millennials are in their 40s and Gen Zs are in the workforce and in no time Gen Alphas are entering the workforce.
02:27So the conversation of this kind of highbrow economic stuff is still needed.
02:31Even though we don't get much viewers, that's not the point.
02:34The point here is that...
02:35And that's the sad part, right?
02:36It's so important.
02:37It is important.
02:38It's so important that...
02:39And I don't blame the audience because the onus is up to people like us to educate, entertain and inform, no matter how dry the subject is.
02:48It's not difficult.
02:49It's just dry.
02:50That's all.
02:50You need to take an interest in things, even though they may seem less than exciting, but that doesn't make them any less important.
02:59Absolutely.
02:59And that's the role that you are committed to.
03:01But of course, the reason why I want to do this podcast is not just because of the caliber of this podcast, but because I want to see you, Terry.
03:07I'm very excited too, man.
03:09Always.
03:10Because the last time we spoke, we were talking about more on your personal life and how you manage that.
03:15Now, you've taken on another role since 2023, CEO of Yayasan Peneraju.
03:21And your LinkedIn notes describe you as part CEO, part cultural architect and part digital strategist at Yayasan Peneraju.
03:29How do you balance those roles in practice and which part keeps you up at night?
03:33Okay, so the LinkedIn bio was written by ChatGPT version 5.5.
03:38Right.
03:38So let's clear the air.
03:41But I'm using the paid version of ChatGPT.
03:45I think that's $20 per month or something like that.
03:48And I was asking ChatGPT, please scour the internet on me.
03:53Right.
03:53And they said that based on the things that we've discovered on the internet, this is the thing that comes out, which I think is fun.
03:59That's why I put it there.
04:00But the reality is as such where the copy that we read and see online right now, my estimation is more than half is written by AI.
04:09Right.
04:10Including press releases that companies are now issuing, mostly is written by AI.
04:14And this is scary because the ethics that surround this whole AI writing of copy is not yet established.
04:21So we might want to talk about if a copy is written by AI, we better declare it.
04:27Right.
04:27So when we spoke to our ex-colleague Mediha, who now runs the content forum over at the Ministry of Communications, it's still at the self-declaration stage where people might want to self-declare that the thing is written by AI or not.
04:45Based on trust.
04:46Based on trust.
04:47Yeah.
04:47And I think that, you know, maybe I can start with myself.
04:50So I think I should write this copy written by AI and all that.
04:54But to answer your question more directly, the life that I'm having now is fun.
05:00It's hectic.
05:01But it's also fulfilling a need for me to continue to serve the community.
05:07It's important to note that at Yasan Peraju, what we do primarily is developing talents and the mechanism surrounding on how we help talents, i.e.
05:16giving them the right training, the right certifications and the kind of fulfillment the country needs.
05:21We need X amount of charter accountants, X amount of data analysts and so on.
05:24Generally speaking, it's also helping individuals uplift themselves to become not just adders or adding value to the community or economy, making them value creators, i.e.
05:37They create fresh new ideas and value to the economy.
05:42And that is a calling that I am so privileged to have right now.
05:46And I feel honoured to be working alongside my colleagues at Yasan Peraju and the Minister of Economy or the EPU to doing this kind of work.
05:56It's really a nice effort to be done.
05:59And no matter how tired I get, I'm so pleased with myself because at least I believe that there are real lives that we are actually helping to elevate.
06:08And that is the greatest satisfaction that I can have right now.
06:11Can you give us some examples of the people whom you've met who've been through the process and where they are now?
06:18So there's this story about a talent, a Bumi Butra, non-Muslim Sabahan talent called Alice.
06:25She comes from a very impoverished community.
06:29There's poor and then there's abject poverty and then there's Alice.
06:32So that's how poor she was.
06:34We took her under the old program called Peneraju Tunas.
06:37We gave her an excellent education, high school education.
06:41And because of the opportunity that she had during the high school period, she could obtain a scholarship to do her ACCA.
06:48And after three years of doing the AFIA, what we call the ACCA pathway, at 21, she finished university with a chartered status.
07:00No degree, but chartered status at ACCA.
07:02Immediately, she worked in a big four and her salary at that point in time was RM4,500.
07:07And after working three years, she became a full member of ACCA and she worked one or two years and then she disappeared off the map.
07:15And that's fine because as long as we ensure that she gets the right education, she gets the right opportunities, it's up to her to decide what she can do with the skills that she has obtained.
07:25Two years ago, we discovered that she actually came back to a community in Sabah and she is now working as a bookkeeper and an accountant for places of worship in her community.
07:39She is actually a bookkeeper and an accountant for three churches, two mosques and one budwara sahib.
07:45And she's doing this pro bono.
07:47And the reason she can do this is because the economic sanctity of her house is secured.
07:52She is, her husband is the one that is earning the keep.
07:57But she is now affecting change in her community through the skills that we have given.
08:02And when I met her and I asked her, why do you do this pro bono?
08:05She said, how else can I help my community?
08:08I'm already a chartered accountant.
08:09I can manage large company accounts.
08:12And I feel that this is my best way to serve the community.
08:16And the fact that she's agnostic about the communities that she's serving,
08:19doesn't matter which religion or which religious houses and stuff like that.
08:22It just shows that people can do good if we give them the opportunity to do so.
08:27This is just one example.
08:28So I can give you 85,000 other stories.
08:31But these are just the real-life examples that we can share that is really impactful.
08:36And I really appreciate the stories of all these talents and alumni that has actually come forward and tell their stories.
08:42So for 2026, we're going to be featuring a lot more of these stories.
08:46Because there's one thing of me telling their stories, but there's another when they tell their own stories.
08:50So I believe that the nation needs to be inspired and the nation needs to be enlightened.
08:55And I think that if these talents come out and tell their own stories,
08:59I think they're going to inspire others to do the same.
09:01Absolutely.
09:01Because like you said, these are just two of a multitude of stories that you have.
09:06And the fact that this is the kind of work that Yasan Pinaraju is doing is amazing.
09:10And when you mention opportunity, it's interesting.
09:11Because people keep saying that the reason why many people are not pulling themselves out of their social status is because of opportunity.
09:19But they don't realize sometimes to reach and get to the opportunity requires travel.
09:24But what you do is you bring the opportunity to them instead.
09:27So it meets them where they are.
09:29Yeah, and one of the greatest outreach programs that we have ever done ever since inception in 2012 at Yasan Pinaraju is the recent program that we did in Sabah.
09:39It's called Bah Upgrade, where we actually penetrated over 21 cities in Sabah.
09:46Large cities like Lahat Datu and Kota Kinabalu.
09:49Middling cities like Semporna and Keningau.
09:52And small cities like Pensiangan and Kunak.
09:54And we brought our programs to them because we believe that outreach, especially in states like Sabah, requires high activation cost.
10:06But no matter how high the activation cost for them to get the trainings and certifications needed from Yasan Pinaraju,
10:12the payoff is actually well founded.
10:18And no matter how high the activation cost is going to incur on us,
10:21cost meaning financial cost and non-financial cost because we actually mobilized the entire Yasan Pinaraju over to Sabah.
10:27It means that we are also ensuring that our program is not just restricted to, you know, Semenanjung,
10:33but to also penetrate the places that we are mandated to help, i.e. Sabah.
10:39So these kind of on-ground activation is actually needed and the results are quite high.
10:43Sabah has the lowest enrollment across the state for Yasan Pinaraju, both in capita and per capita and in absolute numbers.
10:54Selangor, for instance, I'll give you an example.
10:56We have enrolled more than 10,000 talents from Selangor this year.
11:01KL, who has, quite frankly, a lesser population domicile,
11:05I'm not talking about people working KL, but people staying in KL,
11:09we have enrolled over 6,000 people in KL.
11:11But in Sabah, 400 total, absolute numbers in 2025.
11:17But through, what do you call this, BAH upgrade, we have enrolled over 1,200.
11:23And in a span of two to three weeks, or three weeks, we call it about 18 days.
11:28In 18 days, we have enrolled over 1,200 people.
11:31So this means what, you know, if we go down on the ground,
11:36there are people that want this opportunity.
11:38And we don't have to do a hard sell.
11:40They were waiting for folks like us to actually share our programs and our possibilities with them
11:46because they are ready to take up the offer if we present it to them.
11:49And this is what I mean by going to the ground and activating it.
11:53Outreach, yeah.
11:54Yeah, the outreach.
11:55Another big program that we've done, again, in our history,
11:58is what we call Jom Explore, where this is targeted towards,
12:02by the way, BAH upgrade is targeted towards everyone,
12:04anybody above the age of 16.
12:0616 until, you know, no age limit.
12:09Okay.
12:09And the people that participated from BAH upgrade
12:12came from people in their 50s, in their 60s.
12:14The oldest participant was a 69-year-old gentleman
12:17who wants to know what, you know, basic Microsoft Office.
12:21Right.
12:21And the cost is cheap.
12:23It's about 200, 300 bucks, you know.
12:25So, we're more than happy to underwrite that particular training for him.
12:28So, this is the kind of people that we're working with in Sabah.
12:31But for Jom Explore, it's targeted towards post-SPM goers.
12:39Our young Malaysians aged between 17 to 18.
12:42Terrestrial education.
12:43Terrestrial education.
12:44And we're giving them a fast-track approach
12:46where if they take up this four-year program with us,
12:50they can graduate with either an ICAEW chartered status
12:53or an ACCA chartered status.
12:56And in previous years, we enrolled about 300 to 400 people per year.
13:00This year, we have enrolled more than 1,000 people
13:03through our Jom Explore.
13:04And again, same thing with the upgrade.
13:07We went to places like Miri, Bintulu, Kucheng, Kota Baru, Kuandan,
13:13all these places because we know that fantastic talents lie in these areas.
13:18We just need to activate our people on the ground.
13:20Now, you've been CEO since 2023 of Yaya Sam Penaraju.
13:24In that time, tell us about maybe the single boldest decision
13:29that you've made and in a way to measure your success.
13:33How would you describe that or what would you say?
13:36To leave permanent employment and to sign up under a contract in employment.
13:41I'm telling you, that was the hardest decision.
13:44A very personal decision.
13:45It is a very personal decision because I'm divorced.
13:51That means I have an alimony to manage.
13:53I have three kids.
13:55One of them is a university going.
13:57And two is in high school.
14:00I have loans.
14:02I have debts.
14:05And while my debt servicing ratio is manageable,
14:08I would also need a continuous employment process.
14:13And that was the scary part.
14:15That was the only thing that I need to navigate and overcome.
14:19It's not the role of the CEO that I find daunting.
14:22This is because prior to my career in Astro, I had a two-year career in BFM.
14:30But before I joined BFM, I was actually an investment banker at CMB Investment.
14:35And I'm a chartered accountant.
14:38So working in accounts, working in finance, corporate finance, mergers and acquisitions,
14:44dealing with large organizations, working with a lot of people,
14:47working with government, working with the private sector,
14:49all that is how I entered the workforce when I graduated from university.
14:54That wasn't the scary part because I do believe that,
14:57as a project, no matter how intricate it is,
14:59at the end of the day, it is about managing talents.
15:01And how do you manage talents?
15:01You manage the finance of the talents.
15:03That's fine.
15:04But that very personal decision on going for contract,
15:08that is the one that is scary.
15:09I mean, if I've been really honest about this, Thetri.
15:11And that's always what you are.
15:13You're always very, very honest.
15:15It's too honest.
15:17Nothing less.
15:17And also passion at the same time.
15:19I think to see this passion now being the driving force behind Yaya Sam Penadru
15:24has a lot of people confident in not just you,
15:28but also in the process and what it stands for.
15:30No, definitely.
15:31Because look, when we work with a social element
15:37and you're trying to help people,
15:40it's really important if you are in it for the right reasons.
15:44If you join an organisation that has a social element,
15:49like for instance, a government link company or a foundation,
15:54which Yaya Sam Penadru is both,
15:55you better be there because you want to help people.
15:58If you want to help yourself,
16:00you might not necessarily, number one,
16:02be happy in the work that you do.
16:03But number two, you might not find meaning in the work that you do.
16:07Now, the people at Yaya Sam Penadru
16:09and my colleagues over at the EPU or the Minister of Economy,
16:14I cannot help myself but feel humbled and privileged
16:19because their desire to help the community,
16:23in my estimation, is far higher than my own desire to help the community.
16:26And they are willing to work long hours to spend long travelling days
16:33and to be away from their own families
16:36in order for them to achieve the objective of helping others.
16:39And because of this passion that I've never seen anywhere before,
16:44it really is bringing me down to earth, to be honest.
16:49Not to say that, you know, when I was working in Astro or BFM
16:52or even in CIMB, people were not passionate about what they do.
16:55But let me be frank here.
16:58I have never seen a passionate banker in my life.
17:02I mean, if you have, please let me know
17:04and we'll find this particular unicorn.
17:07And the reason is because being a banker is a good job.
17:10It is a high-paying job normally.
17:12It is a career-defining moment
17:14because, you know, you have step-ups
17:16after a certain interval of your career.
17:19And that's fine.
17:19And quite frankly, you're helping people.
17:21You know, I want to buy a car loan.
17:23I want to issue a sukuk.
17:24I want to have easy payment process.
17:26It's a good business to be in.
17:29But you compare the level of passion,
17:31say for instance, being a banker
17:32with a passion of helping the community.
17:35And you start to realise that life is short.
17:38And no wonder people spend so much time and effort
17:42doing the community work
17:44and might not necessarily get well remunerated for it.
17:47But the payback is not through ringgit and cents.
17:51The payback is in seeing actual people
17:54elevating their life from a stage where they were
17:58to a stage where they are at.
18:00Now, that is the highest satisfaction
18:02that I could think of.
18:04But what is more satisfying than that
18:06is that to see these individuals
18:08who themselves have lifted them,
18:10you know, have increased their station in life,
18:13then give back to their own community.
18:14So, this cycle is so virtuous to a point where
18:18if you are part of that virtuous cycle,
18:21you are so privileged and you are so thankful
18:24that, you know, in your own little small way,
18:27you are part of this journey.
18:29And that virtuous cycle that we look at
18:31is something that we have encoded it.
18:33We have made it into a system at Yasan Peraju
18:37and we are creating a slogan, so-called,
18:41called Virtuous Cycle of Value Creators,
18:44of VC Squared.
18:46And that's how we measure our impact to the community.
18:50It's no longer,
18:50dulu we have two ways of doing it,
18:52which is rather straightforward
18:53and, you know, in hindsight, pretty dumb.
18:56Number one is salary increment,
18:59peningkatan gaji.
19:00If before your gaji was RM1,500,
19:02you take our cost,
19:03gaji RM3,000, that means very good lah,
19:05that means you 100% increase, okay.
19:07Another one is employment.
19:08Dulu you unemployed, now you're employed.
19:10So, you know, we have reduced the unemployment number.
19:13It is so abstract
19:15to look at it that way
19:19because if you are a chartered accountant
19:21and you work at Deloitte, for instance,
19:23or EY,
19:23and your salary is RM4,500 or RM5,000,
19:25you still makan gaji, you know,
19:28and you're still, you know, a corporate slave.
19:31And, you know,
19:32I'm very familiar with the Big Four
19:33and any auditing firm
19:34and while they like what they do,
19:36after a certain time,
19:37maybe three years,
19:37normally three years,
19:38that's where the creeping sense comes in.
19:42They get frustrated
19:43and they want to leave.
19:45And being an auditor
19:47at a big firm
19:48or a small firm
19:48or whatever
19:49is kind of okay,
19:51but recently there was an article
19:53that says
19:53there's a chartered accountant
19:54who left an audit firm
19:55to start his own nasi goreng company
19:57and ayam goreng company
19:59and he is making about
20:02RM1,000 to RM2,000 net
20:04after minusing all costs.
20:06I'm telling you,
20:07that person,
20:09I'm not too sure
20:09who that person is,
20:10a lady or a man,
20:11but that person,
20:13that is the value creator
20:14that we're looking at.
20:15For every sense of the purpose,
20:17he is feeding his community.
20:19He is now a business owner.
20:22Whatever that he owns
20:23is capitalized,
20:23so he is also a capital owner
20:25and in due time,
20:26his business will grow
20:27and he will hire people
20:28and now he's an economic multiplier.
20:31That, my friend,
20:32is what we're looking at.
20:33You create a hub.
20:34Yeah, a human hub
20:36that creates more.
20:38Yeah.
20:38That's amazing.
20:39They're lucky to have you
20:40in their corridor actually,
20:41you know.
20:42And you know,
20:42you've described Penaraju
20:43as acting like a talent bank,
20:45right,
20:45that identifies,
20:47nurtures and channels
20:48Bumi Putra professionals,
20:50entrepreneurs and community leaders.
20:51What are the biggest obstacles
20:53you face
20:54in making that channeling effective
20:56and preventing leakage?
20:58Because you've mentioned
20:58some of it,
20:59it's just getting out there
21:00and making sure you reach the people.
21:01What other challenges
21:02and obstacles are there?
21:03So, right now we have
21:05a pool of 85,000 talents
21:09and it's growing.
21:10Hopefully we'll reach
21:11about 90,000 alumni
21:13by the year end.
21:15And next year,
21:16we plan to enroll
21:17about 4,000 plus
21:18to 5,000.
21:19So we're going to reach
21:20a number of about
21:2195,000 to 100,000.
21:23Wow.
21:23When we spoke
21:24with our minister in charge,
21:28Muhammad Senator
21:29Datuk Seri Amir Hamzah,
21:30who is also
21:31the second finance minister,
21:33he was talking about
21:34building a cadre of talent
21:36coming out of
21:37Yasan Peraju
21:38that is fulfilling
21:40the needs of the nation
21:41by making sure
21:42that they are
21:42CFO, CEO ready
21:44for, you know,
21:45leading GLCs
21:46and large companies,
21:47able to be
21:49successful entrepreneurs
21:50and can raise funds
21:51in the millions
21:52if not billions,
21:53and to be able
21:54to be community leaders
21:56and help the community
21:57at large
21:57by being
21:58what we call
22:00economic multipliers
22:01in the community
22:01or community leaders.
22:03If we are successful
22:05in building
22:06that kind of pool
22:07to make sure
22:08that the talent
22:09is being drawn
22:10out of this particular
22:11alumni pool of ours,
22:13then we have done
22:14our job.
22:14And so far,
22:16we are going
22:17towards that trajectory.
22:18Of the 85,000 pool
22:20that we have,
22:21we have about
22:221,000 people
22:23that meets
22:24that kind of
22:24qualifications.
22:25For instance,
22:27the LTAT CEO,
22:28he is an alumni
22:29of Yasam Praju.
22:31The founder
22:31of Pandai App,
22:32he is also
22:33an alumni
22:34of Yasam Praju.
22:36And the story
22:38of Alice,
22:39where she is
22:40a community leader
22:41in her kampung
22:43in Sabah,
22:43she also is
22:44from the talent pool.
22:46So what we need
22:46now is to
22:47scale up
22:48that talent pool
22:49of people
22:50that can be
22:51leaders.
22:52So much so
22:53that we have
22:54a target of
22:55creating 10,000
22:57Bumi Putera leaders
22:58out of this
22:59100,000 denominator
23:00base that we have
23:01over the next
23:02five years.
23:03Five years?
23:04Over the next
23:04five years.
23:05So because we
23:06earmark our progress
23:07through the
23:08Malaysia plans
23:09and in the
23:1013th Malaysia plan
23:11on the RMK 13
23:12from the years
23:132026 until 2030,
23:14we need to create
23:1510,000 leaders
23:16out of that
23:17base of
23:18100,000 talents.
23:20Right.
23:20So that's where,
23:22to answer your
23:23question more directly,
23:23how do we ensure
23:24that we can
23:26create those
23:27kind of talents
23:28is actually at
23:29the point of
23:30inception.
23:31When we take
23:31them in as
23:32talents in the
23:34beginning,
23:35we must know
23:37if they are
23:37ready to be
23:40change agents
23:41from the get-go.
23:43Now, while we
23:44understand that
23:44people change
23:45over time
23:47and depending
23:48on where they
23:49are at the
23:50life stages,
23:51one thing is
23:52always constant,
23:54how are they
23:55interacting with
23:56their community?
23:57Because no matter
23:58where you are
23:59at your life
23:59stage,
24:00no matter where
24:00you are in
24:01your station
24:01in life,
24:02in economic
24:03terms,
24:04if you have
24:05no empathy,
24:06if you have
24:07no connection
24:08to your
24:08community and
24:09your people
24:10and your
24:10nation and
24:11your background
24:14and your
24:15family,
24:17you will not
24:19necessarily cultivate
24:20that kind of
24:21behaviour over
24:22time.
24:22So, social
24:23responsibility?
24:24By the way,
24:25if you have no
24:26social responsibility,
24:27that is fine.
24:28Actually, it's fine.
24:29It's your life,
24:29you know.
24:30But that might
24:31mean that a
24:32place like
24:33Yasen Praju
24:33may have to
24:34not opt for
24:35you as a
24:36talent and we
24:37might need to
24:38opt for another
24:39talent that has
24:40a high social
24:42awareness.
24:42may not
24:43necessarily be
24:43the responsibility
24:44but a social
24:45awareness that
24:46is high.
24:47And that's
24:48where we
24:49use that
24:50particular marker
24:51in identifying
24:52talents coming
24:52in because if
24:54that talent has
24:54high social
24:55responsibility from
24:56the get-go,
24:57in all likelihood,
24:59everything that
25:00that talent does,
25:01i.e. getting
25:01training, getting
25:02educated, getting
25:03jobs, getting
25:04what, is all
25:05geared towards
25:06helping his or
25:06her community
25:07in the long
25:08run.
25:09And that's
25:09how we ensure
25:10that the talent
25:11pool that we
25:11have, that
25:12100,000, the
25:12talent bank that
25:13we have, is
25:14actually filled
25:14with rich
25:15talents, talents
25:16that can actually
25:17have the desire
25:18and want and
25:19need to help
25:20their own
25:20community.
25:21But when we
25:22look at the
25:23marker on
25:23identifying high
25:25social responsibility
25:26individuals, we
25:27look at the
25:28involvement in the
25:29community, the
25:30projects that
25:31they do, the
25:32stories that
25:34they tell,
25:35whether or not
25:36it is all about
25:37benefiting themselves
25:38or they're using
25:39this type of
25:40training or
25:40education in
25:42order for
25:42them to do
25:42something else,
25:43i.e. help
25:44their family,
25:44help their
25:44poor parents,
25:47help their
25:47elderly family
25:48members or
25:49whatever.
25:50If you talk
25:50about me,
25:51me, me, me,
25:51me, you
25:52know, I
25:52want to get
25:52this degree
25:52because I
25:53believe I
25:53deserve it,
25:54I this,
25:54I that,
25:55you know,
25:57most likely
25:58than not,
25:59you're not
25:59high in
26:00social
26:00responsibility.
26:01And the
26:02fifth most
26:03important thing
26:03is validation
26:04from the
26:04community.
26:05Because if you
26:06tend to do
26:06work for the
26:07community, the
26:07community tends
26:08to vouch for
26:08you.
26:09And if
26:10you tend
26:10to, you
26:11don't even
26:12have to shout
26:13out about it
26:14so much.
26:15We just ask
26:15around and we
26:16know that in a
26:17particular community
26:17or this person
26:18has been helping
26:19out and this
26:21person is ready
26:22to lend a
26:23hand every
26:24now and then.
26:26Those kind of
26:27markers are being
26:27used in us
26:28identifying the
26:28talents before we
26:29start to enroll
26:30them in our
26:30programs.
26:30That's so
26:31important and
26:33sounds like you
26:33have your job
26:34cut out for
26:35you.
26:35Yeah.
26:36And also,
26:37one of the
26:37issues that
26:38crops up
26:38whenever we
26:39speak about
26:40improving talent
26:41in Malaysia
26:42is the fact
26:43that there
26:43are educational
26:44inequalities that
26:45we cannot turn
26:46a blind eye to,
26:47right?
26:47Like urban
26:47versus rural,
26:48east versus west,
26:49income disparities.
26:50It remains quite
26:51stubborn and it's
26:52an issue that
26:52keeps seeming
26:54prevalent.
26:55What role should
26:55a foundation
26:56like Penaraju
26:57play in mitigating
26:58or accentuating
26:59those divides?
27:00I ask this
27:01because I'm
27:02sure one of
27:03the things
27:03people ask
27:04whenever you
27:04hear about a
27:05foundation like
27:06Penaraju is
27:07that, is it
27:08sad that it
27:09has to exist?
27:11Are we
27:13foundationally
27:14failing in
27:15terms of the
27:15education we're
27:16already giving
27:16that we need
27:17a foundation
27:18like this?
27:19That's a very
27:20insightful question,
27:21Terian.
27:21This is an
27:22excellent question
27:23and I can tell
27:23you, I'm not
27:24buttering you up
27:24because I've
27:26been interviewed
27:26so many times,
27:27it's not often
27:28that we get
27:28these kind of
27:28questions.
27:29number one,
27:31it is sad
27:31because if
27:32you have a
27:33systemic
27:33integrity in
27:37helping talents,
27:38you don't need
27:39an organisation
27:40like Yasen
27:41Penaraju.
27:44Sweden,
27:45Norway,
27:45Denmark,
27:46Germany tend
27:47to not have
27:48this kind of
27:48foundation to
27:49help their
27:50nationals.
27:50they tend to
27:51have these
27:52kind of
27:52foundations to
27:53help other
27:54immigrants and
27:56through their
27:59diplomatic
28:00missions around
28:00the world,
28:01they get
28:01foreigners to
28:03come and
28:03study at
28:04their countries
28:04to actually
28:05help them
28:05understand a
28:07bit better
28:07on how to
28:08improve their
28:08own economic
28:09station in
28:10life.
28:11But for us
28:12to do this,
28:13it is also
28:14an emblematic
28:15situation where
28:15we acknowledge
28:17that there is
28:18not just
28:19inequality in
28:20access to
28:21education,
28:21but the
28:22inequity in
28:24access to
28:24education.
28:26And the
28:26fact that we
28:27are having to
28:28do this now
28:28is not
28:29necessarily a
28:30bad thing
28:30because we
28:31have recognised
28:31that there is
28:32an inequity and
28:33inequality in
28:34access to
28:35education,
28:35but the
28:36remedy factor
28:37is there.
28:38The sad part
28:39is that
28:39Yasen Praju
28:40is only for
28:41Bumi Putras
28:41and there's
28:43so many other
28:44communities that
28:45need help.
28:45The Indian
28:46community in
28:47particular need
28:47help and the
28:48Chinese community,
28:50I'm not just
28:50talking about
28:51Chinese in the
28:51urban areas,
28:52Chinese in rural
28:53areas also need
28:53help.
28:54And then you
28:55start to wonder,
28:56yeah, okay,
28:56not only is it
28:57said that a
28:59foundation like
28:59Yasen Praju
28:59has to exist,
29:00it's also said
29:01that a
29:02foundation like
29:02this has to
29:03also segregate
29:04according to
29:05caste,
29:05race and
29:07so on.
29:08But this
29:09is what we
29:10are left
29:11with since
29:12independence.
29:14And
29:14unfortunately or
29:15fortunately this
29:15is how the
29:16social contract
29:16has been
29:17drawn up.
29:18And
29:18unfortunately we
29:19have to do
29:20this in this
29:20way because
29:21this is how
29:22the country
29:22is.
29:23But to
29:24conclude this
29:25kind of
29:25viewpoint,
29:28it is
29:30important for
29:30us to note
29:31that we
29:33are working
29:34with the
29:34kind of
29:35best case
29:36scenario in
29:37the worst
29:38case
29:38circumstances.
29:39And because
29:40of this,
29:41we work with
29:43what we have
29:43right now in
29:44the most
29:45efficient and
29:45the most
29:46cost affordable
29:47way.
29:48And that's
29:48why Yasen Praju
29:49is doing
29:51this despite
29:52knowing that
29:53it's pretty
29:54sad that we
29:55have to exist
29:55in the first
29:56place.
29:56ultimately it
29:57would seem
29:57that while
29:58you're filling
29:59a gap that's
30:00currently there,
30:01the goal of
30:02foundations such
30:03as yourself
30:03would ultimately
30:04be to not
30:04be needed
30:05sometime in
30:05the future.
30:06But while we
30:07strive to get
30:08there, this is
30:09why we need.
30:10And I don't
30:11know how long
30:12it'll take for
30:13us to get
30:14there.
30:14I hope it's
30:15within our
30:16lifetime.
30:16I hope so
30:17too.
30:17But yalah,
30:20you gotta start
30:21somewhere,
30:21right?
30:21That's why
30:22conversations
30:22like this need
30:23to happen
30:23actually,
30:23right?
30:24It is.
30:24And we
30:25must never
30:25lose sight.
30:26And that's
30:26why your
30:26question is
30:27very insightful
30:27because your
30:28question touches
30:28on the point
30:29of the why.
30:31Why do we
30:31need to exist?
30:32Not how are we
30:33existing and how
30:34are we deploying
30:34the programs.
30:35Itu semua any
30:36rational CEO can
30:38answer.
30:39But the question
30:40of why, that is
30:42what we look at
30:42for our statesman
30:43and our
30:44politicians and
30:45our leaders
30:45because they
30:46need to take
30:48this political
30:49discourse at a
30:51higher level and
30:52talk about how
30:54our society must
30:56strive for.
30:57If we can't
30:59have that
30:59aspirational vision
31:01intact, it's
31:03hard for us to
31:04keep on going
31:05with our day-to-day
31:06business.
31:07And I think
31:07today we're
31:09looking at
31:09statespeople or
31:11statesmen and
31:11stateswomen that
31:13they should
31:13aspire to be
31:14inspirational as
31:16well because
31:16Malaysians really
31:17do look up to
31:17them to look
31:18for inspiration.
31:19So I think
31:21if we have
31:21more people,
31:22people like you
31:23asking these
31:24kind of thoughtful
31:24questions, I
31:25think we're
31:27off to a
31:27better future.
31:29But I think
31:29discourses like
31:30this must be
31:30had in the
31:31future.
31:31It's great that
31:32we can begin
31:33somewhere.
31:34Now many
31:34reformers advocate
31:35for a stronger
31:36collaboration
31:37between public,
31:38private and
31:38civil society in
31:40talent development.
31:41you've already
31:41begun collaborating
31:42with Teraju,
31:44Equinas to
31:45build an
31:46ecosystem which
31:47is like a
31:47pipeline almost
31:48to help
31:49someone go
31:49through the
31:50process.
31:50What structural
31:51or cultural
31:52barriers still
31:52prevent a
31:53unified Bumi
31:54Putra
31:54entrepreneurship
31:55or talent
31:56ecosystem?
31:57You're deep
31:58in it.
31:58What do you
31:59see?
32:01It actually
32:01starts in the
32:03unit household
32:03or the family
32:04household.
32:05People that
32:06you trust your
32:07whole life,
32:07people like your
32:07parents, are
32:09now cautioning
32:09you, warning
32:10you, telling
32:11you that this
32:12is a very
32:13risky enterprise
32:14to go after.
32:15Better you
32:16just makan
32:16gaji and
32:17work as an
32:17accelerated
32:18employee for
32:18the rest of
32:19your life.
32:19Remember this
32:20uncle or
32:21that auntie
32:21that started
32:22business, they
32:22are now in
32:23ruins because
32:24their business
32:24failed.
32:25You start to
32:26wonder, you
32:27had a very
32:28good idea on
32:28what business
32:29you want to
32:29pursue.
32:30You now have
32:30a chartered
32:31status, you're
32:31ready to go
32:32big on
32:33entrepreneurship,
32:34but the
32:35very people that
32:36you trust your
32:37whole life is
32:37now cautioning
32:38you against it.
32:39How many
32:40of these
32:42talents are
32:42ready to go
32:43against their
32:44parents and
32:45do it no
32:45matter what?
32:46I'm telling
32:47you not
32:47many.
32:48And that
32:49unit, not
32:50always the
32:50case, but
32:51not many.
32:51Not always
32:51the case, but
32:52there's no
32:53statistics about
32:54this, but
32:54let's guess,
32:569 out of
32:5610 would
32:57probably listen
32:58and heed to
32:58what the
32:58parents are
32:59trying to
32:59say.
32:59Based on
33:00what you've
33:01heard.
33:01Only one
33:02dares to
33:03dream and
33:03say,
33:04I know
33:05you are
33:05concerned for
33:06me, but
33:06I'm still
33:06doing it.
33:07One in
33:0810 maybe.
33:08I don't
33:09know.
33:09But what I'm
33:10trying to
33:10say is, if
33:11the
33:11discouragement
33:12to become
33:12economic
33:13multipliers and
33:14value creators
33:14is actually
33:15being discouraged
33:16and highly
33:17unappreciated at
33:19the home
33:19economics unit,
33:20you're creating
33:21a class of
33:22Bumi Putra
33:23talents that
33:24is afraid and
33:26highly discouraged
33:27to become
33:28one, i.e. to
33:29become a value
33:30creator.
33:31And that is so
33:32discouraging because
33:33Malaysia needs
33:34more entrepreneurs,
33:36Malaysia needs
33:36more enterprises
33:37and Malaysia
33:38needs more
33:39investors in
33:40order for us
33:41to lift
33:42ourselves from
33:42the quagmire
33:43that we are
33:43today, which
33:44is a
33:44middling
33:44income country.
33:45We have to
33:46raise up our
33:47status in life
33:48and become
33:49a true
33:51tiger of
33:52Asia.
33:52But we can't
33:53do that if we
33:54don't have
33:54enough enterprise.
33:57And it's
33:58sad because
33:5870% of
34:00Malaysians are
34:01Bumi Putra.
34:02So if we
34:03actually help
34:03the Bumi Putra
34:04class and
34:05lift them
34:06up, not
34:07just by being
34:07professionals,
34:08but become
34:09entrepreneurs,
34:10become social
34:11enterprises or
34:13social entrepreneurs,
34:15I think until
34:16and unless we
34:17do that, we're
34:17going to be
34:18stuck here
34:18forever.
34:19And I'm not
34:20asking you to
34:20bet your
34:21house on the
34:22business.
34:23There are ways
34:24to do
34:24enterprises and
34:26to do
34:26entrepreneurship
34:27at a safe
34:28scale.
34:29You don't have
34:30to bet your
34:30whole life
34:31savings on
34:31starting your
34:32next business
34:32venture.
34:33There are
34:34ways to do
34:34it and you
34:35can mitigate
34:36the risks
34:36involved.
34:37But to be
34:38highly discouraged
34:39just because you
34:40want to start a
34:40business is not
34:42the right way
34:43to do things.
34:43Right.
34:44Again, that's
34:45why it's so
34:45important to
34:46have Yayasan
34:46Peneraju because
34:47you almost
34:48give people
34:49permission to
34:51let them know
34:51that it's
34:52okay, what
34:52you're thinking
34:53is okay,
34:53right?
34:54Now, looking
34:55back on your
34:55journey from
34:56media and
34:57finance to
34:59leading now
34:59Yayasan
35:00Peneraju,
35:00right?
35:00What's the
35:02one belief
35:02that has
35:03stayed constant
35:03through every
35:04role that
35:05you've held?
35:07You've done a
35:07lot in your
35:08life and
35:08you're still
35:08doing a lot
35:09right now.
35:09It feels like
35:10you've got
35:10more hours in
35:11a day than
35:11the rest of
35:12us.
35:12So, what
35:13would that
35:13be, that
35:14one belief
35:14that has
35:14stayed constant
35:15through the
35:16roles that
35:17you've held?
35:19I'm not the
35:20smartest person
35:21in the room.
35:22That's the
35:22constant belief.
35:23Interesting, you
35:24believe that?
35:24I do because
35:26I'm not.
35:26I talk a
35:26lot.
35:27In this
35:28room, you
35:29might be
35:29the...
35:29In any
35:30room.
35:30I mean, only
35:31like Rafizi
35:33probably or
35:35Hamzah who
35:35talk more
35:35than me.
35:36But I
35:37talk a lot
35:38doesn't mean
35:39I know a
35:39lot.
35:40My constant
35:41belief is that
35:41there are
35:42always smarter
35:43people than
35:44me and I
35:45lean on
35:45them.
35:46And anybody
35:47who has
35:48worked with
35:48me, who
35:49has shared
35:50an office with
35:51me, would
35:52agree that I
35:54let them do
35:55what they
35:55do best.
35:57And the
35:57best way to
35:58lead, actually,
35:59is to give
36:00them all the
36:00support they
36:01need.
36:02And the
36:02reason I do
36:03this is because
36:03wherever I
36:04go, I'm
36:05always the
36:06newbie in
36:07that group.
36:09And, you
36:10know, for
36:10instance, if I
36:11started my
36:12career, actually
36:13I started my
36:14career before
36:14banking because
36:15my grades
36:15weren't that
36:16great.
36:16I actually
36:16worked in
36:17politics.
36:17I was the
36:18first political
36:18secretary to
36:19Nurul Izzah
36:19when she first
36:20won.
36:20What?
36:20In 2008.
36:21People know
36:22this.
36:23I didn't know
36:23that.
36:23Yeah, she
36:25just won.
36:26She didn't
36:26expect to
36:26win.
36:27She won.
36:28And she
36:28started scrambling
36:29and she's
36:30like, oh
36:30my God, now
36:30what do I
36:31do, right?
36:31And in
36:332008, I'm
36:34a fresh
36:34MP, 27
36:36years old.
36:36What do I
36:37do now?
36:38So I was
36:38actually working
36:39with her for
36:39about a year
36:40before I joined
36:41EonCamp and
36:41then CIMB.
36:43It sounds
36:44like you
36:44almost always
36:45strive to
36:46be the
36:47person who
36:48is, like,
36:49you keep
36:49looking for
36:50new situations
36:50so that you
36:51are learning
36:52more in
36:52every room
36:53that you
36:53enter.
36:53Yes, that's
36:53right.
36:54That's right.
36:54That's right.
36:55And I feel
36:55that there is
36:56always an
36:56opportunity for
36:57me to learn
36:57new things.
36:58But, you
36:59know, when I
37:00joined the
37:01political office
37:02on Riza, I'm
37:03the newbie
37:03there.
37:04She is the
37:04daughter of
37:05Luminary,
37:06Political
37:06Luminary
37:06Malaysia.
37:07So it's
37:07always more
37:08to learn
37:08from her.
37:09Then I joined
37:10Islam Banking
37:10NeonCamp,
37:11a lot more
37:11to learn.
37:11Then I joined
37:12CMB, a lot
37:12more to learn.
37:13Then I joined
37:13BFM.
37:14I've never
37:14done broadcast
37:15ever in my
37:16life, never
37:16trained in it,
37:17never thought
37:23list, right?
37:24But, you
37:25know, we
37:25learn.
37:26So my
37:27colleagues,
37:27your colleagues,
37:28Melissa Idris,
37:29Syrah Kuten,
37:30Kusu Chuang,
37:31Julian Ng,
37:33Noel Lim,
37:33they're all
37:34there to
37:35teach me.
37:37Now, I have
37:37ideas and I
37:38have a
37:39particular strong
37:40belief and I
37:40want to share
37:41it.
37:42But they were
37:42coaching me when
37:44I was in BFM.
37:44And then I joined
37:45Astro, same
37:47thing.
37:47So I'm
37:47Shulaiman, who
37:48is now with
37:48RTM, Ashwa
37:49Ismail, who is
37:50now leading
37:50Astro Awani.
37:51They were
37:51coaching me.
37:52And again, I
37:53have strong
37:53ideas, strong
37:54beliefs, but
37:55they were
37:55coaching me.
37:56And now at
37:56the SM
37:57Pranaju, I
37:57have a lot
37:58more colleagues
37:58that have
37:59done this
37:59for the
38:00longest of
38:00time and
38:01they know
38:02what to
38:02do.
38:03They just
38:03need the
38:03right support.
38:04So I'm
38:04there to,
38:05number one,
38:06get out of
38:06the way because
38:07they can
38:07execute the
38:08job better
38:08than me and
38:09number two,
38:09empower them.
38:10So basically,
38:11I ask them
38:11what you need.
38:12You need more
38:13support in what
38:14way?
38:15You need more
38:15staff?
38:15You need more
38:16clearance from
38:17the ministry?
38:18You need more
38:19marketing?
38:21What do you
38:22need?
38:23So that
38:23constant
38:24belief of
38:24I'm never
38:25the smartest
38:26person in
38:27the room is
38:28the constant.
38:29That's amazing.
38:30You're always the
38:31person who
38:31learns and
38:32teaches at the
38:32same time.
38:33Yeah, so
38:33because, you
38:34know, if you
38:35don't know
38:35everything,
38:36you don't know
38:38everything.
38:39So I think
38:41if a person,
38:42you know, just
38:43before coming
38:43here, I had
38:45breakfast with
38:47my colleague
38:48Najib Arof.
38:50You know, it's
38:51hilarious because
38:52he just met
38:53this fantastic
38:54professor in
38:54Oxford or
38:55whatever and
38:56you know,
38:57everybody knows
38:58this particular
38:58professor.
38:59when this
39:00guy introduces
39:03himself to
39:04Najib, he
39:05said, oh,
39:06you know, my
39:06name is
39:07Professor
39:07Whatever.
39:08I'm not too
39:09sure if you're
39:09familiar with
39:09my work.
39:10I am this.
39:11Where are you
39:12from?
39:12And the
39:13inquisitiveness is
39:13there.
39:14Now, Najib is
39:15flabbergasted and
39:16august like the
39:18whole world knows
39:19you and you're
39:20still identifying
39:21yourself as a
39:21humble person and
39:22you want to know
39:23more about me and
39:24you are trying to
39:26tell me, oh,
39:27this is what you
39:27do.
39:27But the whole
39:28world knows
39:28what this guy
39:29does, right?
39:30That level of
39:31humility needs to
39:32be expounded
39:34upon.
39:35Because if you
39:35tell me that,
39:36oh, I, you
39:37know, I am this
39:38famous singer and
39:39then you just sit
39:40down, you know,
39:42never assume people
39:43know you, right?
39:44It's like, oh,
39:45you know, how
39:46old are you?
39:46Oh, take a guess.
39:47And then somebody
39:48guess an age that
39:49is 10 years older
39:50than your real age,
39:50then you marah.
39:51So never go with
39:52the assumption.
39:53Always go with
39:54the notion that
39:54you are there to
39:55learn and most
39:56importantly, you
39:57while you may
39:58know things,
40:00you may not
40:00necessarily know
40:01things more than
40:01the other person.
40:02And I think
40:02that's the
40:03concern that I
40:03have.
40:03We come now to
40:04the rapid fire
40:06questions part of
40:07this.
40:08Whatever comes to
40:08mind is the
40:09answer we accept.
40:10Okay.
40:10And of course,
40:11just because this
40:11is your answer
40:12today doesn't
40:12mean this is
40:13going to be your
40:13same answer
40:13tomorrow.
40:14It could change
40:14tomorrow.
40:15Okay.
40:15This is just
40:16how you are
40:16feeling today.
40:17Okay.
40:17All right.
40:18Here we go.
40:18One word that
40:19describes your
40:20leadership style.
40:21I failed already.
40:24That better not be
40:25the answer.
40:25No, no.
40:26Okay.
40:27Reset.
40:27Reset.
40:28Okay.
40:29One word that
40:29describes your
40:30leadership style.
40:32Bold.
40:32Ah.
40:34The most overused
40:35buzzword in
40:35Malaysian corporate
40:36cities or circles
40:37rather,
40:38Malaysian corporate
40:39circles right now.
40:40AI.
40:40Ah.
40:41You're so right.
40:42Coffee order on a
40:43stressful morning.
40:45Black.
40:45Oh.
40:46Okay.
40:47Stressful morning.
40:48Calm morning,
40:49Latik.
40:49Oh.
40:50Stressful morning,
40:51black.
40:51Just give me black.
40:52I just need to
40:53down it.
40:54One book that has
40:55completely changed
40:55how you think about
40:56leadership.
40:58Algebra of Happiness
40:59by Professor Scott
41:01Galloway.
41:02Okay.
41:02I don't know this book.
41:03Maybe I know this is
41:04supposed to be rapid
41:04fire, but tell us
41:05about this book.
41:06Okay.
41:06First of all,
41:07Scott Galloway is this
41:08NY Houston
41:09professor of business.
41:12He is a
41:13multimillionaire.
41:14He is
41:15he started
41:16a few firms
41:18back in Silicon
41:18Valley
41:19and
41:20exited most of it.
41:22He's now
41:22an entrepreneur,
41:23sorry,
41:24a philanthropist
41:24and investor
41:25and a lecturer.
41:27Okay.
41:28He has written
41:29a few books,
41:29but the one that
41:30really struck me
41:31the most is
41:31the algebra of
41:32happiness
41:32because he
41:33quantified
41:35subjectivity.
41:37He gave us
41:38a mathematical
41:38model to be
41:40happy.
41:41Wow.
41:41I won't tell you
41:43what is it.
41:44You have to
41:44get the book
41:45and buy it.
41:46It's everywhere.
41:47It's inside
41:47whatever.
41:48There is an
41:50equation for
41:51happiness.
41:52And this,
41:52he calls it
41:53the algebra
41:53of happiness.
41:54Okay.
41:55And
41:56it was a
41:58pretty tough
41:58time for me.
41:59I just got
42:00out of a
42:01long
42:01marriage.
42:03I was in
42:04marriage for
42:0418 years
42:05and
42:05we had to
42:07there was
42:09no way
42:09forward.
42:10We
42:10terminated
42:11it.
42:11So it
42:11was a
42:11very rough
42:12patch of
42:13my life
42:14at that
42:14point in
42:14time.
42:15And I
42:16wanted to
42:17see how
42:17I can be
42:18happy.
42:19And that
42:20book actually
42:21helped me
42:22out in
42:22terms of
42:23trying to
42:23sort out
42:24how I
42:25can be
42:25happy.
42:26So that
42:26question of
42:27yours,
42:27the rapid
42:27five question
42:28is about
42:29that.
42:29It quantified
42:30the subjectivity
42:31of what it
42:32takes to be
42:33happy.
42:33The book is
42:34The Algebra
42:34of Happiness
42:35by Scott
42:36Galloway.
42:37Got it.
42:37All right.
42:38I'm going to
42:39make a note
42:39of it right
42:39now.
42:40Yeah,
42:40you should.
42:41Bring the
42:41calculator with
42:42me as I
42:42read that
42:42book.
42:43Okay.
42:45A single
42:45trait you
42:46think defines
42:47the Malaysian
42:47spirit?
42:49Togetherness.
42:50Hmm.
42:51Nice.
42:51And the
42:52best advice
42:52you've ever
42:53received in
42:54your career?
42:57If you're
42:58the idiot
42:59in the
42:59room,
43:00the only
43:01way left
43:02is up.
43:04Oh.
43:05Wow.
43:06I love
43:06that.
43:07Okay.
43:07And now
43:08the final
43:08question we
43:09have for
43:09you.
43:09Guess who
43:10told me
43:10this?
43:10Oh.
43:13Nuriza.
43:14Nuriza.
43:15Right.
43:16Stranger.
43:19If you
43:19are the
43:20idiot in
43:20the room,
43:20the only
43:21way is
43:21up.
43:23Wow.
43:23And she
43:23told me
43:24this when
43:24I was 24
43:25years old,
43:25you know.
43:25That's amazing.
43:26So two
43:26years ago.
43:27Two years
43:27ago,
43:28yes,
43:28my friend.
43:29And we
43:30still had
43:30hair.
43:31Yes.
43:32People might
43:33confuse us
43:33in this interview.
43:34Who's the
43:35interviewer and
43:35who's the
43:35interviewee?
43:36Okay.
43:37Final question
43:38that we ask
43:39all of our
43:39guests is our
43:40signature question,
43:40which is,
43:41if you had
43:42the opportunity
43:43to make
43:43one change
43:45as Prime
43:46Minister of
43:46Malaysia
43:46for a
43:48day,
43:49not that the
43:49change would
43:50be for a
43:50day,
43:50you're Prime
43:51Minister for
43:51a day,
43:52what would
43:52it be and
43:53why?
43:53address urban
44:00poverty
44:01because urban
44:04poor is the
44:06least resourced
44:07community in
44:09the country.
44:11If you talk
44:12about rural
44:13poor,
44:14monetary-wise,
44:15they're poor.
44:16But they have
44:18land,
44:18they have
44:19resources,
44:19they have,
44:20you know,
44:21plants,
44:22vegetables,
44:22ulam to
44:23makan,
44:23they can
44:24steal somebody's
44:25chicken,
44:25egg and
44:26they can
44:26feed themselves.
44:27Urban poor,
44:28if you have
44:28no money,
44:29most of the
44:29time,
44:29game over.
44:30Right.
44:31So if I was
44:32the Prime
44:32Minister for
44:32a day,
44:33I would
44:33address urban
44:35poverty.
44:37And by
44:38the way,
44:38if you look
44:39at the
44:39UN research,
44:41the malnutrition
44:42for urban
44:43poor children,
44:44stunting growth
44:45is the
44:45highest,
44:46actually.
44:47Stunted
44:47growth amongst
44:48children in
44:48Malaysia is the
44:49highest amongst
44:50urban poor.
44:51Ibrahim Saini,
44:51you're the only
44:52person we
44:52interview who
44:53will end a
44:53conversation or
44:55an interview with
44:56starting something
44:56new to talk
44:57about.
44:58It feels like
44:59you're beginning
45:00a whole new
45:00conversation now.
45:02We thought we
45:06were going to
45:06wrap it up here,
45:07which we still
45:07have to.
45:08But now you're
45:08just starting a
45:09whole new issue
45:11that we feel
45:11that we need to
45:11discuss further.
45:12Maybe the next
45:13time we have
45:14you back.
45:14Thank you so
45:16much to CEO
45:16of Yayasan
45:17Peneraju.
45:18Thank you very
45:18much for inviting
45:18me over,
45:19Terry.
45:19Always a pleasure,
45:20man.
45:21And we'll see
45:21you in the next
45:22episode of
45:22Life Confessions.
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