- 3 months ago
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00:00Dimebag would have been awesome on TikTok, any of those things.
00:04He was kind of the original vlogger to begin with.
00:06My early bands, we all carried cameras around just because we wanted to be like Pantera.
00:12Rock, metal, frog, and everything in between.
00:15Welcome to this episode of Talkin' Rock with Meltdown.
00:19Don't forget to follow the audio-only Talkin' Rock podcast on all podcast platforms.
00:24And now, it's time for today's conversation.
00:27Here's Meltdown.
00:28How you doing, man?
00:29See ya.
00:29I'm doing well, man.
00:31Nice to see you.
00:32Have you had anybody interview you on your own podcast before?
00:35Ooh, on my own podcast?
00:37I don't.
00:39Well, yeah.
00:40Actually, yeah, because when I was doing NewPod for Knotfest, my co-host at the time interviewed me because of, obviously, the Primer 55 angle.
00:50So, yeah, in kind of a weird way, I think maybe once it's happened.
00:54That's right.
00:55So, yeah, I forgot all about that.
00:56So, yeah, you did the stuff for Knotfest.
00:59And the artists just come over.
01:01Did you know you were interviewing beforehand?
01:04Yeah.
01:04Yeah, even with that show and everything on Knotfest, I still booked myself.
01:10So, yeah, it was Knotfest by name, me by everything behind the scenes.
01:17Yeah, because I've been to places like, you know, when it used to be Rockin' the Range and whatnot.
01:21And sometimes, you know, you're like, they come up to you real fast and go, hey, can you interview so-and-so?
01:26And you're like, oh, yeah, no, yeah, I've definitely been there.
01:28Yeah, and it's like, then you got to kind of start pulling stuff out of your ass.
01:31But how many episodes have you done of a Talk To Me?
01:33Um, roughly 500 and something.
01:38Like, I lost count a long time ago when I stopped, you know, I stopped a long time ago doing episode 381, blah, blah, blah.
01:46And I just started naming them, you know, whatever the guest was.
01:50And I think there's like 550-something uploads.
01:53But that's still like, you know, that's short stuff, that's specials, that's, you know, things here and there.
01:58So, yeah, about 550, I would say.
02:00Yeah, and I'll ask you the same questions everybody asks me.
02:03Who are the worst people interviewing?
02:06I get that all the time.
02:08You don't have to answer that question.
02:09I'm just teasing.
02:09No, I mean, you know, the only, you know, the only, like, real thing I've noticed over the years, and I'll keep it vague.
02:16But, like, the pros, pros, like, you know, if you have an interview set up with them at 2 o'clock, they show up at 2 o'clock, they give you a good 30 minutes, and they're gone, you know, or however long you have with them.
02:28They don't, they're not late, they're not yes, no, maybe, you know, giving short answers.
02:33They do try to tend to give good answers.
02:35And it's funny, like, the bigger the artist, be it a David Ellefson or somebody, you know, will come in, give you great conversation, and then get right out in there a lot of time.
02:45And some of the younger bands kind of coming up, they're late, they forgot what time it was, they forgot this, can we reschedule, you know, and sometimes I look at it, I'm like, that's why you guys stay at that level.
02:57Like, you're just not a pro when it comes to even just stupid stuff like my podcast or whatever, you know, no matter who it was, Jason Newstead, boom, he popped up at whatever allotted time.
03:06He gave me an hour.
03:07At the end of the hour, he was like, thank you for your time, and he moved on.
03:10So, I mean, like, I think that's a lesson that maybe younger bands can learn is be pro, have some good stories, have some good stories ready to go, even if the interviewer may or may not ask you about them.
03:22You know, weave them in, make it interesting, make it fun for everybody.
03:25Yeah, I find that some of the, you talk about some of the pros and some of the guys that have been around, like the Alice Coopers and the Gene Simmons, David Carvedales, even like Rob Helford's, you can ask them a question, and they may not answer the question, but they will give you an answer.
03:39Right.
03:40But, you know, and, you know, that's, you know, we met through David Elfson and whatnot, and it's funny interviewing him over the years, and that's how the David Elfson show came about, because I just, at the end of our interview, I'm like, dude, you need your own podcast.
03:52I was like, you know, he's a great talker, he's a great storyteller, every time he says anything, you know, he gets blabbermouth, he gets, you know, all the metal sites, I'm like, dude, you need those clicks for yourself, and he sat there for a second in a very David Elfson way and goes, all right, let's do this, and I was just like, all right, well, I guess I'm doing a podcast with David Elfson now, and I went upstairs, and my wife always asked me, she was like, how was the interview, even though she may or may not know who I'm interviewing, and I just kind of looked at her and I go, I think I have a podcast with David Elfson now, and, you know,
04:21and what's great is, you know, I kind of pitched him on an idea of, kind of know what we're doing now, of like a 20-minute, you know, he could talk about whatever he's doing, bass story, or Kings of Thrash, or, you know, plug the coffee, or the basses, or something, and then maybe do like a quick story about a certain Megadeth song, or something.
04:41It was going to be quick, like 20 minutes, he could just call in from the road or wherever he was, and it immediately went to, hey, we should interview people, and we should do this, and we should do that, and, you know, hour episodes later, two hour episodes later, you know, he's fully invested in being a podcaster, it's a lot of fun, man.
04:59Yeah, and it's cool, because he's only got 87 other things that he's doing, so, you know.
05:04Right, but it's great, but he makes time, you know, we've, I don't know if you've ever had a co-host or really dealt with that, but, you know, they can kind of be a pain in the butt, you know, trying to, hey, can you record on Tuesday night with this certain person?
05:18Oh, I've got soccer, you know, my kids have soccer, you know, just anything going on, you know, with David.
05:23He's like, you know, we've done episodes where, like, the guest is in California, I'm in, you know, the southern Indiana, Louisville area, David's in Germany, you know, it's just like, you know, and we're coordinating, you know, time zones across the world, and it's crazy how everything's kind of coming together with that.
05:42Yeah, no, it's good as, we live in a different, you know, world.
05:44I'm a lot older than you, and when I started doing this business and stuff, it's like, first of all, I did interviews live on the air.
05:51I remember, I interviewed Lars from Metallica live on the air one time, and that's another story for another time, but then, of course, it went to audio, and now you've got the video component and all this other stuff, but, you know what, it's fun, and you get to reach out to people, and in a weird way, you become part of the community that you wanted to be part of growing up.
06:10Now, I don't play a lick of an instrument, but I guess in some weird way, I'm a small part of the rock community, you know?
06:16Oh, yeah.
06:16Yeah, like, it's been fun kind of just being on that side for so long, because, you know, in all honesty, I never, ever thought that Primer 55 would ever get back together, you know, obviously with our singer passing away, and our guitar player had some health issues there for a little while, and so I was just like, you know, I'll probably never play live again in a band situation like that, because, you know, I'm in my mid-40s now, and I'm like, the thought of, like, starting a band right now sounds crazy.
06:44But, you know, I've done some stuff, you know, like jam nights and things like that, you know, I've gotten up and done those, and those do kind of, you know, scratch that itch to get on stage and play some songs and do some things here and there, but, yeah, just getting back on stage after all these years is wild.
07:02But, you know, being, you know, in the metal media world, you know, you're on Blabbermouth constantly, I'm sure you've seen my stuff constantly on there too, you know, and it's like, and that's been kind of fun, and it's kind of hard to kind of compartmentalize, like, on this side, I'm a, you know, member of the media, and on this side, I'm a member of a band, and it's kind of wild to kind of live in both of those worlds, and kind of, you know, now I kind of have to really worry about what I say.
07:32or who I talk about, because, you know, maybe we get offered a tour with those guys, and I have to, like, and, you know, there's been a few, like, they've talked about, you know, hey, what would you guys think about touring with this band, and I really have to rack my brain, and I'm like, have I ever talked, you know, bad about them on my podcast over the years, you know, like, I have to really, like, think, I was like, do I need to go back and delete anything?
07:50So, yeah, it's been fun kind of being in both worlds, and, you know, just kind of getting to be in the media world, because, I mean, as a kid, you know, I'm always going to be a fan, like, I'm fan first, and then whatever comes after that, it's gravy.
08:07So, you know, growing up, reading Metal Edge and Metal Maniacs, and, you know, just reading anything I could get my hands on, and then, you know, watching Headbangers Ball, and just diving into all that stuff, and then now, you know, getting to interview Ricky Rackman.
08:21And, you know, some of those interviews, I know, you know, people love or hate Ricky Rackman, but, I mean, to me, I mean, he was, I was 12, 13, 14 when Headbangers, when he was on Headbangers Ball, so, like, that was, like, he was the coolest dude ever, so, you know, I know he downplays his mark in the music world, but, man, I mean, those Headbangers Balls were influential for me, you know, I mean, that's where I found out about Pantera, that's where I found out about a bunch of bands.
08:48So, yeah, it's been cool to kind of be able to interview the heroes, you know, be it media, be it music, and whatnot, so it's been a fun time.
08:56Yeah, it's funny when I get a text message that says, like, do you want to interview Ellis Cooper? I'm like, is this even, is this a real question?
09:03Right.
09:05It's like, no, I'm going to pass, I'm going to pass, but, no, it's crazy, like, where my world is coming, and yours as well.
09:13Hey, how'd the shows go so far that you guys have done?
09:15Dude, honestly, it's been wild. Like, I joined the band in 2002, we did, you know, some good touring back then, we kind of, like, reformed in, like, 2007, when they put out, like, a B-Sides record, and, like, nobody cared.
09:31Like, nobody, like, the shows were sparse, and it was kind of, you know, just kind of at a downturn, you know, the nostalgia factor hadn't kicked in yet, you know, everybody kind of moved on to, like, metalcore and things like that, you know, musically.
09:45And so, when it came time to do these shows, I had kind of been bugging our guitar player for a few years. I'm like, because I'm in it. I'm in it every day. I'm interviewing bands.
10:00You know, as soon as pre-interview, post-interview, they're always like, dude, I listened to Primer 55 in middle school, and, you know, you're just kind of seeing that era of bands coming back around again, and then I start seeing, you know, Spine Shank and The Union Underground and Dry Kill Logic on Rockville and Louder Than Life.
10:18And I'm like, you know, I was like, Primer was right in all that. I was like, we should do something.
10:22And then finally, you know, Bobby had some health stuff, and he came out the other side with that, and he was like, it was basically like, all right, man, let's do a show.
10:31And I was like, all right, well, if we do it, you know, I was like, let's find a booking agent.
10:35And through the podcast and just through talking with people, I reached out to Mikey Doling of Snot and said, you know, Hayes, who's booking your shows?
10:45Because similar situation, you know, a band of that era, Singers Pass Away, coming back around, you know, like there were a lot of kind of similarities to Snot and Primer 55.
10:55And he hit me up with the booking agent. I kind of cold emailed him and said, hey, you know, would you want to book a Primer 55 25th anniversary show of the first record?
11:06A, he might not know who we are, or B, you know, he might be into it. And luckily it was B.
11:11So A show turned into like eight shows in nine days, which turned into we're about to leave and go do a month with Smile Empty Soul, which is going to be crazy.
11:22We just announced some December shows. We, the dates haven't been announced, but a South America run with Il Nino and Head P.E. was just announced.
11:32We got announced for Welcome to Rockville. It's just like every day, like my email or my text messages or something is just blowing my mind.
11:41But, and back to just the original, you know, the original first run of shows, we were kind of curious to see who would come out to these shows, what the reception would be like.
11:50And even down to when we were talking about merch, I was like, I was like, man, we're just going to need like large through like 4X t-shirts because, you know, everybody's older now.
12:01Everybody needs a bigger t-shirt. And our, and, and Bobby was like, no, man, let's get, you know, we need smalls and mediums and, you know, for the kids.
12:07And I'm like, there's not going to be kids at these shows. And it was, it was 50, 50.
12:12It was teenagers, people in middle school, high school. Like it was the weirdest thing because you would walk out and there would be, the whole front would be young kids singing deep cuts of the first record.
12:26And I'm like, I'm like, I want to stop the show and be like, how did you guys find this band?
12:31Like what, what, what part of the internet are you guys on to find Primer 55 in 2025?
12:37And, and, and, and, you know, when I was a kid, when I was 15, 16 years old, you know, back to David Ellison, you know, I was, I was a, a kid that hung around the buses and waited all day and, you know, and, you know, hours upon hours just to see like a glimpse of, of somebody cool.
12:54And, and like, I, I caught a few kids doing that, this run. Like I walked out to go grab some food when we were in Texas and a couple of kids standing outside and I could just see it on their faces.
13:07Like they were pumped to see me. And I was just like, what? So I stopped and I was like, well, I like, I kind of like nodded at them and said, hello. And I kept walking. And then I'm like, dude, turn around and go talk to those kids.
13:19And I got, you know, not that I was like big time, big timing them or anything. I just, I initiated the conversation and they were, you know, 14, 15 year old kids standing outside the venue, hoping to get stuff signed.
13:32And I was just like, you know, what world are we living in that, you know, people are, are pumped to see this band again.
13:39No, that's great, man. And, uh, the, the, the tour, like you mentioned, starts up again, coming up Saturday at the machine shop, uh, which is kind of insane to say, but it's my,
13:48that's my 30th anniversary at this radio station. Yeah. I saw that, man. That's wild saying. Right. So, uh, but anyways, then this, the second night,
13:56you guys are going to be in Cadillac and of course, you're talking about Ellison. Are you going to go see the kiss monument at the school?
14:02Yeah, absolutely. As soon as I saw the tour dates, you know, come through, I saw Cadillac and I was like, well, I, I mean, I was like,
14:08I guess the football team's having a tough time and they need us to come up there and, uh, you know, uh, you know, boost their spirits or whatnot.
14:15Uh, but yeah, man, I'll, I'll definitely, I'm a massive kiss fan. Um, one of the reasons I, you know, play, play any instrument is because of Ace Frehley, rest in peace.
14:23And, uh, yeah. So, so yeah, I will be actually, when I just saw Ellison a couple of days ago and we talked about that, I was like, how far is the, uh, you know,
14:31the Cadillac, uh, you know, Memorial or whatever, uh, from the venue. And he's like, dude, he's like five minutes. I was like, all right, I'm going, I've got to, I've got to go to that.
14:40I may have to meet you guys up there. Cause I was telling him that I was going to go up for the, all the anniversary stuff in the beginning of October.
14:46And I had these computer issues and I couldn't bust out of my house early enough on that Saturday, but it's about a three hour drive from me.
14:52So if I can get my stuff done, I may have to make the trek up there because I've never been up there either to, to check it out.
14:58And of course, you know, at the passing of Ace, I saw David's picture. They got like flowers and stuff around the Memorial now too.
15:04So yeah, this whole, this again, you know, I said like, you know, this, this was supposed to be one show and now like I'm planning on going to Cadillac, Michigan to see the, uh, you know, 50th anniversary of them playing up there kind of Memorials and things like that.
15:19So yeah, it's, it's definitely, it's definitely, I'm, I'm like in a definite pinch me mode and, and, you know, back to the, the, the David Ellison show and things like that.
15:29I had, I had talked to my wife late last year and, you know, just, I don't know if you get this way.
15:35I get, you know, kind of not burnout, but just kind of like, you know what, you know, I'm going to take some time off.
15:39I'm going to do something else. And 10 years of the podcast, you know, it's, it's been fun.
15:45You know, I got paid well from not fast. You know, we get, we get, uh, it's, it's fun to get blabber mouth headlines and you know, the craziest, they, they pull the craziest stuff they can find from our shows and things like that.
15:56And I was just like, I was like 10 years, a good round number. Uh, I just hit it back in September.
16:02So I was like, I was like, I'll make it to 10 years of the podcast, go off into the sunset and say, thank you. Good night.
16:08And I just happened to back in January, ask David if he wants to do it, to do a podcast.
16:14And I was like, all right, well, that's bringing me back in. And then Bobby pops up and he's like, Hey, do you want to do some shows?
16:19I'm like, well, I guess that's bringing me back in. Like I was trying to quit all of this.
16:24And like, now I'm doing more than I've done in 30 years, you know, like out of nowhere.
16:29Now, you know, um, D Sutter talked about this, you know, with the passion of Ozzy and whatnot.
16:33And he thought, you know, I'm going to put the band back together.
16:35Do you think that that might have something to do with, uh, with Bobby trying to, trying to get things back together as well after getting a scare like that?
16:41Um, I would think so. I think that I would hope so. I mean, I would, you know, that, that would kind of show everybody kind of everybody's mortality and things like that.
16:52But I mean, you know, he was also not, you know, like I said, I was kind of in, in the trenches and saying all of the new metal stuff kind of coming back.
16:59And, and I don't think he was seeing that on a daily basis like I was. So I think he was more hesitant going out on these last shows than I was because I, I, I assumed there were going to be people there because the, you know, the, the, the groundswell of this band over the years, the undergroundness of the bands kind of, kind of coming to a point where people were wanting to check it out again.
17:20And I don't know if Bobby was seeing that as much as I was. So he was, I think he was, you know, tepid to go out, but I mean, we, we had to order reorder merch two days into the tour.
17:32Like we were like, we are going to run out. And like, I had to call my guy and, you know, get another a hundred shirts overnighted to, to another club so that we could, you know, so that we didn't run out of merch by the end of the end of the run.
17:43Like, I mean, you know, the shows were very well attended and everybody was buying shirts and posters and stickers and just everything else. It was, this is the best, I'm not going to say version of the band because obviously with Jason passing that, you know, that we'll never have that back, but this is the best like business version of the band because, you know, 20 years ago we were all drinking and doing whatever and not focusing on the business side of it.
18:13You know, we were all chasing ladies and all that nonsense. And so like this time we're all married men going out going, all right, we can, you know, uh, treat this as a proper, proper, uh, you know, touring business and, you know, make a few bucks, but also just have a good time and, and, and, and just, just really bask in what's going on.
18:33So, so yeah, I think Bobby had the health scare and, you know, Hey, let's try it one more time. Let's see what happens. And, and I know from just the talks that we've all had, you know, the band sat down after the last show and just, we all looked at each other.
18:49Like what just happened? Like that, that was good. Like none of us expected the fanfare and the kids and the singing along and the merch sales and just, just everything, everything was so positive for this first run.
19:03So I'm excited to see what happens with this run with smile empty soul.
19:07Well, I'll tell you what, you're starting off at a great place. Have you played at the machine shop before?
19:10Yeah, we actually played there. I think in Oh two, I would assume it was a very, like, I think the venue opened in Oh two, but I think it was pretty close. Yeah.
19:18Yeah. Yeah. We, uh, we played there, uh, like November of Oh two. Um, and then I, technically we were supposed to play there, uh, in 2007, but that's like our, that was like, I think that was the first show after our singer just left the band.
19:36So we were just, he left us mid tour and we were just kind of like, uh, well, I guess I remember we went to the show, but we didn't play the show.
19:45But yeah, I've been in the machine shop a couple of times and obviously of, of, of all venues in, you know, small towns for that one to be so like world famous, like just, you know, everybody's always wearing the shirts.
19:59You know, every show there's seems to be sold out. It's like, it's like, it's like such a, such a hub for music to be, you know, kind of a sub, what is, is Flint technically a suburb of Detroit?
20:10Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's an hour away, you know, it's okay. Yeah. But, uh, but you know, you, you talk about, uh, people wearing the shirts. I don't know if you noticed or not, but, uh, I know you're a Pantera fan. I see your Cowboys from hell tattoo and your Pantera guys.
20:24Uh, Vinnie Paul was buried in a machine shop shirt. Did you know that?
20:27Oh, wow. I did not know that. Wow.
20:29Yeah. VP. Uh, he was, uh, yeah, he was a good dude. When you go in there, uh, you can see some of, uh, they've got some, uh, some hell yeah stuff on the wall and Kevin's office that you can check out. But, uh, yeah. So what, what did you discover Pantera?
20:44Um, I, I got into them, you know, maybe technically a little late. It was the, uh, it was actually a headbangers ball. They did a special on far beyond driven. I would have been 15, um, at the time.
20:57Um, and I, I just like, I, I watched them. I, you know, I, I used to tape headbangers ball like every week and then just watch it constantly through the week and watch the videos and the interviews.
21:08And, and they did a whole special where, you know, Ricky and those guys went down to the Texas stadium and they're kicking field goals and, and it's just something about like, obviously the music's great, but the guys themselves were so much fun.
21:20You know, I, I've said so many times on my podcast over the years, like Dimebag would have been awesome on, you know, Instagram reels and Tik TOK and things like, like if you would have gave Dimebag, you know, vine or any of that, any of those things, like he would have, he would have been just loving life.
21:36Because I mean, he was kind of the original vlogger to begin with, you know, and like with the vulgar videos and things like that.
21:43And so, you know, I have to thank him for, you know, my early bands, you know, pre primer, like we all carried cameras around just because we wanted to be like Pantera.
21:51So I have so much footage of me at like 18, 19 years old, playing these crappy bars and things like that because of Pantera, because we thought, you know, we're going to document all this stuff and make fun videos and things like that.
22:06So, yeah, I got into them.
22:08I, it was like the weekend that, that far beyond driven came out.
22:11Um, and then I got to meet them, uh, doing the, you know, like I said, kind of stalking the buses thing, uh, 1994, I'm 15 years old.
22:23Um, we saw big Val in the hotel part in the hotel lobby and you knew all of the Pantera crew because of the videos.
22:32So we walk up to him and he's like, he's like, you guys be cool and they'll be cool and all this other stuff.
22:38So finally I went into the bathroom and my friend busted open the door.
22:42He's like, dime bags, checking out of the lobby right now.
22:44And, you know, I turned the corner and I saw the big pink beard and, um, you know, we went and got photos and thank God, a friend of mine back then used to carry one of those like 35 millimeter cameras around with him.
22:55And then like, I have so many cool photos from back then, obviously pre, you know, camera phone and all that stuff.
23:01So luckily he carried a camera and I have, I have photos with me and Vinnie Paul and dime bag and Rex and Phil and, and just everybody from back then.
23:10And, uh, and so, yeah, I got to meet him then.
23:13And I met him throughout the years up until I, I damage plan came through Louisville where I live now.
23:21And I almost didn't go to the show.
23:23I wasn't the biggest damage plan fan.
23:26Um, a friend of mine had like an extra ticket and he's like, you know, come out to the show.
23:31Let's have some fun.
23:32And, uh, and so we go to the show.
23:34It's a great show.
23:35They actually closed with walk in a new level.
23:38And, you know, they, they said something, I remember dime said something like, you know, we're not the reason that we're not playing these songs for you or something like, you know, just kind of throwing some shade of Phil and, and, and all that stuff.
23:48And, and as we were leaving, I look over and I see a crowd of people and they're all standing around dime.
23:53And, uh, you know, um, this is 10 years later, almost, almost to the exact day.
23:57It was August 94.
23:58When I first met him, August, 2004, when I last saw him, I had this really weird closure conversation.
24:06I'd already toured in primer.
24:08Um, I almost, I thanked them, you know, I was like, thanks for the inspiration.
24:11I got, you know, I kind of told him what I had done.
24:13And he was like, oh man, that's awesome.
24:15Blah, blah, blah.
24:15And like had a really cool closure kind of conversation.
24:18And then a couple of months later, he was, he was taken from us, man.
24:21So, but, uh, but yeah, I, you know, dime bag, I probably met him, you know, 10 times over the years.
24:26And for me being a little kid up to my early twenties, man, he could not have been nicer and welcoming and cool to, to everybody around us, including myself.
24:36Yeah.
24:37I'm lucky.
24:38You know, there's, there's a, there's a whole generation of people out there, uh, that have never seen and never will see Pantera.
24:43I mean, you know, Zach's out there and Charlie and I'm not taking anything from those guys, but you know what I'm talking about.
24:47And it's like, uh, I saw him and I got to interview him as well.
24:51I interviewed, you know, them, those guys, I think in January of, uh, Oh four.
24:55So they, they were just, uh, kind of starting out with the damage plan thing.
24:59And, uh, then the last time I saw Vinny is actually pinned on my Twitter, my ex.
25:03Cause I just can't seem to, I just can't seem to take it off.
25:06But it's like, you know, we were in Vegas and, uh, you know, Vinny had been over-served a little bit.
25:11Nice.
25:12And it was his idea to start a video.
25:14So I was like, all right, let's start a video.
25:15And so, you know, but yeah.
25:17The last time I, last time I talked to Vinny, um, I, I grew up, I grew up around Chris Kale from Five Finger Death Punch.
25:24Like, yeah, we played, uh, you know, we played a ton of shows together back in the day and actually, even in one of my early bands, like when I left to go to Primer, he actually took my spot in my old band.
25:36And then, um, obviously kept in touch.
25:38He was the best, you know, the best man at my first wedding, things like that.
25:41So like he, you know, we've been very close over the years.
25:45And, uh, so, you know, I texted him one day.
25:47I was like, Hey man, do you know anybody, you know, with hell?
25:49Yeah.
25:49So I could go to the show and he's like, just go with me.
25:52And I'm like, all right, he was, he happened to be in Louisville at the time.
25:55You know, we go back and, and Vinny's after the show, Vinny's holding court downstairs, telling all these great stories.
26:01It was right after they played a rock on the range.
26:04Uh, that was the first time he had been back to Columbus, Ohio.
26:07And so he was talking about how he was, he was almost more annoyed by everybody asking him how he was that day, rather than obviously being in Columbus, Ohio, because he, he, he, he said, yes, it was hard.
26:22But it was also awful because everybody that he saw, he's like, you're doing okay today.
26:27Everybody okay.
26:27You know, he was, he was almost annoyed with everybody talking to him.
26:30But so, so yeah, I mean, I, I got a, I got a nice chat with him, you know, right before he, you know, maybe a year or two before he passed too.
26:36So, uh, and, and again, you know, Vinny was always great to me too.
26:41Yeah.
26:41He was great.
26:42He used, he used to text me all the time about hockey.
26:44That was, that was, that was our thing.
26:46And that's a, that's another story for another time.
26:48Well, listen, Joshua, great to, I'll make your acquaintance.
26:51So we're going to push everybody towards the machine shop coming up on Saturday.
26:53As I record, this was smile, empty soul, the 25th anniversary, uh, celebration, the introduction to mayhem with a primer 55.
27:02And, uh, thanks for, uh, thanks for taking the time and continued success.
27:05All right.
27:05Maybe, maybe we'll see you Sunday up in Cadillac.
27:08There we go.
27:09It's going to be good times, man.
27:10Thanks for having me.
27:11This has been great.
27:12Thanks for having me.
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