- 3 months ago
In this edition of Democratic Newsroom, the big talking point is the freebies that are being announced by political parties in the run-up to the upcoming Bihar Assembly elections.
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00:00Hello and welcome to yet another edition of the Democratic Newsroom. I'm Freeti Chaudhary and the topic of discussion in this edition of Democratic Newsroom has to be freebies.
00:12Well, it's poll season. Bihar is going into election and whether you call it freebies, you call it political sobs, you call it reverie, it's been raining freebies in Bihar.
00:22So what we're going to discuss, freebies, actual benefits or pure bribes. Let me quickly cut across to our panel this evening.
00:32I have Rajdeep Sardisai, Consulting Editor. I have a Senior Managing Editor, Gaurav Savant. I have Akshita who also will put a lens on the south because Akshita had all started in the year 1967 where the DMK offered 1 rupee, 1 kilo rice.
00:48And imagine what it's come down to where Moshmi was in Bihar just a week ago and Moshmi, it's now competitive populism in Bihar. But Rajdeep, would you want to take it first?
00:59Look, I think you've got to make two or three important distinctions. One, I think if it is a public good, you cannot treat it as a bribe.
01:13If it is a direct cash transfer, which is completely unaudited, done just before the election, a question will be raised.
01:20You give 1500 rupees, for example, in Maharashtra under Ladki Bain, is that a bribe or is that welfarism?
01:28If you provide a child education, is that a bribe or is it, as I see it, a public good, which is welfarism?
01:35Let's make a distinction between what is public good and welfarism and what is rave-dee or a freebie.
01:41I think it's an important distinction to make. We can't lump it all and say whatever the government does becomes a bribe.
01:47And I do believe that one person's rave-dee could be another person's welfarism.
01:53I'll give you an example in Bihar. 20 years ago, I remember going there, Nitish Kumar was distributing cycles.
01:58Many people were saying, cycles for young girls. People said, it changed the lives of so many girls, many of whom today are voters, gave them an opportunity to go to school.
02:11Take a look at what's even happened with free bus rides in Karnataka. Many women feel it's hugely empowering.
02:17Take a look at what Mamata Bainerji has done with Kanyashree.
02:20The girls' enrollment in schools has risen substantially. Or indeed, even in the Ladki Bahind scheme.
02:29Just to give some context to it, I remember in Kolapur, telling one of the women,
02:36Arie, sir, karni, tumalak bribe di liye, rishwat diya hai aapko.
02:40Immediately, that lady turned out to be, kai sir, humko pandra so rupay mil gaya, aap rishwat kehte hai,
02:45yeh bade bade neta pandra so korod bana te hunka kya. So it's a distinction. You see, it's very easy for us to call what is given to people as a bribe
02:56and not distinguish it from what could be welfarism. That's one point. And the last point that I would make is,
03:05I think there should be a proper audit of this. My problem is, when you give just before an election,
03:10whether it's a promise that I'll provide every household a job, which is unrealistic, you're not
03:16going to be able to provide in BR 2.7 crore jobs as Tejasvi is promising, nor are you going to do this
03:2210,000 rupees you're giving for self-employment of women under Jivika Didi. Where is the audit?
03:28Will there be an audit after the election? Where did that 10,000 rupees go? If there is a proper audit,
03:34by all means, I think that should be made public. And then we can decide whether that was a bribe
03:38or change the lives of a family. But I am therefore reluctant to, you know, bracket something
03:45as a bribe or something as welfarism. I'll even tell you color TV in Akshita state. I thought
03:50color TV is a straight bribe. Ladies who I met, sir, you know, in Tamil, they said it made
03:58a huge difference to their lives. Mixes, grinders. So I guess when you are in a low-income country
04:04like India, it's not so easy to make these distinctions so easy. But where do you draw
04:09the line? Because somewhere down the line, when it comes to freebies or welfarism, you
04:13need to draw a very hard line. Gaurav, what's your opinion? It's a great idea. If you help
04:18people, it helps them in whichever way possible, that it brings them up to some level. I know
04:24of people who've benefited, even if it's just 3,000 rupees that's given to them, that 3,000
04:29helps them. You know that people have objected to food being given to people and India with
04:35great pride says 800 million people are being fed. At least they're not spending that money
04:39on food. They can spend whatever money they have for other things and improve their life.
04:45So you may call it freebies. You may call it raivadi. If it helps those in need, it's a great
04:52idea. You know, unfortunately, we only complain about or many complain about this money that's
04:59given to the poor and the needy. When corporates, you know, whether it's Kingfisher Airlines and
05:06you know, crores and crores are written off and they siphon off money and live overseas,
05:11that's the real scam that needs to be checked. Whether it's a Vijay Mali or a Mehul Choksi would
05:16take away some 8,700 crores and that's kind of written off at times. That is what needs to
05:22be checked. This is a very good idea to help people. You know, I'm going to bring in Akshita,
05:26but what I really do believe in, how do you draw a really hard line? I think direct cash
05:30transfers need to end in this country. I think that's lazy politics and we only encourage it.
05:35And why I say that, but I'm telling you why I say that, is because what is welfarism and
05:41what is freebies? When you do a direct cash transfer, it's, I feel, it's a freebie and
05:47in the long run, somewhere down the line, each state will stop spending less, capital expenditure
05:52will be less on essentials like education, like health, like infrastructure, which we've
05:58seen time and again in every state. And I'll give you an example. You had somebody, the
06:02chief minister of Telangana who said exactly this, that I don't have enough to spend on
06:06basics like health education because I am covering all the schemes that I was, I had to promise
06:12in the beginning. So what I feel, why can't you link it to a public good? You say, I will
06:20give you a direct cash transfer of so many rupees if your child now goes into class 10. If a girl
06:25child is going into class 10, I will give you and monitor it. How do you draw that line,
06:31Rajiv? Instead, instead, what you do is you make education free for every girl child till
06:36class 10. You do that. You make health. For example, I can give you an example in Tamil Nadu
06:42of the Pudumai Pen scheme, which is a scheme where they gave a financial incentive to girls
06:47in higher education. It's made a huge difference. It's been a game changer, right? And that's
06:52a financial. For higher education, right? You tied it to something. Yes, you've tied it
06:55to something. So it's not a direct cash transfer. No, it's a direct cash transfer into that account.
06:59If you tie it to something, what's the problem? You're saying, don't even do that, ensure free
07:04education. Because I'll tell you why I say that. It's been successful. No, I'll tell you what
07:07really works. It's a formula that's worked. But I'll tell you what really, I feel what
07:10works. Instead of placing money into the hands of voters, for example, when you made bus travel
07:15free in Delhi, which was looked as a ravery by everyone at that point of time, it actually
07:20transformed lives. Because then bus travel was free. Why I feel is, for example, lots of
07:26states have now come up with a health policy. I think that is great. And that is great.
07:30You know, you do that. Make education free till class 10. Because I just feel what
07:34happens is successive governments just get so lazy by placing that amount of money in
07:38people's hands. And it's an immediate reaction. Now you're looking at Bihar, Moshmi, where
07:4360% of Bihar makes less than 10,000 rupees. And then you're transferring in one tranche,
07:5010,000 rupees in their bank accounts. How is anyone supposed to make sense of this?
07:55You know, Preeti, it said, give a man a fish and you can save him for a day. And teach him
07:59how to fish. And you can save him for a life. So it's on the skill development that one can
08:05focus. And I think in this all discussion, what is important is the timing of it all.
08:11Why do you get all these freebies during the election season? Even the Supreme Court and
08:16the Election Commission has spoken about it. So you get, I think it tantamounts to bribery.
08:21I have spoken to voters. Vot kharidi. Vot kharidi. That lure. First AAP did it. It's
08:28seduction. DMK did it. Now you do it. You ape it. It's completely.
08:32Actually, DMK started it in 1967. Can I just say that Bihar is very late to the party. All of
08:36these states, in fact. This has been the norm for decades now. And why Bihar is important,
08:41Akshita, is because Bihar was counted as a Bimaru state. You are asking for a special package.
08:47Bihar has just gone down as far as its fiscal deficit is concerned. Its budget has increased
08:5515 times. You are not enabling people. Reporters were sitting and we were calculating around
09:02the table that if all the benefits that are being doled out by the NDA, if one family gets
09:08all those benefits, if you are flood affected, if you have a metric past student, a girl child,
09:15if you have a graduate student, if you have some women entrepreneur, all that money would
09:23add to amount almost about 1.5 lakhs per household. And Rajeev, so will they not use that money?
09:28How do you see a cycle for a girl child? No, will they not use that money to grow?
09:31How do you see a cycle as a... No, cycle for a girl child is transformative.
09:36Good. Okay. I am glad. But this is a challenge. You can draw that hard line.
09:42Then I agree with you. I think we have got to make a distinction, as I said, between public
09:46goods that transform people's lives and what you are giving just before an election in terms
09:51of direct cash. But that's really hard. No, no, one minute. An RTI has just shown from
09:55this month, over 12,000 men in Maharashtra were granted benefits under the Mukhe Mantri,
10:00Mazi, Ladki, Bahin, Yojna. Now, the scheme was exclusively for women. Some men have taken
10:04it. You are now giving it virtually every month. Now, you are stuck in a state like Maharashtra.
10:09Do I give people the opportunity perhaps of investment in development projects in their village
10:15or do I give 1500 rupees? The choice is yours. Governments are taking the shortcut by giving
10:20a direct cash benefit. So, I am making a distinction between a direct cash benefit that's unaudited
10:26and public goods that transform people's lives. Got it. So, the fact that this information
10:31came out that money was going into some men came out of some audit.
10:35Came out of an RTI. Yeah. Through an audit. It cannot be unaudited. Any, you know, the rule
10:41of the land, law of the land is any money that goes out from the government goes into somebody's
10:46account. That money is audited how it's going. It's only when netas start giving out cash like
10:51this, that we've seen images of several netas doing that. That is bribery. This is helping
10:57these people some way or the other. You are giving them cash.
11:00I'll give you an example. Okay, Gaurav, let me give you a counter to this.
11:03This is an aspirational India. I get what you're saying. They want to do better.
11:06They will use this money for something better. They will not sit at home and do nothing.
11:11But I'll tell you, tell me what's the difference, right? Where you have a Pappu Yadav, who says
11:15that I have paid for my property to provide for my constituency. Where you see images of Pappu Yadav
11:21where he's sitting in his car and he's doling out cash. And no matter what, we sit in the studio
11:27and call him various names or various use of being a criminal. But his constituency votes him back
11:33every time. Now, what is the difference between a Pappu Yadav who gives the cash to his constituency,
11:40and it's not that they don't need it. They need it.
11:42So cash forwards versus. But no. But what is a direct cash transfer?
11:46The direct cash transfer. Tell me the difference.
11:49If I give a direct cash transfer linked to certain objective criteria. That's all I'm saying.
11:54Which is what all parties are now doing, right? They're saying this is not a Frabi, not a Ravdi,
11:59not a Nilavasim, which is the word in Tamil. Because they say that, you know, we're linking it to something.
12:03No, no, but Akshita 1500 rupees under Ladki Bahin. Do you classify that as a brand?
12:09Just before the election. Which is my point.
12:11No, one minute. Do you classify that as a brand or a public good?
12:14Why?
12:15It's given straight away. Every woman in the household got it.
12:18More than two crore women got it. If it's election time, it's all a brand.
12:21It was four months before the election. No, I think if you make a classification.
12:24If you make a classification.
12:26If you make a classification.
12:27If it comes into your bank account, will you, if somebody is really fighting poverty or perhaps more so there are people who get the Kisaan Nidhi.
12:37There are landlords and farmers and zamindars who are getting that 2000 Kisaan Nidhi also.
12:43So how do you see Kisaan Nidhi?
12:45Kisaan Nidhi.
12:46Sorry, Kisaan Nidhi.
12:47Nobody touches Kisaan.
12:48Kisaan Nidhi.
12:49You should, the farmers who are actually deserving should get it.
12:52Not farmers.
12:53But this is the classification that everyone can say.
12:54No, no, no.
12:55But that you can't make a classification just here.
12:56Then don't give it.
12:57Because every Kisaan across the country gets everything.
13:00Some rich landlord is exactly what it is.
13:01Every rich landlord also gets every benefit.
13:04There is also a problem in that.
13:08The farmer who owns the land gets it.
13:11But in Bihar, there are many landless people who take the land.
13:18They don't own the land.
13:19They just till it.
13:20And they just harvest the crop.
13:22They don't get that Kisaan Nidhi.
13:24While they are the ones who are farming the crop.
13:27Because they don't own land.
13:28So, they are the real beneficiaries.
13:30That's why with some parties like.
13:32Because, you know, you tap into the lowest common denominator.
13:34And what happens is the likes of Prashant Kishore are actually offering Bhusudhar redistribution of land.
13:40Now, that is a promise which is, you know, which makes you think that, okay, can it even be possible?
13:45Because it's so easy to give that door.
13:47But Gaurav, you know, let me circle.
13:48What about free power?
13:49No, how do you, every government now across this country is giving free power up to 100 units.
13:53Most governments.
13:54But Rajdeep.
13:55Is that a freebie or not?
13:56To me, that's a freebie.
13:58And I'll tell you why.
13:59For me, anything that's given as a sweeping, you know, dole out.
14:02To me, that's a freebie.
14:03I'm very clear.
14:04Make the classification of who needs it.
14:06And then it's a welfare scheme.
14:08Because then you're ensuring upliftment.
14:09So, you're agreeing to what I'm saying.
14:11That who needs it?
14:12Give it to the needy.
14:13100%.
14:14In this country, Rajdeep.
14:15But why I say that?
14:17And God of you can win and Rajdeep can come in.
14:19In this country, yes, we have the marginalized.
14:22But the taxpayers in this country is just about making ends meet.
14:25Right?
14:26So, when you're going to try and have this conversation in the lower middle class household, where they are paying 30%, 20%, 18%, whatever tax that they are paying to the government, will they be comfortable?
14:37Because for them, they've budgeted that 1,200 rupees that you're giving or 1,500 rupees or 2,000 rupees or 2,100 rupees as direct cash transfers.
14:46This is creating a whole lot of resentment.
14:49When you speak to the same lower middle class person who's paying that amount of tax, he doesn't want this money to go as a direct cash transfer.
14:56But he's okay with it if that money is invested in schools.
14:59If there is a health scheme.
15:01He's okay with that.
15:02His reaction changes.
15:04Where is that empirical data to suggest what you are saying?
15:07No, but God of my mind.
15:08That he's okay with this and not okay with that.
15:10Are you okay?
15:11As somebody who's a taxpayer in this country, would you rather that 1,500 rupees just given or would you rather that the lowest common denominator gets access to health and education and we better that infrastructure?
15:24So, I'm not okay with Vijay Malia siphoning off 9,000 crore rupees and running away from my country.
15:29Which is what happens and often all of that money often in the past has been written off.
15:35You know when banks write off bad debts.
15:37All of that I'm not okay with.
15:39Of course.
15:40You know when these steel millionaires, those steel tycoons, they take loans and then invest that money overseas.
15:45I'm not okay with fraud.
15:46I'm okay with real welfare schemes.
15:48Whoever brings in those real welfare schemes.
15:51Which are not accounted for.
15:52You don't know who you are doling it out to.
15:56No.
15:57So, that is why it's being doled out through bank accounts and that is why I'm in favor of regulation.
16:03No.
16:04Regulation is extremely important.
16:07One minute Karam.
16:08The centre has a fixed amount of money.
16:09Yes.
16:10Right.
16:11In the 2025-26 budget, 4.6% of GDP is being spent on education.
16:15Now you have to, and this is of course centre.
16:17You go to states, some of them are even lower than that.
16:21Look at the quality of schools that you have in large parts of this country.
16:24parts of this country. Now the same amount of money which you are now giving
16:27through these various schemes just before an election perhaps could have
16:31been used in enhancing your education budget to ensuring better quality of
16:34teachers, better quality of schools, better quality of hospitals. A future of
16:38a country lies in providing quality health and education. It does not lie in
16:43simply providing money before an election. No but Rajdeep, why have we come here? Why have we
16:47reached this point? Because people are choosing that shortcut. It's not just the
16:50politicians. You know, this revdy culture has worked. It works for the
16:53political parties. It's a time-tested politics. It's lazy politics. So the solution needs to come. I strongly
16:59think the solution needs to come from the courts of this country who have shied
17:03away too long. No, I don't agree with that. I don't agree with Akshita. No, no, Akshita, are you telling me
17:09that if I could give better schools and better hospitals to people, they would say
17:14no, no, don't give me school, give me money. I don't agree with that. Rajdeep, you can't put it on
17:18people. Inevitably, inevitably, inevitably, every person wants their children to have a good school
17:24education. Why is it that right now, political parties are not in an election campaign talking
17:27of development but rather what kind of revdy? Because that's a short circuit. It's lazy.
17:31Because it works. That's a short way out. It's lazy politics. Of course it works. It's lazy politics.
17:35Of course it works. It's a shortcut to power. The parties can choose to be a party with a
17:41difference, right, and take the longer route. Also, there can be institutions like the election
17:47commission or the courts that shouldn't put the onus on the people but on the political
17:51parties. But let me ask you a question, right, because right now there is also a dichotomy
17:55in midst of all of this, right, because some states are richer states, right, they don't
17:59really need that kind of money. And, you know, you could name a Telangana because Telangana
18:04offered many schemes which Telangana really doesn't need it as a state because Telangana
18:08is a rich state. Juxtapose a Telangana with a state like Bihar, right, till the time a state
18:13like Bihar sees development. Like, it's astounding to even think. 60% of Bihar makes less than
18:1810,000 rupees per household, but it does. Now you're looking at a state like that. Till the
18:22time the benefits of power development actually trickle down. You know, we talk about it.
18:28I have said it. We talk about health, we talk about education, but till the time it actually
18:32trickles down. Doesn't a state like Bihar, one size doesn't quite fit all, deserve that
18:37kind of compensation? Then maybe, you know, you make that distinction between a state like
18:41Telangana just to play the devil's advocate.
18:44Preeti, I think it's right that if you look at Nitesh Kumar's schemes, he's allocated more
18:50than 13,000 crores to OBCs, EBCs and minorities for the development, which is the most important
18:58impoverished class, right? So again, it comes to who really deserves it. Will you implement
19:04sweeping measures is the question. There was a candidate in 2021 Tamil Nadu elections who
19:11promised the stars to the voters, helicopters, choppers, 100 days trip to the moon and even
19:17an iceberg to chill out in the heat. And later he said he was just joking as a pun to all the
19:24political parties who offered freebies. So it's become like a, it's become like a joke,
19:30you know, that you give, you give 2,000, I'll give 10,000.
19:33I think it's also dangerous because of that, right? Or what it does to a state inevitably.
19:38States like Bihar, I don't know if they can actually afford to be dealing, doling out these
19:43freebies. Look at Andhra Pradesh. In any other circumstance, Andhra Pradesh would not be able
19:47to come out with any of the schemes that Naidu announced. They've got backing from the center.
19:51So now, you know, financially, maybe they can do it. But otherwise, Andhra Pradesh,
19:55it's no state to edge your freebies. Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you another
19:57question in all of this. Now, it really works spectacularly for some states and for some
20:02political parties. It worked for the NDA in Bihar, in Maharashtra. It worked in Haryana.
20:08It didn't work for the BRS because the BRS also offered similar kind of schemes. It didn't
20:13work for, you know, Jagan Mohan Reddy. It's about timing. It didn't work for that.
20:18You see, the clever politicians know when to time it. What do you mean?
20:20Look at what they did in Maharashtra. They did it from June to September, actually till
20:24October last year, leading into Diwali. Suddenly, families had 7,500 just before Diwali. Clever
20:30politicians time it right. It doesn't mean that it completely arrests anti-incumbency,
20:34but it gives you a talking point. And the point that I made about the lady, only half in
20:38jest in Maharashtra and Kolapur, when she said, you are giving me 1,500 rupees and you are
20:43asking me, is it a bribe? And I know that my politician is making 1,500 crores. He said,
20:47the same politician who used to drive a scooter now is in a large convoy of cars. People are
20:51seeing politicians, their assets are multiplying several fold. And you will give me 1,500 rupees
20:56and you will debate. You will give Rishwat. People feel that this system is unequal. People
21:04realize there is bad governance. The reason on education and health, some people might prefer
21:10cash transfers at the moment is because they're not sure whether you will actually fulfill your
21:14promise about education and health. Better a bird in the hand than witches.
21:17Rajdeep, we have very little time.
21:19Is it only about timing, Rajdeep? Is it only about the timing or is it also about delivery? And who's
21:24able to deliver on some of these promises that have been made? So if there's also delivery
21:29backed by promise, perhaps those people get the votes once again.
21:32You're right. You're right. You're right, Gaurav. For once, I agree with you on this because
21:36the truth of the matter, Gaurav, Nitish Kumar, the same girls who I saw getting those cycles
21:41in the between 2005-10 are now voters. They've seen Nitish Kumar over 20 years, give them various
21:47benefits. So it's not a one-off. Mamata Banerji, not a one-off. Jailalita, not a one-off.
21:51All the schemes that they did for women were not schemed just before an election. My problem
21:55was, for example, I repeat Maharashtra is suddenly you realize Ladki Bahin. You discovered
22:00the Ladki Bahin only four months before an election. No, you discovered it. You discovered
22:04it in Madhya Pradesh. May I also make one more point. Then I have a problem with it.
22:07Then it's not a commitment to women's empowerment. Please commit yourself to women's empowerment.
22:11Okay, make your point. Okay, final point. Something like a Manrega should not become what Jairam
22:15Ramesh had once described as a ditch digging exercise. Let Manrega funds, if they have been
22:20given, let them be utilized very effectively for development of that area. So whatever money you're
22:27spending in Manrega can also help in road construction or any other infrastructure.
22:30Final points. Final points. I find it very hard, honestly, to kind of draw a line between
22:36a freebie and a welfare scheme. So to me, I think that right now, what we can seek in
22:40a time when everyone's resorting to this is accountability. That when you make a promise,
22:44you also tell me how you're going to make that promise and deliver on it. And also ensure
22:49at the same time that it doesn't cripple the entire economy of the state, which is, I think,
22:53as a voter, they should be also educated on that, on the impact of these freebies, because
22:57then maybe you break this cycle. No, but they've been told multiple times.
23:01Hasn't changed anything. Yeah, but it hasn't. Because they might
23:03not believe that anything else will come in. To yeh abhi mil rahi, yeh abhi leelo.
23:07No, I mean, educate about the impact of it on the state. Fair point.
23:09I really feel that you have to differentiate between the basic necessities and goods that
23:15are being promised to voters, because I think it influences the minds of voters and makes them
23:21biased towards you. So freebies, basic necessities like education, midday meals, food security programs,
23:29you need it there. And empower them, skill them, employ them, provide them in employment
23:36and make a state self-enabled. Don't make it a Bimaru state, increasing the Bimari of the
23:41Bihar state by doling out freebies and making it more dependent.
23:45Rajiv, I'm going to give you the last word, but I just want to like give my 20 seconds
23:48before that. Please do. Please do. No, no, okay. You didn't get much time.
23:51No, no, not at all. Preethi, you get one minute. No, no, go ahead. No, no, what I,
23:56make your point. No, no, make your point. No, no, make your point. Okay, Rajiv, final, final
24:01comment. I just take the last 10 seconds. I didn't think. Please take, take your point.
24:04Take a minute. Take two minutes, Preethi. Oh, Lord, so much pressure. He gets the last
24:08word. He gets the last word. But no, okay. What I do feel is that the solutions in this
24:14needs to come through the courts. I think otherwise we're going down a rabbit hole, which is only
24:18getting successively worse over time. You know, from 1200, it went to 1500, the direct crash
24:25transfers. Now you're standing at 2000 and competitive populism has only taken over. I think the court
24:30needs to step in. The court hasn't stepped in. When you can shut down electoral bonds,
24:35you can come up with something stronger where freebies are concerned, which I feel that
24:39not. But courts cannot do the job of the legislature. Other than guidelines.
24:41No, no, no. I disagree with you. And once again, I'm agreeing with my friend,
24:46Gaurud. I mean, this is strange. What do you expect courts to do? I mean, you want courts to
24:51decide whether this is a freebie, is this a bribe, is this welfarism? I don't think that's
24:56the job of courts. It's not a job of courts. Was electoral bonds a job of courts? Yes.
24:59Election commission is not going to intervene because the election commission has already
25:04said they cannot. It has to be. The election commission has already said they can't intervene.
25:07Either the parliament or the people. The parliament was never going to do it.
25:10Don't do it during elections. What people are we looking at? The solution needs to come
25:14through the courts. Let me leave you on a lighter note since you gave me the final word.
25:19One of the first stories I was sent by my editor in Times of India to do was in the 1989 elections.
25:24Probably just when Gaurud was just about going to nursery school. I don't know how old you were
25:29in 1989 when Moshmi was probably going to nursery school and Akshida certainly was.
25:33I wasn't born. I wasn't born.
25:35The first was quite simply that the night before the election, you and the photographer
25:40go and see how the liquor is going on in various slum pockets of Mumbai. So we went and we saw that
25:46people have moved from Daru to giving Rs. 2000 notes, in some states Rs. 5000, in some states Rs. 10,000.
25:55We are only talking at the moment about the official monies through direct cash transfers.
25:59Do you know the unofficial monies that are actually doing the rounds? The 50 crores,
26:0370 crores, 80 crores that are being spent by individual candidates for MLA election.
26:08So liquor bottles are still a constant, Raj. Sorry?
26:15Liquor bottles are still a constant.
26:17Except for Bihar, but it's illegal.
26:19But they're still there.
26:20But where we get, I agree.
26:22Gujarat too.
26:23Okay, we're going to leave it at that. Thank you for joining us. We're going to leave, you know,
26:26the jury is out there. Where you stand on freebies, we're going to let you decide. Thank you for watching.
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