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00:00This is something we've been talking about today.
00:02So a man who goes by the name of Stink, Mark Schlereth, was on the show yesterday.
00:07And we're like, hey, did you catch the Juwan thing there with Kyle?
00:11And he's like, no, I didn't see it.
00:14And so we described to him what had happened.
00:17And then we also kind of referenced what's going on with the Philadelphia Eagles
00:20where A.J. Brown and, to a lesser extent, Devontae Smith seemed pretty mad,
00:24except for now they're throwing the ball all over the yard,
00:26except for now they're not winning.
00:27And so we put all that to Schlereth.
00:31And then he said this.
00:32Receivers are like children, a lot of them, not all of them,
00:36but most of them are like the diva ones are like children.
00:40One, you're completely dependent.
00:42Ten other guys have to do their job exceptionally well for you to sniff a ball.
00:46And two, you guys whine and piss and moan if you're not fed.
00:50You're just like toddlers.
00:52And it's incredible.
00:53And like I've said this many times,
00:55if you're going to whine and piss and moan,
00:58what I would like to do is take you down to a one-on-one offensive line
01:03versus defensive line and let some defensive tackles put you in a guard
01:07and let defensive tackles beat the living piss out of you
01:10so that you understand what everybody else has to do for you to sniff a football.
01:15It is the ultimate team sport.
01:19And that position, to me, is the ultimate dependent in that team sport.
01:25We're all dependent on one another doing our jobs,
01:27but there's no position that's more dependent on everybody else doing their job
01:32than wide receiver.
01:33And the fact that you guys don't understand that blows me away.
01:38It just absolutely befuddles me.
01:40Okay, so we had T.J. Houshmins out on the show, played that for him.
01:44He gave what I thought was a pretty mature response,
01:46which was to say, yeah, like I agree to an extent there are some of those.
01:51And yes, everybody is dependent on everybody.
01:54Then he went on to say that I've known some toddlers who play offensive line
01:57and wide receivers are pretty, so pretty.
02:00And then that was kind of what had us arrive at this.
02:04Here for me is the larger point.
02:06I don't want a he said, she said, and who's a toddler.
02:08My bigger issue with what's going on with the 49ers, especially the 49ers,
02:15I'd argue more so than other teams, are not dependent on receivers, not specific ones.
02:24And so the evidence will tell you that through the history of the league,
02:30when a wide receiver starts to buck, and I don't know that we're there yet with Juwan,
02:36but it feels like we're flirting with it.
02:37When a wide receiver starts to buck for any reason, the right thing to do is to move on.
02:43That's it.
02:46Now, Debo bucked.
02:49The Niners stayed for a little while, and then he bucked harder, and they moved on.
02:56That came after Brandon Ayuk bucked, and the Niners stayed.
03:02This year, Juwan, starting to buck, calf injury, contract negotiation,
03:07and now screaming at Kyle on the sideline.
03:11Now, the trade deadline's coming.
03:13You've sort of put this out there.
03:14I don't know that anybody's going to want Juwan, but we're closing in, I think,
03:19on the territory of, yeah, maybe the Niners look into this,
03:24because you don't need sideline shouting matches with the coach.
03:29I know you don't need that.
03:30Things are going to be hard enough for the 49ers with their man down, stand down,
03:36that's going on right now on the defensive side.
03:39They don't need this.
03:40So I put together a list.
03:42Okay.
03:42And this is basically recent history, relatively recent history,
03:48wide receivers who buck, what their teams have done about it,
03:53and do they regret their decision.
03:56And before you go further, and I love your list, I glanced at it earlier,
03:59but as far as your statement of the 49ers don't need this,
04:04I do think that it is especially relevant when you look at the fact
04:07that they are the number one passing offense in football,
04:10and yet their receptions by wide receiver,
04:14they're about 40% of their passing receptions in their offense.
04:19Yeah, it's Christian.
04:19McCaffrey's one.
04:20Tonjes is two.
04:21They use the tight end a lot.
04:23Off the street, Kendrick Bourne is three.
04:25Pearsall, I'm hurt, is four.
04:27The fullback is five.
04:29And then you get to Juwan Jennings, who is six with ten catches.
04:32So I think the point of they don't need it is especially important
04:38when you think about the 49ers because they love the tight end,
04:41they love the running back, and their fullback is like a tight end.
04:44And, you know, wide receiver by committee, that's okay.
04:48Totally.
04:49And they're four and two.
04:49Well, that's the point.
04:51You know, TJ was like, hey, we're pretty.
04:53And I'm like, yes.
04:55And you are high-level picks in our fantasy leagues.
04:59And so my argument would be that wide receivers, they get a lot of attention,
05:04they look good, they're fun, they're flashy, they celebrate.
05:08But are they integral to winning?
05:13Yes, to have effective ones.
05:16But do you need the highest level of receiver,
05:20especially if that receiver is starting to buck?
05:23Don't get me wrong.
05:24If you're Justin Jefferson and you'll just sign a contract and be a great teammate
05:29and take accountability when the wide receiver two on your team
05:33keeps getting suspended at the start of the year
05:35and you literally blame yourself for not being a better big brother.
05:39I love Justin Jefferson.
05:40I'd take that guy on any one of my teams.
05:43But let's go to the wide receivers who have bucked.
05:48And this is the last five, maybe ten years in the league
05:51and many of them current.
05:52Okay, number ten is Devontae Adams.
05:56Now, this was simply about money.
05:58That's all it really was.
05:59But he wanted to leave Green Bay and he wanted to move on
06:03and go be with his buddy in Vegas, Derek Carr.
06:07Now, what ended up happening is he made a docuseries
06:10about getting killed by Jimmy Garoppolo.
06:13He also had a dinosaur-themed party for his daughter on Netflix,
06:18then wanted to leave, went back with his buddy Aaron Rodgers,
06:22that was fun for about seven games, and now he's a member of the Rams.
06:27And how are the Green Bay Packers doing?
06:30Fine, Mark.
06:31Pretty good.
06:31Yep, 3-1-1.
06:33Pretty good.
06:34And they've got a bunch of receivers, none of whom have big contracts.
06:37Devontae's got 26 catches in six games.
06:39Oh, he's a great player.
06:40He's a great player.
06:41He's wide receiver, too.
06:42And with Pukunakua possibly going to miss some games, a game or more,
06:47he moves up the pecking order.
06:48But, yeah, Green Bay said, okay, off you go.
06:51They drafted a bunch of other people, and they've been just fine.
06:54Right.
06:55Like, what I'm essentially looking for here is who's –
06:58give me the team that really regrets getting rid of the bucking wide receiver.
07:05Can we find one?
07:06Well, keep going on your list, and I bet you there's going to be one on there.
07:09Number nine, Amari Cooper.
07:11He wanted a lot of money.
07:13He got it.
07:13He left the Raiders.
07:15Yes, he put on some wonderful fantasy years at Dallas,
07:18but it was never tied directly to winning.
07:22It was short-lived, and then he went Cleveland, and then he went Buffalo,
07:27and then he showed up at Raiders camp and retired.
07:32Now, you could say, do the Raiders regret it?
07:36I mean, I don't know.
07:38Like, they replaced him with Devontae Adams, and that didn't work either.
07:43Like, I don't know that that would have worked,
07:45but it certainly – I don't think it would have made sense to pay him.
07:49They haven't had a quarterback in a really, really long time.
07:53Yep.
07:53For Buffalo last year, three playoff games, six catches, no touchdowns.
07:58Buffalo was pretty much just fine without him.
08:00Number eight, DeAndre Hopkins.
08:02He wanted out of Houston.
08:05He got out of Houston.
08:06And while he played well for a minute or two with Kyler Murray in Arizona,
08:12it immediately sort of turned into journeyman purgatory status to where now he is on the Baltimore Ravens,
08:21and most people don't even know that, and there was a stop with the Chiefs in between.
08:24Yep, yep.
08:26And also Tennessee, a couple years in Tennessee, as I'm glancing.
08:30And, I mean, quietly, he is on the cusp of the Hall of Fame.
08:33Seven catches away from 1,000, and he's got 85 touchdowns.
08:37But, yeah, he wanted something else, and he still is chasing that something else.
08:41All right, now we're starting to get into the little stuff that's a little bit more controversial.
08:44A little salacious.
08:45Yeah, okay.
08:46I'm here.
08:46Number seven, and this is the one that may bring up the debate.
08:50Number seven is A.J. Brown.
08:52He left the Tennessee Titans and went to the Philadelphia Eagles.
08:57He does have a ring, and he has largely performed very well.
09:02However, he's also read a book.
09:05He has also denied a meeting that clearly, or a conversation that clearly happened.
09:11And we are currently in the midst, and reports are suggesting that the tension is real,
09:18and that there is actual concern with the Philadelphia Eagles internally because they can't quite figure out how to approach things offensively.
09:28Their offensive line is not playing as well this year.
09:31They've had a few people like Mekhi Becton depart the premises.
09:35Lane Johnson's been a little bit injured.
09:37And so, you're not performing as well.
09:39You can't just lean on Saquon.
09:41You're throwing the ball a lot to placate the receivers.
09:44You've lost your last two games.
09:46Yeah, and he's in a spot where, yeah, he went there.
09:49He had a monster year or two.
09:51106 catches two years ago, and this year, 25 catches in six games.
09:56He's not getting the attention that he wants.
09:59Yet, they're 4-2, like you said.
10:00And that thing feels like it might be breaking apart from the inside out.
10:05Although, the Tennessee Titans, who I don't even know exactly what they did with all of the picks that they got.
10:12I know that was Traylon Burks one of them, and he did not work out.
10:17But at the same time, part of it is just because of where the Titans are in their evolution.
10:22I don't think they regret the move.
10:23There's no point in having a highly, highly paid, big-name wide receiver on a team
10:28that does not have a quarterback or many other good players either.
10:31Right, right.
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11:22So, again, that's coming up in our 5 o'clock hour.
11:25Back to the list.
11:25Number 6, Chad Ochocinco.
11:31In fact, T.J. Hushmanzada, his counterpart with the Cincinnati Bengals.
11:36And this is where we start to get to players who aren't just asking for money.
11:40This is where players started to kind of go mentally sideways.
11:44And every single one of their teams, and in some cases multiple teams, handled this the exact same way.
11:51Which was, you are uber talented.
11:55Get out of here.
11:56And not really regretted it.
11:59Ochocinco, I love the guy.
12:01But he ends up in New England.
12:03And that never really fit.
12:05And now he has a podcast.
12:06Yep.
12:07Yeah.
12:08I mean, you look at his career arc, and he was unbelievable.
12:12Dominant.
12:13Hall of Fame track.
12:14And he still might eventually get there.
12:16But you go to New England.
12:17You play one year.
12:1915 catches, Mark.
12:20In 15 games.
12:22And scene.
12:24Career over.
12:25Crazy.
12:26Yeah.
12:26Crazy.
12:27Number five.
12:28A name you may have forgotten.
12:30Michael Thomas.
12:32New Orleans Saints.
12:34I've never seen a player in this league go from high on fantasy football drafts to gone.
12:42Quicker than this man.
12:44Michael Thomas.
12:45Who really started to get on social media a lot.
12:51And express a lot of anger.
12:53And he was having a hard time coming out of Drew Brees' career.
12:58And Michael Thomas basically just talked his way right out of the league.
13:02Yep.
13:02Ankle injury and two more years.
13:04And then, you know, you come back and New Orleans is in transition.
13:07And he was only 30 in his last season as a pro.
13:10And then, I mean, much like Chad Ochocinco, that's just it.
13:14He's been out of the league now two years.
13:15And I don't think he's coming back.
13:17This was a big name a couple Sunday nights ago.
13:20This is Mark Willard's top ten, what do you call it, not busted up, but...
13:26Yeah, wide receiver diva breakups.
13:29Okay, the breakups.
13:29Okay, diva breakups and whether or not the sending team ever regrets it.
13:35Number four, Stephon Diggs.
13:37This is a really good player.
13:39But he wore out his welcome in Minnesota.
13:42He winds up in Buffalo.
13:43Spars with Josh Allen.
13:45So he gets sent off to Houston to be Nico Collins' other guy.
13:50Gets hurt.
13:50Never makes a mark there.
13:52Now he's having a baby with Cardi B.
13:55And he did have one good game for the New England Patriots.
13:57Yep.
13:58And I don't think that his race has completely been run.
14:01And I would forecast that he's got at least two more teams in his future.
14:05Maybe.
14:06He's only 32.
14:07And like you said, I mean, he's not been bad with New England.
14:10But he's basically wide receiver three with a young quarterback and a young team.
14:15I want to reiterate, this list is not that these players are bad players.
14:20A lot of them are great players.
14:21But the problem is, is when they start to realize how great they are.
14:27And in some of these cases, not all of them, some of them, this is just about money or whatnot.
14:31But in some of the cases, these are the kinds of guys that Mark Slareth is talking about
14:36when he calls them dependent toddlers and they wear out their welcome.
14:41And I have yet to see the team that goes, you know what, I guess we should move on.
14:45And then as soon as it happens, they really regret it.
14:48Like, oh my gosh, the organization goes into a tailspin and the acquiring team,
14:53off to the Super Bowl they go.
14:55Maybe you could say that about A.J. Brown.
14:57It's literally the only possible answer on the list.
15:00But even when they did that, last year they ran the ball 200 more times than they passed the ball.
15:05So Philadelphia's year last year was quite the anomaly.
15:07You'll love the top three. Here we go.
15:09We're down to the final three.
15:10Final three.
15:11Number three, Odell Beckham.
15:14Odell Beckham was literally the most popular player in the league.
15:18He had a one-handed catch that every kid in America was trying to emulate in every park in America.
15:23But then he went crazy, fought a kicking net on the sideline, criticized Eli Manning,
15:30and was then sent into relative obscurity as he bounced around the league, Rams, Miami Dolphins,
15:38and other places, Cleveland Browns, as he tried to find that same swag and never found it again.
15:43Yeah, he was also a Baltimore Ravens as well as I'm looking at it.
15:47And you talk about being on a Hall of Fame track, 91, 96, 101 catches, 12, 13, 10 TDs his first three years.
15:56He was on track to be one of the best seven receivers of all time.
16:00And now you're not a Hall of Famer, and I don't think he's even on a team.
16:05He's not on a team.
16:06He wants to still be on a team, but he's not on a team.
16:08Not on a team.
16:09Not on a team.
16:09Okay, number two, and some wanted this to be number one, but number two is Antonio Brown.
16:15It has to be number one.
16:16I'll tell you why when we get to number one, why Antonio is number two.
16:20But this obviously started back in Pittsburgh when he started to buck,
16:25and he went live from the locker room on social media.
16:29Mike Tomlin did not like that, and shortly as they moved through this process,
16:34Antonio Brown, who was putting up generational numbers with the Steelers,
16:39was sent to the Raiders.
16:41Somehow this thing went sideways before the season even began,
16:45and Antonio Brown then ended up with the Buccaneers.
16:49He took his shirt off in the middle of a game.
16:52He left, and now every time I see his name on social media,
16:56I'm worried it's because he's going to be going to jail.
16:59Yeah, and again, another guy who was on a Hall of Fame track.
17:02If you look at the most catches in a season ever list, he's number four,
17:08and he's number seven.
17:09And it's funny because a lot of the guys you're mentioning,
17:11Stephon Diggs is number nine, Michael Thomas is number 11,
17:14players who were happy toddlers when they had these years where they got to eat
17:19all the time, and then things went south, and then their career turned.
17:23You're just like toddlers.
17:24What about the Pittsburgh Steelers?
17:26So they would win a lot, right?
17:28And then Antonio left, and what happened?
17:31Absolutely nothing.
17:35Nothing changed at all.
17:37They would just bring in someone else.
17:39It could be Santonio Holmes.
17:41Yep.
17:42It can be George Pickens.
17:44It can be Juju Smith-Schuster.
17:45That's right.
17:46They had Juju.
17:46It could be, and now it's DK Metcalf.
17:49Yep.
17:49And where are they?
17:50In first place again.
17:53All right.
17:54Number one, and I'll tell you why,
17:55because he didn't go nearly as crazy as Antonio Brown,
17:58but he is absolutely, unequivocally the best example of what I'm talking about.
18:04Number one is Tyreek Hill,
18:07and the reason Tyreek is number one on the list
18:10is because he will go down forever as the best example
18:13of a front-line, huge-name player,
18:17loved in the fantasy community,
18:18seemingly tied directly to winning.
18:21Niner fans know him well for his third down catch in the Super Bowl,
18:25and then he wanted $30 million.
18:28The Chiefs thought it laughable.
18:30The Dolphins thought it to be a great idea.
18:33The Chiefs took the offer,
18:35and since he's left,
18:37they've won two Super Bowls
18:40and have been to three.
18:43So, are the Chiefs regretting
18:46the loss of the great Tyreek Hill?
18:49Probably not,
18:50and I think that is a terrific example,
18:52because if you look at Tyreek Hill in 2019,
18:55just in the playoffs,
18:56when they won the bowl,
18:57and he was a part of it,
18:5817 catches,
19:00two touchdowns,
19:01and 12 yards of reception,
19:03including the big one you talked about against the Niners,
19:05and it looked like this guy was going to be generational,
19:07and he still basically is,
19:09although now this year ended with a horrific injury,
19:13another one of these guys who had a horrific,
19:15maybe career-threatening injury,
19:17but yeah, you go to Miami,
19:19and you cook for a year,
19:20and then things don't go great,
19:21and now he got hurt,
19:22and Kansas City, meanwhile,
19:24just kept on churning out Super Bowls.
19:26Yep, and he started the year
19:27by talking publicly about
19:29who should be the goal line back
19:31with the Miami Dolphins,
19:32kind of took a shot at Devon A. Chan,
19:34and I think is very much a part of
19:37whatever is crumbling in Miami.
19:39Two years ago,
19:40Mike McDaniel was the bee's knees.
19:42Everyone thought he was so much fun,
19:44doing a great job.
19:45Dolphins are in the playoffs,
19:47and McDaniel is holding court at press conferences
19:49with his dry sense of humor,
19:51and everyone loved him,
19:52and now,
19:53not only is he probably about to lose his job,
19:55he and Tua
19:56are literally having a war of words in the media.
19:59Tyreek is gone for the year.
20:01He's laughing as he gets carted off the field.
20:03The whole thing has just completely lost track.
20:06It's cratered,
20:07and I would not put the blame on him
20:09for Tua or McDaniel,
20:11but you went to a situation,
20:12and you didn't necessarily make that situation better,
20:15and Tyreek will come back next year,
20:17hopefully,
20:18off the horrific knee injury,
20:19and he'll probably have a new head coach.
20:21He might have a new quarterback.
20:22It's going to be a new system,
20:24and he's going to be 30,
20:25and, you know,
20:26largely just kind of chasing stats,
20:28and he'll be chasing Canton as well.
20:30Yep, now,
20:31our Boxer and Gerson work injury attorney's text line
20:33is doing something that I very much expected,
20:36and so allow me to explain,
20:38because a lot of people want to know
20:39how the hell are Terrell Owens and Randy Moss
20:42not on this list.
20:43First of all,
20:44they are two of the best receivers
20:46that I've ever watched in my lifetime,
20:48and secondly,
20:50I don't necessarily see their situations.
20:53Maybe T.O. in Philly.
20:55Oh, I'm thinking Moss in Oakland.
20:56Well, Moss in Oakland understood,
20:58but that was,
21:00I don't know, man,
21:01that was kind of a unique time
21:02in that organization,
21:04and already,
21:05I know the whole thing,
21:07he was taking plays off,
21:08and all of that,
21:09but Moss had already moved on
21:11from what I thought was his actual,
21:13like his best, best stuff.
21:15I know he had a great year in New England,
21:17but his best, best stuff
21:18was with the Minnesota Vikings.
21:20I hold Randy Moss in very, very high regard,
21:24but sure,
21:25if you want those guys
21:26to be examples
21:27of what we're talking about,
21:29I do think that
21:30those guys maybe
21:31are so elite
21:33that
21:33some of their teams
21:34did have a little bit
21:35of a harder time
21:36when they left,
21:38so that's why
21:38I left them off,
21:39and then we did have
21:40an others receiving votes column
21:42that included
21:43kind of the one-two step
21:45that just happened
21:45in Pittsburgh,
21:46which is George Pickens,
21:48who was very mouthy
21:50on the sideline
21:50with the Steelers,
21:51they move on from him,
21:53and then the guy
21:54that they replaced him with,
21:56which is D.K. Metcalf,
21:58Pickens is playing well
21:59in Dallas,
22:00maybe that's just
22:00because C.D. is out,
22:02D.K. is playing pretty well
22:03in Pittsburgh,
22:05but again,
22:05I'm looking at the teams
22:06who gave them up
22:07and whether or not
22:09they're upset about it.
22:10You think Seattle cares?
22:12Jackson Smith and Jigba
22:13looks like the best receiver
22:14in the game.
22:15Yeah, and the reason
22:16why I wouldn't put T.L.
22:17on the list
22:17is because even though
22:18he left in
22:19not the best possible way,
22:21wherever he landed,
22:22he balled out.
22:23He balled out in Philly
22:24and in Dallas.
22:25Even the year in Buffalo
22:26was pretty good
22:27and then Cincinnati as well
22:29and the Randy Moss one
22:30just sticks with me
22:31because of what he did
22:32in Oakland
22:33where he basically quit
22:34on the Raiders
22:35for two years
22:36and then,
22:36oh, I'm back,
22:37New England,
22:38look at me.
22:38Exactly.
22:39I get that,
22:40although some people
22:40now would look
22:41at the Raider organization
22:42and go,
22:42can I get it?
22:43I kind of get
22:44why you'd be mad.
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