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00:00Every single Wednesday at 3.15, we get to hang with our guy, the executive producer of NFL Films.
00:07And I'm not surprised because we're looking at Greg on YouTube.
00:11And Greg, just confirm for me, it looks like you're wearing a little bit of a pullover there.
00:15Is it black? Is that black or is that dark blue?
00:18No, it's black. I'm in my Johnny Cash outfit today. It's all black.
00:21I assume that is to pay homage to your bromance, Fred Warner, and the fact that he is out for the year.
00:28I got to tell you, that really, I almost burst into tears when I saw that.
00:35And I'm being honest here. I mean, that guy is, he's one of my favorite players that I've watched.
00:41And, you know, I'm probably jaded from doing this for a lot of years, guys.
00:44But Fred Warner, just to me, is such a great football player, plays the right way,
00:49plays with the right combination of emotion and technique and plays the right way.
00:55I mean, he's just a terrific football player.
00:57And I don't know Fred Warner personally at all, but he just, I love the way he plays.
01:02Could I argue, and I mean this based on team concept as well, like,
01:07is he potentially the most important non-quarterback in the league?
01:12He'd be right up there.
01:14You know, the other thing, too, is a lot of people may not remember when he came out of BYU,
01:19he had never been a stacked linebacker in college.
01:22Because I remember evaluating him, and he played a ton of slot, ton of overhang outside the box.
01:29I mean, I'm not saying he never had a snap stack, because I can't remember that specifically.
01:34But he was not a stacked linebacker at BYU.
01:36And the fact that he made that transition so quickly and became a great player quickly as a stacked backer
01:44is a remarkable tribute to just his intelligence, his willingness to work, just everything about the person.
01:53Not just the player, but the person.
01:55And the fact that he got hurt on a play in which they only had 10 people on the field on defense,
02:02that, I mean, honestly, that has to be even more devastating, not only for Fred, but the coaching staff as well.
02:08I know, it's, I mean, look, it's football, you know, they're still human beings.
02:12And I know a lot of people just think, oh, he gets paid a lot of money, so, you know, he'll come back, and that's great.
02:16But there's still human beings playing out there.
02:19And, you know, it's just, you hate to see that for anybody, really.
02:22I mean, I just happen to love Fred Warner as a player, separate from, of course, being with you guys every week.
02:27I've just always loved him as a player.
02:29But, you know, it's just, unfortunately, guys do get hurt playing football, you know, and it's one of those things.
02:37You just hope it doesn't happen like that, because that's a pretty severe injury.
02:41No doubt.
02:41I think 49er fans share the emotions you're expressing, certainly, as this happened.
02:46But, obviously, next man up, onward, what was your review of what the Niners tried to do to replace him, namely with Tatum Bethune?
02:58Who, quite frankly, I thought, when all's said and done, played pretty well.
03:03You know, no one is Fred Warner, so I'm not going to sit here and say, oh, it's no problem.
03:08But, you know, I thought, overall, that Bethune played well.
03:11He was active.
03:12He was aggressive playing downhill.
03:14He played with some quickness and competitiveness in the run game.
03:17He showed some stack and shed strength and power, taking on climbing offensive linemen.
03:22What you're not going to get, and what Warner may have been the absolute best in the league at, was zone pass defense.
03:30I mean, his ability to read routes, play with depth when necessary, get underneath crossers and the routes that are behind him, was unparalleled.
03:41He was as good as there was in the league doing that.
03:44I'm not going to sit here and say Bethune can never do that, but it's not likely that he'll be able to do it anywhere near at the level that Fred Warner can.
03:53And in the context of the 49ers offense, which tends to be more zone than man, that's a trait that was really, really important to how they play.
04:03So when you look at the film, not only after Warner left, but before, and you look at them being bottom three in blitz percentage and bottom two in pressure rate and QB hits and the rest of it.
04:13When you look at the film, what is the defense lacking and how do they go about trying to either scheme up more pressure or just try to play a little bit softer in general?
04:25Well, I think you kind of answered your question.
04:27I mean, right now, they're not a blitzing defense.
04:30They're not a pressure defense.
04:32And, you know, it's always easy to say let's pressure more, but a couple of things have to happen for that to be the case.
04:40Number one, you have to have players who you feel are good blitzers.
04:44You know, that's a trait.
04:46You know, you can't just say, OK, we're going to blitz.
04:48You know, you have to feel that guys know how to do that.
04:51They have a sense of timing that they work off others.
04:54A blitz is not just one guy.
04:56There's a scheme involved in blitzing.
04:58OK, so it's not just one guy that say, OK, you're going to rush the quarterback.
05:02And then you have to feel good about how you're playing on the back end.
05:06Because somewhere along the line, not 100% of the time, but a higher percentage than not, there has to be some kind of matchup element.
05:15It doesn't have to be pure man, but there has to be a matchup element where you match receivers somewhere along the line.
05:22And is that what happened, Greg, toward the end of the first half where they blitzed out and Huff drops into the hook to curl short zone?
05:29And then you had Johnson wide open down the field.
05:33When you look at that play, it looked like...
05:35Are you talking about the Cam Johnson 34-yard touchdown?
05:38Exactly.
05:38It looked like they brought a blitz from one side and they dropped into a zone coverage on the other side.
05:43What did you see there?
05:44Well, what happened is they just did not react to the motion.
05:50Johnson motioned across the formation.
05:53No defensive back reacted to that motion.
05:56So what you eventually had, guys, is you had two receivers to the boundary side of the formation and there was only one defender there.
06:05You know, the corner to that side, which is the left corner.
06:08So I believe that the left corner is normally green.
06:12So there was only one corner there.
06:14No one reacted to the motion.
06:16So now what happened was, and I believe it was green.
06:20I'm actually looking at it right now.
06:22It might have been Lenore.
06:23But the point is, is that he then matched the receiver to that side as if he was playing man on him.
06:30And then Johnson just ran down the sideline.
06:32There was no other defender there.
06:34So he was just free.
06:36So it was clearly a bust.
06:37It was probably a pre-snap bust because no one reacted to the motion.
06:43Greg Cosell is with us here on Willard & Dibbs 95.7, the game executive producer, NFL Films.
06:50Greg, this might be speculative, and I know that you don't like that, but I'm going to take a whirl here.
06:58All right.
06:58Well, we've talked a lot about Kyle Shanahan's scheme and how, for example, for young wide receivers, it's very complicated, right?
07:07It's a lot for them to take on, and therefore it's a lot for them to succeed right away in that system.
07:13I wonder what you see in Robert Sala's defense with so much talk now about the Niners making acquisitions at the trade deadline.
07:24Is it the type of a defense where somebody might be able to come in and contribute right away,
07:31or do you think that there might be kind of a steep learning curve there, too?
07:35Well, it depends who it is.
07:38If it's a veteran who's been around, don't forget what Sala's doing.
07:42Every defense, just like every offense, has its own specific set of things, the way it's taught, the way it's expected to be played.
07:49But it's not like Robert Sala is doing something that no one else has ever seen and no one else has ever done.
07:55So, if a veteran who has familiarity with the general principles and concepts of the system is brought in, then he can come in and play.
08:06If you're bringing in a second-year player who doesn't have that experience through the league, then it's a different situation.
08:13But, you know, I would guess that they are looking.
08:16Look, Mustafa's back now.
08:17He'll probably be a starter.
08:19The other touchdown that happened was the rookie Segal was a post-safety, and he made a mistake.
08:26If you're in the post-safety, you can't get beat up to the post.
08:30I mean, it's simple as that.
08:33There's not a lot of complexity to that.
08:36So, you know, obviously, Pinnock did not play this week.
08:40They put Brown in.
08:41So, I think they're kind of searching on the back end for the players that they feel can best execute what they want done.
08:47So, we'll see.
08:50You know, and obviously, the pass rush is certainly a factor right now.
08:53You know, they're not really able to rush the quarterback with four right now.
08:57Yeah, seven sacks on the season, which is second-to-last in football, and no interceptions from the secondary in totality.
09:05So, that continues to be a major problem.
09:08But I want to go on the other side of the ball and look forward, Greg, because we saw Atlanta on Monday night,
09:13and they are number one in the league in blitz percentage, and you've got a Niner offensive line that has been inconsistent at times.
09:20What have you seen from the Niner O-line, especially this past weekend, in terms of pass protection?
09:26Well, I'm just going to say that the Falcons' defense is really fun to watch,
09:31because these guys, they blitz a lot.
09:34They play a ton of man coverage.
09:36Jeff Ulbricht does a phenomenal job with his pressure schemes.
09:39He gets people free, and that's, you know, that's one of those things in the NFL where I remember years ago
09:47when I did the book that I did with Ron Jaworski, and I had a chance to spend a lot of time with Dick LeBeau
09:52with numerous conversations.
09:54He always said, hey, it's the NFL.
09:55You don't get guys free.
09:56You're looking for matchups, you know, when you blitz.
09:59And what the Falcons have done exceptionally well, and I give credit to Jeff Ulbricht for how he schemes it,
10:05is they're getting free hitters at the quarterback.
10:07But getting now to your question, I think the O-line has been struggling.
10:13I don't think that's a profound, you know, I mean, in some ways it's a Captain Obvious statement.
10:17I don't think I'm telling you guys anything that fans watching don't know.
10:21You know, that's, but, you know, that's a reality.
10:24I mean, that does mean something.
10:25You know, it may not be, you know, a profound statement, but, you know,
10:29I think the interior three are struggling in particular.
10:32You know, Pooney did not have a good game this week.
10:36I don't think Brendel's played as well as he's had in the past.
10:39So, I think, ultimately, it's a concern.
10:44But going a step further, I came away from watching the offensive tape.
10:48I felt Mac Jones played a great game.
10:50Mm-hmm.
10:51Yeah.
10:51I really felt he played.
10:53You know, given the situation, given that he was under pressure quite a bit,
10:56I thought he played at a really, really high level in this game.
11:00Will you take our listeners through the two interceptions?
11:02Especially, you know, there was that story from the sideline reporter that Kendrick Bourne was on the sideline
11:08saying that that first interception was on him.
11:11But what did you see on the two picks from Mac?
11:16Well, again, I can't, I can tell you what I saw and what I think happened.
11:21And because I don't know 100%, so I'm not going to be one of those guys that say,
11:25I know and this is what happened.
11:26I mean, ultimately, what the Bucs did is they went late rotation to cover two.
11:31Okay, so that means that they were not in cover two at the snap of the, before the snap,
11:36but the picture changed right at the snap and it became cover two.
11:40So what happened is the corner builder who made the pick, he became a cover two trap corner.
11:46What that means is he was just sitting low in the flat.
11:49And what happened is, is Bourne, he may have been aware of Vildor.
11:55So instead of breaking outside, which is where Mac threw the football,
12:00he then pivoted back inside.
12:02Now, I don't know if Bourne saw Vildor and changed his route,
12:06or if there was just a miscommunication from, from the get-go.
12:10I don't know that.
12:11But the bottom line is, is they changed the picture pre-snap to post-snap.
12:15It became cover two.
12:17And therefore, Vildor was basically sitting in the flat right on the outside in trap corner position.
12:22And that's where Mac threw the ball.
12:25And the second interception, it was fourth and six after the Pune fall start.
12:30Looked to me like he just was trying to force it and he might have had some checkdowns available to get the first down.
12:39Possibly.
12:40I mean, you know, I think what happened, that interception came on fourth and five.
12:45It also came on a late rotation to cover two.
12:48Now, Dean was the flat defender into the boundary, the corner.
12:51And I think Jones, again, I can only speak to what I saw.
12:56I'm not in Mac Jones' head.
12:57But I think maybe Jones thought, because it was cover two, that he had the whole shot over the top of Dean into the outside void.
13:07But Dean sunk pretty deep for a cover two defender because it's fourth and five and there was no receiver in front of him.
13:14So he didn't have to move up and play into the flat, which is where normally a cover two corner plays.
13:21But there was no flat threat.
13:23So instead of just sitting there and covering grass, he sunk and got depth.
13:28And Mac Jones threw it thinking maybe as he threw it that, hey, I can get it over Dean into the outside hole, you know, the turkey shot, as it's called.
13:37And it just obviously didn't work out.
13:39Greg Cosell, NFL Films, with us every single Wednesday here on Withered and Dibs.
13:44Definitely before you go, I want to get some stuff on the Falcons who come in for Sunday night football.
13:48Yeah, first of all, what was it that they did so well on Monday night?
13:54And maybe a comment on, you know, the general sense you're getting from how Michael Penix is playing so far this year.
14:02Well, I mean, I've been watching his tape.
14:04You know, the Amphanians, they're very, they do specific things, okay?
14:08So, number one, they're in the pistol on 50% of their offensive snaps.
14:1350% they're in the pistol, okay?
14:15At times, they get to it through pre-snap movement, but they end up in the pistol.
14:20They're a high-percentage outside zone run team, okay?
14:24No team has run more outside zone than the Falcons.
14:28That's what they do in their run game.
14:31And B. John Robinson is, I think he's the best back in the league right now, but they use him in so many different ways.
14:39He's a terrific receiver now.
14:41In the last game against Buffalo, they had two receivers out.
14:44They had Mooney out, and they had your old buddy Ray Ray McLeod out.
14:47So, they ended up using Robinson a lot as a detached player.
14:51I think he ended up having close to, I'm trying to remember the number of snaps because I did it,
14:58but he had a lot of snaps in which he was detached from the formation and not in the backfield.
15:04So, you know, they use him in multiple ways, but he is such a great runner.
15:08But he's kind of their shift in motion player, and they do shift in motion quite a bit.
15:14Penix, he's been solid.
15:16I mean, he's the one thing about Penix.
15:18I'm sure you guys saw him play, you know, when the Pac-12 was the Pac-12.
15:21He's willing to turn it loose.
15:23He's not risk-averse.
15:26He's going to throw the football.
15:29You know, obviously, London had the big game.
15:32The Bills' defense was not very good in this game.
15:35Again, we don't know what the Niners' defense will look like this week,
15:38but the Bills' defense got handled up front physically,
15:41and on the back end, they're a predominant zone coverage team,
15:45and they had a lot of issues with their zone coverage concepts.
15:48So, it was, relatively speaking, it seemed like an easy game for the Falcons' offense.
15:55Obviously, nothing's easy in the NFL, but it just looked like one of those games.
15:59How much does Bijan Robinson mirror for Atlanta kind of what Christian McCaffrey does
16:05for the 49ers in terms of his multiplicity as far as where he lines up and what he does?
16:12Somewhat similar.
16:14You know, if you go back to the great year McCaffrey had a couple of years ago,
16:18you know, when he was basically an MVP guy,
16:20somewhat similar in that he's both a runner and a receiver.
16:26However, now, because they have that second back, Tyler Algier,
16:29who's not a bad runner in and of himself,
16:32they don't wear out Robinson in the run game.
16:35Now, there's a game here and there where he may have 24, 25 carries, guys,
16:39but for the most part, they don't do that with him.
16:43You know, he might have 15, 16 carries, but he might end up with 25 touches.
16:48He's just not getting carries like that.
16:50So, they don't wear him out as a runner.
16:53But it's similar in the way that he's deployed.
16:55He's deployed as a movement player.
16:57They lined him up, and I didn't know, they probably have a name for it.
17:00I don't know how to describe it, but they lined him up quite a bit in this game.
17:04It's kind of offset wide.
17:06So, he's sort of outside the offensive tackle, but inside the slot receiver,
17:12which we see the 49ers do a lot with Christian McCaffrey.
17:17So, you know, and don't forget,
17:19Zach Robinson is the offensive coordinator for the Falcons,
17:23and he came from the Rams.
17:25So, you know, we know that there's a lot of interconnectivity
17:28between the McVay offense and the Shanahan offense.
17:32Greg, quietly, the Falcons are only giving up 20 points a game,
17:36and I see, right?
17:38They go out, they sack Josh Allen four times,
17:40and I'm thinking about the offensive line of the Niners, their problems.
17:45Mack Jones is not mobile, and his leg is hurt.
17:48Do you see this as a bad matchup for the Niners Sunday?
17:53Well, all I can tell you is the Falcons have the highest blitz percentage in the NFL,
17:57and I really don't think, given the receivers that are put out there by the Niners right now,
18:02that the Falcons are going to think that, oh, we can't blitz in this game,
18:05and that percentage increases dramatically on third down.
18:09So, you know, they played five games.
18:11Their pass defense template has been very defined, guys.
18:14It's man coverage, and it's pressure.
18:17They played the highest percentage of cover one,
18:20and they have blitzed at a higher percentage than any other defense in the NFL.
18:24So unless Jeff Ulbrich decides that this is the game to change,
18:28there's not going to be a lot of mystery to what they do.
18:30This is who they are, this is what they do, and it's worked.
18:34It's worked, and I'm thinking about that Panther game, though, Greg,
18:37where they lost 30-0 on the road at Carolina, and Carolina is better than Superwears.
18:41What happened, Greg?
18:43You know, it's one of those games, guys.
18:46There's 17 games in the season.
18:48I think Penix threw an interception that was returned for a touchdown.
18:50I think he threw a couple of picks in that game.
18:53It's just one of those NFL games that it seems every team has one of those guys
18:57where there doesn't seem to be a rational explanation.
19:01You know, when there's 17 of them, that happens sometimes.
19:04I call it a dandruff game, Greg.
19:05It's a head-scratcher.
19:07It certainly is.
19:08It certainly is.
19:09I mean, you know, I can't give you a great explanation for that game.
19:13All I know is I've watched the Falcons all season, and this is who they are.
19:17Now, does that mean they're not beatable?
19:19Of course not.
19:20But this is who they are, what they do.
19:22This is what the tape shows.
19:23Yeah, Bryce Young only threw for $1.21 in that game.
19:26Wow.
19:26Yeah, I think he had 16, and with like 16 or 18 completions, right?
19:31I mean, yeah, it was an odd game.
19:33And Carolina rushed for under four yards a carry.
19:35It's like they didn't do anything on paper statistically impressive,
19:40yet they won by 30 points.
19:42You didn't come away watching that tape going, boy, Atlanta just got their you-know-what
19:47whipped.
19:47You know, I mean, that's not the way.
19:49It was an odd game.
19:50You know, it's one of those games that defies explanation.
19:54Greg, we love doing it.
19:55Great stuff again this week.
19:57We thank you.
19:58We look forward to talking to you a week from today.
20:01Sorry there was no laughter this week, guys.
20:03You know, I guess after the Niners' loss, it was not, you know.
20:05I mean, I thought I had you with the dandruff game.
20:07I thought that that was funny enough to get a couple of chuckles out of you.
20:11I don't know.
20:12Maybe next week, you know, work on your material.
20:14Yeah, exactly.
20:17Oh, there you go.
20:18And he's laughing at his own stuff.
20:20That's okay.
20:22Yes, it does.
20:22All right, Cosell.
20:23All right.
20:24All right, Greg, thanks.
20:26All right, guys.
20:27Appreciate it.
20:27Talk to you next week.
20:28Yeah.
20:28All right.
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