Four Corners Season 2025 Episode 36

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Transcript

00:00This program contains content that may concern some viewers, including references to suicide.

00:20Australians lose more from gambling per head of population than anywhere in the world.

00:26We are connected.

00:27And we've become a haven for the world's online gambling giants.

00:31The Australian online betting industry has been the cash cow of the world's gambling industry.

00:37Online bookmakers have been accused of predatory practices.

00:41I was given the $50,000. I lost it in 40 minutes.

00:44I gave $1 million in about two months.

00:47Weak regulation has led to misery and exploitation.

00:51I think it's absolutely crazy.

00:53How can you just allow or push people to gamble in excess of $4 million and not even blink an eyelid?

01:02Months before she died, Labor MP Peter Murphy launched a blueprint on how to tackle gambling harm.

01:08Our report is called, you win some, you lose more.

01:12Over two years later, the Albanese government is yet to respond.

01:18The gambling industry is all-powerful in this country.

01:23They have the major political parties in their back pocket.

01:26Do you accept that the way in which the industry currently operates in Australia is destroying people's lives?

01:32No.

01:33The vast majority of Australians who gamble with our products do so safely.

01:36Two sporting legends have joined forces to call for action.

01:43It's like 75% of teenagers now think that betting is just a normal part of what you explore.

01:49And anecdotally, that's exactly what I saw.

01:52Hi, Alistair.

01:53We investigate the Albanese government's failure to act on gambling reform

01:58and the lack of regulation of this multi-billion-dollar industry.

02:03Can I ask you why it's sometimes taking three to four years to hear people's complaints?

02:07When you do stories on gambling harm, you see the ripple effect

02:29that one person's out-of-control gambling can have on families and communities.

02:35And we're heading into Mildura to meet a couple who know that story all too well.

02:47We found out just before Christmas that our money was gone.

02:51That impacted our children.

02:53This has impacted our whole family.

02:56The mental toll it's taken on us, particularly Nick, it's been really difficult for him.

03:01I don't even know how to explain it.

03:03It's just... I was just completely shocked.

03:06I couldn't speak. I couldn't do anything.

03:08You just don't know where to turn. You don't know what to say.

03:11You don't even know how to feel.

03:13You just... You just break down.

03:17Two years ago, Nick and Amy Mazza lost a quarter of a million dollars

03:22to online bookmakers without having placed a bet.

03:2515,000, 27,000, 15,000, 20,000, 6, 5, 8, 5, 7, all in the same day.

03:37It's ridiculous.

03:40Our story begins with, I was contacted by a financial advisor,

03:43Anthony D'Arvacu, who worked for a Melbourne financial planning firm, Freedom Finance.

03:49Anthony said that Freedom Finance were seeking new clients to enter in some investments.

03:55We looked into Anthony.

03:56We looked at the ASIC register, made sure he was registered,

03:59looked into the company, made sure they were a reputable company.

04:02We knew his parents, so we sort of thought,

04:05well, you know, he seems trustworthy.

04:08We should trust him.

04:09We had no reason not to trust him.

04:12Instead, Anthony Del Vecchio was gambling away the Mazza's investment.

04:16In April, he was sentenced to seven and a half years in jail

04:20for defrauding close to $4.5 million from over 30 clients, including family members.

04:27It's soul-destroying when it happens to be defrauded,

04:31but it's soul-destroying even more when it's a family member that you trust and love.

04:35While Del Vecchio was held accountable for his actions,

04:40the betting agencies got off scot-free.

04:43In sentencing, Judge Cannon seemed incredulous about the behaviour of the betting agencies

04:48and the culture they operate in.

04:51The judge highlighted inducements offered to keep Del Vecchio betting

04:55and said there was never a time when any gambling service questioned your conduct.

05:02She appeared shocked at the misery the betting agencies were inflicting on the community.

05:08Such business practices by these betting companies embody the expression

05:14the banality of evil, in my view,

05:17and it's staggering that they are able to operate in our community

05:20in the ways that I've described with impunity.

05:23They are evil.

05:26Did they ask where it was coming from?

05:27Did they stop to even care where it was coming from?

05:30Enticing them to make numerous bets,

05:33quite well knowing that they're going to lose,

05:36but with other people's money.

05:37The judge noted that around 8 to 10 betting agencies

05:41had offered Del Vecchio VIP services.

05:45VIP schemes are managed customer programs

05:48where there's an individual who's assigned

05:51to get their customer to bet more,

05:55to keep on betting.

05:57They do that by offering what's called inducements.

06:00People get tickets to big events,

06:03matched bets.

06:05You deposit $500,

06:07we'll match it.

06:08And those amounts go up.

06:10The more someone bets,

06:12the larger the amounts are.

06:14While Del Vecchio went to jail,

06:16the bookmakers kept the proceeds of his crimes.

06:20But no other industry would be able to keep proceeds of crime,

06:23so why are they allowed to keep it?

06:25It's not their money.

06:27And I sure didn't authorise them to have it,

06:29so I want it back.

06:32Kai Cantwell is the CEO of Responsible Wagering Australia,

06:36an industry group that represents six betting companies,

06:39four of which Anthony Del Vecchio gambled with.

06:42Do you acknowledge the betting companies that you represent

06:46are profiting from criminal behaviour?

06:49No.

06:51Okay, well, Anthony Del Vecchio had net losses

06:54of three quarters of a million dollars with PointsBet,

06:57who are one of your members.

06:58That's money he stole from clients.

07:00You don't consider that company now

07:03to be profiting from criminal behaviour?

07:05There are laws and rules that apply to all businesses in Australia,

07:10and we follow the law of the country and the law of Australia.

07:15Criminals need to be dealt with by the criminal justice system

07:17and the victims pursue those criminals through victims of crime.

07:22Give the call to the member for Clark.

07:25Morning, Speaker.

07:27Speaker, I present the Anti-Money Laundering

07:29and Counterterrorism Financing Amendment...

07:31On three separate occasions,

07:33Andrew Wilkie has tried to bring legislation to Parliament

07:36that would force betting agencies to hand back stolen money.

07:39The bill will ensure that gambling entities are held accountable

07:43by preventing them profiting from illegal behaviour in particular.

07:48Each time, it's been rejected.

07:50The fact that at the federal level, three times,

07:53the government and the opposition have failed to act

07:56suggests to me, well, I think it proves to me,

07:59that they continue to run a protection racket

08:01for the gambling industry.

08:02I think every reasonable Australian would say,

08:05if we know who's got the money,

08:07that money should be returned to the victims.

08:11I've never seen anything like this.

08:13Who does this?

08:14For the first time, Amy and Nick are looking at the list

08:17from the forensic report that details Del Vecchio's losses

08:21with 52 separate betting agencies.

08:24That is just mind-blowing.

08:26How anyone can be able to spend that much money

08:31without any questions.

08:33Oh, I just can't believe it.

08:35At the top of the list, a betting site called MintBet.

08:39And he's lost a total of over $1 million to MintBet

08:43that they still have in their possession.

08:47There they go, they're off.

08:49Slowing to stride was Peggy Rose.

08:50It was on the back foot early door.

08:52Joined by a very familiar face in the picnic racing bookies

08:55ringing, Casey McCutcheon,

08:57also known as the MintBet man,

08:58and Casey...

09:00MintBet is run by third-generation bookmaker Casey McCutcheon.

09:04My old man's a bookie in the big smoke

09:06in the city and the country.

09:08Full forward from last.

09:09I think it's got there.

09:11Big win.

09:13When I rang him,

09:14he wasn't keen to talk.

09:17OK, did you ask for proof of income

09:19when Del Vecchio gambled with you?

09:21They think you should return the money.

09:24OK, he's hung up on me.

09:26All right.

09:29I tried to catch him

09:30outside the Backing the Punt conference in Melbourne.

09:33Casey, how are you?

09:35Steve Kinane from Four Corners.

09:37How are you?

09:38Can I talk to you?

09:40Casey McCutcheon is the director

09:42and ultimate shareholder of MintBet.

09:44He's also its risk and compliance officer,

09:47which means it was up to him

09:49to do due diligence

09:50on big spending customers like Del Vecchio

09:52while also profiting from them.

09:56Later that night,

09:57we got word that Casey McCutcheon

09:59was about to turn up

10:00at a betting industry function

10:02in Melbourne's post office lane.

10:09Casey?

10:10Nick and Amy Mazza say

10:12that you've got their money.

10:13What would you say to them?

10:14They say you've got their proceeds of crime.

10:22You're the risk and compliance manager,

10:24aren't you, with MintBet?

10:26Doesn't that mean you should have checked

10:27whether he could have gambled

10:29that amount of money?

10:30Is there a conflict of interest

10:32being the risk and compliance manager?

10:34If I saw Casey McCutcheon,

10:39I would just say,

10:40I do not know how you get up every morning

10:43and think that what you're doing is okay.

10:47I don't know how you sleep at night.

10:49You're living on our money.

10:50Why wasn't anyone asking Del Vecchio

10:52how much he was being paid

10:53and whether he had the money

10:55to lose four and a half million dollars?

10:57We have a significant role

11:00in identifying problematic behaviour,

11:02whether it's criminal

11:03or whether it's problem gambling behaviours,

11:05and we report those to the authorities

11:08and, of course, we intervene

11:10where someone is exhibiting

11:12problem gambling behaviours.

11:14But it's clearly not worked in this instance.

11:16Look, those problem gambling

11:18and criminal-type red flags

11:21that go off in our system,

11:23we are improving every day.

11:24It is basically the Wild West

11:26of business in this country.

11:28I'd be hard-pressed to think

11:30of any other business sector in Australia

11:32that is so weakly regulated,

11:35so weakly overseen.

11:39The location for the main regulator

11:41for online betting

11:43might surprise many Australians.

11:47I've come to Darwin,

11:48the sports betting epicentre of Australia,

11:51a place where over 40 online bookmakers

11:54are licensed.

11:57Companies that are worth

11:58over $50 billion a year in turnover.

12:03I'm here to find out more

12:05about the part-time regulator

12:06that oversees all the big betting companies,

12:10the Northern Territory Racing

12:11and Wagering Commission,

12:12and try and talk to its chair,

12:14Alastair Shields,

12:15who seems like he's avoiding me.

12:17The big betting agencies have been drawn to Darwin

12:25because they pay minimal tax here

12:27and they face minimal regulation as well.

12:32It was the Northern Territory's industry strategy

12:36to grow the racing and betting industry

12:40as a source of revenue for the Northern Territory.

12:42They lured operators there

12:44to become the jurisdiction of choice

12:47for the gambling industry.

12:48In the Northern Territory,

12:50it's the weakest regulation,

12:51it's the lowest tax,

12:53and it's the most useless regulator.

12:55I mean, I'd liken the regulator up there

12:56to one of those so-called chocolate teapots.

12:59It's useless.

12:59The regulator has no full-time staff

13:03relying on support from licensing NT

13:05and has not released an annual report since 1993.

13:09How do you run a regulator

13:11for the country that's got the highest

13:14per capita gambling losses in the world

13:16without full-time staff?

13:18If you compare it to, say,

13:20the UK Gambling Commission,

13:22it's got over 300 staff.

13:27The NT Racing and Wagering Commission

13:29meets once a month

13:30and has six part-time commissioners.

13:33The regulator has been accused

13:35of being too close to industry.

13:38Earlier this year,

13:39its chair, Alastair Shields,

13:41admitted to taking gifts from bookmakers.

13:45So do you take gifts from corporate bookmakers

13:48at things like the Darwin Cup or not?

13:51I have in the past attended the Darwin Cup as a guest.

13:54Of bookmakers?

13:55Yes.

13:57Alastair Shields has led the commission

13:59for the past seven years.

14:01He's refused repeated requests

14:02by Four Corners for an interview.

14:05Alastair, Steve Kinane from Four Corners.

14:07How are you?

14:07Good, thanks, Steve.

14:08Good to see you.

14:08Is there any reason why we can't talk to you

14:10for Four Corners?

14:11Look, I'm sorry.

14:11I'm heading to a commission meeting now.

14:13Can we talk to you afterwards?

14:14I think I've already answered that question.

14:15Can you tell us,

14:17have you taken any corporate hospitality

14:19of the sports betting industry lately?

14:21And if so, how often?

14:22Can we talk to you after the meeting?

14:25How long does the meeting go for?

14:27Can you tell us how many hours

14:29you spend as the regulator here?

14:31Hey, Chris, how are you?

14:35Hey, Steve.

14:36Good to see you.

14:37Christopher Walsh is the editor

14:38of the NT Independent.

14:40He can't understand how Alastair Shields

14:43finds the time to regulate

14:45Australia's biggest betting companies.

14:47How many jobs does Alastair Shields have?

14:49Well, many.

14:50A lot.

14:51And we're not even entirely sure.

14:53From what we can tell,

14:54he has at least nine.

14:56Nine positions on different boards

14:58and commissions in different roles

15:00as chair, mostly deputy chair, member.

15:03It's extraordinary.

15:04That doesn't leave much time

15:05to be the chair of the regulator

15:06overseeing betting agencies

15:09with an annual turnover

15:10of $50 billion plus.

15:13Yeah.

15:13Now, look, I don't know how he does it.

15:16I mean, he's also the chief executive officer

15:17of the Darwin Waterfront Corporation

15:19and the, what is he,

15:21the chair of the Australasia Railway Corporation

15:23at the same time.

15:24And on top of that,

15:25being chair of Racing and Wagering Commission,

15:27he's also a member

15:29of the Racing Appeals Tribunal.

15:31He's also the director

15:32of Greyhounds Australasia.

15:35Many of those responsible

15:36for regulating Australia's online bookmakers

15:39have had close ties to the industry.

15:42Four Corners has discovered

15:43that six of the past 10 commissioners

15:45have owned racehorses

15:47at various times,

15:48including Alastair Shields

15:50and Ian Kernow.

15:51Ian, can I ask you

15:52if you still own a racehorse

15:53or a share in a racehorse?

15:55No, no comment.

15:56Is it appropriate

15:57that people who are regulating the industry

16:00have shares in racehorses?

16:03I think the criteria

16:04in the Act for Selection

16:05to Communities

16:06speaks for itself

16:07and you should talk to the minister

16:08who appoints people to commissions

16:09around their eligibility.

16:12Six of the last 10 commissioners

16:13have had shares in racehorses.

16:15Is that a problem?

16:16Does that show that

16:17the commissioners

16:18are too close to the industry?

16:20No, no comment.

16:22Commissioners used to be banned

16:23from owning racehorses,

16:25but by 1996,

16:27that clause had been removed

16:28from the Territory's

16:29Racing and Betting Act.

16:35Former commissioner Amy Corcoran

16:37also owned racehorses

16:38and declared that her husband

16:40owned a share of a horse

16:41with Matt Tripp,

16:43one of the pioneers

16:44of online betting in Australia.

16:46However,

16:47she did not recuse herself

16:49from matters involving

16:50Mr Tripp's betting agencies.

16:52In a statement,

16:53she said...

16:53My husband has never met

16:55or had any communication

16:56with Mr Tripp,

16:58either during that period

16:59of syndicate ownership

17:00or since.

17:01After leaving the commission,

17:05Amy Corcoran joined

17:06betting agency Dabble.

17:08When we asked the commission

17:09about conflicts of interest,

17:11a spokesperson said...

17:13The Department of Tourism

17:14and Hospitality

17:15will be reviewing

17:15the management

17:16of potential conflicts

17:17of interest

17:18within the Racing

17:19and Wagering Commission.

17:21And that under

17:21the Racing and Wagering Act,

17:23commissioners are supposed

17:24to have knowledge

17:25or experience

17:26in the racing

17:27or online gambling industries.

17:30Critics accused the commission

17:31of favouring the industry.

17:33Four Corners' analysis

17:34of over 170 published decisions

17:37shows two-thirds of them

17:39found no breach

17:40against the betting agencies.

17:43Lauren Levine believes

17:46the regulator

17:47is too close

17:48to industry

17:49and says she saw

17:51evidence of it

17:51at wagering forums

17:53in 2022 and 2023.

17:57I heard Alistair Shields

17:59proudly say

18:00to the industry participants

18:02that two of their commissioners

18:04owned racehorses.

18:06And it was said

18:06in the context of

18:07we welcome you guys,

18:09we like the industry.

18:10I heard Phil Timney talk,

18:12he was the executive

18:12director of the department

18:14that oversees

18:16the Racing Commission.

18:17He said,

18:18we've never cancelled

18:19a licence.

18:20We can,

18:20but we never have.

18:22He said,

18:24we're unashamedly

18:25the racing

18:26and gambling jurisdiction

18:27and are open

18:28for business.

18:30Four Corners

18:32has confirmed

18:32the Northern Territory

18:34Racing and Wagering Commission

18:35has never cancelled

18:36a licence

18:37due to disciplinary action.

18:38Philip Timney told Four Corners,

18:43I have no interest

18:44in talking to the media.

18:48When you look at the cases

18:49that have appeared

18:50before the commission,

18:51you really get a sense

18:52of how the betting agencies

18:54are rarely held

18:55to account.

18:57It was here in Darwin

18:58at the NT Racing Commission

19:00in April 2021

19:02that a contentious hearing

19:04was about to be held,

19:05involving a former

19:06professional footballer

19:08who had been enticed

19:09to open an account

19:10with BetEasy

19:11under his wife's name.

19:13It was a case

19:14that exposed

19:15the predatory practices

19:16of the industry

19:17and the inadequacies

19:18of the regulator

19:19in dealing with them.

19:22The man at the centre

19:24of this case,

19:25who we're calling Dave,

19:26was known to BetEasy

19:27as an out-of-control gambler

19:29who didn't want

19:30to punt anymore

19:31after losing

19:32over $200,000

19:33in one day.

19:35Dave has signed

19:36a non-disclosure agreement.

19:39Jason Munsterman

19:40is his lawyer.

19:41At the end of the day,

19:43he had the good sense

19:43to close his account

19:45and had himself

19:47listed with BetEasy

19:48as a self-excluded gambler,

19:51which meant that

19:52from there on

19:53he couldn't open accounts

19:54or place any bets

19:55with BetEasy

19:55and he also

19:57was not to be contacted

19:58by them any further.

20:02A year later,

20:03Dave was contacted

20:04by a BetEasy affiliate,

20:06John Dowd Jr.,

20:07and encouraged

20:08to open an account

20:09under his wife's name.

20:12So affiliates

20:13ultimately are motivated

20:14to find people

20:15like Dave

20:16and encourage them

20:17to bet

20:17because they receive

20:18a commission

20:18based on the value

20:20of the bets

20:20that they place.

20:21In this case,

20:22the affiliate

20:22was John Dowd

20:24and he was a relative

20:26of Matt Trip,

20:28a significant shareholder

20:29and CEO

20:30of BetEasy.

20:33At the time,

20:35Dave was in a vulnerable state

20:36with two children

20:38in hospital.

20:39In total,

20:40he lost

20:41over $700,000

20:42really on a couple

20:44of days

20:44of betting.

20:47Jason Munsterman

20:48helped Dave

20:49bring a case

20:49against BetEasy

20:50at the Northern Territory

20:52Racing Commission.

20:53What we found

20:55was the commission

20:55had very limited powers

20:57to be able

20:57to compel people

20:58to produce documents

20:59or to actually

21:00attend before the commission

21:01and the hearings

21:02were not conducted

21:04with the level

21:04of professionalism

21:06and rigour

21:07that I would

21:08have anticipated.

21:10The commission

21:11found that

21:12BetEasy

21:12breached two conditions

21:14of its licence

21:14by not complying

21:15with the responsible

21:16gaming code

21:17on multiple occasions

21:18and by having

21:20a blatant disregard

21:21of its own terms

21:22and conditions.

21:24It described

21:25BetEasy's failures

21:26as extremely serious

21:27but chose not

21:28to suspend

21:29its licence.

21:31Matt Trip

21:32declined to comment.

21:33John Dowd Jr.

21:34did not respond.

21:36The ultimate punishment

21:38handed out to BetEasy

21:39was the total of fines

21:40in the order of $50,000

21:41and the affiliate

21:43we understand

21:45received in the order

21:46of $200,000

21:47in commissions

21:47and there was nothing

21:48no clawing back

21:49or fines imposed

21:50on the affiliate at all.

21:52So it's not exactly

21:52a disincentive

21:53to prevent that kind

21:54of behaviour?

21:55Not at all.

21:57It's 2.30 in the afternoon

21:58and the Northern Territory

22:00Racing and Wagering Commission

22:01has clocked off

22:03after its monthly meeting.

22:06Hi Alistair.

22:10Meeting's over.

22:10Can you talk to us now?

22:12Is that a no?

22:13Can I ask you

22:14why it's sometimes

22:15taking three to four years

22:16to hear

22:17people's complaints?

22:20Can I also ask you

22:21when Amy Corcoran

22:23was a commissioner

22:24her husband

22:27owned a horse

22:28with Matt Trip

22:28why did she not

22:30recuse herself

22:31from those hearings?

22:33Can you tell us that?

22:34Thanks, sir.

22:35Yes, sir.

22:47I wanted to find out

22:48if other gambling regulators

22:49around the world

22:50operate like this.

22:52A big part

22:57of the market

22:57actually disappeared.

22:58I tracked down

22:59Anders Dorf

22:59the regulator

23:00in Denmark.

23:02The Danish Gambling Authority

23:03has 150 employees

23:06and we have a budget

23:07around 13 million euros.

23:10How do you make sure

23:11the people regulating

23:13the industry

23:14in Denmark

23:14are at arm's length

23:17from the industry?

23:18Well, we're not allowed

23:20to have any conflict

23:21of interest

23:21with the operators

23:23of course.

23:24In Denmark

23:25we cannot take

23:26corporate hospitality

23:27from a bookmaker.

23:29Anders says his regulator

23:30makes sure

23:31the betting agencies

23:32honour their duty

23:33of care to customers

23:34and strictly monitor

23:36their betting behaviour.

23:38Online betting operators

23:40have to comply

23:41with the rules

23:41and the duty of care

23:43and within these rules

23:44you have to be

23:45follow the pattern

23:46of the gambler

23:47and make sure

23:48they don't gamble

23:49too much.

23:49In the ultimate situation

23:50they have to show

23:51their pay package

23:52and how their financial

23:54situation looks like

23:55and then if it's sound

23:57it can go on

23:58but if it's not sound

23:59they have to limit

24:00the gambler

24:01or exclude the gambler.

24:07A legend of Australian sport

24:09touches down in Canberra.

24:11He's here to urge

24:17the government

24:17to act

24:18on gambling reforms.

24:22I've been a part

24:23of sport

24:24a long time.

24:25I've seen gambling

24:26ruin a lot of lives.

24:27The fact that we're

24:28advertising it

24:29every day

24:30during sporting events

24:32during sporting games

24:33is desensitising kids

24:36and normalising it

24:37that's why I'm here.

24:38I think we have

24:39a responsibility

24:39not to do that

24:41particularly to our

24:41younger generation.

24:42Good to see you.

24:44How you doing?

24:44Thanks.

24:45Nice to meet you.

24:46You too.

24:47Test cricketer

24:48Uzman Khawaja

24:49is joining forces

24:50with former Wallaby captain

24:52Senator David Pocock

24:53to push for a ban

24:55on gambling advertising.

24:58It's like 75%

25:00of teenagers

25:01now think that

25:02betting is just

25:03a normal part

25:04of watching sport.

25:05And anecdotally

25:06that's exactly

25:07what I saw.

25:08Like what's sport for?

25:11Is it to be able

25:12to flog off

25:13like a harmful

25:14product

25:15you know

25:16for industries

25:17to be able to advertise

25:18or is it

25:19about community

25:20and learning life skills?

25:25Welcome along

25:27to viewers

25:27all around the world.

25:29It's a series

25:30As an Australian

25:31test cricketer

25:31Uzman Khawaja

25:33can't avoid

25:33gambling ads.

25:35Along with

25:35Uzman Khawaja

25:36Each time

25:38you go out to bat

25:39in a test match

25:40in Australia

25:40you step over

25:42a boundary rope

25:42with bet 365 on it.

25:45How do you feel

25:45when you do that?

25:47Yeah, I don't love it.

25:48I've got to be honest

25:49I've brought this up

25:50with the Australian Cricket Association.

25:52We're Australia's

25:52national sport.

25:53We are cricket.

25:54We're the biggest

25:54sport in the country.

25:56I think we have a responsibility

25:57to lead the way.

25:59Short to Khawaja

26:00he's on 94.

26:01Not anymore he's not.

26:03100 for King Khawaja.

26:05Cricket is less reliant

26:06on gambling money

26:07than the big football codes

26:09and unlike the NRL

26:10and the AFL

26:11its leadership

26:12is not actively lobbying

26:14against an ad ban.

26:16The sporting codes

26:18are saying

26:19if you get rid

26:19of the gambling

26:20advertising revenue

26:21it's going to affect

26:23the grassroots.

26:24What do you say

26:25to that?

26:26Rubbish.

26:27Absolute rubbish.

26:29I mean

26:29people in Australia

26:31love sport.

26:33They were playing sport

26:34when they were

26:34getting paid peanuts.

26:36We still love sport.

26:37We still play sport.

26:39It's a cop out.

26:40On behalf of the

26:41Standing Committee

26:42on Social Policy

26:43and Legal Affairs

26:44Much of the impetus

26:45to ban gambling advertising

26:47came from a Labour

26:48backbencher

26:48who used to be

26:50an elite athlete.

26:51We know that online

26:52gambling companies

26:53advertise so much

26:54in Australia

26:54because advertising works.

26:56Peter Murphy

26:57chaired the

26:57cross-parliamentary

26:58committee that released

26:59a groundbreaking review

27:00into online gambling

27:02over two years ago.

27:04We heard evidence

27:05about the way

27:05gambling advertising

27:06also grooms children

27:07and young people

27:08to gamble

27:09and encourages

27:10riskier behaviour.

27:11One of the things

27:12I loved about it

27:13is this committee

27:13had representation

27:14from all across

27:15the political spectrum

27:16and we were all there

27:18to solve this problem

27:19that we all really

27:19cared about.

27:20All the people

27:21on that committee

27:21really were seeing

27:22the social harms

27:23that it was causing

27:24in their own communities.

27:26The committee

27:27made 31 recommendations

27:29including banning

27:30gambling advertising,

27:31bringing in

27:32a national regulator

27:33and banning inducements

27:35and commissions.

27:38Five months

27:39after tabling

27:40this report,

27:42Peter Murphy

27:42died from cancer.

27:46A short time ago

27:49Peter Murphy

27:50passed away at home

27:54which was her wish.

27:59She helped lead

27:59the charge

28:00for important reforms

28:01like reducing the harm

28:03from online gambling

28:04because she understood

28:05the greatest privilege

28:07of public office

28:08is the opportunity

28:09to make a difference.

28:11I'm really furious

28:13about the lack of action

28:14on this report.

28:15It's now more

28:16than two years

28:17and not only

28:18have they not implemented

28:19any recommendations

28:20they haven't even

28:21responded

28:22and people

28:23on both sides

28:24of parliament

28:25have said to me

28:26you've got to

28:26keep it up.

28:27It's hard for me

28:28to talk about this

28:29within my party.

28:31What's stopping

28:31the government

28:32from acting?

28:33The barrier

28:33to the government

28:34acting here

28:35is money and power

28:36and gambling companies

28:39donate millions

28:40of dollars

28:40to political parties.

28:41They don't want

28:42to see any change.

28:43Sporting codes

28:44get multiple revenue

28:46streams

28:46from gambling ads

28:48and they don't

28:49want to see this change.

28:51And broadcast media

28:52make a huge amount

28:53of money

28:53from these ads.

28:55They don't want

28:55this to change.

29:01Kai Cantwell

29:02is one of the lobbyists

29:03pushing against

29:04key recommendations

29:05of the Murphy Review

29:06such as a total ban

29:08on advertising.

29:09He's often seen

29:11at Parliament House

29:12and Parliamentary

29:13football games.

29:17Why doesn't the industry

29:18support a total ban?

29:20Because total bans

29:20won't be effective.

29:22Total bans

29:22will simply

29:23drive Australian consumers

29:25into the illegal

29:25offshore market

29:26where there are

29:27no consumer protections.

29:28What's the evidence

29:29of that?

29:30We've seen evidence

29:30internationally.

29:32So we've seen

29:33evidence in Norway,

29:36Denmark, Sweden.

29:37There is a swathe

29:39of evidence

29:40across the world

29:41that says

29:42that over-regulation

29:43drives people

29:44into the illegal

29:45offshore market.

29:46But the regulators

29:48from those three countries

29:49say that's not true.

29:52No, the restrictions

29:53in 2020

29:54didn't leave

29:54to a bigger

29:56offshore market.

29:59Regulatory bodies

30:00in Norway and Sweden

30:01have also told Four Corners

30:03that illegal offshore

30:04betting has been

30:05decreasing in their

30:06countries.

30:07Whenever any government

30:09wants to regulate

30:09the gambling industry,

30:11they say,

30:12oh, everyone's

30:13going to go offshore

30:14and they unregulate it.

30:17The bank figures

30:18show that it's just

30:19a really small percentage

30:20who are going overseas.

30:22I think the industry

30:23overstates that.

30:25But that hasn't

30:26stopped the Prime Minister

30:27from using similar rhetoric.

30:29What is in your mind,

30:30I guess, preventing

30:31this action?

30:32What's in our mind

30:33is practicalities

30:34of whether people

30:34just go offshore,

30:36then there's no revenue

30:37at all,

30:38they engage in gambling

30:39with no revenue

30:41coming back at all

30:42and it doesn't

30:43solve the problem.

30:44Thank the member

30:45for her question.

30:47There were further

30:48eyebrows raised

30:49when the Prime Minister

30:50suggested that

30:51lotteries were causing

30:52more harm

30:53than online betting.

30:55More than,

30:56around about 15%

30:58off the top of my head,

30:59it's about that figure,

31:01comes from lotteries

31:02and lotto

31:02and those tickets

31:03as well.

31:05I'm yet to see

31:06anyone stand up

31:08in this place

31:08and advocate

31:09banning

31:10completely

31:11all advertising

31:13of lottery

31:14and lotto tickets.

31:15I've tried to dig

31:16into this at estimates

31:17where you ask

31:17the department,

31:19where did these stats

31:20come from?

31:20No one knows.

31:21No one has any idea.

31:23And the only two people

31:23who've said them publicly

31:25are Peter Volandis

31:28and the Prime Minister

31:28and that's a real worry.

31:31NRL chairman

31:32Peter Volandis

31:33is one of the fiercest

31:34critics of an ad ban.

31:36Records of the Prime Minister's

31:38diary show

31:39he has had official meetings

31:40with Anthony Albanese

31:41at least three times

31:43since Peter Murphy's report

31:45was handed down.

31:47Peter Volandis,

31:48who is also CEO

31:50of Racing New South Wales,

31:51is credited with bringing

31:53big money into the NRL

31:54from the gambling companies.

31:57Former NRL executives

31:59have told Four Corners

32:00the game and its clubs

32:01now make close to

32:03$100 million a year

32:04from gambling sponsorships

32:06and product fees.

32:09Peter Volandis

32:10has described

32:10a proposed ad ban

32:12as nanny state ideology.

32:15The Prime Minister

32:16was not available

32:17for interview

32:18and his office

32:18did not provide answers

32:20to a list of questions.

32:21from inside prison

32:29Gavin Feneff

32:30has written

32:30to the Prime Minister

32:31asking him to rein in

32:33the gambling companies.

32:36Why are you talking

32:37to Four Corners?

32:38I care about

32:39reducing harm, Steve.

32:41I caused a lot of it

32:42myself.

32:43I

32:44experienced a lot

32:46of it myself.

32:47I've seen the harm

32:48to families

32:49and everyone around me

32:50and I've got a 12-year-old

32:52and a 10-year-old.

32:53I'm speaking

32:54because the only way

32:55to make sense

32:55of all that harm

32:56is to do something

32:57about it.

32:58A former financial planner,

33:00Gavin Feneff

33:01is serving a nine-year sentence

33:03for defrauding

33:03over $3 million

33:05from clients

33:06to fund

33:07his gambling addiction.

33:08He spoke to Peter Murphy's

33:10parliamentary inquiry

33:11in 2023

33:12and says the government

33:14should act now

33:15on three key

33:16recommendations.

33:18They must

33:19cancel

33:20inducements

33:21immediately.

33:22If they want to

33:23offer a marketing effort

33:24to customers

33:25then offer better odds.

33:27Cancel commissions.

33:28That's obvious

33:29that if

33:31staff

33:32receive more money

33:33based on

33:34customers

33:36losing more money

33:37then that smells

33:38straight away.

33:39And cancel

33:40advertising.

33:41I first met

33:51Gavin Feneff

33:52five years ago

33:53before he'd

33:54been arrested.

33:55His out-of-control

33:56gambling

33:57which destroyed

33:58the lives of others

33:59had been fuelled

34:00by VIP inducements.

34:03The VIP managers

34:04play a crucial role

34:05in inducing

34:07consumers

34:08to open

34:09accounts

34:09and also

34:10inducing them

34:11to continue

34:12gambling.

34:14They usually

34:15have a direct

34:15line of communication

34:16usually chatting

34:17to them

34:17on the mobile phone

34:18establishing rapport

34:21building a friendship.

34:23Gavin Feneff

34:24says he lost

34:25$3.9 million

34:26with Tabcorp

34:27before they first

34:28asked for

34:29proof of income.

34:31It was only

34:31after that

34:32that his account

34:33was closed.

34:34Then

34:35out of the blue

34:36he got calls

34:37from VIP managers

34:38at Ladbrokes

34:39and BetEasy

34:40who knew

34:40of his gambling

34:41history.

34:43I didn't know

34:44these two guys

34:45I was approached

34:46offered quite a bit

34:47of money

34:48to open an account

34:49with them.

34:50You put $50,000

34:51in front of

34:52an addict

34:54especially one

34:55that owes

34:56nearly $4 million.

34:58I'm going to say yes.

35:00The more inducements

35:01he was offered

35:02the more he

35:03misappropriated funds

35:04from clients

35:05to get deposit

35:06matches

35:06hoping he could

35:08claw back

35:08his losses.

35:10I was given

35:11the $50,000

35:11I lost it

35:12in 40 minutes

35:12I got another

35:13$50,000

35:13the next day

35:14they gave me

35:14a million dollars

35:15in about two months.

35:17Those last

35:18two gambling

35:20companies

35:21gave me

35:22a combined

35:23$3.5 million

35:24worth of

35:25free betting money

35:27and I lost

35:28$4.4 million

35:29and that happened

35:30in 18 months.

35:30In the example

35:39of Ladbrokes

35:41the profit

35:42from Gavin

35:43was $750,000

35:45the fine

35:47that they received

35:48was $78,000

35:50BetEasy

35:51made $3.6 million

35:52in profit

35:53from Gavin

35:54from his

35:55betting activity

35:55their fine

35:57was just

35:58shy of

35:58$80,000

35:59what kind

36:02of disincentive

36:04is that penalty?

36:07Natalia Nikolic

36:08believes the NT

36:09Racing Commission

36:10failed not just

36:11Gavin

36:12but the public.

36:14You have

36:14systematic

36:15failures

36:16to ask

36:17basic

36:18questions

36:19about the

36:20source of funds

36:21that he was

36:22gambling with

36:23you have

36:24VIP managers

36:25that are

36:26inducing

36:27his betting

36:28activity

36:29and the

36:31NTRC

36:31did not

36:33think that

36:33this was

36:34significant

36:34enough

36:35for them

36:36to either

36:37say that

36:38the bets

36:39were unlawful

36:40or

36:41make any

36:43changes

36:44to the

36:44licensing

36:45conditions

36:45that these

36:46operators

36:47were able

36:47to operate

36:49under.

36:52Another regulator

36:53is dialling up

36:54the pressure

36:54on the

36:55betting agencies.

36:56AUSTRAC has

36:58launched legal

36:58proceedings against

36:59online gambling

37:00giant

37:01Entain

37:01who runs

37:02Ladbrokes

37:03and Neds.

37:05Its bombshell

37:05statement of claim

37:07identifies the

37:08staggering degree

37:09to which betting

37:10agencies rely

37:11on VIP

37:12customers.

37:14We do know

37:15the top 2%

37:16of their customers

37:16brought in 65%

37:18of their revenue

37:18and that really

37:20is a concern

37:21when any business

37:22is reliant

37:23on a small number

37:24of customers

37:24for a significant

37:25amount of its

37:26revenue.

37:28Former betting

37:29industry insiders

37:30have told

37:31Four Corners

37:31they were

37:32incentivised to

37:33prey on this

37:34small minority

37:35of high value

37:36gamblers.

37:37We've been told

37:38of weekly emails

37:39sent to VIP

37:40managers

37:41urging them to

37:42target certain

37:43customers.

37:44Emails with

37:45graphs and

37:45spreadsheets

37:46showing which

37:47punters are up

37:47which punters

37:48are down

37:49like a form

37:50guide on

37:50who to target.

37:52And we've been

37:52told that some

37:53VIP managers

37:54make more than

37:55company executives

37:56with some boasting

37:58of making around

37:58a half a million

37:59dollars in

38:00commissions alone

38:01during the

38:02spring racing

38:03carnival.

38:04I'm horrified

38:05that this industry

38:07can continue to

38:07operate in this

38:08way with impunity

38:09and we just

38:11turn a blind eye

38:12to it.

38:13Do you think

38:13VIP schemes

38:14are harmful

38:15at all?

38:15No.

38:17Well, if

38:18they're not

38:18harmful, why

38:19did the

38:19betting agencies

38:20in the UK

38:20agree to

38:21restrict

38:22VIP schemes?

38:23I won't

38:24provide commentary

38:24on what's

38:25happening in

38:25the UK

38:25but what I

38:26will say

38:26is VIP

38:27customers are

38:27treated exactly

38:28the same

38:29with regard

38:29to consumer

38:30protections.

38:31Kai Cantwell

38:31is wrong.

38:32VIP programs

38:33are hugely

38:34harmful and

38:36other regulators

38:37overseas have

38:38recognised that.

38:41Austrac

38:41alleges Entain,

38:43the parent

38:43company of

38:44Ladbrokes and

38:44Ned's,

38:45failed to

38:45comply with

38:46Australia's

38:47anti-money

38:48laundering laws.

38:49The problem

38:50was its VIP

38:51programs.

38:53Austrac

38:53alleges the

38:54company was

38:54not doing

38:55proper checks

38:56on 17 of

38:57its most

38:58lucrative VIP

38:59customers.

39:00business.

39:01Well, our

39:01statement of

39:02claim identifies

39:03those 17

39:04clients and

39:05they've gambled

39:06more than

39:06$100 million

39:07through that

39:08business.

39:09So that

39:09shows the

39:10volume of

39:11money a

39:11small number

39:12of people

39:12can churn

39:13through in

39:13a relatively

39:13short period

39:14of time.

39:16When VIP

39:17gamblers lose,

39:18their VIP

39:19managers win

39:20big from

39:21commissions.

39:22The Murphy

39:23Review

39:23recommended

39:24abolishing

39:25these

39:25commissions

39:25and now

39:26Austrac

39:27has identified

39:28them as a

39:29conflict of

39:29interest.

39:31Well, it

39:32encourages a

39:32greater amount

39:33of gambling

39:33and it

39:34encourages

39:35potentially

39:36perverse

39:36behaviour

39:37where people

39:38might be

39:38encouraged to

39:39turn a blind eye

39:40to what might be

39:41illicit behaviour

39:41and we've

39:42certainly seen

39:42that numerous

39:43times in

39:44gambling businesses

39:45in Australia.

39:46Despite all of

39:47these concerns,

39:48the industry

39:49continues to

39:50pay commissions

39:51on gamblers'

39:52losses.

39:53Do you think

39:53they're a

39:53conflict of

39:54interest?

39:55Uh, no.

39:58Austrac says

39:59they are.

40:00Australia's

40:00anti-money

40:00laundering

40:01regulator says

40:02these commissions

40:02are a

40:02conflict of

40:03interest.

40:03Do you

40:03disagree with

40:04Austrac on

40:04this?

40:05I think

40:06it's a

40:06challenging

40:07topic but

40:07as I say

40:08it's largely

40:09a practice

40:09that is on

40:10its way out

40:10in Australia.

40:12Sportsbet

40:13has told

40:13Four Corners

40:14it's abolished

40:15the payment

40:16of commissions.

40:16In a

40:18statement

40:18Entain

40:19said

40:19they have

40:20fully

40:20cooperated

40:21with

40:21Austrac

40:22and made

40:22significant

40:23changes

40:23to their

40:24leadership

40:24and

40:25governance

40:25as well

40:26as increasing

40:27resources

40:27for compliance

40:28and safer

40:29gambling.

40:31That's a

40:31big question.

40:33Gavin

40:33Feneff

40:33was targeted

40:34as a

40:34VIP

40:35customer

40:35by three

40:36different

40:37betting

40:37agencies.

40:38He wants

40:39policy makers

40:39to understand

40:40how vulnerable

40:41people with

40:42a gambling

40:42disorder

40:43are to

40:43the tactics

40:44of VIP

40:45managers.

40:45The overwhelming

40:47feeling is

40:49just this

40:50chasing rage

40:52this

40:53tightening of

40:54the chest

40:55that is just

40:56an energy

40:56that would

40:57come up

40:57in you

40:58and just

40:58have the

40:58effect

40:59of narrowing

41:00everything

41:00into doing

41:01what needs

41:02to be done

41:02to chase

41:04the losses

41:05and you

41:06believe that

41:06you can do

41:07it.

41:07Otherwise

41:07why would

41:08I keep

41:08doing it?

41:09at Parliament

41:14House

41:14Usman

41:15Khawaja

41:15and David

41:16Pocock

41:16have joined

41:17a roundtable

41:18on gambling

41:18harm.

41:19Once we

41:20normalise

41:21gambling

41:21it's so

41:22hard to

41:23come back

41:23from that.

41:24Kate

41:25who doesn't

41:25want to be

41:26identified

41:27lost her

41:27brother to

41:28suicide.

41:29She's about

41:30to address

41:30the room

41:31via video

41:32link.

41:32What does

41:33it look

41:33like for

41:34someone to

41:34lose $10,000

41:35a year to

41:36the gambling

41:36industry?

41:38I can

41:38paint this

41:39picture for

41:39you because

41:40this is

41:40exactly the

41:41burden that

41:42our 24-year-old

41:43brother was

41:43carrying six

41:44days before

41:45he ended

41:45his life.

41:47On this

41:47particular day

41:48he walked

41:48into the

41:49kitchen with

41:49pain all

41:50over his

41:50face and

41:52I could

41:52tell something

41:53was wrong

41:53so I

41:53prompted

41:54him.

41:56Are you

41:56okay?

41:56You need

41:57to borrow

41:57some money?

41:58He could

41:59barely find

41:59the words but

42:00he did need

42:00to borrow $10,000.

42:02Six days

42:03later my

42:04dad's

42:05sister and

42:05I found

42:06him 500

42:07metres from

42:08our childhood

42:08home.

42:12The sound

42:13dad made

42:14the look

42:15on my

42:15sister's

42:15face

42:16haunts

42:16me every

42:16moment of

42:17every day.

42:19As he

42:20stated in

42:21his suicide

42:21note,

42:22I'm so

42:23disgusted

42:23and revolted

42:24with myself

42:25that I

42:25want to

42:26end my

42:26life before

42:26my addiction

42:27ruins more

42:28people around

42:28me.

42:29The final

42:30straw was

42:31continuing to

42:31receive

42:32inducements

42:32from

42:33sports

42:33bed

42:33after he

42:34had

42:34self

42:34excluded.

42:35He felt

42:36that he

42:36had

42:36a way

42:37out.

42:38Tim

42:38Costello

42:39says he

42:40told the

42:40Prime Minister

42:41about Kate's

42:42brother's

42:42suicide and

42:43urged him

42:44to talk

42:44to the

42:45family.

42:46This year

42:46I have

42:47written nine

42:47times to

42:48various

42:48ministers

42:49seeking a

42:49meeting

42:49about

42:50gambling

42:50harm.

42:51Tim

42:51Costello

42:52said to

42:52the Prime

42:52Minister

42:53he should

42:53contact

42:53people with

42:54lived

42:54experience

42:55to

42:55understand

42:56gambling

42:56harm.

42:57I

42:57waited for

42:58that

42:58opportunity

42:59but I

42:59never

42:59heard

43:00from

43:00him.

43:02Thank

43:03you.

43:04As elected

43:05representatives

43:05we're here

43:06to work

43:06for people.

43:07We're not

43:07here to do

43:07the bidding

43:08of the

43:09gambling

43:09industry or

43:10Peter

43:11Volandis

43:11and the

43:12NRL.

43:13We have

43:13to put

43:14people and

43:14communities

43:15ahead of

43:16vested

43:16interests and

43:17I think

43:17this is a

43:18perfect example

43:18of what

43:19happens when

43:20vested

43:20interests

43:21apply

43:21pressure.

43:23You see

43:23currently the

43:24Labor

43:25government

43:25capitulating

43:27thing.

43:29Annika

43:29Wells is

43:29the

43:29minister

43:30in charge

43:30of responding

43:31to the

43:31recommendation

43:32to ban

43:33advertising.

43:34She was

43:34also a

43:35close friend

43:35of Peter

43:36Murphy's.

43:37Like the

43:38Prime

43:38Minister

43:38she was

43:39unavailable

43:39for interview

43:40so we

43:41turned up

43:41at a

43:41doorstop

43:42she did

43:42in Sydney

43:43last week.

43:44Minister

43:45for weeks

43:45Four Corners

43:46has been

43:46trying to

43:46get an

43:46interview

43:47with you

43:47about the

43:48government's

43:48inaction

43:49on the

43:49Murphy

43:49Review

43:50and the

43:5031

43:50recommendations.

43:52It's

43:52now nearly

43:53two and a

43:53half years

43:53since that

43:54report was

43:55released

43:55by your

43:55friend.

43:56Why has

43:57the

43:57government

43:57not acted

43:57on that

43:58yet?

43:59Hi Steve

43:59I believe

44:00we spoke

44:00briefly in

44:01Parliament

44:01a few

44:02weeks ago.

44:02The work

44:03continues

44:03it's

44:03important

44:04work.

44:04I continue

44:05to talk

44:06to and

44:06engage

44:06with stakeholders

44:07about how

44:07we plot

44:08a path

44:08through to

44:08deliver some

44:09important

44:09reforms.

44:10Is it

44:10the Prime

44:11Minister

44:11who's

44:11blocking

44:12this?

44:12The work

44:13continues

44:13there is

44:14no

44:14blockage

44:14it's

44:15complex

44:15work

44:15and if

44:16it was

44:16easy

44:16to have

44:17be

44:17completed

44:17we

44:18would

44:18have

44:18completed

44:18it

44:18already.

44:19However

44:20the work

44:20continues

44:20it's

44:20important

44:21and I'm

44:21grateful

44:22to be

44:22doing

44:22it.

44:22And what

44:23did you

44:23think

44:23of Peter

44:23Murphy's

44:24response?

44:37In the

44:38next few

44:38months

44:39the

44:39Albanese

44:40government

44:40will be

44:41under

44:41pressure

44:41to

44:42respond

44:42to

44:43Peter

44:43Murphy's

44:44review.

44:49I have

44:50a high

44:50regard

44:50for

44:51Anthony

44:51Albanese

44:51I think

44:52he is

44:52a man

44:53of

44:53integrity

44:53but

44:53in

44:54this

44:54regard

44:55this

44:56is

44:56a

44:56shocking

44:57failure

44:57this

44:59failure

44:59to move

45:00quickly

45:01to implement

45:01all or

45:02most

45:02of the

45:03Peter

45:04Murphy

45:04report

45:04recommendations.

45:07I think

45:08many of her

45:09colleagues would

45:09be pretty

45:10sad

45:10and disappointed

45:11and would

45:12feel like

45:13that's not

45:13really doing

45:14honour to

45:14the legacy

45:15that she

45:16was hoping

45:16to leave

45:17and that

45:17she deserved

45:18to leave.

45:19Hello.

45:20Months

45:22before she

45:23died

45:23Peter

45:24Murphy

45:24was hopeful

45:25the government

45:25would act

45:26on her

45:27report.

45:28It remains

45:29to be seen

45:30whether she

45:30had cause

45:31to be

45:32optimistic.

45:33You lose

45:33more.

45:34So I'm

45:35positive

45:35that we

45:36will see

45:36a very

45:38strong response

45:40from the

45:40government.

45:41They

45:41understand

45:42I know

45:42that

45:43Australians

45:44want to

45:45see some

45:45change.

45:46So I think

45:47it will make

45:47a big

45:47difference

45:48to their

45:48lives.

45:52All right.

45:52Well,

45:52thank you

45:53very much.

46:17If this

46:34program has

46:35raised concerns

46:36for you,

46:36you can

46:36contact one

46:37of these

46:37services.

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