- 2 months ago
On today’s episode, Editor in Chief Sarah Wheeler talks with Paul Gigliotti, the new CEO of the California MBA, about affordability, AI and the organization's other priorities as it serves California lenders.
To learn more about Trust & Will, vist https://trustandwill.com/
The HousingWire Daily podcast brings the full picture of the most compelling stories in the housing market reported across HousingWire. Each morning, listen to editor in chief Sarah Wheeler talk to leading industry voices and get a deeper look behind the scenes of the top mortgage and real estate stories. Hosted and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
To learn more about Trust & Will, vist https://trustandwill.com/
The HousingWire Daily podcast brings the full picture of the most compelling stories in the housing market reported across HousingWire. Each morning, listen to editor in chief Sarah Wheeler talk to leading industry voices and get a deeper look behind the scenes of the top mortgage and real estate stories. Hosted and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
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00:00welcome everyone my guest today is paul gilotti the new ceo of the california mba to talk about
00:12affordability ai and other priorities as he takes over this new role in serving the mortgage lenders
00:19of california first i want to thank our sponsor trust and will for making this episode possible
00:25paul welcome to the podcast thank you it's so great to be here sarah it is great to be here and
00:32part of your big announcement at california mba about the leadership change that's happening after
00:38a couple of decades so first of all congratulations to you for taking over this role yeah i really
00:45appreciate it i'm really excited there's so much opportunity and so much available to do and work
00:53and the team and the board of directors and the industry it's just it's it's it's it's going to be
00:58great yeah so let's dive in there a little bit so susan malazzo has been at the california mba for
01:06what 25 years total 22 as ceo i'm just an incredible legacy there of building up that association and
01:14all the changes that have happened in those 25 years so maybe from your perspective let's start
01:19there and go you know what do you feel like what legacy is she leaving behind um you know that's a
01:26great question and uh we could take this entire uh chat to talk about the legacy that uh susan malazzo
01:31is leaving behind she has created you know a really strong sense of community in the industry
01:37um she's bridged that community both on the commercial and residential side so the california mba
01:43services both commercial and residential um and the the work that susan has brought to the industry as
01:49a whole uh regarding advocacy and legislation i think is what it sits top of mind uh for me um and
01:57the reason why it's been so impactful i feel is oftentimes california the state of california
02:02leads charge and what occurs in the state of california then very easily moves up into the federal level
02:09um so you know because of the advocacy work that susan has created at the california mba she's also
02:17created really close ties with the national mba a great partnership between california mba and the
02:22national mba as well as the other state mba um associations but you know her legacy that she's left
02:30behind definitely you know starts with advocacy and legislation that's where her background was prior to
02:36coming to california mba so she had that inherent skill set um already within her uh on top of that
02:44susan has created a great um opportunity for networking and collaboration as housing wire knows
02:49uh you know through our very robust uh events that the california mba hosts uh mortgage innovators
02:56conference uh western secondary and then of course our legislation uh conference that we hold in
03:02in february um all of which provided a great platform for lenders to connect with other lenders
03:09lenders to connect with investors warehouse facilities uh different technology that's out there to support
03:15lenders to you know to grow within the industry um so those are some of the top points that i i feel
03:22when i when i when we talk about the legacy of susan malazo and what she's done for the california mba
03:28those are top of mind for me it's really an incredible run of leadership we don't we don't
03:33see that kind of multi-decade um leadership too often just because you know you know mortgage markets
03:40change people's lives change so it is it is really stellar um would love to know from your perspective
03:46like what are you bringing as you as you step into this role um you know what is your vision and
03:51how might it be different or do you feel like you are building on top of that well it's different but i
03:58also feel like i'm building on top of it so as you know we were chatting our backgrounds are really
04:03diverse susan and myself so there's there's a different perspective um that will be brought from
04:09from from me uh i bring 20 years plus experience leading mortgage lenders driving innovation through
04:17technology um i have built lending platforms i've streamlined process and i've grown organizations
04:24like pinnacle home loans access lending academy while also helping mortgage technology companies
04:31scale uh most recently with prudent ai i've been at the forefront of integrating ai technology into lending
04:38so i think that experience combined with my service as a california mba board member gives me this
04:46really unique perspective um i understand the challenges of lenders i often you know can immediately
04:52place myself back in the seat of being a coo or even when i started in the mortgage lending industry as
04:59an originator um the innovation of solution providers you know i've touched on that as well
05:05um and while being associated with the california mba the importance of strong advocacy and so my goal is
05:13to unify those perspectives to strengthen the community of the california mba and the positioning of the
05:22california mba as a trusted voice for our industry uh to be honest with you agnostic of state right so i
05:30really want to support our industry in understanding you know where certain aspects of the mortgage lending
05:38industry that really affects the lender right and then therefore the consumer because ultimately
05:45the california mba as an association is there to support the mortgage lending industry the lenders in
05:51the community so that they can go and better serve the consumer the end user of the product
05:55so i mean it's not you know obviously you've been on the board you've been in leadership
05:59at california mba um so it's it's not brand new to you but i do think it's so interesting now to
06:07for you to take this role given your background in technology and specifically ai and and just the
06:13moment that we are in that that mortgage lenders really um have an incredible opportunity but also
06:20if they don't embrace it i mean this could be a game changer in a bad way it's fascinating there are
06:26so many aspects to it or facets to it sarah when you look at um uh bringing in technology and embracing
06:33technology really in any industry but obviously specific uh lending residential and commercial
06:39um the need for adoption is there there it it just runs deep right uh you know and i i would really
06:47start with uh the need for adoption to technology specifically ai is um for the consumer you know
06:55we're in an age of consumer the consumer's demanding uh they know what they want and they want it now
07:01um and in order to provide them that at scalability the adoption of ai um you know has to be there
07:09for for organizations um specifically lenders but also additional technology providers you know i'm
07:16sure housing wire uh as a as a support mechanism to to the uh residential real estate uh housing uh market
07:25you've got ai all over the place at a housing wire um it helps you with your data it helps you with
07:31your data analysis um and so it really is something that um what what we strive or what we'll strive to do
07:40at the california mba is have solutions and education at your fingertips of course using the ai um so that
07:47we can ensure that um it's accessible um and it's understood um in a very easy manner what do you think you know
07:56taking a step back what do you think the biggest challenge is for mortgage lenders in california
08:02right now i think there's a handful of challenges for mortgage lenders uh specifically in the state
08:08of california but industry-wide um you know we can start with some things that have been kind of
08:14noodling around for a while um you know we can look at housing affordability uh inventory specifically
08:21in california and affordability in california um you know there's a strong segment of the population in
08:27california that um are in the service industries right um or that are in gig economy they need to
08:33live somewhere um and we're quickly uh running short of um inventory uh according to nar um inventory
08:44remains near historic lows and freddie mac estimates a national housing shortage of 3.8 million
08:51units um now that is you know in a in a specific area uh but this isn't just uh market issues right
08:59so we'll talk about market issues uh we have a community issue um in the state of california
09:04obviously market issues play into affordability um you know everybody's talking about the cost of
09:11living is rapidly increasing inflation um and then we've got some you know very unique to california
09:17we've got some issues with um insurance which is i i know housing wire is very aware of that um and
09:24we've got a lot of you know we're moving through some regulatory issues as well um and so the california
09:31nba will remain steadfast at supporting uh the legislators in the state of california in really
09:37understanding how some of these bills that are sitting on their desk affect lenders um affect the
09:42lenders ability to do what it is that they're supposed to do and that serve the consumer and
09:48some of that is related to uh ai and technology and how legislators are looking at ai and what ai
09:55should and shouldn't be doing um so we're at the forefront of that we have been at the forefront of
10:01the insurance crisis um so those are some of the things that are top of mind uh to the california
10:07mba as an association to continue to push for and provide that advocacy but also that education
10:12uh piece um as to you know what's really going on and how is that really going to affect you as a
10:20mortgage lender or a solution provide and then therefore what's the chain reaction to the consumer
10:25so on on the insurance front is there anything there that you're like well you know what this is a
10:31positive or this is a win that we've had because it does it can feel like there's just it's just an
10:37intractical problem yeah you know i um we are we are still knee deep in the insurance crisis um
10:44we've had some wins as a state uh what's really interesting is now watching it kind of spread through
10:51to other states now it's becoming a a great issue in florida so the more populated states um you know
10:58there's the crisis is occurring and you know everybody could raise their hand and say why
11:03um i think what our focus is is how to um support the lenders in understanding why it's occurring and
11:12to better educate the consumer um so there have been some wins um i think what's occurring right now
11:20is we're we're we're looking for um the insurance rates to have um a baseline if you will right and
11:29so when the insurance rates have a baseline different insurance companies are coming to market
11:34um so i think that there'll be some adjustment uh to to the insurance crisis um meaning that it will
11:41start to level out a little bit so it'll become less of a crisis and there'll be education around why it
11:47has occurred and what most importantly from my perspective what's happening so something like
11:53that doesn't occur again and hopefully what will happen is other states will take note to
11:59this crisis and they can get in front of the ball um to ensure that it doesn't happen in in in their
12:06area i feel like in every state that's really affected by this and of course like what state does not
12:12have some sort of natural disaster you know uh crisis looming i'm in texas we just had a whole
12:18bunch of hail in september that's completely not normal of course we have coastline as well so we
12:24might have hurricanes we have tornadoes we have all sorts of things but when you think about the
12:28states that have um california florida being being the two big ones that that have just i mean you
12:35have all that coastline for one thing you have you're a giant state so a lot of things happen you have
12:40all these things do you feel like you know eventually like this has to be a federal a federally
12:46um addressed issue more than it currently is you know i don't know if it has to i that's a really
12:52interesting question and i'll preface my response to that is you know i'm quickly getting my training
12:59wheels off on the legislative and advocacy side of the california mba um association right as we were
13:08discussing i'm i'm planted firmly with mortgage lending from origination to operations to mortgage
13:13backed securities as well as technology um from from my perspective what i would say is you know
13:20again california does is looked at often um is looked at often for how they how they're moving through
13:27um you know certain legislative initiatives and one of them being the insurance crisis and another one
13:33very top of mind uh is technology um and and what is ai and what a what should ai do or what role should
13:42ai play in the approval of a consumer getting a residential mortgage loan um so to answer your question
13:50you know i i think it's really important for states to provide data information and analysis
13:58of what is best for their state and to collaborate with the federal government i i i personally don't
14:05know if the the best result would be to have a federal hand playing in something like insurance
14:12or technology or uh the community reinvestment act cra is another bill that's going to come up for
14:20conversation in 26 um because they don't have a focal they're not on in that specific state um you
14:29know they they they they they they see the data and they hear what's going on but they're they're not
14:34there um definitely support you know is is going to be needed um but to answer your question i i'm not sure
14:43if it would if it would bring much help to have it regulated by the federal government i i don't know
14:49the answer to that and i think that it i that is a very tough question so thanks for answering on day
14:56one literally of being in this in this job and i think it goes to you know the way that so many things
15:02are organized in our society right you know if you think about education like there's a federal part
15:08of that but it's still mostly local control how you pay for education what that looks like
15:12i feel like housing obviously even more so local zoning laws um challenges all that so maybe that's
15:19not the way it's going to go but um it is definitely going to be the conversation going forward is like
15:24how do we solve this crisis not just for california but people everywhere right it that is one of the
15:30things that people have talked about we can you know mortgage rates are absolutely a part of the
15:34affordability you know equation but it's not the only part that people are struggling with
15:40no not at all i mean it all when you sit back and start to kind of peel the onion there are so
15:45many parts that make housing affordable you know property tax my property taxes just went up
15:50insurance um and then we can even pick apart some of the smaller things maintenance i swear to god
15:56i had plumbing done in my home not to get off track but i saw the plumbing bill and i was kind of
16:01scratching my head with my husband for quite a bit and i sat back and thought how is this possible like
16:07this is more than the mortgage payment it doesn't seem to be that big of a part of of of the plumbing
16:15system if you will right so you know affordability is a it's a very large uh topic of conversation i
16:22think yes rates do play into it um but i think there are so many other aspects to your point insurance
16:28um you know what taxes are looking like upkeep on a home um you know what you do once you get in the
16:35home and then you obviously have to look at um inflation and cost of living just seeming to me
16:41to be skyrocketing and so what does that do to affordable housing right so it's not just the the
16:47rate and payment itself um and and those are conversations that you know i remember from my
16:53lending days that i would have with um consumers yeah you can qualify for this mortgage but i'm not to
17:01i heard you say you send your child to private school and i'm not taking that into consideration
17:05you know you've got an additional fifteen hundred dollars that you're paying so are you comfortable
17:11with that have you have you factored that into your expense well that was a long time ago i know i look
17:17like i'm 25 but you know costs have gone up so much so that fifteen hundred dollar private school
17:23tuition is probably now seven thousand dollars um so what does that do to being able to afford the home
17:29so it to me it is an onion um we've got some movement with rates as we all know and we've
17:35we've seen you know but really how much is that going to support affordable housing i think that's
17:41such a great point i was actually uh talking to a co-worker of mine who lives in colorado is paying
17:46thirty five hundred dollars a month for daycare thirty five hundred dollars a month that's not private
17:51school that's not like getting you ready for your sats that is simply daycare and i think that that
17:57when all those other costs rise and as they have it it does put strain and even when you're looking
18:02at you know um ability to repay or your debt to income ratio those are those are great um but they
18:09don't always factor in all of the kind of things you and i are talking about right now yeah yeah so you
18:14know a a a full-time imb mortgage banker executive might listen to this conversation and no affordable
18:21housing is really what does that house cost in the rate but there are factors that play into that
18:26right and so you know one of the things that we want to do at california mba is bring that forward
18:34as educational material to our lenders you know our members on both on the commercial and residential
18:42side because it affects commercial lending as well right and the solution providers that support that
18:49industry having those conversations about affordability and how to maneuver through that
18:55and then obviously being that voice that goes to legislation for our industry and for the consumer
19:02you mentioned several times that you know what happens in california often spreads to the rest of
19:06the country in housing and other things and right now especially we've seen the federal government pull
19:12back a ton on um regulation financial regulation right i think about the cfpb which is a shell of its
19:19former self of course there is look back periods there's all these things that that mortgage lenders
19:24have to think about but one of the things that always comes up when we talk about the federal
19:29government stepping back is the state government stepping up to the plate and new york and california
19:35are two states who sort of pride themselves on listen we're going to make sure that there are lots of
19:39regulations in place to keep things safe what are you seeing right now in california is that office
19:44um i know nydfs i'm trying to think what the california office is uh the similar thing but
19:51what is that office doing right now have you seen them kind of um step up enforcement or or putting out
19:57guidelines or anything yeah so the dfpi uh the california mba has a has a really a great relationship with
20:04the dfpi there's a lot of communication back and forth a lot of transparency uh we bring to the in fact we
20:11just had i want to say about three weeks ago we had a round table with the dfpi uh the california
20:18mba supported this round table we had a ton of lenders um you know which happened to be members
20:24of the california mba rwm was there apm was there just a litany of lenders and we were talking to the
20:30dfpi about you know what does the regulatory landscape look like what do you plan on doing this
20:36year you know what do what do audits look like what do fees look like what are you looking for
20:42for us to support you and it was a very open it to me um you know again i came from the lending world
20:49so when the dfpi knocked on my door i was it was always like you know you were throwing a surprise
20:54party okay everybody be quiet hide under your desk you don't want to answer the door it was a different
20:58landscape it was fantastic to have this very open dialogue of this is what the dfpi needs to do
21:06in order to continue supporting our industry and that you know what's being done done right for the
21:13consumer um it was enlightening and i was really thrilled to be a part of just listening in on the
21:19conversation i didn't say too much the announcement hadn't come out and again i'm still getting my training
21:24wheels off in that advocacy and legislative um you know side of the world dfpi is also compliance but
21:31you know it plays a big role in what is it required of an imb a mortgage lender uh you know um and so
21:40i think what's happening is state regulators are marching forward with you know ensuring that um the
21:49consumer is being dealt with in a fair manner um and that's why i brought up you know i i believe
21:55cra is going to be another big topic of conversation starting next year community reinvestment act um and
22:01so will we probably be looking at that again uh california is blessed though the state of california with
22:07our um the dfpi and the relationship that the california mba does have with them again it's very
22:13transparent it's very open as much as it can be um and so we get to share a lot of those insights with our
22:19our members and our lenders and uh solution providers i think part of being uh in a democracy
22:27is right there's lots of great things about it it can often feel like you know do the people
22:31who are making the decisions do they understand my point of view do they understand the consequences
22:37of what they do and so this kind of relationship like you're saying where you actually have a good
22:41relationship with the state regulators and they sit down and listen to you and you know you've been
22:46heard um it's kind of hard to put a price tag on that from my perspective i used to own a small
22:50business in texas and to feel like the people who are making the rules are hearing the voice of the
22:56people that are going to be affected by those rules in very specific ways is is just incredibly important
23:03yeah it is and it you know i will tell you it's really inspiring sarah and hopefully maybe we could
23:08have someone from housing wire come join us uh you know at legislation day you get to walk into
23:14the office and you you have the ear of the individual that can go to bat for you and the
23:20reason why you have that ear is they want to be educated they don't understand they don't understand
23:27the importance of having artificial intelligence support the underwriting process from the top of
23:34mind they think that's going to cause bias because they're just looking at data they don't understand
23:39how it actually provides the ability for a mortgage lender to be able to look at who is this consumer
23:45and what loan product works best for them and to be able to have the file move through in a more
23:51seamless manner um and and so when we get to talk to them about it and we get to explain what that
23:58really means from the perspective of a mortgage lender or from the perspective of a solution provider that
24:05uses ai they listen and they take that that that commentary forward oftentimes in those meetings
24:11business cards are exchanged additional information is provided outside of the legislation day um so we
24:18talk about democracy and and it's still there and it still works uh you know the california mba has been
24:24instrumental in ensuring that some of the legislative initiatives that are on table don't move forward
24:32uh because they're not they're not good for the consumer um it it doesn't provide a quality for the
24:38consumer and home ownership or whatever the case may be um but it is it is empowering and impactful to be
24:45involved in an organization that provides that level of support to the industry um and that was one of the
24:53reasons why you know going through the courtship of is this position right for me am i right for this
24:59position you know i still get the chills when i think about how impactful we are as an association
25:06to mortgage lending um in the state and nationwide and i get to support that with the robust board of
25:14directors and all of our members and we get to continue to push that forward um that's a dream job
25:20i can i can totally see why you're you're very suited to this role at this time right i mean it's
25:25it's the coming together of many things what do you think um mortgage lenders in california
25:30specifically struggle with when it comes to ai is it just the rate of the pace of change is it the
25:37is it the cost is it the understanding how it's really going to help them like what do you think
25:41is one of the biggest challenges there you know that's a that's a great question so when we talk
25:46about mortgage lending and technology and ai i think there's a couple of things you know there's fear
25:51factor um you know everybody hears ai out there and they think oh my gosh there's a robot that's
25:56doing this job now and that's super not cool because what's going to happen to my staff and
26:02is that robot going to understand my guides and how we work and operate um so there's a little bit of
26:08fear um i think a subcategory to that fear is is it going to be uh you know what is adoption going to
26:14look like um and then you know i hate to say this and this is agnostic of state or not but i think then
26:21uh comes into play you know a lot of solution providers will tout and shout ai but it isn't
26:27necessarily ai uh so the technologies can be somewhat similar um so i would think that from from a um from a
26:36lender's perspective you know why ai why should i do this is this right for my business i think those are
26:43some of the things that go through the lender's mind when they start looking for technology and
26:48solution provide and they're focusing on ai it makes a lot of sense and i feel like um what you
26:55guys are doing as a as an organization uh first of all a giant organization but for a giant state and
27:01just a lot of depth of expertise um in your leadership you particularly but also on the board
27:08um i went out to your uh event last year and just was very impressed with with who was sitting
27:15around the table who is representing uh the mortgage lenders of california it's pretty impressive
27:21and i feel like it's more important than ever right now because i mean there's a lot going on
27:25there's the affordability pressure there's you know a pretty great amount of change coming from in
27:30the regulatory compliance area and knowing okay what do i need to really be focused on at the same time
27:36there's like this ai opportunity and also just you know the the consumer out there still waiting to
27:42be served so i feel like it's a pretty complex thing yeah it is a complex thing and you touched
27:47on something really important i i will say it's uh where the california nba has the most robust team
27:55i have ever ever ever participated with our board of directors uh the level of intelligence understanding
28:03dedication and experience just blows my mind who's who's who is part of our team not to mention
28:10you know our our staff uh small and mighty and can create miracles and make things really happen
28:16um and that's what it takes really uh to to drive for an organization as you know same with housing
28:22ware right um we are at this pivotal time in our industry and that's really i think what gets me
28:30most excited and what i'm most passionate about there is so much opportunity and from my perspective
28:36it is literally knocking on our door and it's waiting for us as an industry to open the door and
28:43and i know in every you know from the depths of my soul that the california nba can support if you
28:52will to that analogy opening up that door for our members so that they can better support the
28:59consumer um and in the way that the consumer is kind of wanting again you know we had talked about
29:05the consumer it's a demand generation you know they want their answer now um they don't want to
29:12wait for someone to look at something with their eyes um you know they don't want to wait two weeks
29:19they want to know can i buy this home can i do this refi so it can pay for child's college or stash up for that
29:27expensive daycare that we were just talking about um and so the opportunity is there the opportunity is
29:34real um we're in we're in changing times um from a legislative political perspective but i also think
29:41there's opportunity within that um and and that's that's part of the reason why you know this the this
29:48function this position is so exciting to me one thing i wanted to uh maybe you know dive a little bit
29:55deeper into so we just we had our ai summit as i said and um one of the things there that's so
30:00interesting is like trying to figure out who's actually doing something interesting or even ai
30:06because there's a lot of things out there that's like it looks like ai but if you scratch the surface
30:12it it's actually um maybe it's not or it's it's something that's been around for quite a quite a long
30:17time that's being repackaged and you just hate to see people paying for something that is like
30:23you know some people in in in a position would know that like that's not that's not actually
30:28that innovative or it's not really going to solve the problem like some other things are so you know
30:34when we're doing the ai summit we're really trying to vet everybody that we're asking to speak
30:38and that we're spotlighting because we're like we want to make sure that those are people that are
30:42truly have something to say to the audience and are doing so i feel like that's something that you sort
30:47of alluded to here was like you guys are helping lenders with that problem maybe you can tell us more
30:52about that yeah absolutely and it's funny that you say that sarah because when you when you look
30:56at solution provides and what are they and what are they providing and it's not always is that
31:02technology really you know state of art or truly innovative it's also is it a right fit for x lender
31:10like we sit back and we know there are lenders that do non-qm or non-agency there are lenders that
31:15do agency there are lenders that are wholesale lenders there are lenders that are retail lenders and
31:21and there is you know specific uh solutions ai or ocr for those business channels if you will uh one of
31:30the things that i'm working with really closely uh with the board of directors at the california mba
31:35staff and of course susan uh because we're we're lucky enough to be able to keep around for a little
31:40bit longer um is how to create a way for accessibility to our members of information and data so before
31:50we were talking about the consumer as a demand consumer well you know the the people that run
31:56imbs and the people that run the solution providers uh organizations are that consumer and they you want
32:02everything immediately you want you want things now and so the california mba is is really doing a deep
32:09dive and trying to figure out how can we provide uh information data and knowledge so it's at the
32:17fingertips of our members so they can access here's this legislative initiative not only is here's
32:25this legislative initiative not only how does it directly impact me as an imb and how will it directly
32:32impact the consumer but i want to know about it right now and at the right time and the same thing
32:39is with technology so let's look at technology for a quick second our market's going to have a slight
32:45shift we don't know for how long but we're going to move out of the purchase market which is what
32:50everybody was living off of and we're going to move into a refi market right rates are going to start
32:54to dip it's going to be the refi boom we have an all-time uh equity position for our homeowners
33:01and so how do we support the um imbs the lending community within the california mba to understand what
33:10technology is best for that what can they plug in really quickly and it might be some type of crm or
33:16database management solution but what can they plug in really quickly to help them right now so that's
33:22one of our biggest initiatives that i'm really looking forward to is being a little bit of an
33:26innovative geek uh in supporting our our community as as the california mba is you know providing this
33:34additional support mechanism and we're expanding our community we want to make sure that we're helping
33:40our community stay on the pulse and have that information immediately i love that super important
33:47and that brings me to my next question which is how do people get in touch with the california
33:52mba if they haven't before really taken advantage of talking to you guys being connected what does that
33:59look like jump on our website you know we we are on it with our communication we've got a stellar team
34:05uh we're always looking to support our members and prospect members as soon as somebody clicks they
34:11want more information more information uh chris who's our uh director of membership engagement
34:17immediately reaches out to them and we jump on a call and walk them through what is it that you're looking
34:22for you know what where do you need support well this is how the california mba can support you
34:27um so jump on our website follow us on linkedin um we're we're there to support the industry as you
34:33know um and we do look forward to hearing from you perfect paul thank you so much thank you
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