- 11 months ago
A significant controversy has erupted in Bihar over the Special Intensive Revision (SIR) of electoral rolls, a process that could be implemented nationwide. Activist Yogendra Yadav compared the exercise to demonetisation, stating it improperly shifts the burden of proof onto the voter. This has raised concerns about the potential disenfranchisement of 10-15% of the poorest populations, with women and marginalized communities most at risk. Former Chief Election Commissioner O.P. Rawat also highlighted the timing of the revision as a 'problem area'. A central issue is the role of Aadhaar; the Supreme Court has clarified it is a proof of identity but not of citizenship, domicile, or age. Yadav noted that out of 7.24 crore people in Bihar, only 987 objections concerning foreigners on the voter list were filed, with the BJP filing none, countering narratives of widespread illegal voters.
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00:00Ladies and gentlemen, the last couple of months there has been one issue which has got the country divided on how it's been conducted, which is the special intensive role revision exercise in the state of Bihar.
00:16Many call it a master reset, purifying the voter rolls in Bihar.
00:20Now, word is coming in that this exercise will start all across the country come the second week of October.
00:27The issue is still in court, 7th October is going to be the final hearing of arguments where the SIR exercise in Bihar is concerned, but it's already set the political narrative and to a limit the social narrative also, be it the administrative efficacy or the constitutional legitimacy of this exercise.
00:49So is it a master reset or is it pure political manipulation by the election commission for disenfranchisement of voters as alleged by the opposition and a lot of petitioners and activists?
01:05And Yogendra Yadavji, you belong to the latter category, you think it's a sinister plot, it is a medicine which seems as a benign medicine which is supposed to be good for you, which is supposed to purify voter rolls, an exercise which happens practically in every state.
01:22But you say that this is a poisonous medicine, why?
01:25Thanks, Piti. First thing first, our voter rolls are defective, they are in need of improvement, election commission has the right and the duty to improve the quality of our electoral rolls.
01:40However, this special intensive revision is just like demonetization, a medicine in search of a disease, a medicine that proves worse than the disease itself, because it is not voter list revision, and that's a point I want everyone to understand, and I'm so happy that Rawat Saab is here, he would correct any mistake that I make about what I'm going to say.
02:10This is, yes, it is a master manipulative reset, because in the long run, it changes the very structure of how voting rights are to be decided in this country.
02:27So please remember, it's not a revision of Bihar's voters list. It is a reset of the rules by which voting rights are to be given, and three fundamental changes have been made, which have never happened in the history of this country in the last 75 years.
02:43Number one, the onus of being on the voters list has been shifted from the state to the voter.
02:52Number two, every single elector is being asked to produce documents, with the presumption being, I don't know whether you are Indian citizen or not.
03:03So the presumption of citizenship has been overturned. And number three, the 12 documents that the Election Commission used to accept in the past for special services have suddenly been replaced by 11 documents, which have lower evidentiary value.
03:20There is a 12th document now, Yoginder Yadavji, which is Diyadhar.
03:23That is thanks to the Supreme Court of India, against all protests and every possible dragging of feet by the Election Commission.
03:34And surely you want to know, why is it that Election Commission of India fought tooth and nail to ensure that one document that almost every Indian possesses should not be accepted,
03:48and other 11 documents, which are of lower evidentiary value, nine of which have nothing to do with the citizenship of India, they should be accepted but not Aadhar.
04:01That actually reveals the answer to your basic question. Is it a reset or manipulation?
04:07It is a fundamental reset in order to give, in order to make structural manipulation.
04:14And that is why the Election Commission was so keen that Aadhar should not be accepted, because it would take away the possibility of arbitrary exclusions.
04:24Upadhyaya Ji, you actually want this exercise to be conducted all across the country, which, you know, which is, what is strange in all of this viewers is because we are getting in a lot of information which is source-based.
04:37So yesterday we had breaking news coming in, source-based again from the Election Commission, that now the entire exercise will be conducted all across India.
04:46Now we don't know, it's a source-based information, but it seems it's going to happen.
04:51But Upadhyaya Ji, you have been the biggest advocate of, you call it purification of roles, you call it it's something that has happened before,
04:59and there is nothing new, this is all politics, this is all, you know, trying to whip up political emotions in the state of Bihar.
05:08Why? Especially after what Yogindra Yadavji has just said.
05:11Thank you very much, my PIL is running in the Supreme Court, you should be in the whole country, this is not after 15 or 20 years, it should be in a regular interval.
05:22It should be in the same way, Yogindra Yadavji has just said, you should be in the second place, you should be in the second place, it should be in the second place.
05:39It should be in the second place, the next format is the second place.
05:42Yes, yes.
06:12I am not a domicile proof, I am not a residence proof, I am not a citizenship proof, I am not a age proof.
06:22It's all written.
06:23But there have been 20 PIL files in Supreme Court and he says that this is the truth of the nature, this is the domicile and age.
06:33And that is an interim relief, I have a full trust, I have a 110% trust, the final hearing of the Supreme Court, I can say that it was a wrong order in which the government has accepted the law,
06:50the Supreme Court will recall its order.
06:52I am not sure.
06:54The Supreme Court says that there is a people in the world.
06:57Who will keep the people right?
06:59The election commission.
07:00The Supreme Court says that there is an election commission in Article 324.
07:03His work is to make the order list and to make the order list.
07:06How does the order list make the representation of the people act?
07:09The representation of the people act is not written anywhere.
07:12Is it age proof or residence proof or domicile proof?
07:16Which the part is written here, you are told about the laws but the reason there is also not a simple question.
07:20The result of the 2020 ones, from the laws that we have gotten to the have come to the state,
07:27the form 6th of the election commission.
07:31On the other hand, you give three documents, and you don't have to get to have proof of the origin.
07:37You have to tell us that we are the origin.
07:39So we don't have to prove that you are the origin or not.
07:43That's what you are talking about, if you give your name, you give your name, you give your age 18 years, you give your address proof, form 6.
07:54This form 6 is the form 6.
07:56In that form 6, I will become a voter today, but if I am in Bihar in Bihar, I will prove my experience for new voters to become a duality.
08:05Why is it? Because in Delhi, in 2014, the Bihar in Bihar in Bihar is the form 6, which must tell me that I am a voter in Bihar.
08:17I will not prove that I am a voter in Bihar in Bihar.
08:20Now, when I am a voter in Bihar, I will have to prove that I am a voter in Bihar in Bihar.
08:28Yes, this is the lowest denominator.
08:34No, no.
08:35The last person in the line will remain in Bihar.
08:39It is a confusion.
08:40I am telling you, this is the form 6.
08:42This is the form 6 in my hand.
08:43Yes, sir.
08:44This form 6 has come to the effect on the 17 June 2022.
08:46The 17 June 2022 was the form 6.
08:49There was no proof of age, no data birth, no proof of age.
08:54The form 6 came to the 17 June 2022.
08:57It was the age proof of age.
08:59But immediately, after that, on December 2022, the authority said that the authority is not age proof.
09:07The authority says that the authority is not age proof.
09:09The authority says that the authority is in my hand.
09:11It is not domicile proof.
09:13It is not citizenship proof.
09:14This notification says that the authority is in 2013.
09:17It is not age proof.
09:18And the authority to the authority, the authority to the authority, the authority is in the name of the authority.
09:24There is no three to the authority.
09:25The authority is not the issue of the authority.
09:26I understand.
09:27important
09:29confusion
09:31is
09:33a
09:35section
09:37is
09:39a
09:41section
09:43is
09:45182
09:47days
09:49is
09:51a
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10:01is
10:03a
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10:07is
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10:11section
10:13is
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10:17section
10:19is
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10:25is
10:27a
10:29section
10:31is
10:33a
10:35section
10:37is
10:41a
10:43section
10:45is
10:47a
10:49discussion
10:51especially
10:53with the people who are in this audience with us and all our viewers who are joining us from across the country
10:55get a better understanding
10:57whether are we
10:59actually looking at purification of the voter list nobody is against purification of the voter list it must happen it should happen it's a democratic process
11:09but i'll come back to you
11:11but
11:13the question in all of this comes in as the role of the ec the trust deficit right now which is there
11:27where the election commission is concerned especially vis-a-vis voters
11:31opposition
11:33is not
11:35as adequate or
11:37the trust deficit is so low
11:39that
11:40the ec
11:41should possibly step in and answer a lot of questions
11:43the
11:44first thing
11:45you've been in the
11:46you know
11:47you've been the
11:48cc
11:49timing
11:50is
11:51because
11:52in
11:532014
11:54the
11:55people
11:57elections
11:59happened on the basis of the 2024
12:01voter list
12:02after that this january
12:042025
12:05as there is a
12:06once again you look at the voter list
12:08and there is a reassessment of that voter list
12:10which happened as far back as january 2025
12:14yet we feel the need to conduct an intensive role revision
12:18especially in a manner of which where the onus of proving yourself as a voter is shifted to the voter
12:24would you think it's correct is what i'm asking sir
12:30election commission is mandated to have a revision of electoral roll before every election
12:35they have to do it
12:37but
12:38the issue
12:39here is
12:40twofold
12:41one is
12:42election commission
12:43generally never put any burden on the elector
12:46they
12:47automatically
12:48their machinery automatically
12:50ensures
12:51that every eligible
12:52elector
12:53is on the voter list
12:54and no
12:55ineligible voter
12:56is on the
12:57voter list
12:58this time
12:59the burden of proof
13:00of citizenship
13:01submitting document
13:02has been put
13:03on the
13:04voter
13:05that is
13:06a little problem area
13:07second thing is timing
13:08you said
13:09very correctly
13:10that before elections
13:12so close to election
13:13intensive revision was never conducted
13:16last intensive revision of Bihar was in 2003
13:19elections to Bihar assembly were in 2005
13:22same thing for other states
13:242002 to 2004
13:26all states went for intensive revision
13:28another thing intensive revision was necessitated
13:32because delimitation of boundaries used to take place
13:35and that's why
13:36intensive revision took place every 7, 8 years, 5 years
13:40but
13:41delimitation has never taken place after 2002
13:44and therefore election commission also decided
13:47not to have intensive revision
13:49in this 20 year period
13:51they just
13:52did summary revision
13:54before every election
13:55and that suffice
13:57only silver lining
13:58to this
13:59problem
14:00problem
14:01is
14:02September
14:0310th meeting
14:04of CEOs
14:05at Delhi
14:06I read
14:07in the newspapers
14:08that
14:09this approach
14:10is getting
14:11reversed
14:12to some extent
14:13like
14:14now CEOs
14:15have been tasked
14:16to
14:17compare the data
14:19of last intensive revision
14:21electoral
14:22and today's electoral
14:24so that
14:25it is now burden
14:26burden
14:27on them
14:28to find out
14:29what are the
14:30anomalies
14:31discrepancies
14:32where the
14:33duplicates
14:34where the dead voters
14:35all those things
14:36have now devolved
14:37on CEO
14:38the election commission's
14:39machinery
14:40that is a very
14:41good silver lining
14:42and I think
14:43we should
14:44feel
14:45satisfied
14:46that
14:47pan India
14:48intensive revision
14:49may be different
14:50so
14:52basically
14:53what you are saying
14:54is till now
14:55what we have witnessed
14:56in Bihar
14:57had been problematic
14:58but
14:59right now
15:00with the latest
15:01meeting that has happened
15:03because
15:04I think
15:05we can be very clear
15:06about one fact
15:07that we are going to witness
15:08an SIR like exercise
15:10across the country
15:11starting this October
15:12itself
15:13that
15:14could be very different
15:15and that is welcomed
15:16as well
15:17because
15:18A there is no election
15:19in order
15:20but there will be states
15:21like Assam
15:22there will be states
15:23like West Bengal
15:24who are going into elections
15:25next year
15:26and they will raise objections
15:27on that as well
15:28but for them also
15:30there will be plenty of time
15:31like this exercise
15:32will be over by December end
15:34and these elections
15:35fall due in April May
15:37so there will be plenty
15:38of time
15:39whereas in Bihar case
15:4030th September
15:41is the final publication
15:42and elections will be
15:43in first week of November
15:44most likely
15:45so
15:46that is the difference
15:47I'll come to you sir
15:48let me just go all the way back
15:49and after
15:50Yogendra ji
15:51I'll come back to Upadhai sahab
15:52Yogendra ji
15:53you wanted to respond
15:54to what
15:55Upadhai ji
15:56had stated
15:57only one request
15:58just read the adhaar
16:00please read it
16:01before the public
16:02please read it
16:03the basis of this adhaar
16:05this adhaar
16:06one sentence
16:07please read it
16:08first
16:09what is written
16:10sir
16:11this is very small
16:12you have to wear it
16:13so you can read it
16:14I will study it
16:15very carefully
16:16yes
16:17adhaar is not
16:18the promise of
16:19the promise of
16:20the promise of
16:21the promise of
16:22the promise of
16:23the promise of
16:24the promise of
16:25the promise of
16:26the promise of
16:27identity
16:28not proof of
16:29citizenship
16:30not proof of
16:31domicile
16:32not proof of
16:33age of birth
16:34from December 2020
16:35but
16:395
16:40more
16:41they will say
16:42just sit in stage
16:43I am also a
16:44yogendra ji
16:45you say
16:46work
16:47show a adhaar number
16:48I will take a biometric
16:49and which number
16:50will match
16:51which has a adhaar number
16:52I will call him
16:53to the stage
16:54to that yogendra ji
16:55and the other yogendra ji
16:56will sit in front of
16:57the adhaar
16:58ok
16:59now the talk of Yogendra ji
17:00is originally
17:01sitting in front of
17:02me
17:03so I ask
17:04you. Yogendra Yadavji, the larger question is also, are we somewhere down the line politicizing
17:09what is a regular exercise? Because O.P. Rabatji, everyone has issues and everyone has
17:15relevant issues where it comes down to the timing of it, at the timing of the Bihar elections.
17:22But are we running away with a political narrative around it, making it seem that this is a sinister
17:27exercise being carried at the behest of the Bharatiya Janata Party?
17:30Priti, allow me again to reiterate, no one has problems with cleaning and regular improvement
17:40of electoral rolls. That is not what SIR is about, because SIR is changing the rules by which
17:52voting rights is to be determined in this country. Rawat Saab, I completely agree with both the
17:58things, and he has probably confirmed what I said. Never in the history of this country
18:03has the onus of being on the voters list be shifted to the voter. What would be the impact
18:09of it? Just look at the U.S., look at South Africa. In both these countries, the onus of
18:16being on the voters list is on the voter. What proportion of adult population of the U.S.
18:22is on the voters list? 74%. In South Africa, 68%. In India, 99%. This is the difference. And
18:33even if SIR is carried out with the cleanest intention, with the finest officers, with the
18:40purest procedure, it is bound to take away 10 to 15% of the bottom of the society, because
18:48those are the ones who would proactively never register. That's number one. A lot
18:52of women. In fact, I'm glad you raised that, because the biggest victim of SIR have been
18:58women. All over the world, voters' lists are measured by three criteria. Number one is
19:06equity, on which Bihar voters' list had less women than they were in the population of Bihar
19:14to begin with. After the SIR, they are even less. That's equity for you. Completeness is
19:20the second criteria. Bihar had, as I said, India had 99%. Bihar had 97% to begin with. After
19:29SIR, it's down to 88%. Never in the history of India has any state fallen below 90% in terms
19:37of completeness. And accuracy, which is the main claim, do you know, election commission,
19:43Rawat Saab will confirm, has a red line. It says, if one single household has more than
19:4910 electors, there's something odd. Please go and check it. Do you know, after SIR, how
19:56many such households exist in Bihar? 16,90,000 households of this kind. After SIR. This is the
20:05accuracy. And how many voters? 2,78,000,000 voters. And since my friend has been excited
20:12about Rohingyas and Bangladeshis, can I just place simple figures before you so that he
20:17gets ample time to refute all those figures? You've already asked the first question. How
20:24many? Election commission told us these many dead, these many absent, these many untraceable,
20:29these many permanently removed? How many foreigners? Zero. But my friend said, doesn't matter. Let's
20:36wait. Because objections have been filed in the month of August. And the final results
20:42will come out. But we know the number of objections. Which is the one party so concerned about Bangladesh
20:48and Rohingyas? BJP. How many objections has the BJP filed? Final figures, not to be changed
20:55now. Zero. According to election commission of India, the BJP has filed zero objections in
21:01the state of Bihar. All right. Maybe BJP did not do its job. Have citizens done it? Three
21:08lakh objections have been filed in Bihar. How many of them pertain to foreigners? For information
21:15of my friend, the number is 987. Out of 7 crore 24 lakh people of Bihar, 987 applications
21:28have been filed on the grounds of someone being a foreigner. And Preeti, how many of them are
21:35possibly Rohingya or Bangladeshis because they have to be Muslims? I got someone to check all
21:40the names. There are only 215 Muslim names out of that. So, in the state of Bihar, out
21:50of 7 crore 24 lakh people, the number of objections, which have still to be settled, we don't know
21:57if all of them will be accepted, only 215 Muslims have been objected to on the ground that they
22:05will be foreigners. This is how the whole country is hoodwinked by the media, by the entire
22:15establishment, by the sources, which the media is very happy to reproduce. You keep the entire
22:22country in this cloud of SIR is going to remove Rohingyas and Bangladeshis who are in millions, and
22:30you keep it up with 215 possible cases, and many of them, Preeti, are from districts which
22:35have nothing to do with Bangladesh. This is the nonsense that goes on in this country.
22:41And that's why I want this to be put an end to.
22:44Yukindra Yadav ji, I just want to put one thing on record, the media has become the favourite
22:49whipping boy for most activists and political parties. Preeti, as a responsible journalist, may I ask you,
22:55why does media report sources? I can understand why defence ministry sources may be quoted, these are very sensitive matters.
23:05Why is it that media reports sources from election commission? Why don't you say, I will not take any sources from you, you come on record.
23:12Yukindra Yadav ji, like I said, the media today has become the favourite whipping boy, the sheer fact that you are on this stage putting your views forward is the media itself.
23:20But the sources bit, O.P. Rawat ji, it has never happened in the history of the election commission.
23:27Aap batao, you yourself or CEC, source based information kabhi jata tha. It's a constitutional body, sir, where you are directly, where the EC is,
23:36A, it has the most sweeping powers. The EC election commission of India has more powers than the election commission of any other country.
23:43You have a direct bearing on the citizenry, any other country. You have a direct bearing on the citizenry, the citizenry of this country. Yet, has it ever happened that source based information jati hai?
23:52I am coming to you, sir.
23:53I am coming to you, sir.
23:55Sources of the EC are saying, ab it will happen across India.
24:01Sources kaha se a gai? EC toho is supposed to be so transparent.
24:05That is the reality. EC has to be transparent and always open door, talking to everyone.
24:12And in fact, slightest provocation, even not directly but indirectly through some remote media channel, it was taken up by the election commission proactively.
24:24Proactively.
24:25So this source is business, we don't understand where they are coming from, but there are sources now in the EC.
24:29But I will come back to you, Upadhyaji. I know it's your turn, so I am circling back to you.
24:33Upadhyaji, the fact is, when the EC's made the announcement, let's go back couple of months.
24:40Main, what was the reason that the EC said that we are doing a special intensive role revision in Bihar?
24:50At that time, the most important thing was that the illegals, who are not Indians,
24:58to be removed, to be removed, to be removed, to be removed, to be removed from the voter role.
25:03Now, as Yoginder Yadav Ji has told us, there are a few years coming.
25:07You are saying that a final will come, of course, that will be made possible.
25:10And the same history, as you are saying, the Supreme Court will not change.
25:13Objections will not change. Objections have been freeze.
25:15This will not change.
25:17In that time, you will not get illegally, Bangladesh will not get illegally,
25:23which I am telling you, from them.
25:25So then, this is the whole exercise we have done on one intention.
25:31That is not fulfilled the intention.
25:34Look, there are two or three answers.
25:37The first answer is,
25:39Why is this saying,
25:41Why are you giving the vaccine for everyone?
25:44The disease of the corona came,
25:45This is why everyone was getting illegally.
25:47The first of the small and small deaths were affected,
25:49So the person who gets illegally was getting illegally.
25:51Now, you can say that,
25:52Why are you giving the vaccine for everyone at home?
25:54The corona is, so that
25:56There are 5 million people in Germany,
31:43Okay.
31:45So.
31:47I shudder when I hear the lawyer of the Supreme Court of India take a guarantee in a public platform about what the Supreme Court judgment is going to be. And I's shudder.
32:01On the foreigners and Rohingyas, after the 2016 data, on 15th of March 2019, the parliament
32:29was asked, how many foreigners have been detected anywhere in the country in the electoral
32:36rolls?
32:36The answer, Preeti, was three, given on the floor of the parliament.
32:43As for Aadhaar, no one has argued in the Supreme Court that Aadhaar is a proof of citizenship.
32:51Justice Bakshi asked, and Justice Bakshi asked a question which I want to be remembered,
32:56which is, yes, Aadhaar is not a proof of citizenship, but yes, out of the 11 documents that the
33:04Supreme, that the Election Commission has asked, nine of them have nothing to do with citizenship
33:10because the standard established wisdom and the order of the Supreme Court in the Hussain
33:18Lal case is that it is not the business of Election Commission to determine, Home Ministry
33:25has to determine who is a foreigner.
33:27The moment Home Ministry says, this is a foreigner, Election Commission removes the name.
33:31It is not Election Commission's job.
33:34The final comment that I wanted to make, Preeti, is forget all these specifics.
33:38You see, right now, the Election Commission will, in all probability, come up with a figure
33:43of something like 50 lakhs.
33:45Sir, it was not 65.
33:46We've reduced it to 50 lakhs.
33:47Because right now, the Election Commission is standing on its head because they are on
33:52a back foot.
33:53The moment Supreme Court vigilance and this weekly monitoring comes to an end, that is
34:00when the real game of SIR begins.
34:04Because right now, there has been a structural deletion.
34:07That's what you fear.
34:07But no arbitrary exclusion based on absence of documents.
34:12And the real game of SIR is going to be played in Bengal and Assam.
34:16That is the real thing.
34:18And that's why I want the Supreme Court to have a change.
34:20Hindi terminology, a trailer, but the real picture is going to play out in Assam and West
34:24Bengal.
34:25That's right.
34:25Upadhyay ji.
34:26Look, first of all, ultimately, everyone should be able to support the SIR, but it's
34:30just because of this.
34:32SIR, for the PIL file, maximum, there are those PILs that are trying to cover fire the
34:39fire.
34:40I have told you before, no one came from Bihar before.
34:44At least in the memory of Jagdeep Chokar, at least there's the one great patriot this country
35:05had who just passed away.
35:07At least in the memory of that person, one should not have such comments made about EDR.
35:12Please respect that person who was a patriot.
35:15Listen, listen, listen.
35:16And what you're saying, this is my PIL.
35:20And in my PIL, the Commission has said that we have an effedivate file in the Supreme Court
35:24that we will do SIR in the country and that we have to start.
35:27That's happening.
35:28That's happening.
35:29That's happening.
35:30That's not the source.
35:30That's not the source.
35:31That's the effedivate.
35:32Upadhyay ji, you're not from Bihar, what you're doing with PIL.
35:35You're saying that SIR should be in the country.
35:38Yes or no?
35:39I'm saying that it should happen.
35:41Why should it happen?
35:41Should the EC be a little more transparent, do you think the way it's handled the entire
36:04issue where Bihar is concerned hasn't really, it's, you know, it needs wanting.
36:09I fully agree with you.
36:11Transparency must go up.
36:13And I am assured by this 10th September meeting that PAN India, SIR will have a lot of more
36:21transparency.
36:22Than what we've seen.
36:23And will be satisfying.
36:24And will be satisfying.
36:25I appreciate all three gentlemen for joining us and I would like to because the last time
36:32of the last time of the press of the press of the press of the press is a press press press
36:33on the platform with us.
36:34And we would have loved to have him again.
36:38He was a vociferous voice where India's democracy is concerned.
36:42And it's a good time to remember him as we close this session.
36:45I appreciate all three of you for joining us.
36:49And we leave it for ladies and gentlemen, for you to decide, we try to simplify it, whether,
36:54you know, there's a sinister plan, manipulation as the opposition or some activists suggest,
37:01or even some former EC suggests, maybe not sinister but not as transparent as it should
37:06have.
37:07Or this is just purification exercise which is taking place as Upadhyay ji is stating.
37:13With that, thank you all three of you for joining us.
37:15We know on the 7th of October what the Supreme Court has to say in the final arguments.
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