- 4 months ago
In this powerful episode of Life Confessions, Taylor’s University senior lecturer and refugee education advocate Dr Hema Letchamanan challenges us to rethink what success in education really means.
Category
🎵
MusicTranscript
00:00Education is political. You know, education is never neutral.
00:04You know, refugee children in Malaysia are still excluded from the national education system.
00:09What do you think that message sends to all Malaysians about who we think deserves to learn?
00:16Education is conditional. There are conditions to who gets access, who deserves quality education.
00:23Every child matters, irrespective of who they are, where they come from.
00:27It's about every child getting the opportunities that they deserve.
00:31Quality education should be made available to them.
00:34There are also those who are in the school, but they are not getting the opportunities that they deserve because the curriculum is one size fits all.
00:50Welcome back to another episode of Life Confessions.
00:53Another great guest joins us and this time we have Hema Lachamanan.
00:58She is the Senior Lecturer at the School of Education, Faculty of Social Sciences and Leisure Management at Taylor's University.
01:06Project Leader of the Knight School as well under Taylor's Education for All Impact Lab.
01:11Hema, you do it all.
01:13Thank you, Terry.
01:14I'm guessing sleep is the one thing you don't do based on all the work that you are involved in.
01:20Thank you so much for joining us today.
01:22Thank you for having me.
01:24Now, you know, you've dedicated your career to shaping the way future educators think, teach and lead.
01:30What first drew you to education as a lifelong pursuit?
01:35Actually, it was pure chance.
01:40I was, as many young people can probably relate, I was lost moving from doing mechanical engineering to software engineering.
01:50And then I got a scholarship to do a Bachelor of Education in the UK.
01:54And I took it because of UK.
01:57Right.
01:58And who doesn't want to go to UK?
02:01Why not, right?
02:02Yeah.
02:02So, and when I started my bachelor's degree there and I visited the schools there, which were very different to the schools that I've been to, the schools that I studied.
02:14And that is where I saw the difference in terms of education, in terms of teaching, how teachers teach in classroom, how teachers speak to students.
02:25And I fell in love with teaching and I thought, you know, I'll come back and do something here.
02:31Did it surprise you that you fell in love with teaching?
02:33Was it not something that you'd even considered before?
02:36No, no.
02:36I mean, my parents said, you know, I don't know if they're lying or they're telling the truth, but they said that I've always wanted to be a teacher when I was young.
02:44But I have no recollection of this.
02:47So I can attest to it.
02:49But yes, it did surprise me.
02:51And I think I've stayed in teaching.
02:53I started as a primary school teacher and then moved on to teaching in university now.
02:59But I've stayed on for as long as I have because of one thing.
03:05You know, every time a child or even, you know, a young person learns something or realizes something, you see that light in their eyes.
03:14And that light has inspired and motivated me to stay on.
03:18Wow.
03:19So it's like, and you see this happen over and over again.
03:22Over and over.
03:23Every time you see that understanding that happens in someone that you're teaching.
03:28Yes.
03:29Yes.
03:29And I see that with the orang asli children that I teach.
03:33I have taught street children in Nepal and where there's absolutely no resources.
03:40And, you know, so you have to make do with the environment, whatever that's around you to be your teaching aid, your tools.
03:48And when they finally get it and they go like, you know, that aha moment, that's the satisfaction that money can't buy.
03:56Tell us about the most interesting experience you've had teaching in the multiple different places and schools that you've been to.
04:06I think the one thing that is the same is that learners are always curious.
04:15Children are curious.
04:16Even young people, they're always curious.
04:17And how do we use that curiosity, you know, to get them to learn?
04:26And that is the challenge, you know, for me, that's very exciting.
04:31Because how do I tap into that curiosity to get them to ask questions, to get them to learn, to get them to finally have that aha moment?
04:38And get it to grow.
04:40Get it to grow.
04:41So, get it to, you know, education is all about believing in yourself, you know, raising yourself as team.
04:48That's what learning is, right?
04:50Knowing your self-worth.
04:52And teaching is not just imparting knowledge.
04:54And especially in this day and age where information is at fingertips, teachers are not needed to impart knowledge anymore.
05:04You know, teaching goes beyond that, right?
05:07Because you don't need teachers to tell you.
05:09You can learn it on your own.
05:10You can ask Church of PT, right?
05:12Whether it's true or not, that's a separate story.
05:15But teachers and teachers come in to get you to think, to get you to question whether what AI is telling you is true or not.
05:26Don't just accept it as face value.
05:28Be an informed citizen.
05:30So, it's not about getting the information anymore.
05:32A teacher is there to show you what to do with the information.
05:36What to do with the information, yes.
05:37And at Taylors, you wear multiple hats.
05:41Senior lecturer, project leader, mentor to countless aspiring educators as well.
05:46How do you balance, you know, theory of learning and then practicing it and empathy in how you prepare students for the realities of today's classroom as well?
05:56How do you make this all, this soup of education?
06:00I teach my students through real stories.
06:06You know, real stories of children whom I work with on a daily basis, of real classrooms.
06:12I take them out to visit real classrooms out there and I show them what, you know, privilege is and that not everybody has the same opportunities.
06:26And I think this is university's responsibility, you know, in Europe and in the UK, you know, universities are gearing towards what you call a third mission, you know, being purposeful learning.
06:41So how do we get students to be, to have, to find purpose in their learning, which goes beyond just grades and your CGPA?
06:52What's your contribution to the communities, the immediate environment that you live in, your contribution to the society?
07:00And as teachers, you know, and teachers to be, because I train, you know, student teachers, it's very important that they realize of different communities that are out there, communities which are vulnerable, disadvantaged in many ways.
07:16And what can they do? And all of this, yes, you know, you can teach the theories, you know, you can teach them poverty, you can teach them, you know, inequality, injustice, but until and unless they themselves see it, theory is just going to remain something abstract.
07:35Right. It's to see what they learn in the real world.
07:39It's to apply the theory into practice. And for that, they need to go out of the classroom to see it.
07:46Would you say it's also an opportunity for them to see what they'll be doing in the future?
07:51Like this is what they learn now. And now they're looking around them, you're bringing them out into the real world so they can imagine what they're learning and how to then utilize it in the future when they become a part of a community and they're working in the community.
08:04Yes, yes. And even to do it now, so you don't have to wait until you graduate, until you start working.
08:10But now, what can you do now? With the little time that you have, everybody can do something.
08:18Expanding the classroom.
08:20Expanding the classroom. So using the skills that they have already to see how that can also benefit other people.
08:27So it's so holistic, almost like.
08:33Do you find that the relationship between an educator and a student now has changed compared to previous generations?
08:42It has. Like I said, we are not there to give information because information is readily available out there.
08:51You know, and what our relationship with students are is that we are there to empower them to to understand themselves better, to have their agency, to have their voice, to to be able to decipher what is wrong, what is right.
09:13And also to get them to contribute, you know, so you have these skills.
09:20You've been learning so many things. How are you using them?
09:23What are you using it for? How is this benefiting other people?
09:28Right. In your experience, I mean, we've learned from multiple sources,
09:37whether it's online or whether it's been interaction with this current generation of students that they they are generally they generally seem more comfortable speaking about mental health,
09:50their own mental health, generally speaking about the state of mental health support among their peers as well.
09:57In your experience, is the mental health crisis that we seem to be facing among university students more about academic pressure or is it something more deeply rooted in,
10:11you know, issues that are internal like identity, purpose, belonging? What have you seen?
10:17I think it's a little bit of both, really. There is also, of course, academic pressure, pressure to succeed, pressure to get good grades.
10:28But there is also the sense of belonging, the isolation, because when everything has moved digital, which is great.
10:37But what it also does is that then you don't have many friends, you don't have people around you to talk to.
10:45Right. So there is a lot more, you know, students that I've met who said that when they don't have that many friends, they don't go out.
10:54So it's coming to class and then it's going home, you know, playing games.
11:01You have online chat with, you know, people in the virtual world, but not with real people, you know.
11:07So it's a little bit of both that has caused this mental health issues.
11:12And of course, during COVID, where again, isolation has, you know, caused immense mental health concerns and even post-COVID,
11:22that people are still struggling to cope with that.
11:25Yeah. People seem to, on that note, there is this sense that of moving on, that many, even parents seem to feel like,
11:34oh, it's over, let's just move on, when there are still residual impacts of what, not just the students went through,
11:42but all of us went through during the pandemic season that we went through, right?
11:48Or as some of the students will tell me, the pandemic era, this word that they seem to use in every aspect now while they're dealing with it.
11:57So how, how as an educator, do you support them through this?
12:02So at Taylors, we have very good counselling support.
12:08And, you know, we also at school level, at department level, we encourage students to, you know, to tell us if they have any issues.
12:18And, you know, not to be, not to feel alone, you know, that they're never alone in this, in this journey.
12:26So there's always somebody to support and they have to reach out, you know, they only have to reach out and, you know, we can guide them to different support.
12:34But it's also about sometimes tweaking assessments to suit students, you know, whether it is mental health or any other, you know, concerns and challenges that they have.
12:49And how can we support them in terms of learning?
12:52How can we support them, you know, if the assessments that have been designed, you know, are not something that they can cope with because of their condition?
13:02Yeah, you know, so there has to be a certain degree of flexibility in the curriculum also to be able to adapt and to meet the students where they are.
13:12Right.
13:14When it comes to the perception of which student struggles when it comes to mental health, there is this opinion of many people that it's mostly the students who are high achievers and those who are struggling that struggle the most with mental health.
13:31That the students that are in the middle are the ones that are coping best.
13:38Is this a fair opinion?
13:40Not necessarily.
13:42You can have mental health concerns among high achievers, average and even the low achievers too.
13:48You know, so mental health is not something that is unique to just high achievers, which is a common perception because, you know, that there is, you know, you know, once you've got your straight A's, then there is a pressure to continue getting the straight A's.
14:01But there's also the pressure with the average ones because you really don't know what you're doing.
14:07You know, you're getting decent grades, but you don't know where you're going, that loss, you know, sense of loss, sense of no direction.
14:15That so many of us felt when we were that age.
14:17Yes.
14:18Yeah.
14:18Now coupled with all the modern issues that are added to that pool of issues.
14:26You know, I'm not special.
14:27I'm just average, you know, I'm doing okay.
14:30But what keeps me going, you know, there's nothing that's driving me.
14:36And so you just wake up and there's just this monotonous life and that causes mental health.
14:43You know, that causes a lot of pressure and stress.
14:46You mentioned purpose earlier, and that is a key factor in finding that balance to know that what you do serves something.
14:56Yes.
14:56Right.
14:56A place for you to belong.
14:59Do you think our current higher education system genuinely empowers students to thrive?
15:06Or is it still stuck, you know, just measuring success through narrow definitions like grades, employability and prestige?
15:14Now, this is speaking widely, you know, about education.
15:19Now, I think universities, I know Taylors for sure, but, you know, definitely other universities as well, have moved beyond just grades and employability to purposeful learning, to service learning.
15:36A lot of public universities in Malaysia focusing on service learning.
15:41So contribution to the communities, which is what universities are.
15:45You know, they are not, they don't exist in silos.
15:47They're not ivory towers, you know.
15:50So universities' main purpose, you know, should be to address the needs of the society.
15:56And so through this is how you empower students, you know, to finding their purpose, you know.
16:06Why are they in the university?
16:08Yes, to get good grades, to get a job at the end of it.
16:13But what else?
16:13How else can your experience be curated to maximize your learning, which doesn't just come from lectures and tutorials, but through interaction with other people?
16:26Right.
16:26So again, it comes back to that holistic approach that more education, more institutions of higher learning need to take.
16:37That old way of thinking that it's just cram, cram, cram, exam, exam, exam, exam, seems to be exactly like it sounds outdated.
16:48There needs to be more to it than that, even though that is still a part of the education life of a student.
16:54You can't accept, you know, you can't escape from exams.
16:57That's for sure.
16:58As a student, definitely there will be exam, but there are also alternative assessments, project-based learning, you know, problem solving, you know, assessments that are coming out.
17:11But, you know, so there are various ways of testing, you know, students, the same thing.
17:17So it's not purely exam-based.
17:19And when I was in university also, you know, I participated in a lot of activities like this.
17:26And I think that was how I got into working with refugees in the UK.
17:33That was my first experience working with refugee children in the UK.
17:35And I did my master's dissertation research on refugee children in Malaysia.
17:44And that has led, you know, me to starting the night school project because I saw the gap in there.
17:51And it was just not me.
17:53So, so many of us, you know, my friends included, who participated in so many projects and activities outside of our classroom,
18:01which has shaped the way we are today.
18:04You know, our values, our life, our perspectives even.
18:09Even decisions that you've made for your career have been affected by the way you were educated, right?
18:16You mentioned the night school.
18:17You've trained over 60 refugee educators through the night school.
18:22Tell us more, like for a person who may not know what the night school is.
18:25Tell us about what the night school is.
18:27So, we started the night school three years ago to train teachers of refugees in Malaysia so that all children, all refugee children can get quality education in their learning centres.
18:42Now, this happens at Taylor's.
18:45So, it happens at Taylor's and also online.
18:49So, there are a mix of physical and online classes.
18:53So, it's called the night school for that very reason.
18:56It happens at night mostly, the online classes.
18:59So, it's a weeknight class that teachers join us.
19:04It's an elongated programme of six months long.
19:06And we keep it that long because we cover the core foundations of teacher education like pedagogy, assessment, curriculum, technology, using technology in learning, trauma-informed learning, and also socio-emotional learning, which are all key components of, you know, teacher education.
19:26Right.
19:26And the teachers of refugees go through a series of classes and also school visits, mentorship.
19:34So, it's a completely 360 degree experience for the teachers who come in and stay with us for six months.
19:41Wow.
19:41What pushed you to initially take on this cause?
19:47And why, is there a personal reason why you've taken an interest in it?
19:52So, I started working with refugee children and teachers of refugees for about, I think, maybe close to 15 years now in Malaysia.
20:02And there's one story that has stayed with me throughout when, you know, when I interviewed a teacher, a refugee teacher many years ago as part of my master's dissertation.
20:15So, he said that if he goes out and washes plates in restaurants, he would earn more than teaching in the school.
20:25Wow.
20:26So, with that very little salary and, you know, of course, they also have family.
20:33They have, you know, children that they have to support, their own children that they have to support.
20:37But still, they come back and teach in the school, in the learning center, because they see the value in education for refugee children.
20:47And the hope and the sense of normalcy that only the learning center can give, you know, because when your life has been disrupted immensely, you know, more than any one of us could imagine, you know, because we've never been part of that, you know, experience conflict of that nature, war of that nature.
21:04When your life has been, you know, when your life has been, you know, disrupted at that scale, education is one way to give that sense of normalcy back, right?
21:14Right. Routine.
21:16That sense of routine.
21:17Yeah.
21:17And, you know, so seeking asylum in Malaysia, you know, moving away from everything that you know, you know, to a completely new place.
21:26So, the children need that education.
21:29They need quality education.
21:30And there are not that many teachers there to serve these students.
21:37Within their own community.
21:38Within their own communities.
21:40And so, these teachers show up despite the low stipend that they get.
21:46It's not even a real salary.
21:47So, it's more like a stipend that they get.
21:49So, despite the low stipend, despite the many challenges, despite the trauma that they themselves face, because many of them are refugees themselves.
21:56So, they too have gone through that trauma and they carry that in here.
22:01And they have to put that aside because when they come into the classroom, they have to deal with the children's experiences, the children's trauma.
22:11And I thought they're doing amazing work, but with very little support.
22:17And what's the best way to support them is to give them that, you know, the educational background, the teacher education foundation so that they're better prepared in the classroom.
22:30And that's the reason why we started the nice school.
22:32It sounds like it's such a gratifying experience for a person to be able to get educated, to be an educator, a better educator for this particular issue.
22:47To go into their own community or even for a person from the outside to enter and make a difference in the lives of these children.
22:56Have you heard stories of what the kids say about the experience that they've been through?
23:02Thanks to the night school.
23:04Yes.
23:05So, you know, when the teachers come in, they learn new ways of teaching, you know, fun ways of teaching.
23:14So, how do you make maths fun?
23:18And I'm saying specifically maths because a lot of people, you know, complain about maths being, you know, difficult.
23:24You are preaching to the choir.
23:27So, maths being difficult, maths being stressful, maths being not fun, right?
23:32So, we teach the teachers how to gamify maths lessons, you know, with little resources, you know.
23:39So, because we, the reality is that many learning centres have limited resources, right?
23:45So, how do we conduct science experiments without science labs, using resources that are available, home ingredients that are available, right?
23:55And so that students not just learn from textbook, but they can also do some hands-on experiments to really understand science concepts.
24:02And when these teachers go back and implement the strategies and the techniques that they have learned through night school, students suddenly find learning is fun.
24:14Yeah.
24:14Students suddenly find learning is much more engaging.
24:17And they get excited and they look forward to learning.
24:21Right.
24:22They rediscover, or some rediscover, but some discover for the first time that learning can be something that is fulfilling.
24:30Yes.
24:31You know, refugee children in Malaysia are still excluded from the national education system.
24:37What do you think that message sends?
24:41What message does that send?
24:42Not just to them, but to all Malaysians about who we think deserves to learn.
24:48The message that it sends is that education is conditional.
24:55You know, so there are conditions to who gets access.
25:00Who deserves.
25:00Who deserves education, quality education.
25:04You know, and it also looks at how, you know, inequitable education is.
25:12That, you know, not everyone has opportunities, you know, to get quality education.
25:22Right.
25:23And resources are always something that are also an issue.
25:27Some might say the refugee crisis is too big or political for educators to solve.
25:33What would you say to that, especially given your lived experience doing this work on the ground?
25:39You've been there among the community, right?
25:41Education is political.
25:44You know, education is never neutral.
25:47But what I can say to educators is that, you know, every child matters, irrespective of who they are, where they come from.
26:01It's about every child getting the opportunities that they deserve.
26:09And education should be made available to them.
26:13Quality education should be made available to them.
26:16And what we see, what I see in the ground, you know, day-to-day working with not just refugee children, but with orang-asli children, with children from, you know, low-income families, Malaysian children from low-income families, is that there is this disparity in terms of education.
26:37Right?
26:38Disparity in terms of not just access.
26:41Some people have access to education, to schools.
26:46Some people don't have access.
26:47So in the case of refugee children, they don't even have access to the school.
26:51But there are also those who are in the school, but they are not getting the, you know, the opportunities that they deserve.
27:01Right.
27:01You know, because the curriculum is one size fits all.
27:05So, you know, students who are, you know, behind in certain, you know, areas are not getting the support that they need, for example.
27:17Right.
27:17So it's, so what is getting everybody into the school?
27:23Right.
27:23Passing the school gate.
27:25And then what happens after that?
27:27You know, how do we ensure everyone thrives when they're already in there?
27:31Yeah.
27:31So that's the other question that we have to ask.
27:33Because getting the, getting a child to a school is, is great.
27:39It's the first challenge.
27:40Yeah.
27:40So we overcome that.
27:41Yeah.
27:41And then what happens after that?
27:43Yeah.
27:43Are they learning?
27:44What happens in the building?
27:44What happens in the building?
27:45Are they learning?
27:46Yeah.
27:47Are they being given the opportunities that they need?
27:49Right.
27:49And one of the factors that will contribute to that education would be the educators themselves.
27:57What do you think is the most dangerous or worrying mindset you think educators in training,
28:03walk into your classroom with, and how do you help them unlearn this?
28:07Like, do they come in with these perhaps misconceptions or perceptions that you need, you feel need some sort of correction?
28:16I think the perception that they come in is that teaching is, it's not too difficult.
28:27Oh.
28:29You know?
28:30They think it's going to be easy.
28:31They think it's going to be easy.
28:32Some, okay.
28:32Some people think it's going to be easy.
28:34And that's a misconception that needs to be addressed in the beginning because otherwise they're in for disappointment.
28:42You know, teaching is not, it's never easy, you know?
28:46And more so now in this day and age, teaching is getting more difficult.
28:50And I found that because, you know, I was this, one of these straight A students, you know, during my undergraduate days, right?
29:00So I thought, well, I've got, you know, all the theories.
29:03I've learned all the theories, you know.
29:05I've aced it.
29:07And then I'm in this classroom in a Felda in Pahang, coming back from the whole UK experience.
29:16And I was like, what do I do?
29:22You know?
29:23So I was, I literally had that question when standing in the class with 30 students staring back at me.
29:29I go like, what do I do?
29:31You know?
29:31So the reality is a lot more challenging.
29:36Right.
29:36And the fact that we are responsible for so many lives.
29:40And I say this, you know, you're literally responsible for so many lives because teachers can either make or break a child.
29:47Yeah.
29:48Right.
29:48You know, and so it's a huge responsibility.
29:53And it's not something to be taken lightly.
29:55How do you bring these educators in training to the realization that they need to prepare themselves?
30:03It is not easy.
30:04Well, there's only so much that we can say, you know, but of course we also have internships.
30:13So, and I see students coming in in the first semester, second semester, who are very optimistic, who think that, okay, you know, this is not too difficult.
30:25You know, engineering is probably more difficult than, you know, teacher education.
30:29Right.
30:30And then they go to school and they observe things and now they are seeing themselves as a teacher.
30:36They're no longer a student in the school.
30:38And suddenly they've got, you know, there's a shift in perspective.
30:41And they come back and, you know, when we talk about it and they go like, oh my God, I didn't realize this when I was a student.
30:49Which is a good thing that they're realizing it, you know, while they're still in that safe space of that, you know, in university.
30:55And you've heard this happen multiple times.
30:59Yes, multiple times.
31:00What's your reaction to them when they come to you with this realization that you have known all along already at this point, right?
31:07Well, I obviously try to keep a straight face and, you know, talk to them.
31:13But, you know, but it's something that I love inside.
31:16I say, well, good that you've got this realization that, you know, so many things, you know, they always come.
31:21Oh my God, miss, you would not believe it.
31:23This is what I saw.
31:24You know, how come I never realized this when I was a student in the school?
31:28And on the inside, you're like, yes, now you know.
31:31Yes, good that you know it now.
31:33You know, what's your greatest hope for the next generation of Malaysian educators?
31:39What do you want to see?
31:43It's about, I think what I would like to see is them having the skill to adapt.
31:53It's an important skill, I think, for all of us, especially for teachers, because we are living at unprecedented time from the pandemic to AI.
32:06We are reimagining education and a lot of things we are learning as we go.
32:11There is no template yet for a lot of things.
32:13And so teachers have to have the skill to adapt, to teach children, their students, to better prepare for that uncertain future.
32:26You know, so because there is no template, it's, you know.
32:31Adaptability is so important.
32:32It is, it is.
32:33It is risky.
32:35It is because there's no tried and tested method yet.
32:39So teachers have to constantly learn.
32:41And what's your biggest fear for them?
32:44That they will burn out.
32:47Oh.
32:48You know, that, you know, so they go in with a lot of optimism and ambition, you know.
32:54But sometimes the environment isn't supportive of people who want to empower, people who empathize, you know.
33:05And that can cause burnout.
33:08And for them to keep going, having experienced this setback when they join the actual working world.
33:18Yes.
33:19To be able to hold on to that spirit of wanting to be a better educator when it feels like the people around you or the environment isn't actually conducive to that.
33:31Wow.
33:32Very eye-opening.
33:33We've come to the rapid-fire questions part of this conversation.
33:38So whatever comes to mind first, you can change your mind later on in life.
33:42Right.
33:42Okay.
33:43That is how you're feeling today.
33:44Sure.
33:45Okay.
33:45First question.
33:47Academic excellence or emotional intelligence, more important?
33:51Emotional intelligence.
33:52Learning can't happen otherwise.
33:54Right.
33:55Traditional classroom or community-based learning?
33:59Neither.
34:00Oh.
34:01Can I explain or just...
34:02Sure.
34:02Please explain.
34:03Please do.
34:04I need...
34:05We need the explanation.
34:08I think what is important is an environment that is student-centered, that is context-responsive.
34:15So we have to meet students where they are, not where the system wants them to be.
34:21And for that, we have to create an ecosystem of learning.
34:26So not silos, like traditional classroom or community.
34:29So it's neither this or that.
34:31Right.
34:32Right.
34:32Again, it comes to that ability to be flexible.
34:35And for like the educator themselves, the system itself also needs to be molded to fit what or be flexible enough to fit what a student needs.
34:45Yeah.
34:45Definitely needed an explanation for that one.
34:47What's the most underrated trait an educator should have, in your opinion?
34:52Humility.
34:54Oh.
34:54The willingness to listen.
34:56Sometimes students, all students want to, is just somebody to listen.
35:00Not to lecture or teach.
35:03Just listen.
35:04Which happens quite often.
35:05Which happens quite often.
35:06Yes.
35:07What's the one phrase you wish people would stop using when talking about refugee education?
35:13Yes.
35:14I think what people should stop saying, or some people should stop saying, is that, well, you know, it's enough.
35:23You know, whatever that they are getting here, it's enough.
35:26You hear them say, you hear people say it a lot.
35:28They should be grateful.
35:29They should be grateful.
35:31It's enough.
35:31What they're getting here, you know, they're getting something.
35:33They should be grateful about it.
35:36Education is, you know, it's a right.
35:39It's not a privilege for some.
35:41Right.
35:42Right.
35:43If you could bring one change to teacher training programs in Malaysia tomorrow, what would it be?
35:50To get students to learn how to be adaptable, to be flexible, and to create, you know, to be teachers who can teach a generation, you know, prepare a generation for the future.
36:08Right.
36:10What's one book that you think every aspiring teacher should read before they graduate?
36:16Pedagogy of the Oppressed by Paolo Freire.
36:18One of my favorite.
36:19Still powerful, still very much needed.
36:22I may need to read this book as well.
36:23So, I'm not an educator, but...
36:25You should.
36:26You should.
36:26Okay.
36:28And this is the final question for the rapid fire question.
36:34Oh, no.
36:35That was the last question, actually, for the rapid fire.
36:37This is the question, this last question that we ask all of our guests.
36:42Okay.
36:42Put yourself in the shoes of our Prime Minister for a day.
36:47Let's say you are Prime Minister of Malaysia for a day.
36:52What would that change be if you could make one change and why?
36:56Just one change.
36:57Just one change.
36:58Just one change.
36:59There's so many changes I want to make.
37:01Strike everything out of the list.
37:03It's the one change that you could make.
37:05I think, let's focus on education because that's where I come from.
37:09I think that one change that I would make if I were the Prime Minister is to do a system-wide recalibration.
37:21In education, you can't just do one change and expect everything to change.
37:27So, it's systemic, right?
37:30So, the recalibration has to happen at every level, right?
37:34From the policy, we've got a new blueprint that's coming up, which is great.
37:39But the implementation of that blueprint, the curriculum, new curriculum that's going to come in in 2027,
37:47and then, you know, to teacher training, to students, to resources.
37:52So, it's one, you know, I think I'm being greedy.
37:56I know you said one change, but I'm going to put in everything.
37:59So, one change is to review the entire system.
38:02That's the one thing you're doing.
38:04So, it's to recalibrate the entire system.
38:07That's the one change, yes.
38:09Spoken like an educator, you managed to get everything you wanted with the one change.
38:13With the one change, yes.
38:14With the one change.
38:15Well, thank you so much for enlightening us today on, you know, the state of education,
38:20education, and also the students now, the way they think, and how we can better support them.
38:26And the great work that you do for refugee children and educators as well.
38:31Thank you so much, Hema, for joining us today.
38:33Thank you, Terry, for having me.
38:34And we will see you in the next episode of Life Confessions here on The Shock Podcast.
38:39Life Confessions
Be the first to comment