- 5 months ago
Taylor’s University’s Dr Phang Swee King gets real about AI, robotics and drone tech in Malaysian classrooms—are we empowering creators or training future replacements?
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00:00Are we building tools to empower humans or are we training students to actually become
00:06replaceable ultimately? Are we building things that are going to replace us?
00:09AI can be a guidance but not an end product for us. You have this problem,
00:13you have to follow this step one, step two, step three as a solution.
00:17There's not enough of critical thinking that's injected to the students.
00:20You know, great is just to measure of what you know today.
00:23It doesn't measure what you will know in the future.
00:30Welcome to another episode of Life Confessions.
00:36And yet again, another amazing guest joins us. With me today is Dr. Pang Sui King,
00:42who is Program Director of the Bachelor of Mechatronics Engineering with Honours,
00:46School of Engineering, Faculty of Innovation and Technology from Taylor's University. And just
00:52having said that, we are looking forward to finding out more about what you have to say
00:57about students and the field in general. How are you feeling today? Are you ready for this?
01:03Yeah, definitely ready for this.
01:04I think you talk about this all the time, right?
01:06Yes, yes.
01:07You know, let's start with how you've chosen a field where the pace of innovation is relentless, right?
01:13What first sparked your passion for robotics and smart technology? Was it like curiosity,
01:19necessity or something else? What began this journey for you?
01:22Well, since young, I love to build things and take things apart. This sounds contradicting.
01:29Yeah.
01:29But one toy that fits this is the Lego.
01:32Right.
01:32So I had a lot of Lego toys and especially I like the Technic sets where they have joints and some
01:39of the Technic sets even have motors that can control the movements. So they build up different,
01:45like different cars or different tractors or even different robotics arm and so on.
01:50You can trace it all the way back to that moment.
01:52Yes, I believe so because I still keep all the Legos that I had since young. And I think most of
02:01time it's about curiosities. I love to take things apart especially. I had some old TVs and old radios at home.
02:08Right.
02:08I take apart. I took apart as in a primary school just using a screwdriver.
02:13How do your parents feel about this?
02:16They are okay with that because I actually seek their permission and say, can I take this apart?
02:20I want to see what happens. I will see how come when I turn the dial, the needles can turn as well.
02:26And there's one particular incident that I remember for life is that I used to cut off
02:31all the components from the radios.
02:33Right.
02:34And there was this cylindrical shaped capacitors.
02:36Okay.
02:37And as I hold it, I got an electric shock from that. And since then, I was so afraid of cylindrical
02:44capacitors until today.
02:46Until today.
02:46Whenever I see cylindrical capacitors, I will use a tweezers to actually pick it up.
02:50I will not use my hand anymore.
02:51Wow.
02:53And yet you still do what you do in spite of that.
02:55Yeah, that is something small.
02:57That's interesting.
02:58Yeah. So, so as I proceed to university, I noticed that this is essentially in the field of
03:04engineering that really into this. And what's more is about robotics because like building
03:10things that can move, that can control the joint movements, that has some electronics on it.
03:16It's about robotics. So that is why I'm currently in the robotics field.
03:19That's very exciting because when someone hears that this is what you do for a living,
03:23I'm sure when people find out for the first time, they've got so many questions to ask you
03:28as well. Like random people will find upon finding out that you do what you do.
03:32Do you find that people take an interest in what you do?
03:35Yeah, because I can think back, trace back back to the undergraduate studies.
03:43When I'm doing my final year projects, I have a choice of choosing a few different projects.
03:48So some projects like, you know, simulations, you get some energies.
03:52By the way, I'm from electrical engineering as my undergraduates.
03:56So there's some energies kind of projects where you need to measure the energy and then find out
04:00some way to optimize it. Yeah.
04:02And there is this project that you build a drone and you fly a drone.
04:05There's something like playing a Lego to me. Yeah.
04:08So it's like I'm having fun while working on my degrees. Right.
04:12So that is why I go into that. And since then, I can't stop myself from working on robotics projects.
04:17Even hearing the way you speak about it now, there's still so much excitement in your voice
04:22when you speak about it. Right. Yes. Yes.
04:24It's like you get to play with adult Legos now.
04:27Yes. Yes. Correct.
04:28The ultimate. Yeah.
04:29And not just to build drones that time. That time, we are taking fun in some competitions.
04:37And the drones need to follow the lines on the ground.
04:42There's like a grid, is it? Yeah. That's like a, it's not a grid, but just, just a pathway, like,
04:47like a track on the ground. Okay. All right.
04:48And the drones have to fly according to the track at a different height. So at a different portion
04:53of the track, you fly different height. So that's very fun. Wow. Yep.
04:57That's so, like an obstacle course for drones. Right. So, you know, at Taylors, you're helping students
05:03build future ready skills through robotics and drone technology, right?
05:09What does future ready mean to you? And how do you measure it in your classroom?
05:16I always believe that, uh, the only thing that doesn't change in this world is the change itself.
05:22Okay. Yeah. So being future ready means that we need to be really able to adapt to new changes.
05:30So, uh, there is a, you know, in, in internet, there is a memes that say what, what you learn
05:37in class, one plus one equals to two. Right. And what questions come up in the exam is a calculus
05:41questions. So, so that is something that is, I would say quite true. Right. Because that is where
05:47we want students to think outside of what they normally do. Right. Like we, we train students to,
05:54to do, to provide some solutions to some problems. Right.
05:57But we do not expect students to solve that exact problem in their life. Right.
06:01But that's probably soft. That's why we got the solutions for it. Right.
06:04But we want students to think of how actually we come up with that solutions. Can they tweak
06:09that solution to solve another problems that's not being faced, uh, that's not being soft in the
06:14world currently. So that is why a lot of times students will think, oh, why the questions in
06:19the exams is so different from what I learned from the textbook. Right. Because what you learn from
06:24a textbook is you, you will not need to solve it anymore. Right. So it's giving them the skills to
06:30well solve what they can in the classroom to be able to solve things that they haven't even
06:35actually experienced that things they can't even imagine yet at that point. So, so to me,
06:39it's the process of solving is the more importance than the results itself. Right.
06:44They, they, they can, a lot of people can fail the first time when they solve certain things,
06:48but it's the thought process where, um, like what sort of solutions you should use, uh, what sort of
06:55modification should make to the solutions in order that you think this is the best way to solve these
07:00problems. That is what is more crucial. If you have that mentality, I think it's considered as future
07:06ready. Right. Let's talk a little bit about the future of education and emerging tech because things
07:12are moving so fast, right? AI is advancing faster than our ability to even regulate or even understand it.
07:19Are we building tools to empower humans or are we training students to actually become replaceable
07:27ultimately? Are we building things that are going to replace us? Definitely. We are building tools
07:32that empowered us. Yeah. Uh, for now, because we look at AI as something very new that everyone is
07:38kind of like afraid of AI because they, Oh, everyone get to get replaced by AI. Yeah. Almost everything,
07:43you think about it, they say AI have something to do with it. But if you look back at,
07:47let's say 40 or 50 years ago, there wasn't computers, there wasn't calculators. And at that time,
07:55there are some big tech companies that were like NASA, they actually have job descriptions
08:00to hire people to do calculations. So let's say they have to develop the props that fly around
08:06moons and come back to the earth. So they have human calculators that calculate every instances,
08:11like what are the gravitational field, what are the velocities and all.
08:14And since... Like human computers almost.
08:17They are the human computers. Their basic job is just to do calculations. Right.
08:21And since then, uh, since the, uh, introductions of computers, simulations and calculators,
08:28these are being replaced by computers because computers can do it faster, more accurate and, and lower cost in the long run.
08:36So, uh, are we saying that these people, the human calculators are being replaced by the technologies?
08:41In some sense, yes. But in some sense, it actually opens up the opportunities for us to look for some
08:48others, uh, more critical jobs or more advanced jobs so that the whole, you know, the technologies can
08:55proceed forward in some way. So instead of being able to become like a calculator to do calculations,
09:02why not you start to design something that can help in your work?
09:06Right. So the idea is that as we, as some jobs become obsolete, new jobs are created.
09:12Correct.
09:12That's the ideal situation. But you know, there's this growing fear among some people that AI will make
09:19most jobs, including engineering and programming roles obsolete. When people say things like this and fear this,
09:25how real is that fear? And are we being honest enough with students about this, that there will
09:31always be this job for them?
09:34Um, right. Uh, in my opinions, the AI or automations is going to somewhat replace job that is repetitive,
09:45that requires us to, to, to follow, you know, step by step, step one, step two, step three, step four.
09:51And then if A happens that I do one, two, three, if B happens, I do four, five, six, that could be
09:56easily replaced by machines. That is really true. But I, my opinion is that we should not be focusing
10:03on doing this job. We, because our brain is what AI cannot, cannot really replace. We should be
10:09focusing on critical thinking to, to, to think of new type of solutions to solve any new problem that
10:16exists probably because of AI or maybe because of other things. Like creativity. Yes. Creativity
10:21and innovations is the part that I would say AI cannot compete with humans currently. Right.
10:27One of the things that we've learned a lot about, um, in the news actually is how some higher
10:33institutions have actually noticed that many students have become dependent on chat GPT perhaps,
10:39uh, or, or similarly AI powered, um, applications to cheat in exams and in, um, assignments, right?
10:50Should we be worried that students are becoming overly dependent on technology, losing the ability
10:56to think critically, solve problems creatively, or even that fear of failing now because they, they,
11:01they've got this other option to them. How real is this threat?
11:05Uh, we, we do see examples of students that, that produce a whole report or whole thesis through AI.
11:13And I think this is, um, to solve this is down to the, uh, we have to set a clear rules or regulations
11:21in AI ethics. Right. Um, just like I remember back in my secondary school, when we do some,
11:28you know, some projects and they keep telling us, or even in, in university, they keep telling us,
11:34you cannot cite Wikipedia because Wikipedia is, is, uh, the sources is unknown. It can be written
11:40by anyone. The source is not proven. So I will say that the same things we have to apply to AI as well.
11:46You cannot just ask AI to produce a piece of work where the sources are unknown to you. Right. So AI could
11:54help you to kind of like giving you an ideas on how should you write a better report? Like section A,
12:00you should write introduction. Section B, you should write methodologies and what sort of things that
12:04you should include in introductions, but we should not let AI to write it for us. Right. Yeah. So AI can
12:10be a guidance, but not an end product for us. So this is something we call the AI ethics that we need to
12:16inject into students mind to let them know that they can use AI. We cannot inject fear to them that say,
12:23oh, the moment you use AI, you will feel your assignment. No, we tell them you can use AI. You
12:27should use AI to improve your assignment, but you should not just copy any so-called facts that is
12:34written by the AI. Right. Yeah. You should fact check them. Right. Are there already countermeasures in
12:39place to be able to identify if something has been, um, or if a report has used AI to actually be
12:48created, um, or generated? We have one software is called Turnitin. Okay. Yeah. That software was
12:54used previously before AI to identify how many percents of matching between two reports. Right. So
13:01it's kind of like catching students copying reports directly. Right. And currently in the new features
13:07in Turnitin is still experimental features. They also have the AI, uh, AI similarity reports. Right. So
13:14they can tell you, it's still in experimentals. So they can roughly tell you like which paragraph
13:20or which sections are actually written by AI itself. Yeah. So, so that is something that, uh, we can't use
13:26it to make a conclusion saying that this report is made by AI, but that's basically, but we can actually
13:32get some insight from it that it probably, this is by AI. Yeah. And then we can talk to the students to
13:37ask them, uh, the best way to check whether students will do that work is that to ask them to explain what
13:42they do. Right. If they fully written by AI. Yeah. And they can't explain it. Yeah. The own work that
13:48they have produced. Correct. Right. Let's talk a little bit, Dr. Pang, about, um, Malaysia's role in
13:55the global tech race, right? What's, what seems to be holding us back from producing more local
14:01inventors, builders, and thinkers in your opinion? Is it curriculum, culture, confidence? What is it? It seems
14:09like we've got all this potential, but we don't seem to see as many Malaysians making a mark.
14:14Hmm. I would say this is mainly down to confidence. Hmm. Um, like there is a very fine line between, uh,
14:25smart solutions and a lazy solutions. So let's say you solving a problems, you find a shortcut way to
14:35solve a problems. You solve it much faster than what other people have done, not following the,
14:40the conventional methods. Right. A lot of people will think that, oh, this is actually, I'm being
14:44lazy. Oh, so I found a shortcut way. Shortcut is not good. So I stay quiet. But to inventors,
14:50this is actually a smart solutions. You are invented, you have invented a new way of solving something
14:57that's more efficient than the previous way. Hmm. So I think the confidence in them is very important that
15:03they must be confident in their solutions, in their own thinking, the thought process that
15:08this is actually a more preferred way coming forward. All right. The old way is a traditional
15:13way. We should now looking at this way. So, um, since small, I think since young, maybe perhaps in
15:19primary school, we should already inject this sort of confidence to our students. Uh, one things about
15:24the education system is that we always only, the students always only receiving, right? The teachers is
15:30there teaching the students and it's only listening. And then teacher always say, okay,
15:34you have this problem. You have to follow this step one, step two, step three as a solution.
15:38There's not enough of critical thinking that's injected to the students. Yeah. So, so they only
15:44learn this. They seem to be learning more of this critical thinking once they reach tertiary level
15:48education, which I personally think that it's a bit too late for them because some of them,
15:54they're already very used to say that when I met a problem, I have to follow this step one,
15:59step two, step three to solve it. So there is, there will be a lack of creativity and innovation
16:04in that sense already. Right. So it would help in your opinion, what would help make that more,
16:10like that transition better? Is it a root issue? Like maybe we could teach children more of this, uh,
16:16critical thinking or critical exercises at a younger age, even from, I don't know, pre primary school.
16:22Hmm. How early do kids need to be exposed to this?
16:26I would think that as early as primary school. Right. So one very good way to, to let them think
16:33off the box is actually to bring them to visit the industry, the actual industry, because the problems
16:39faced by the industry is really different from the textbook problems. Right. Textbook is the example
16:44problems. It's the ideal type of problems that you can follow certain steps and you achieve the
16:49solutions. But what faced in the industry, there's a lot of real world constraints that can really
16:56spur up the critical thinking and, and the thought process of the students. Right.
17:00When they want to solve this, oh, there's a constraints on financials, you know, solve that.
17:04There's a constraint on regulations. Yeah. So they have to find smart solutions now. Right.
17:09And that is where innovations comes out. And speaking of real world, um, there is a reality,
17:15of course, that many parents still push students towards what would be considered safe degrees in
17:21medicine, in law. What would you say to those who still see engineering, robotics, or tech
17:27as too risky, uh, a field to, um, choose? Actually, we should say the opposite way. Hmm.
17:34Because now why is it a lot of you are, uh, it's not safe now because we are saying that because
17:40automations, robotics, AI is going to replace them, replace their job. Yeah. So actually being in
17:46automations, robotics, and AI is the safest path because you are the one that leads the change. You
17:52are not the one that is going to be changed in the field to lead the change. Yeah. You're defining the
17:57future. Do you find that this is an issue that does come up sometimes when students are enrolling,
18:03they ask questions that relate to choosing this and they worry about their options? Uh, we, we
18:10constantly get this, uh, questions from students and also parents. They, they, they, one of the
18:15popular questions is say, oh, after four years of doing engineering at Taylor's, right. Will this field
18:21still be relevant? Yeah. Yeah. So, so at Taylor's universities, we try to be as relevant as possible,
18:28uh, in the sense that every year or every two years, we are going to revise our syllabus.
18:33to, to include, um, more advanced technologies into our syllabus. Like for examples,
18:39any students that comes in in this year, 2025, they are going to learn about AI. They are going to
18:43learn about Python's programmings, which wasn't in the previous syllabus because nowadays I think
18:48AI and Python programming is the way to go. Previously, they learn about C programming, C plus
18:52programming, which is kind of like, uh, I know that I knew about C plus programming language,
18:57but I didn't know the, about Python because I, of course I come from a, I left college a long time
19:02ago. Now, now, now the new programs, like the programmers that come out, most of them, they'll
19:07just use Python's to do programming. Right. Even in, in robotics, uh, when we code something for the
19:12robots, we use Python as well. My eyes are being opened even more. The more I speak to you now, the pressure to
19:19chase innovation sometimes leads to shallow learning where students end up coding for grades,
19:26not real world solutions. Right. How do we bring meaning back into tech education? You know, not
19:33just the grant work, but to make it feel like they're contributing to society, bring meaning back.
19:39Yeah. How? Uh, like I mentioned earlier, one way is that the students must really work with the
19:46industries. It's not, no longer solving a project, no longer doing an assignment that is solely can be
19:52solved in the university itself. Because at old days, university assignments are all from the thoughts of
19:58the lecturers who design it. Yeah. So this is, there's a lot of, um, this lacking of a lot of
20:04real world constraints. So, uh, at Taylor's university, we have this, um, we have this initiative called
20:11Impact Labs that we have, uh, started up, I think two or three years ago, where we ensure that every
20:19student, not just from engineering, not just from tech program, but every student at Taylor university,
20:23they need to participate in some projects that's related directly to the society. So the students
20:30no longer, you know, sitting at the back end, uh, working on some solutions. And then the lecturer
20:35talk to industry partners, but now students are at the front end, talk directly with our, uh, like
20:41beneficiaries, the public or some of our industry partners, understand their problems. And some of
20:47that even work together with the industry partners at their office to solve certain problems. And that has
20:53embedded in our curriculums, meaning that in order for students to graduate, they must do one of these
20:58projects and they will be graded for these projects. Right. So that is where students get a first
21:03exposure. If they didn't get any exposures in secondary school, uh, to the industry, that's their first
21:08exposure to industry. And that is where they can really understand what are the real world constraints.
21:13That is very different from what they study from textbook. Right. So they get to see it in real life.
21:17Correct. What they're studying and how it can apply to an actual, um, company and, and to actual people.
21:25Yes, correct. Right. Um, there is still this sense, right, that people feel and see that engineering and
21:33robotics is a male dominated field. Have you seen this play out in your own classrooms? And how do you,
21:40how do you create space for more diversity if this is the case?
21:43Uh, statistically speaking, uh, if you look at all the engineering statistics, uh, I would say this is
21:50a true phenomenon. Right. And, um, well, but recently we see a rising trend, although it's still male
21:59dominance, but we see a rising trends of female students in our engineering courses. Right.
22:04And, and in fact, uh, the last graduation that just happens last month. Right.
22:09Our valedictorians are actually a female students from engineering. Right.
22:13So, so it shows that, uh, engineering field is not designed to be more suitable for male students,
22:19but actually it's, it's also suitable for everyone. So a lot of misconceptions about engineers,
22:25but probably not the misconceptions 30, 40 years ago, uh, where engineers work are usually like the
22:31sweat and tears work. They'll need to stand under the hot sun. Yeah.
22:34And then doing all the things you'll be like, like black is tan and all. But nowadays you see a
22:40lot of engineers work are actually in the office in front of the computers to do some designing,
22:45including some developments of products. So it's not necessary that you will be outside in the field
22:51for engineering. So there's, there should be more and more female students that will realize this
22:56and then coming in as an engineers. Right. And you say you see a rising trend.
23:00Yes. Yes. We see a rising trend in that, especially in the new intake. Yep.
23:04Right. And do you find that when it comes to making that decision for when a, when a female,
23:09when a, when a female student decides to join, are parents a part of the factor as well? Do parents
23:15feel that they are not suited for it? Sometimes a student may feel that they are suited for something,
23:21but they have to fight the tide of parental opinion to choose what they want.
23:27My opinion is that for local students in Malaysia, I do not really see these trends. Usually when we have
23:35open days where students and parents that come to us and then seek clarification on some causes,
23:42for local Malaysians are mostly student is the one that really will talk to us, tell us about their interest
23:48and then ask us to recommend some of the programs to them. And then their parents are mostly there to be like
23:54giving confirmations to the students and say, oh yeah, this is a very good field. And probably
23:59the parents will be more worried about the future job careers for that particular field. They will ask
24:05also, if I join mechatronics engineering, what is the future careers like? Can they be engineers? Can
24:10they be robotic? Can they be designers?
24:12Right. So that's where you need to set them at ease and let them know that there is a future.
24:16Correct, correct. There's also still this stigma, right, around vocational or skilled-based education.
24:23Work that requires us to use our hands, right, to work with our hands. Yet many of your students
24:28graduate with highly technical job-ready skills. Should we redefine what academic success actually means?
24:37In a broad trend, yes. And at Taylor's, we already stepped up our first steps. Like I mentioned to you,
24:43our Impact Lab, it does not just define the academic success as you know, you score 100 for your written
24:51exams in your courses. You also need to do projects. In fact, in engineering at Taylor University, we adopt this
25:01project-based learning where every year students have to undergo one major project. Right. And
25:08because of the Impact Labs, we have to ensure that these projects actually has a direct link to the
25:14public or beneficiaries or industry partners where the students' work can be directly utilized by them
25:20and directly make an impact in the society. Right. So that is a criteria that we put in. So most of our
25:25projects currently for engineering, we are usually industry linked. We have a lot of industry
25:31partners that approach us, that tell us what are the problems that they face in their, you know,
25:37in their factories or in their productions. And they do not have resources to actually solve this
25:42problem and they want our students to help. All right. So that means you already find out what are
25:47the issues that are happening in the workplace. And therefore, you can train students to be ready to
25:53deal with what's going, that's already existing out in the real world. Yes, correct. And we also have
25:59one program that we call the Euphoria program. It's called Engineering Undergraduates Adoptions for
26:07Industry or for Industry Adoptions, where students are actually going to work on their final year
26:13projects. Means on year four, their final project, they're going to work together with our industry
26:17partners. And we allowed the students to work fully, full-time in the office with industry partners.
26:24Because on year four, in the final years, students will only be working on the projects. Right. So it's
26:29almost like they started working. Yeah, it's almost like they started working as the students. Yes. So
26:34they helped the industry partners to solve their problems. And then it turns out that a lot of
26:41these students who enroll in this program, this is a special program, students need to enroll on it,
26:45ends up working with the industry partners. Right. After their graduations.
26:50How does a student qualify for the Euphoria program? First, the student need to express their
26:55interests to say that they are, they are very interested to work with industry partners for
26:59their final projects. And second, after they enroll into it, we have to also seek different industry
27:06partners. We have a few of them that assign MOU or MOA with us, and they will be giving us their problems.
27:13And then we will ask students to choose which one they would like to solve. And then the final
27:19matching will be, the industry partners will have an interview with the student as well. Right.
27:24Because it's a one-year process. It's like a job interview. Yes, it's like a job interview. So,
27:29but most of the time they are okay with all the students, because they know that students will use
27:33that opportunity as a learning as well, as well as working. Yeah. That's very exciting.
27:38So, so when everything matches up, then the students will work on that. And because of the,
27:42of the contract or the MOU or MOA we signed with industry partners, they cannot kick the students
27:48out halfway. Right. That will make problems for the students because students cannot complete the
27:52projects. Yeah. And therefore cannot graduate. There's a commitment on both sides. Yeah,
27:56there's a commitment on both sides. Students cannot quit halfway as well. Absolutely. So,
27:59it teaches you a real life, a real life skill as well, because once you've committed to something,
28:04you need to see it to the end. Yep. Right. What's your advice for students who are entering a field
28:10that like, like this, that may look completely different in just five years. We don't know what
28:15it's going to look like because it's constantly changing. Right. How do they stay relevant without
28:19burning out? What, what are the steps taken to help the students? One way is really,
28:26I think I mentioned earlier as well, we have to reduce like textbook teachings. Yeah. We have to
28:33like create more critical thinking on students. Thought process is more important than the final
28:39results. Adaptability that I mentioned earlier is also very important so that students learn,
28:46students are actually learning how to learn instead of learning to solve certain problems. Right.
28:52Yeah. So in that sense, when they come out after five, four, four, five years and in the industry,
28:57after four or five years, when new problems comes in or new technologies come in, they can adapt to
29:02that technology easily because they can apply the same learning process to learn that technologies.
29:07So, so students need not to have another lecturers in front of them, not student anymore,
29:12the graduates, need not to have another lecturer in front of them to teach them how to do this,
29:15but they can just, you know, search from YouTube, from internet resources, from, from the data sheets,
29:20and they can figure out how to make the new technology works. Right. Yep. What's some of the feedback
29:25that you get from students who are going through the course? Like I'm sure because you engage with them,
29:32right? Um, what's some of the feedback that you hear from students? Uh, what, what do they enjoy most?
29:37Uh, most of the students actually enjoy being able to interact with our industry partners,
29:43because, uh, one reason is that they think that it's easier. And it's in fact, it's true. It's
29:49easier for them to get into the industry works, uh, work careers later. Right. And, and second,
29:55they think that they, they feel a value on their, uh, you know, on their work, on their projects. Right.
30:01Otherwise, if they just work on some research project in the universities where, where they
30:07can't see where it will go. Right. So, so it is, it is sometimes confuse them. It's like,
30:12why do I do this? Because it's after I do it, then my prototype put in the lab, that's it. Yeah.
30:16But now, uh, the students can see that, oh, they are actually using the app that I developed
30:21to make their life easier. So this is where students actually love it. Yeah. Because they get to see the
30:27results and how it works. Correct. When a student chooses this course of study, um,
30:33if you are speaking to a student who's just begun, what would you want to prepare them for? Like,
30:39what's the most challenging thing they should be ready for as they embark on this course of study?
30:45Um, it's the mindset. They must always accept changes. A lot of people, not just students,
30:53I see even myself included, we're somehow afraid of changes. You know, like, like when we see
31:00tariff change in, in, in our bill. Yeah. The first thing we will say is, oh, it's going to make our
31:05life harder. But if you look at it carefully, it's actually, it's better for us. The long run. Yeah.
31:10In the long run. So sometimes we, we should not reject something, some changes without actually
31:17investigating what, what is the effect of it. So, so students must be ready to change. That's the
31:23most important one. And be prepared for that. Yes. And in order to prepare them better, if you had
31:29the power to redesign the Malaysia's STEM curriculum from scratch, let's say you could change it. What's
31:36one thing you throw out? And what would you add immediately? Throw out? Yeah. Um, I want to say
31:44throw out completely. Okay. But, but reduce hours, which is on the, I would say face to face contact
31:50hours, like, like, uh, teachers, teaching students. I feel that it's no longer needed that long hours
31:57of, you know, Malaysia's, I think is like, like seven to one PM. No longer needed that long hour
32:04of contact hours. They, they should reserve some hours for students to do self reflections as well.
32:09Right. Yeah. And, and also we have to include add-ins, visitations to the actual industries.
32:15That is where students really understand how the world works. It's not just from the textbook,
32:21not just from their teachers. Right. To get them, um, involved outside of the classroom,
32:28to, to real exposure to how the world really works as soon as possible. Yes. To, to, to experience,
32:35you know, the atmosphere at a different workplace. Yeah. Right. Well, very insightful. Let's go to the
32:42rapid fire questions now. So this is where we ask you a question and you answer what comes to mind
32:48right now. Your opinions might change after this. Your opinions might change, but for now, this is what
32:52you're thinking. Okay. All right. Okay. Let's start with the first one. AI assistant in the classroom,
32:57helpful or harmful? It's definitely helpful. Okay. But again, we need to define a set of rules,
33:06ethics to the students. All right. So that they do not misuse it. Okay.
33:11Grades or grit, which is more important? Grit. Grit is just what, you know,
33:17grit is just to measure of what you know today. At today's one, it doesn't measure what you will know
33:22in the future. But grit is what really push you perseverance and or push you in your, in your life.
33:28It can drive you for and motivate you. Correct. Okay. When it comes to coding or critical thinking,
33:36which you think is a more important skill? Critical thinking? In my opinions, I hope I don't
33:42offence any coders. Coding is mostly syntax. But what's more important in coding is actually
33:50the algorithms of what you are going to code on, on, to make, to, to realize some apps or realize
33:56some things. So the algorithms is where critical thinking is very important because you need to,
34:01you know, find a more optimal way to, to, to, to develop this algorithm. For example,
34:06can I sort some numbers with less time than the currents, the current algorithms? Right.
34:14What do you think is the most underrated engineering skill that no one teaches?
34:20Debugging. Debugging. Debugging. Yep. Yep. You see, you don't understand that. Debugging.
34:26Because like we always say engineering skill, you need like, you know, hands on solder rings and all,
34:29but actually on, on, on programming, what one very important things is debugging because no one will get
34:37the programs right the first time, not even the first hundred times. Trust me. So debugging is like a
34:42long process of you rectifying your errors, finding out we, which part of the codes has that, that tiny
34:49error that you might not really, you know, realize at all. It's like fixing the minutiae, like the
34:55smaller, once you've built whatever that you're building is then fine tuning.
35:00Fine tuning. Right. And, and, and it really needs you to be patient and preservers. Preservers. Yeah. Okay.
35:08Hmm. Debugging. Got it. Yeah. Debugging.
35:10Is automation a threat or a tool? Oh, definitely a tool. Hmm. And, and
35:18we need to set our mentalities right. Definitely. It's a threat for some people who are unwilling to change.
35:23Hmm. If, if their work is going to get replaced, they have repetitive work. They have work that
35:29follow a fixed rules base. Hmm. They're going to get replaced by automations. So they need to
35:33be adapt to the new changes. Right. Because it's coming. Yeah. It's coming. Yeah. Smart cities. Exciting
35:39innovation or a dystopian nightmare? This one is both. Okay. This one is both. It is exciting in the
35:48sense that it's going to, it's going to make our life much easier, much better. We have, you know,
35:55even before you reach your homes, you know, your, your air cons at homes already cool down the
35:59temperatures for you, especially at now hot days nowadays. Yeah. But a lot of things that we need
36:05to go through, one is on the regulations. One thing is on the privacy. Yes. Because when we talk about
36:12smart cities, meanings that we need to install a lot of sensors around to enable that. And a lot of
36:18sensors are intrusive. Yeah. So, so that, that must be an area, you know, the more automations you go,
36:23the more intrusive it becomes. Yeah. So, so you must balance it in some way. Yeah. How much of our
36:29privacy are we here to lose? How much of our personal personalities do we give up and our, our
36:35identity in a sense? Yes. Correct. To live community that way. Give on, give out your privacy for
36:41comfortness. Yes. Yeah. To multiple corporations that will be responsible with them. Yeah. As much
36:49as we set regulations for the, for the users, we need to set regulations for the providers and
36:55the corporations as well, right? Yes. And that actually leads to the second point of why is it
37:00a nightmare as well, is on the, on, on, on the safety. Yeah. Like autonomous car on statistics,
37:07autonomous car, level five autonomies may have better, may have lower accidents rate than,
37:12than people's driving. But level five autonomy autonomy, the highest level? Oh yeah. It's the
37:17highest level. So, so it's fully autonomous. There's no pilot needed. There's not even a steering there.
37:21Uh, and oh, there's no option. There's no option for, for driving at all. Oh, right. Okay. So,
37:26there's level five autonomies. Uh, and then if, if, if let's say statistically speaking is having a
37:32lower accident rate than normal humans, man driving. Um, but let's say if accident happens in man driving,
37:39we know who is going to be responsible for that. Yeah. But in autonomous drive, when there's one accident
37:44that happens, the responsibilities is where it, it becomes a gray lines there. Yeah. Who is going
37:51to be responsible? Is it a manufacturer? The corporate, the yes. Or is it the, is it the coder?
37:57Yeah. True. Because it runs on code. Yes. Or is it because of the drivers,
38:02but the driver can't control it. Yeah. Yeah. Is it because passengers now? Yeah. Because it's
38:07important to determine that before we move forward. Correct. Because in the event of an accident,
38:11which we know is going to happen, somebody does need to take responsibility. Correct. Oh,
38:17good question. Wow. That answer just opens more questions. All right. Um, what's one tech buzzword
38:23you wish people would stop using? Oh, this is a disruptive. Oh, we see everywhere. Disruptive,
38:28is it? Every disruptive. Correct. Everywhere you see what disruptive technologies. This is the
38:32AI is disruptive. So, so my opinions, two things, why I dislike this work. One is, this is a negative
38:38work. Yeah. Why not constructive? Oh, good point. It could be constructive technologies that helps
38:45humans or help us to, to, to live a better life. Yeah. And, and second way is this word is being
38:50misused everywhere. Because in my opinions, every technology is disruptive to some sense. Yeah.
38:57Whether is it change your life completely, or is it just to, you know, switch on automatically,
39:02switch on your Viper when there's railing. Right. It's disruptive to your life, right? Yeah.
39:05There's one thing less, one thing less that you need to care about. Right. It's true. And using that
39:11word paints technology in a negative light. Yes, correct. Yeah. It makes you think about it as
39:16something that is going to, to destroy your life, to replace you. Negative change. Yeah. Right. Now, if you
39:24could take your students on a field trip anywhere in the world to see real innovation in action,
39:31where would you go and why? Shenzhen. Shenzhen, China. Okay. Yes. I have been there two years ago.
39:39And, and first of all, they have adopted the electric vehicles very widely. I asked the cab
39:45drivers and they say it's about 60 to 70 percent of their total vehicles are electric vehicles. The
39:51majority. The majority, yes. More than the normal ICE vehicles. And another thing is that I feel amazed when
39:57I was in the hotel, when I ordered some food delivery and the one that delivered the food to
40:02my hotel room is a robot. To the door. To the rooms. I do see similar robots in Malaysia. Right.
40:08In the restaurants, you know, sometimes the robots go into the kitchens and then they just key in the
40:11table numbers and then they fetch up your food in front of your door. But they make it a bigger,
40:16bigger scale. They make it the whole buildings. So the robot rides the lift. Yes, correct. Rides the elevator.
40:22Yeah. So I was very curious. As you know, now I actually followed the robots. So, so I went down
40:29all the way to the lobby and I see. So the, the delivery man actually placed the, uh, place the food
40:36on the robot, on the tray. And then they key in the room numbers. Right. And then the robots will just
40:41navigate. They know where's the lift. Okay. Navigates to the lift. And then the lift will open up for them.
40:45Okay. And then when I go in, I was thinking, should I actually press the buttons for the
40:49robots when the robot has no hand and the buttons automatically lights up to the floor
40:54that the robots wanted to go. So the robot is wirelessly connected to the grid, the system
40:59and the computer in the hotel. Yeah. So, so that is one thing that I think is really crazy in China.
41:05They have integrated system. They, they not just only having a robot. They have robot integrated
41:11to their life already. Yep. So this, I have so many questions. You, you should go there. How do I feel
41:18about this? You should go there. That like, if I'm getting to the elevator and there's a robot with me,
41:24with food. And the robot will say hi to you. Really? Oh, it will know that I'm there? Yeah. It can recognize
41:29a human. It can recognize. Okay. Go in there, say hi to you. And they will apologize to you first in, in China.
41:34The apologists say, oh, I might be blocking your way. Please give away to me later when the lift
41:38door opens. Wow. That is great and scary at the same time. This dystopian future that we're talking
41:46about is already here. It's already here. It's already here and it's only going to progress,
41:50right? It's going to, it's going to progress fast. Do you think so? Um, well, I would say it depends on
41:55the regulations of the countries. Probably China is pushing it very hard now. Interesting. Wow. Okay.
42:02And this is a question we ask so many, all of our guests, actually, if you had the opportunity to
42:07make one change as Prime Minister of Malaysia for a day, what would it be and why?
42:14I guess my answer would be similar to the previous one. I would make some changes in STEM education,
42:20where it's going to take up some of the face-to-face learning hours and going to put in,
42:25definitely have to include visitations to local industry. Visitation, not only to local industry,
42:31probably can also visitations to local communities. Right. Yep. So, so to see, to let
42:37students to actually understand that what the community actually needs currently, currently today.
42:43Right. Yeah.
42:44Because sometimes we bring the world into the classroom, but sometimes you need to bring
42:48the classroom to the world into the world. Yeah. When you bring the world to the classroom,
42:52it's always outdated because you need to, you know, you put in the classroom and every classroom,
42:56we're going to run the same thing. And after three weeks, four weeks, after one month, it's going to
43:00be outdated. Right. I need to go and find out now how I can get one of these robots to carry me around
43:05and I never have to walk again. You have to check the rules and regulations first. Right.
43:09Always important. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us, Dr. Pang. It has
43:16been very interesting and enlightening and we appreciate you. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you so
43:22much for inviting. Thank you. And we'll see you again in the next episode of Life Confessions here on Shock.
43:28Life Confessions here on Shock.
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