- 3 months ago
RSS ideologue and Thuglak editor S Gurumurthy called the DMK a dishonest party and said it is neither sincere to Dravidian ideology nor to Tamil identity.
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00:00Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome our next guest, someone who needs really no introduction, particularly in these parts.
00:06We will of course introduce him once he's on stage, but please welcome the one and only S. Guru Murthy.
00:30Ladies and gentlemen, one of the big battles of our times, or political battles and cultural battles is that of identity.
00:40And in this part of the country, at the India Today South Conclave, we want to explore an aspect of it,
00:46which is the Dravidian identity, which has dominated the landscape of Tamil Nadu for 50 years,
00:53versus a broader Tamil and Bharatiya identity, and whether the two coexist, and if so, how.
01:05To answer that question, which is politically contentious, I am joined by a very special guest,
01:12someone who is the editor of Tughlaq, but a man of many parts, is proud to be an RSS Pracharak way back in the early 1970s,
01:21has been an investigative journalism, chartered accountant, and so much more.
01:25Please welcome S. Guru Murthy.
01:33Mr. Guru Murthy, you are known to create controversy.
01:38And I have just seen your latest editorial in the Tughlaq, where you go on to say,
01:43DMK, DMK stole Tamil, stole Chori, Tamil to market a failed Dravidian dream.
01:52Dravidianism is divisive, devoid of any form of spirituality and cultural identity.
01:57You even suggest there is a racial tinge to it.
02:01And then go on to praise Prime Minister Modi and claim,
02:04he is trying to rescue Tamil Nadu, and reconnect it with India's spiritual and cultural stream.
02:10What are you trying to say?
02:13See, for that, you have to go at least a hundred years,
02:17when E.V. Ramsaminaikar was in the Congress Party.
02:21He was in the Congress movement.
02:24But somewhere, he became so disenchanted with the Congress,
02:28which was then dominated by the upper caste, and particularly the Brahmins.
02:33He decided to strike an independent path, and he found that this Dravidianism,
02:40which is rooted in the British division of the Aryans and Dravidians,
02:46as racial concept, this is important.
02:49No racial concept as an ideology.
02:51White race, black race, yellow race,
02:55there is no ideology.
02:56It is only color.
02:57So, he zeroed in on Dravidian identity,
03:04and he found that it completely contradicts the Tamil identity.
03:10If you look at the entire Tamil literature,
03:12of course, many of them may be knowing,
03:15the current generation may not even know,
03:18that if you touch Tamil, it is Sanathana Dharma.
03:20If you touch Tulkapiyam, it talks about Varna Dharma.
03:26Tulkapiyam says that he went and gave his thesis,
03:30his literature, which is Panini's Grammar.
03:34He adopted Panini's Grammar,
03:36and gave it to an Adango, to Asang,
03:39who was well-versed in four Vedas,
03:41got it approved by him,
03:43and then came and presented it to the Pandian Sabha.
03:48The starting point of Tamil is Varna Dharma.
03:52In fact, Vaivasvat Amanu was supposed to have been born in Madurai.
03:56My own thesis is,
03:58Varna Dharma went from here to north,
04:00not from there here.
04:01So, E. V. Ranswami Naikar found,
04:04that the entire Tamil literature
04:05celebrates Sanathana Dharma,
04:07Varna Dharma, Brahminism,
04:10and he said,
04:11this whole thing has to go.
04:13And he called Tamil,
04:15a barbaric language,
04:16Tamil people, barbaric people,
04:18Thirukural,
04:19the human stool kept on a golden plate.
04:24This was the DMK ideology,
04:27till 1963.
04:28But the fact is,
04:32the fact is,
04:35Periyar,
04:36as large parts of the country know him,
04:39was also speaking out against the ills of this Brahminical Hinduism.
04:44What you are glorifying today as Sanathana Dharma,
04:47he saw as castist,
04:50ritualistic,
04:51and Brahminical.
04:52He was absolutely right.
04:54In fact,
04:54he was the only honest thinker in Tamil Nadu.
04:58He found this entire Tamil culture,
05:00literature,
05:02Tamil scholars,
05:03were all Brahminical,
05:05and Thirul were celebrated Brahmins.
05:08And he said,
05:09if you want to attain moksha,
05:10you have to go,
05:11touch the feet of a Brahmin.
05:14So,
05:14he said,
05:14who are these people?
05:16Unless you give up all this,
05:18and say these are all semi-barbaric language,
05:21and you adopt Dravidianism.
05:24He was the only honest thinker.
05:27The DMK is a dishonest party.
05:30In 1965,
05:32they had this anti-Hindi agitation.
05:35Suddenly,
05:36they became Tamil lovers.
05:37For example,
05:37Anadurai,
05:38for whom I have,
05:39among the DMK people,
05:40I have some respect for Anadurai,
05:42because he was a very moderate man.
05:44He was a good man.
05:45He wrote 220 books.
05:48Not one about Tamil literature.
05:50Not one about Thirukurad.
05:53It is only after 1967,
05:55when he became the chief minister,
05:56he began talking about Thirukurad.
05:59So,
06:00when they,
06:00when they were orphaned by the Dravidian racialism,
06:05they caught hold of Tamil.
06:07No, no,
06:08look,
06:09you are saying they caught hold of Tamil.
06:10Today we are in 2025.
06:12Whether,
06:13whether you like it or not,
06:14the DMK and the various Dravidian parties claim to represent a sense of Tamil pride,
06:20many of the leaders of the DMK today,
06:22who you say stole Tamil,
06:24or saw Tamil as barbaric,
06:26all of them have written extensively in Tamil.
06:29Karuna Nidhi was a script writer.
06:31Others also wrote volumes in Tamil.
06:34I mean,
06:35are you saying that in 2025,
06:38Dravidianism or Dravidian identity does not represent Tamil identity?
06:43No,
06:43I tell you,
06:44this is stolen identity.
06:45That's what I'm saying.
06:47You see,
06:47Stolen from whom?
06:49Stolen from the original Tamil people.
06:53The Dravidian people.
06:54You can't have Dravidam Unnetra Karakam and have Tamil identity.
06:59This is my complaint.
07:01No,
07:01why?
07:01Are you saying that Dravidian identity is not equal to Tamil identity?
07:04No.
07:05Dravidian identity has no language.
07:08It is racial.
07:10And it is regional.
07:12If you say Tamil is Dravidian identity,
07:16then what about Malayalam,
07:17Kannadam,
07:18Telugu?
07:18They are all Dravidas.
07:20So,
07:21there is a complete contradiction,
07:22which Ivi Ram Swami Naikar saw.
07:25He was probably the most well-read,
07:27competent,
07:28honest man.
07:29You like him or not?
07:30He explained what he wanted.
07:34But the DMK found that he has been orphaned
07:37and then took to Tamil.
07:38I will leave two things.
07:40Tirukural
07:41was perhaps the only literature
07:43which had more than 200 people
07:46who have explained the meaning of Tirukural.
07:49Amazing.
07:49I don't think any other literature has been explained so well.
07:53Between 1950 and 1970,
07:5624 people
07:57wrote explanations about Tirukural.
08:00The DMK came to power.
08:02The number came down to 3.
08:03You know why?
08:05These people who oppose Tirukural
08:08have come to power.
08:09Can I write or not?
08:11The number came down.
08:14Karunanithi wrote about Tirukural explanation
08:17for the first time in 1996.
08:21These people,
08:22because they had to find some way to identify themselves.
08:25So, what I am saying is,
08:28you said you are Tamil lover,
08:30you are Tamil converts,
08:32it's okay.
08:32But you call others Tamil drohis.
08:35They are all haters of Tamil.
08:38Another thing I tell you,
08:39the number of people
08:40taking to English medium education,
08:43Tamil Nadu,
08:44as compared to the students
08:46taking
08:46Tamil medium,
08:49the difference is 74%.
08:52Where have you promoted Tamil?
08:55You have destroyed Tamil.
08:56Periyar said,
08:57promote English,
08:58destroy Tamil.
08:59And you are doing that.
09:00you know,
09:03we will make this even more contentious
09:05because
09:05along with what you are saying,
09:08you also go on,
09:09as I said,
09:10to praise Prime Minister Modi
09:11and claim
09:12he is trying to rescue Tamil Nadu
09:14and reconnect it with India's
09:16spiritual and cultural stream.
09:18Now,
09:19the general belief is
09:20the BJP
09:21is seen to reflect
09:22the idea of
09:23Hindu,
09:23Hindu,
09:24Hindustan
09:24or even the RSS
09:25for that matter
09:26which is antithetical
09:28to the very idea of
09:29India of a plural society.
09:30So,
09:31you seem to at one level
09:32be disparaging about
09:33the DMK.
09:35On another level,
09:36you seem to suggest
09:37that Mr. Modi
09:37is trying to embrace
09:38the original
09:39Tamil cultural stream.
09:41You can't do it
09:42simply by wearing a vesti
09:43in an interview
09:44with a Tamil channel.
09:45There is more to it.
09:47You see,
09:47Radheep,
09:48you are going
09:50by the narrative
09:51of what RSS
09:52or BJP
09:53or Moody is.
09:54You have your own narrative.
09:56RSS would never have
09:58grown
09:58unless it had accepted
10:01local sentiments,
10:02local culture,
10:03local language.
10:05This is what
10:05the Congress
10:06failed to do.
10:07In fact,
10:08when I was sitting
10:09with you on the table,
10:10I was a congressman.
10:11In 1967
10:12and 1971,
10:14we all worked
10:14against the DMK.
10:16The way the DMKs,
10:18you know,
10:18the racial fervor
10:19was there,
10:20the DMK man
10:21will not eat
10:22but will work
10:22for the party.
10:24So,
10:24that was the DMK
10:25which we fought
10:27against.
10:28The Congress
10:28never realized
10:29the deep
10:31regional
10:32and linguistic
10:34pride
10:35of Tamil people.
10:36So,
10:37it vacated
10:38that place
10:39for the DMK
10:40to grab.
10:41If Congress
10:42in 1950s
10:44and 60s
10:45and 70s
10:46all over India
10:47had addressed
10:48local aspirations,
10:50there would be
10:50no other political
10:51party in this country.
10:53If the BJP
10:54is stepping
10:55into the place
10:57vacated by the Congress,
10:58it is Congress
10:59plus.
10:59the BJP
11:02has taken over
11:03all the pre-independence
11:04values,
11:05slogans,
11:06symbols
11:06of the Congress.
11:07Bande Mataram,
11:09Bharat Matagi Jai.
11:10Where did it get?
11:12No,
11:12but where is
11:14this belief
11:15then,
11:16the ideological
11:16belief of
11:17Hindi,
11:17Hindu,
11:18Hindustan?
11:19Are you saying
11:19that that is not
11:20the ideological
11:20construct of
11:22the Sangh Paribar?
11:22No,
11:23that was the
11:23starting point
11:24of the,
11:24it was never
11:25RSS.
11:26It was BJP.
11:28Hindi,
11:29Hindu,
11:29Hindustan
11:30was the
11:31original
11:31plank of
11:32the BJP
11:33which grew
11:34in the north.
11:35Afterwards,
11:36when it spread,
11:38it began
11:38accepting others.
11:39Otherwise,
11:40for example,
11:40Kerala is the
11:42place where
11:42the BJP
11:43may not be
11:43able to win
11:44as many seats
11:44as it wants
11:45to,
11:46but the
11:46strongest
11:47RSS
11:47shaka
11:48is only
11:49in Kerala,
11:50in Karnataka.
11:52So,
11:52it addressed
11:53the regional
11:54aspirations.
11:55It recognized
11:55the people's
11:56longing for
11:57their own
11:57values.
11:59So,
11:59you can't
11:59say that
12:01RSS
12:02means what
12:03you say
12:03or your
12:04narrative.
12:05What
12:06Narendra Modi
12:06is doing
12:07is something
12:07unique.
12:08He is not
12:09talking about
12:10Dravidian.
12:11He is not
12:11talking about
12:12anything.
12:12He is only
12:13talking about
12:13how great
12:14Tamil language
12:14is.
12:15And he
12:16says now
12:16he will
12:17put up
12:18statues of
12:19Raja Raja
12:20Chorda and
12:20Rajantra Chorda.
12:21You know
12:21what it
12:22means?
12:23Under
12:23Raja Raja
12:24Chorda
12:24statue,
12:26there will
12:26be an
12:27insignia,
12:29Shivapada
12:29Shekara.
12:30Shivapada
12:30Shekara
12:31means he
12:32was keeping
12:33Shiva's
12:33feet on
12:35his head.
12:36DMK
12:37cannot accept
12:38it.
12:38It cannot
12:39reject it.
12:41Rajantra
12:41Chorda,
12:42he called
12:42himself as
12:44the inheritor
12:47of Rama's
12:47legacy,
12:48Surya
12:48Vamsha.
12:50Modi will
12:50put it,
12:51DMK cannot
12:52reject it,
12:52it cannot
12:53accept it.
12:53So he is
12:54creating a
12:56situation where
12:57the DMK will
12:58have to give up
12:59Dravidianism and
13:00accept Tamil.
13:01Or give up
13:03Tamil and go
13:03by Dravidian.
13:04So this is the
13:05conflict he is
13:07creating for the
13:08DMK.
13:09But then why
13:09is it that
13:10Tamil Nadu
13:11remains a
13:11bridge too
13:12far for the
13:13BJP?
13:14Why is it
13:14then?
13:14If all of
13:15what you are
13:16saying is
13:16true, the
13:17RSS and the
13:17Hindu Munani
13:18for example
13:19have grown
13:19over the
13:20years, both
13:21in Kerala
13:21and in
13:22Tamil Nadu.
13:22But when it
13:22comes to
13:23elections, it's
13:24the two
13:24Dravidian
13:25parties who
13:26dominate the
13:27political
13:27landscape.
13:27Are you
13:28saying that
13:28will change?
13:29You see,
13:30please understand
13:30one thing.
13:31If DMK had
13:32remained committed
13:33to Dravidian
13:35or Tamil,
13:37sincerely, it
13:38won't happen.
13:39Because they are
13:39not sincere to
13:40either.
13:41For example,
13:42I was talking
13:44to a DMK
13:44MP who was
13:45in the flight.
13:47I don't want
13:48to mention the
13:48gender.
13:49The person
13:49wanted to
13:52meet me,
13:53to talk to
13:53me.
13:55The person
13:55had just
13:55become their
13:56DMK MP.
13:58I kept on
13:59talking to
13:59that person
14:00in Tamil.
14:01That person
14:01kept on
14:02answering me
14:03in English.
14:05I said,
14:05you know,
14:06I am talking
14:06in Tamil,
14:07you are
14:07talking in
14:07English.
14:08I have seen
14:09most of
14:10the DMK
14:10people,
14:11because from
14:111996 till
14:122004, I
14:14used to very
14:14closely move
14:15with the DMK
14:15leaders,
14:16including
14:16Murshalemar,
14:17who was a
14:17great friend.
14:18In no
14:19house, I
14:19have seen
14:20Tamil words
14:20being used.
14:22You have
14:22driven Tamil
14:23out of,
14:23because E.V.
14:25Ramasam
14:26Nayakar never
14:27had respect
14:27for Tamil.
14:28He always
14:28praised
14:29English.
14:30Tamil Nadu
14:30has become
14:31an English
14:31speaking state,
14:32English
14:32learning state.
14:34Nothing wrong
14:35in that.
14:36Nothing wrong
14:36in that.
14:37But don't
14:37say Tamil
14:38is the
14:38greatest
14:38language,
14:39we are
14:39the
14:39protectors
14:40of Tamil.
14:40This is
14:41dishonest.
14:41So you
14:42are saying
14:42when DMK
14:43now goes
14:43on a
14:43campaign,
14:44for example,
14:45saying Hindi
14:45is being imposed
14:46on Tamil
14:47Nadu,
14:47we will
14:48stand for
14:48a Tamil
14:50cultural
14:50identity.
14:51You are
14:51saying that's
14:52bogus.
14:52I will
14:52tell you
14:53one thing.
14:54This year,
14:55the number
14:55of people
14:56who got
14:57admitted into
14:58first standard
15:00in Tamil
15:01language is
15:0170,000.
15:04Throughout
15:04Tamil Nadu,
15:05first standard
15:06Tamil admission.
15:07but those
15:08who got
15:09into Hindi
15:10to learn
15:11English is
15:1380,000.
15:16So that's
15:17because English
15:17is an
15:18aspirational
15:18language across
15:19India.
15:19No, no,
15:19I am
15:19talking about
15:20Hindi.
15:21Are you
15:22saying therefore
15:23that a
15:23majority of
15:24Tamilians would
15:25want to
15:26actually learn
15:27Hindi?
15:27Absolutely.
15:28I am not
15:29saying people
15:30who love
15:31Hindi,
15:31they would
15:32like to
15:32learn Hindi.
15:33It's not
15:34because you
15:34want to
15:35learn a
15:36language because
15:36you love
15:37it.
15:37You find
15:38it is
15:38useful.
15:39People are
15:40maybe learning
15:41French or
15:42German or
15:43out of
15:43love.
15:44But you
15:45learn English
15:45for its
15:46utility.
15:47Hindi is
15:48utility.
15:49And you
15:50say Hindi
15:50is imposition.
15:52That's where
15:52the DMK is
15:53wrong.
15:53And these
15:54are all
15:54fake things.
15:56Dayanidimaran
15:57speaks Hindi.
15:59But he
15:59would not
15:59allow,
16:00DMK would
16:01not allow
16:01somebody else
16:02to speak
16:02Hindi.
16:03So,
16:04this dishonesty
16:04will get
16:05exposed.
16:05I am telling
16:06you,
16:06after the
16:06social media
16:07explosion,
16:08the DMK
16:09cannot keep
16:10the people
16:10ignorant for
16:11too long.
16:13You know,
16:13Mr.
16:15Guru Moorthy,
16:17you still
16:17haven't...
16:17You can call
16:18me Guru.
16:19I call
16:19you Sir
16:19Rajdeep.
16:21Yeah,
16:21you...
16:22You know...
16:23Guru is
16:24name as well
16:25as status.
16:25You must
16:25understand.
16:27Sir,
16:28I will call
16:28you...
16:29You are very
16:30senior to me,
16:30so I can
16:31call you Guru,
16:32Guruji.
16:33If I call you
16:34Guruji,
16:35you will think
16:35I am referring
16:35to Guruji
16:36Goldwalker,
16:37so I am
16:37very careful.
16:38But,
16:39you know,
16:40Mr.
16:41Guru Moorthy,
16:43what you are
16:43trying to
16:45suggest
16:45runs against
16:48the history
16:48of the last
16:4950 years,
16:50is the point
16:51I am making.
16:51because the
16:52Dravidian movement
16:53surely has
16:54struck deep
16:54roots in
16:55these parts.
16:56No party
16:57could or
16:57movement could
16:58have survived
16:59for as long
16:59as it has
17:00unless it
17:01has struck
17:01strong regional
17:02roots.
17:03So the people
17:04of the state
17:05ultimately decides.
17:06Guru Moorthy
17:07and Tughlaq do
17:07not decide what
17:09the people of
17:09Tamil Nadu
17:10want.
17:10If the people
17:11of Tamil Nadu
17:11feel that maybe
17:12Dravidianism is
17:13empowering,
17:14then maybe it
17:15is.
17:16Maybe it has
17:16broken from
17:17the Brahminism
17:18that in a
17:19way you
17:19represent.
17:20I agree.
17:21In 1920,
17:23Dravidianism
17:23was a seed
17:24thought.
17:24Yes.
17:26And it
17:26grew into a
17:27very powerful
17:28movement in
17:291948 when
17:31Anadurai broke
17:33from the
17:33DK.
17:35Yes.
17:35But he
17:36still maintained
17:37those very
17:38policies.
17:39His objection
17:39was only to
17:40E.V.
17:41Ramza Amnayakar
17:41marrying a
17:42woman.
17:42Otherwise they
17:43had no
17:43problem.
17:44He even
17:44said this
17:45chairman's
17:46position,
17:46the president's
17:47position,
17:47is kept
17:48vacant for
17:49him.
17:50In 1963,
17:52he felt
17:53that Dravidianism
17:54was not
17:54going to
17:55work.
17:55He gave
17:55him the
17:55Dravidian
17:56Adu
17:56principle.
17:57Then he
17:58came to
17:58Tamil.
17:59Because that
18:00area had
18:01been vacated
18:01by the
18:02congress
18:02party,
18:02he could
18:03just take
18:03it over.
18:04It was
18:05an untenanted
18:06property.
18:08Tamil was
18:09an untenanted
18:10property,
18:11handed over
18:12free by the
18:13congress to
18:13the DMK.
18:14DMK had
18:15nothing to
18:15do with
18:16Tamil.
18:16Congress had
18:17everything to
18:17do with
18:18Tamil.
18:18If you
18:19look at
18:19the 18th,
18:2019th,
18:2020th century
18:21Tamil scholars,
18:22they were
18:22all great
18:22nationalists.
18:26Not a
18:27single DK,
18:28DMK man
18:29produced any
18:31literature worth
18:32the name
18:33until 1990.
18:36So,
18:36for the
18:37DMK to
18:38say that
18:38they have
18:39taken over
18:39because it
18:40was a stolen
18:41property on
18:42the road.
18:42so what
18:43I am
18:43saying is
18:44this is
18:44a seed
18:45thought
18:45which we
18:46are now
18:47sowing.
18:48It will
18:48take 15
18:48years,
18:4920 years.
18:50But to
18:51say that I
18:51should not
18:52sow it is
18:53to say I
18:54should not
18:54sow the
18:54truth.
18:55But then
18:56why are,
18:57I repeat
18:57again,
18:58why are
18:58right-wing
18:59pro-Hindu
19:00groups struggling
19:00over the
19:01years to
19:01get the
19:02kind of
19:02political
19:03acceptance
19:03in
19:04Tamil Nadu?
19:05What is
19:05it that
19:05has prevented
19:06them from
19:07getting that
19:07kind of
19:08acceptance?
19:08I tell
19:09you,
19:09the society
19:10in Tamil Nadu
19:10has changed.
19:11In 1970s,
19:12when we were
19:13all political
19:14activists,
19:15there used
19:15to be so
19:16little crowd
19:16in the
19:16temple.
19:18Gods did
19:19not attract
19:19people.
19:20Gods have
19:20been driven
19:21out of
19:21Tamil Nadu.
19:23Now,
19:24the only
19:25place of
19:27attraction
19:28is temple.
19:29Gods.
19:30So what
19:31E.V.
19:31Ransami
19:31Nairkar
19:32wanted,
19:32destroyed,
19:33has come
19:33back.
19:34But politics
19:35remains the
19:36same.
19:36But they
19:37cannot remain
19:38alien for
19:39too long.
19:40So the
19:41politics has
19:41to now
19:42adjust to
19:42the aspirations
19:43of the
19:43people.
19:44The people
19:44have become
19:45religious.
19:45They have
19:46become,
19:46they have
19:46become
19:47spiritual.
19:48All that
19:49the DMK
19:49wanted,
19:50destroyed,
19:50for example,
19:51fire walking,
19:52or you know,
19:52there are
19:52self-torturing
19:53methods of,
19:54all that has
19:55come back.
19:56DMK people
19:56themselves are
19:57doing it.
19:58DMK is
19:59on a
20:00wicket,
20:01which has
20:01already
20:02collapsed.
20:03It is
20:04only who
20:04is going
20:04to give
20:05that push.
20:06If anybody
20:07can give
20:08that push,
20:08it is
20:08only the
20:09BJP.
20:10BJP is
20:11not a
20:11pushover
20:12party today.
20:13It is a
20:13pushing party.
20:14I am not
20:15looking at
20:15it as
20:16someone RSS
20:17or who has
20:18sympathy for
20:19BJP.
20:20I am
20:20looking at
20:20it as
20:21how Tamil Nadu
20:22politics is
20:23moving.
20:24If DMK,
20:25BJP could
20:26lead a
20:26coalition,
20:27I mean
20:28alliance of
20:29parties with
20:3018% votes,
20:31which is
20:31unthinkable,
20:33Tamil Nadu is
20:33moving.
20:34So you can't
20:34say Tamil Nadu is
20:35not making
20:36an impact.
20:37Okay,
20:37I just want
20:38to for a
20:38moment play
20:39what Uday
20:40Nidhi
20:40Stalin said
20:41a couple
20:42of years
20:42ago which
20:43created a
20:43controversy.
20:45And I
20:45want you to
20:45respond to
20:46that after
20:46listening to
20:47it.
20:47Listen in
20:48first to
20:48what Uday
20:48Nidhi
20:49Stalin said.
20:57We just
20:58try and put
20:59that...
20:59No, I
21:00know what
21:00he said.
21:00Yeah, but
21:01I know what
21:01you said,
21:02but maybe
21:02some people
21:03in the
21:03audience need
21:04to be
21:04reminded of
21:05what Uday
21:05Nidhi
21:05had said
21:06at the
21:06time.
21:08Can we
21:08play that?
21:09What Uday
21:10Nidhi
21:10said?
21:12It's a
21:12pity that
21:13I have to
21:13listen to
21:14what he
21:14says and
21:14comment on
21:15it.
21:17Okay,
21:17we'll
21:18wait and
21:19see if
21:20we get
21:20that
21:20well and
21:21good.
21:44Okay, so
21:45what he's
21:46saying, is
21:47that how the
21:47battle will
21:48be pitched in
21:49the future?
21:49No.
21:50Those who
21:50promote
21:52Sanatan
21:52Dharma as
21:53you see
21:53it versus
21:54those who
21:55promote
21:55Dravidianism
21:56and a
21:57sense that
21:58Sanatan
21:58Dharma in
21:59its very
21:59form is
22:00hierarchical,
22:01castist,
22:02ritualistic versus
22:04Dravidianism which
22:05claims it
22:06stands for a
22:06more egalitarian,
22:07rational society.
22:09Radjee, you
22:10have no
22:11familiarity with
22:12how Tamil Nadu
22:12and DMK
22:13politics evolved
22:14in 1950s and
22:1560s.
22:17This is at
22:17least listenable.
22:19They used
22:20to talk in
22:20such rotten
22:21language which
22:23cannot be
22:23printed.
22:24We have
22:25listened to
22:25all that.
22:26This more
22:26gentlemanly
22:27presentation of
22:28Sanatan
22:28Dharma.
22:30You don't
22:31know the
22:32kind of
22:33pain religious
22:34people had
22:35undergone in
22:35Tamil Nadu
22:36because of
22:36these third
22:37rate people who
22:38had come into
22:39politics in the
22:40name of
22:40Dravidianism have
22:42caused the
22:42collapse of the
22:43Tamil Nadu
22:43society.
22:44In fact,
22:45Tamil Nadu
22:45should have
22:45been the
22:46California of
22:47India.
22:48It is
22:48underperforming.
22:49On most
22:51social and
22:51economic
22:52indicators,
22:53Tamil Nadu
22:53is way ahead
22:54of the rest of
22:54the country.
22:55I agree because
22:56Tamil Nadu
22:57had a
22:58historical
22:58advantage of
22:59associating with
23:00modernity because
23:01the British came
23:02here first.
23:03You must
23:04understand that
23:05the present
23:06world in
23:07which if you
23:07want to
23:08succeed, you
23:09must have
23:09connectivity with
23:10modernity.
23:11Tamil Nadu
23:11established it.
23:12But Tamil Nadu
23:13established modernity
23:14without losing
23:15tradition.
23:15That became the
23:16social capital of
23:17Tamil Nadu.
23:18It didn't destroy
23:19its families, the
23:20community systems
23:20were not destroyed,
23:22relationship remained
23:23the same, the
23:23language was
23:24preserved.
23:25This is something
23:27which is completely
23:28contrary to the
23:29modern development
23:31model, the
23:32macroeconomic
23:33model, which
23:34says methodological
23:35individualism.
23:36You have to
23:36destroy the existing
23:37relationship to build
23:38a modern society.
23:40Tamil Nadu built a
23:41modern society
23:42without destroying
23:43tradition.
23:44That is Tamil Nadu.
23:45It should have
23:46performed so well
23:47but for the
23:47corruption you see.
23:48Today somebody was
23:49saying the kind of
23:50corruption that is
23:51going on as I
23:52entered, sir you
23:53please help us.
23:55Tamil Nadu
23:56should be leading
23:57India.
23:58It has that
23:59potentiality.
24:00It is underperforming
24:01because of
24:02Dravidians.
24:03Corruption is a
24:03national epidemic
24:04sir.
24:05Some of the people
24:06you admire are not
24:08necessarily above
24:09board also.
24:10Some of the
24:10politicians but I
24:12take your point.
24:13I take your point
24:14that you could say
24:14much more could be
24:15done.
24:16There is a
24:17cleansing needed of
24:18public life for
24:18example.
24:19But I do really
24:20want to ask you
24:21over the years
24:22you and others
24:24in Tamil Nadu
24:25have from time to
24:25time looked for
24:26options to the
24:27Dravidian parties.
24:28I recall a few
24:29years ago you had
24:30suggested that BJP
24:32should not align with
24:33either AI, DMK or
24:34DMK.
24:35Instead should form
24:36its own identity
24:37with the likes of
24:38Rajnikanth for
24:39example to lead
24:40it.
24:40That didn't work
24:41out.
24:41You seem to be
24:42constantly looking
24:43for someone who
24:45is going to take
24:45on this Dravidian
24:46identity and do a
24:48guru identity if I
24:49may call it that.
24:50I am not looking
24:51for somebody
24:51looking on
24:53looking on
24:53somebody.
24:54I am actually
24:55looking for
24:56adding on.
24:59You must
25:00understand every
25:01party has to
25:02develop a core
25:04and then add
25:05because today it
25:06is coalition
25:07politics.
25:08How to, for
25:09example, you look
25:10at how M.G.
25:11Ramachandran broke
25:11the DMK.
25:13M.G.
25:13Ramachandran was
25:14the first
25:15U-turn that
25:18occurred in
25:18Tamil Nadu
25:19politics against
25:20Dravidianism.
25:22He openly
25:22went to, when
25:24they were
25:24proclaimedly
25:25against religion,
25:26he openly
25:27went to
25:28the temple
25:30in Karnataka,
25:33Mukambika
25:33temple and
25:35he openly
25:35went to
25:37Acharyas.
25:40The
25:40Tamil Nadu
25:41sentiments
25:42turned against
25:44all that the
25:44DMKs took
25:45for.
25:46So this
25:46is a
25:48poison has
25:51been spread
25:52throughout
25:53Tamil Nadu
25:53against the
25:54Tamil way of
25:55life, Tamil
25:55culture, Tamil
25:56belief, Tamil
25:57literature.
25:57That may have
25:58been the case
25:58in the past.
26:00Today, you
26:01don't believe
26:02that Tamil
26:02cultural identity
26:03and Dravidianism
26:04can coexist?
26:05They can
26:05happen.
26:06Why can't
26:06they coexist?
26:07What I am
26:08saying is it
26:08cannot coexist
26:09for two reasons
26:10because even
26:10they don't
26:11believe in it.
26:12It is only a
26:13narrative.
26:14Tamil, the
26:16way, for
26:17example,
26:18Anadurai
26:18adjusted himself
26:20from being a
26:20Dravidian to
26:21Tamil, Karunanithi,
26:23Stalin couldn't
26:24do it and
26:25this boy can
26:25never do it.
26:27They had a
26:28way of swaying
26:29the people.
26:30I used to be
26:31amazed at the
26:31way they used
26:32to speak in
26:33Tamil.
26:34They cannot
26:35do it.
26:36They are not
26:37trained to sway
26:38the people.
26:39It is swaying
26:40the people that
26:40mattered in
26:41favor of Tamil.
26:42They cannot
26:43do it because
26:44their narrative
26:44is failing by
26:45their own
26:46conduct.
26:47Which is why
26:48the BJP next
26:49year is latching
26:49on to AIDMK.
26:51You see, if
26:52all that you
26:53were saying was
26:54true, then the
26:55BJP should
26:56courageously say
26:57we are going to
26:57spend the next
26:5820 years building
26:59an identity, a
27:00Tamil identity of
27:01our own.
27:01I entirely agree.
27:02This is what I
27:03would advise the
27:03BJP.
27:04But do you mean
27:05I am speaking for
27:05the BJP?
27:07I thought your
27:08advice is always
27:09taken by the
27:09BJP.
27:10No, my advice
27:10will be listened
27:11to.
27:11It is not
27:12that it is
27:12taken.
27:16So what you
27:17are saying is
27:18for example,
27:18the Kashi
27:19Sangamam, all
27:20the efforts the
27:21government is
27:21making to pitch
27:22the Chola
27:23dynasty as one
27:23of the great
27:24Indian dynasties
27:25and rulers of
27:27all of this
27:28needs to be
27:28part of a
27:29larger narrative
27:30now of
27:31rebuilding the
27:32Tamil cultural
27:33identity.
27:33Am I right?
27:34I agree with
27:35you.
27:37And linking it
27:37to Bharati
27:38Yata.
27:39What the
27:40Congress failed
27:41to do after
27:42independence,
27:43gave up all
27:44the symbols of
27:45the freedom
27:45movement, the
27:46BJP has
27:46grabbed.
27:47So whether
27:48it's a single
27:49being put in
27:49parliament.
27:50Anything.
27:50Anything.
27:50You take
27:53anything.
27:55So it was
27:56all Congress.
27:57The Congress
27:58gave it up.
27:59Look at that
27:59speech.
28:00BJP has
28:00stepped in.
28:01So the
28:02BJP is not
28:03the BJP
28:04which was
28:05all the
28:05Jansang or
28:06the RSS
28:07which was
28:07considered,
28:08which was
28:09structured.
28:11It is
28:11ideologically
28:12the Congress,
28:13pre-independence
28:14Congress.
28:15In the same
28:15way, what in
28:16Tamil Nadu,
28:17Congress failed
28:18to do.
28:19Modi is
28:20doing.
28:21The space
28:22which they
28:22have vacated
28:23for the
28:24DMK to
28:24grab,
28:25Modi is
28:26trying to
28:27take it
28:28back.
28:28That is
28:28why my
28:29editorial said
28:29he is
28:30trying to
28:30recover the
28:31Tamil which
28:32the DMK
28:32has stolen.
28:34Your old
28:34friend Arun
28:35Shori once
28:35said BJP
28:36is Congress
28:37plus cow.
28:39You see,
28:39Arun Shori is
28:40my friend
28:40whatever he
28:41says.
28:43You are
28:43also my
28:44friend.
28:45You know,
28:46Caravan wrote
28:47a profile on
28:49me.
28:50I saw
28:50that.
28:51A
28:52Coimbatur
28:52lady only
28:53did it.
28:53It is a
28:53long profile,
28:5430-40 pages.
28:55In which she
28:56had said,
28:57wherever I
28:57went, this
28:57fellow had
28:58friends.
28:59Even among
29:00people who
29:01hate Hindutva
29:02concept, he
29:03has friends.
29:04So, my
29:05friendship cuts
29:06across all
29:07limitations.
29:09You didn't
29:09answer my
29:10question.
29:10You agree
29:10with him,
29:11BJP is
29:11Congress
29:11plus cow?
29:12No.
29:14See,
29:15journalists have
29:16a way of
29:16explaining.
29:17But that
29:18doesn't mean
29:18that is
29:18nearer
29:19truth.
29:19Because
29:19journalists
29:20are great
29:20inventors of
29:21narratives.
29:24Here is
29:24someone who
29:25made his
29:26reputation as
29:27an investigative
29:27journalist at
29:28one state.
29:29Now edits
29:30the Tughla.
29:31But as we
29:31conclude, I
29:32want to ask
29:32you something.
29:33Over the
29:34years, and
29:34you know,
29:35Tamil Nadu
29:35represents this
29:36great civilizational
29:37past of this
29:38country, ancient
29:39language, great
29:41traditions as you
29:42put it.
29:42who for you
29:43is the
29:46inspirational
29:47number one
29:48Tamil Nadu
29:49role model?
29:50Who to you
29:50represents the
29:51best of
29:52Tamil Nadu,
29:53present or
29:54past?
29:54Who is that
29:55figure who
29:56according to you
29:56represents the
29:57best of what
29:58Tamil Nadu
29:58stands for?
29:59You see, in
30:00politics I would
30:01say Kamaraj was
30:02perhaps the
30:04only, only,
30:05because I
30:06moved with it.
30:06as a student
30:09congress
30:09participant, I
30:11used to be
30:12amazed at the
30:13simplicity.
30:14I mean, I
30:15have never seen
30:15a leader like
30:16him.
30:17Ramanath
30:18Goenka told
30:18me, he
30:20used to come
30:20from the
30:21assembly and
30:22sleep for 45
30:22minutes in
30:23his house.
30:25And he
30:25used to give
30:26him 20 pairs
30:27of doti and
30:29kutta.
30:31That was
30:32Kamaraj.
30:32That's it.
30:33That's all.
30:34And when he
30:35died,
30:36in his
30:37almera,
30:37there was
30:38150 rupees.
30:41He's a
30:41great man.
30:43But, the
30:44problem is
30:45Tamil Nadu
30:46had another
30:46longing.
30:48Cultural,
30:49spiritual,
30:50linguistic,
30:52literary,
30:53that could
30:53not be
30:54addressed by
30:54the congress
30:55party.
30:56So, who
30:56represents the
30:57best of that
30:57cultural,
30:58civilizational
30:59model?
30:59I can give
30:59you a list
31:00of 150
31:01people whose
31:01names are
31:02not known to
31:03any of the
31:03people in
31:03Tamil Nadu
31:04today.
31:05Give me
31:05five.
31:06Uwe Swamina
31:07the man who
31:10discovered every
31:11Tamil literature
31:13which we speak
31:13of today,
31:14he went from
31:14place to
31:15place,
31:16every house,
31:17and searched
31:18the old
31:21and brought
31:23it back.
31:25Because he's a
31:25Brahmin, he will
31:26not be respected.
31:28That he did so
31:29much work for
31:30Tamil, he's
31:30forgotten.
31:30Bharatiyar, the
31:35man who put
31:36up Tamil name
31:37in the
31:38nationalist
31:39arena, he
31:41said we are
31:42the best
31:42people, but
31:43we are part
31:44of Bharat.
31:46He is
31:47dismissed.
31:48And Kalyana
31:49Sundarnar, any
31:50amount of
31:51name, I can
31:51reel out names
31:52which many in
31:54the audience may
31:54not even know
31:55today.
31:55So the
31:57cultural Tamil
31:59Nadu was
32:00given up by the
32:00Congress, which
32:01the DMK
32:02grabbed,
32:04actually I
32:05call it
32:05stolen.
32:05You see, every
32:08day in life we
32:09learn new
32:09things.
32:10Today I
32:10learned that you
32:11were a
32:11congressman at
32:12one time.
32:14The only
32:16party in
32:17which I was
32:17was the
32:17Congress
32:18Party.
32:18I was never
32:19in the
32:19Jansang, I
32:19was never
32:20in the
32:20BJP.
32:22The only
32:23party in
32:24which I
32:24had a
32:24membership
32:25was the
32:25Congress
32:26Party.
32:27Such great
32:27people.
32:28How many
32:29simple
32:29people, Ramaya,
32:30the Congress
32:30President, the
32:31man used to
32:32walk on the
32:32road.
32:34What do you
32:35think changed?
32:36Power changed
32:36the Congress?
32:38The culture, the
32:40DMK came and
32:41completely changed
32:42the political
32:42culture of
32:43Tamil Nadu.
32:45Simply
32:45performed,
32:46victory became
32:47more important
32:47than values.
32:52For which even
32:53a person like
32:53Rajaji, whom I
32:55hold in high
32:55esteem, he was
32:56responsible because
32:57of his personal
32:58rivalry with
33:00Kamraj.
33:01He regretted
33:02later, but that
33:02was too late.
33:03politics can
33:06destroy the
33:07culture, value
33:08systems, the
33:09conventions and
33:11established
33:11traditions of a
33:13society.
33:13Tamil Nadu is
33:14an example.
33:17But that's
33:17happening across
33:18the country to
33:18be fair.
33:19Values are
33:20being destroyed
33:21by victory,
33:23especially because
33:24of vote bank
33:24politics.
33:25It's happening,
33:26it's not,
33:26Tamil Nadu is
33:27not unique in
33:28that regard, so
33:29let's not bash
33:30Tamil Nadu also
33:31too much.
33:31I am for
33:32Tamil Nadu
33:33because I
33:34live here, I
33:36have enjoyed
33:36this Tamil, I
33:37got educated in
33:38Tamil medium, I
33:39see even today I
33:40recollect my
33:41Tamil teachers who
33:42used to teach so
33:43well Tamil.
33:44I also learned
33:45English and then I
33:46became an English
33:47journalist itself is a
33:48surprise for people
33:49who saw me as a
33:51Tamil medium
33:51student.
33:52You see, these
33:53are all okay.
33:54I still love
33:55Tamil.
33:55In fact, when
33:56Choramaswabi asked
33:57me to become the
33:58editor of Tughlaq,
34:00I said, will the
34:00Tamil Nadu accept
34:01me because he
34:02was an actor, he
34:03was a multidimensional
34:04man, but I could
34:06still connect to
34:06them because I
34:07knew Tamil Nadu,
34:08its culture, its
34:09values.
34:10I love it.
34:13So, I have to
34:14work here in
34:15Tamil Nadu, I
34:15cannot go and
34:16say what happens
34:16in Bihar or
34:18UP.
34:20I stand for
34:21Tamil Nadu.
34:22You say all
34:23these things and
34:23yet you survive.
34:25In some other
34:26parts of the
34:26country, God
34:27knows what would
34:27have happened,
34:28you'd be in
34:29trouble if you
34:30took on the
34:30ruling government
34:31as you seem
34:32to like to
34:32do.
34:33You see, I
34:34have been taking
34:34on this
34:35government in
34:351971, we
34:36were all
34:36beaten black
34:37and blue,
34:38why did I
34:38join the
34:38RSS?
34:39Because I
34:40didn't know
34:40how to defend
34:41myself.
34:42So, I
34:42joined the
34:43RSS in
34:431971.
34:44It is the
34:44DMK which
34:45forced me to
34:45join the
34:46RSS.
34:49Let's end
34:50on a positive
34:51note.
34:51We are in
34:52Coimbatore,
34:53which as we
34:54discussed, is
34:54really an
34:55entrepreneurial hub,
34:56an example
34:57of what
34:58Tamil Nadu
34:59has achieved
35:00in the last
35:01few decades.
35:02Just a real
35:03energetic hub
35:04of growth.
35:06What is the
35:06best thing
35:07about living
35:09and being
35:09Tamil?
35:11You see,
35:12Tamil is,
35:13of course,
35:14its greatness,
35:15everything is
35:16true, but
35:16the five
35:18districts,
35:19actually there
35:20are, I
35:21would say,
35:21I mean, I'm
35:22very sorry to
35:22mention in terms
35:23of communities
35:24because I
35:24consider communities
35:25as social
35:26capital.
35:27Whether it
35:27is Ludhiana,
35:28Matala,
35:29Rajkot,
35:29Jamnagar,
35:30Morbi,
35:30right down
35:31to Tuthukudi,
35:32my friend
35:32Murilitharan
35:34Chartered
35:34Account is
35:35there.
35:35A team of
35:36us went
35:36and studied
35:37and we
35:37found in
35:38every place
35:39one community
35:40has led
35:41the business
35:41development.
35:43In fact,
35:44in 2000,
35:45when we
35:45conducted the
35:46Swadeshi
35:47Industrial
35:47Fair,
35:48the spirit
35:49of Coimbatore
35:50was slowed
35:50down.
35:52That was the
35:52starting point
35:53of revival.
35:53Actually,
35:5516 industry
35:56associations
35:57gave us
35:57a reception
35:58and said,
35:59you have
36:00completely
36:01changed the
36:02psychology
36:03of Tamil
36:03Nadu.
36:03We all
36:04felt we
36:06were
36:07failed
36:08business
36:09people.
36:10But
36:11we
36:12understood
36:13that the
36:14entrepreneurship
36:15which is in
36:16the blood of
36:17these people
36:17can turn
36:18Tamil Nadu.
36:19Five
36:19districts of
36:20western
36:20Tamil Nadu
36:21is producing
36:2360% of
36:24Tamil Nadu
36:24GDP.
36:25The credit
36:25goes to
36:26this community.
36:27The
36:27entrepreneurship.
36:29Education
36:29institutions
36:30followed
36:30entrepreneurship,
36:31not the
36:32vice versa.
36:32In one
36:33sentence,
36:34what's the
36:34best thing
36:35about living
36:36in Tamil Nadu
36:37and being
36:37Tamilian?
36:37you see,
36:39the best
36:40thing,
36:40it's a
36:40very moderate
36:41society.
36:42Despite all
36:42the extremism
36:43that has been
36:44spread,
36:45Tamil Nadu
36:45has never
36:46taken to
36:46violence.
36:49Except in
36:49patches.
36:52The DMK
36:53also could
36:54not turn
36:55Tamil Nadu
36:56into a
36:56violent society.
36:58Could not.
36:59It is the
37:00kind of work
37:01that was done
37:01by our
37:02rishis,
37:02alwas,
37:03nayanmars,
37:04great people
37:04like Tirulua.
37:05It's not a
37:06joke.
37:06No other
37:07place,
37:08no other
37:08literature,
37:10no other
37:10language as
37:11this kind
37:12of personalities.
37:13So it has
37:14gone so
37:14deep into
37:14our society.
37:16We represent
37:16the best
37:17of what we
37:19call as
37:19Bharatiya.
37:21Okay.
37:22That's
37:23my one
37:24liner.
37:25Tamil Nadu
37:25represents the
37:26best of what
37:27we call
37:28Bharatiya.
37:29On that
37:30note,
37:31yes,
37:32Guru Murthy
37:32for being
37:32provocative and
37:34contentious and
37:35controversial as
37:36ever.
37:36But always
37:37a pleasure
37:39listening to
37:39you.
37:40Thank you
37:41very much.
37:41Ladies and
37:42gentlemen,
37:42please give a
37:43big hand to
37:44S. Guru
37:44Murthy.
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