In an exclusive interview with India Today TV, RSS ideologue Seshadri Chari said that the BJP is not the political wing of RSS rather it is an independent organisation.
00:00Joining me now, my first guest tonight is Seshadri Chari, senior RSS leader, someone who's been
00:05the editor of the RSS's organizer magazine. Appreciate your joining us. Mr. Chari,
00:13thank you very much. RSS at 100. The Prime Minister calls it a selfless organization
00:20committed to nation building. The opposition says that the RSS continues to divide society,
00:26particularly on religious grounds. Do you believe that the RSS even today is seen through the lens
00:34of its idea of a Hindu Rashtra? No, this opposition against RSS is not new, Rajdeep.
00:42It has been going on right from the British times. The British also opposed the RSS. Dr. Hedgivar
00:48himself went to jail twice, once in 1921 and once in 1931, during the Jungle Satyagra. And
00:58in 1922, 12th July 1922, when he was released from jail after one year, there was a welcome
01:06party for him at Nagpur, which was attended by none other than Pandit Motilal Nehru himself.
01:14And Hakeem Ajmal Khan also spoke in that program. Because Dr. Hedgivar was working with the Congress
01:22at that time. Although he had started RSS in 1925, nevertheless, he was also part of the Congress.
01:30So whenever he went to jail, he went as a personal, as an individual, not on part of the RSS.
01:37And he was very particular. He said all Swahim Sevaks who take part in freedom struggle should
01:43take permission from their respective Sangachalaks. And many Swahim Sevaks have taken part in such
01:49activities. But we are not on the side of propagating all these things for the sake of
01:55getting some public post and political post. So those who want to oppose the RSS are free
02:02to do it. But unfortunately, they are the people who don't study history, who don't study books,
02:08who don't try to understand RSS. But they are opposing only for the sake of opposition.
02:13And it is all politically motivated, ideologically motivated. So I am not worried about...
02:18Can I just, Joe, point out what a political scientist, Christophe Jaffrello, a noted political
02:25scientist says. He says the RSS is primarily a movement that is totalitarian.
02:30It is in its attempt at controlling society, but controlling society from the inside. The state
02:37is not the objective. Society is the objective. That the RSS wants to control society and the minds
02:45of people and thereby build the idea of a Hindu society. That's what is the RSS's goal. And in the
02:52process, it looks for an enemy all the time. It could be Muslims one day. It could be Christian
02:58mysteries the other day. It could be the so-called Ghuspaitiyas the third day. How do you respond
03:03to that?
03:05No, no, no. You see, he is totally wrong on all his philosophies and his theories. I have
03:11not read his theory, but from what you are saying, I am saying this. RSS is not worried
03:17about controlling the minds of the people. RSS is a social organization. And we are all concerned
03:24and worried about the Hindu society. It's not that it's only the RSS which is doing it.
03:29Even Mahatma Gandhi himself said that what is Hinduism? We have not defined Hinduism. It is Mahatma Gandhi
03:37who has said about Hinduism that it is a relentless pursuit of truth. And if it is moribund and
03:43irresponsive to growth, it is because we, when he says we, we means Hindu society. He is
03:49irresponsive to growth.
03:52But sir, sir, sir, sir, sir, but two points, sir, sir, one minute. Two points come from what
03:57you said. Number one, you are quoting Gandhi. The fact is the RSS was, was deeply discomfited
04:05by Gandhi. Gandhi's idea was largely based on the idea of Hindu Muslim unity at all costs.
04:12He even fought to try and prevent partition and eventually paid with his life. The RSS on the
04:18other hand, wants to consolidate the idea of Hindu society through Hindu revivalism. So
04:24you can't really equate what the RSS's vision of a strong Hindu society is with what Gandhi
04:30spoke of, surely.
04:31See, we are, I am only quoting what Gandhi said in 1925. The RSS was also founded in 1925.
04:39Swami Vekananda has also said the same thing. Dr. Ani Besant has said the same thing. Yogi
04:44Sri Aurobindo has said the same thing. We all, even Dr. Ambedkar himself said that Hindu society
04:51needs to be changed.
04:54But RSS saw, but the critics say RSS sees the Muslim as the enemy. That's the difference.
04:59We don't see anybody. We don't see anybody as an enemy. There can be no enemy as far as
05:07the nation is concerned, as far as the Hindu society is concerned. We don't have any enemies.
05:13We are only looking at the positive aspect of social regeneration, nationalism. And we
05:20want to draw a broader line. Instead of having Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Sikh and all these
05:26kinds of caste, creed, community, language, identities. We want a larger national identity.
05:33We consider every citizen of India as a citizen and as a nationalist. We don't consider anybody
05:41as an enemy.
05:43The second point you made is that you seem to suggest somewhere that RSS is primarily a
05:49social and cultural organization. How many social and cultural organizations will participate
05:55so actively in politics? How many social and cultural organizations will have pracharaks
06:00who are then loaned to a political party and become the prime minister of the country
06:04like Narendra Modi has? Surely that fiction has ended. The RSS today, why not accept, is no
06:10longer antiseptic to politics.
06:13You are forgetting Atil B. Arivajpayee and Advani.
06:16Sure, and Advani ji, yes.
06:18And there have been other people also.
06:21So how can you call it only a social organization? It's a social organization with a clear political
06:26objective.
06:27RSS does not, is not a political organization. RSS does not believe that politics is the be
06:34all and end all of the society. But RSS Swaimsevaks, again I repeat, RSS Swaimsevaks are free
06:42to join any political party except those which either have extra constitutional authority or extra territorial
06:51loyalty. Except these two kinds of political parties, RSS Swaimsevaks are free to join political
06:58parties and hold office.
07:00Sir, but they all join, they cannot hold office.
07:02Sir, why not accept it? Why not accept it that the Sangh Parivar is Hydra headed, the RSS, you
07:08say is social organization, but it has a political wing called the BJP. Would that not be a more
07:13honest way?
07:14Sorry Rajdeep, I am surprised that you are asking this question. As a journalist of such
07:21a long standing, BJP is not the political organization or the wing of the RSS. BJP, I repeat, BJP is
07:30not the political wing of the RSS. It is an independent organization. It has its own constitution. It was
07:38founded in 1980 in the background of dual loyalty, which was created after 1977 and 1979. So, BJP is
07:48not a political wing of the RSS. Be very clear about it. I am surprised that you are asking this question.
07:54No, no, sir, sir, it's not me. I am surprised that you are surprised given the fact that the RSS, as you
08:01yourself admit, LK Advani, Atal B.R.E. Vajpayee, Narendra Modi, many others, all of them, in some way or the
08:08other, owe allegiance to the RSS. They came from the womb of the RSS. But be that as it may, sir.
08:13Rajdeep, there are Swaim Saviks in the Congress party also. I don't want to name them. They will come into trouble.
08:20Can I, can I, though, ask you this, Seshadi Chari? You came into the RSS in a, in a way in the 1970s. It
08:27came as this movement that stood up to the emergency. There's a belief that power has in some way
08:33contaminated the RSS. For example, riches have come their way. Now, now you see opulent buildings like
08:39Keshav Kunj was reportedly built at 150 crores. There's a sense that with power comes wealth and many of the,
08:46the old values of discipline or probity are losing out in the process. Do you agree with that?
08:52Has the RSS also in some form got corrupted as someone who grew up in an earlier RSS?
08:59What's the difference between the RSS that you grew up in and the RSS of today?
09:03No, no. There is no difference between the RSS in which I grew up and the RSS in which I am now presently also part of the RSS.
09:12And there are, there are facilities which were not available in the 70s and 60s, which are now available.
09:19There have been times when 1955, 60 and even 1947 to 57, 67, even after up to emergency, there have been Pracharaks
09:29who probably would not have got even two square meals a day. They had struggled and they used to travel in ST buses.
09:36I have myself travelled in ST buses in Maharashtra, Konkan region, which you know very well.
09:41You are from Goa. You know how difficult it is to travel in those days.
09:45But now since facilities are available, there is nothing wrong in making use of the facility.
09:50But RSS work does not depend only on logistic support and facility. It depends on the hard work of the Swaimsevaks and Pracharaks.
10:00So there is no difference between the RSS of 1925, 35, 45, 55, 65 and 19, 20, 25.
10:08It is the same. The dedication is the same. The sincerity is the same. The hard work is the same. Only there are facilities which are available, which we are making use of. That's all. Nothing beyond it.
10:21My final question is that there is a sense, Mr. Chari, that the RSS lacks transparency and public accountability.
10:28Does it have a clear constitution? How is the Sarsang Chalak elected?
10:32All these questions are again asked by critics that the RSS is a very secretive organisation
10:37and it is an organisation, therefore, that needs to be held more accountable for its actions or not.
10:43You today on the programme are saying the BJP is not a political affiliate.
10:47Organisation like Bajrang Dal, organisations like BHP, all of them in a way are part of this Sangh Parivar.
10:53Is the RSS an organisation that lacks public accountability? Would you agree?
10:58No, no. The RSS has public accountability. RSS has a constitution. RSS holds meetings every year.
11:07The Pratrinthi Sabha is held every year. Every three years, the Sarakariva is elected.
11:12Elected. Elected. I am repeating. Elected. The Sarasanga Chalak is a fatherly post.
11:18It is a friend philosopher guide post which is not elected.
11:22The Sarasanga Chalak was selected by earlier Sarasanga Chalak.
11:27But from Barashyap Devaras' time, Barashyap Devaras made a change on this.
11:32He said even during his own lifetime, he demitted office and selected some other person like Sudarshanji as the Sarasanga Chalak.
11:40Sudarshanji also demitted office during his own lifetime. And Rajubaiya was elected.
11:46Rajubaiya to Sudarshanji. Sudarshanji to Mohan Bhagwat. So, these things have changed.
11:51There is nothing that RSS keeps hiding. It is not a secret organisation.
11:56Shaka's are held in the open. Shaka's are held in the open. There is no secrecy.
12:02You can come to any Shaka anytime. Say whatever you want. Keep within the discipline of the organisation. That's all.
12:09Like if you go to a Gurudwara, you cover your head. If you come to RSS Shaka, you have to go do by the principles that the Shaka follows.
12:17Beyond that, you are a free person. You can criticise. There are people who are criticising RSS even today.
12:23There are RSS who are criticising RSS today. It's a totally transparent organisation. I think there are people who need to understand RSS.
12:33Come to Shaka and have a face-to-face interaction with RSS. Probably then these questions will not arise.
12:40Seshatri Chari, as someone who has been part of this organisation for 40-50 years and thereby knows the RSS inside out.
12:48I thank you very much for joining me and giving me your perspective on this special day, your eve of the centenary of the RSS.
12:56Thank you so much for joining me. Seshatri Chari there.
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