- 5 months ago
John and Chino discuss the prophetic claims made by Hobart Freeman over Bruce Kinsey, exploring the psychological and theological issues surrounding such declarations. They open with John’s personal story about a similar prophecy given to his grandfather by William Branham, noting the manipulative potential of “guaranteed salvation” promises. Chino introduces rare archival material from 1973, when Freeman proclaimed Bruce Kinsey would carry a “mantle of a prophet” to minister to both Jews and Gentiles. The conversation examines how this early praise and empowerment later contrasted with Freeman’s eventual public rejection of Kinsey when he disagreed with the leader’s teachings, illustrating the inconsistency and control tactics common in high-control religious groups.
They move into a detailed look at Faith Assembly’s atmosphere in the fall of 1984, describing the civil lawsuits, legislative changes, increased media scrutiny, and rising death toll that created a siege mentality in the congregation. Chino analyzes how Freeman’s authoritarian personality traits intensified under external pressure, leading to an increase in manipulative prophecies and fear-based preaching. The discussion connects these patterns to broader historical examples, highlighting the dangers of personal prophecies when used as tools for manipulation rather than genuine encouragement. The segment closes by contrasting biblical prophecy with what occurred in this case, encouraging listeners to measure such claims by scriptural standards and real-world outcomes.
00:00 Introduction
01:03 John shares his family’s bizarre “salvation prophecy” from William Branham
02:58 Freeman’s prophecy over Bruce Kinsey previewed
05:03 The collapse of Faith Assembly begins
08:08 Lawsuit and legal reforms shake the ministry
12:28 Freeman’s paranoia and deepening isolation
14:28 “Deeper Deliverance” and medical demon teachings
17:09 Rising death toll across Freeman’s followers
20:54 Freeman’s sermons turn authoritarian and fearful
23:03 “Leaving Faith Assembly is leaving Christ”
25:00 How cults tighten control under pressure
28:07 Freeman’s narcissism revealed in sermons
33:15 The rise of Bruce Kinsey in Freeman’s inner circle
39:03 Rare 1973 prophecy declaring Bruce a prophet
42:48 Other bizarre visions and “California will fall”
44:54 Prophecy as manipulation and psychological control
51:25 Analysis of the prophecy’s contradictions
57:01 Freeman’s mental state and final collapse
1:02:18 The danger of personal prophecies today
1:07:17 Final reflections on false prophecy and spiritual abuse
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: http
They move into a detailed look at Faith Assembly’s atmosphere in the fall of 1984, describing the civil lawsuits, legislative changes, increased media scrutiny, and rising death toll that created a siege mentality in the congregation. Chino analyzes how Freeman’s authoritarian personality traits intensified under external pressure, leading to an increase in manipulative prophecies and fear-based preaching. The discussion connects these patterns to broader historical examples, highlighting the dangers of personal prophecies when used as tools for manipulation rather than genuine encouragement. The segment closes by contrasting biblical prophecy with what occurred in this case, encouraging listeners to measure such claims by scriptural standards and real-world outcomes.
00:00 Introduction
01:03 John shares his family’s bizarre “salvation prophecy” from William Branham
02:58 Freeman’s prophecy over Bruce Kinsey previewed
05:03 The collapse of Faith Assembly begins
08:08 Lawsuit and legal reforms shake the ministry
12:28 Freeman’s paranoia and deepening isolation
14:28 “Deeper Deliverance” and medical demon teachings
17:09 Rising death toll across Freeman’s followers
20:54 Freeman’s sermons turn authoritarian and fearful
23:03 “Leaving Faith Assembly is leaving Christ”
25:00 How cults tighten control under pressure
28:07 Freeman’s narcissism revealed in sermons
33:15 The rise of Bruce Kinsey in Freeman’s inner circle
39:03 Rare 1973 prophecy declaring Bruce a prophet
42:48 Other bizarre visions and “California will fall”
44:54 Prophecy as manipulation and psychological control
51:25 Analysis of the prophecy’s contradictions
57:01 Freeman’s mental state and final collapse
1:02:18 The danger of personal prophecies today
1:07:17 Final reflections on false prophecy and spiritual abuse
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: http
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00:30Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.
00:00:36I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research
00:00:41at william-branham.org, and with me I have my co-host, minister, and friend, Chino Ross,
00:00:47pastor and the voice of the understanding scripture and truth by Chino D. Ross' YouTube
00:00:52channel.
00:00:53Chino, this is going to be an interesting episode, the subject you've picked today.
00:00:58I don't know that we have talked about this, but my grandfather was the target of a prophecy
00:01:05by William Branham, and these things were given out random.
00:01:11It's like if you understand the psyche of a mentally unstable person, you can kind of understand
00:01:15how this happens, but he would just randomly give out these free gifts to people, and he
00:01:21told my grandfather that you and your children and your grandchildren will be saved, which
00:01:27is a free ticket to salvation, if you understand what that really means.
00:01:31And it wasn't just my grandfather that got the get-out-of-jail-free card from Monopoly.
00:01:36There were other families from coast to coast that had this weird prophecy from William Branham
00:01:42that they had instant salvation, whether they even believed in Jesus Christ or not.
00:01:48I, therefore, because I'm included in the grandchildren, I am part of that prophecy, apparently.
00:01:55So I've got a free ticket to heaven.
00:01:58And what's interesting about that, you know, in my case, me speaking out against the cult
00:02:02that I left, well, what does that mean to the cult?
00:02:05If I have this prophecy, and I'm filled with salvation, according to the cult leader, and
00:02:12I'm also speaking against the cult leader, you end up with this weird conundrum that people
00:02:16don't know what to do with.
00:02:17And, therefore, because of the cult mindset, their brain cannot reconcile it.
00:02:22And so what happens is, in many cases, it's just forgotten, nobody remembers it, nobody
00:02:28knows that John is saved by the prophet, or they will spin it into something else.
00:02:34Maybe John, in the very last moments of his death, is going to turn to the prophet William
00:02:39Branham and suddenly be saved.
00:02:41But, well, it isn't just William Branham that does this.
00:02:45If you look at the other cult leaders, they throw out all kinds of things to say, and you
00:02:50can tell it's clearly not from God, especially when the target is somebody who doesn't stay
00:02:54in the cult, which brings us to our episode today.
00:02:58That's a great introduction, John.
00:03:00What people don't know is you haven't heard what we're going to hear today, but you've
00:03:09been in such a similar cult that you have a good feel of your way around the cult, and
00:03:15no one knows the little brief conversation we had before we went live, but, I mean, you
00:03:22nailed it on the head.
00:03:23So what I want to do to start with, this is just, this is the tease, as they say.
00:03:29This is the advertisement.
00:03:31We have something, I have something that I have had for 50 years.
00:03:36It actually goes back to 1973, so more than 50 years ago.
00:03:42And it's not just something that I have in my private possession.
00:03:46It's something that's publicly available for everyone.
00:03:49And it does concern a prophecy from Hobart Freeman to and about his son-in-law, Bruce Kinsey,
00:03:58about whom we have spoken earlier.
00:04:01So I have other things to say leading into and up to this, but I would recommend people,
00:04:09the ex-faith assembly followers, you're going to want to hear this.
00:04:13You're going to want to hear this.
00:04:15So it's only been a couple of weeks ago, two weekends ago, we were at our meet and greet
00:04:21and up in Indiana where I was able to meet a lot of these ex-faith assembly people, John.
00:04:27And I guess you and I, for the last several months, what we've been mostly dealing with
00:04:34concerning Hobart and faith assembly are doctrines of his and practices of his that are just representative
00:04:43of everything in the latter reign and word of faith movement in general.
00:04:50So they weren't specific to Hobart.
00:04:53You know, I've tried to show how all of this was borrowed from other people.
00:04:58So even if you had never heard of Hobart Freeman and were not a part of the faith assembly in
00:05:05northern Indiana outreach and its satellite groups, people could still find some interest
00:05:12in what we were saying because of similar backgrounds.
00:05:17What I want to do beginning today is get a little bit off of that, although I still think
00:05:23that it will hold everyone's interest because as your introduction just showed, even when
00:05:29it's something that is group specific to certain people and certain ministers within that group,
00:05:38the pattern is still already there.
00:05:40The pattern has been seen in earlier ministries.
00:05:43So I want to do what people are really wanting me to do, and that is to get on up to the actual
00:05:50death of Hobart Freeman, because there are a lot of things that are fascinating around
00:05:55that.
00:05:56So what we've got to do is kind of go back in our mind and memory.
00:06:00You and I talked about this earlier.
00:06:03I mean, months earlier, the fall of 1984.
00:06:07The fall of 1984, Dr. Freeman is going to die in December of that year.
00:06:13Um, you see Faith Assembly almost as a prison camp.
00:06:20Um, the walls are closing in, the clouds are dark and ominous, uh, and it wasn't anything
00:06:27anybody else did.
00:06:28Dr. Freeman and Faith Assembly brought all this on themselves.
00:06:33But if you listen to messages that are being taught in the fall of 1984, you can feel the
00:06:41walls closing in on the people.
00:06:43It's probably something similar to the, um, implosion of any cult, even like Jonestown.
00:06:51I'm sure there were, um, signs of, you know, paranoia and, um, panic, the end of Jonestown.
00:07:01Uh, I'm sure that's true in any kind of cult when, um, you have this encroachment from the
00:07:06outside.
00:07:06So gone are the days 10 years earlier in the mid 1970s when it was a pretty happy and joyful
00:07:13place to be a part of, but there are a series of events that are taking place over this last
00:07:20year of Dr. Freeman's life and ministry that are causing the, the dark clouds of the fall
00:07:28of 1984.
00:07:29And we've talked about these before, but I'm just going to briefly, uh, reiterate them
00:07:34because it's been a while, the first thing that happened was a civil lawsuit that was
00:07:39actually filed in the previous year in 1983.
00:07:43And this was done by a couple in Ohio where the woman, uh, in this marriage had been a part
00:07:52of Steve Hill's group in Rockford, Illinois.
00:07:55Steve Hill had a, a pretty big satellite group up in outside of the Chicago area in Rockford
00:08:01that he would travel to.
00:08:03And this woman was a part of that.
00:08:05And, um, so being a part of that had caused all kinds of personal, emotional, psychological,
00:08:13marital problems.
00:08:15So once she was out, they hired an attorney in Michigan and filed a civil lawsuit against
00:08:22Hobart Freeman, naming him and some of the other ministers such as Steve Hill as defendants.
00:08:28And what they were real, they knew that Hobart Freeman was the, was the backbone to everything
00:08:34happening there in Northern Indiana.
00:08:38And they wanted to get to him.
00:08:40And so what the civil lawsuit was all about was finding out what his assets were.
00:08:45And, you know, we're talking about the early 1980s.
00:08:48That's probably, uh, common today, but way back then, nobody was filing civil lawsuits against
00:08:55ministers because of marital or psychological damage they had caused in the family or in
00:09:02the home.
00:09:03It'd be something I, I would think would be really difficult to prove that you could actually
00:09:08trace whatever's happening in the mind or of that woman or the marriage of that couple
00:09:15back to teaching by Steve Hill that came from Hobart Freeman.
00:09:19Probably be difficult to ever prove in court.
00:09:22Um, but they were feeling the pressure of this civil lawsuit.
00:09:26A second thing that happened that we've also talked about is that the Indiana state legislature
00:09:33jumped into action because of the deaths of people at faith assembly.
00:09:39And what they did is they came in and rewrote the laws in the summer, spring and summer of
00:09:441984, and they took away this, um, religious exemption clause in Indiana state law, which
00:09:53had said that prayer could be offered in lieu of medical treatment.
00:10:01And so consequently, old people had died, young people had died, and especially there had been
00:10:07a very high, uh, spike in infant mortality and what was happening with the faith assembly people
00:10:16is that they were saying we were trusting God and there's a separation in church and state.
00:10:23We have our religious beliefs and you can't infringe on those.
00:10:26And so far they were successful with that kind of defense, but no longer by the summer of 1984,
00:10:33the Indiana state legislature had changed that.
00:10:37And now these families were in the position of possibly being charged with child neglect.
00:10:45If the child had a medical condition serious enough that warranted medical attention and
00:10:51the parent refused to take them into the doctor, now the laws were written in such a way they could
00:10:57be charged with neglect.
00:10:58And then if other things happen, like the child died, uh, then you could be charged with reckless
00:11:03homicide.
00:11:05And that is going to be one of the things that brings Hobart down.
00:11:08When Pamela Meaney, a 15 year old girl died of, um, of kidney issues, she was 15 years old.
00:11:15Then Hobart actually was, um, indicted by a grand jury, charged, fingerprinted, arrested,
00:11:21booked, taken to jail and everything over that.
00:11:24And that was all because of these Indiana state laws.
00:11:27A third thing that came in to play was just how rapidly the church was growing in the 1970s
00:11:36from year to year, say from 74 to 75 in the glory barn, it might've grown by a hundred people
00:11:44and gone from 250 to 350 people.
00:11:48And then by the next year, another jump by a hundred people to 450 and then to 550.
00:11:57Well, by the time we we've gotten to the early 1980s, the church is really growing numerically.
00:12:03He has attracted this widespread following.
00:12:06And so now they are up to several thousand people strong at the new building in Wilmot.
00:12:12And Freeman himself was so isolated and he had become so hardened in his anti-doctors, anti-medical
00:12:24science teaching.
00:12:25He was experiencing some paranoia.
00:12:29He was experiencing this persecution complex.
00:12:33He put that on the church and they definitely experienced that.
00:12:37So everything was shut down to the media, to interviews, to even to outside people coming in.
00:12:46People in the parking lot were on the watch for someone who did not look like they belong there.
00:12:51And this is part of what I'm saying.
00:12:53It's just this dark environment at Faith Assembly in 1984.
00:12:58And when you go back and hear the messages, you can cut the atmosphere with a knife.
00:13:03You feel it so heavily in there.
00:13:05And the people feel it, but they're feeling this pressure because Hobart has flipped everything
00:13:13on its head and said, the reason that we're having all these problems is because we have
00:13:18been so faithful to God in scripture.
00:13:21No one else has been as faithful as us.
00:13:23And that's why we're experiencing this persecution.
00:13:26So he had convinced them in their mind that it was real persecution and that they had earned
00:13:34it in a sense by their faithfulness to God in scripture.
00:13:39So on one hand, it made people excited that we are in the last days.
00:13:46Hobart was teaching this series in Exodus.
00:13:49He only got about nine messages done, but he was basically saying, you Faith Assembly people
00:13:56are like the children of Israel and Egypt, and God is getting ready to set you free from
00:14:03the world.
00:14:05I mean, that has all the overtones of a death cult of Jonestown.
00:14:11God is getting ready to set you free.
00:14:12No Kool-Aid was ever distributed there, but it was still that feeling of us against the
00:14:20world.
00:14:21We're right, and God is going to vindicate us.
00:14:24That same time period, Dr. Freeman was teaching this deeper deliverance and discernment series,
00:14:31which I've always called Psycho Babble.
00:14:34Because it was dealing with multiple personalities, and he was not qualified to teach on any kind
00:14:42of psychiatry or psychology like that.
00:14:46And more than the psychiatry of it all was the medical science part of deeper deliverance
00:14:55and discernment.
00:14:56And we're going to talk about Freeman's view in the future, maybe after we get through with
00:15:00his life and death, we're going to talk about his views and practices of deliverance.
00:15:06They were highly unusual.
00:15:08They were not biblical at all.
00:15:09And some of the people at the meet and greet two weekends ago said, hey, are you ever going
00:15:14to talk about Hobart and his view on deliverance?
00:15:16And the answer is yes, we will.
00:15:19But in this deeper deliverance and discernment, what the people were being told to do was to
00:15:24go back to their childhood by asking their parents, what kind of medical treatment and drugs in
00:15:35particular was I subjected to whenever I was a child?
00:15:40And I think as an outsider, we could look at that and see that things were not happening.
00:15:47People were not being healed.
00:15:49People were not being delivered.
00:15:51People were not being set free.
00:15:53Things were not going the way that Hobart had promised that they would.
00:15:59If you'll find a promise, claim it, believe it, confess it, act on it, endure it.
00:16:03You'll have your answer.
00:16:04People weren't being healed.
00:16:06Things weren't happening.
00:16:08And so there's this thing that begins to go in a person's mind.
00:16:12Well, what else am I missing?
00:16:14What do I need to do to get this answer?
00:16:17I still can't see and pass my driver's test.
00:16:21Um, I still need glasses, but I've claimed my healing and I don't have it yet.
00:16:27So he sent them down this rabbit hole of literally asking their parents, some of whom would not have been
00:16:36faith assembly supporters or members at all.
00:16:39What kind of medications, uh, was I on when I was a child?
00:16:44Then they were, had to name these medications, go through deliverance from these medications in order to receive answers to their promises.
00:16:53I would just say parenthetically to all the people that did that.
00:16:56Did you get any answers after you went through that?
00:16:59Of course not.
00:17:00You know, it's just another illusion, another, um, false hope.
00:17:05So you have this happening, another thing happening, and I'll, I'll take a break here in a minute, John.
00:17:11I just wanted to get through the, the, um, what I think is contributing to this terrible environment at faith assembly in 1984 is that the deaths had spiked.
00:17:21And not only at faith assembly, definitely there in Northern Indiana, but in all the satellite groups as well, um, you have the local papers who the previous year had done some articles on, you know, there's 56 deaths.
00:17:40Now there are 94 deaths because the Fort Wayne paper and the Warsaw, Indiana paper had picked these up.
00:17:47Then so had the Chicago newspaper and so had the New York times.
00:17:52You can find articles from this, um, period in American history in Indiana, late 1984 of articles in the New York times about the deaths happening there.
00:18:05And if I'm not mistaken, uh, even Ted Koppel on nightline did either an episode or mentioned it.
00:18:17In some, as some fragment of a show, you know, Ted Koppel was a guy that had the big thick hair piled on top of his head and just what a great, um, news guy.
00:18:27What a great speaker, but I'm pretty sure Ted Koppel did something.
00:18:31So there are just a lot of people dying everywhere.
00:18:34And not only at faith assembly, they're dying in some of the satellite groups.
00:18:38So if you read the newspaper articles that I have over here on, in my files, and we've looked at some of those, the Evie Swanson, uh, the author Graham, those were people in and around Northern Indiana.
00:18:51You'll see a lot of people dying there, but not only there, you'll find them dying in satellite groups elsewhere.
00:18:57So Tom Hamilton, who was a very well-known follower of Hobart Freeman, but who was never a part of faith assembly, had his own church for years and years.
00:19:09Um, the remnants of it still exist here in Kentucky in Shelbyville, Kentucky.
00:19:16And he had a couple in his church there.
00:19:20They also made the Indiana papers, even though they were not at faith assembly, they were down in Tom Hamilton's church and their name was Terry and Rhonda Murphy.
00:19:30And in March of 1981, they had a baby die in childbirth in March of 82.
00:19:39They had a baby die in childbirth and they were charged with reckless homicide in Kentucky.
00:19:45In, in Shelby County, Shelbyville, Kentucky.
00:19:48I've talked to some people who were a part of Tom Hamilton's church, and they said that Rhonda and Terry lost at least a, another one, a third one, if not a fourth one.
00:20:00So there were two in the paper.
00:20:02They think for certain that it three died and it's possible that four died.
00:20:07The only reason that I happen to mention them, Terry and Rhonda Murphy in particular is because of this.
00:20:13Terry's brother-in-law worked for me.
00:20:18Terry's brother-in-law worked for me for a number of years.
00:20:22He had actually, the man that worked for me, uh, who was married to Terry's sister, uh, had actually been a part of the big Acton church outside Indianapolis that Jeff Barnett was pastor of for several years.
00:20:36So this family of the people that worked for me had gotten kicked out of Jeff Barnett's church because they disagreed with some things, had migrated down to Kentucky and had joined Tom Hamilton's church.
00:20:50So there are now some people from Indiana down there.
00:20:54So this young man worked for me for a number of years.
00:20:57Uh, so I also knew the Murphy's through him.
00:21:01Um, and actually whenever the Murphy's Terry and Rhonda built a new house, uh, our company, my company did all the cabinets in their new house.
00:21:09And it's not been that many years ago.
00:21:13I can't even tell you.
00:21:14I don't know if it's been 10 years ago that, um, Terry Murphy, the father himself died a terrible death of cancer.
00:21:21Um, but the Murphy people are still around here.
00:21:24So I'm simply saying that if you're the pastor of faith assembly and you have all of these people dying, uh, you're feeling the pressure of it.
00:21:34And then one final thing that I'll say is that because of the deaths, parents of these children and because of the laws passed are now being charged and tried and convicted and sentenced to prison.
00:21:48And we've talked about this in the past, Gary and Margaret Hall and David and Kathleen Bergman were the two early examples of what law enforcement and the courts in Indiana were wanting to do.
00:22:04And that is make an example of a couple of people, a couple of families there at faith assembly.
00:22:10So they could hopefully bring everything to arrest, stop all of that from happening.
00:22:17And so this is a background, John, to a, um, a little small clip.
00:22:24I want you to play Hobart did a series called the judgments of Jude.
00:22:29This is this little small epistle of Jude at the end of the new Testament.
00:22:34And as you can, um, hear in the title to the whole series, the judgments of Jude, it's Hobart as his best threatening people that they better not fall away from the faith.
00:22:47And in one of the messages, which was entitled the day of the Lord, you fall away, we'll say it again from faith assembly.
00:22:57You're falling away from the faith.
00:22:58You can call it whatever you want.
00:23:00If a five-year-old stands up there and reads the word, a promise of God, and some skeptic sits out there 25 or 35 years old and says, I don't believe it.
00:23:11He's falling away from the word of that five-year-old because it came right out of the word of God.
00:23:16So when you fall away from the word of faith assembly, you fall away from the faith because that's all we teach is faith.
00:23:21And it's right out of the word of God.
00:23:22You find something, you find something, find something that isn't in line with the word of God.
00:23:29You go ahead and find it.
00:23:31No, I don't care what that sounds like.
00:23:33And so what we hear in that is Hobart said, if you fall away from faith assembly, you fall away from the Christian faith.
00:23:43That terrified people.
00:23:45I mean, this had been their church.
00:23:46They've been going to this church for years and he equates the kingdom of God with the four walls of faith assembly.
00:23:56And this wasn't the only time he said it.
00:23:58This was just a time toward the end of his ministry that he said it in the Colossians series.
00:24:03He said it over and over, but this is a good example of him saying, if you fall away from faith assembly, you can't be saved.
00:24:13You have fallen away from God.
00:24:16Jesus is not your Savior and Lord anymore.
00:24:20You are not in the Christian faith.
00:24:22If you leave our church, fall away from it means you become critical of it like I did.
00:24:27You become critical and you lead.
00:24:29If you do that, you're a lost person.
00:24:32You can't be saved and you're going to hell.
00:24:35It's almost like there's this cookie cutter stamp of what it looks like whenever you make a cult.
00:24:40And whenever a cult leader becomes authoritarian and when outside pressure comes in because they all act, behave, have prophecy.
00:24:49It's all the same thing over and over and over.
00:24:52Whether you're talking about Hobart Freeman, Jim Jones, Branham, any of these guys.
00:24:56There was a point in time in which during the early years of Latter Rain, whenever everybody was excited and welcome and happy and I don't care if you're Catholic, come join us.
00:25:07I don't care if you're Baptist, come join us.
00:25:09That's how the mentality was.
00:25:11And then after people started realizing that there's no doctrinal grounding in this movement, people started telling them, we don't want parts with this Latter Rain, so we're going to disconnect.
00:25:25It's not that we don't love you, but we don't want this unscriptural thing.
00:25:29So they started disconnecting and the money started, you know, not coming in as much.
00:25:35Well, that's the point in time in which you can watch things starting to tighten and squeeze.
00:25:40Then as things got worse and the controversy started brewing, you could see very clearly the change in the ministries as they felt what pressure was coming from the outside.
00:25:52Those who were authoritarian and wanted to have control, they can't deal with outside pressure that they can't control.
00:26:00So the narcissistic personality disorder kicks in and the only way that they have to satisfy that hunger for control is to control the people that they can control.
00:26:13They can't control the outside situations, but here's a group of people.
00:26:17I'm going to just come down really, really hard on those people.
00:26:20And that's generally what happens over time.
00:26:23And as you, you know, you played that clip.
00:26:27I had not heard the one of the prophecy, which we'll get into that a bit more.
00:26:31But as you've been talking, scanning through it, it just reeks of the authoritarian control.
00:26:37As you look through not just what he's saying about Bruce, but the entire sermon as you get into it, it's all about elitism, control.
00:26:45There isn't – what I was looking for as I was scanning through that sermon was something of substance as it relates to the gospel or the Bible.
00:26:54It's not there.
00:26:55It's just totally missing.
00:26:57But the people have been under that pressure and that control so much that they're not realizing that this isn't – this actually isn't a sermon.
00:27:04They're calling it a sermon, and he's getting up in his Sunday clothes and preaching.
00:27:08But what this is is a retribution for all of the outside pressure that he can't stop.
00:27:13It's coming down.
00:27:14The focal point is the people, and he's coming down very hard on the people.
00:27:18That's exactly right, John.
00:27:20And I apologize for talking so long there in the introduction, but I just wanted people to be able to feel what you just said in a couple of sentences.
00:27:28And it took me 20 minutes to say that the walls are closing in, the sky is falling down, and, yeah, he's feeling pressure.
00:27:37And you're so right that this is not the gospel.
00:27:40Well, I'm reminded, you know, as I listen to Hobart's messages, even to this day, to, you know, find the appropriate clip I would like everyone else to hear.
00:27:51So, yes, unfortunately, I'm still listening to him today.
00:27:54Other people aren't.
00:27:55And when they hear his voice, they go, oh, wow, that is creepy, and it brings back – they just have a physical, psychological reaction sometimes to hearing his voice.
00:28:07I don't, because I hear his voice every week as I'm listening to different old messages.
00:28:12But as I do hear them every week, one thing that just stands out, and the more you listen, the more you hear, I'm reminded of what Paul said in Acts 20 to the Ephesian elders.
00:28:25Paul had spent, what, three years in Ephesus.
00:28:32He's not going to go back there again, so he's sailing on his way to Jerusalem.
00:28:37He calls them over to Miletus, all the elders of the church in Ephesus, and he's just giving them a charge to take care of the flock that God has entrusted to them.
00:28:47And in that message from Paul to the Ephesian ministers and elders, he said that of your own selves will men arise to draw away disciples after themselves.
00:29:03And, you know, we know that verse is there, and we hear that.
00:29:07But when you listen to Hobart, he is constantly talking about himself.
00:29:12I don't care if it's a 1970 or 1980 or 1984 message.
00:29:19He is constantly talking about himself.
00:29:22And we've covered this before, John.
00:29:25I'm not opposed.
00:29:26I don't think anyone's opposed to your local pastor or a Christian minister telling a story about himself.
00:29:33We need to know something about him.
00:29:35But with Hobart, it was something of another league.
00:29:39He just constantly is saying, I and me and mine, and I did this.
00:29:43And, you know, this verse, let me tell you a story from my life.
00:29:47And you can better understand this verse, and everything is in the context of himself.
00:29:52I mean, it's really creepy.
00:29:54I teach regularly, and I will occasionally tell a story about myself.
00:29:58But I am certain, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that if you go listen to all of my messages, you will not hear this constant reference.
00:30:08But you do in Hobart.
00:30:09And, wow, when you read that, you know, and I don't, I don't go down the path of saying, because people will ask me, they ask me all the time, do you think Hobart deliberately was trying to deceive people?
00:30:24I say, you know, I can't read somebody else's mind.
00:30:27All I know is the cold reality of whether it was done intentionally or not.
00:30:34Here's the devastation that followed.
00:30:36Those are the cold, hard facts that no one can dispute.
00:30:40We could dispute intent.
00:30:42Did he start off right, end up wrong?
00:30:45Was he always wrong?
00:30:46Was he mostly right at the beginning and partly wrong and mostly wrong and partly right at the end?
00:30:53You know, I don't have the ability to judge anyone's intent.
00:30:57All I know are the cold, hard facts is here's where we ended up.
00:31:00Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started, or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign, charismatic, and other fringe movements into the New Apostolic Reformation?
00:31:14You can learn this and more on William Branham Historical Research's website, william-branham.org.
00:31:21On the books page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book.
00:31:36You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements.
00:31:42If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the Contribute button at the top.
00:31:49And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to or watching.
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00:32:00So, as I'm seeing these things happen, you know, then I write my own letters.
00:32:07I try to talk to Hobart on the phone, and June won't let me get through to him anymore.
00:32:11So, I write some letters saying, what's going on at Faith Assembly?
00:32:15You've got all these people dying.
00:32:17So, I become bait from the pulpit.
00:32:21You know, here's another guy who's gone out, biting the hand that fed him.
00:32:26That was the favorite statement of his.
00:32:29Criticizing what he once praised.
00:32:30That was another favorite statement.
00:32:32Because he knew me that, as a teenager, I had followed everything that he said.
00:32:38But I just couldn't wrap my head around hundreds of people dying,
00:32:42and no one in the ministry there pushing the pause button,
00:32:47and saying, wait a minute, I know we believe all these promises.
00:32:51We think they're in God's word, and this, that, and the other.
00:32:54But let's push the pause button.
00:32:56We are losing members.
00:32:57We've lost a 20th of our congregation to unnecessary death.
00:33:03Yes, people have died in other churches, but not to this degree, not in this proportion.
00:33:09So, we need to push the pause button and find out what's going on.
00:33:12I raise an objection, and coming now to where I want to come in the second part of this podcast,
00:33:19his son-in-law, Bruce Kinsey, who was second in command, married to his middle daughter, Kathy.
00:33:26Kathy, that called me last week, and we talked about that in the last podcast.
00:33:32She's in her late 70s, I would guess, by now.
00:33:35But Bruce Kinsey's widow, Hobart's middle daughter, Kathy Freeman Kinsey, called me last week.
00:33:41This is Bruce Kinsey, second in command at Faith Assembly, a dynamic personality and speaker
00:33:48who was the one who was in charge of filling the pulpit himself or assigning the pulpit
00:33:55to another minister whenever Hobart was gone, or Hobart was, you know, away on vacation,
00:34:02or it was not, you know, Hobart's time to speak.
00:34:05Hobart normally spoke on Sunday evening and Wednesday evening by the end of his ministry.
00:34:09So the Sunday morning pulpit at Faith Assembly was a coveted prize, and Bruce was the one
00:34:16who was in charge of assigning who would get to speak at Faith Assembly on Sunday morning.
00:34:23I mean, if you got to do that, and you're one of those so-called word ministers, that was
00:34:27a big deal to get to address the entire congregation.
00:34:30So this is the power that Bruce Kinsey had.
00:34:35Bruce had married Kathy as an unsaved man in 1970, and through the witness of Kathy and
00:34:44the prayers of other people, Bruce was converted to Christianity in 1973.
00:34:50And by the next summer, he was converted in the spring of 1973.
00:34:57By the summer of 1974, he was given the pulpit.
00:35:02He was a brand new one-year-old Christian, you know, one-year-old Christian.
00:35:07Go back our audience here, John, in your life and my life to when you had been a Christian
00:35:13for one year.
00:35:14How much did you really know?
00:35:16So not very much compared to what you know now.
00:35:19He was given the pulpit at the Glory Barn for the big Friday night meeting.
00:35:24There were hundreds, several hundred people that showed up at the Friday night meeting
00:35:29at the Glory Barn, and Bruce had that pulpit.
00:35:32And by the next year, in 1975, he started the satellite group up at Purdue University called
00:35:39The Lighthouse.
00:35:40And that was kind of between the Friday night meeting and the West Lafayette-Purdue meeting,
00:35:46that was kind of Bruce's, you know, main two gigs.
00:35:49A lot of followers.
00:35:52Bruce was very well liked.
00:35:54Bruce was very well respected.
00:35:57But he was a Freemanite, as was I back in the 70s.
00:36:00He believed everything Dr. Freeman said.
00:36:02But because he had been a captain in the Marine Corps, had served a tour of duty in Vietnam,
00:36:12you know, he was a man's man.
00:36:13He had a commanding presence.
00:36:16He was spending his time studying the Bible after he got saved in 1973 and listening to
00:36:22his father-in-law's tapes.
00:36:23So he was rapidly learning, although you still, you can only learn so much in a 12-month period.
00:36:30But I think because of how Bruce was converted, because of who he was married to,
00:36:41because of the fact that he had served in Vietnam in the Marine Corps,
00:36:47he had all of these things in his favor, his personality, that caused him to rise to the
00:36:55cream of the crop and be given these important positions.
00:36:59He also was the one that was handling the tape duplication and ministry of Dr. Freeman.
00:37:04He was handling that himself.
00:37:06And then he hired John Abel to do that.
00:37:09And John Abel did that for several years by himself.
00:37:12And as the ministry grew, then he got some other people to come in there and help him do that.
00:37:18So Bruce wrote this little book, became a really popular book entitled God Will Save Your Loved Ones.
00:37:26And on the back of the book, there are a couple of pictures, one of Bruce and Kathy,
00:37:31which you can show the people, John, and another of the entire Freeman family with Dr.
00:37:37Freeman and June sitting on a little bench behind their house on Shoe Lake and the three married daughters
00:37:45and their husbands and then the grandchildren.
00:37:52So Bruce is a very important figure.
00:37:56And as I said a few moments ago, I was one of the people, I'm sure there were other people,
00:38:03and I happened to be one of the people who was a nobody, who was beginning to complain to Dr. Freeman
00:38:10about the path the church was taking.
00:38:12So my complaints did not register.
00:38:16And I understand that I wasn't anybody of any significance.
00:38:21Bruce was.
00:38:22Bruce was second in command.
00:38:24And Bruce began to object to what was going on.
00:38:28So much so that he ended up leaving Faith Assembly.
00:38:34Here's the point that I don't think people realize.
00:38:37Everyone knew that Bruce left.
00:38:39A lot of people that followed Faith Assembly and Hobart had this book or knew about this book
00:38:46because Bruce gives his whole testimony in here.
00:38:49And that's how you can come up with some of the dates and the progress of Christianity
00:38:54and his life and ministry and so forth.
00:38:57What people don't realize is that just a few months after Bruce was saved,
00:39:07so we're talking about 1973, Hobart Freeman gave a prophecy to Bruce Kinsey.
00:39:15It was recorded.
00:39:17It is still available out there on YouTube.
00:39:20We are going to play it for everyone here in just a moment.
00:39:23And people are welcome to go and find the entire message.
00:39:28And they'll see that Hobart, after that, went on to prophesy to Steve Hill and Pam Hill.
00:39:34That's his oldest daughter and her husband, another tier one minister at Faith Assembly.
00:39:41And he has some other prophecies on there as well.
00:39:44So it's on a message.
00:39:46Let me just give the background before we play this clip.
00:39:49And what's interesting, John, is on the tape list that came out right before Hobart died
00:39:55and then right after he died, this was under the Miscellaneous series.
00:40:05And it was M304.
00:40:08And you say, where's the 301, 2, and 3?
00:40:12Well, I had those because on the earlier tape list, the first two were worship,
00:40:18praise and worship at Faith Assembly, parts 1 and 2.
00:40:21That's 301 and 302.
00:40:23Then 303 and 304 were called Ministering by the Spirit, part 1 and part 2.
00:40:31Well, they got rid of one of those.
00:40:33It's no longer on the tape list.
00:40:35They got rid of the other worship tapes, but the one that was still on the tape list that
00:40:39came out, this is an old tape list.
00:40:43I'll even show it where you can see under the Miscellaneous right here, you're missing
00:40:49the first three tapes.
00:40:51But the one that is still available and the one that is online isn't called part 1 or part
00:40:572.
00:40:57It's simply called Ministering by the Spirit.
00:41:00And what Hobart meant by a tape entitled Ministering by the Spirit, for people who are unfamiliar
00:41:08with this, is normally when you show up at a Faith Assembly service, you're going to hear
00:41:23a message.
00:41:25Rarely, and sometimes at the end of the message, Hobart might have, you know, operate in the
00:41:30so-called gifts of healings, word of knowledge.
00:41:33He might have some prophecies.
00:41:35There might be a few gifts of tongues and interpretation.
00:41:39You know, for non-charismatic people, this is really strange.
00:41:42For charismatic people, you've heard of this type of thing before, and it might happen a
00:41:47little bit at the end of the service, and that would be infrequent.
00:41:52Rarely, you would attend church, and the entire service, there is no preaching.
00:41:59There is no teaching.
00:42:01Hobart, as the minister, is up front.
00:42:04He's been fasting and praying that day.
00:42:06He feels the anointing of the Holy Spirit on him.
00:42:09And so, the entire service is what they call ministering in or by the Spirit.
00:42:18So, he will have messages in tongues and interpretation and prophecy and relate visions, and most of
00:42:28it is done by him.
00:42:30Occasionally, he will allow other people to say something.
00:42:34This would be interesting to you, John, if you go hear this tape, because one of the—during
00:42:44this whole service, and you will—this will be very interesting to you because of your
00:42:48background with William Branham—during this ministering by the Spirit, a man comes up and
00:42:57whispers in Hobart's ear, and you can kind of pick up this stuff.
00:43:01You know, there's a microphone there.
00:43:02This isn't the best recording, but it's plenty clear enough to hear everything.
00:43:07This young man had just had a vision that he wanted to relate to Hobart.
00:43:13Hobart listened to it.
00:43:14He wanted to clear it, and he said, all right, I'm going to let him just share this real briefly.
00:43:18He had had a vision that while the whole body there at Faith Assembly in the Glory Barn was
00:43:24praying for, interceding for the nation, that he had witnessed California falling into the sea,
00:43:33but their prayers had prevented that from happening.
00:43:38So rather than California fall into the sea, California did not fall into the sea.
00:43:43And as far as I'm aware today, 52 years later, California is still there, right?
00:43:51Yeah.
00:43:51California hasn't fallen into the sea.
00:43:53Hey, I'll give you a moment to say I know what you want to say about William Branham, okay?
00:43:58You know, it's interesting how many different groups have a prophecy about California.
00:44:03And Branham's one of them.
00:44:05I know that's where you're headed with this.
00:44:06Branham's one of his big things he claimed in the last years as retribution to California
00:44:13for not accepting him as, you know, the Pentecostal leader, whatever it was.
00:44:19He said that before his son, who is now, who died of different complications, but mostly of old age,
00:44:27he said, before my son, Billy Paul Branham, is an old man, California will sink.
00:44:32But you can go back long before Branham.
00:44:35You had, I just looked up one of the guy's names, Joe Brandt in 1937, apparently had a similar prophecy.
00:44:44And same thing.
00:44:45I mean, you find these people that are having these prophecies left and right, but California's still there.
00:44:51Like you said, it is still there.
00:44:54And in the end, I was thinking through this as I was talking to somebody,
00:44:58trying to explain them the difference between a biblical prophecy and what you had in this movement.
00:45:05If I had a 50-gallon vat in my garage that I hooked a water hose to, and I said,
00:45:12come over, neighbors, and I've got the thing filled with the finest wine,
00:45:16and I hand somebody the handle of the spout, well, I'm controlling what's on the other end of that.
00:45:21I'm controlling what comes out of that spout.
00:45:23And if they use their, you know, the handle and they put it in their glass,
00:45:28they're going to get wine because I'm controlling it.
00:45:30God controls what comes out of the mouth of the prophets.
00:45:33If that person who's holding the nozzle of my water hose wants it from the neighbor's house because he wants water,
00:45:41well, I can't give him that because I'm controlling what comes out of that spout.
00:45:45But the way that this movement has reinterpreted what prophecy is,
00:45:50they want to be, the person who has the handle wants to control what comes out of the hose.
00:45:56They literally want to control God.
00:45:58And that's exactly what a narcissist does.
00:46:01They want to control the prophecy.
00:46:04But again, and I'm going back to this Bruce Kinsey prophecy,
00:46:08the prophecy itself, if you understand the context in which this thing is given,
00:46:14the prophecy itself is a means to try to control and manipulate Bruce.
00:46:19That's what it is.
00:46:21It's a narcissistic.
00:46:22It's not even a prophecy.
00:46:23It is a narcissistic means to control.
00:46:27Cult leaders and cult members will do this.
00:46:30I have had, whenever I left the Branham cult,
00:46:34I'm not going to give his name,
00:46:35but somebody who is high up, well-respected in the Branham cult,
00:46:39wanted to scare my wife and said,
00:46:42before the year is over, John's wife will divorce him.
00:46:46And so everybody, that was a prophecy.
00:46:48Now, do they remember this?
00:46:49No, they don't.
00:46:50It's forgotten the time because it didn't happen.
00:46:53My wife is still with me.
00:46:54I had prophecies about my death.
00:46:56They wanted to scare me.
00:46:58I had all kinds of things that come out,
00:47:00and they were tools to manipulate me,
00:47:03the person who was leaving.
00:47:05Well, same thing with Bruce.
00:47:06This is a tool of manipulation.
00:47:09And Hobart Freeman, he's wanting,
00:47:12as the person who's holding the water hose
00:47:14that's tied to the prophetic gift from God,
00:47:17he's wanting to control what comes out of it.
00:47:19And that's exactly backwards from the biblical prophets.
00:47:23They opened their mouth to speak because God put the words there,
00:47:26not because they wanted to control what came out of God.
00:47:29Well, don't keep people in the dark any longer.
00:47:31Let's play this clip for them.
00:47:33It's going to be kind of long.
00:47:35It's about four minutes.
00:47:36Praise the Lord.
00:47:37The Lord wants me to minister to Bruce and Kathy.
00:47:40Praise the Lord.
00:47:44Praise the Lord.
00:47:48I never do select the family to prophesy to.
00:47:55So it has to be the Lord.
00:47:58Praise the Lord.
00:48:01I have taken a hold of thy wings, and I have turned thee unto myself.
00:48:30Lord, not for thy sake, but for my name's sake, saith the Lord.
00:48:40For yea, did not thy mother and my father,
00:48:45thy mother-in-law, thy father-in-law, claim thee,
00:48:50even in the midst of thy darkness and sin and rebellion.
00:48:58And I would have thee know tonight, saith God, that I honored their faith.
00:49:03And thou canst stand in eternity and know that it's because of their faith that thou didst stand before me as my servants.
00:49:13And now, having made known to thee, the basis upon which I would speak to thee, my son and my daughter,
00:49:23I want thee to know that an eternal anointing of love and power and grace and ministry doth rest upon thy shoulders as a mantle of a prophet
00:49:42And as a minister of the word of God, I would send thee forth to the Gentiles, to the unbelieving, as well as to the Jew,
00:49:52who would hear from thee words that thou would speak directly by revelation, inspiration from heaven.
00:50:00And do not hesitate to speak that which I would say through thee,
00:50:07but speak in great power and anointing, but remember, my son and my daughter,
00:50:15to speak in power and tempered with love,
00:50:20for thou wast shown love by me through my son Jesus Christ.
00:50:26And in all the rebellion of thine heart, I loved thee,
00:50:31and I waited for thee,
00:50:33and when the time was set for turning, I turned thee unto myself,
00:50:38and I would have thee know that it's all grace and mercy
00:50:41by which thou didst stand tonight.
00:50:45And I want thee to spend thy time, saith God,
00:50:50in my word,
00:50:51and as I would have studied,
00:50:54and meditate,
00:50:56and read my word,
00:50:58saith God,
00:50:59I will amoint thee
00:51:01with the ability to interpret.
00:51:05Thou shalt not
00:51:06need the help of man,
00:51:08but I will,
00:51:10saith God,
00:51:11direct thy steps,
00:51:12and open thine understanding,
00:51:15to receive the deeper truths
00:51:17of my holy scriptures,
00:51:20saith God.
00:51:21Praise God.
00:51:23Praise God.
00:51:24Praise God.
00:51:25And be faithful unto that which thou hast heard,
00:51:28and thou shalt stand and say,
00:51:31it is just as God said,
00:51:32because it is coming to pass,
00:51:34saith the Lord.
00:51:35Praise God.
00:51:37Praise God.
00:51:37You know, so in hindsight, John,
00:51:39you know, years later,
00:51:40when Bruce ends up being critical of Hobart
00:51:42and leaving,
00:51:43it's amazing that this prophecy is,
00:51:47you know,
00:51:48still in the top drawer.
00:51:50It's still there.
00:51:52What are you going to do with it?
00:51:54You know,
00:51:55Hobart says at the very beginning of that,
00:51:57the Lord wants me to minister
00:51:58to Bruce and Kathy,
00:52:00and I think the next sentence he said,
00:52:03he said,
00:52:03I never prophesied a family member.
00:52:07She said,
00:52:07I don't ever do that.
00:52:09So that has to be the Lord.
00:52:11How does that first sentence prove
00:52:14that second sentence?
00:52:16I never,
00:52:17I mean,
00:52:17it's just crazy the way
00:52:20even his own mind was thinking
00:52:23by virtue of the fact that I never do this,
00:52:27the fact that I'm going to do it now
00:52:29means that it's of God.
00:52:31That's like saying,
00:52:31well,
00:52:32I never robbed banks,
00:52:34but now that I'm going to rob this one,
00:52:36that proves that it's from the Lord.
00:52:38I mean,
00:52:38you could fill in anything.
00:52:39I never tell a lie,
00:52:41but now that I'm going to tell this lie,
00:52:42that proves that it's from the Lord.
00:52:44And people just bought into that.
00:52:46They thought,
00:52:46oh yeah,
00:52:47wow.
00:52:47He never,
00:52:48he never prophesied to the family.
00:52:51And,
00:52:51but he's the one who has sown that
00:52:54fall in their mind.
00:52:56Wow.
00:52:57They're going to say to themselves,
00:52:58but they heard him say that.
00:52:59And he does the same thing later
00:53:01on this same message
00:53:02when he prophesied to Steve Hill
00:53:05and Hobart's daughter,
00:53:07Pam.
00:53:07He said,
00:53:08well,
00:53:09you know,
00:53:09I never prophesied of the family.
00:53:11So this proves that it's from God
00:53:13and people are going,
00:53:14wow.
00:53:15I mean,
00:53:15his honesty to let us know
00:53:18that he never would normally
00:53:20practice this nepotism
00:53:22under regular circumstances.
00:53:24So this has to be divine.
00:53:28But what do we hear in this prophecy?
00:53:30He said,
00:53:31I'm calling God,
00:53:32thus saith the Lord.
00:53:34I am calling Bruce
00:53:36to the ministry of a prophet.
00:53:39You have the mantle of a prophet.
00:53:42I mean,
00:53:42it kind of sounds a little bit
00:53:44like the apostle Paul.
00:53:45You're going to minister to the Jew
00:53:47and to the Gentile.
00:53:48Whoever says anything like that today,
00:53:51whoever says you're going to minister
00:53:54to the Jew
00:53:54and to the Gentile.
00:53:56And what's so interesting
00:53:57in all of Freeman's prophecies
00:53:59and so many people
00:54:00are all the these
00:54:02and the thou's
00:54:03and the ye's
00:54:04and the ye's.
00:54:06And that's King James English,
00:54:08which that's,
00:54:09that did not exist
00:54:10back in biblical days.
00:54:12That wasn't in Hebrew.
00:54:13That wasn't in Greek.
00:54:15That's King James English.
00:54:18But they think that somehow,
00:54:20I don't know,
00:54:20it's just,
00:54:21it's just the most
00:54:23psychologically
00:54:25messed up stuff.
00:54:29And at the very beginning,
00:54:31you're so right, John.
00:54:33He is definitely
00:54:34manipulating Bruce.
00:54:36Bruce has only been saved
00:54:37a few months.
00:54:38So Bruce isn't critical
00:54:40of Hobart at all.
00:54:41But Hobart already has
00:54:43his claws in him.
00:54:44The very beginning of this
00:54:46by saying the only reason
00:54:47that you are saved
00:54:48is because of the faith
00:54:49of your parents
00:54:50and because of the faith
00:54:51of June and I,
00:54:53because of your in-laws.
00:54:54We're the ones
00:54:55who claimed you
00:54:56and so you kind of
00:54:58owe your salvation
00:54:59to other people,
00:55:00not to God.
00:55:01You owe it to your parents
00:55:03and to your in-laws,
00:55:04June and I.
00:55:06Now Hobart's going to
00:55:08prophesy over him
00:55:09and say,
00:55:10I'm sending you out
00:55:12to a ministry
00:55:14with the mantle
00:55:15of a prophet
00:55:16to both Jew
00:55:18and Gentile.
00:55:20You know,
00:55:20I just read Romans 1
00:55:22or I see Galatians
00:55:23when I see all this.
00:55:25What I'm wondering though,
00:55:27John,
00:55:27are do the people
00:55:28who followed Hobart
00:55:31in the late 70s,
00:55:33early 80s,
00:55:34the people who are still
00:55:35following Hobart today,
00:55:37are they even aware
00:55:39of this prophecy?
00:55:40Are they aware
00:55:41that the same man
00:55:43that Hobart,
00:55:45by divine inspiration
00:55:47of the Spirit,
00:55:49prophesied to,
00:55:51called him into
00:55:52the ministry of a prophet,
00:55:54is the same one
00:55:55Hobart prophesied to later
00:55:57and kicked out
00:55:58of the church
00:55:59and said,
00:55:59I'm going to remove
00:56:00your lampstand
00:56:01because Bruce did not
00:56:03like Hobart's teaching
00:56:04against hunting,
00:56:05against sodomite shoes,
00:56:07and against prostitute purses.
00:56:09This is the same man,
00:56:12Hobart,
00:56:12and the same man,
00:56:14Bruce,
00:56:14one time Hobart saying,
00:56:16you're going to be a prophet
00:56:16to the nations,
00:56:17the next time,
00:56:19kicking him out of his church
00:56:20because now Bruce
00:56:21disagrees with Hobart.
00:56:23What are we going to make
00:56:24of this contradiction?
00:56:26And this is where
00:56:27it fascinates me.
00:56:28The psychology behind
00:56:29this fascinates me.
00:56:31Not all cult leaders
00:56:32start out bad,
00:56:34but they have
00:56:35personality disorders
00:56:36that are crippling
00:56:37and disabling.
00:56:39And in essence,
00:56:41from the beginning stages
00:56:43of the formation
00:56:43of a cult leader,
00:56:44you should actually
00:56:45feel sorry for them.
00:56:46They can't help
00:56:47what happens to them.
00:56:49Towards the end,
00:56:49so many bad things happen
00:56:51because they become
00:56:51so destructive
00:56:52that that element
00:56:55of feeling sorry for them
00:56:56is kind of replaced
00:56:56by all the bad things
00:56:57that happen.
00:56:58But in my opinion,
00:57:01Hobart Freeman,
00:57:02he never intended
00:57:02to become a cult leader
00:57:03like he did.
00:57:05He did, unfortunately.
00:57:07He had the same
00:57:08psychological issues
00:57:10that led him
00:57:11down the pathway.
00:57:12But there comes a point
00:57:14when the walls
00:57:15are closing in,
00:57:17and you can watch this
00:57:18from cult leader
00:57:19to cult leader
00:57:19to cult leader
00:57:20from Jim Jones
00:57:21to Branham
00:57:21to all the way
00:57:22back in time
00:57:23through history.
00:57:24Some of the ancient ones
00:57:25you can find
00:57:26the same thing.
00:57:27Whenever the outside
00:57:28pressure comes,
00:57:29because one of the
00:57:30attributes of most
00:57:32cult leaders
00:57:33is this narcissistic
00:57:34personality disorder.
00:57:35They want to control
00:57:36everything,
00:57:37and it is actually
00:57:39devastating to them
00:57:40psychologically,
00:57:41and they'll become
00:57:42physically ill
00:57:43if they can't control
00:57:44everything.
00:57:45So there comes a point
00:57:46in time
00:57:47in which they
00:57:48are purposefully
00:57:49deceptive
00:57:50for the sole
00:57:52reason
00:57:53of satisfying
00:57:55that hunger
00:57:55to control.
00:57:57So they will
00:57:57issue prophecies.
00:57:59They'll speak
00:58:00statements that
00:58:01they say come
00:58:01from God
00:58:02and did not
00:58:02come from God.
00:58:04They literally
00:58:05can't help it.
00:58:06You still actually
00:58:07should feel sorry
00:58:07for them.
00:58:08They can't help
00:58:08that they're doing
00:58:09this,
00:58:10but it's because
00:58:10the disease
00:58:11in their,
00:58:12it's not a disease,
00:58:13but it can be
00:58:14viewed like a disease.
00:58:15The thing in their
00:58:15head that is causing
00:58:16them to do it
00:58:17has now gone
00:58:18to a level
00:58:19of crisis
00:58:21that is so far
00:58:23beyond help.
00:58:24They can't help
00:58:25what they're doing.
00:58:26And so,
00:58:27in my opinion,
00:58:28whenever he's doing
00:58:28this,
00:58:29it's for the sole
00:58:29purpose of
00:58:30controlling Bruce,
00:58:31but also,
00:58:32if you read
00:58:33through the rest
00:58:33of this thing
00:58:34that is called
00:58:35a sermon,
00:58:36it's also
00:58:37retribution
00:58:37against any
00:58:38person who
00:58:39might think
00:58:40otherwise.
00:58:41So he's,
00:58:41in one breath,
00:58:43he's issuing
00:58:44a fake prophecy
00:58:45to Bruce
00:58:46to control him.
00:58:48In the other
00:58:48breath,
00:58:49he's,
00:58:49don't question
00:58:50my authority
00:58:51of giving this
00:58:51to Bruce.
00:58:52Otherwise,
00:58:53you're not of God.
00:58:54And put the fear
00:58:55of God in them
00:58:56or the fear
00:58:57of whatever this
00:58:57is in them.
00:58:58all of it
00:58:59is because
00:59:00Hobart Freeman
00:59:01has developed,
00:59:02he's progressed
00:59:03in his psychological
00:59:04disorder to the
00:59:05state of not
00:59:07being able to
00:59:07control himself.
00:59:08Yeah,
00:59:09yeah,
00:59:09he was definitely,
00:59:10something was
00:59:11seriously wrong
00:59:12with him
00:59:12mentally,
00:59:14intellectually,
00:59:15by the end
00:59:15of his life.
00:59:16And,
00:59:17you know,
00:59:17I've been
00:59:17criticized,
00:59:18and it's
00:59:19okay,
00:59:20I don't think
00:59:21it's valid,
00:59:22but I've been
00:59:22criticized for
00:59:23all that I
00:59:24have done
00:59:24with you,
00:59:25John,
00:59:26for the last
00:59:26year and a
00:59:27half,
00:59:2750-something
00:59:28podcast,
00:59:29because people
00:59:30will say,
00:59:30well,
00:59:30you know,
00:59:30you weren't
00:59:31there,
00:59:31you don't
00:59:31know anything,
00:59:32you're an
00:59:32outsider.
00:59:34And there's
00:59:35truth to that,
00:59:36not to the
00:59:37claim I don't
00:59:38know anything,
00:59:39but to the
00:59:40claim that I'm
00:59:40an outsider,
00:59:41yes,
00:59:41there's definitely
00:59:42truth to that.
00:59:43But,
00:59:43you know,
00:59:44I was an
00:59:44outsider,
00:59:45I've always
00:59:45felt with an
00:59:46inside look
00:59:47and view
00:59:48into everything.
00:59:49But that
00:59:50criticism of
00:59:51me,
00:59:51I wish people
00:59:52would just
00:59:52pause and
00:59:53think about
00:59:54this.
00:59:56This
00:59:57prophecy to
00:59:58Bruce,
00:59:59which I've
00:59:59had in my
01:00:00back pocket
01:00:01for 50
01:00:02years,
01:00:03I even
01:00:03mentioned,
01:00:05alluded to it
01:00:06on podcasts
01:00:07months ago,
01:00:07I said,
01:00:08I have
01:00:08something that
01:00:09probably no
01:00:10one knows,
01:00:11and it's not
01:00:12that they
01:00:12shouldn't know
01:00:13it is publicly
01:00:14available.
01:00:15Some people
01:00:15were sitting
01:00:17in the barn
01:00:18the night Hobart,
01:00:19I wasn't
01:00:19there,
01:00:20they were
01:00:20sitting there,
01:00:21they know
01:00:21this prophecy
01:00:22was given.
01:00:23All the
01:00:23other ministers,
01:00:25all of the
01:00:25other word
01:00:26ministers,
01:00:26they had
01:00:27access to
01:00:28this same
01:00:28tape that
01:00:29I've had
01:00:29all of
01:00:30these years.
01:00:31Why didn't
01:00:31they know
01:00:32that?
01:00:32Why was
01:00:33this never
01:00:33addressed from
01:00:34the pulpit?
01:00:35Why didn't
01:00:35Hobart deal
01:00:36with it?
01:00:36Why didn't
01:00:37some of the
01:00:37other ministers
01:00:38say,
01:00:39now wait a
01:00:39minute,
01:00:39Hobart,
01:00:40now here
01:00:41in this
01:00:42exhortations
01:00:43from Exodus
01:00:44tape message,
01:00:45you're going
01:00:46to kick
01:00:46Bruce out,
01:00:47you're going
01:00:47to prophesy
01:00:48against him,
01:00:49what are we
01:00:49going to do
01:00:50with your
01:00:51prophecy to
01:00:52him 11
01:00:52years earlier
01:00:53in 1973
01:00:54when you
01:00:55called him
01:00:56into the
01:00:56ministry as
01:00:57a prophet,
01:00:58where you
01:00:59said that the
01:00:59mantle of a
01:01:00prophet now
01:01:01rests upon
01:01:01him.
01:01:02What are we
01:01:03going to do
01:01:03with this
01:01:03now Hobart?
01:01:04What are we
01:01:04going to do
01:01:05with this
01:01:05contradiction?
01:01:06I always
01:01:06wondered that.
01:01:07So here
01:01:08sometimes
01:01:09maybe,
01:01:09maybe,
01:01:10where it
01:01:11is to
01:01:12my benefit
01:01:12that I
01:01:13was not
01:01:14caught up,
01:01:15I was not
01:01:15a minister
01:01:16at Faith
01:01:16Assembly.
01:01:17I was
01:01:17definitely
01:01:17a minister
01:01:18and definitely
01:01:19a minister
01:01:19that followed
01:01:20Freemanism in
01:01:22the early
01:01:22years of
01:01:23my life,
01:01:24but I
01:01:25wasn't a
01:01:25part of
01:01:26the group
01:01:26and the
01:01:27crowd there.
01:01:28And the
01:01:28group,
01:01:29for some
01:01:30reason to
01:01:30this day,
01:01:31still doesn't
01:01:32like me.
01:01:33And I
01:01:34don't know
01:01:34why,
01:01:35because they
01:01:36don't hold
01:01:36to any
01:01:37of Hobart's
01:01:38stuff.
01:01:38I don't
01:01:39hold to
01:01:39it.
01:01:39We should
01:01:40be friends
01:01:40now.
01:01:42They still
01:01:42don't like
01:01:43me.
01:01:44And I've
01:01:45never been
01:01:45able to
01:01:46get to
01:01:46the bottom
01:01:46of that.
01:01:47And I
01:01:47have tried
01:01:47to reach
01:01:48out to
01:01:49them.
01:01:50But why
01:01:51wasn't
01:01:51this glaring
01:01:53inconsistency
01:01:54with Hobart
01:01:55kicking Bruce
01:01:56out of the
01:01:56church,
01:01:57saying your
01:01:58lampstand is
01:01:58going to be
01:01:59removed if
01:02:00you don't
01:02:01repent of
01:02:02your ways,
01:02:03you know,
01:02:03and get back
01:02:04into submission
01:02:06to me as
01:02:07God's only
01:02:09valid,
01:02:10reliable,
01:02:11end-time
01:02:12minister and
01:02:13messenger.
01:02:15There's a
01:02:16huge inconsistency
01:02:17here.
01:02:18And look,
01:02:19this type of
01:02:20stuff,
01:02:21John,
01:02:21these personal
01:02:22prophecies,
01:02:23they are,
01:02:25again,
01:02:25rampant today
01:02:26in this
01:02:27prophetic circle.
01:02:28And they
01:02:29literally shipwreck
01:02:30people's lives.
01:02:32They're dangerous.
01:02:34You've got a
01:02:34minister up there,
01:02:36under the
01:02:37anointing,
01:02:38telling you
01:02:39things about
01:02:40your future.
01:02:42And that
01:02:43has a
01:02:43powerful influence
01:02:45on your
01:02:45life.
01:02:46Do you
01:02:46realize the
01:02:47people that
01:02:47were sitting
01:02:48at the
01:02:48glory barn
01:02:49that night,
01:02:50that was an
01:02:51evening service,
01:02:52who didn't
01:02:53get a word,
01:02:55but whom you
01:02:55could imagine
01:02:56were sitting
01:02:58on the edge
01:02:58of their
01:02:59seat,
01:03:00hoping that
01:03:01he will have
01:03:02a word for
01:03:03me.
01:03:03people need
01:03:04to go
01:03:04listen to
01:03:05the whole
01:03:06entire
01:03:06message.
01:03:08Or it's
01:03:08not a
01:03:08message,
01:03:08it's just
01:03:09him ministering
01:03:10by the
01:03:10Spirit.
01:03:11He talks
01:03:11about a
01:03:12sister
01:03:12Galloway
01:03:13that I
01:03:14don't know.
01:03:15I want
01:03:15to mention
01:03:15her name
01:03:16because I'm
01:03:16sure there's
01:03:17someone out
01:03:18there in
01:03:18YouTube land
01:03:19who will
01:03:20know who
01:03:20sister
01:03:21Galloway
01:03:21was.
01:03:22He said,
01:03:23sister
01:03:23Galloway,
01:03:24the Lord
01:03:24has a
01:03:25word for
01:03:25you.
01:03:26If you
01:03:26want it,
01:03:27come up
01:03:27here.
01:03:28It's
01:03:28this personal
01:03:29prophecy and
01:03:30prediction that
01:03:30he's giving
01:03:31to people.
01:03:32He has
01:03:33a word of
01:03:34knowledge,
01:03:34John,
01:03:35for a
01:03:35healing where
01:03:37he said it's
01:03:38a stomach
01:03:38condition.
01:03:39We've talked
01:03:40about this
01:03:40before.
01:03:41I have a
01:03:42stomach
01:03:42condition right
01:03:43this moment
01:03:44as we're
01:03:44talking right
01:03:45now.
01:03:45My stomach
01:03:46hurts a
01:03:46little bit.
01:03:46It's probably
01:03:47because I
01:03:47need to go
01:03:48eat breakfast.
01:03:49But a
01:03:49stomach
01:03:50condition.
01:03:51Eight out
01:03:51of ten
01:03:52people have
01:03:52a stomach
01:03:53condition.
01:03:53Come on,
01:03:54give me a
01:03:54break.
01:03:55In the
01:03:56New Testament,
01:03:56it's always
01:03:57very specific.
01:03:58But it's
01:03:59just a
01:03:59stomach
01:03:59condition.
01:04:00And so
01:04:01he says
01:04:02with that
01:04:03stomach
01:04:03condition,
01:04:04he said it
01:04:05only works
01:04:06if you step
01:04:07out and
01:04:08claim it
01:04:08by faith.
01:04:09So it's
01:04:09putting all
01:04:10the burden
01:04:11and pressure
01:04:11on the
01:04:12person.
01:04:12That's not
01:04:13how it
01:04:13worked in
01:04:14the New
01:04:15Testament.
01:04:15Jesus just
01:04:16healed everyone
01:04:17that came
01:04:18to him.
01:04:19Probably
01:04:19unbelievers
01:04:20and believers
01:04:21mixed together.
01:04:22He didn't
01:04:22say now you
01:04:24have to be
01:04:24right in your
01:04:25life and
01:04:26exercise faith
01:04:27before this
01:04:27will work.
01:04:28And what's
01:04:28so interesting
01:04:29on this
01:04:30stomach
01:04:30condition
01:04:31word of
01:04:32knowledge,
01:04:33a woman
01:04:33finally
01:04:34timidly
01:04:35says something
01:04:36like,
01:04:36I'll claim
01:04:37that for
01:04:38my stomach
01:04:38condition.
01:04:39And Hobart
01:04:40said,
01:04:41I think this
01:04:42is more or
01:04:42less a quote.
01:04:43I tried to
01:04:43write it down.
01:04:45Well,
01:04:45it was a
01:04:46woman.
01:04:47Did I say
01:04:47that?
01:04:48If I didn't,
01:04:49then that just
01:04:49confirmed it to
01:04:50me.
01:04:51He waited
01:04:52till a woman
01:04:53said it was
01:04:54her before he
01:04:55said,
01:04:55well,
01:04:55God showed
01:04:56me that it
01:04:56was a
01:04:57woman.
01:04:57No,
01:04:57no,
01:04:58no,
01:04:58no.
01:04:58You have
01:04:59to tell
01:04:59us the
01:04:59names,
01:05:00addresses,
01:05:01everything in
01:05:01advance.
01:05:03You know,
01:05:03you can't be
01:05:04a magician.
01:05:05You have to
01:05:05tell us all
01:05:06of that in
01:05:06advance.
01:05:07And then
01:05:08when it's
01:05:08fulfilled,
01:05:09then we will
01:05:09know you're
01:05:10God's prophet
01:05:11and God sent
01:05:11you.
01:05:12When I hear
01:05:13stuff like
01:05:13that,
01:05:14I'm sorry,
01:05:15but it's
01:05:15very disturbing
01:05:16to me.
01:05:17I have no
01:05:18respect for it
01:05:18at all.
01:05:19He waited
01:05:20for a woman
01:05:21to claim that
01:05:22word of
01:05:23knowledge healing
01:05:23for her
01:05:24before he
01:05:24said,
01:05:25oh yeah,
01:05:26I meant to
01:05:26say it
01:05:26was a
01:05:27woman.
01:05:27How convenient
01:05:28that it was
01:05:30a woman and
01:05:30you thought it
01:05:31was a woman,
01:05:32but you don't
01:05:33tell us until
01:05:33a woman comes
01:05:34up.
01:05:36I just hope
01:05:37people will,
01:05:38and there are
01:05:39people still
01:05:40following Hobart
01:05:41Freeman's
01:05:41ministry.
01:05:42This is a
01:05:43serious problem
01:05:44and this
01:05:46wasn't the
01:05:47only case.
01:05:47This is just
01:05:48the most
01:05:49explosive case
01:05:51in Dr.
01:05:51Freeman's
01:05:52ministry
01:05:52that he
01:05:54had a
01:05:55word of
01:05:56such
01:05:56significance
01:05:57to such
01:05:58an important
01:05:59person
01:05:59calling him
01:06:01into the
01:06:02ministry
01:06:02as a
01:06:03prophet
01:06:04and no
01:06:05pastor has
01:06:06the authority
01:06:07to do
01:06:07anything like
01:06:08that and
01:06:09it didn't
01:06:10come to
01:06:10pass.
01:06:11I'd like to
01:06:11read this
01:06:12verse in
01:06:12conclusion if
01:06:13I can,
01:06:14John,
01:06:14from
01:06:15Deuteronomy
01:06:1718 and
01:06:18verse 22.
01:06:19When a
01:06:20prophet,
01:06:21which Hobart
01:06:22claimed to
01:06:23be more or
01:06:24less,
01:06:24speaketh in
01:06:25the name of
01:06:26the Lord,
01:06:27that's when
01:06:27you say,
01:06:28thus saith the
01:06:29Lord,
01:06:30if the thing
01:06:31follow not
01:06:32nor come to
01:06:34pass,
01:06:35that is the
01:06:36thing which
01:06:36the Lord
01:06:37hath not
01:06:37spoken,
01:06:38but that
01:06:39prophet had
01:06:40spoken it
01:06:41presumptuously,
01:06:43thou shalt
01:06:44not be
01:06:44afraid of
01:06:45him.
01:06:46So there
01:06:47we go.
01:06:48That's the
01:06:48biblical
01:06:48mandate and
01:06:49requirement,
01:06:51and here
01:06:51was the
01:06:52sequence of
01:06:52events.
01:06:53Hobart
01:06:53gives a
01:06:53prophecy.
01:06:54Prophecy
01:06:55doesn't
01:06:55come to
01:06:56pass.
01:06:57The
01:06:58conclusion
01:06:59is that's
01:06:59a false
01:07:00prophecy.
01:07:01Hobart
01:07:01just
01:07:02prophesied
01:07:02it out
01:07:02of his
01:07:03own
01:07:03heart.
01:07:04Very
01:07:04unfortunate
01:07:05how
01:07:06people's
01:07:06lives
01:07:07have been
01:07:07controlled,
01:07:09manipulated,
01:07:10and
01:07:10eventually
01:07:11then
01:07:11shipwrecked
01:07:12by
01:07:13ministers
01:07:14going around
01:07:15giving
01:07:15personal
01:07:16prophecies
01:07:16like this.
01:07:17And the
01:07:18favorite
01:07:18verse that
01:07:19I go
01:07:19back to
01:07:20always
01:07:20whenever
01:07:21I'm
01:07:21looking
01:07:21at
01:07:21this
01:07:22works
01:07:23righteous
01:07:23faith
01:07:24that
01:07:24these
01:07:24guys
01:07:25were
01:07:25pushing.
01:07:26If you
01:07:27look at
01:07:27Colossians 2,
01:07:29I think it
01:07:29is,
01:07:29let no one
01:07:30disqualify you,
01:07:31insisting on
01:07:32asceticism,
01:07:33which is,
01:07:34that means a
01:07:35wide array of
01:07:36things,
01:07:36but basically
01:07:37asceticism is
01:07:38forbidding yourself
01:07:39to do the
01:07:40things that
01:07:40other people
01:07:41do for the
01:07:42sake of a
01:07:42holy end.
01:07:43worship of
01:07:44angels,
01:07:44going on in
01:07:45detail about
01:07:46visions,
01:07:46but this is
01:07:47the key,
01:07:47puffed up
01:07:48without reason
01:07:49by his own
01:07:50sensuous mind.
01:07:52And you
01:07:52look at all
01:07:52of these cult
01:07:53leaders,
01:07:53that's what
01:07:54they are.
01:07:54They're all
01:07:54puffed up in
01:07:55their own
01:07:55head.
01:07:56And it's
01:07:57sad to see
01:07:58people following
01:07:59it, but
01:07:59hopefully we've
01:08:00said something
01:08:00that will help
01:08:01people to
01:08:02not.
01:08:02So thank
01:08:03you for
01:08:03doing this.
01:08:04Yeah,
01:08:04thanks for
01:08:05having me,
01:08:05John.
01:08:06Well,
01:08:06if you've
01:08:06enjoyed our
01:08:06show and
01:08:07you want
01:08:07more information,
01:08:08you can
01:08:08check us
01:08:08out on
01:08:08the web.
01:08:09You can
01:08:09find us
01:08:10www.william-branham.org
01:08:11For more
01:08:12about the
01:08:12dark side of
01:08:13the new
01:08:13apostolic
01:08:14reformation,
01:08:15you can
01:08:15read Weaponized
01:08:15Religion,
01:08:16From Christian
01:08:17Identity to
01:08:18the NAR,
01:08:19available on
01:08:19Amazon,
01:08:20Kindle,
01:08:21and Audible.
01:08:40www.illiam-branham.org
01:09:10www.illiam-branham.org
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