- 2 days ago
John and Chino discuss Hobart Freeman’s controversial teaching on divine healing, particularly the delay between prayer and healing, a doctrine supported by anecdotal stories and questionable interpretations of scripture. They examine Freeman’s use of Mark 11:24 and critique the influence of exaggerated revivalist figures such as Franklin Hall, Smith Wigglesworth, and Jack Coe. The conversation explores how Freeman built his theology on unverifiable claims and how this affected his followers—many of whom were discouraged from seeking medical help, resulting in preventable suffering or death. They also contrast biblical examples of healing, which were instant or near-instant, with the prolonged, unfulfilled expectations created by Freeman’s “manifestation” doctrine.
Throughout the discussion, Chino recounts his personal experience with fasting and provides a physiological explanation for altered perceptions during extended fasts, offering a grounded critique of revivalist myths. John and Chino reflect on how easily sensational stories can be accepted when cloaked in religious authority and discuss the psychological manipulation that accompanies uncritical belief. They emphasize the urgent need for critical thinking and doctrinal accountability, especially when lives are at stake. The episode concludes with a reflection on how this movement’s legacy continues through modern charismatic leaders who still draw inspiration from these self-proclaimed “God’s generals.”
Event invitation:
https://william-branham.org/wmb/share/event_invitation.jpeg
00:00 Introduction
03:04 Hobart Freeman’s emphasis on delayed healing
06:21 Mark 11:24 and the “name it, claim it” approach
10:01 Fasting legends and their scientific implausibility
14:09 Franklin Hall, Branham, and the birth of Latter Rain
18:27 Freeman’s sermons and stories rooted in unverified claims
22:45 The hollow log tale and the suspension of critical thinking
25:19 Wigglesworth, demons, and fantastical anecdotes
27:54 Violent healing: punching and slapping in the name of faith
31:37 “Manifestation” as cult language to cover failure
36:59 Delayed healing examples reinterpreted to justify failure
41:22 The psychological and spiritual manipulation of delay
46:39 Healing ministries compared to snake oil scams
50:01 The real-world harm of Freeman’s manifestation doctrine
54:00 Life-threatening cases and the cost of waiting
57:45 Manifesting as a coping tool for spiritual dissonance
59:42 The fear of abandoning false beliefs
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
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Throughout the discussion, Chino recounts his personal experience with fasting and provides a physiological explanation for altered perceptions during extended fasts, offering a grounded critique of revivalist myths. John and Chino reflect on how easily sensational stories can be accepted when cloaked in religious authority and discuss the psychological manipulation that accompanies uncritical belief. They emphasize the urgent need for critical thinking and doctrinal accountability, especially when lives are at stake. The episode concludes with a reflection on how this movement’s legacy continues through modern charismatic leaders who still draw inspiration from these self-proclaimed “God’s generals.”
Event invitation:
https://william-branham.org/wmb/share/event_invitation.jpeg
00:00 Introduction
03:04 Hobart Freeman’s emphasis on delayed healing
06:21 Mark 11:24 and the “name it, claim it” approach
10:01 Fasting legends and their scientific implausibility
14:09 Franklin Hall, Branham, and the birth of Latter Rain
18:27 Freeman’s sermons and stories rooted in unverified claims
22:45 The hollow log tale and the suspension of critical thinking
25:19 Wigglesworth, demons, and fantastical anecdotes
27:54 Violent healing: punching and slapping in the name of faith
31:37 “Manifestation” as cult language to cover failure
36:59 Delayed healing examples reinterpreted to justify failure
41:22 The psychological and spiritual manipulation of delay
46:39 Healing ministries compared to snake oil scams
50:01 The real-world harm of Freeman’s manifestation doctrine
54:00 Life-threatening cases and the cost of waiting
57:45 Manifesting as a coping tool for spiritual dissonance
59:42 The fear of abandoning false beliefs
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00:00Transcription by CastingWords
00:00:30Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.
00:00:36I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research at william-branham.org.
00:00:43And with me I have my co-host, minister, and friend, Cheno Ross,
00:00:47pastor and the voice of The Understanding Scripture and Truth by Cheno D. Ross YouTube channel.
00:00:53Cheno, it's good to be back and to prepare for talking about all things Hobart Freeman.
00:00:58And I've been thinking through this after our last podcast, and I was thinking it would be really good
00:01:03if you and I could get in the spirit more and maybe for the next 40 days if you and I could fast.
00:01:10That did come up as a topic from our last podcast.
00:01:16Before I get into that, John, let me just say that the end of this week we have our meet and greet,
00:01:23August 2nd, scheduled for the Wyndham Hotel in Warsaw, Indiana for all the people that want to attend.
00:01:31And so I just want to, this is the last opportunity before we arrive at that event to invite everyone.
00:01:40Please come, bring friends, bring relatives, bring opponents or foes if you want to.
00:01:47I don't really care, and I don't think people will want to come that aren't in agreement.
00:01:52But I know we've got a lot of people coming, a lot of people from out of state or traveling.
00:01:58I'll be there staying Friday night and Saturday night.
00:02:01So we'll have our formal, if you could even call it that, meet and greet on Saturday morning beginning at 10 a.m.
00:02:09And it will last however long people want it to.
00:02:12We have the meeting rooms reserved for that morning and all that afternoon.
00:02:17But I'll be there the day before and the day after.
00:02:21So, I mean, we have plenty of time for theological discussions and debates and questions and however people want to go.
00:02:29So that will be this Saturday.
00:02:32Looking forward to seeing and meeting people.
00:02:35And as you know, John, with the way you've handled these podcasts, most of these people you've never laid eyes on.
00:02:43You don't, you get an email from them, but you never get to see them.
00:02:47You may talk on the phone, but you never meet in person.
00:02:50So I'm looking forward to this.
00:02:53Most of these people, I don't know what they look like.
00:02:56They know what I look like, but I couldn't pick them out in a crowd of two.
00:03:01That's for sure.
00:03:02But we're looking forward to it this weekend.
00:03:05So I'm sure people will not remember, John.
00:03:07But the last time in our podcast, we were talking about one of the last parameters for divine healing that I want to discuss that it was real critical and played an important part in Dr. Freeman's ministry.
00:03:20And that is the timing of the healing once you have prayed.
00:03:24And we had played a clip from a 1974 message of Hobart's that he taught at the Glory Barn entitled Stepping Stones to Answer Prayer.
00:03:36And the reason I played that clip is because it makes reference to a particular Bible verse, which became kind of the hallmark verse in Hobart's ministry.
00:03:47And just to review the background of that clip, Hobart said there was a local minister.
00:03:53So that's someone, a minister in a church somewhere there in northern Indiana around the time Hobart was giving this in the early 1970s, who was struggling with doubt in his life and trying to figure out why can't I believe the promises of God?
00:04:10Why am I having so many struggles with this?
00:04:13And so he related this story to Hobart and then Hobart tells it on the tape.
00:04:20So this minister went on a 40-day fast.
00:04:23We'll return to that subject here in just a minute.
00:04:27But at the end of the 40-day fast, this man told Hobart, I heard the audible voice of God.
00:04:35Now, let me say, Hobart has many stories on many messages where he relays someone else's experience of having heard the audible voice of God.
00:04:48Now, I can't remember a time Hobart himself personally claimed to have ever heard the voice of God, but this man said that he did.
00:04:59And so Hobart said, you know, I want to know, what did God say?
00:05:03Man said, I heard the voice of God booming down out of heaven into my bedroom on the 40th day of my fast.
00:05:12And Hobart said, well, what did he say?
00:05:14What did he say?
00:05:16And the minister said, he quoted to me Mark 11, 22 to 24.
00:05:23Have faith in God and you know the rest of the passage.
00:05:26And in this citation from Stepping Stones to Answered Prayer that we played last time, Hobart's message in 1974, Hobart said that's become the central verse or that is the central verse in my ministry.
00:05:41Mark 11, 24, that when you pray, believe that you have received and you shall have it.
00:05:49And he's always telling everyone we've all been to school.
00:05:52We can see several verb tenses there.
00:05:56The teaching is you do your believing when you pray and then you have received at that moment.
00:06:04And when you might actually see it happen in your life is all in God's hands.
00:06:10And so he says in that clip, I've gotten new cars off that verse.
00:06:15I've gotten a trip to Israel.
00:06:17You can get anything off of Mark 11, 24.
00:06:20So when I hear a story like that, when I'm 17 years old, I just my jaw hits the floor and I go, wow, I've never heard of such in my Presbyterian church.
00:06:35And so I believe it because who doesn't want to believe a story like that?
00:06:39When a few years go by, you start analyzing each part of that story and you're going, wait a minute, how and when and why and where would God be quoting the Bible to anybody when we all own a copy of the Bible?
00:06:54That just does not seem to be scriptural at all for you to have gone on this fast.
00:07:02And then God is going to quote to you, Mark 11, 22 to 24, when you already own a Bible.
00:07:09And then when Hobart says that you can get anything you want on this verse, he said, I've gotten new cars.
00:07:16I got a trip to Israel.
00:07:17Well, then it goes back to some of our earlier discussions, Sean, on proper hermeneutics.
00:07:25What did the original disciples, the apostles, the hearers of that, how did they interpret that?
00:07:34What did it mean to them?
00:07:36And then you go and look in the book of Acts, you look at their experience, and none of them are claiming a faster camel or a bigger wagon with nice wheels and rims on it or something.
00:07:51They didn't see that verse in any materialistic sense.
00:07:55Paul was on his way to Rome and his ship was wrecked.
00:07:59I don't see him naming and claiming anything like, God, why not just transport me from the Mediterranean coast in Israel all the way to Rome, and we can skip all of this sailing, and we can skip all the trauma.
00:08:13Or why not just rebuke the storm and say, cease, be calm, and wind, be still.
00:08:19Paul never did any of that.
00:08:21So, again, we're always putting ourselves back in the position of, are we going to believe Paul's teaching and follow Paul's experience, and are we going to follow the early apostles, their understanding of Mark 11, 22 to 24?
00:08:40They never cursed a fig tree.
00:08:41They never tried to remove a mountain, and they never tried to receive any material items.
00:08:46That was the last thing in their mind, material items, when they were busy preaching and spreading the gospel.
00:08:54So, those issues of that story would cause a problem to me.
00:09:00And then back to what I said we would return to, this man went on a 40-day fast.
00:09:08You know, I'm not the man.
00:09:09I wasn't there, but I'm just going to have to say I don't believe that story.
00:09:14I believe either Hobart exaggerated it or the man exaggerated it or both.
00:09:22I just don't believe that he fasted for 40 days and for 40 nights.
00:09:27And let me say, there are biblical fasts, Moses and Jesus are two that come to mind, that I do believe happened for 40 days because they're in the Bible.
00:09:35But Hobart was very prone for telling a lot of stories about people who went on extended fasts.
00:09:44One we may need to discuss in detail later is a 49-day fast that someone went on just on behalf of Dr. Freeman himself.
00:09:55That's another story maybe for another.
00:09:57That is a seven-week fast.
00:09:59But I know, John, off the record after we finished our episode last time, you said, oh, when you talked about fasting, I should have mentioned Franklin Hall because Franklin Hall was one of the pioneers of this whole Pentecostal healing revival movement that was so well known for his teaching on fasting.
00:10:23My grandfather used to tell me that as a joke, he would go up to people in his church and after service, they're talking and they're all in the spirit after the sermon.
00:10:37And he would say, come on, brother, this was really good.
00:10:39Let's pray and fast together.
00:10:41And the look on their face, because nobody wanted to do it, is the funny thing.
00:10:45They all wanted to go after service and get their favorite dinner.
00:10:48So, it's not something that everybody does.
00:10:52However, I've mentioned on here before, diabetes runs in my family.
00:10:56I studied the science of fasting for probably two years before I tried it.
00:11:02You can find all sorts of studies on the benefits of fasting and what it does to your body.
00:11:07Because your body, your belly is like a camel's hump.
00:11:11If you wait long enough and you get into the fasting mode, your body will consume all of that.
00:11:16But what's in there, all of the fat and the toxins and all of the things that your body stores up that not all of it is really good for you, all of that goes through your system.
00:11:27And my wife can tell you, the toxins that are in there make your breath really, really foul once you get into that state.
00:11:35And as your metabolism is going through this, well, the longer you go, your body gets into a state where it's not quite like a near-death experience.
00:11:46But your body is tricked into thinking that it is starving to death.
00:11:50That's part of human life and human anatomy.
00:11:53So, your body starts to react as though you're dying.
00:11:57And if you have some sort of a chemical change in your brain, very, very odd things can happen, which I won't go into details about this.
00:12:07If you fast, you'll understand what I'm saying.
00:12:10Weird things happen.
00:12:11And especially if you've not done it for many, many years and you do have all of those toxins, as those go through your system, the chemical change in your brain does weird things.
00:12:22Now, I know that there is a Bible precedent for fasting, and I understand all the Scripture passages of this.
00:12:30But you have to remember, this was during a completely different era where, you know, many people didn't eat three times a day, three square meals like we do, and their body was used and accustomed to fasting.
00:12:42And they were much skinnier than we are today.
00:12:45So, what they had is much different than what we have.
00:12:49But when you do this, the fact that, you know, I could say, yes, God spoke to me through a pink elephant during one of these things, and that didn't happen.
00:12:59But if you understand the chemical change that happens in your head when you fast, you might think it's God, but it also could be your brain just doing weird things to you.
00:13:09And that's a fact for anybody that has done it.
00:13:12However, all of this said, if you fast for three days, you're going to understand how ridiculous a 40-day fast is.
00:13:22With all of us porky people, I wish Franklin Hall would come back.
00:13:27People could just fast just to lose some weight.
00:13:30I'm no expert on fasting.
00:13:31I do believe in fasting.
00:13:33I do believe there's a biblical precedent, but I'm with you on the timing of it, John.
00:13:38I've never fasted longer than three days.
00:13:40I've done that on a few occasions.
00:13:42I've done a whole lot of one-day fast.
00:13:45But, you know, people are going to like what we're saying, that we're critical.
00:13:50They say, well, the guy said he went on a 40-day.
00:13:52People have said things their whole life that aren't true, you know, because someone said it doesn't make it true.
00:13:59A 40-day fast, you know, no.
00:14:03I just have to shake my head and say, no, I simply don't believe that the guy did it.
00:14:07The funny part of it is, all of this history that we're talking about, as you mentioned Franklin Hall, it kind of surrounds this.
00:14:14He and William Branham would get up before their revivals.
00:14:16I've got an audio clip of this.
00:14:19But he would say, what are we going to begin with, Brother Branham?
00:14:22And William Branham would sheepishly say, oh, money.
00:14:26Yeah, we're going to start with some money.
00:14:27Let's pass the tithe basket.
00:14:29That's how their meetings would start.
00:14:31So they collect all this money.
00:14:32Well, then these people were trying to do what Hall said, and they were trying to fast.
00:14:37And they went nuts.
00:14:39I mean, literally, they went nuts.
00:14:41They started believing things that weren't true, seeing things that weren't there.
00:14:44And that was the premise for what became the Latter Rain Revival.
00:14:48William Branham and Franklin Hall were the catalysts.
00:14:51So you had the fasting.
00:14:53And Branham had this weird—I'm going to get into this at some point in the podcast—Branham had this weird connection to the spiritualist camps.
00:15:01And he was teaching a spiritualist version of Christianity that he learned from his mentors.
00:15:06Those two combined created Latter Rain.
00:15:08And if you fast and get the people where they're just—their brain's shutting off, they're not thinking, they accept it willingly.
00:15:16You know, I'm going to—I've got a few excerpts from Franklin Hall, even though this is not about—this is not a podcast about fasting.
00:15:23Or maybe it is.
00:15:24Maybe that's what it's turning into.
00:15:26But he just had the weirdest ideas about fasting.
00:15:31So his wife, Sister Hall, he said that if you would fast, you would not be sick.
00:15:38There were three things you could accomplish.
00:15:40You could eliminate sickness.
00:15:42You could eliminate tiredness.
00:15:45And you could eliminate human body odor.
00:15:47Those are the three things that would happen through fasting.
00:15:51So here is Franklin Hall.
00:15:53And he had, I guess, a church down in Phoenix, Arizona.
00:15:57Sister Hall has had no sickness—that's his wife—in eight years.
00:16:01Eighteen years.
00:16:03Yeah, right.
00:16:04It reminds me of Hagen saying he hadn't had a headache in 50 years.
00:16:08It just depends on how you define a headache, I guess.
00:16:11She has had no tiredness in 15 years.
00:16:16How about that?
00:16:16You hadn't even been tired in 15 years.
00:16:20I guess it depends on how you define tiredness.
00:16:23Then they have a testimony from a sister, Thelma Moore, from San Francisco.
00:16:29And here's her testimony.
00:16:32She said, I wore the same hose for six months without washing them.
00:16:37And they never did get stiff.
00:16:39And they never had any unpleasant odor about them.
00:16:43So, I mean, no deodorant, no food, and no sleep.
00:16:49And this was kind of a gospel he was teaching.
00:16:53He said when his—and this is what he said when you'd come into a meeting.
00:16:57When his disciples would raise their right hand in the meeting, they would say,
00:17:01Hello, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost would descend on them.
00:17:06When they would raise the left hand and say, Hello, Jesus, then they would smell the fragrance
00:17:12of Jesus.
00:17:14Now, take a deep sniff, Hall told an audience in Phoenix.
00:17:18Doesn't that smell good?
00:17:20Have any of you folks got a dog at home?
00:17:23Well, if you've got a dog, you'll have to watch out.
00:17:26Because when you get home, you'll just smell different.
00:17:30Oh, you can take the fragrance with you, and it will go all over the lot.
00:17:35It gets in your home, and it also makes your home bug-proof.
00:17:41It makes you a Holy Ghost exterminator.
00:17:44There's Franklin Hall for you.
00:17:46And it's funny, because if you listen to these guys back in the 40s and 50s, again,
00:17:52they're teaching crowds to fast, and it's a manipulation tool.
00:17:56They will believe whatever comes out of their mouths.
00:17:58But in today's world, many of the things that they were able to convince people of,
00:18:02you would never be convinced of it.
00:18:04So what has happened is the modern leaders have said, This is our heritage.
00:18:08This is where we came from.
00:18:10You look all through the New Apostolic Reformation.
00:18:12They always reference these, quote-unquote, God's generals.
00:18:15If they were to take some of the speeches from these, quote, God's generals and hand them
00:18:19out today, people would run screaming.
00:18:21They'd say, This is nuts.
00:18:23I'm not going to be in this anymore.
00:18:26And, you know, John, that's the thing that's so shocking about Hobart Freeman's ministry.
00:18:32His followers, if they will just take a step back and think about it, Hobart's messages
00:18:37were not Bible teachings.
00:18:38They were stories that he recycled and regurgitated and then supported these stories with, you know,
00:18:48a verse or two taken out of context.
00:18:52And that is what a Hobart Freeman sermon would be.
00:18:55You know, I've heard many where he always will say, you know, turn to such and such passage
00:19:00and he'll read it.
00:19:01And he can literally go for 60 minutes and never refer to that passage again.
00:19:08He's simply telling stories of, as you referenced, and maybe it was, was it Robert Sliarden or
00:19:16somebody who came up with this phrase of God's generals?
00:19:21And that's where I learned even the names of these people, whether it's, you know, Branham or Oral Roberts or
00:19:29Jack Coe or A.A. Allen, Gordon Lindsay, Franklin Hall, Dalwey, you know, all of these people.
00:19:37Hobart just told these stories, but he had read these stories himself from someone's ministry publication.
00:19:46He would tell stories about Guy Bevington.
00:19:51I don't know if you've ever done any study or anything on Bevington, but I think there was a book written called Remarkable Miracles.
00:19:59And you see, whenever they had the Glory Barn, one of the longtime attendees of Faith Assembly was a brother named Hank Platt.
00:20:10Hank Platt actually was, came from the Brethren background, the same as Hobart,
00:20:14and actually was a member of Hobart's little house church in Claypool way back in pre-charismatic days.
00:20:22So Hank Platt opened a bookstore, sat on a concrete slab.
00:20:27As you pulled up to the Glory Barn, it sat right there to the right, and it was called the Upper Room Bookstore.
00:20:33And he just kept it stocked with all of this charismatic literature, this old Pentecostal stuff that Hobart was always referencing.
00:20:45And so Bevington and his book Remarkable Miracles was one Hobart would talk about frequently.
00:20:52But the story that he would tell about Bevington was normally the story about Bevington crawling in a hollow log and staying for 10 days fasting and praying.
00:21:04And you would hear these stories, and I'm telling you, as a new believer, as a young person, you just ate this stuff up because you just thought,
00:21:16man, I never heard any of this in my denominational church, that anyone would be so committed to crawl in a hollow log and stay there for 10 days.
00:21:28Now, why does it have to be a hollow log?
00:21:31And so critical thinking, you know, years later, go, wait, wait, wait, wait a minute.
00:21:35How many hollowed out logs are big enough to hold a man, number one?
00:21:42Number two, who could dare endure the insects and centipedes and spiders and bugs that would be crawling all over you
00:21:58in every orifice of your body as you're living inside that hollow log for 10 days?
00:22:04Nobody ever stood up at Faith Assembly and said, wait a minute, the madness has to stop.
00:22:10Nobody is going to stay inside a hollow log for 10 days.
00:22:14Hobart would tell that story that Bevington would go in the hollow log, stay there for 10 days,
00:22:19and he could just pray heaven and earth together, praying and fasting and living inside a hollow log.
00:22:26Well, I don't believe that ever happened.
00:22:29I don't believe Bevington ever went in a hollow log and stayed for 10 days.
00:22:34Maybe he found a hollowed out stump and sat on it for a while.
00:22:37Maybe he went in a hollowed out tree for an hour and prayed.
00:22:41But living inside a hollow log for 10 days, a guy praying heaven and earth to get, I just don't believe that it happened.
00:22:50Well, and depending on the man's size, which it had to have been fairly small to get in the log in the first place,
00:22:55your body only lasts for three days before you die if you don't have water.
00:23:00So I don't know that it's really that possible.
00:23:04But, you know, people will believe anything, and especially if you tell it to them in the name of religion.
00:23:10They just shut off critical thinking, and it shouldn't be that way.
00:23:13These guys have learned that you can manipulate the masses, and you can tell them anything that you want to prove your point,
00:23:22even if it's pure nonsense.
00:23:24But if you mention the name Jesus when you do it, they'll listen to it and pay attention.
00:23:28And we need more people to just say, wait a minute, I'm thinking about this,
00:23:32and I'm realizing that what you're telling me is complete nonsense.
00:23:35Yeah, you say Jesus, and you bring a Bible verse and tack that on to the end of it.
00:23:42Yeah, I'm all four people standing up and saying no.
00:23:46My wife is not very comfortable going to visiting different churches with me.
00:23:52You probably would not even be comfortable with me, John, because I'm telling you,
00:23:57I try to follow decorum, and I don't want to cause a scene.
00:24:01But I am just afraid that if I was in visiting a church and some minister stood up
00:24:08and started telling a story about a 40-day fast and a hollow log
00:24:11and then taking all these Bible verses out of context, I should just get up and leave.
00:24:17But knowing me, I would probably just raise my hand and say, I object.
00:24:21You know, I object to this nonsense that's going on.
00:24:24I wish we would have people that had the boldness to do that
00:24:27and stop the madness that's happening in these churches.
00:24:31And the biggest name of all of God's generals, quote unquote, was Smith Wigglesworth.
00:24:37You know, the English minister, the second half of the 1800s and early 1900s,
00:24:43Hobart would regale you with stories about Smith Wigglesworth.
00:24:49Stanley Frosham had written a book, The Apostle of Faith,
00:24:53which I'm sure Hank Platt had in the bookstore.
00:24:58And Stanley Frosham became one of the early leaders of that latter rain movement, by the way.
00:25:05Both of these were Assemblies of God guys in England, both Wigglesworth and Frosham.
00:25:10And another book called Ever Increasing Faith was written,
00:25:14telling all of these stories of Smith Wigglesworth.
00:25:17He raised like 16 dead people, but we don't have any verification of any of that.
00:25:23And I can't even remember a message of Hobart's.
00:25:26I even heard it a few weeks ago, but I don't know the title to it.
00:25:31But it was in the very, it was a later message of Hobart.
00:25:34So it's not back in his footloose and fancy free early days.
00:25:39It was much, much later.
00:25:41But Hobart said the very beginning of the message, he said,
00:25:45Hey, I just finished rereading a Smith Wigglesworth book.
00:25:50And it's either Apostle of Faith or Ever Increasing Faith, one of those two.
00:25:55And he said, I had forgotten, but I was reminded of the story that old Smith told.
00:26:01One time he had gone to bed at night and gone to sleep.
00:26:04And all of a sudden he was awakened and he was just awakened because he felt a presence,
00:26:12an evil presence in the room.
00:26:14And he raised himself up in the bed and he looked over in the corner of his bedroom.
00:26:22And he said, Oh, it's you devil.
00:26:26And he just went back to sleep and Hobart's message was that's how Smith handled Satan.
00:26:35He had such authority and power over the enemy that even when Satan appeared visibly in the
00:26:42corner of his bedroom, Smith just brushed him off and said, Oh, it's only you devil.
00:26:47And then just went back to sleep.
00:26:49And, you know, we hear those stories.
00:26:52And again, no, no, I hear a story like that.
00:26:55And I know that never happened.
00:26:58That story never happened.
00:27:02Smith may have had too much to drink the night before or something, but that story never happened.
00:27:08Satan, as he appears in scripture, is not a being that you trifle with.
00:27:14If you read the first couple of chapters of Job, if you look how Michael, the archangel,
00:27:19had to deal with Satan concerning Moses' body and the little epistle of Jude,
00:27:25he's a formidable foe and he does exist.
00:27:29He is real.
00:27:31But Smith's treatment of him is like a cartoon that, Oh, I see the devil like a little imp over
00:27:39in the corner.
00:27:40Oh, it's just you, devil.
00:27:41Well, I'm going back to sleep.
00:27:43And he just goes back to sleep.
00:27:44And the devil, I guess, is so afraid of Smith that he just vanishes after that.
00:27:48These are the types of messages you get, believe it or not, believe it or not, from Hobart
00:27:53Freeman.
00:27:54These are the types of messages you get.
00:27:56You get story after story of the apostles of the Lord or the apostles of the devil, the
00:28:04generals of the devil, whatever you want to call them, that fill the pages of books like
00:28:11the All Things Are Possible.
00:28:14There is William Branham with the halo.
00:28:17I think that's R.W.
00:28:19Schambach.
00:28:20And that's David Terrell, I think, right there praying for somebody.
00:28:25This book will give you the stories of all of these people cast in the best light, I think
00:28:30generally done from press releases in their own ministries.
00:28:34That's what I was raised on early in listening to Dr. Freeman.
00:28:37Later on, he would not refer to these guys as much, but the first 15 years of his ministry
00:28:45to his discredit, he based so much of his teaching on the ministry and stories and experiences
00:28:56of these guys when he should have been spending his time basing his teaching on the Bible and
00:29:04at the same time exposing these guys for what they were.
00:29:07But I know when Hobart left the Southern Baptist Convention and then left the Brethren
00:29:12Church and joined the charismatic movement, you know, these were new stories to him as
00:29:18well.
00:29:19And they just simply swept him off his feet.
00:29:23And he simply, to his discredit, he dropped all critical thinking and he believed every one
00:29:32of these and then what made it, what complicated things for the followers of Dr. Freeman is he
00:29:40did have the tendency to later in life, try to teach a little more correctly and a little
00:29:47more precisely, but he never expunged these old stories and ministers.
00:29:53So there was always this dichotomy in people's minds.
00:29:57I know I had it in mind.
00:29:59You know, you're teaching the Bible and you're teaching you're the one who has the end time
00:30:04truth.
00:30:04And yet you referenced all of these lunatics, all of these literal lunatics, and you reference
00:30:11them in such a positive light.
00:30:13And you've never gone back and corrected any of that.
00:30:15You've never gone back and said, I reject everything about these men and their ministries
00:30:20and messages.
00:30:22Hobart never did that.
00:30:23He tried to hold on to both and it just created, you know, I think it created a lot of tension
00:30:30in people's minds under his ministry.
00:30:34Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern
00:30:39Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign, charismatic and other fringe movements
00:30:45into the new apostolic reformation?
00:30:48You can learn this and more on William Branham Historical Research's website, william-branham.org.
00:30:55On the books page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles
00:31:00Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper, audio, and
00:31:07digital versions of each book.
00:31:09You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those
00:31:14movements.
00:31:15If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute
00:31:21button at the top.
00:31:22And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening
00:31:27to or watching.
00:31:28On behalf of William Branham Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support.
00:31:33You know, you mentioned Smith Wigglesworth, and one of the problems, everything that you just
00:31:38said is completely accurate.
00:31:41One of the problems is that people don't really examine the quote-unquote God's general before
00:31:46they start accepting doctrine.
00:31:48And it becomes like doctrine alphabet soup.
00:31:51I'm going to get this little doctrine from this guy who's a complete nut job.
00:31:54I'm going to get this doctrine from this other guy, and he's clearly filled with the devil,
00:31:59or he's lying to us.
00:32:01They don't care because they don't repeat the ministries as it was presented by whoever
00:32:08is the God's general.
00:32:09But they pick and choose what they want to from them and make a completely new stage act.
00:32:14That's basically what they're doing.
00:32:16Smith Wigglesworth had this physical assault type ministry.
00:32:21I don't know if you're aware of this, but people would go up to him to be healed, and he
00:32:25was allegedly smack him, punch him, kick him.
00:32:28And, you know, you look back on these guys, and there's two thoughts that come to mind.
00:32:33If you're critically thinking, there are two thoughts that come to mind.
00:32:37If you're not critically thinking, oh my gosh, the power of God, this guy just kicked somebody's
00:32:41boot in the side of their face and kicked the devil out of them.
00:32:44But I don't think like this, and neither should any human being think this way.
00:32:49But think about the poor person who's coming to be healed, who's already suffering, in pain.
00:32:55They're coming, some of them in wheelchairs, they go up, and here's this guy that's going
00:33:00to punch them in the face.
00:33:01Well, the guy punching, the guy swinging, how can you do this to a person who's hurting?
00:33:06You're going to inflict more pain on the person sitting there, and I don't see any
00:33:10Bible precedent for punching somebody in the face to punch the devil out.
00:33:14But then you start to read others, other gods generals, like John G. Lake, who had several
00:33:21different people that was working with him to trick others into thinking that he was actually
00:33:25healing people.
00:33:27You can get on the internet, and you can type in critical examination of John Lake, and
00:33:31you'll find all of these examples.
00:33:33He had people who were family members that were healed like 14, 15 different times of the
00:33:38same thing remotely.
00:33:40They would telegram in before his meeting so that it would get there like the next day,
00:33:46and he would say, I prayed for them remotely, and they got healed remotely.
00:33:50And it's the same person doing the tricks.
00:33:53And allegedly, he was doing the same thing to help John Dowie do his stage act.
00:33:59So you've got all these people that are having fakery.
00:34:02Well, I know if a person comes to my healing line and they're suffering in pain, I'm not going
00:34:07to punch him, but if there's somebody who's planted in the meeting who can get up and
00:34:11pretend to be healed after I punch him, I might.
00:34:14If I was a scoundrel, I might.
00:34:17So you have to take all this with a grain of salt and realize that not everything is as
00:34:23it seems.
00:34:24These guys weren't good guys.
00:34:26The doctrine that they were bringing wasn't biblical.
00:34:28And then you really start to question people who build their ministries off of picking and
00:34:35choosing doctrines from these guys that are complete scoundrels.
00:34:39You're exactly right about Smith.
00:34:41He would punch people in the stomach, people who had stomach cancer or some stomach condition.
00:34:46He would hit them so hard that he would knock them down or knock them over or move them back
00:34:52several feet and, you know, his little cute way of defending that when people would say,
00:34:59well, how can you, you know, be so brutal?
00:35:01He said, you have to be brutal against the devil.
00:35:05You know, all of these illnesses were a demon inside them.
00:35:09And so you have to hit the devil hard.
00:35:11But just as you said, John, there's no biblical precedent for that.
00:35:14And Jesus never hit anybody.
00:35:16The apostles never hit anybody.
00:35:18Hobart used to talk about Jack Coe.
00:35:20He would go around and see a big goiter on a lady's neck and he would have them up there
00:35:26and he would slap those goiters off their neck and off their face and off their shoulders.
00:35:31Hobart told of Jack Coe slapping off goiters.
00:35:35Well, that never happened.
00:35:36He never did it.
00:35:38And but here's the problem.
00:35:40The problem for Hobart's followers is it, you know, the blame goes back to Hobart.
00:35:46He told that story.
00:35:48And so people just believed him.
00:35:49He never checked it out.
00:35:51He never doubted it.
00:35:52He never questioned it.
00:35:53He never had any critical thinking of his own.
00:35:56He just believed those things.
00:35:59So what we have been saying in this last podcast, John, is that the healings, you know, if people
00:36:04are going to see a healing, you know, it needs to be after the precedent that we've already
00:36:10seen in scripture.
00:36:12We talked about the types of illnesses.
00:36:14The types of illnesses healed in the Bible were very severe and significant.
00:36:19And what we have been talking about is the timing of the healing.
00:36:25Healings in the Bible happened right away.
00:36:28They just did.
00:36:29They happened right away.
00:36:31But here's the situation.
00:36:33Hobart knew what the Bible taught.
00:36:36Hobart knew that the Bible taught that the healings in the gospels and the book of Acts were
00:36:42instant or they were immediate.
00:36:44But because he didn't want anyone to expect that from him, because he knew it didn't happen
00:36:51in his own life, Hobart began the process of looking long and hard to find exceptions.
00:36:59And he became adept at looking for tracking down delays in healing.
00:37:06So he would talk about Mark 11, 24, when you pray, believe you have received and you shall
00:37:12have it.
00:37:13And then he would say, I prayed for you now, accept your healing by faith and go walk it
00:37:19out.
00:37:20He was famous for saying, if you prayed 10 times for something, you prayed nine times
00:37:25in unbelief.
00:37:26By the way, he got that statement.
00:37:29He exaggerated it.
00:37:30He got that from Smith Wigglesworth.
00:37:32You can find Smith Wigglesworth saying, if you pray twice for something, then you prayed
00:37:39one time in unbelief.
00:37:41Whenever someone came for a prayer from him for the second time, he'd say, didn't I pray
00:37:47for you yesterday?
00:37:48Well, to pray for you a second time would be unbelief.
00:37:51So Hobart got that very idea from Smith Wigglesworth as well.
00:37:55But Hobart looked long and hard for delays because he knew what the Bible taught.
00:38:02All you got to do is read Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John in Acts.
00:38:05And you see when Jesus or the apostles or the early church prayed for people, did they get
00:38:12healed?
00:38:12Yes.
00:38:12When did they get healed?
00:38:13Right then.
00:38:15Either in the snap of a finger or in a very, very short, brief period of time.
00:38:21But because Hobart knew that that had not been his experience and he did not want people to
00:38:28expect that, he didn't want them to expect to see what happened in the Bible happen when
00:38:33he prayed for them, what happened in the Bible to happen in his church services, then, as
00:38:39I say, he looked long and hard for any delays.
00:38:41And so he found a few in Luke chapter 17.
00:38:46And he would always tell these stories.
00:38:48He would say, now, if you don't see a healing right away, well, hold on to your healing,
00:38:56confess it, act it, walk it out by faith and endure it, because not everybody in the Bible
00:39:01was healed instantly.
00:39:03And he had this clever way of taking people to certain passages.
00:39:08So he would say, remember the 10 lepers in Luke 17.
00:39:13And we know the account.
00:39:1410 lepers came.
00:39:16They asked to be healed.
00:39:17Jesus told them, go show yourself to the priest.
00:39:21That would involve a little bit of a trip to get from point A to point B.
00:39:27Jesus was simply following the Old Testament Levitical law, where only the priest could,
00:39:34they couldn't cure someone, but only they could pronounce the leprosy gone.
00:39:40And therefore, this person would be allowed to come back into the community of Israel and
00:39:45no longer have to live alone or in a leper colony.
00:39:48So Hobart said, now, look at the 10 lepers.
00:39:52Were they healed instantly?
00:39:55No.
00:39:55He said they took it by faith.
00:39:57And as they went and showed themselves to the priest on the way, they were healed.
00:40:06And of course, we know the story.
00:40:07One of them returned to thank him.
00:40:09The healing of the blind man in John 9, Jesus formed some little concoctions of mud, put it
00:40:20on the blind man's eyes and said, go and wash in the pool of Siloam.
00:40:25And we read that he went, he washed, and then he came seen.
00:40:32So Hobart was always trying to show there is a biblical precedent for this delay between
00:40:40when you pray and when you receive your actual healing.
00:40:45Another case would be in Mark chapter 8.
00:40:48Jesus prayed for a man.
00:40:50And then after he got through praying, he said, what do you see?
00:40:53And he said, I see men as trees walking.
00:40:57Jesus prayed for him again.
00:40:59And what did he see?
00:41:01He saw men clearly.
00:41:02And you could even go to the Old Testament and find examples like Naaman the Syrian that
00:41:07the prophet Elijah said, go dip seven times in the Jordan River and you'll be cleansed of
00:41:13your leprosy.
00:41:15And so what sprang from this then was a very convenient doctrine of Hobart Freeman's that
00:41:22for lack of a better word, we would just call his manifestation doctrine.
00:41:28And oh my, that big, long, five-syllable word, manifestation, was a favorite word of
00:41:35Dr. Freeman's.
00:41:36He used it in his definition of the Trinity.
00:41:39He used it in the manifestation of the sons of God, matured sonship, Romans 8, latter rain.
00:41:46But where he used it more than any other place was healing.
00:41:52That was part of the terminology.
00:41:56That was a part of the cult terminology.
00:41:58I don't know if it's to the same degree or if it even exists at all in other healing groups.
00:42:05But for the people at Faith Assembly, they had been prayed for.
00:42:11And now I'm just waiting for my manifestation.
00:42:15It was this big word.
00:42:17And, you know, when I first began hearing Freeman's tapes, I mean, who uses the word manifestation?
00:42:23It's just a big word.
00:42:24You use it rarely.
00:42:26You use it occasionally.
00:42:27But it was the cult language.
00:42:29It was one of the main words that you had to learn there.
00:42:35And I can remember first hearing that word and someone waiting for their manifestation.
00:42:39I said, you're doing what?
00:42:41I don't even know what that means.
00:42:43You know, it's not clear.
00:42:45It's not clear to the uninitiated.
00:42:48It's only clear to those in the group.
00:42:51You're waiting for what?
00:42:53I'm waiting for my manifestation.
00:42:54What does that even mean?
00:42:56Waiting for your manifestation.
00:42:58You know, it's a big word.
00:43:00It's a complicated word.
00:43:01You know, it's like in Mary Poppins.
00:43:03What does supercalifragilisticexpialidocious mean?
00:43:06That's a big word.
00:43:08What do these big words mean?
00:43:10Well, they couldn't say, I'm waiting for my healing because they got their healing, according
00:43:14to Mark 11, 24, Freeman interpretation, when they were prayed for or when they prayed for
00:43:19themselves.
00:43:21So they can't say, I'm waiting for my healing.
00:43:24They can't say, I'm waiting to feel better.
00:43:27They can't say, I'm waiting for the answer because you receive all of that, Mark 11, 24,
00:43:33Freeman interpretation, when you pray.
00:43:36So what are these people supposed to say?
00:43:39They say, well, I'm waiting for my manifestation.
00:43:44And again, John, you know, I'm the first to admit I fell for all this hook, line and sinker
00:43:50as a 17 and 18 and 19 year old.
00:43:52And here's the danger of not being able to critically think and not being able to say,
00:44:02no, wait a minute.
00:44:03Yeah, you gave me some examples of a delay.
00:44:06The lepers, they were going to show themselves to the priest.
00:44:10They were healed on the way.
00:44:12And one of them came back.
00:44:13The man went to the pool of Siloam and washed the mud off his eyes.
00:44:18And then he could see after that.
00:44:21Critical thinking would say, yeah, I see all that.
00:44:23That's in the Bible.
00:44:24I accept all that.
00:44:26But we're talking about a period of time like that.
00:44:29We're not talking about Hobart claiming his polio leg is lengthened and he's holding on
00:44:35year after year after year after year.
00:44:38We don't see any of that.
00:44:40That's why I said the healings in the Bible are either instant or they're immediate.
00:44:46And by immediate, I mean, they're going to happen in a few minutes, an hour at the most.
00:44:50They're going to happen that day.
00:44:52You're not going to be holding on for years waiting for your manifestation.
00:44:58It was a manipulation of the Bible to his own doctrinal advantage.
00:45:03But that is not what the Bible is actually teaching in these cases.
00:45:08I'm a fan of science fiction, as you can tell from the Millennium Falcon that's on my back wall.
00:45:14But not many people know this.
00:45:15I'm also a huge fan of the old Westerns.
00:45:18I love Bonanza, Gunsmoke, and a wide variety of the old movies.
00:45:22Well, in those shows, you've always got the traveling elixir salesman guy that's doing exactly what the faith healers are doing.
00:45:29And they go into a town, they give them this step right up.
00:45:33This will cure all your ailments.
00:45:35And the unsuspecting crowd takes whatever is the elixir.
00:45:39And people start to recognize that it's not changing them at all.
00:45:43They just might get a little bit drunk, but it's not really helping them at all.
00:45:48And they didn't use the word manifestation.
00:45:51But anybody who's trying to sell you something that they know doesn't work and trying to convince you to give them money for this thing that they know doesn't work, whenever the crowd starts to revolt, well, you come up with some word, whether it's manifestation, whatever it is.
00:46:06Go home.
00:46:07It'll just take you a while.
00:46:08I'll be long gone by the time you figure me out.
00:46:12And then you'd have Marshall, Matt Dillon, just riding after trying to catch the guy because he swindled the town out of their money.
00:46:19Well, that's what these faith healers were doing.
00:46:21They would come into town, same exact thing, and positive confession, manifestation, whatever they wanted to call it.
00:46:28Whenever the elixir didn't work, then they would say that this is the way it is.
00:46:32You've got to go home and you've got to wait.
00:46:34And I didn't go back far looking for exactly specifically that, but I did as far back as Dowie.
00:46:42Dowie was doing the same kind of things.
00:46:45F.F. Bosworth, who was in the Dowie cult, mentored Branham.
00:46:48And they actually, somewhere, if I can find it, I'll throw it on the screen.
00:46:52I don't know if I can find it, but they had this pamphlet that they would give out in the divine healing meetings, how to keep your healing.
00:46:59Because so many people were revolting.
00:47:01You need this pamphlet, and if you do any of these things, it's your fault.
00:47:06And essentially, the onus of your healing is on you, not on me.
00:47:10I just give you the healing.
00:47:11If you don't do the right things, you're going to lose your healing.
00:47:14So that's the way this was, and it's no different than the snake oil salesman.
00:47:18Yeah, and Hobart said the same thing.
00:47:21He had tapes on how to keep your healing or what to do so you don't lose your healing.
00:47:26All of these just magical incantations and formulas, nothing that has any sound biblical basis at all.
00:47:36And I can remember asking as I would, he just loved the word manifestation.
00:47:41And that's probably a new word for you, but the followers of Hobart Freeman and Faith Assembly will realize the prevalence of that word.
00:47:53It was a favorite word for Dr. Freeman to use because it served his theology well because, let's face it, when people were prayed for there, they weren't any better.
00:48:08You know, they looked the same.
00:48:09They weren't any better.
00:48:10So you've got to come up with some way.
00:48:13For your Westerns, at least that guy could get out of town.
00:48:18For Hobart, he couldn't get out of town.
00:48:21He was there with the people, and they were there.
00:48:24So he had to look, as I said, long and hard and find any cases in the Bible, like Naaman the Syrian.
00:48:33He had to go dip seven times.
00:48:35So what?
00:48:35He went and did it, and then he was healed.
00:48:37He didn't have leprosy anymore.
00:48:39So go ahead and give me whatever it is you want your incantation.
00:48:44Tell me to go show myself to the priest.
00:48:46I'll be happy to do it.
00:48:48As long as on the way there, I'm going to get healed.
00:48:50You know, on all these cases, even though there is a small delay in time, notice every one of them got healed.
00:48:57And in Hobart's manifestation scheme, nobody got healed.
00:49:02So I was always asking, because I am a little sarcastic by nature,
00:49:08but I tried to get to the root of the matter.
00:49:11And I would say, well, answer me this question.
00:49:14What's the difference between holding on, as Hobart did for his polio leg, holding on for 18 years, waiting for your manifestation, and not being healed at all?
00:49:29What's the difference between those two?
00:49:31There's no difference at all.
00:49:33What's the difference in waiting for 18 years, holding on, and then dying, never getting it, and never getting it?
00:49:40There is no difference at all.
00:49:41What's the difference between a person who does not take off their glasses, does not ask for healing, does not pray for healing, and 10 years later, their eyesight is just as bad as it was 10 years earlier?
00:49:58What's the difference between that person and the person who claimed their healing, who took off their glasses, who waited 10 years, and can't see any better?
00:50:08I can't see any difference between the two, except one of them got to have glasses for the last 10 years and be able to see, and the other person didn't.
00:50:16So, there's no difference between not getting it at all, and never even asking for it to begin with, and praying for it, and never getting it.
00:50:26There's no difference.
00:50:27The net result, the final outcome is the same.
00:50:31What I feel sorry so much for in the people's lives, though, John, is this incredible tension and terror that they felt as they waited for their manifestation.
00:50:44They knew once they prayed, you know, I can't pray again, because that would be unbelief.
00:50:50Mark 11, 24 says, when you pray, Hobart would say, not when you get the answer, in the manifested realm, when you pray, believe that you receive and you shall have it, you do your receiving and praying back then, and whenever it's manifested, he says that's always in God's timing.
00:51:09And so, he had literally brainwashed, literally brainwashed the people, following Hagen, Kenneth Hagen's interpretation of Mark 11, 24, and put these people in such a position of terror and tension, knowing, well, I'm healed, according to Mark 11, 24, but I'm still dying.
00:51:30I'm still hurting.
00:51:31I still can't see.
00:51:32The growth is still there.
00:51:34Whatever.
00:51:35It's still there.
00:51:36And these people are waiting for their manifestation.
00:51:42So, you know, here is here's me talking from, you know, a practical point of view of what this whole manifestation doctrine did.
00:51:56This is what it brought into the picture.
00:51:57For people who had minor issues, I just would ask people who followed Hobart Freeman's teaching on, believe you have received and you shall have it, Mark 11, 24, manifestation, just to think about this and process this.
00:52:14For minor health issues, this manifestation doctrine simply gives your body time to heal itself.
00:52:23So, for a person who's got a cold, and I think a cold, a headache, the flu, those are probably the most common things that people claimed by faith they were healed from at faith assembly.
00:52:38So, you know, you've got a cold, and so you're not going to take any medicine.
00:52:44You're just going to live life as normal.
00:52:47You've claimed your healing, and you're healed.
00:52:51And so you wait, you know, three or four or five days, and guess what?
00:52:56Now I'm finally healed.
00:52:57I'm feeling better.
00:52:58What's the difference in someone who did not claim by faith they're healing, and five days later they're feeling better too?
00:53:07Why?
00:53:08The body just threw it off.
00:53:11It's so interesting.
00:53:12God hasn't made our body in such a way that it doesn't help itself.
00:53:16He has made our body in such a way that it very much will help itself.
00:53:20Now, no, the body can't open a blind eye or heal a lame man.
00:53:25I'm not talking about that.
00:53:27I'm talking about minor issues where people claimed their healing, and then they stand up at faith assembly and say,
00:53:34I just want to praise the Lord.
00:53:35I want to give a testimony.
00:53:37I had a bad cold three weeks ago, and the Lord healed me from it.
00:53:42And we find out, yeah, a week later the Lord healed you from it.
00:53:45That's not the Lord healing you from that.
00:53:48That is your body taking care of itself.
00:53:50So there is one problem I have with a practical problem with this manifestation issue.
00:53:57And here's a practical problem of a much more serious nature.
00:54:01What if your case is not a minor one?
00:54:04What if your case is a serious one?
00:54:07Then do you know what this manifestation false doctrine of Hobart Freeman does for that person?
00:54:15Because you've claimed it and you're waiting for your manifestation, now this great time delay gives time for this condition to become much, much worse.
00:54:29Where if you had dealt with it early on, if you had gone to the doctor, if you had taken medication for it, as any normal human being would, as Timothy did for his stomach's sake,
00:54:43he drank some wine rather than, well, just keep on having stomach problems and just pray that one day the Lord will finally manifest your healing.
00:54:52None of this manifestation insanity is in the New Testament.
00:54:58It's purely in the mind and theology of a now dead Hobart Freeman who never received the manifestation, by the way, of any of the things he had claimed healing for.
00:55:09But my criticism that I'm leveling now against him and that message, John, is that it costs people their life.
00:55:18They they waited too long.
00:55:20I gave you a story not that long ago that a woman gave me of her father who had a little growth on his face.
00:55:27The barber noticed rather than getting it attended to right then.
00:55:31He let it go.
00:55:34He finally did decide I need to go have this looked at.
00:55:38And guess what?
00:55:38It was too late.
00:55:39And he went through, I believe, five years of, you know, excruciating experience.
00:55:46Having things surgically cut and removed and all kinds of treatment in the hospital and biomedical science.
00:55:54But here's the problem.
00:55:55It was too late.
00:55:57People who have a hernia that they need to go get that addressed.
00:56:01That is an easy fix.
00:56:03I know someone now who has been suffering from a hernia for years and he's waiting for his manifestation.
00:56:10That's not biblical.
00:56:12In the Bible, when people were prayed for for something like a hernia, they got healed right then.
00:56:18And when you give time for this manifestation doctrine to play it out itself out, then the woman who felt a little lump in her breast, the person who had some kind of growth they noticed in their stomach.
00:56:36What's happening as you're waiting for the manifestation, you're giving time for that to grow larger and larger until it gets to the place.
00:56:46It's inoperable.
00:56:48Now it's terminal.
00:56:49Now there's nothing can be done about it.
00:56:51And that's exactly where Hobart's manifestation doctrine of healing took people.
00:56:56It took them right down to death's door and for some people passed it.
00:57:01And that is the exact danger of the snake oil salesman.
00:57:05While you were talking, I looked up because I remember Branham talking about the manifest doctrine forever.
00:57:11You know, he's got the manifest sons of God, but he also talked exactly what you're saying about manifesting.
00:57:16And if you sum all of the different variations of that word, manifest, manifesting, all of this, it's over 3,500 times on just the recordings we have access to here.
00:57:27So this was a concept that was deeply taught throughout Latter Rain.
00:57:31Hobart Freeman picked it up from, you know, any one of the hundreds of people that Branham influenced.
00:57:36But the problem with the word specifically is that it was the ability to trick the people to take what they physically felt or physically saw wrong with their bodies and move it out of the physical realm into the so-called spiritual realm where they could pretend to ignore it.
00:57:54If he's manifesting, he's waiting for this thing to happen to you that sadly isn't happening to a lot of people and they died.
00:58:01But as they're going home and they're believing that this thing is going to manifest itself into a healing and then the family watches as they die, the sad part is many of those people who watched the family member die, they had also taken away the physical view of this situation and moved it into the spiritual.
00:58:22So when the person died, well, they died believing.
00:58:25So they went to heaven and they don't have this problem anymore.
00:58:28And then they still accept the doctrine as though it's true.
00:58:31They, they have taken it into the spiritual realm.
00:58:34They've taken the same snake oil elixir as the rest of them.
00:58:37And it's, it's so sad when you think of the number of people that have died.
00:58:41It's, it's just awful.
00:58:43Yeah, it's completely intellectually dishonest for the people you just mentioned to have watched someone endure and then die.
00:58:50And then they continue to hold on to that doctrine.
00:58:52You know, you're just being dishonest to yourself and to God and to others and to scripture.
00:58:57You need to pause and say, there's something wrong here.
00:59:01What they were trained though, however, John, is to say, oh, there must've been something wrong in the person.
00:59:06They must not have believed.
00:59:08They must've had sin.
00:59:09They're, you know, they're always blaming it on the person rather than go back and say, there's something wrong about our healing doctrine.
00:59:18That's where the problem lies.
00:59:20The problem doesn't lie in the person's life.
00:59:23The part, the problem lies in your erroneous doctrine of divine healing, but people are simply terrified to give that up.
00:59:33Um, I don't know exactly why, because it doesn't work.
00:59:38History has shown it doesn't work.
00:59:40Um, they have just been so brainwashed in their mind that they sincerely and truly feel that they will have sinned in God's eyes if they ever give up this false doctrine of healing.
00:59:54So they're just going to continue to hold on to it and they really don't care about the consequences.
01:00:00Absolutely.
01:00:01Well, reminder about the gathering this weekend.
01:00:04So if you're wanting to come to it, the details, I'll put them into the description of the video and the description of the YouTube.
01:00:11So if you're interested, you can find your information there.
01:00:14So if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web.
01:00:18You can find us at william-brannum.org.
01:00:21For more about the dark side of the new apostolic reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR.
01:00:28Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.
01:00:44Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.
01:01:14Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.