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Zara Qairina Mahathir’s death in Sabah in July has turned a spotlight on bullying in schools, exposing not just the violence itself but also the slow and inadequate institutional response. As public anger grows, calls for reform are intensifying: from an Anti-Bullying Act to school-based interventions. On #ConsiderThis we ask what Malaysia must do to make schools safe spaces again, and what lessons Zara’s case leaves us as a nation. Melisa Idris speaks with Dr Farah Nini Dusuki, Children's Commissioner to the Human Rights Commission of Malaysia (SUHAKAM).
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00:00hello and good evening i'm melissa idris welcome to consider this this is the show where we want
00:15you to consider and then reconsider what you know of the news of the day zara kairina mahadir's death
00:21in sabah in july has turned the spotlight on bullying in schools exposing not just the violence
00:28itself but the slow and inadequate institutional response now as public anger grows calls for
00:35reform are intensifying from an anti-bullying act um being proposed to school-based interventions
00:42being called for now tonight on the show we'll ask what malaysia must do to make schools safe spaces
00:50again and what lessons zara's case leaves us as a nation joining me on the show today is dr farah
00:58who is a child commissioner to sohaka the human rights commission of malaysia dr farah it's good
01:03of you to join us on the show it's good to have you back um zara's death of course has really shaken the
01:09country raised a lot of alarm bells about how widespread bullying has become in our schools
01:14now from your perspective as children's commissioner what has azara's case revealed to you about how
01:22bullying cases are are addressed and handled in malaysia okay thank you very much melissa
01:28assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wala barakatuh um clearly zara's case has shown how uh to be very
01:35bluntly uh bullying cases are being handled poorly and and with least focus on the best interest of
01:44children uh why do i say that is because um when a case happens in as severe as what happened to zara
01:51um i think there were signs before that were overlooked i mean in a good system whenever um
01:58you know whenever there's a case like this surely there have been signals before you know or attempts
02:03to complain um or maybe um even daring not to complain you know so so many um factors involved
02:11all at the same time but then again it just goes to show that despite you know the case of zara took
02:16place i think exactly about a month ago within the same week there were at least three cases um of a
02:24horrendous nature so much so that my office has issued a um media statement um highlighting on the issue and
02:31it goes to show that it is so rampant and despite the publicity around zara's case it it seems that you
02:37know between zara's case and now there's been about 10 cases you know with six involving very severe
02:43injuries it is certainly alarming could you maybe elaborate a little bit about some of the cases that
02:49um suhakam has received bullying cases specifically are were there any patterns that you noticed all
02:55right i mean um the ones that suhakam um has received um fortunately or unfortunately they are not the
03:02most severe of its kind in the sense that i i suppose um people who come to us know that we we do not
03:10have intervention powers you know we don't have an enforcement authority so but what they want us to
03:15do is to at least look into it you know and and help them to get some form of remedy so for example um
03:22in past three years almost three years since i've become commissioner uh we have received um a total of
03:2810 cases nine cases involving peer-to-peer violence uh peer-to-peer bullying whereas one of those 10
03:36involves teacher and student yes so um yeah that's that's really concerning isn't it yes okay talk to me
03:45about that about the differences in the dynamics between peer-to-peer and teacher bullying now when we
03:53look at violence in school you know of course there are different dynamics within peer-to-peer
03:57and also teacher to students and and of course it's um it's worrying because when it happens between
04:05teachers and students it goes to show that you know not not good examples have been shown to the
04:11students isn't it not in fact the one case that we receive is especially um to me it's pretty alarming
04:18because it's a case whereby the teacher suspected the student was wearing makeup to school when she
04:23was using sunscreen and her face was actually rubbed so hard that you know she got injured in front of
04:30the whole classroom you see so there's multi-level level of bullying isn't it i mean and and the the poor
04:36girl is traumatized not just by the physical act but also the shame you know that has taken place in
04:43front of all the rest of her peers so with behavior like that i mean are we really shocked that children
04:51are violent can i ask you um dr farah in the cases of peer-to-peer which seem to be the majority of cases
05:01that suhaqam has received at least um how do we think about that i mean i what procedures should there
05:08be in place um to ensure that bullying is uh addressed i'm also wondering because holding
05:15bullies accountable means also we need to recognize that they too are children in need of guidance and
05:22maybe rehabilitation how do we strike that balance absolutely yes it is not an easy balance to strike but
05:29you are absolutely right we must remember that they are also children and and whether they are the
05:35aggressors or whether they are victims both should be treated as children first and foremost now when
05:42they are victims the reason why it i feel that has become so rampant is because schools no longer
05:49it's a safe haven for children and and because of that all the more necessary to have a good
05:57complaint mechanism where children feel safe you know to to inform of any incidence of bullying but we all know
06:04that this is not the case because many times you know children come and tell us that when they
06:10complain it just gets worse it doesn't get better they get supposed to the extent that they have to
06:15change schools you see so definitely what we need is a it's a safe portal a complaint mechanism
06:23whereby children can actually address their uh you know their grievances freely without any fear
06:29and and and and you talk about and you ask me about when what if where they are the aggressors well
06:35first and foremost i i'm not um i'm not in favor of taking punitive actions against them you know
06:41especially when it's uh first time definitely uh um a strong message has to be sent that bullying is
06:50unacceptable but at the same time uh you do not want to address this group of children in a fully punitive
06:57manner because they have a long way to go and if you involve the criminal justice system stigmatization
07:03that come along with it has far-reaching consequences to these children and when you
07:10talk about the child justice system the focus has got to be reformation rehabilitation and reintegration
07:17into the society because at the end of the day it is to our benefit that these children reformed
07:21is it not yeah then yeah if they're treated in a punitive manner and and we put them where they're
07:26not supposed to be and they just learn we're strict okay all right so i have two questions in response
07:32to that to follow up on that um the absence of a mechanism or the education ministry says actually
07:38it has channels to report bullying um i think they have a skola kus jatra portal they have other web
07:44portals to do so anonymously do you think these measures are falling short uh where are the gaps for to
07:50address that and the other regarding the punitive measures so we have on the table being proposed
07:56currently the anti-bullying act so a specific legislation dedicated legislation uh to define
08:03and criminalize these different forms of bullying do you think we need such a law or should we be
08:08focusing on strengthening enforcement under existing frameworks to avoid punitive measures i think we need
08:15to do both you know on one hand we need to enforce whatever we have now because like it or not this
08:21as i've mentioned earlier despite all the publicity that has been taking place it is still happening at
08:27an alarming rate so because of that you know immediate action must be taken to address the issue on the
08:33other hand um you know having an anti-bully um legislation on its own which is supposed to be a comprehensive
08:40in nature and all that you know should be on the plate but as a longer term you know target it
08:46it should not i mean it cannot be just purely punitive because you need to address the children
08:51who are involved in a more restorative manner so because of that a lot of work needs to go into that
08:56you don't want to have something which is a knee-jerk reaction and only to face you know different
09:00problems as a result of that yeah i want to ask you about the cultural dimension of um some of the root
09:07causes of bullying i think there are some people who argue that um bullying thrives particularly in
09:14malaysia because schools normalize hierarchies right you have the seniors you have the juniors
09:18you have the teachers you have the students and that this culture actually enables abuse of power
09:23how much do you think um that's true um i i think that is more um that is more um relevant
09:33in boarding schools you know this culture of seniority and juniors because they they they learn
09:40sleep and eat together you see but then i think when we look at bullying and we need to look at it
09:46holistically and not just uh at the residential level so um for that there is a there is a um a very good
09:53study that has taken place and published in 2021 which actually um addressed spoke to children in
10:00four thousand and four hundred sixty nine um schools secondary schools in malaysia and they
10:06received almost 90 percent respondents and they have highlighted the causes of it and they they've
10:11literally stood down seven but i want to highlight what i think is so important and that is social media
10:17the research found that the more children are spending time on the social media the higher the risk of bullying taking place
10:26you know both as perpetrator and also as victims because it affects their mental health so i think
10:32this is something that we want to highlight um i'll be more than happy to share the link to the you know
10:37to the study later on um but but more importantly um um that that's one and then also mental health you see
10:46children who are stressed having anxieties etc they are too more prone towards bullying and it goes without saying that
10:54uh school environment a strong and positive bond between teachers and students actually can cut
11:00bullying into half you see so i i think that of all the seven points these three points are particularly
11:06important and needs to be highlighted because you have to think that the the closer the the closer
11:13children and their teachers are you can actually prevent bullying from taking place in the first place
11:19and and and you talk about residential school i think residential school needs extra um surveillance and
11:24monitoring because i too went to boarding school for five years and and and fortunately in august boarding
11:30school we never had you know not at least um what we are hearing now because why our wardens and our
11:37teachers although they were very very strict my you and august school but they were loving and kind at the same
11:43time you see and they were very vigilant and monitored us very carefully so we don't know what time they'll
11:50do the spot checks it can be at 2 a.m it can be at 1 a.m and as long as you're out of bed when lights are
11:55closed you know we'll be prepared to to face the consequences but you see now the fact that zara was actually
12:03seen at different times according to the report right um goes to show that where are the where is the
12:09monitoring system where are the adults in this case who are supposed to be there to protect the
12:14children yes so surveillance and monitoring has to be heightened in the current uh rampancy of bullying
12:21taking place dr farah thank you so much for sharing some of those really important points with us on the
12:28show i appreciate your time dr farah nini dusuki children's commissioner to suhakam there we're going to
12:33take a quick break or consider this we'll be back with more stay tuned
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