- 3 months ago
Violence and bullying in schools are making headlines, but what’s really happening inside our classrooms? This week on It’s About YOUth, we speak to Shangari Chenteral Velo and Denail Perry Eddy on how discipline, digital life, and empathy shape the safety of Malaysia’s students.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Hi, I'm Amirul Ayman and you're watching It's About Youth. We've been hearing more and more
00:13about violence, bullying and even tragic cases involving students. It's forcing us to ask what's
00:20really happening to our school nowadays and what kind of environment our young people are growing
00:26up in. Joining me today are two passionate youth voices, Shangri Centrel-Velu from Future Leaders
00:32Schools of Negeri Sembilan and also Denial Perry Eddy from Pocket of Pink. Ladies and gentlemen,
00:37thank you so much for coming to the show today. Let's start broad. When you look at the recent
00:45cases we have seen, what do they tell us about the kind of environment students are growing up in?
00:50Shangri, maybe we'll start with you first. From what you observe among younger students,
00:54what stands out most about their attitudes or pressures today? I think currently we can see
01:01that many of the students are living in a constant stressful environment. So this can be academic
01:07stress, this can be social stress through social media, etc. And considering that all of these new
01:14cases have been coming up regarding bullying and school violence, it shows that these students are
01:20now going to have an additional amount of stress which is the fear from whether or not they're going to be
01:26safe in their schools. So I think that this can also reflect in a way how much these young people are
01:33actually neglected right now. Neglected by their parents or neglected by the schools or neglected by
01:40could even say the government itself. So academic pressure, peer pressure as well. Denial, how about you?
01:47How about your circle? What are young people telling you about feeling safe or unsafe or even outside the classroom?
01:53So for me personally, I think we can see that it shows that while our students nowadays are more connected
01:59and more expressive and more expressive generations, they're also navigating in an environment where
02:08they haven't caught up in the realities that they face, especially emotionally and digitally.
02:15So we can see now that schools nowadays, they mirror societies, pressures, competition, online influences
02:21and even lack of safety channels for the students to speak up. So the fact that these cases keep
02:26surfacing tells us that we have a system that they do exist, but it is not protective enough and it is not
02:34comprehensive enough. And the safety framework needs to evolve beyond just physical discipline.
02:42It needs to include emotional safety, digital well-being, as well as stronger intervention systems.
02:48And I do strongly agree with what Swakam just stated last July, I think. And they said that no child should ever be
03:00afraid to go to school and I firmly believe in that.
03:02And I would like to go back to what Shangri just said just now, when you said academic pressure, peer pressure.
03:09Do you think social media and also comparison culture plays a part in shaping how students treat one another?
03:18Yeah, I do think that social media does play a role, but we shouldn't say that it's only social media
03:24that is playing the role. In fact, there are a lot of other pressures and also the neglect that comes from
03:32unsupervised social media use. But I do believe that social media use has been bringing up
03:37a pressure in terms of comparison because they are comparing and it can form a source of jealousy, etc.
03:44Or, yeah, so I do think that it can exacerbate, but it's not the key reason to the school violences.
03:50Okay, so we already have school rules, we already have counsellors in place and even helplines,
03:55but cases still happen. And why do you think this issue persists? Denial, do you think it's more of a
04:02system problem or perhaps a culture problem? I think we can say that even with rules like that,
04:10we cannot say that rules can actually create a more safe place for children. But what we can say
04:19that culturally, it does help a lot. So many schools nowadays, they still operate within a reactive
04:26system in which we only act after harm happens. So reporting mechanisms are often unclear and
04:35victims are often fear of being stigmatised and also teachers may not be trained to handle disclosures.
04:44So we may suspend and we may scold the students, but we rarely address on why the bullies act the way
04:50that they do and how bystanders can actually intervene in the situation at that time. So yes,
04:57of course the structure is there, but it is outdated, it is inconsistent, and not enforced equally among
05:04all schools in Malaysia. And if rising cases prove anything nowadays, it shows that the system has
05:12failed to protect child like it was supposed to. And we cannot just take like compliances boxes,
05:17we have to make safety as a part of the school's daily, the school's daily culture like that.
05:25And Duna, in your work, you said that, sorry, before that you said the system has failed us. So in your work,
05:33based on what you've seen, what usually makes students feel like they stay silent? Is it perhaps fear or
05:40stigma or simply not knowing who to turn to? Yeah. I think it's a little bit,
05:47a little bit mix of everything because most of the factor is I think because they are afraid that
05:56the issue is being turned against themselves. So I think that's what hold people from speaking out
06:04and speak out about whatever they're facing and whatever caused them to act a certain way.
06:11Shagiri, based on what you've seen, the channels that we have, do students even trust those kind
06:16of channels, you know, even like counsellors or helpline and that meant to protect them?
06:22No, I don't think so. And I think that's the main problem in our culture. Because even with the
06:27current suggestions to put in harsher punishments, I don't think it forms a community of trust.
06:33Because in a school, people have to trust each other. And especially when it comes to teachers,
06:38usually teachers are seen as family members or perhaps their parents, second parents in school,
06:43right? So even when you put all these kind of punishments, et cetera, I don't think it's getting
06:48to the root cause of it. So the root cause of it is the fact that they are neglected or the fact that
06:57they have not been given enough emotional attention or all of their mental stress or distress have not
07:05been paid attention to and cared for. So I don't think that it currently in our in, I think currently
07:13in our schools, mostly the teachers are also overworked, right? So they don't have the time to actually
07:19pay attention to these children. They have to settle meeting KPIs or completing paperworks. And
07:27I don't think it gives room for them to connect with the children properly. And additionally,
07:31I also think that there's a problem where we have around 40 children in one classroom. And imagine
07:36there are about five forms or six standards. And in each form, there's going to be around six or five
07:43classes. So it's too many people. And firstly, the teacher in the classroom cannot pay attention
07:49to all of these children. And secondly, there are only probably two or three counsellors in the
07:53entire school. And it's not going to be enough to give support to all of these children.
07:57And it's very well known that, you know, school teachers nowadays, they don't just teach,
08:01they have a lot of admin works that you mentioned before. But the ministry have again and again
08:06stressed on students need to speak up whenever they see any issues arise and all that. So,
08:12Shangri, what would help it make it easier for these students to actually speak up when something's
08:18wrong? What do you think? I think firstly, they have, like I've mentioned, they have to have the
08:23connection with their teachers. So they have to have people that they can trust. And secondly,
08:28for example, in Peru, they had a specialized system against school violence, where the school
08:33will register to the system. And after that, in the system, any of the witnesses or any of the
08:38victims can anonymously report their issues that they have faced or any violence or any bullying.
08:45And then the school can take the measures to follow up with steps to improvement from there
08:52on. And this information is also can, yeah, it's no, this information is protected in terms of only
09:00the some people in the ministry can access to the data on who it is. But at the same time,
09:07the any of the local councils related to education can also help to monitor whether or not these schools
09:13are taking the follow-up steps. So I think when a platform like this, a digital or even face-to-face
09:20platform like this exists, where students can report anonymously, it will help them a lot.
09:25And then now the government's considering a social media and smartphone ban for students
09:30under 16. And how do you think that could affect student behavior and also its safety? Shangri,
09:36we'll start with you first. If this rule existed when you were in school, what impact do you think
09:42it would have had on you and also your peers? Actually, to be honest, the smartphone and social
09:47media ban, I think it sounds like an easy solution, an easy solution to when we can't find the root
09:54cause. So actually smartphones are already banned in schools. Students can't take the smartphones. It's just
10:00what's left is, have we enforced it properly? Have we done the spot checks properly? Yes,
10:05spot checks are time consuming, but I think it's still necessary to, especially at this point,
10:10to restore trust in the people. Because even if it's time consuming, it's necessary to check for
10:15whether they have brought any weapons or even their smartphones, etc. And regarding social media bans,
10:21how are we going to implement it? Are we going to ask people to put in their IC numbers, scan their IC?
10:28I don't think it's going to work that well. And even if it did, right? In the end, people will always
10:35find a way to use social media. What if parents are going to not supervise their children on social
10:40media, then they're also not going to supervise children whether or not they're going to use their
10:45parents' phones to use the social medias. So in the end, it's a very ineffective implementation.
10:49Okay. And Danal, do you think banning devices can solve the root issue? Or is it more about
10:55teaching responsible use of social media or even smartphones?
10:59So it is very much understandable that the government does this implementation. But
11:05because of many incidents, we can see including bullying and even recording of violence happens
11:11online. And we have to understand by banning phones, it won't solve the root cause of the issue.
11:17Young people nowadays, they still need to access digital literacy. They need to learn responsible use
11:23and also not just being restricted from the use of phone. And then a full ban might actually reduce
11:29exposure, but it also limits communication in emergencies. And it also ignores what happened
11:35actually after school hours. And then I would say maybe we could add something a little bit more
11:41balanced, like teaching responsible use to young people. And we can also have supervised phone
11:47policies. But we have to pair it with education on empathy, consent, as well as digital boundaries.
11:55If I may add, I think we've always seen social media as something that is negative. But we have failed
12:01to recognise that social media have also brought in awareness to mental health issues as well.
12:05Forex and also this school violence and bullying as well. For example, in hashtag make school a safer place,
12:10we can see I think around 568 posts by victims who have faced school violence and bullying. So it
12:18actually brings a platform where people can talk about it and raise awareness as well.
12:23And another proposal we've heard is to reintroduce canning and also a stricter punishment. Would that
12:29work in today's context? Denial, what's your first reaction when you hear that suggestion?
12:35So I don't think, I personally don't think that canning will solve the problem in the long term,
12:41but it might actually create like a short term fear, but not understanding and not understanding or
12:47empathy. So unconsciously, we are creating a repeating cycle of using violence to control violence. So
12:56I really, don't get me wrong, I really do understand that we need disciplines, but
13:00we have to get disciplines through respect and not fear. So schools actually should teach more about
13:07accountability than humiliation, because in the long run, humiliation will only affect the child's
13:13self-confidence in the future, right? And we do not want that. And also, we need to do something that
13:19is more restorative approach, where students can understand that the harm that they cause and
13:26can actually repair it. And this should actually work better than punishment that eventually leads
13:33to resentment. And what about you, Shangari? How do you think about the students? How do you think
13:37students would respond to that? I think like Dan said, canning or giving any harsh punishments,
13:43there are also forms of violence as well towards children. It's actually a very short term plan. And I don't
13:50think it still addresses the root cause. It's a very easy implementation. Okay, you do something wrong,
13:55I'm going to punish you. You do something wrong, I'm going to punish you. But in the end,
13:57is it actually solving it? No. And if we're going to do any sort of punishment, then it should be
14:04something that is reflective, something that they can think about the people that have made the
14:09mistakes, right? And I don't think it has to stop at the punishment level. After that, you have to give
14:15them guidance. After that, the counsellors have to give them the support to help them change, because you
14:20can't just give a punishment and expect that they're going to change by themselves, right? And when
14:25we think about canning, it means that when those teachers who have power, they are showing or implying
14:32that when you have power, then you can dominate. And when you can dominate, then you can do whatever
14:38you want or do any sort of violence to the children. So what does this imply? It's going back to the
14:43same basis of bullying itself. Because bullying itself is when you have a power in terms of social
14:48status, then you're thinking that, oh, I can do whatever that I want, then I can dominate over
14:52people. So I don't think it's giving a good example either to the children.
14:57So let me get it straight. Both of you disagree with the implementation of canning as to solve the
15:02root issue. But some parents and teachers believe that disciplines are needed and some of them are
15:07for canning because it was during back in their generation. But others say it creates fear as well.
15:13So why are these opinions so divided between these two generations? Shangri, do you think it's because
15:20generations see respect differently? Yes, I do think they do see respect differently. And at the
15:28same time, I think they are comparing the amount of stress levels of children as well. They always
15:34like to compare that. People in the past generation have undergone so much amount of stress and they
15:40were still doing all right. But I think the times have changed. Right now, the youths have different
15:46sorts of pressures and it does not invalidate their pressures just because it doesn't seem as harsh
15:52as how it will be for this. So I think it's equally valid. And yeah, that's all for me.
16:00Then, how do you think we can bridge this gap of mindset between these two generations?
16:07So just like Shangri said just now, actually at the end of the day, both of these parties,
16:11they actually want the same thing, which is to have safe and respectful children.
16:16But it's just that their approaches are very different and some see like strictness as the
16:21fastest way to maintain order and misbehavior, while others fear that it might damage a child's trust.
16:27So the reconciliation lies in structure with support. So you can be firm without being abusive
16:35and set clear consequences, but also provide counseling and guidance. So when students and
16:40children know that adults actually care and have boundaries, they will respond better. So what's
16:48important is that discipline should, at the end of the day, they should teach values and not just obedience.
16:55So we've been talking about gaining social media bans. So these are all punishments. So now let's look
17:01beyond punishment. What are the ways that can we build a safe school culture then? You've worked with
17:07youth programs before. What initiatives have actually pretty much worked in order to reduce the conflict?
17:15So I think what we need right now is something that is more a proactive, like a more proactive system than
17:21just a reactive system that I mentioned just now. So we need to have professionally trained psychological
17:27support in school and peer support network because students actually usually confide with friends
17:34first. We also need to have early intervention teams where teachers trained to spot like early red flags
17:43before actually before things actually escalated, right? And then there's also a restorative
17:49restorative justice circle where students can take responsibility and make amends instead of just
17:57receiving punishments. And finally, we can also consider consistent reporting channels
18:03that are clear and most importantly anonymous and trusted. And because if students know that
18:11where and how to speak up, and that's already prevention. And as cliche as it may sound,
18:17prevention is always better than cure. And Shangri, what do you think schools themselves can do
18:22differently now from day to day? I know schools cannot just turn a blank page because a lot of cases
18:29have already been happening. So they must do something differently to convince not just the parents
18:34but the public as well. So what can they do now differently from day to day? I think like I've mentioned
18:39regarding the anonymous platform for them to share. And at the same time, I do believe that we have to
18:49introduce people from different areas. For example, people from Kementerian Kesihatan for any of the
18:56counselling helps, etc. And at the same time, I think many NGOs and maybe many youths as well may be very
19:04interested to help out. So even if there is not enough teachers or not enough people in the schools
19:12to help these children, I think people from outside can actually involve, including parents, alumni,
19:17youths. We can have, for example, in a classroom, we can have around three mentors for them. So these mentors
19:26can be a sort of inspiration to the children. For example, any youths that are going to university, they can
19:30give them inspiration to continue striving higher. And at the same time, these youths are some people
19:36who can connect with the children easily. And they have some sort of experience as well. So we can give
19:42these youths some sort of trainings so that they can volunteer in schools later on. So it will help
19:48schools to form, have people that they can trust for children. And at the same time, I do believe that,
19:58like Dan said, teachers should have the training as well to be able to spot the small cues. Because
20:05I believe that when we talk about bullying and school violence, we only think about it when it becomes
20:10too serious, or only when it gets the headlines that we think about it. But no, in fact,
20:18every small thing has maybe given a flag or has given indication to what this child may be going
20:26towards too. So I think at that time itself, we should have curved it as well. And at the same
20:30time, I do believe that we should stop when it's small. For example, when someone makes any sort of
20:37sexist jokes, or any sort of racist jokes, or comments to anybody, for example, in schools,
20:44then it should have been stopped at that point itself. And we should not be enablers in terms of for
20:50parents and teachers. There have been a lot of suggestions and calls made by both of you and
20:55also the general public about how we can make the school safe, better calls for more counsellors,
21:02better teachers with better training, a peer support system as well. But Dan, I want to ask you,
21:07the bigger question is, are the schools ready for reform? Do you feel like the schools are equipped and
21:13ready for it? I think this kind of idea is not necessary, I think. And I personally think we have
21:25spent so much years to invest in physical infrastructure. And something that we should
21:32have started even sooner and earlier is that we have to invest in human infrastructure. And then
21:36something like counselling services, something that are more cost effective than compared to
21:47social cause of trauma. So trainings, teachers can be trained on child protection and something
21:58program that can be integrated into the existing professional development. And then we can also
22:05introduce like a peer support program that can build empathy and leadership among students that
22:14eventually they can turn bystanders to protect us. And yes, of course, these reforms may take time,
22:22but the impact can last even beyond school years. And then I understand that we cannot change our
22:30co-curriculum overnight. But the thing is, we don't actually need to overhaul everything all at once.
22:37We can implement a base risk fixes now like supervision, reporting and counselling while we review
22:45something that is bigger to reforms. And there has been a saying that students aren't just victims. They can
22:53also be a part of the solution. Now, how can you take the responsibility? Shangri, I want to ask you,
23:01what kind of student leadership or maybe peer support roles that could make a difference in schools?
23:07Shangri, I think firstly, the students themselves have to understand or be able to identify when a
23:16violence is happening or bullying is happening, even when it's small, like I've mentioned. And when that
23:21happens, for example, these victims may be scared to voice out. So these friends that have to be able to
23:28help them by informing the teacher or reaching out to people that they trust so that the people that they
23:35trust can reach them to the NGOs, etc. And on the other side, that is for school students, right? Now,
23:42for youths who have left school, I believe that they should give back to their schools by volunteering
23:48again, by volunteering and giving these students a person that they can trust and build a supporting
23:57community, supportive community. And we don't have much time here. So I'll skip to the part where
24:03we want to end on a hopeful note. So what would a truly safe environment for schools and also supportive
24:10look like to the both of you? Start with Dan first. Paint me that picture. What would a safe and
24:16supportive schools look like to you? So for me personally, I think a safe school is one where every
24:23student feels seen, heard and protected, not just from physical harm, but also emotional neglect.
24:30If they are not receiving this at home, they will obviously look for this in schools. So a safe school
24:36for me is a place with strong reporting systems with trained teachers, open communication with parents,
24:45as well as a culture that prioritizes empathy as much as they prioritizes excellence. So to get there,
24:52I think we need to update our policies. We need to have consistent commitment and enforcement. And then
24:58also we need to have public accountability. Because as I said earlier, I really do believe that no child,
25:06not even one child should ever be afraid to go to school. And yes, the system is there. But even if it
25:13fills even one child, I think it's not enough. And we have to really act and do something about it.
25:19What about you, Shangari? And also who needs to move first in order for you to,
25:24for us to get to that safe and supportive school environment? Is it students, teachers or perhaps
25:29policymakers? Alright, to understand the second question first, I think we all have to move first.
25:34Every one of us will play a role and from today onwards, we all have to move together. We can't wait for one
25:39person to move because then it's never going to happen because everybody's thinking that they're not ready yet.
25:44And I think regarding how a school will look like, the supportive school, I think it will be somewhere
25:50that is positive, where people can trust one another, where the students have high amount of trust towards
25:56their teachers. And a school where those rules and regulations will also involve the participation,
26:03active participation of the students. And when it comes to punishments, they not only get a reflective
26:10kind of punishment, but they also get the support later on to move on and turn into a new leaf.
26:15And I think a school that has constant monitoring and follow ups to these victims of bullying or any
26:24sort of violence. And I think that it's a school where everybody works together, not just teachers,
26:29not just the school administration, but the entire society. Because when this kind of school violence or
26:35bullying happens, it's not just a failure of the school, but it's a failure of the society itself.
26:40Thank you very much, Dan and Shangari for sharing your kind insights. So what we've heard today is
26:45that safety in schools isn't just about rules. It's also about trust, empathy, and also shared effort.
26:51But I guess that's all the time that we have for today's It's About Youth. I'm Amirul Aiman.
26:55Thank you for watching. Good night.
Be the first to comment