From viral activism to parliamentary action - Ain Husniza is back and this time she’s not just speaking up, she’s demanding change.
In this powerful episode, we sit down with the founder of the #MakeSchoolASaferPlace movement to talk about what she now calls Malaysia’s “school safety crisis.”
Ain opens up about the tipping point that drove her and her coalition to take their fight straight to Parliament - giving the Education Minister a 30-day ultimatum to deliver on 11 urgent reforms or face calls for resignation.
From pushing for a National Anti-Bullying Act to calling for mental wellbeing and emotional intelligence to be taught from Year One, Ain unpacks how these changes could reshape Malaysia’s education system - making schools safer, kinder, and more accountable.
Watch this full conversation with Ain Husniza only on Sinar Daily’s TikTok, YouTube and Facebook. Don’t miss it!
#TopNewsPodcast #SinarDaily #AinHusniza #MakeSchoolASaferPlace #SchoolSafetyCrisis #EducationReform #SafeSchools #AntiBullyingAct #MentalHealthInSchools #StudentRights
In this powerful episode, we sit down with the founder of the #MakeSchoolASaferPlace movement to talk about what she now calls Malaysia’s “school safety crisis.”
Ain opens up about the tipping point that drove her and her coalition to take their fight straight to Parliament - giving the Education Minister a 30-day ultimatum to deliver on 11 urgent reforms or face calls for resignation.
From pushing for a National Anti-Bullying Act to calling for mental wellbeing and emotional intelligence to be taught from Year One, Ain unpacks how these changes could reshape Malaysia’s education system - making schools safer, kinder, and more accountable.
Watch this full conversation with Ain Husniza only on Sinar Daily’s TikTok, YouTube and Facebook. Don’t miss it!
#TopNewsPodcast #SinarDaily #AinHusniza #MakeSchoolASaferPlace #SchoolSafetyCrisis #EducationReform #SafeSchools #AntiBullyingAct #MentalHealthInSchools #StudentRights
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hello, Assalamualaikum everyone. I am Tassin Loman and you are watching Top News Podcast
00:09with Sinar Daily. And today we're going to talk about classrooms. Is it safe? Is it okay?
00:17Is it dangerous? That's why we're here with Ayan Hosniza, Education Advocate,
00:22make school a safer place. Thank you so much for joining us today.
00:25Thank you for inviting me.
00:26Alright, I love it that you're here because we've been talking about this for the longest time.
00:31And I think like even earlier this year, you were here to talk about safety and protection of women and girls.
00:36I mean, women in general, but also girls in the classroom in schools.
00:40So let's talk about the reforms and everything that comes with following all the activities and incidents
00:50that have been happening in the school. Like it's been absolute chaos for the past few months.
00:55Basically, from bullying, to rape, to pornographic material, up to death.
01:05Okay, death. So Ayan, you've called the current education conditions as a school safety crisis.
01:13Safety crisis. Okay.
01:14What was the tipping point that pushed you and the coalition, your team?
01:19I think like it's, it'll be nice if you explain who are your team as well.
01:23And why and how do you take this directly to parliament with the education minister?
01:29Yeah, so we're actually from the Secretariat Sekolah Selamat or the Safe School Secretariat.
01:36And basically, we're actually a coalition of eight different youth organizations who believe in safer schools
01:42and the need of addressing of the current safety school crisis.
01:46And I think that like me personally, I was, you know, with hashtag MeSchoolSaverPlace that happened in 2021, right?
01:54So now up until today, that's been four years in calling and in working of trying to make this idea of schools being a safer place.
02:02And, but basically, when we saw this continuous pattern, I think in within of two weeks, we saw like five cases happening day by day of rape, violence, stabbing, killing, bullying.
02:18And so I think it called me and my friends together that we actually needed to take a drastic action to make sure that this,
02:26that the safety school crisis is actually being resolved and addressed by the Ministry of Education.
02:34And I think that, you know, we tried like digital campaigns, we tried raising awareness.
02:39And I mean, personally, within the Secretariat of the School Safety, I founded an organization, Paket of Pink.
02:47And what we do is that we basically bring comprehensive sex education to schools in Klang Valley, as well as marginalized communities all across Malaysia.
02:56So, you know, for me personally, it was that I tried, you know, using activism.
03:02I tried spreading awareness by using my voice to spread for trying to call and make schools safer and asking for these policy reforms by the then Minister of Education during that time,
03:13which was Razi Jidin, and coming four years, we changed government.
03:17And now we see that all of the things that, you know, we basically talked about before coming to fruition, I feel,
03:24because we said that, you know, rape joke will lead to actual violence, normalization of violence and making fun of violence will lead to actual violence.
03:33And now we see it happening to the current students that are in school.
03:38So we thought that, okay, we cannot wait.
03:40We need to send memorandum.
03:41And they've been asking then, okay, so if you've been talking about this, like, what's your solution?
03:45And we've drafted 10 solutions.
03:47And we hope that through these demands that the Minister of Education will be able to make it.
03:52Maybe you could share with us what are the 10 solutions, like, for the people watching.
03:57Maybe the ones that are most effective, you feel personally, that can start immediately, you know?
04:02So, for us, one of the most effective things is that I'd ever feel the implementation of comprehensive sexual education in our own school.
04:12So, we do have a form of it in our current national system, which is called PEERS.
04:17However, what is PEERS is actually a, it's basically fragmented syllabus.
04:23So, for example, they'll teach a little bit of sex education in pendikan Islam, they'll teach a little bit of sex education in pendikan moral, a little bit of it in pendikan jasmani and pendikan kesihatan.
04:34But what happens is that not every student is going to study that, right?
04:38Even in mind myself, you're not going to take pendikan moral.
04:40So, what happens is that it's not, the key word here is that it's not comprehensive.
04:45Okay.
04:45Not every student is able to learn from it.
04:49So, that's one of our first demands.
04:51And then secondly, the enactment of the Anti-Bullying Act for students, because currently we don't have that.
04:59And also, more specifically, the enactment of an anti-sexual harassment bill.
05:04But, basically, from my case in hashtag MaySchoolSafePlace after 2021, in 2022, after 30 years, we finally had the anti-sexual harassment bill,
05:14which is a general bill that allows victims of sexual harassment to go to a tribunal in which that they can actually request for their perpetrator and them to be judged by five juries.
05:27And then, they can keep their identities anonymous.
05:30Because if you actually sue someone, you have to publicize your identity, right?
05:35So, that is what the anti-sexual harassment bill.
05:37And that is a win by itself.
05:39However, we do not have a specific policy for sexual harassment in schools.
05:43In schools, yeah.
05:44So, that is what we are asking for, for young children who might not have access to go to the tribunal, right?
05:49Okay.
05:49And then, thirdly, one of it was also the psychosocial and mental well-being of the teachers as well as the students in school.
06:00So, currently, we have the ratio of one counsellor for 500 students.
06:06Oh, wow.
06:06Can you imagine the sort of burden that, you know, is being held by the counsellor?
06:11And, of course, even for the student themselves, they feel like they can't tell.
06:14The counsellor is the last person that they want to tell.
06:16So, right now, one of the ask for us is as well to make sure that the ratio is at least one counsellor for 250 students.
06:24Yeah.
06:24So, that's one of the main ones.
06:26And then, at the end of the day, for these 11 demands to be fulfilled by the Ministry of Education within 30 days.
06:33And if not, she would have to be respectfully to be asked to be resigned because of the inability to handle the safety school crisis.
06:40OK. And, it's interesting because you said that it's a 30-day deadline, right?
06:47And you mentioned just now that you, actually, you only started, you only handed over the memorandum on the 22nd, right?
06:54Yeah.
06:54So, today is 27th. That's about, it's about a week or so.
06:59So, how was the reaction from the Education Minister, YB Fadlina, to you and your group and during the protests?
07:08So, the thing is, I think I have to preface that this was not a political move and it was not supposed to be anything like that.
07:14I think, collectively, I have to give credit to the Minister herself and us is that we all wanted for the best for students,
07:21the safety of young people in our national school system.
07:24And so, what we wanted was that, why we put the demand for her as a nation is because we think that this is something that is so important.
07:34And, all this while, we've been thinking of solutions and now that we've provided the solution, what is the buffer?
07:41What is the buffer of you needing to implement those policy solutions, right?
07:46Because, I've been advocating for this for the past four years or so and now that, you know, we needed to walk to the parliament.
07:53And, the thing is, on the day of the parliament, on the day of the walk itself, on the demonstration itself,
07:58there were two young people, young children, aged 14 and 16-year-old, who also walked and marched together with us.
08:06So, if young people were that serious about the safety of school crisis to go and walk there,
08:12so, what is such, like, how hard is it for you as a minister to actually implement these policies,
08:19if young people are that dedicated to the cause?
08:21But, I think that I'm thankful for the Ministry of Education, YBF, for the fact that she was willing to come that day and meet us
08:30because I think I texted her the day before and, like, just asking to please, please come down and accept our memorandum
08:37because my friends that actually went down, there were actually two previous occurrences of them wanting to send over the memorandum,
08:44but she didn't come down. But, however, this time, under the formal front of the Secretary at Sekolah Selamat,
08:49she actually came down and accepted the memorandum.
08:51And, I think, during that time when I was actually talking to her, I was telling her, like, YB, I think we both know.
08:57And, I actually knew her even before that, like, before she became Minister of Education.
09:02So, I actually met her once and she was so, she was so, I would say, supportive of my cause.
09:08So, I think that, to this day, it's, I think we just need to show how dedicated,
09:14how dedicated the young people, the NGOs, the students, and also the Ministry is towards actually resolving this problem in our education system.
09:24So, I hope that, you know, she showed her commitment into making sure that all of these 10 demands were implemented.
09:29You know, it's interesting because you're calling for the Minister to step down if all these major key reforms are not implemented, right?
09:41But, do you think it's more of, like, a systemic problem in the system itself?
09:46Like, even if the Minister is able to make changes or, you know, implement things or, you know, like, execute things.
09:54But, do you think it's, like, it goes down back to the ground?
09:57Like, it's the students, it's the teachers, it's the headmaster, it's the parents, like, the whole system itself, the whole environment itself.
10:05Like, you can change the rules, but can you change the people?
10:09So, I think that's why in our demands, it kind of lists out the things like, okay, we have the policies, we change the rules.
10:16The rules in which that, okay, what is the exact rule?
10:19What happens when someone bullies another person, when someone rapes, when someone sexually harasses another person, right?
10:24Then, we change the rules to make sure that there's punishments.
10:27But then, we also change how we educate the people.
10:30And I think that's how we're trying to approach in changing it in a whole, changing it comprehensively, not just through the rules, but also through the young people, through the students, through the teachers.
10:41Because one of the demands that we had was also the comprehensive sex education, which is basically, because when people think of comprehensive sex education, then they think, oh, how to have sex or whatever.
10:52How to do that, like how, oh, this is going to make the youth even more, like, wild.
10:57But no, actually, comprehensive sex education is the topic of teaching how young people respect one another to understand the differences that there exist within genders, to understand the differences that are within one another, and how we can harmoniously coexist and create a safe space within all of us.
11:15So, that's what comprehensive sex education is, and I think that not only just extends to teaching the students, but also teaching the teachers.
11:23So, one of the demands was also requesting training for young teachers to be able to convey comprehensive sex education more better and in a more well-equipped way.
11:32So, I think that is how we want to kind of, like, shift the system as a whole.
11:39So, not only changing the rules, changing the punishments, but also, I think, changing how people think about it.
11:46The mindset to its approach, approach to its sex and everything in between, right?
11:51So, based on your personal experience, right, like, we know what happened in 2021, and we know how the reaction was, especially online, it's terrible.
12:00Some people just don't understand how things work.
12:04So, from whatever, from your experience and moving forward, do you think there is a safe area where it can be implemented and executed?
12:16Also, meaning, like, what is executed?
12:19I mean, the education, the change of mindset, you know, just to make people think further beyond what they are used to, accustomed to.
12:30I see.
12:31So, yeah, basically, the stigma surrounding comprehensive sex education really goes deep, right?
12:36Yeah.
12:36Because they think that it goes against our cultural norms.
12:38Yes, yes.
12:39Or what is this?
12:40We, as an Asian culture, Malaysian culture, we don't talk about this, right?
12:44But the fact that we don't talk about it is the reason why sex abuse and sex harassment is so rampant.
12:51And I think how we first approached it was that from our organization, within the Secretariat of Sekolah Selamat, there's this organization, Pocket of Pink.
12:59And what we do is that we developed a module, a comprehensive sex education module, that combines art and cartoons with the topic of sex education.
13:08So, because people always say that, oh, this is too inappropriate for young children.
13:12They're not going to feel comfortable with it.
13:14So, actually, we use really, really cute cartoons.
13:16And then what we do is that teach topics about, like, boundaries and safe touch using a visual element.
13:24So, I think there's definitely a safe way.
13:26And we've actually implemented this with around 700 students ever since we started last year in September 2024 up until now.
13:35So, we already have the modules.
13:37We already have the guidelines on how to implement this safely.
13:39It's just within the political will of us actually implementing it in our national education system.
13:44Okay, it's political will.
13:46At the end of the day, it's how you reach the people, right?
13:50Yeah.
13:51So, the memorandum also calls for major legal changes, including the National Anti-Bullying Act and also a safe school commission under the parliament.
14:00So, some might say they are too ambitious because it's major and it involves the parliament and law changes.
14:09How realistic is it for such reforms to happen within this government's term?
14:17So, I think that what we mean by melunaskan the 11 demands, right, is the fact that she needs to show her commitment or not just she.
14:26The Ministry of Education needs to show their commitment in announcing these reforms to bring it up in parliament.
14:33But until now, if we don't even hear it mentioned in parliament, then like how you can talk about implementation, right?
14:39And within 30 days, that is something that is completely possible to be announcing, to be discussing these problems in parliament.
14:46So, I think that was what we were looking for.
14:48The commitment towards we will implement this throughout the time within the 30 days.
14:55We will announce this.
14:56We will commit to this cause and then for them to implement it throughout that other time, right?
15:01So, I mean, by the end of 30 days, what we want to see is the commitment of the Ministry of Education into actually announcing their accountability into the safety school crisis.
15:11So, we have a safety school crisis.
15:13What will you do?
15:14So, we will implement these 11 demands from these NGO coalitions of young people who actually care about making school a safer place.
15:21You know, it's interesting because these demands are made by young people who are in possible danger of this whole system, right?
15:28So, what's your...
15:31I mean, I'm pretty sure since the Zara case up till now, these are the major cases that has happened for the past one year.
15:38Like, what was your reaction or what was the response you received by the people on the ground?
15:44Because you are memang the face of making school a safer place, right?
15:48Like, when they met you, when you met with the people in schools, what were they telling you?
15:53Yeah.
15:54I...
15:55This...
15:56Honestly, when I first heard of the cases, I felt sad.
15:59We lost yet another life.
16:02Another life is yet ruined by the inability of our education system to protect the students in its care.
16:08But what I was hearing from people on the ground was that, you know, they were saying, oh, this is what happens when you, like, you know, because we ignored the root cause, which was, you know, rape jokes, which was the normalization of violence.
16:23So, then, nowadays, we're actually just seeing the result of decades, I think, decades of rot in our education system.
16:33And, honestly, I think that this has always been happening.
16:36But now that we have, actually, the social media, we have the awareness to see that these things have been happening in our education system.
16:45And then, another thing was that, I think that that's why I was so angry to, or I was so sad and frustrated to listen to one of the solutions being caning.
16:57Because I just thought, like, wow, our children are already facing so much violence and then you want to, you know, enforce more violence, right?
17:06And, in my opinion, that's...
17:07I mean, you might be able to, I think, you might be able to disincentivize a couple of naughty kids around, right?
17:15But these kids that, the violence that was happening was murder, was stabbing, was rape.
17:22A couple of caning is not going to resolve the root cause, which is denormalization of violence happening.
17:27And, the thing is, I think the caning solution also kind of puts all of the blame onto our children, kind of put all of the blame to youth.
17:34Because, oh, we need to cane these youth to, like, put them back into place.
17:38But, sexual harassment cases are happening between teachers to our students.
17:41We're happening between guards.
17:44Like, the recent case was guards within...
17:45The couple, right?
17:46Yeah, the couple.
17:47So, what?
17:48Are we going to cane these guards?
17:50Are we going to cane the teachers?
17:51And that's how we're going to resolve our problems?
17:54If you want to talk about caning, it shouldn't just be...
17:57The students should be the teachers and the adults who are, like, doing it, right?
18:00Like, public caning or something.
18:02So, you know, caning is not a comprehensive, I think, approach towards a problem.
18:09And, I think, what I heard from people on the ground was the fact that, yes, it is a systemic problem.
18:14It is a mindset problem.
18:16We need to change it in our education system.
18:18We should look through all of these subjects and see what has gone wrong there.
18:22Because, I think, quite recently, she also mentioned she wanted to have the pendidikan character, right?
18:26But, the pendidikan character is technically, you're just slapping a band-aid on top of a rotting wound.
18:33Because, the problem is that, in our subject, the syllabus itself, you can imagine, in our Bahasa Melayu,
18:40Tingkatan Tiga textbook actually talks about sexual abuse and sexual harassment.
18:45And, they say that the root cause of rape or sexual abuse happening is because of the victim not covering up, because of the clothes.
18:52Are you serious? In the book itself?
18:54Yes. And, then, it says that the consequences of sexual harassment is that the victim will feel ashamed, will be thrown, will be isolated from society.
19:04That's victim blaming.
19:05Okay, to be fair, I've been away from school for the longest time.
19:08I'm not that young.
19:09So, I am totally unaware of what is actually in?
19:15In the syllabus, in the education system.
19:17So, if you have all these conflicting things, how is adding pendidikan character going to resolve any of it?
19:24You're telling me that the book actually is victim-based?
19:27Yes, I can share you the picture.
19:29Okay, you shall share with me after this.
19:31But, that's insane.
19:32Like, why would they, wasn't, was there no, like, addressing the perpetrators?
19:37It actually went viral a couple of times.
19:39Okay.
19:39Yeah, but, you know, like, the inaction.
19:43That's kind of crazy.
19:44Yeah.
19:45But, yeah.
19:47But, so, that's why, that's why, you know, our, and, and one more is the fact that, you know, we, we having stretched, I think one of the things that really kind of pushed me and my friends towards the move was that the spending of budget towards things that we feel like was, like, okay, it's, it's not a problem for you to spend on, like, a Malaysia pin.
20:08And, then, to make students feel more national.
20:10I don't know how many billions was put into that, right?
20:12But, when we're facing a safety school crisis and children are dying and children are being sexually abused, then that really puts into the question, like, where, it's not that we don't have enough money.
20:25It's not that we don't have enough researchers and policymakers that's working on it.
20:28So, then, what's the key point?
20:30Then, what are we missing to actually resolve this problem?
20:32And, I think that was why young people are so incentivized into taking matters into their own hands.
20:37Okay.
20:38You know, it's interesting.
20:40I want to talk about the dress code for a second.
20:41Yeah.
20:42Because, you mentioned that people are blaming and, you know, we've, we've known this.
20:47People, the first thing people ask is, what were you wearing, right?
20:49So, how can the education ministry, I would say, shift the mindset that clothes don't matter what you're dressed?
21:01Because, boys are getting raped.
21:03Boys are getting raped.
21:04Yeah.
21:05And, not, it's not just some naughty urban schools.
21:11These are, like, religious schools as well.
21:14Yeah.
21:14And, a lot of people forget that.
21:16Only when big cases happen that people raise it.
21:20So, like, where does this lead for you guys?
21:23Like, meaning to say, we're talking about safety in schools, but is there any, like, gap when it comes to urban, urban, urban and rural education?
21:34Or, awareness?
21:36Actually, now, I think it's a pandemic throughout the urban and rural geographic.
21:43I don't think there's any geographic difference.
21:46I feel like it might happen because of different things.
21:51Like, maybe, like, the urban kids are, you know, because we have working parents and we might not have enough attention at home.
21:57Or, for the rural kids, it might be a bit more because of, like, the cultural norms, like, more patriarchal norms, right?
22:04Yes.
22:05There might be differences.
22:06But, however, it's undeniable that the rate of violence is quite similar.
22:10Yeah.
22:10So, I think that, however, this takes a much more nuanced approach, right, towards the rural and urban areas.
22:16But, I think, regardless, there is still some blanket areas in which that everything can be resolved.
22:23Like, for example, like, what you mentioned, how can the Ministry of Education fix the mindsets regarding blaming victims or, like, asking what were you wearing and the sort of dress codes.
22:33Like, apparently, like, how they dress actually lead to sexual violence.
22:37Because, I think, I mean, in schools, they're already wearing baju kurung.
22:40Yeah.
22:41And, we're already wearing, like, tudung and everything.
22:43And, I mean, like, that should not be what our, what is justified, like, what should be used to justify sexual harassment or sexual abuse.
22:53And, I mean, maybe the first step they can do is take that page out of the Bahasa Melayu, Tingkatan Tiga book that is blaming, victim-blaming the students.
23:00That is, like, that is actively ingraining rape culture into our students.
23:06And, basically, what rape culture means is that, you know, when you make rape jokes normal, when you blame how victims dress.
23:14Because, at the end of the day, violence is violence.
23:16Nobody deserves violence, no matter who they are, right?
23:19Yeah.
23:20Exactly.
23:20And, talking on that, alright.
23:22Do you, do you, do you have, do you get responses from when you go to school, or when you do projects, or you go to the ground as well?
23:30I'm asking again.
23:31Like, who comes to you to complain about their safety?
23:36So, actually, a lot of it is, like, young children.
23:41As young as, like, primary school?
23:43Because our, the age of the programs that we do are 9 into 12.
23:47Okay.
23:47So, they're quite young.
23:48However, in some, like, sometimes we do in, like, community-based areas, like, for example, PPR or something like that, they can be as young as 7.
23:56But, the complaints that we've been hearing are from young children, really, really young children, 9 into 12, right?
24:02And, actually, they're already well aware that it's, like, sexual abuse and sexual harassment.
24:07However, they say that, oh, this is actually happening to me by my teacher.
24:11I don't know what to do about it.
24:13Or, this is happening to me by my friend.
24:16And, not only complaining, sometimes they don't know what's happening to them.
24:20Okay.
24:20And, when we teach them the, what's, you know, teach them what's, what is bad, what is wrong.
24:25Yeah, what is good, what is bad.
24:26And, they're like, oh, actually, I thought I was just playing with my friends.
24:30And, it turns out it's sexually, sexual, yeah, sexual misconduct.
24:36So, these, it's, it's happening, from, from my own experience of the organization, it's happening to children as young as young as 9 to 12.
24:44However, you know, when you go onto social media, you see so many much more teenagers talking about it.
24:49So, I think that this is a problem.
24:52It's happening to everyone, to every student in the school, regardless of their age, regardless of their gender as well.
24:59Because, we also had, like, complaints from, like, boys that said that they've gone through sexual harassment.
25:04And, I think this is, like, the, sort of, like, kind of, um, misunderstanding is that, oh, these are happening only to boys, but, uh, only to girls.
25:12But, actually, happening to boys.
25:13And, they actually face a lot more criticism.
25:16Because, oh, you're a boy.
25:17Like, oh, you're supposed to like it.
25:18Yeah, yeah.
25:19So, those are the side problems.
25:21But, how do you feel when, you know, when there's a police statement, or when there's a report, and people are like, oh, no, this is suka sama suka.
25:28They love to put that out.
25:30Like, maybe, towards the end, it becomes, I don't know.
25:34But, what I'm saying is, people aren't aware what is patut and what is tak patut.
25:39So, that leads to things to further progress.
25:43So, like, what's your take on when the men, or the authorities, I'm sorry, I don't want to say men, but authorities in general, are normalizing the fact that, you know, it's consensual.
25:54Even though it's illegal, it's consensual.
25:56Like, how do you feel about that?
25:57So, I think that, um, when they mention that, they need to understand, like, why it's said, why people under the age of 17 or 18 cannot give consent in the first place.
26:08Exactly.
26:09It's, um, it's statutory rape because there is, there is clearly power dynamics at hand, which is why young people cannot, or, like, young girls cannot give consent.
26:19And why it's classified as rape is to protect the young person.
26:22Yeah.
26:23And, we also need to analyze, like, where does it come from that you're saying, oh, it's suka sama suka.
26:29Because it's trying to disvalidate the violence that is happening in schools.
26:33Because, usually, um, when, you know, I talk about the fact that we need comprehensive sex education,
26:37we need to make sure that there are policies that, um, clearly address sexual harassment and bullying.
26:43Then, they're saying, like, they just point out to these, like, one or two cases.
26:46And they're like, oh, this is suka sama suka.
26:49And I'm like, but that's, the thing is, first, it's statutory rape.
26:53And secondly, that's, like, in minority of cases.
26:56Most of them are, like, where the minor don't even give consent, per se.
27:00And, like, okay, there's been numerous, multiple cases as well for the past few weeks where students or maybe teenagers are the ones creating content,
27:11sexual pornographic content, material, and selling it.
27:16And, I mean, for me, it's under Sexual Offenses Act.
27:20It's quite clear.
27:20It's illegal.
27:21But, regardless how old you are, um, but how do you feel when students are actually doing this for business?
27:28Like, do you, do you, and also at a point where, like, people are saying, you know, social media should be banned for teenagers.
27:35Like, where, like, okay, like, teenagers are discovering it online and they are using this to their benefits to do business and get money.
27:43But, like, what in the world is happening there?
27:45Okay, so the thing is, young people are going to find out about sex regardless whether, you know, you might say, okay, like, you're trying to protect them.
27:53So, the existence of comprehensive sex education is so that kids who are curious about it, it's human, who are curious about it, find it from the right source.
28:03On cartoons pun ada, kan?
28:04On Netflix, it's everywhere, right?
28:06Find it from the right source because they're going to find out about the wrong source.
28:10Yes.
28:10And then, that's going to warp their perception of what it is, make unhealthy habits, which is currently what we're seeing now, right?
28:17Yes.
28:17Um, and I think that, honestly, when we talk about the fact that the dispersion of sexual content, um, pornographic content is, you know, being done by youth,
28:26I think it's also a very multifaceted issue as well because then it's not only, like, um, you know, the normalization of, like, uh, like, um, sexual misconduct in school,
28:38but it's also the welfare of students generally in our schools, right?
28:44Uh, because right now, our teachers are sort of facing a stretched, they're being stretched out.
28:50Um, one teacher needs to take care of around, like, 40 students.
28:54Yeah.
28:54And then, you know, these, like, these students, they might be facing, like, you know, I don't know, poverty, they might be facing some kind of, like, exploitation.
29:02Yeah.
29:02And when the school is generally supposed to be a standardized place where the welfare of a child is being taken care of.
29:09And these sort of things, they can have intervention.
29:11If you were, for example, instead of taking care of, if you were a teacher and instead of being forced to take care of 40 students,
29:17if you only take care of five, you'll be able to notice instantly when a child is, like, going through these conflicts,
29:23which might be able to reduce these sort of, like, really exceptional cases, I feel, that's currently happening.
29:29Because, usually, I mean, not trying to justify what they did, but it does come from multifaceted issues.
29:37Factors.
29:37The factors.
29:38You know, like, not being, uh, the mental, the mental well-being, the poverty issue, um, lack of exposure towards sex education.
29:49So, those are the sort of things that I feel, like, would take some time to do, but at least for now, if we manage to take care of,
29:56if we manage to provide, uh, comprehensive, um, information around how to, uh, how to help, like, you know, like, sex education and consent and autonomy,
30:06then we will be able to reduce these sort of things.
30:10Okay.
30:10Yeah.
30:10All right.
30:11So, I think, like, uh, we're gonna jump to our final few questions.
30:15Um, on school administrators prioritize reputation over justice in schools.
30:24Like, they're too busy taking care of their reputation.
30:27They're not focusing on the victim or they're not focusing on making sure justice is given.
30:32I'm, I'm not saying, I'm not putting a blanket here.
30:34I'm just, in general, there is always the sentiment, right?
30:37By the authorities.
30:39How do you propose we change this culture of denial and victim-blaming in schools?
30:46Like, do you need stronger parents, stronger PIBG, or do you need stronger students themselves?
30:54What, what's, because clearly, if it's just one person on top says no, everybody follows.
31:00So, how?
31:01I think, um, definitely for the parent part, it's necessary.
31:04And I think I forgot also to add, like, for the 16 social media, 16-year-old social media band.
31:09I think, yeah, that one is, it's honestly, it's quite, like, uh, I don't think that's
31:15the root cause either.
31:16Okay.
31:17Because, like, children are progressing.
31:19Like, they're going to be able to, um, be much more advanced in terms of us, in terms
31:23of technology.
31:24And I mean, it's, like, they're, like, saying as if, like, we didn't have any sexual abuse
31:28or sexual harassment before social media.
31:30Exactly.
31:31And we did.
31:31It was even worse back then, right?
31:33So, I don't think that's the root cause.
31:34But then, touching on your point regarding the parents, parents definitely need to be
31:38able to, you know, put more, I think what we're lacking inside our education system is
31:43definitely the emotional factor.
31:45Okay.
31:45The emotional well-being and the mental well-being of the student themselves.
31:48So, um, parents are, like, naturally supposed to fulfill that, right?
31:54But, um, and, yeah, it's supposed to encourage them.
31:57Can I ask you, like, sometimes parents are the ones so busy on social media, they're not
32:01paying attention to the children.
32:01I mean, I'm not over-generalizing this, but there are instances where, you know.
32:09Yeah, yeah.
32:09And that is true.
32:11However, I think why I put so much emphasis on the school instead of parents is because
32:16there are some orphans out there.
32:18There are some children in broken houses.
32:20How do we take care of every child, kan?
32:23Yeah.
32:23So, I think that's why it's so hard to change, like, how parents are.
32:27We can generally put more awareness and emphasis on that.
32:30But, however, the education system provides a kind of, like, landing.
32:34Yeah, it's a landing spot.
32:36It's a landing spot for every child, regardless where they come from.
32:38It should be safe.
32:40It should be where you go to look forward to.
32:42And you should know that there are people there to protect you if anything bad happens outside, right?
32:48Yeah, exactly.
32:49And that's not happening because of everything.
32:53And I think, like, why, like, the administrators in school also kind of prioritize reputation
33:02sometimes over the well-being of their children, of their students.
33:07There is also, actually, in our system itself, there is a sort of, like, benefit that you get
33:13if the school merit is high.
33:15And the thing is, the school merit is also, it's defined by a lot of different factors
33:20and, like, criteria that they look through to say that, oh, this is sekolah terbaik daerah,
33:25this is sekolah terbaik negeri.
33:26But one of the factors that they look through is also, like, misconduct.
33:30And one of the things that is classified as misconduct is actually sexual harassment cases
33:35and bullying cases that are happening in school.
33:37So, technically, if they report that a kind of, like, there is a direct systemic sort of, like, lashback,
33:43it's not only just, oh, qualitatively, like, oh, this school's name or ada sexual harassment case
33:49at situ, tapi, like, actually, the merit of the school is affected.
33:52So, the whole system.
33:54So, they cannot call themselves, oh, this, like, it might affect their ranking lah, in terms of that.
33:58And you, you apparently do get, like, some kind of remuneration if your ranking is the highest
34:03in the region during that time.
34:05So, sometimes money works as well.
34:07So, there's a financial incentive as well regarding on why schools, like, prioritize their names.
34:13So, oh, yeah, there was also plans for when bullying was happening.
34:17They mentioned, like, about incentives for the teachers who managed to catch the bullies
34:21a few months back, I think.
34:23Was that, like, what kind of thing?
34:25Yeah, but there's too many things happening at one time, right?
34:29And then, like, I feel like it's kind of, like, putting so much foot on the teachers, right?
34:33Because the teachers, the teachers are, like, the admins.
34:36The teachers are, like, also needed to take care of the students.
34:39And now they need to focus on, like, catching the bullies as well.
34:42So, I think it is, I mean, it is maybe a short-term solution.
34:46However, sustainably, you can't really imagine for a teacher to take on all of that, right?
34:50All of that, yeah.
34:51I think we need to empower our teachers with enough resources and also skill sets.
34:57But then also, we also need to, like, comprehensively see how can the well-being of students,
35:01as well as teachers, as being taken care of without one another being stretched.
35:04Yeah.
35:05Okay.
35:05All right.
35:06So, before we end, I just, like, to ask you, like, moving forward, right?
35:09Because it's already coming to a year end, and, like, we're already entering November in a few days.
35:17It's been a chaotic year for education and schools.
35:21What can we hope for for 2026?
35:26I think what I really hope for to see by 2026, and, you know, after the 30 days, right?
35:32Yeah, yeah.
35:33Okay, let's start with the 30 days first.
35:35Then we go to 2026.
35:35I really hope to be able to see that the Ministry of Education really puts her full dedication and commitment
35:41into fulfilling all of the demands that we have to address the safety school crisis,
35:48to be able to see an education system which is not overstretched in terms of the teachers are well-empowered
35:55and given a lot of resources and trained well, and for the students to be able to feel safe
36:01and not, kind of, like, oppressed in a system in which that totally blames them for the behavior, right?
36:08We don't want to see more teachers caning students.
36:11Like, the problem is not that we want to, like, hit the problem, like, by whacking the mole, right?
36:15But we want to actually resolve it from the root.
36:18So, to be able to see students who can feel safe and voice out to the teachers and teachers
36:25that who can also do the same, and that as a form of intervention without any more violence,
36:32vape, or killings, or murders happening in our education system.
36:35Okay, okay, last one, okay, before we end.
36:38Should social media be banned for teenagers?
36:41To be honest, like, I think...
36:44Or children.
36:45Yeah, to be honest, I think that it's kind of like...
36:48I'm confused on the policies that our government are trying to bring.
36:51Because didn't they just announce that they wanted to bring an AI module in our education system?
36:57Right.
36:58You want to talk about...
36:59You want to teach children about AI, and then you want to ban them from using social media.
37:03You want to ban them from using Instagram.
37:06And let me just say that, actually, for me, the reason why that I feel like I was so, like,
37:12well-informed about things was because of social media.
37:14And I'm sure there's a lot of people out there who had a net positive for social media, right?
37:20It's not just a bad thing, it's a good thing.
37:22But the thing that we should change is the behavior towards social media, not the total banning of it all.
37:27I mean, it's kind of like the same, like, for example, in culinary class, right?
37:31Yes, people have used knives for stabbings.
37:33But do you take away the knife?
37:35Or do you teach them how to use it properly, right?
37:38So that's my opinion.
37:39Can I just share that, like, I grew up in the...
37:43I went to school in the 90s, towards the end of the 2000s.
37:46And social media wasn't that active.
37:48We had social media, but you can only go online where the computer is connected to the internet.
37:52And, like, you're not online 24-7, right?
37:55But, like, we were really exposed to television content, like, American TV shows, Western TV shows, right?
38:02And it was interesting for me that I knew what was wrong and right, regardless at how old I was.
38:08You know, I was watching MTV and all the music videos.
38:10And they're all, like...
38:11I mean, Madonna wasn't that well-dressed.
38:13Or you know Madonna, right?
38:14Yeah, I know.
38:15Okay, like, in general, Britney Spears, Christina...
38:17I mean, if you look at it now, like, I think we're quite desensitized in terms of performance and content that is actually allowed to be absorbed by children.
38:27So, like, it's interesting because, like, I have friends who had no idea this was wrong and that was wrong.
38:32But I was actually aware what was wrong.
38:34At probably 9 or 10, I was aware because I was watching things and I was exposed to things that told me that that's not right.
38:42Or that's okay.
38:43Or clothes don't matter because people will stay right, you.
38:47So, it's kind of, like, an interesting conversation when, like, people just need to know what is right and what is wrong and not be shielded.
38:57Yeah, I think because that's the thing.
38:59We need to build students with values and principles, right?
39:02When we talk about principles, principles are unwavering, regardless of what kind of content you see online.
39:08Like, especially nowadays, you see so much violent content online.
39:11Like, even, you know, just like us, right?
39:14When we see violent content online, we don't feel like stabbing someone.
39:16Exactly.
39:17We feel empathy.
39:18Exactly.
39:18We feel sad.
39:19Exactly.
39:20So, the thing is, it's not whether about the usage of social media, but what have we been teaching our kids that allow them to be...
39:27What kind of values are they?
39:29Indoctrination, I would say.
39:30Whatever goes into your mind.
39:31Like, if you, you know, stabbing is bad.
39:35But if you watch stabbing content, you're like, no, that's wrong and you report it.
39:39Yeah.
39:39But, like, some people are like, yeah, I should go out and do that.
39:41No, that's crazy.
39:42That's wrong.
39:42Like, you're not supposed to do that.
39:44So, in a way, there was something closer within their circle that would have led to the social media.
39:50Because I believe that, yes, social media does change how we view things, how we value things.
39:56But it is an amplifier, not a decider of what values you have.
40:01Okay, that's nice.
40:02Okay, thank you so much, Ayn.
40:03Do you have any final messages to the people watching?
40:06So, make sure to support us from Secretary of State School of Islamat.
40:12And I think that we really need to push for a safer school now.
40:16So, I hope that we, collectively, as a society, will push towards, like, making sure that our demands are being taken into consideration and implemented by the Ministry of Education.
40:28All right, thank you so much, Ayn, for coming to Sinar Daily.
40:31I hope we can continue the conversation further.
40:34And I hope everybody is aware of what's happening and is fighting to make sure schools are safe.
40:39Schools are safe for the children, away from violence, bullying, sexual abuse, and everything that comes in between.
40:45Because we want a safe future for the children in Malaysia.
40:49So, I'm Tasin Lokman.
40:50Thank you so much for watching Sinar Daily's top news podcast.
40:53Make sure you follow all Sinar Daily platforms and download our app.
40:55Okay, bye, guys.
40:56Bye, guys.
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