Consider This: Bullying (Part 2) — What Zara’s Case Exposed - Video Dailymotion

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Zara Qairina Mahathir’s death in Sabah in July has turned a spotlight on bullying in schools, exposing not just the violence itself but also the slow and inadequate institutional response. As public anger grows, calls for reform are intensifying: from an Anti-Bullying Act to school-based interventions. On #ConsiderThis we ask what Malaysia must do to make schools safe spaces again, and what lessons Zara’s case leaves us as a nation. Melisa Idris speaks with Ang Shu Yi, founder of Impian Kencana, and an alumna of Teach For Malaysia.

Transcript

00:00Hi, welcome back to Consider This, I'm Melissa Idris. Let's continue our discussion about

00:15bullying in schools. This in light of Zahra Karina Mahathir's death in Sabah in July. Now

00:22Zahra Karina's story has resonated across Malaysia because it reveals not just the cruelty of

00:28bullying, but the culture of silence and inaction that allows for it to persist. Now from teachers

00:34to parents to policymakers to students, the nation is now asking how did we get here and how do we

00:41change course? So joining me on the show to discuss this further is Ang Shuyi, who is the founder of

00:47Impian Kenchana, which is a non-profit that works with teens from underserved communities to help

00:52them build resilience and character and essential life skills, all of which are critical to navigate

00:58challenges like bullying and peer pressure. So she's also an alumna of Teach for Malaysia with a

01:04perspective of what happens in classrooms in Malaysia. So Shuyi, thank you so much for being

01:09on the show with me today. I appreciate you taking time to talk to us. You have worked closely with

01:15teens from vulnerable backgrounds and when it comes to bullying, I'm curious to know what you're seeing.

01:21What is it that you're seeing most often on the ground?

01:26The case I see most often is actually verbal and social bullying, like meme calling, exclusion,

01:34gossips. A lot of them actually look like less serious or parents or adults with this means as

01:44you know, kids just being kids rather than physical bullying. So it actually, but what I see is actually

01:50really, really ease away the child's confidence. Sometimes they would, as time passed, they would

01:56actually really believe in those cruel words and it really affect their self-belief. And if you ask me

02:06from what I have interacted with the kids, they feel anxious having to socialize with others and

02:13they become withdrawal, like they want to stop interacting with these kids who are mean to them.

02:20And that would indirectly affect their attendance in school. And very likely, you know, they will tell

02:25their parents that I don't want to go to school. And that's it, like they might drop out of school.

02:30Oh dear. That's really worrying to hear that this could affect their long-term trajectory in terms of

02:41education. Can you talk to me a little bit about what you have observed? Now, I want to look at it from

02:50different perspectives and talk about the bullies experience. Bullies are often struggling children

02:57themselves. And I am curious to know what you have observed. What do you think are some of the

03:02root causes or common root causes of bullying? Yeah. So in my teaching years as a Teach for

03:10Malaysia Fellow in 2017-2018, I was teaching a school in Pasenggudang and I was working with kids

03:17from a very challenging background. And during my house visit, I found out that a lot of these kids

03:23who are labelled as bullies, they all had a history of pain. They come from families of trauma. A lot of them

03:35are often neglected at home. So yeah, whenever I talk about bullies, this boy came to my mind.

03:42He was 14 years old when I met him and he was labelled as the biggest bullies in my school. When I

03:47visited his house, I found out that he was blamed for his father's death because there were

03:53probably right before his father got a heart attack and the elder brother was very abusive towards him.

04:01The mum and the elder sister treated him as an outcast. So I couldn't imagine what was the life

04:09that he was living in before he turned himself to become a monster. Yeah, so that was him. Another

04:18girl I met when she was 15, she was the Taika Chie in school. Everyone was afraid of her. She was pulling

04:24girls' hair, you know, like she would punch people, you know, like as a girl. But when I visited her house,

04:33she was staying with the grandmother at the time. I found out that both her parents were in prison

04:39and now she grew up being passed from one relative to another. So if you ask me what's the common cause

04:46of bullying? If you are an educator, you would know that there's a Maslow hierarchy of needs. I think

04:55that basic needs are not met. The needs for love, attention, care, belonging. Yeah, so because they are hurt

05:04themselves, so they hurt others. Yeah, so because so much of bullying is shaped by what children see at

05:13home, by what they see in their communities, can schools then realistically respond to that? Is that

05:22something that schools can be able, will be able to respond to if so much of how bullying is shaped

05:31is beyond the classroom? Realistically, I do not think so. I think school, it is unfair to expect school

05:44to fix everything. But school can be the place where interventions can happen. So it took me a while

05:52before the two bullies opened up to me and agreed to me that they will stop causing harm to the others.

06:00However, that took quite some effort and time from the teacher. Yeah, so teachers can notice early

06:09warnings or signs and create a safe space for these kids to open up or a safe reporting system so that

06:19bystanders feel that they won't be attacked by these bullies. Like how do we create a safe reporting

06:26system for observers? And how do we model empathy? A lot of the time when the bullies understand that

06:34they are causing harm to others, they are agreeable to stop doing it. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, so school can

06:44change, cannot change home, but they can give children a different experience of what respect and kindness can

06:51look like. You mentioned bystanders, the culture, the active bystander culture. Talk to me a little

07:00bit about what students themselves can do or the role that they can play in creating safer school cultures.

07:07Have you, because of your work with Impian Kencana, you've talked to teens from vulnerable backgrounds,

07:14what has worked best in your experience about what it takes to build this culture, this courage, I must also

07:22say, of empathy and ability to speak out when they see bullying take place? Yeah. One thing that really

07:33worked in our workshop is role play. So what's better than teaching them the action than getting them to

07:42experience the holding themselves, getting them to play victim, play bullies. So in the classroom,

07:51very common, every day when we meet the students, they would name call their friends. And when we

07:56caught it, we would immediately stop the session and ask them, how do you feel? Okay, you don't feel

08:01good. Why do you do it to others? And then they will say, they are being caught that as well. And we try to

08:07help them see that even though this is the norms, but this is not the right way. Yeah. So I would say,

08:16role play like empathy workshops, getting them to really understand the impact of their actions or

08:23words, even though they do not have the intent, separating the intent and the impact and helping

08:27them to understand that your norms doesn't have to be you. You define who you are, who you want to be,

08:34and you do not have to follow what's around you. And yeah, yeah, first, when that happened, we will

08:40tell them all of you who are witnessing this, you did not stand up for this. Why? Why do you allow

08:47this to happen? Why do you allow this to be your culture? So we try to help them understand that

08:52it's not right to stay silent either, because when you allow this to happen, meaning you actually allow

08:58this to be your culture, you think that this is normal, but it's not, you actually don't like this from

09:03happening. How can you stick up for, for the right thing? So we, we, this is what we always

09:13remind them every lesson. So we have, so with this new PPR that we are in, it's been six, seven

09:19workshops. Until now, we are still reminding them of the same thing, like the way you talk to each

09:24other, the way you interact, how to be respectful, how to not name call each other. Yeah. Do you think, um,

09:31it's working? Have you seen these types of, uh, interventions, uh, work in helping them change

09:37their mind, their mindset, their behavior? Yeah. So in fact, Conchana has been running for

09:43fifth year now. So this, the, the, the fourth or fifth community that we went into. Previously,

09:48we were in another PPR in Shah Alam. So we were there for like three years. And towards the end of the

09:53third year, the students have changed so much. Um, yeah, even the parents actually, it was, uh,

09:59the testimonial actually came from the parents and the teachers. So one of the parents actually called

10:04me, uh, last year, or early this year, asking me, or thanking me, actually, uh, thanking me that,

10:10you know, we have the program at the PPR because the kids managed to get into MRSM. And the children,

10:16uh, the, the, the boy, uh, himself were leading the team in workshop and were getting the students to

10:24present. And, uh, when the teacher asks him, where do you learn all of this from? And the

10:29students mentioned impact each other. So, um, I think it, it takes a longer term intervention

10:36before kids can change their mindset, but I think it's definitely doable.

10:42That's wonderful building, um, building the foundations of this. You've created a, a little

10:49community leader in his own right, in his little environment as well. Um, and I'm glad you talked

10:56about the long-term interventions. I want to talk about the harsher interventions because there's a

11:00lot of focus now on whether or not Malaysia should introduce an anti-bullying act. So specific legislation

11:07that defines and punishes a bullying from your ground level experience. I'm just wondering what this,

11:14how you see this. Do you think that legislation can meaningfully change what happens in schools?

11:21Or, um, do we go the approach of, in Piancon China, for instance, the softer skills approach,

11:27the building resilience and empathy approach, changing culture?

11:34Legislation can send an important message that bullying is not trivial. It's a serious issue. But

11:42in my opinion, I think laws alone cannot change the culture. Bullying is the culture. How do we

11:48change this culture of bullying? If we rely only on punishment, we risk creating fear, but not change.

11:57Yeah. What we need is both strong policy to protect the victims and cultural change to make sure that

12:05kindness is the norm. Yeah. So, yes, an act can be a step forward, but it must be paired with

12:15rehab for the bullies, support for the victims, and an education for everyone.

12:22Can I just ask you for your takeaway message? I mean, Shuyu, if you were to give a message to

12:29students and parents and educators alike about what they can do to prevent and also to respond to

12:37bullying, what message would you like to leave them with to break the cycle of bullying, the culture of bullying?

12:42To parents and teachers, I think it's important to dismiss bullying as kids being kids,

12:52because the scars can last a lifetime. And to young people, speak up, stand up for each other,

13:01and remember that every bully has a story, and every victim has the right to feel safe.

13:08Shuyu, thank you so much for being on the show with me today. I appreciate your time.

13:13Ang Shuyu, the founder of Impian Kencana, wrapping up this episode of Consider This.

13:19I'm Melissa Idris, signing up for the evening. Thank you so much for watching. Good night.

13:38Awesome.

13:39We'll go to the next episode of the interview.

13:47.

13:52.

13:55.

13:59.

14:01.

14:03.

14:04.

14:05.

14:07.

Consider This: Bullying (Part 2) — What Zara’s Case Exposed

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