1000 Stunden Hassliebe: Warum ausgerechnet wütende Fans jetzt die größte Hoffnung für Dune: Awakening sind

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Klartext zu Dune: Awakening ! Community Director Joel Bylos spricht im Interview über wütende Fans, Endgame-Frust und den emotionalen Rettungsplan für Arrakis. Alle Infos zur Zukunft des Spiels live aufgezeichnet auf unserer großen FYNG-gamescom-Bühne.

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00:00Dune Awakening ist seit knapp zwei Monaten draußen und Dune Awakening ist es gelungen eine große

00:18Spielerzahl zu begeistern, mehr als jedes andere Funcom-Spiel zuvor. Dune Awakening hat aber auch

00:26sehr viele Themen, die gerade in der Community heiß diskutiert werden und zum Glück Entwickler,

00:31die sehr offen darüber sprechen und genau das werden wir heute tun mit dem Game Director Joel

00:37Byles, der hier zu Gast ist bei uns. Nice to have you Joel, thanks for coming. Thank you very much for having me, great to talk to you.

00:43Und auch wieder dabei natürlich mein MMO-Experte für Dune Awakening, World of Warcraft und ganz viele

00:50andere Spiele, Benedikt Rothaus. Schön, dass du auch wieder da bist. So Joel, it has been almost like two

00:57months since release, little more than two months actually and you guys are communicating very openly

01:05about everything going on in the game so it's going to be a good talk I think. But first just let me know

01:12what's going through your head right now. The game started immensely successful I think it was your

01:16biggest success so far in terms of a player base. What's going on? What do you feel?

01:23Well, I mean there's always this big stress leading into the launch and you don't really know what's

01:28going to happen. Yeah. And then things sort of went okay. I think so. It's good. And what we're

01:34seeing now with the game which is kind of exciting but also kind of stressful for me is like

01:39people are very addicted and they're playing the game a lot and then they're running out of things to do.

01:45Yeah. Then they're getting mad and then they're going to steam and downrating the game. So now

01:49I need to fix that. Yeah. It's like 160 hours played. Nothing to do in this game. Don't like it.

01:57Yeah. I saw one review on steam. 1000 hours played. Yeah. This game sucks. And I did the calculation.

02:05That guy's been playing 12 hours a day since we launched. So okay. It's okay. He got his 50 dollars worth.

02:12It's always this weird relationship that people get with MMOs. You know it also that

02:18you get so passionate, you complain about things and you don't see that actually you kind of love

02:23this game and that's why you're mad. But it's like a breakup, right? Yeah. You were together with this

02:28thing that you loved. Yeah. And then it kind of ended badly. Yeah. And then you end up hating it. And

02:32what's bad for you is I also kind of are in this boat. So I also have a lot of questions,

02:38but I'm still playing and having fun, of course. But I think we have a lot to talk about though.

02:43Perfect. And you guys just released this big plan for the future. What you guys want to do,

02:49what you guys want to address in the game. Since it just came out, would you like to summarize it a little

02:56bit? Like what are the things you guys are mainly focusing on for the near future, let's say? Sure.

03:02So starting in a few days, we have this event beginning in the game, which leads into our chapter

03:09two update. Our chapter two update has two sections. There's free content, continuing the main storyline,

03:16dynamic events in the world, new quest lines for players to explore. And then we have the paid DLC,

03:24which is another set of quests, some new dungeons and cosmetic rewards, including a new vehicle,

03:30which we call the Treadwheel. So that's the very short term. And then beyond that, because we launched

03:35the game, we're now looking at the end game and how people are reacting to the way that the end game

03:39was. And we're working, building out the plan for how we're going to expand on the end game. We're going

03:44to work towards making more PvE activities for people in the end game. And we're going to push the deep

03:49desert back towards what it was originally intended to be, which is this PvP sandbox.

03:54So kind of separating the two types of players so that they don't get angry at each other and at us,

03:59and then kind of giving them their own paths of progression through the game.

04:03I mean, this probably is like the hardest part to manage these expectations of the two player bases,

04:08because you can see it on Reddit all the time. Yes.

04:11Half of the players are saying like, we want PvP, we don't want these PvE players to go to the places

04:17where it has been PvP only. And on the other hand, PvE players are like, okay,

04:23I don't want to do PvP. So yeah, you guys sort of like got the hardest job ahead of you guys to

04:31find stuff to do for both of these people, right? Yeah, it's a challenge, but it's kind of fun as

04:36well. Because when the game is out, you get to work with them. So you actually see what players

04:42change in real time when you put an update out and they react, you know what to do, you know what to

04:45change. So it's kind of, I think it's fine. It's like a little bit scary. And of course, I'm not super

04:51happy about getting thumbs down all the time on Steam. But at the end of the day, the reality is,

04:55you just got to keep pushing forward and working to try and get through these things.

04:58Yeah. But did I read that right that you guys in terms of the deep desert, which was like what you

05:05changed, you made a half of it PvE, are you going back on that and you're sending PvE players to a

05:12different part of the game? Not until we fix activities for the PvE players. Once we get the

05:18PvE players to have the right amount of activities in other places, then we can think about bringing

05:24in the deep desert back up towards what it was originally intended to be. So we will fix the

05:29end game for PvE players first before we make any changes like that, just so no one gets worried that

05:34one day they're going to wake up and they're in a PvP zone. Yeah. So how's the end game loop going to be

05:39changing in chapter two? In chapter three? Two. Chapter two. The end game loop doesn't have much

05:45in chapter two, to be honest, because the development of chapter two was started before we launched.

05:50So there was a plan, we're working towards that. So I think the only thing that you'll find in chapter

05:54two that really pertains to end game, I mean we are making small changes, like we're increasing

05:59vehicle storage, so getting in and out of the desert is easier. We're changing a few things, we're

06:03working on a salvage system for vehicles, so once your vehicle gets destroyed or if it goes down and

06:08goes missing, you can bring it back to where you are and either repair it or, you know, quickly get back

06:14up and running. But chapter two is... I need to stop you right there because that's big news. Yeah, yeah.

06:19So if it gets shut down, you can get it back for like a fee and then repair it so you don't lose

06:25it in that... Yes, that is the plan. We're going to add this salvage system probably to the vehicle

06:29backup tool that allows you to like summon a broken vehicle or... So it will be broken but you can still

06:36repair it. I mean it might not be broken, right? You can summon it if you've lost it. Yeah, okay.

06:39So that's kind of the plan. We're going to have the salvage system coming very soon.

06:43And then... But yeah, chapter two has more content than anything focused on endgame. Chapter three is

06:50where I'm kind of putting all the endgame stuff because obviously that's our next big update, so...

06:55Can I just quick tour to the DLC you also... You also... As far as I saw, you put a quest line in it,

07:04right? In the paid DLC. Yes. Which is quite different than what you did with Conan Exiles.

07:08Yes. Why? Um... Well, one of the things we like to do is like provide people with the value of playing

07:16the game. So cosmetic DLCs are all well and good and there is a cosmetic DLC in the future, but the

07:21idea was we want people to feel like they earn the rewards that they get through the... So all the rewards

07:26are cosmetics, but we want people to feel like they play a quest line that introduces them to why these

07:31cosmetics exist and what they have to do with the world. And we also feel like there's more value

07:37for people playing the game. You know, that's the way we think about it. So yeah, that's kind of it.

07:41I mean, you have battle passes, right? And battle passes exist to make people both play a game

07:46and pay, right? And we were like, well, if we're going to have a DLC, let's try to give people about

07:50eight hours of good content as well. So they feel like they get the money's worth of playtime as well.

07:55So looking at the bigger picture, I mean, this game is such a unique genre mix really between

08:03survival and MMO. And I think you guys really delivered on that. So comparing that with other

08:09theme park MMOs that we know, how are you guys looking to the future to expand on that? Like,

08:15is it going to be in future add-ons? Are you guys adding like a T7, like a T8? So you get another

08:22another bigger type of progression in terms of materials? Are you guys bringing new stories,

08:30new areas to the game? Or is it going to be broader, but T6 is like the peak and it only gets

08:38wider and wider? Like, are you looking for that same progression that theme park MMOs usually do?

08:43I think we'll increase the tiers, yes, over time. What we'll do when we do that is we'll add more tiers and

08:48we'll decrease the grind for the tier 6. So the top tier will always be the hardest to get.

08:53Ah, okay, yeah. So if we add tier 7, then tier 6 will become easier. We'll make

08:58the recipes easier to get, make the resources less intense. But then tier 7 will be the one where

09:03it's more intense. Because the top tier is always intended for guild play, right? People playing in

09:08groups or with big guilds. There is an element of like how we set up rewards in the lands ride that is

09:13coming. Supposed to encourage solo players as well, giving them more daily rewards and for logging in.

09:19More like mission-based, but not contract-based. So yeah, putting them in the lands ride so that

09:25instead of it being this big dump of resources and items, people are actually going and doing

09:29activities in the world to solve the lands ride. So new contracts all the time, so you're not like

09:34done once you're through all of them. Yeah, and you can find different types of contracts. I put some

09:39examples in my post like assassination and things like that. So yeah, it should be hopefully a good

09:45change for the end game. Yeah, I want to really like touch on one thing that you already mentioned.

09:51I was going to ask you this, but then you wrote it yourself. The carrier thopter is going to get

09:55storage module or is going to get like a container. Yeah. So this means we will also be able to

10:03carry stuff with a carrier thopter to the deep desert then, because right now with vehicles it doesn't

10:08work yet. Yeah, it's the vehicle harnessing technology. They turned it off because people

10:14were losing vehicles when they were carrying them harnessed. We're just about ready to turn it back

10:18on. It's almost fixed a hundred percent. So it will come online before the storage container.

10:23That's so cool because we're all dreaming about bringing the sand crawler like from the Hager

10:27Basin to the deep desert on our thopter. And this will also be a container then available.

10:34Yeah, I mean, that was always the plan. It's just that technically we saw right before launch that

10:38there was a submission. So we removed that ability. So yeah, you'll be able to carry this

10:43giant vault with lots of items storage and bring it to the deep desert and drop it down and get all

10:48your stuff out. People will be very happy to hear that, I think. And also this also maybe because

10:53this I think you also took it out in the beta that you could with an assault thopter, for example,

10:59with multiple people across the world. This will also come back at some point. I hope.

11:04Okay. The tech team had those some issues with passengers. Yeah. Right. Falling out of them when

11:10you went to travel. So we decided to just say, okay, no passengers right now. So yeah, hopefully it

11:15comes back when the tech is working as it should. We are making big changes to the tech in the deep

11:20desert. So that's very cool. And another thing in the deep desert that you guys are probably working on

11:26is the draw distance of other players, because that's been an issue. Yeah, if you're because

11:32the idea behind the PvP, of course, is awesome. And you've seen this in games like Sea of Thieves,

11:37where on the horizon there you see another player and you're like, oh, is he coming near us? Is he

11:43staying there? And this will be so cool to have that in Dune Awakening also and not have somebody spawn

11:49like 20 meters in front of you and just bombard you. It's replication, right? It's a quadratic problem in

11:55multiplayer games where you need to replicate the position of everything around somebody to

12:01somebody. And the more players there are, the more players need to know the same information.

12:04So yes, it's an optimization that the guys are working on. And it's exacerbated in Dune,

12:10because if you think about Sea of Thieves, it's kind of on a 2D plane. You're on water and you see a

12:15ship in the distance. But in Dune, the distance between you and the thing, it can still be 500 meters,

12:21but it feels like 20 because he's up here. So he's much closer than it feels. So that's the problem.

12:27So we're optimizing this and it will get longer and longer as we figure it out, right? So that is

12:32definitely ongoing. We'll get better. That's cool. Yeah. So just about, you just said things have

12:39always been planned. There's one thing that players have been noticing for a while now, which is like

12:44that one item slot in your inventory that's always empty and no item goes in there. What's it for?

12:50It's for me to have a slot where I can put a cool item in the future.

12:54That's actually really cool. When we developed the paper doll, I said, leave me a slot.

12:59And they said, why? And I said, because one day I'll find something cool to put in that slot.

13:03And it gives me an opportunity when we come to the expansion and things to add a new item there,

13:06right? And that will increase, you know, you'll be able to build new things.

13:10There's been a discussion about that there has been a kind of a backpack back in like some alphas or betas

13:16or something. Was that a thing actually? A backpack? Yeah, like some some kind of inventory

13:22enlargement stuff that's been going to this lot. No, that's been I've been very clear about this

13:28forever. This sort of game direction on this is when you want to upgrade your inventory,

13:32you use vehicles in our game. So we've never had any any plans to expand the inventory. In fact,

13:38we made it larger during the beta because of feedback people gave us. So it got bigger and bigger.

13:42But we started out with like 15 slots. It was way too small and it got bigger. But no,

13:47the plan was not to add a backpack and all personal inventory because we want people to use the vehicle

13:52system in the game as their inventory. So that myth busted. I actually have a question about the base

13:59permissions because I was wondering about the permission system. If this is like final or if you

14:04guys are working on that also, because I feel like it could be cool to have the ranks a little bit more

14:09customizable. Yes. Because in my in my position, I would like to have some people not be co owners,

14:17but still give them like rooms to customize or have them place like machines. I think there's even

14:24there's even written down for the for the not the co owner, but the partner that they can

14:30place the balls put placeables in the in the base. But this is not at the moment working.

14:35They're not working. Yeah. So yeah. So there are plans to extend on the permission system and try

14:39to improve the way that it works and allow people to set up more custom settings for it. So yes,

14:44that is ongoing. I can't I don't know which like which patch version it's sort of set up for. Yeah,

14:49it'd be one of the things that comes, it won't be something that comes in a big update,

14:52it will come between. It's one of the things the social team is working on.

14:55Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. So about the the bases, one of the biggest issues I think I've been reading

15:01about that we've talked about before is that you lose basically all your stuff when you're being

15:06offline for a month or something. And a lot of players don't tend to come back after that if

15:11they have to start all over again. And I think the biggest problem there isn't losing the base itself,

15:15but everything that's in it too. Is there any better way to solve this? I mean, you can do what Fallout 76

15:23does, which is every time you log out, you take the base with you, and then you have to place it

15:27again every time you log in. You can also do what Once Human does, where everything is collapsible

15:33into a single thing. The biggest issue for us again is because we have live servers and we have

15:38new players coming in, we can't leave a city of bases on Dune, it just looks terrible. And it doesn't

15:45make the new player feel like they have anywhere to build. So we saw this in the beta when we ran these

15:49big beta weekends. So we have to clean up. But one of the things we are doing to tackle this is

15:54we're building out the bank, because there is a bank system in the game where you can leave items.

15:59So we're going to make the bank a lot larger, so people can keep a lot of stuff in there.

16:03You don't lose what your character has on you ever. So if you go away for a few months and come back,

16:08you'll still have everything you're carrying, which can include a blueprint of your base.

16:12And so a lot of the materials and things, you can store all of these things

16:15in your bank. You come back and you kind of get up and running within about half an hour.

16:19That's kind of the goal. But yeah, I agree. It can be a bit rough if you don't realize that this is

16:24going to happen. So that's one of the things we need to be better about communicating. We're also

16:28going to implement, right now we're working on this, a system where people can put their email in.

16:33And then they'll get sent warnings by the game when their base is at risk and that they might lose

16:37their base if they don't come back and refuel. Just to let people know.

16:41I mean, that's cool, but also it might be quite hard to expect from people.

16:46Like if you're gone from the game, you want to keep your base to just log in

16:50like every time, pay taxes and stuff. But like he said, I think the main issue isn't the base

16:56being gone because you guys already improved on the Solido projector that now the base is

17:01saved completely with all the stuff with all the machines and everything. So you can store that,

17:06actually. But I think the problem is losing all the stuff.

17:09It's the materials. Yeah. And that's what the bank and your personal inventory, you should have

17:15enough. But how much larger are we talking then? Can you?

17:18Many slots. Many slots. Many slots and wait.

17:21But it won't be like enough for a single person to hold a whole guild worth of stuff, of course.

17:25But it should be enough to get you up and running fairly quickly though.

17:28But can you, and then can you use the new freight software thing to bring it there?

17:34Yeah. And then, okay, that's good.

17:35And we're also, there's another thing we're going to do, which we call, it's got a terrible name

17:40right now. It's called care packages. But it's just like, if you come back to the game,

17:45after you've been away for six months, you'll be able to claim a package, which checks like what

17:49level you were and gives you kind of the basic setup of items that you would need.

17:53Oh, okay.

17:53So, to help people come back as well. So, that might be good, yeah.

17:57Yeah. So, with all the, with like, or at least some players leaving, are there chances of having

18:01like server mergers or server hops and stuff?

18:05Yeah. So, I mean, we have worlds, right? Worlds and sieges. So, people can jump between any sieges.

18:11So, they can move to a more populated siege right now. The idea is to build in server mergers and

18:16character transfers. So, they're working on that as well on the back end right now. So, we don't have it,

18:20but we're going to get it in, I don't know, within the next few months.

18:23Because, that's also what, what always like, what feels weird to me in 2025, to meet somebody

18:30and be like, oh yeah, we're playing both Dune, let's play together. We can, because we,

18:35at the beginning, we decided for a different world, so we can't play together. So, it would be cool to

18:40have a transfer feature or to have more sieges in the same world. Yes.

18:45Just so it will be available. And you guys also approved on that, I think, because now you can

18:51just, if you want to go to a different siege, you can just put a base there. You're not tied to your

18:56home siege anymore. Yeah, we changed it. It's hard, right? Because, I think the difference between Dune and

19:02and a traditional MMO, it's just the freeform building. Yeah. Right? Being able to build

19:07everywhere. True. And so, and, and that storage is very heavy on the server, right? Yeah. Being able

19:12to replicate all the base pieces to every person who's playing. Yeah.

19:15So, those things make the challenge of like, because most MMOs, like if you leave, you just,

19:20you leave, your stuff is still there, your level's preserved, but you don't lose a base, right? And, and, and

19:25with Dune as well, it's, it's also like being able to move between servers. Let's say you want to move,

19:30but you have a really awesome base and you want to move to another server. Yeah. Do you lose the best

19:34spot on the server in terms of where your base is and stuff? Will you be willing to give it up? That's always the question.

19:40Yeah, I mean, if you move, you should lose it, I think. I know, but it's a, it's a tough discussion.

19:45I should be able to bring my materials with me. That's what I think though. You mean? Yeah, but,

19:53okay. So, um, another thing I was wondering is about, um, like guilds are very, I mean,

19:58they are a big part of the end game, of course, but right now in terms of guild features, there's

20:03not so much going on right now. There's not even like a guild chat system that goes,

20:09uh, that you can like communicate if you're offline. Are you going to expand on the guild

20:15features? Like maybe even give them some leveling options? Because I thought like it would be cool

20:20to level up the guild with the spice, since right now the spice, which is like the most important

20:26thing in the Dune universe, is just used for me to craft stuff. Yeah, right. Wouldn't it also be cool to

20:32like deliver it to the Emperor and then raise, uh, recognition for my guild or something like that,

20:38and then have a more deep guild system? Yeah, I mean, you have it on the screen,

20:43the Landsrad, like showing the guilds that are the top guilds. So one of the things we're going to focus

20:48on is bring in more rewards for the guilds. So guilds can like, for example, the exchange.

20:53Yeah. People have to go to the city right now to use the exchange. But what we'll probably do is add a

20:58way for guilds to get access to an exchange that they can place in their bases. And then people can

21:03go to the exchange in a guild base. So yeah, we are planning on expanding the guild offering in terms

21:08of like both giving them more activities, but also increasing how you can rank up your guilds,

21:12or at least get access to different placeables and rewards for guilds, specifically by competing

21:17in the Landsrad, which is kind of the central political structure there that we're pushing for.

21:21So right now you're featuring that free weekend or free week even for like new players to try and

21:31keep the progress after. I have a few people who want to start now, but they are wondering about how.

21:38What's like the single most or like three most valuable pieces of advice you can give them?

21:43Oh, someone starting the game today. I mean, it's pretty basic. Stay off the sand,

21:49don't get eaten by the sand women. Do not build on the sand. Always a terrible idea.

21:55So many people still do it. It's really funny and also kind of sad.

22:00The second piece of advice I would give is stay out of the sun. Stick to the shade,

22:04maintain water discipline like the Fremen do in the books. Pay attention to the integrity of your

22:10steel suit. You know, keep your water supply up. The third thing I would say is if you really want

22:15to get a flying head start on the game, if you're struggling with combat or anything like that,

22:19take an Ornithopter to the city and buy a weapon from one of the merchants there that might be a

22:25step or two above where you are in the game already. That will make your life easier in combat for a

22:30while. So you can kind of get into maybe a tier or two above by buying a weapon from the city. So right

22:36at the start of the game, you can get a bit of a step ahead in combat. So that's kind of what I would say to

22:41someone brand new to the game. It's actually something I didn't know myself with buying

22:45weapons because usually in MMOs, no vendor ever is useful. Well where else, like it's one thing

22:53that I think is quite different about June. If you start playing the game and you have a friend who's

22:57finished the game, they can give you items and you can use them from day one. There's no level

23:01restriction. So we tried to keep it very open because we want people to play together and that's kind

23:06of one way in which you get sort of guilds are like, oh, we need new blood. Let's introduce some

23:11new players, give them some stuff and get them up and running quickly. Yeah, I actually quite like

23:16that because this is also what happens with me then. A lot of players joined later and we could get

23:21them up to speed quite fast. So that was cool. Yep. One thing that also when you read on Reddit on all the

23:29takes on Deep Desert and stuff, there was one interesting idea also that you mentioned in your post,

23:34I think. People said, why not make the Deep Desert, give it a faction-based PvP? Because then solo

23:42players wouldn't be lost and alone because they could sort of like look, okay, where is my faction

23:48waging war? Where can I probably go and farm some materials behind, before enemy lines? And it wouldn't

23:57be this wild west where large guilds would just shoot you on the spot. I heard you're not planning it for

24:04for the Deep Desert, but you're looking into faction-based PvP modes in a different way. Yeah,

24:11I think we'll do some maps that are faction versus faction on the Overland that aren't the Deep Desert.

24:16The Deep Desert should remain... Like battlegrounds and other, like, arena... Even just like a... I mean,

24:22if you think about the strengths of the game and the kind of thing, it's like, imagine a mini game where,

24:26you know, one of the Atreides need to build a fortress and the Harkonnen need to come and attack the

24:30fortress. Yeah. Right? And so you have a certain amount of time to build the fortress and then

24:34people are going to start coming to attack it. Things like that we can figure out. There's also

24:38a PvE. That's actually a very cool take on how to implement Dune's mechanics into sort of a game

24:45mode, which many MMOs already have. Yeah, exactly. So please do that. Yeah. Just take... Everything just

24:52takes time. Yeah. Like, so it's not... It's not... It's not impossible and we will work on these ideas.

24:57The other... The other side of it, yeah, like there's PvP maps, but we can also do this with PvE maps. So

25:03it can just be the Atreides need to build a fortress and then Harkonnen troops start spawning

25:08that are PvE enemies, right? So it's a horde mode in a way. So we can do things like that for sure.

25:12Yeah, or maybe even like raid stuff. Did you ever think about like raids? Many players going

25:19like a very large... We have these large ships in the air. Why not have them as a raid boss that

25:25people will get to attack with lots of Ornithopters? Or Shai-Halut? Or Shai-Halut himself, because

25:32that would be some payback I was waiting for. So raids are... Mechanically, they rely on having a

25:41certain flow and rhythm to the gameplay. Yeah. Like I've designed raids for MMOs in the past, so I kind of...

25:48I know specifically how this kind of works. The thing is, the combat in Dune is very intensively...

25:54We made it very fast. Yeah. It's very quick. There isn't a lot of like difference between 5%

25:59damage. And if you bring another person, it changes everything. So designing raids will be hard.

26:04Like Destiny can... Destiny has done it, so it's not impossible. But Destiny also like does a lot of

26:10bullet sponge enemies for that stuff. So it gets very, very intense. So yeah, it will be hard.

26:14You just didn't say it would be hard. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean one day. One day we'll definitely

26:19consider it. But right now it's not the main thing that we're focused on. Just because I think raids,

26:25they require a lot of time. They require a lot of testing and iteration to get them actually very

26:31well balanced. And our game has such a freeform combat system. The balancing across that, like when

26:37you're making a WoW raid, you know what classes you have. You kind of know what top tier abilities you have.

26:41With our game, we don't actually, I mean we kind of know what the best mix could be. But it'd be hard,

26:46very hard. So it's going to require a lot of effort to make actual raids. But to do raid-like things,

26:52like attacking a spaceship and bringing it down and doing things, yeah, we can work on some things

26:57like that for sure. But with that in mind, especially when thinking about more and more Pvd content,

27:03are you playing on any more classes or something? Yeah, definitely. There'll be a new skill tree

27:09slash class coming sometime in the next big update. Yeah, for sure. That's cool.

27:16Well, I can't say which one it is though. Yeah. Well, but the thing you said, it's going to be hard.

27:22But I think this is sort of what for me defines Dune Awakening, that it goes there and it does

27:28something that is probably hard, but you pulled it off for such a large part of the game already.

27:38It feels so, for me, it feels so satisfying to progress through the tiers and see yourself

27:46do a task that used to be a nuisance because you had to go from this shadow spot to this spot and

27:53beware of the worm and suddenly you're flying over the desert in an ornithopter and it's all you're

27:58doing. And I think, please try to keep pulling this off and keep pushing the boundaries because

28:05I think this is where the strength lies. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, no, I think we really nailed the

28:12progression and the feeling of progression and the feeling of the way the world opens as you play more,

28:17like you're suddenly combining things in interesting ways and feeling like the world opens up. So yeah,

28:23no, I appreciate that. And that's our plan, like to continue doing this. Yeah, I think the only thing

28:27that people are now saying is missing is just this sort of like an endless progression feeling in the

28:35end that sort of is like the MMO thing that many MMOs have. The treadmill. Just level something,

28:42keep leveling something up, even if it's just meaningless numbers. And the number go up. Yeah,

28:50we were talking. We had a summit at work last week to talk about Endgame. And that was one of the

28:54one of the points that like our progression needs to feel like you can continue to progress. Yeah.

28:59At the moment, it hits a wall. I understand that. So we will fix it. Well, Joel, thank you so much for

29:04coming. And thanks for being so open about it all. I would love to keep in touch with you guys and

29:10and talk about whenever you have something new to announce. And yeah, we'll keep playing. And I'm

29:16looking forward to the near future and the Carriathopter container and all the stuff you announced

29:22already, but also what is coming in the far future with new updates, add-ons and all the stuff you're

29:29adding. Great. Thank you so much for coming. Great. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

29:31Thank you, Ben and I. War wieder sehr schön mit dir gemeinsam, das hier zu machen.

29:36Bye.

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29:59Bye.

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