- 2 days ago
Victoria joins John to share her story of growing up in the teachings of David Terrell, exploring her early life within the group, her college years, and the gradual unraveling of her belief system. She describes the tension between what she had been taught and what she began to experience among other Christians, especially during her time in Japan. Her journey through studying apologetics and exploring doctrinal differences, particularly the concept of the Trinity, led her to re-evaluate the foundational teachings of Terrell’s ministry.
As the conversation unfolds, Victoria describes how discovering literature like Holy Ghost Girl and court records about Terrell’s financial misconduct shook her perception of him further. John and Victoria explore how Terrell’s ministry was influenced by William Branham, including the adoption of the manifested sons of God doctrine, end-times survivalism, and isolationist teachings. They also contrast these authoritarian environments with healthier church models based on mutual edification. The interview ends with reflections on how indoctrination shaped emotional development and practical life choices, and how healing is ongoing for those leaving such environments.
00:00 Introduction
01:08 Victoria shares her background and childhood in the group
03:49 Revival culture and early signs of Terrell’s decline
04:55 Beginning doubts and college exposure to outside Christianity
07:38 Cultural dissonance and emotional discomfort
10:03 Studying apologetics to reconnect with faith
12:41 Doctrinal challenges and embracing the Trinity
16:50 Council of Nicaea misconceptions and unraveling beliefs
19:00 Rationalizing Terrell’s errors as ignorance
21:05 Discovering Holy Ghost Girl and resisting new information
22:39 Living with believing family while privately deconstructing
24:12 Reading the book and facing disturbing revelations
26:31 Court case discovery and financial misconduct
29:17 Final break from belief in Terrell’s teachings
30:30 Branham’s commission of Terrell and theological implications
33:19 Terrell’s evolution from healer to prophetic figure
36:26 Racial dynamics and how Terrell diverged from Branham
37:33 Doctrines taught: Manifested sons of God
39:45 Anti-Catholic themes and prophetic reinterpretations
41:57 Views on dominionism and survivalist end-times theology
44:56 Fear-based control and financial consequences
47:57 Emotional effects of isolation and fear of the world
49:50 Reflections on feeling guilty for normal desires
51:41 Advice to her younger self and the importance of community
54:50 Comparing healthy church structure with authoritarian models
57:00 Closing reflections and invitation to connect with others who left
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https:/
As the conversation unfolds, Victoria describes how discovering literature like Holy Ghost Girl and court records about Terrell’s financial misconduct shook her perception of him further. John and Victoria explore how Terrell’s ministry was influenced by William Branham, including the adoption of the manifested sons of God doctrine, end-times survivalism, and isolationist teachings. They also contrast these authoritarian environments with healthier church models based on mutual edification. The interview ends with reflections on how indoctrination shaped emotional development and practical life choices, and how healing is ongoing for those leaving such environments.
00:00 Introduction
01:08 Victoria shares her background and childhood in the group
03:49 Revival culture and early signs of Terrell’s decline
04:55 Beginning doubts and college exposure to outside Christianity
07:38 Cultural dissonance and emotional discomfort
10:03 Studying apologetics to reconnect with faith
12:41 Doctrinal challenges and embracing the Trinity
16:50 Council of Nicaea misconceptions and unraveling beliefs
19:00 Rationalizing Terrell’s errors as ignorance
21:05 Discovering Holy Ghost Girl and resisting new information
22:39 Living with believing family while privately deconstructing
24:12 Reading the book and facing disturbing revelations
26:31 Court case discovery and financial misconduct
29:17 Final break from belief in Terrell’s teachings
30:30 Branham’s commission of Terrell and theological implications
33:19 Terrell’s evolution from healer to prophetic figure
36:26 Racial dynamics and how Terrell diverged from Branham
37:33 Doctrines taught: Manifested sons of God
39:45 Anti-Catholic themes and prophetic reinterpretations
41:57 Views on dominionism and survivalist end-times theology
44:56 Fear-based control and financial consequences
47:57 Emotional effects of isolation and fear of the world
49:50 Reflections on feeling guilty for normal desires
51:41 Advice to her younger self and the importance of community
54:50 Comparing healthy church structure with authoritarian models
57:00 Closing reflections and invitation to connect with others who left
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https:/
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LearningTranscript
00:00:00Transcription by CastingWords
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00:03:29Transcription by CastingWords
00:03:59I would say out of the cult you could say since I left since I went to college I stopped going to any church related to it but I didn't reject it in my heart.
00:04:12I just was like, you know, I'm in college and I want to wear pants.
00:04:18I want to go to parties. I want to go to parties. I didn't go crazy. I was like, I'm still not drinking because drinking is a sin. But, you know, I think pants, I think I can kind of get away with that.
00:04:28So, I was kind of like, I knew I was like, I'm being a little rebellious but, you know, I would never say I rejected it. You know, I would never say, oh, he's wrong.
00:04:40But, but I started to have some questions in college because that was the first time I was really getting to know other Christians who were not in the same group I was in.
00:04:53And they were doing things and I was told for abominations, you know, and so I had this cognitive dissonance that started.
00:05:02Because I was like, well, these people seem so sincere, but they wear makeup and they, they're wearing pants and they're wearing shorts. Oh my gosh.
00:05:12And what? Like I was, I'm thinking these things, but I'm embarrassed. I would never say them, you know.
00:05:18And then, you know, I went, I joined an on-campus like Christian student group and, you know, we had a little retreat and then worship service.
00:05:27They're playing all these songs. I have no idea what these songs are, you know, because we grew up with just like,
00:05:32you know, the old fashioned, like 1960s bluegrass country type stuff, you know, it's all the Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, got them on my mind, all that kind of stuff, you know?
00:05:45So I was like, what are these songs? I don't know anything like, you know, and because contemporary worship, that was like, you know, no, it's charismatic mess, as they would say.
00:05:56Anyway, so I was like, you know, I felt very uncomfortable.
00:06:02And then, you know, people are reading Bibles that are not the King James.
00:06:05And we were told King James is the only, you know, Bible that there is.
00:06:11And all these other ones are, you know, not inspired or whatever, or they're changing things.
00:06:16And so, you know, I felt they're uncomfortable, but I still stayed in these groups because I thought, well, you know,
00:06:23I think it's better than not being in anything. And I don't know, I think they just don't know better.
00:06:29And, you know, so that was kind of the beginning of the sort of something is off here.
00:06:35And I couldn't bring myself to say or to think that these people weren't really Christian.
00:06:41I couldn't do it. So I was like, well, they just don't know.
00:06:45What's funny is you have described my life growing up to the letter.
00:06:49Well, not to the letter. I did not. I never wanted to wear makeup.
00:06:52That was probably the only difference between us.
00:06:55But you've described pretty much every every person who comes out of the Branham sect.
00:07:00That's the way that they are whenever they interact with real Christians who aren't in the same cult.
00:07:06I'll never forget whenever I had that first experience.
00:07:09I was like, wait a minute. These people can't love God.
00:07:12This woman's wearing pants. She's got makeup.
00:07:15And it had I was talking with another guy.
00:07:18He said it's turned into a religion of the dress code.
00:07:21And that's pretty much what it is for the ladies.
00:07:24Now, for the men, it gets a little bit deeper than that.
00:07:26But so you were primarily from the South, which I want to talk about that a little bit later.
00:07:32I want to talk about David Terrell's ministry and how he came to be.
00:07:37But you, as I understand it, you went to other countries as well. Is that right?
00:07:40Yes. So I when I graduated from college, I moved to Japan.
00:07:47So I lived in a couple of places.
00:07:49So I was born in New Jersey, moved to Virginia when I was 13.
00:07:53And then I went to college in Connecticut and then I went to Japan.
00:07:57So in Japan, you know, I would I would have called myself a Christian.
00:08:02Of course, I always told people I was a Christian, but I wasn't, I guess, living the way I was supposed to.
00:08:10You know, I was wearing pants.
00:08:13OK, I was wearing makeup.
00:08:15I was listening to secular music.
00:08:17And I was also doing things which I really shouldn't have done.
00:08:22You know, I started having relationships with men.
00:08:28I was like I was I even went to temples and stuff, not believing in it, but just, you know, just for fun.
00:08:37Like I want to see all the Japanese temples and shrines as you know, because they're beautiful and I would follow the custom, you know, you wash your hands, you do this, you light some incense.
00:08:49Now I wouldn't do it.
00:08:51But at the time, you know, I wasn't solid in really all I knew was what I was taught about the end times and all that kind of stuff.
00:08:59We didn't really I didn't have a very solid now that I realize biblical foundation.
00:09:04But but again, if you'd asked me, you know, about Brother Terrell and the ministry, I would have said, yeah, it's true.
00:09:11Like, I shouldn't really be doing these things.
00:09:15I started drinking alcohol.
00:09:17Drinking is a big thing in Japan.
00:09:19I got drunk for the first time, you know, I was 22 or something.
00:09:24And but I still I was running away from guilt.
00:09:28I was always feeling guilty deep down.
00:09:30I would just try to ignore it.
00:09:31Um, and I kind of lived like that, uh, until, um, I had a bad breakup with my Japanese boyfriend.
00:09:40I wanted to marry him.
00:09:42He wasn't a Christian.
00:09:43And I, you know, was I wanted him to become a Christian, a Pentecostal, of course.
00:09:49But I also felt guilty because I'm like, I'm not living the way I'm supposed to.
00:09:55How am I supposed to evangelize to him?
00:09:57And so I didn't talk about God a whole lot with him.
00:10:01He just knew I was Christian.
00:10:03So when that ended, um, I wanted to get him back.
00:10:07And I thought, well, okay, I really have to tighten up.
00:10:11Like, I've got to know my Bible.
00:10:13I really have to study, you know.
00:10:15I didn't know the word at the time, but apologetics, because I wanted to convince him to become a Christian.
00:10:23And at this time, maybe I was 20, 24, 25.
00:10:29Um, right now I'm 31.
00:10:31So it really wasn't that long ago.
00:10:33Um, and, uh, so I started to really read the Bible.
00:10:37Now, I had grown up reading the Bible.
00:10:40My mom would read it with us.
00:10:42Um, but, you know, it's filtered through what you're told to believe about it, right?
00:10:48Um, and what I did, which was different, was I didn't just read the Bible.
00:10:53I searched on YouTube online for apologetics, uh, stuff.
00:10:58Because I wanted to counter the arguments that I knew he would make about, well, why is there only one God?
00:11:04What about the Japanese religion and this and that?
00:11:08So I started coming across, like, I'd heard of William Lane Craig since, like, high school.
00:11:13And I had watched some of his debates.
00:11:15So I got really into him.
00:11:17I got his books.
00:11:18I watched his whole Defenders series, which is super deep doctrine, like, theology.
00:11:23And, you know, he would mention things that I'm like, hmm, I don't know about that.
00:11:28Trinity, for example.
00:11:29I was like, well, I don't know about that.
00:11:31But the, you know, the ontological argument, yeah, that sounds good.
00:11:35And, you know, but I would, you know, I kept searching.
00:11:39I came across other Christians.
00:11:40And they were all saying similar things.
00:11:42And I was like, well, these people all seem really solid.
00:11:46And they're all saying the Trinity is, like, super important.
00:11:48And, like, some of them were even saying you can't be saved if you don't believe that.
00:11:53And so I'm like, okay, well, could it be true?
00:11:57And so I was like, all right, I have to know.
00:12:01I have to, I got to be, like, honest and, like, really look into it.
00:12:06So that was really the first thing that got me to doubt Brother Terrell's teachings.
00:12:14Because when I first went on this spiritual journey, I was listening to his stuff because
00:12:19I thought I didn't really know what else to do to be more spiritual.
00:12:22So, you know, I went on YouTube and was, I went on a fast.
00:12:28And then I read, he had a couple books.
00:12:31I read his book that I had.
00:12:34And I watched his videos and stuff and was trying to, you know, seek God.
00:12:39And I believe the Lord heard me because the first thing he brought to my attention was the Trinity.
00:12:44That was the first thing, the first doctrine that I was like, I have to figure this out.
00:12:48And so I went through, I got a notebook and I just went through the New Testament multiple times.
00:12:55Every time it mentioned Jesus, like, and his attributes, I wrote it down.
00:12:59Father, you know, Holy Spirit.
00:13:01And I had to answer the questions, okay, is this, are these attributes of God?
00:13:06And I had, I wrote down all the verses.
00:13:08These are all attributes of God.
00:13:10Are they all attributes of someone who, you know, as a person, as opposed to a, I don't know, a force or something.
00:13:17For example, with the Holy Spirit.
00:13:18And I was like, yeah, I mean, it says he did this.
00:13:21He can be grieved.
00:13:22That's personhood, right?
00:13:24And then the last thing was, do they interact?
00:13:27And then, of course, I found so many examples of them interacting.
00:13:31And so I was like, so they're all God.
00:13:34They all are, have personhood and they all interact.
00:13:38So they're not the same person.
00:13:40How can I say that's not the Trinity?
00:13:42And then I was like, oh my God.
00:13:44So, and I actually texted my mom because I was, I wanted to hear her perspective.
00:13:51And she sent me some stuff about, you know, the, what was it?
00:13:59The Council of Nicaea.
00:14:01Basically, they invented the Trinity, that whole thing.
00:14:04And, but then I was searching, as I'm looking up apologetics, I'm coming across defenses of the Trinity.
00:14:10Because a lot of these apologists, they know this is a big thing that comes up, mostly with, like, Muslims or Jehovah's Witness.
00:14:16But I'm, like, watching the video.
00:14:18So I'm, like, you know, doing the apologetics to myself, actually, of, oh, so this thing I heard is actually not true.
00:14:26Oh, the Council of Nicaea didn't actually, oh, oh, oh, okay.
00:14:29So all the stuff I've been taught just, like, fell down.
00:14:31And I was, like, I think I believe in the Trinity now.
00:14:35I still felt uncomfortable a little bit, like, you know, but I was, like, I think it's true.
00:14:40So, but then how do I see God now?
00:14:42Like, so, when I pray, am I praying to all of them at the same time?
00:14:47How does that work?
00:14:48Yeah.
00:14:49Like, the whole, I had, I was, like, I always been taught to pray, Father, in the name of Jesus.
00:14:54That's what my parents taught me.
00:14:55So I'm, like, I'm talking to the Father?
00:14:58Or am I talking to Jesus?
00:14:59I always thought I was talking to Jesus.
00:15:00So I'm, like, what am I doing?
00:15:01So I think I was overthinking it, but that was kind of the beginning.
00:15:06And then it just sort of, like, opened up from there with me questioning, okay, that's wrong.
00:15:13Okay, well, gosh, I guess everything else I have to look into now.
00:15:17What about all the dress code stuff?
00:15:21Maybe that stuff isn't?
00:15:23You know, I remember going through so much of that same journey.
00:15:26In fact, it was different for me than most people who are in the cult, because I actually read my Bible as a kid.
00:15:34I read it constantly.
00:15:36And I remember having this strong debate with a co-worker when I was 16 years old, maybe even 15 years old.
00:15:44And he was a Trinitarian, and he was very, very strong in his faith.
00:15:48And he was trying to convince me, because we were like you were, the oneness doctrine that Branham was preaching.
00:15:55But, see, I'd read my Bible, and through cognitive dissonance, I was hearing Branham say oneness, but I was reading Trinitarian, because Jesus said, I will send the Holy Spirit.
00:16:07He didn't say, I will become the Holy Spirit, and I knew these things, right?
00:16:11So we're having this big argument, and it's weird, because I clearly remember the look on his face was complete shock.
00:16:18He was trying to convince me of things.
00:16:21I was trying to convince him of the same things he was trying to convince me, but because he used the word Trinitarian, I thought this man was evil.
00:16:28He was of the serpent seed is another phrase that we would call these people.
00:16:32And then, fast forward years later, went through the same journey I'm going through.
00:16:38I read through apologist works like No Man's Business.
00:16:42I don't even remember all of the works that I read.
00:16:45There were books.
00:16:45There were videos.
00:16:47There were debates.
00:16:48I went through constant, constant things like this.
00:16:51And you mentioned the Council of Nicaea.
00:16:54I want to expand on that for people who are listening who aren't aware, because Branhamism, and largely through his assistance and cohorts in the Lateran movement, they spread the notion, and this was a, believe it or not, a clan-inspired notion, that the Council of Nicaea is what brought the Trinitarian doctrine into the world.
00:17:18And we need to eradicate it because it's evil, and it has come into the United States.
00:17:23They're trying to take over our government.
00:17:25The Catholics are going to rule.
00:17:26That was this doctrine, and I believed it.
00:17:30I believed that the Council of Nicaea was for this purpose, because that's what I was told.
00:17:34Why would they lie to me?
00:17:36I was shocked to learn that it was actually to discuss the divinity of Jesus.
00:17:41It was not about the Trinitarian doctrine.
00:17:45It was the Arian controversy, because, what is it, Arius, the Arian controversy, he believed that Jesus was not divine, and so they had this big debate.
00:17:55Once I learned that, I realized, well, if he's going to lie to me about this, what else did he lie to me about?
00:18:01And I just started going.
00:18:03The whole thing started to unravel.
00:18:05But it was very much the same as what you're describing, so I sympathize with that journey.
00:18:09If you, anybody who's listening who hasn't made that journey, understand that it makes spaghetti of your head.
00:18:16Yeah, yeah, because then you're like, what's true, you know?
00:18:21Now, I'm glad that I never really got to a point where I was really questioning the existence of God or the veracity of Christianity,
00:18:31and I think that's because I had, what caused me to unravel was apologetics.
00:18:35So, while this thing, I believe, is being broken down, I'm also hearing good arguments for why Christianity is true.
00:18:45So, I'm, you know, I believe God was helping me and is kind of keeping me safe in this process through, you know, through that.
00:18:53But yeah, like, I was buying all the books, you know, Craig was just one.
00:18:57But, you know, I got into Robbie Zacharias, actually, unfortunately, you know, what happened there.
00:19:03But, you know, like G.K. Chesterton, who actually is a Catholic.
00:19:09And, you know, speaking of Catholicism, we had the same sort of indoctrination, oops, sorry, about the evil Catholic Church.
00:19:17And I kind of, I do want to get into Brother Terrell and what he taught specifically once I kind of go through my journey real quick.
00:19:26Yeah, I mean, I got really into it.
00:19:28I'm, you know, I love learning.
00:19:29I love reading.
00:19:30I love academic stuff, like philosophy.
00:19:33I love all of that.
00:19:33So, it was very natural for me to go down that route.
00:19:36But, and eventually, you know, after this couple of years of this that I sort of just believed, okay, I think, you know, Brother Terrell, he was just uneducated, you know, and he was uneducated.
00:19:50You know, he didn't go to school past, like, I think the third grade.
00:19:55And so, you know, he just misunderstood things.
00:19:58I thought, okay, he doesn't know the history of the Council of Nicaea or he doesn't understand what the Trinity is.
00:20:05Because a lot of Christians, frankly, don't quite understand the Trinity.
00:20:08They, some of them fall into modalism when they try to explain it.
00:20:12So, I thought, hmm, I think he just didn't understand it, you know.
00:20:18And with the dress code and all that stuff, like, I was like, well, you know, back then, that was what was considered modest attire.
00:20:29And so, you know, he was sort of just pushing his opinion of what modesty was.
00:20:33But, you know, things are different now.
00:20:36And so, I was trying to find ways to sort of excuse, I guess, his beliefs.
00:20:42It's like, well, yeah, I think he was wrong about these things.
00:20:46But I definitely wasn't prepared to say, oh, it was a cult or that he was, you know, false or anything.
00:20:53I never, like, I couldn't get to that point yet mentally.
00:20:58But what really got me to start looking at him was I had searched his name in Google a couple of times just trying to see what was out there.
00:21:10And I came across a book.
00:21:13You may have heard of it called Holy Ghost Girl by Donna Johnson.
00:21:18And when I first saw the little blurb, I was like, no, I couldn't.
00:21:23And I think I just couldn't handle, I wasn't ready to read something like that.
00:21:32I was afraid of it.
00:21:34I was afraid.
00:21:35And now having studied a bit about mind control, and I read Hassan's book, actually, when I, thank you, you introduced me to that.
00:21:46And I read his book.
00:21:47And I was like, that was thought stopping.
00:21:49I was just like, nope.
00:21:52Nope, I can't.
00:21:53But it was there in the back of my mind.
00:21:57And I don't know what it was, but something brought me back to it.
00:22:00And at this point, I had moved back to the U.S.
00:22:04I came back during COVID, and I was living with my dad and my two aunts, who, they're all believers in tarot.
00:22:14At this point, my parents had divorced, and my mom remarried to someone who's a minister in the tarot thing.
00:22:22So they're all in it.
00:22:23So, you know, they would say things, and they would, every Saturday, because we keep Sabbath, they would play, well, not tapes anymore, it's YouTube now, because we have technology.
00:22:38So YouTube videos of past services and stuff.
00:22:41And we would sing and, you know, do our prayer service.
00:22:44We called it prayer service.
00:22:45That's what I grew up doing in New Jersey.
00:22:48And it was funny, you talked about tape churches.
00:22:50I was like, yeah, I guess so.
00:22:51That's what we were doing.
00:22:52And we had boxes and boxes of cassettes, you know, from back from the 80s, I think, you know, 80s, 90s, 2000s, every time, you know, we went to a meeting or whatever, my mom, my dad would buy the tapes or the cassettes.
00:23:05So, you know, we'd watch those.
00:23:08And, you know, now I'm like, I've already started studying apologetics.
00:23:11I definitely disagree about the Trinity and a couple other things.
00:23:15But now I'm starting to feel uncomfortable with this stuff.
00:23:19And I'm like, and I'm noticing, like, the sort of spiritual pride, honestly, of my family, you know, feeling like they're elite, you know, like they're, they kind of turn their nose at anyone who's not following God the way that we're supposed to, that they think we're supposed to, right?
00:23:40Like, you know, I got my ears pierced, which was like, and then the nose ring, that was, oh, my God.
00:23:49This was kind of out of spite, to be honest.
00:23:51I was like, I know it's not a sin and I'm just going to do it.
00:23:55Um, but so slowly I was like, yeah, I don't think this stuff is right, but I couldn't bring myself to really say anything bad about the man, you know, or I had no, you know, I didn't know anything about him besides what I've been taught.
00:24:09So finally I ordered that book.
00:24:11I don't know how long it was since I, maybe it was a year after I heard about it.
00:24:15And I start reading the book and yeah, that was, that was kind of the nail in the coffin.
00:24:23It was like, I'd already been theologically getting away from it, but now I was like, wow.
00:24:30Um, it was, he was leading a double life.
00:24:36Um, you know, he had multiple children with different women.
00:24:40Um, we knew, I knew he was married three times, but outside of that, you know, woman, he wasn't married to.
00:24:49Um, and, you know, at first I was like, well, how do I know this stuff is true?
00:24:54I mean, but as I'm reading it, I'm like, I mean, what reason would she have to lie about these things?
00:25:00Like, it's not like he's this famous person that you could get some clout for bringing down.
00:25:04I'm like, nobody knows who this guy is.
00:25:06Like, what reason would she have to write a book about him and then lie about it?
00:25:12So I'm thinking these things, but I'm still thinking like, well, is it all true?
00:25:16So I'm still, you know, struggling within myself about it.
00:25:21Um, but I finished the book and of course now I'm researching about the book.
00:25:26I want to see what have other people said about this?
00:25:28Are other people corroborating it?
00:25:29And I look for the reviews and then of course there's ex-Terralites, I guess, as they call themselves.
00:25:35And I guess, you know, I didn't know that there was even a word for that.
00:25:38Yeah.
00:25:39Um, who were corroborating what she'd said.
00:25:43And I was like, oh, wow.
00:25:44And of course there were people in the comments also defending him and saying this is a lie and he was a man of God.
00:25:49And, but now I'm like, I don't know, man, this, like, this looks really, but I didn't say anything.
00:25:57Did not tell my family.
00:25:58Nope.
00:25:59You know, just keep it to myself.
00:26:00Cause I'm like, they're just going to say it's a lie.
00:26:03And I can't really prove otherwise.
00:26:05I actually reached out to her to probably a little weird on Facebook.
00:26:09I was like, can you please confirm to me that, you know, these people, there's others, these other children exist.
00:26:17Like, is there any way you can, you can like show me something?
00:26:21And I, I'm kind of embarrassed.
00:26:22Cause I'm like, that was so weird.
00:26:23But I was just like desperate for some kind of proof to like show my family.
00:26:27It's true.
00:26:28It's true.
00:26:29Um, and, uh, you know, after that, I, I kept searching more and I came across the court case that happened.
00:26:37And I don't know if you've heard of that.
00:26:39Um, and, uh, now we were aware of it, you know, growing up, I knew that he went to jail, but it was always told as, um,
00:26:47he was innocent and, you know, that someone, that basically he took the fall for someone kind of thing.
00:26:56Like maybe somebody was supposed to be doing the taxes and they didn't do it correctly.
00:27:01And it wasn't his fault essentially.
00:27:04So it was him being persecuted.
00:27:06Um, so we all thought he was a hero for having gone to jail, you know,
00:27:10and he would talk about his time in jail and, you know, praying and, you know, um, preaching in the, in the jail and everything.
00:27:18And, uh, so, you know, that was to hear that, to read, I read the whole, the legal documents that I could find online.
00:27:28And I was like, I don't see why I should doubt this.
00:27:32Like, can I really like this?
00:27:35I don't, I mean, all the money he had, I was shocked.
00:27:38Cause we all thought, yeah, he had some land.
00:27:41That was, you know, but I mean, he was a millionaire.
00:27:47I was like, no way.
00:27:48There's no way.
00:27:49Cause he, he always seemed like so humble and, you know, like what?
00:27:54And a guitar shaped swimming pool, $29,000 or something like that.
00:27:58I was like, what?
00:27:59You know, and we're, you know, and so many, the people who followed him were poor, um, mostly.
00:28:07And, you know, my mom, my dad, I would give my little change in the meetings, you know?
00:28:13Um, and, uh, yeah, that was a shock.
00:28:17And so even I was like, well, even if what he said is true and that somebody made some mistake with the taxes, like he had a lot of stuff.
00:28:27And then on top of that, it's saying he, he had, um, an alias and that he, another name that he used to take out, to, to buy property and bank accounts.
00:28:39And so I was like, this is the kind of stuff you do if you're trying to hide something.
00:28:43So is that all a lie?
00:28:45Like their documents cannot be a lie.
00:28:47And so I'm thinking about all that.
00:28:49And finally I came to the conclusion that like, nah, I think, I think it, I think it's true.
00:28:54I think it's all true.
00:28:55And so that was sort of like, and this was, I don't know, maybe a year or two, maybe two years ago when I was like, yeah, I think he really was a liar.
00:29:05And, um, it still was hard to reconcile that with all the other things.
00:29:09Like, I was just like, well, I just, I can't deny the truth.
00:29:12And so, you know, that I guess was finally the end, I would say of me being a follower of his, like the official end, even though for me it was a slow process, you know, very, very slow.
00:29:24So I would say from the beginning, when I first started questioning his doctrine to now, it's probably like six, seven years.
00:29:32Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign, charismatic and other fringe movements into the new apostolic reformation?
00:29:46You can learn this and more on William Branham Historical Research's website, william-branham.org.
00:29:53On the books page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book.
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00:30:31It's crazy interesting whenever you're talking about all of this, because I'm thinking about your guitar-shaped swimming pool.
00:30:37I'll never forget the shock when I saw that William Branham had a swimming pool.
00:30:42After he taught so strongly against having swimming pool parties and all of this stuff.
00:30:47And half of the people who are in the cult who come across the photos that I have online, they're just in complete shock and denial.
00:30:54They say, no, this is not, this can't be his home.
00:30:57But my family visited this home.
00:30:59My family took the pictures of the swimming pool.
00:31:01So, it's kind of a big deal.
00:31:04But where it gets really funny is that we would have disavowed, and we did disavow David Terrell,
00:31:12because we considered him to be a nutjob who went extremist and he created a cult.
00:31:17Which is true, but here's the problem in it.
00:31:22The year in which he was commissioned by William Branham, William Branham's deity cult was starting to emerge.
00:31:29They were literally believing that William Branham was God in the flesh.
00:31:33They rejected the Trinity, but they accepted that this human hillbilly from Kentucky was literally the God in the flesh.
00:31:42And this began to emerge very strongly in his Shreveport meetings.
00:31:47That was the very meeting that he's meeting with David Terrell.
00:31:51And he says something to the effect, and I'm paraphrasing greatly, but he says,
00:31:58My God, you're a prophet.
00:32:00You're ordained by God himself.
00:32:02And he gives some sort of a commission to David Terrell.
00:32:05Well, he's commissioning him at a time when many people believe that he is God.
00:32:10So when he says this, when he says, My God, it's as though he is the God that's ordaining the prophet.
00:32:18And this is the new prophet for the age when William Branham dies.
00:32:21Because when he dies, now you have a successor prophet who is ordained by Branham.
00:32:27What Terrell didn't realize is that he's not the only one that William Branham did this to.
00:32:33There were other notorious figures.
00:32:35One of them was the infamous Moses David Berg who had the happy hookers for Jesus that went around and prostituted themselves to bring in new members and recruit them.
00:32:47That's the kind of people that this God was ordaining.
00:32:52And so there is no insight.
00:32:54There is no spiritual conveyance here.
00:32:56This is just a ridiculous guy pretending to be the deity.
00:33:00He taught it through a manifested sons of God framework.
00:33:04He was the manifestation of God.
00:33:06But he was pouring out an additional manifestation into David Terrell.
00:33:11So this is what created this weird cult that you were in.
00:33:16How far?
00:33:17So in your research, I know that you've dug into the David Terrell cult.
00:33:21How far did you go with the connections?
00:33:23Did you understand that William Branham was behind his creation?
00:33:27Yeah.
00:33:27Well, through your work.
00:33:30So I'd heard the name William Branham growing up because Brother Terrell would mention him many times in his messages.
00:33:41He would talk about, you know, Jack Coe, A. Allen, you know.
00:33:44But William Branham, you know, like we all saw him as someone to be highly respected.
00:33:50And now I didn't know that Brother Terrell was had like officially, I guess, ordained by him.
00:33:57If I asked older people who, you know, maybe my parents might have heard that, but it wasn't until I saw your website and I was like, oh, okay.
00:34:09I didn't know it was like that close.
00:34:11Like I knew Brother Terrell had gone to some of his meetings, but I didn't know that, yeah, he was directly commissioned by him.
00:34:18Because I think at that point, Brother Terrell was already, I don't know if I should even call him brother anymore, right?
00:34:26Because I'm like, was he really a brother in Christ?
00:34:28Like David Terrell, he was already a preacher at that point, I believe, but he wasn't calling himself a prophet.
00:34:38But so I really, and through the book, this actually helped a lot.
00:34:43So Donna Johnson, she writes that, so it was really, she claims her mother who, with whom, you know, he was having an affair.
00:34:52She really convinced him that he was a prophet.
00:34:56And she kind of pushed him to really take on that persona.
00:35:02Before he considered himself like an evangelist, a faith healer, you know, with the gift of healing.
00:35:06And that was his big thing.
00:35:10But the prophecy part, and, you know, being the mouthpiece of God, that came a little bit later.
00:35:16So in the, I think in the 60s, he was more so healing evangelist.
00:35:21But after that, I don't know when that happened with William Branham.
00:35:25Do you know what year that was when he was officially ordained?
00:35:28If I understand it correctly, it was, I think it was 1960 when he was ordained by Branham.
00:35:34And ordained by Branham, I should clarify that.
00:35:39He was probably already an ordained minister.
00:35:42But the way Branham would commission these people was a step above this.
00:35:46He would say, you were ordained by God.
00:35:48And I think that's the exact phrase that I heard that was used with David Terrell.
00:35:52Yeah.
00:35:53So, yeah, so that sounds about right.
00:35:55He started off preaching, and then he sort of morphed into the prophet of the age.
00:36:02And I believe that's really after William Branham died is really when he takes on that mantle, I guess you could say.
00:36:10So, I, to prepare for this, I actually was looking back at old videos and sermons just to refresh my memory.
00:36:17Because, again, I listened to all this as a child.
00:36:21But, you know, what, now I can understand a lot better the connections with William Branham and all that.
00:36:28I will say the one big difference is just that David Terrell, far as I know, I don't think he was a racist in the sense that he really wanted to keep everyone separate.
00:36:40And, like, he was pretty famous, infamous for actually having mixed meetings and was even attacked by the KKK a couple of times.
00:36:49They beat him up and stuff.
00:36:51So, he, you know, supported integration in that way.
00:36:56Now, I don't know about interracial marriage so much, but he definitely tolerated it.
00:37:01I mean, my parents, my father is black, my mother is white, he married them.
00:37:05So, I don't think he would have done that if he thought that was the evil thing that William Branham preached.
00:37:13Now, he did do it in the back of the church, though, because apparently some people weren't too happy about it.
00:37:18So, I was a little disappointed about that, that he wouldn't stand up for that, but whatever.
00:37:23So, but he married my parents.
00:37:25They were insistent that he be the one to marry them.
00:37:29So, when it comes to, I guess, what did he preach?
00:37:34What did he believe?
00:37:36I have a lot of notes, so if you want me to kind of go into that, I can.
00:37:39Unless, is there anything else from my personal story that you wanted to know or that you think the audience might want to know?
00:37:45I am interested to hear what he preached and how he did it.
00:37:50I'm specifically interested to know if he's preaching the manifested sons of God doctrine, because that's one of the core concepts of what emerged from Christian identity.
00:38:01And I have identified other people who were not racist in the regards with black people and white, but they're teaching core Christian identity doctrines, which is heavily anti-Catholic, heavily anti-Jew, things like this.
00:38:19I'm really interested to hear if he taught some of that.
00:38:21Yeah, so definitely manifested sons of God.
00:38:26So, you know, he said that, like, basically, we would be doing greater works than Jesus, you know.
00:38:35He almost sounded like he was getting into Arianism with, like, the way he would talk about Jesus.
00:38:40Like, well, he had the Holy Spirit in him, and so, you know, he was moving in power and all these things.
00:38:49And, you know, we're going to have, you know, if we fast and we pray, you know, basically, if we seek God, you know, we'll have that same power that Jesus had.
00:38:58And, you know, so he taught that, and the people affiliated with him still teach that.
00:39:05Like, I went to my mom's church, and there was a visiting minister who used to travel with Brother Terrell, and he was preaching the same thing, the same manifested sons of God.
00:39:14And he's black, so as far as they know, it's not connected at all to anything racist.
00:39:18The idea is just that it's like we're going to be super Christians, you know.
00:39:22It's like there's going to be this elite group at the end who we're just going to be like, you know, like Elijah, you know, saying it's not going to rain or whatever.
00:39:30Like, all that kind of stuff.
00:39:32We're going to be moving in that power.
00:39:34So that's how I understood manifested sons of God, what that was.
00:39:40But he didn't tie it to any particular race or anything.
00:39:44Now, anti-Catholic, yes, very, very, very much so.
00:39:48He said that, so in Revelation, you know, I forgot which church it was, but where there was that Jezebel who was enticing the people to commit sexual sin.
00:40:04And he said that's the Catholic church, that, you know, the great whore is the Catholic church.
00:40:10Jezebel is the Catholic church.
00:40:12And, I mean, he would preach whole sermons about that, you know.
00:40:16So, the Catholic church was the Antichrist, essentially.
00:40:21It was a lot of things.
00:40:22It was the whore.
00:40:23It was the Jezebel.
00:40:24It was everything.
00:40:26Pretty much anything that you could throw negative against them, that's what it was.
00:40:30I'll never forget when I was reading Ezekiel, what is it, 16, I think it is.
00:40:37It talks about God's faithless bride.
00:40:39And it talks about Jerusalem, how you have failed me.
00:40:43God is speaking to Jerusalem.
00:40:45I adorned you with the finest jewelry.
00:40:47I put a nose ring in your nose and earrings in your ears.
00:40:51And I'm reading this thinking, wait a minute.
00:40:52Earrings are supposed to be evil.
00:40:54Nose rings are the devil.
00:40:55And then it says, you are the, I can't remember the exact verbiage, but it's basically, you're
00:41:02the greatest of all harlots.
00:41:04And that's Jerusalem.
00:41:05And so, when you read Revelation, the book of Revelation, in that light, and you start
00:41:10to understand that, you know, Jerusalem also sits on seven hills.
00:41:14And there are different ways to interpret this.
00:41:18And there's this one passage in Revelation where it says, we're in the city where our
00:41:24Lord was crucified.
00:41:26Well, that can't be Rome.
00:41:27That's not Rome.
00:41:29So, I started reading these things, and I'm starting to untangle what was programmed in
00:41:34my head.
00:41:34They were taking verses completely out of context, trying to point it at the Catholic
00:41:38Church.
00:41:39And I'm not a big fan of the Catholic Church, but I also can't lie about them.
00:41:45I can't say that the city where our Lord was crucified is pointing to the Catholic Church.
00:41:51That doesn't work for me.
00:41:52So, I went through all of that, too.
00:41:56What about dominionism?
00:41:58So, every one of the sects that came after William Branham that rose up with new leaders,
00:42:03they have different versions of how the end of days would play out.
00:42:08And in some cases, they wanted to forcibly rule.
00:42:12Was David Terrell one who wanted to forcibly rule?
00:42:16So, he taught, it really was all about the end times, and it was going to be like now.
00:42:24The Lord's coming back next year, it could be.
00:42:27Well, it couldn't technically be because there had to be the seven years of tribulation.
00:42:30But, no, the idea was, so this was a big part of our childhood was, you know, hearing like
00:42:36we had to get out of the cities.
00:42:38We needed to move into the country, get land, learn how to live off the land because the
00:42:45Mark of the Beast is coming.
00:42:46There's not going to be a rapture.
00:42:47It was very, very anti-rapture for the church.
00:42:50So, we're going to have to survive the tribulation and the Mark of the Beast and all that stuff.
00:42:57So, you know, people were, you know, selling stuff, leaving all the cities, and you had
00:43:03to get away from the coast because in California, it's going to fall into the ocean, which apparently
00:43:07William Branham said, and I didn't realize he said that first.
00:43:10And that, you know, nuclear bombs, you know, were going to be dropped on the cities.
00:43:16And, you know, he's preaching this in the, you know, 2000s, right?
00:43:20This is not, he was, he had been preaching this, now I realize, way back since the beginning,
00:43:25but he was still preaching that, you know, I think he said, get 50 miles away from a small
00:43:30city, 100 miles away from a big one because of the blast radius or something.
00:43:34So, and we were living in New Jersey, pretty close to New York.
00:43:37So, my mom was, like, freaking out, and my dad, he was less, he would never say he rejected
00:43:45Brother Terrell, but he kind of wanted to do his own thing a little bit.
00:43:49Like, he used to break the Sabbath sometimes, you know, he would kind of, you know, my mom
00:43:54was more like, oh my gosh, like, what are we doing?
00:43:56We have to store up food.
00:43:57She had, like, I don't know how many, 50, 100 gallons of water in the basement, and she
00:44:02had boxes and boxes with cans and, you know, trying to do what she could to try to survive,
00:44:07you know, the end times.
00:44:08So, the idea was to separate from society.
00:44:12The idea was to get into a blessed area, which was, I guess, a place that he said was a blessed
00:44:19area.
00:44:20And they were scattered throughout the South, you know, and to get your own land, basically
00:44:26homestead, and, you know, wait out the end of days.
00:44:28So, there was definitely no, you know, we were not encouraged to participate in society
00:44:35like that, you know, to get into government or do this, no, it's like, it's all going
00:44:38to hell, basically, you know, this is what's going to happen, you know, the Catholic Church
00:44:43and the Pope, and this is going to happen, and they're going to start killing Christians
00:44:46and executing us and all type of stuff.
00:44:49And, you know, it's going to be Armageddon, basically.
00:44:52So, we just have to try to survive and wait for Jesus to come back.
00:44:59So, that was how we were raised.
00:45:01Very much the same way that we were.
00:45:03You lived in constant fear of the whole world being obliterated.
00:45:07And they, you know, it's tied back to the communist scare of the 60s.
00:45:11That's where all this came, Branham had all these recordings, and so anybody who indoctrinates
00:45:16their brain with this nonsense, they live in constant fear that we need to live in these
00:45:21bomb shelters, this is coming.
00:45:23And what's interesting is, now that you actually see, for the first time in decades, you see
00:45:28Russia flexing their military might, everybody who's in that mindset, they're in complete
00:45:34fear, they're mortified that this is going to happen.
00:45:37It doesn't bring a peace to you.
00:45:39Like, other Christians have a peace that Jesus is going to protect them.
00:45:42This group doesn't.
00:45:43You have, you live in constant fear.
00:45:46And honestly, and you could get this out of Hassan's book as well, it's the fear that
00:45:51keeps people captive.
00:45:52So, this fear helps bind it all together.
00:45:55Yeah, yeah.
00:45:56Because it's like, well, you know, God is warning you.
00:45:59So, if you die in this, it's on you.
00:46:02You know, like, he told you to get out of the city.
00:46:04You know, he told you to learn to live off the land.
00:46:08So, when the mark of the beast comes and you can't buy or sell, you're going to starve
00:46:11to death.
00:46:12You know, like, it's going to be on you.
00:46:15So, there's pressure, you know, for you to get things figured out.
00:46:20And, you know, so, you don't think long term.
00:46:24And that's one of the huge unfortunate effects of this thinking.
00:46:29You know, my parents did not save up money.
00:46:32They didn't even buy a house.
00:46:34You know, we always rented my whole life.
00:46:38And, like, my mom, she gave her whole retirement away to this man.
00:46:46I don't know how much money exactly.
00:46:49I know tens of thousands.
00:46:50My dad has no retirement either because they all thought it's going to be over.
00:46:55They're not going to retire.
00:46:57I didn't think I would probably get married or have kids, you know.
00:47:02And I was pretty upset about that as a kid.
00:47:04I was like, no, I want to have kids at least before the end of the world, you know.
00:47:08And then, but then they'd say, well, you don't want to have kids at that time.
00:47:10So, I was almost like I felt guilty for wanting to do those things because, well, it's going to be so bad that maybe I shouldn't be trying to, you know, get married and have kids and stuff.
00:47:21So, it definitely felt like everything is imminent.
00:47:25And, you know, so you just look around at people, these other Christians are like, what are they doing, you know?
00:47:31And, like, they're going to be swept up in the, in the, in the, the whatever.
00:47:36And so, it creates, like, you know, Hassan said, the us versus them.
00:47:42It's huge because you're this small group who knows what's going to happen.
00:47:46And everyone else is like, it's like they're walking off a cliff and you're the only one who sees the danger coming.
00:47:53And so, you know, you feel very isolated.
00:47:57I felt very isolated growing up.
00:47:59I actually went to public school, so, which my parents didn't want me to, but they couldn't afford to homeschool me.
00:48:06So, I went to public school and I, there's no one I knew who was like me, just my brother, I guess.
00:48:14So, you feel like you can't, I can't really say these things to my friends.
00:48:20You know, you guys aren't real Christians.
00:48:22Because I would tell my mom, dad, like, well, so-and-so say they're a Christian.
00:48:26Like, well, they're not really, not like we are, you know?
00:48:28It's like, so, you feel very isolated.
00:48:32You feel very, I don't know if you heard that, thunder.
00:48:35Yeah.
00:48:35You feel like, and I didn't like it.
00:48:40I think some people feel special.
00:48:42Maybe my parents felt special.
00:48:44I didn't feel special.
00:48:45I felt like, why did I have to be born into this?
00:48:47Even as a kid, I remember thinking, like, because my parents would say, well, you know, some people, they don't know any better.
00:48:53And, but you know the truth.
00:48:54And so, you know, you have to act, you know, you're held to a higher standard.
00:48:59And I'd be like, man, I wish I didn't know the truth so I could not be held to the higher standard and go and do fun stuff that other people do.
00:49:07Like, go bowling or, like, the movies was a sin.
00:49:10You know, at worldly entertainment, you couldn't go to sports games.
00:49:13And so, everything was on a Saturday and Saturday's Sabbath.
00:49:16And so, we can't do birthday parties.
00:49:19And holidays were bad because they're pagan, no Christmas, none of that stuff.
00:49:23Everything was like, seemed like all the fun was sucked out.
00:49:26So, I was like, but I'm supposed to be, I'm supposed to be grateful.
00:49:31And, you know, so it was, I struggled with a lot of guilt because of all that.
00:49:35Because I was like, oh, I'm sorry, God, I shouldn't, I shouldn't say that.
00:49:38Or I shouldn't think that I should be grateful, you know, that I'm whatever.
00:49:43So, I don't know if you felt that way as well growing up.
00:49:46Like, you're supposed to be grateful, but you kind of wish you didn't know all this hidden knowledge or whatever.
00:49:53You know, I think there's part of me that did.
00:49:55But people who are so deeply, deeply programmed in their head, they try to convince themselves that they don't want those things.
00:50:04So, I lived a life where I just simply didn't want a lot of them.
00:50:09But at the same time, my family was what I call cult royalty.
00:50:14We were allowed to do things that other families I'm learning could not do.
00:50:18For instance, I also went to public school.
00:50:21There was a large number of people who were, some of them are even uneducated or self-educated in the cult.
00:50:28And I went to public school up until I graduated high school.
00:50:31And then later I went to college, though it was strongly frowned upon.
00:50:37But because of who I was, we got to do some of the things that other people did not.
00:50:42Now, the bowling, I'll never forget playing my first bowling game.
00:50:46We were, I'd been married for, gosh, I want to say it was like five years, maybe seven years.
00:50:52I'd never, ever been bowling because this is the devil's game.
00:50:57And that's how we were taught.
00:50:59And the first time I rolled the ball down, I actually won.
00:51:03I'd never played before.
00:51:04And I won the game with four people.
00:51:06And they, the other three of the others had played, or two of the others had played.
00:51:12And they were shocked, like, you've never played?
00:51:15And I said, no, I've never played this.
00:51:16We weren't allowed to.
00:51:17And I realized there's nothing wrong with this game.
00:51:23So I started digging into the history.
00:51:25I wanted to know why, why this was outlawed.
00:51:29And it turns out that this was part of another broad fundamentalist craze.
00:51:34They thought it would bring heaven down to earth if they condemned the bowling halls.
00:51:39So anyway, I could go off in my story, but this is your story.
00:51:43If you could go back in time and give some advice to yourself when you were going through
00:51:49this and you wanted all of these things, what advice would you give yourself?
00:51:53Well, I would say, like, you know, read your Bible and trust the Bible over what someone
00:52:01else tells you, you know?
00:52:03And another thing would be, it's not wrong for you to want to be like other kids.
00:52:11Like, I was always taught that that was a wrong desire to have, to want.
00:52:16I mean, it became unhealthy.
00:52:18Like, I wanted to fit in.
00:52:20I was that kind of kid.
00:52:21I didn't want to be different.
00:52:22I didn't want to be set apart.
00:52:23I didn't want to, you know, my parents would make it seem like it's a great thing.
00:52:27Like, but that's nothing wrong with that.
00:52:30It's because I was lonely.
00:52:31I was isolated.
00:52:32You know, I wasn't allowed to hang out with other kids.
00:52:36I went to school and I went home.
00:52:37You know, the only other kids I hung out with was some cousins who were also in the same
00:52:44cult.
00:52:45And we would see them when we would do our prayer services, you know, every Saturday.
00:52:50In New Jersey, there was no church related to Brother Terrell.
00:52:54So, and my parents were not going to go to any other church.
00:52:58So, we would do our own stuff at home.
00:53:00So, yeah, I would say, yeah, like, it's okay to, you know, want to relate to other kids.
00:53:09But I guess, you know, one thing that came out of that was I really focused on reading
00:53:15and writing and art and it's like solo pursuits.
00:53:19And I got pretty good at it.
00:53:21So, I'm like, well, you know, I studied art in college, actually, and now I'm a teacher.
00:53:28So, you know, not being so social, it allowed me to focus on other skills, but it still affects
00:53:36me.
00:53:37Like, I still have a tendency to be isolated.
00:53:39Like, I go to a church, but I still don't really want to hang out.
00:53:43Like, there's just something in me that's like, I feel more comfortable by myself, but
00:53:50I have to, I'm kind of fighting to push past that and be okay with that, you know, emotional
00:53:55intimacy, so many things that, you know, like my parents were not focused on that.
00:54:01They're focused on me being obedient, me and my brother, not our emotional well-being, you
00:54:06know, feelings didn't matter, like, what, you know?
00:54:10So, all of that, I'm having to learn, you know, I'm like, I'm learning how to be a healthy
00:54:17human being now.
00:54:20And, you know, I know I went further than the question you asked me, but yeah, it's
00:54:27community is good.
00:54:28And, you know, being isolated is not good.
00:54:31It's not good at all.
00:54:32Yeah, there's a lot to learn after you've been in one of these groups.
00:54:36And I sympathize with everything that you've said.
00:54:39I struggle with many of the same struggles and many of the same freedoms I have trouble
00:54:45adjusting to because that's not what we had.
00:54:47That's not what we did.
00:54:49How would you, if you were to describe in a few sentences, how would you describe the
00:54:54difference between the church you attend now and the church that you've left?
00:54:59Yeah.
00:55:00So, the big thing that I, the first thing that came to mind is the leadership structure.
00:55:08And I know you've talked a lot about this on your channel.
00:55:11Because David Terrell, his ministry was authoritarian, right?
00:55:15He's the top.
00:55:16No one is holding him accountable.
00:55:18And even with the smaller churches, they all kind of follow the same thing.
00:55:22And so, there's no board, you know, there's no group that votes on stuff.
00:55:28It's just the pastor.
00:55:30Whereas here, you know, the pastor, like there's many services where he won't even preach.
00:55:36He'll just have people, you know, give testimonies.
00:55:38Or it's like he's not like the most important person in the church.
00:55:43That's not the impression that I get.
00:55:46You know, I get the impression that he values what all of us have to offer, like spiritually,
00:55:53not just, you know, we're not just like little sheep who are helpless.
00:55:58Like, we actually can edify each other.
00:56:01Whereas with the way I grew up, it was like, no, there's the man of God.
00:56:05And then there's other men of God, right?
00:56:09But there's a hierarchy.
00:56:12And, you know, you're a lowly church person.
00:56:15And you could never, you know, maybe you can give testimony, you know, they would, you
00:56:20know, people would give testimonies, but you're never going to be able to really edify the man
00:56:27of God.
00:56:28Like, you know, so a big thing that I've noticed is just more equality with the church.
00:56:35Like, that doesn't mean you don't have any structure, but I just, I really appreciate
00:56:39how it's not a one-man show, you know, that's a big.
00:56:45And biblically sound.
00:56:46That was the first thing I was looking for was, are they biblically sound?
00:56:50And then, you know, with that, the structure itself.
00:56:53Those are two big things for me.
00:56:55Darrell Bock Yeah, those are big things.
00:56:56I had a person who recently was asking me, they're trying to bait me, I think, in email,
00:57:02but they're saying, how can you tell if a church is biblically sound?
00:57:05And how do you answer that, right?
00:57:08Well, we'll read your Bible.
00:57:10All you have to do is read your Bible, and you can tell if it's biblically sound.
00:57:13But when you're in one of these groups that has manipulated you to think that you have
00:57:18to go to your spiritual authority to understand the Bible, you can't determine for yourself,
00:57:24is it biblically sound?
00:57:25Darrell Bock So it turns, it's a self-fulfilling problem
00:57:29that they create with this.
00:57:31But anyway, I feel like we could talk for hours.
00:57:34You and I are so much alike.
00:57:35And everything, we basically came out of the same cult, but two different flavors of it.
00:57:40Darrell Bock Yeah, I thought we were significant.
00:57:42Darrell Bock Yeah, it's such a crazy thing.
00:57:46Thank you so much for doing this.
00:57:48Darrell Bock Yeah, no, thank you.
00:57:49And if you want to know more about Brother Terrell, I have some more things I didn't get a chance
00:57:55to get into, but I can also ask around as well.
00:57:59And I would love to be connected to anyone, if they want to, people who reached out to
00:58:03you, because I don't know anybody else who's left this group, just me and I guess my brother.
00:58:11But I would love to be connected to any people who are still Christian, especially.
00:58:15They don't have to be, but I haven't met anyone.
00:58:19So, you know, if anyone would love to reach out or give me your contact info, whatever,
00:58:25I can give you my email.
00:58:26I would love to talk and answer any questions if I can and learn from them as well.
00:58:34Darrell Bock Awesome.
00:58:35Well, if you're interested in connecting with Victoria, you can contact me on
00:58:39william-branham.org's contact page, and I'll put you in contact with Victoria.
00:58:44So thank you again so much for doing this.
00:58:47Darrell Bock Thank you.
00:58:48It was a pleasure.
00:58:48It's kind of surreal, because like I said, I've watched so many of your videos, and now
00:58:52thank you so much for what you've done.
00:58:55Like I said, you've helped me connect so many dots, and I just want to contribute to
00:59:01that, you know, in any way I can.
00:59:03Darrell Bock Absolutely.
00:59:05Well, if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out
00:59:08on the web.
00:59:08You can find us at william-branham.org.
00:59:11For more about the dark side of the New Apostolic Reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion,
00:59:16From Christian Identity to the NAR, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.
00:59:28So thank you.
00:59:38Bye.
00:59:40Bye.
00:59:40Bye.
00:59:45Bye.
00:59:45Bye.
00:59:45Bye.
00:59:46Bye.
00:59:46Bye.
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