- 7 months ago
- #considerthis
Civilians in Gaza are dying of hunger—and now, from gunfire while queuing for food. As famine looms and humanitarian norms collapse, the world must decide:
How much worse must it get before red lines are enforced? On this episode of #ConsiderThis Melisa Idris speaks with Paul McPhun, Director for Southeast Asia and the Pacific at Doctors Without Borders (MSF).
How much worse must it get before red lines are enforced? On this episode of #ConsiderThis Melisa Idris speaks with Paul McPhun, Director for Southeast Asia and the Pacific at Doctors Without Borders (MSF).
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00:00Hello and good evening. I'm Melissa Idris. Welcome to Consider This. This is the show
00:15where we want you to consider and then reconsider what you know of the news of the day.
00:21Civilians in Gaza are dying of hunger and now from gunfire while queuing for food.
00:27Aid is being handled by a new Israeli and US-backed group. They've been rejected by the UN for lacking
00:34neutrality. Now as famine looms and humanitarian norms collapse, the world must decide how much
00:42worse must it get before red lines are enforced. Joining us now is Paul McFund, who's the Director
00:50of Southeast Asia and the Pacific at Doctors Without Borders, also known as MSF. Paul,
00:56thank you for joining us on the show today. Can you begin by maybe sharing a little bit about what
01:01the current situation, current humanitarian situation in Gaza is as MSF sees it on the ground?
01:08What are your teams witnessing day-to-day, particularly in terms of access to food and healthcare and safe
01:14shelter? Okay, sure. Yeah, it gets harder and harder to describe a situation that is fundamentally
01:21catastrophic. So the population have now been suffering more than 13 weeks of a complete
01:27siege. That means that they've not been able to have access to any humanitarian supplies, food,
01:34water, essential medicines, fuel, basic equipment for a very extended period of time. And that's had a huge
01:43impact on their health, clearly, and on their well-being. So Gaza is essentially under a deliberate
01:50and strategic siege by Israel to essentially prevent any support getting into Gaza. That's led to a massive
02:02problem of food insecurity. We now see food insecurity at crisis and catastrophic levels. And the UN are saying
02:11and predicting that 100% of Gaza is now currently at risk of famine. 100% of the population is at risk
02:19of famine. There's nowhere safe to go. The conflict continues to be waged openly across pretty much all
02:27of Gaza. So nowhere is safe at any given time. We now see that of 36 hospitals, only 22 are partially
02:35functioning. There is no hospital that has not been impacted, partially destroyed or made unable to
02:43actually fulfill its functions anymore. So 22 facilities now partially functioning. People are
02:51being forcibly displaced continually. So there are evacuation orders underway continually. People are being
02:58moved time and time again. And we continue to witness mass casualty events. So whether that's at these new aid
03:08distribution centers or simply the result of the conflict which is being waged indiscriminately across an
03:14urban area where civilians are simply bearing the brunt of that conflict. Supplies for us are incredibly
03:22limited now. So in the medical facilities where we're working, we're rational, we're rationing medication, we're
03:29rationing the use of supplies, we've reduced our services to basically the most essential life-saving surgical
03:35procedures, and simply because we don't have the means or capacity to do more. We're even reusing surgical
03:43supplies because we just have such limited options. And then at the level of the patients, we're seeing
03:52I think one of the most harrowing things that I've heard from our teams is just how difficult it is to
03:58treat people who've been suffering for so long. We have children suffering severe burns, bullet and
04:05shrapnel injuries, severe shrapnel injuries, loss of limbs, and they are not healing properly. They're not
04:11healing in the way we would normally expect because they are so malnourished. They lack protein, they lack
04:17essential micronutrients. So even injuries that we could treat are becoming life-threatening.
04:25And these are situations, these are problems that these children will now bear for
04:29the rest of their lives. So talking to our teams, it's a horror. It's an abject horror
04:37situation that is just completely untenable.
04:39Right. And it has been going on for 13 weeks, you say, the complete siege on Gaza. You mentioned new
04:49aid distribution centres earlier, Paul. What is MSF's view of the US and Israeli-backed Gaza
04:56humanitarian foundation that controls these aid distribution centres?
05:00Yeah, we are completely against this as a model of delivery of humanitarian aid. This is an attempt
05:09by Israel to essentially feign some kind of compliance with international humanitarian law.
05:16So to state it's doing something that is fundamentally not doing. And then using these aid distribution
05:23sites, this approach as a way to forcibly displace people in what appears to us very clearly to be
05:31systematic strategy of ethnic cleansing of the Gaza Strip. So these aid sites are coercive
05:38and militarised. Aid is conditional on your relocating to secure it in locations of the choice
05:47of the Israeli forces. Most importantly, this results in aid not being distributed and directed
05:54to where the needs are greatest. So the most fundamental humanitarian principle, impartiality,
06:01to get alongside people with the greatest need, irrespective of who they are, their identity,
06:05religion, background, and provide them with their essential life-saving needs where they need it
06:13most. So what this means is that if you're the most vulnerable, you're elderly, you're sick,
06:18you're a woman with young children, the chances that you're going to be able to relocate yourself to one of
06:24these locations in order to be able to receive aid under extremely dangerous conditions is, you know,
06:31it's a joke. It's simply not going to happen. So the most vulnerable are the ones that are going to
06:36suffer the most and have the least access to this model of aid. I would also make a second point,
06:46and that is that, you know, there's a strong claim at the moment that this model will prevent
06:54the diversion of aid. And there's a claim that, you know, allowing a free flow of aid into
06:59into Gaza allows that aid to be diverted and used by Hamas and maybe others. And I would like to say
07:08that, you know, this is a completely false claim. The issue here is not about the diversion of aid or
07:16the risk of diversion of aid. The issue here is 13 weeks of siege have starved a population. So,
07:26you know, the humanitarian collapse we see right now is the result of a siege. It's not the result
07:31of a risk of aid being diverted. So bringing in small inadequate amounts of food into a situation
07:39that is currently so catastrophic where population is so desperate
07:43is inevitably going to result in chaos. It's going to result in lootings. It's going to result in
07:50populations doing anything they can to get that aid. And this in and of itself has been used as an
07:55argument to say, this is why aid needs to be militarized because there's no other safe way to
08:00deliver it. All right. Paul, when you talk about, when you mentioned small amounts of aid, help me
08:06understand the GHS aid distribution centers. There are only a few of them and they are only providing
08:19small amounts of food, meaning that we have the most of the population of Gaza at the moment cannot
08:25receive this aid that's being distributed. So technically not a lot of aid. And what does it mean
08:31for aid distribution if the UN and other aid agencies who have refused to work with GHF,
08:40what does that mean in terms of practical terms for operations of other aid distributions in the
08:45Gaza Strip? Yeah, but this is where the situation is essentially so ludicrous. I mean,
08:50there is a system in place for the distribution of aid that can be done efficiently and effectively and has been
08:56the practice up until now. That has been suspended. It's basically been made untenable for anybody to
09:02operate in the way they would regularly operate. And instead, we have this system of privatized,
09:07militarized distribution centers. There are multiple distribution centers. Only one is actually functioning
09:13currently. They're in locations of the choosing of the IDF. That means they're in locations where they want
09:21to drive the population to congregate, to collect. They're not distributed where the needs are greatest
09:27or the population is of the most density. So it's forcing people, and there are mass evacuation orders,
09:34forcing people to then travel to these sites to secure aid along what are so-called safety corridors.
09:41And we know, and you've seen this rolling out in the media constantly, that there is no safe way to cross
09:48from one location to another in Gaza. And hundreds of people have been killed and injured simply trying
09:53to do that. So yeah, what we see, what our patients tell us is that they come under fire. They face huge
10:04insecurity. They feel that the act of going to try and secure or get aid for their family has become
10:12the danger in itself. So now there's a huge reluctance among the population to actually mobilize
10:18because they fear that in doing so, they'll be targeted on that journey.
10:24So this is a really, really pivotal point right now. And MSF is calling on Malaysia as ASEAN chair
10:31to do more, to push the block to do more. Can I ask you what exactly you're hoping Malaysia and ASEAN
10:40will say and do right now, as well as other countries around the world?
10:44Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the first thing I'd say is that MSF really commends Malaysia. It's been one
10:50of the countries that has really stood out, taking a strong leadership role, calling for a ceasefire,
10:55calling for unimpeded aid in Gaza. And this is highly commendable. What we want to say is that states,
11:04governments, countries like Malaysia, populations like Malaysia, they can go further. They have
11:11influence. They have a very strong platform. Malaysia currently with its role, its lead role in ASEAN
11:17can use its voice, can use its influence to try and increase pressure and influence others. So as a
11:23block, we can apply more pressure on Israel to concede to international demands. At the moment,
11:29Israel continues to act with complete impunity. There is no accountability for their actions.
11:38And we have to draw a line deeply in the sand and say that simply cannot continue. The issue here is,
11:44this is not just about the humanitarian crisis and what's unfolding. It's really becoming a test
11:51for the region and for global actors, to say, will they uphold the most basic principles of humanity
12:01and stand for those currently and put pressure on Israel so that it cannot continue to act with
12:09complete impunity. So what we would call for Malaysia to do is to use that influence, use that voice,
12:16and call for a lifting of the siege. That's the first thing. Demand a lasting ceasefire. Only if
12:23there's a ceasefire, some security and some stability can we, we hope to have, you know, any way to stop
12:32this mass loss of life and suffering. And then of course, to open borders, we need to open borders, we need
12:38to get humanitarian aid flowing. We need food, we need medicine, we need fuel, we need equipment. Gaza has
12:45become a mass grave for the Gaza, for the Palestinian population, but also for those trying to provide
12:52assistance. I mean, there have been 1,400 medical staff killed among those 11 of our own, of staff
13:00from our own organization. And so, yeah, this is, this is why we call on Malaysia, on ASEAN, on other
13:07states, to draw that line in the sand with us and say, yeah, enough is enough.
13:14All right. Paul, thank you so much for being on the show and highlighting this to us and sharing
13:20some of MSF's insights from the ground. Appreciate your time. Thank you. Paul McFunder, Director for
13:26Southeast Asia and the Pacific at Doctors Without Borders, also known as MSF. We're going to take a quick
13:32break here on Consider This. We'll be back with more. Stay tuned.
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