- 9 months ago
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00:00Shang-Goon has officially become a hated person in Warrior fan circles.
00:07The Steph Curry thumb injury has now become center stage national info.
00:13Isn't it interesting?
00:14That thumb's been injured the whole time.
00:16The whole time.
00:17Yeah, yeah.
00:18Now it's a story.
00:20Now it's a story.
00:22That, to me, is brilliantly played by the Warriors.
00:25You save it for when you need it.
00:27You don't burn that card in Game 1.
00:30You wait until now where you're coming home from Pivotal Game 6,
00:33and it's been a thing, and he's had the rap on it,
00:36but now it's a thing because you needed to play that card.
00:39Well, it's interesting because they got led to making it a thing.
00:42They didn't bring it up, but reporters suddenly started bringing it up.
00:46Do you think that, like, are they purposely going after his thumb?
00:50Draymond's like, it's obvious.
00:51Yeah, it's obvious.
00:51It's completely obvious.
00:52Well, it's been obvious, right?
00:54Like, it's not the first game where this came up.
00:56We talked about it on Monday.
00:57Exactly.
00:58And, you know, we talked about what the strategy was,
01:01and I called it brilliant.
01:02I'm not happy that they're doing it.
01:04I'm not happy that he's hurt, but if you're the Rockets
01:06and you want to limit the best player maybe on the planet
01:10and he's got a bum thumb, that's what you do.
01:13You try to get the thumb, and you try to do what you can
01:15to try to win the game.
01:16That's just pro sports.
01:18You and I vehemently disagree on that.
01:21Yep.
01:21I actually have some quotes from Jalen Rose.
01:26We can get into this in a little bit.
01:27From Jalen Rose, who purposefully hurt Kobe Bryant years ago
01:30in the finals, admitted it later.
01:34But to me, and I'll just leave this here,
01:37and then we can get back to these calls.
01:39If you do that and you call it brilliant and you say that's pro sports,
01:44I don't buy that, actually, because if you do that,
01:47if you go after an injury purposefully, you know, not like Stiney said,
01:52oh, we're going to target that guy because he's a weak point.
01:54No, no, no.
01:55If you're targeting the body part,
01:57you are literally trying to knock somebody out of the game
02:01by going after their injury.
02:03You are fully admitting that you can't beat that person straight up.
02:08You're admitting that you're a worse player.
02:10You're admitting that you're a worse team.
02:12And so I do not believe that all teams in pro sports would do this.
02:16No, all teams would not do it.
02:18They would not.
02:18If Dylan Brooks had an injured ankle, as he threw out yesterday,
02:23I don't think the Warriors would go after his ankle
02:26in a desperate attempt to get him off of the floor and out of the series.
02:30And he's not Steph Curry.
02:31Exactly.
02:31So if you're going up against Steph Curry,
02:34who is the greatest warrior in history,
02:36and he's one of the best players in the league right now,
02:38and he's giving you the business,
02:40well then, if you realize that you can't stop him,
02:43and maybe that's part of the admission,
02:44then the only way to maybe contain him
02:47is by clutching him, holding him, grabbing him,
02:50and going for the thumb.
02:52I think that's out of line.
02:53And again, I think it's an admission of weakness.
02:56But we can get into that in a little bit.
02:58I think actually it's part of what Peter,
03:01who's on 101, wants to talk about.
03:03Hi, Peter.
03:03Thanks for calling.
03:06Hey, how are you guys?
03:07I enjoy you all the time.
03:09You keep me company.
03:10I'm always on the road.
03:11Thank you, Peter.
03:11But as far as the whole targeting thing,
03:16you kind of took the words out of my mouth.
03:18To borrow from another league, the NFL,
03:21they actually specifically have a targeting rule.
03:25And I think this is a pretty easy fix from the rules.
03:30You have like a basketball play,
03:32and you have a targeting play.
03:35And, you know, there's those in-between things
03:37that are kind of hard to tell,
03:38but it's almost like the same thing of flopping
03:40that they kind of laxed up on
03:43after they put that rule in.
03:44But, you know, when it's obvious, it's obvious.
03:47And they watch the monitor.
03:49Just like when they call a timeout,
03:50hey, that was not a basketball play.
03:52It wasn't just inadvertent.
03:53It's part of the ball thing.
03:55They were doing it on purpose.
03:56They look at the play.
03:57Does it constitute targeting?
03:59And if it does, foul.
04:01And, you know, free shots and all that.
04:04So that's...
04:05And then I just have one little PS to that.
04:08But it has nothing to do with this.
04:09Just pet peeve, just for fun, throwing this in.
04:12The Beard Hardy made this whole Euro step,
04:15jumping up in the air, landing, taking another step.
04:18It's up and down, traveling, whatever you call it.
04:20And how many more steps are we going to have in the league
04:23before it's like sprinting the whole core
04:25before it's not traveling anymore?
04:27But that's what I have to say.
04:29Forget the PS, but the main thing I talked about.
04:32I'll listen to your comment.
04:33Yeah, Peter, thanks very much.
04:36Well, first of all, the comparison to, as he called it,
04:39targeting in football is not about targeting a specific injury.
04:44It's about targeting the head, always.
04:46Targeting is about the head.
04:47Right, right.
04:48So, you know, I don't know if there's an immediate, you know,
04:52spillover to the same kind of thing we're talking about
04:55with Steph Curry.
04:58I'll meet you halfway.
04:59I'm not saying that what you're saying doesn't happen.
05:02Right.
05:02It absolutely does.
05:04I don't believe that it should, number one.
05:07But number two, I mean, I'm not going to,
05:09none of us are going to come out here and say that and stop it.
05:12But I do think it's a weakness.
05:14I think it's an admission that you're not good enough
05:16to beat somebody straight up.
05:18Right.
05:19And by the way,
05:19allow that to be the case.
05:21And if you're a two seed, that's weak.
05:23Well, that's weak.
05:24I won't dwell on the seeds because the difference between a two and a seven
05:27is more narrow than ever before in the Western Conference in the history.
05:32If you're a good team, if you're a good team,
05:34why don't you think you can just beat the Warriors?
05:37Because you're not as good as the Warriors and you're not as skilled as the Warriors.
05:40That's our opinion, though.
05:42I don't think that's theirs.
05:43Whatever their opinion is, you're down three games to two.
05:46And last night you were down three games to one.
05:48So the results so far are indicative of the fact that they've beaten you three of the four.
05:52They beat you three of the five in the regular year.
05:55So you've played them, what would that be, nine times going into last night.
05:59And the Warriors are six and three.
06:01So the proof is in the pudding.
06:02And the head coach, Ime Udoka, is a very tough customer.
06:06He was as a player, and this is the way he approaches it.
06:09And the whole idea of targeting and cheap or not cheap, the rules are pretty clear.
06:15But the interpretation is a little vague.
06:18Because if the contact to the shooter's hand is incidental after the release, it's not a foul.
06:25And if it is excessive or hostile, or if it interferes with the follow-through, then it is a foul.
06:31So the referees have to, in real time, determine, okay, did he finish his follow-through?
06:37And even if he finishes the follow-through, if Dylan Brooks then comes in with a karate chop and hits the hand,
06:43and it's deemed excessive or hostile, yeah, then it's a foul.
06:48But it's a very, the gray area is pretty broad, and the referee has to interpret the act.
06:54I think I should play this for everybody right now.
06:56If you don't think about it, if it's a foul, they should call it.
06:59And that's it.
07:00By the way, by the way, he said that twice.
07:06Like, I think there's a very, very important part of this.
07:09And actually, Grandy and Lucas, take your time, but is there a way to go back and recut Steph Curry saying,
07:19if it's a foul, it's a foul?
07:21Because he said it twice.
07:22He said it twice.
07:24And there's a reason he said it twice that I think is incredibly important.
07:29This is, this was his response to the question.
07:33You don't think about it.
07:34If it's a foul, they should call it.
07:36And that's it.
07:37And then he waits.
07:39Two, three, four.
07:41And leans back in and goes, if it's a foul, they should call it.
07:47Yeah.
07:47The second part of it is clearly directed straight at the league and straight at the officials.
07:54The first part is answering the question in the room.
07:57The second part was directed at the officials.
07:59And that's the kind of subtle stuff that I think really plays in a playoff series.
08:05Because you better believe when the face of the league does something like that, it lands.
08:10It lands.
08:11They listen.
08:12And I think it's going to be in the room tomorrow night.
08:14Agreed.
08:14And I think a lot of it is determined by who the crew is.
08:17But, you know, the seed has been planted.
08:19And what did we talk about before?
08:21Well, you know, they're holding staff and they're restricting the freedom of movement.
08:25And he didn't necessarily complain about it.
08:27But the coach had mentioned it.
08:28And we all talked about it.
08:29And then you get back to the game three, I think.
08:32And there was a couple of quick ones where he was being held off the ball.
08:36And now we're going to call it because attention was drawn to it.
08:39And I do think this one is a point of emphasis that they have to look at, not only because it's Steph, but because it's a rule.
08:47And if it's a foul, then call it.
08:49And he's right.
08:50Yeah.
08:50And it's not incidental.
08:52Like, that's what I think we've sort of all arrived at.
08:54It's not incidental.
08:56Like, I'm sure sometimes it is.
08:58I mean, again, the point of contention is this.
09:01The league has stated at the start of this year, or maybe it was last year, that in the act of shooting an outside shot,
09:08that if the ball has been released and you're trying to challenge that shot and your hands kind of connect on the follow through after the ball has been released, that's not a foul.
09:19But as Steve Kerr detailed last night, what that has led to is players being smart and going, oh, so I can whack the hand after the ball leaves.
09:29Well, no, that's technically outside the rules because it's not incidental.
09:33It's purposeful, but that's very, very difficult to notice at full speed and within the game.
09:39So players are smart and they take advantage of a rule and move it a little bit further down the road.
09:46Steve says they're going to probably look at it and change it next year, but that doesn't do anything for anybody right now.
09:51What I think is going to happen tomorrow night is the officials are clearly going to have eyes now on whether or not this is truly incidental contact after the release,
10:01or do they feel like teams are going after teams?
10:05The Rockets are going after Steph's hand after the release of the shot, which everybody with the Warriors believes they clearly are.
10:13And if that's the case, I think you're going to get some calls on that tomorrow night.
10:17And by the way, if you do, holy hell, that's three points.
10:21Pretty much.
10:21Because those are going to be three.
10:22You know, odds are it's going to be a 2.8 out of three.
10:25He makes 90% or so.
10:27And I don't think that they're going to change the rule.
10:30I was texting with a couple of officials, friends of mine, and the league did some work to scale this back
10:37because too much of the three-point shooting was any contact before they changed the rule.
10:43It was always a foul.
10:44To your point, I'm looking at all of the shots that Steph Curry took last night,
10:48and his second three of the game, Warriors are down 13.8.
10:51He pump fakes Shangoon.
10:53He gets an open three.
10:55Guess who's coming to close out?
10:57Your favorite and mine, Dylan Brooks, the shots away, and Brooks basically just whack, whack, no foul.
11:05And it was clearly after the release, and it was not, in my opinion, incidental.
11:12And these are the ones you look at and you go, of course it's not.
11:15I mean, incidental is when I challenge you and our hands meet.
11:18On the follow-through, yes.
11:21Even after the follow-through.
11:21If I close out late and I'm up trying to block it and our hands meet with a high five, that's incidental.
11:28This man comes out and just...
11:29He's swinging.
11:30Yeah.
11:31It's a full-on clatter into the wrist and into the hand.
11:34Dylan was asked about it.
11:35Here's his answer.
11:36No, I've been playing the game.
11:37Shoot.
11:38If you're going to come play the game injured or whatever you got, it's all about the game.
11:43You know, if I had an injured ankle, I would attack that ankle every single time.
11:48Okay.
11:49This is a fascinating answer.
11:51Because what Dylan Brooks, to me, just said.
11:55Now, Stiney very much disagreed.
11:58But again, I want to play this for you again.
12:02Dylan is asked, are you purposefully going after Steph's thumb?
12:06Listen to the answer.
12:09No, I've been playing the game.
12:10Shoot.
12:11If you're going to come play the game injured or whatever you got, it's all about the game.
12:17You know, if I had an injured ankle, I would attack that ankle every single time.
12:21Okay.
12:21Let me answer it a different way.
12:23Yes!
12:26Yes!
12:28He flat out looked into the media's faces and said, yes, I'm going after his thumb on purpose.
12:37I, to be honest with you, I can't believe this isn't a larger story than it is today.
12:44That is dirty.
12:46It is a completed mission that you don't think you can win.
12:50That you don't think you're good enough to play the Warriors straight up and come out victorious.
12:56This is not Dylan Brooks saying, well, we see that there's kind of a weak point, so we want to attack a weak point.
13:04No!
13:05That's not what he said.
13:06What he said was, Steph's hurt, and I'm trying to make him more hurt.
13:11That's not basketball.
13:14That's dirty.
13:15That's an open, public, microphoned admission by Dylan Brooks that he's dirty.
13:22And I find that to be a massive turnoff, and I find that to be something that I hope the league is listening to today,
13:33and you better have six eyes on that thing tomorrow night.
13:38That's all.
13:42Yeah, I just, I don't see it quite the same way.
13:45And I'm looking at the two contests that Brooks had on Steph.
13:50The first one I mentioned, where it looks to me that he comes in very late, and it was not a shot contest.
13:57And he's going after the thumb.
13:59And then the second one I'm seeing, and this game's a 30-point game, he actually does contest,
14:03and he hits Steph after the shot, and this one seems to me to be incidental.
14:09So it's not like every time Steph has the ball that Brooks is out there trying to target the thumb.
14:14I didn't say every time, but when you say you see it differently, I'm talking about his quote.
14:18Don't look at the actions.
14:19Yeah.
14:19Are you disagreeing that Dylan Brooks right there is saying, yes, I am absolutely going after his thumb?
14:26Yeah, I don't think that.
14:27And you're okay with that?
14:28I mean, I'm not okay with it because I'm a Warrior fan, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's dirty.
14:32What if you, like, it doesn't?
14:34If you, if he's dribbling the basketball, and he's got the ball in his hand, and you go after the ball,
14:39which happens to be connected to his thumb, that doesn't become a dirty play.
14:43No, that's not what he said.
14:44And I'm looking at this three, where he goes up to contest a shot,
14:48and yeah, he's going to be aggressive knowing that Steph's got a bad thumb.
14:51That to me is just, it's grown-up pro sports.
14:54I don't think you're accurately portraying what's happening, nor is that accurately portraying what he even just said.
15:01What he said is, when a guy's hurt, basically, yeah, you go after the injury.
15:06That's right.
15:07That's what you do.
15:08Bounty.
15:09It's not a bounty.
15:10Yes, it is.
15:10A bounty is when you get paid.
15:13That's a bounty.
15:13A bounty is when you get paid for invoking an injury or inflicting an injury on another person.
15:19Did he get a check last night?
15:21I don't think that Udoka, unless I'm being blind to a handshake agreement,
15:26like, I'll give you a hundred grand extra if you get Steph Curry out of the game.
15:30That's what the bounty was.
15:31This has already happened with the New Orleans Saints.
15:33Right, this is not that.
15:34They were not given extra money.
15:36They were actual bonuses, yes.
15:38It was called Bounty Gate, and you were told, go knock this person out.
15:42And by the way, what's different about that is, that wasn't even targeting an already existing injury.
15:47That was just asking people to go attempt to injure people.
15:50And they've been doing that in football for decades.
15:54Not at that level.
15:55No, they haven't.
15:56Absolutely.
15:56Bill Romanowski used to come on our show and talk about, sometimes you've got to take a 15.
16:01And you just brought up literally the craziest human being in the history of sports.
16:06But he's not a lone actor in pro football.
16:09He is the extreme.
16:10There's no question.
16:11He is all the way at the end of one spectrum.
16:14You could still look at a football game and know that somebody's got an injury,
16:18and you could see opponents going after that injury.
16:21It happens.
16:22I'm not saying it doesn't happen.
16:23Right.
16:24It shouldn't, and if you're aware of it, league, you absolutely need to do something about it.
16:30And I can give you a thousand examples, especially in the NFL, of where the league has started to come after this.
16:35Well, all they can do is try to officiate the actions as they happen on the floor.
16:40Are you telling me that we can't see this with our own eyes?
16:44It's incredibly evident.
16:46Well, you can see it.
16:47You just said it with looking at the replay.
16:49Right.
16:49One of the three-pointers that he took where Brooks was guarding him, it looked to me like he committed a foul.
16:55It looked to me like he was overly aggressive and, you know, violence is probably too strong of a word.
17:02Yeah.
17:02And whether or not he did that to try to hurt the thumb or not, I don't have his intent.
17:07But just hearing his soundbite, he knows that Steph is hurt.
17:10Yeah, and that's only last night that you're watching.
17:13Right.
17:13This has been happening in the whole week and a half.
17:16Exactly.
17:16So they've made it known, and you may not like it.
17:21It may be distasteful, and I get that.
17:22It's completely distasteful.
17:23It's the reality of pro sports.
17:26Not always.
17:26Give me an example.
17:28It's a reality of pro sports.
17:29It is, and it needs to be legislated out, and if a player is absolutely openly admitting it in open court, that's also another level of this that's totally out of line.
17:43Like, I think it's crazy a coach gets fined because he comes out after the game and goes, I didn't like the officiating.
17:50I didn't like that call.
17:51We fined that guy, but we're not going to fined this guy who literally just said in front of a microphone, yeah, I'd like to knock Steph Curry out of this series.
17:59I would like the face.
18:00That's not what he said.
18:01Yes, it is.
18:02He said, I'd like to knock him out of the series.
18:04No question.
18:04He's got an injured thumb.
18:05You brought your injury onto the court.
18:07I'm going to try to make it worse and get you off of the court.
18:09The face of the league.
18:11You can't have that.
18:13You can't have that.
18:14I'm meeting you halfway that I know that there are wackadoodle brains who do this.
18:18Right.
18:18This is the playoffs.
18:19It is not.
18:20You're making it sound like it's everyone, and it's not.
18:22It's not.
18:23This is very rare that you would have a player.
18:26I mean, Jalen Rose has literally had to do documentaries because he did this in the NBA Finals.
18:32This is not something that happens every game at all and to every player.
18:37He has talked at length about what he tried to do to Kobe Bryant.
18:41Right.
18:41And admitted it.
18:42And admitted that it's wrong.
18:44And admitted that he only did it because he knew he couldn't win.
18:47Yeah.
18:48I mean, I don't know how.
18:49It just happens.
18:50I don't know.
18:50I mean.
18:51No, it doesn't just happen.
18:52It happens more than you think.
18:53It's premeditated.
18:54Right.
18:54And it's a play.
18:56Well, you're right.
18:57It's not okay.
18:57It's not okay.
18:58It's not okay.
18:58You know what?
18:59Tomorrow night when Steph Curry goes to shoot a shot and Dylan Brooks is on him, he's going
19:03to try to hit the thumb.
19:04Well, then he should actually be teed up.
19:07Right.
19:08It's not how it works.
19:08It is how it works.
19:09I mean, it might be an incidental contact.
19:11Why is that not a flagrant?
19:12He's not supposed to challenge a Steph Curry shot because he can't possibly contact Steph
19:17Curry's thumb.
19:18You can challenge a shot.
19:18You cannot purposefully go after any part of this body.
19:21Well, let's own the referees to make that determination.
19:23So do it, refs.
19:25Right.
19:25I know you love them.
19:26Right.
19:27But do it.
19:28Do it.
19:30Do it.
19:31It's that easy.
19:33If you don't think about it, if it's a foul, they should call it.
19:36That's it.
19:36If it's a foul, they should call it.
19:39If it's a foul, they should call it.
19:42Right.
19:42Okay.
19:43So do your job.
19:43They don't call every foul that occurs.
19:46I haven't called any of these yet.
19:47Yeah.
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