Skip to playerSkip to main content
CCNTV6
  • 1 year ago
The UNC sweeps Trinidad, the Tobago People's Party takes both seats, a political shake-up that took some by surprise.

In studio, political analyst Dr. Indira Rampersad breaks it all down. And live from Tobago, Martin George, head of the Tobago Business Chamber, joins us with the island's take.
Transcript
00:00This is Beyond the Ballot.
00:29I am Deesha Rambajan-Mali.
00:31The UNC sweeps Trinidad.
00:33The Tobago People's Party takes both seats.
00:37A political shake-up that took some by surprise.
00:40With us in studio now, we are political analyst Dr. Indira Rampasad to help us break it down.
00:45Good evening, Dr. Rampasad, and thank you for joining us.
00:47Hi, good evening, Deesha. How are you?
00:49I'm good. So, Dr. Rampasad, big moves, bold questions.
00:53This is Beyond the Ballot.
00:54So tell us, what do you think about this political shake-up?
00:58Let's do a little post-mortem.
01:01It is beyond the ballots because it's beyond the expectations of, I think, most even political scientists
01:08that the UNC was able to rest, you know, some of the marginals.
01:12Everybody was saying it was going to be too close to call, too close to call, but this was hardly close.
01:16And you tend to say that because it's very unpredictable because even when you do polls, people don't respond honestly.
01:23Some people don't respond.
01:24And, you know, polls are sometimes difficult gauge.
01:27They are also snapshots in time, you know, in a particular point in time.
01:30So what you don't know, and it's always an unknown factor, and more so in Trinidad and Tobago,
01:36is what exactly is going to play on the mind of the voter on Election Day when they get into that ballot,
01:43you know, that little room there where you cast your ballot.
01:45So what happened, I think, I mean, from my own conversations with people, particularly youths at UE and outside,
01:55is that they want to change.
01:57So they wouldn't say necessarily which party they were going to vote for or what they want to change from,
02:03but they were saying they're looking forward to some change.
02:06So I think that is what manifested itself.
02:07So do you think that that need for change or people being fed up of the last government was the dominant factor in creating this shift?
02:16Or to what extent was it the UNC's political campaign?
02:21So I think it's more than one factor.
02:23That was the high level of disenchantment and disgruntlement, 10 years of it, and particularly the crime.
02:30You see, one of the things people didn't calculate is an average of 600 crimes per year.
02:35You multiply that by 10, and you're looking at victims and relatives here.
02:39And certainly most of these relatives would not want to vote back on incumbent because, as far as they are concerned,
02:45the government was responsible for the crime because they are supposed to enact, whether it was legislation, policies,
02:51you know, manning the border, not allowing the guns into the country.
02:55To some extent, they see the government as responsible.
02:58So that crime was a critical factor, and neck-to-neck with the economy,
03:04and with the economy came a lot of ills that the population did not want to handle.
03:10And we're talking about escalating prices of food, fuel, housing, transportation, I mean, enormous increases.
03:17We're talking 40-something percent, then property tax, then the foreign exchange crisis,
03:23then the high level of unemployment amongst the youth.
03:26There were so many economic issues that the population had to deal with.
03:30And many were actually talking about migrating, some migrated, especially the relatives of the victims of crime.
03:38Let's go back a little bit to crime in particular, right?
03:41What do you think about some of the choices, as you were saying, some of the policies that were not put in place?
03:46But what about some of the choices, the choices of the ministers of national security,
03:51the issues with the choice of a police commissioner and how that was done?
03:55What effect would this have had in particular, those specific positions?
04:00So the effect would have been a sort of ripple one in that they didn't resolve the crime problem.
04:07So it was a more general issue of crime.
04:09But those measures, people were looking carefully to see if it would be reduced.
04:13And even on the day of the rally, we heard about three sisters being raped, brutally raped and whatnot, and attacked.
04:19And there were crimes continuing even through the state of emergency, which didn't work.
04:23So even though they were putting some measures in place, they didn't work.
04:27And that was playing on the minds of the population.
04:29So I think crime was a number one factor.
04:31But you ask about the UNC campaign, and I think it was highly professional, very well organized,
04:36compared to other rallies before, 2020 and 2015.
04:41I was on the ground in both the PNM and the UNC rallies.
04:44And UNC rallies had about three to four times more people than the PNM rally, highly energized.
04:49And I can't say the same for the PNM one, because even when Minister Stuart Young was speaking,
04:55Prime Minister Stuart Young was speaking, for almost an hour, you just saw a few flags waving.
05:00But the energy that you experience and electricity in the UNC campaign, it was just amazing,
05:07in addition to the layout of the stage, the music, you know, all of these added.
05:11But before that, it was the branding and the marketing and the use of social media extensively.
05:18Now, both parties used it, but I think the UNC managed to do it much more effectively.
05:23And also that theme song, When UNC Win, Nobody Wins, which we found in our little children singing.
05:29Some of them don't even know what it means.
05:30People found it was catchy.
05:31Yeah, it was extremely catchy.
05:32I know a few people who were PNM diehards were humming that tune just because it was so catchy.
05:36It was a catchy tune.
05:37Yeah, well, similar to a tune that PNM had, I think, in 2015, you know, we love you so we take a pair of you.
05:43Yeah, I think it was 2010 when Mr. Manning was around.
05:45Yes, it may have been 2010.
05:47So, you know, these things are very, very important.
05:50The tunes, even the colors, you know, the colors that they use.
05:55What about the transition, the movement from yellow and incorporating that blue into it?
06:00So it was showing, I think, because I tried to...
06:03Color psychology, right?
06:04Yeah, and I asked, I got no responses as to why.
06:06Blue, but my own analysis is perhaps it's that you're showing that you're broad-based in the party beyond the UNC base, the traditional yellow.
06:14I mean, the UNC was traditionally seen as an Indian Hindu party.
06:18To what extent do you think that they were able to expand on that image or change that image or revamp?
06:25Is it seen as a national party now with the inclusion of the Coalition of Interest and some of their rebranding techniques, as you would have referenced?
06:35Well, certainly in the executive, we see a mix.
06:38In the candidates, we see a mix.
06:40And when you ask about the choice of candidates, so you had Alexander, yes, coming to deal with an issue, but at the same time, being a non-Indo,
06:48you always have Julian John there, you have Sean Sobers, so you have a number of non-Indians.
06:52But at the rally, that was clear.
06:55So whereas at the PNM, it was pretty ethnically homogenous, at the UNC rally, so it's a wide variety of diversity.
07:04So there was, for example, the age diversity.
07:08You had youths, you had middle-aged, you had elderly people there, you had mixed, you had Afro, you had Hindu, you had, it was, you know, across the board.
07:16But the Hindu base is there, so I think the base is predominantly Hindu and Hindu, and that would account for the safe seats.
07:23But you can't win elections in Trinidad on safe seats, and they have learned that.
07:28So that's why it was a battle for the marginals.
07:30But Dr. Rampasazi, PNM was the incumbent government for 10 years.
07:35They called the election a snap election.
07:37I'm not sure, what is, what do you think they were thinking when they called the snap election?
07:44I think everything backfired.
07:46I think everything backfired.
07:48Perhaps Dr. Rowley did not want to face the electorate himself, and he shied away from it.
07:54I foisted him.
07:55Yeah, let's talk about that.
07:56Let's talk about the transition from Dr. Rowley to Stuart Young.
08:00I foisted him on the PNM, I think, more than the population on the PNM.
08:06I'm not sure they were ready for one, a non-Afro leader.
08:09That's one, that's the ethnic factor.
08:11But I think the biggest factor here was the class factor.
08:14I think this was a proletariat revolution.
08:17You know, in the university, we talk about Marxism.
08:19It's a class struggle, and we see the role of the unions in particular.
08:23So there he was with, you know, with an accent talking to the PNM base,
08:27and I think many of them could not identify, given his background as well,
08:31despite the claims of being born in DBA or Henry Street, wherever it was.
08:35I'm not sure.
08:36But I think those factors played.
08:39Some people said from the very beginning when he was put as the prime minister
08:43that they're going to lose the election because of that ethnic factor.
08:46But I think the class factor played bigger than that
08:48because it's also how Minister Imbert, Minister of Finance at the time,
08:53was dealing with the trade union issues.
08:55You know, the 2% and the 2% throwing that in people's faces.
08:59And the most powerful card, and I had said it to the media when I was interviewed on this,
09:04when Dr. Rowley agreed to the recommendations,
09:09to accept the recommendations of the Salaries Review Commission for 47% for him
09:13and 2% for everybody.
09:15So they were chanting, I mean, my members, you know I'm a trade union leader as well,
09:19they were chanting 47% for he and 2% for we.
09:22And I think, not that chant, but that whole idea, that was political suicide.
09:27And then you're going to leave, then you announce your resignation shortly after as the prime minister.
09:33So it was fresh in people's minds.
09:34And you're getting approximately a million dollars pension as you go.
09:38So it's all of you with 2% stay there.
09:41I mean, even up to the very end, the week of the elections,
09:44the other union in the university got 2% and they wouldn't budge in,
09:48even during election time.
09:49They were not budging.
09:51So you claim that you didn't have money to pay more,
09:53ban your belly, and next time you'll get more.
09:55But here, the government officers and prime minister in particular,
09:58I was the one saying this,
10:00throwing 2% at the population and accepting 47%.
10:03So I think that was the biggest pull.
10:06I think the union, the class factor was the most powerful
10:10because the disconnect, you see, the disconnect between, you know,
10:14what you call the bourgeoisie and the proletariat in Marxist theory,
10:18that disconnect widened and it really angered a lot of PNM supporters.
10:24Now you have to understand that every other person is a worker.
10:27And when you get these kinds of salaries, it affects your pockets.
10:30And that is very, very intimate and close to the mind and the heart
10:33and the livelihood, life and livelihood of people.
10:36And the snap election, though, even though there was a transition
10:39from Dr. Rowley to Stuart Young as prime minister,
10:43I mean, he called the election the next day.
10:46Would he have benefited from perhaps waiting until September or later on down?
10:52Why did he call the election early?
10:54Because twice they called it early.
10:56I understand he wanted to call it even before that,
10:58and then his people didn't want it, you know, his executive mayor, his cabinet.
11:02But why call it early anyway?
11:04And why didn't he run as prime minister and then resign after?
11:08Because it ended up being a mess,
11:10having one person as prime minister and one person as political leader, right?
11:15And the same thing is going to happen because now they're going to have,
11:18we don't know if one is opposition leader and one is political leader.
11:21Well, I guess we'll have to wait on Wednesday.
11:23But let's take a short break and we will continue this discussion
11:26with Dr. Rampasad when we come back.
11:28Dr. Rampasad when we come back.
11:58A great mom because to us, she's so much more.
12:01Only at courts.
12:03Bringing value home.
12:04Conditions apply.
12:05And everybody might be here.
12:14Yeah.
12:14Yeah.
12:21For me, I have to ask.
12:22Why eat other snacks when sunshine has the best for you?
12:26Nature's best buns are crunchy.
12:28The flavor that sings to you.
12:30Salted, plantain, taste of freshness.
12:34Natural, sweet.
12:36The flavor that sings to you.
12:40Sunshine, sunshine, sunshine, you sing.
12:44And everybody may be here.
12:48The flavor that sings to you.
12:54Heyo, nature's best buns.
12:56When you have the flu, sometimes you feel like you want to throw in the towel.
13:00Good thing relief is one hit away.
13:02Just when you need it.
13:03Panadol multi-symptoms.
13:05Relief in minutes, seven cold and flu symptoms.
13:07So I can get better quickly and fight again.
13:10Panadol release starts here.
13:11This Easter, get up to 1% off interest rates on loans at Police Credit Union.
13:16Ask about our quick approval, flexible repayment and our wide selection of loan options.
13:22Apply online at policecreditunion.com or apply in person before April 30th, 2025.
13:28Normal lending criteria and terms and conditions apply.
13:31Welcome back.
13:43You're watching Beyond the Ballot on the TV6 News, where we're discussing the recent general elections.
13:50The highs, the lows, the victories, the losses.
13:52And we have with us Dr. Rampasad and we're now joined via Zoom by head of the Tobago Business Chamber, Mr. Martin George.
14:01Good evening, Mr. George, and thank you for joining us.
14:04Yes, hi.
14:05Good evening to you and good evening to Dr. Rampasad and good evening to all your viewers on TV6.
14:12Mr. George, let's get your reaction to this political shake-up.
14:16Mr. Farley-Augustin would have said that the two seats were an important win for Tobago.
14:22To what extent do you think this is an important win and how do you expect it to affect governance in Tobago?
14:29Well, the two seats have to actually be looked at in context of the entire victory.
14:34And I think the entire victory has been such a shake-up and a wake-up that I think everybody in the nation has to take notice of it.
14:43You know, I mean, of course, the primary recipients of the lesson would be the PNM party.
14:49But I think the nation as a whole has to begin to understand that persons are no longer prepared to continue to sit and suffer in silence, so to speak.
15:01So, you know, I mean, there are those who, you know, are, you know, living lives of quiet desperation.
15:07And that's very obvious from the fact that, you know, you've had so many price increases, you've had so many other aspects of life that have, you know, gone up and have become more difficult and challenging for parents in terms of school books, in terms of, you know, getting, you know, supplies for children, you know, food prices have gone up.
15:26So, therefore, you really are in a scenario where people have, I think, reached a breaking point and they've sort of reached a limit.
15:36And, you know, it's reminiscent, Disha, in a way, of the days of, you know, that foreshadowed the French Revolution.
15:43You know, when they went to marry Antoinette and they said, you know, milady, the peasants are starving, they have no bread, you know, and she contemptuously said, you know, well, let them eat cake.
15:54You know, it's that level of disconnect that apparently fueled this victory this way because people felt that, look, all my cries are falling and deaf ears and, therefore, I am not able to make a difference or make my voice be heard except by the use of my finger, you know, on voting day, on election day.
16:17And I think the people resoundedly did so.
16:20So, we were doing a bit of a post-mortem before you joined us and we were speaking about, you know, what happens now in terms of an opposition leader.
16:28And Dr. Rowley had said, well, they'll have to wait until Wednesday when they meet at Ballysay House.
16:33How do you think that that is going to work out?
16:37Well, you know, I mean, the thing is, of course, you will have the internal rumblings because there was a scenario where I think Ms. Penelope Beckles and I think Mr. Foster Cummings had, you know,
16:49basically thrown their hats in the ring to be apparent to, you know, the legacy of Dr. Rowley.
16:56And it seems that, you know, Mr. Stewart Young was the favored son, you know.
17:03So, I would imagine that having now seen the results of the elections, questions will be asked.
17:09Well, you know, is it that, you know, you should continue on as political leader and leader of the opposition?
17:16Or is it that, you know, someone else should get a chance?
17:19Now, in fairness to Mr. Stewart Young, I mean, he really didn't have any time in the office as prime minister, you know,
17:26or in any position of leadership to really stamp his mark or make, you know, what he might have felt to be a difference in that portfolio.
17:32But don't you think that was his choice?
17:34Or do you think that was thrust on him to call the snap election?
17:38One gets the impression that all of this was orchestrated beforehand.
17:43I don't imagine that Dr. Rowley would have made that type of move without having prior discussions that, well, hey, listen, this is the playbook.
17:52This is the game plan we're going with.
17:53You know, I'm going to anoint you and then have them appoint you.
17:58And then, you know, we will call the elections and I guess hopefully catch the opposition off guard.
18:03And, you know, it backfired spectacularly in that sense.
18:08And again, there's a lesson to be learned in terms of calling snap elections in Trinidad and Tobago.
18:13You know, it has sometimes disastrous consequences, as we have seen on three occasions now, you know, with the PNM.
18:21So I think that definitely that was part of the game plan prior to, you know, the anointing and the appointing.
18:31And I would imagine that really and truly there may not have been much choice in his corner to say, well, hey, listen, let me get some months in.
18:39You know, go to August or you have an additional three months thereafter, you know, that you could have stretched it to and, you know, let him get his feet wet, let him be able to bring his own gravitas to the office of Prime Minister and be able to show people, well, this is what we're doing.
18:54But the thing is, Disha, there's also that's a two egg sword, because when one looks at it, if it is that you are there for a few months and people are not seeing any improvement in the quality of their lives on a daily basis, then people will begin to ask and wonder, well, hey, what's the point?
19:12What's the difference?
19:13You know, you may have as well called the election sooner, if you understand me.
19:16And there didn't seem to be any immediate sweeteners along the corner that, you know, we could have anticipated that would have placated the public.
19:26And I think definitely having called the election, you know, basically he was hoisted upon his own petard and, you know, basically he suffered the consequences.
19:37Well, let's take a short break.
19:38When we come back, we will deal with the way forward for the UNC government and we'll get the thoughts of Mr. George and Dr. Rampasad.
19:45Stay tuned.
21:14Let me see you rock off, rock off, shake off, shake off.
21:19Let me see you rock off, rock off.
21:20Let me see you kick right, now kick left, now step forward, now step back.
21:25Lucozade, bring the energy.
21:27When you have the flu, sometimes you feel like you want to throw in the towel.
21:30Good thing relief is one hit a week, just when you need it.
21:33Panadol Multi-Symptoms, relief in minutes, seven cold and flu symptoms,
21:37so I can get better quickly and fight again.
21:40Panadol, relief starts here.
21:44Welcome back to the TV6 News.
21:55This is our segment, Beyond the Ballot,
21:56where we're discussing the general elections, yesterday's victories and the losses.
22:03So let's move on to the new UNC government, which is a coalition of interests.
22:09How do we expect this government to be configured?
22:12What role do you all see the coalition parties playing in this dynamic of a government?
22:20Well, most of them, I think all of them, didn't win their seats outside of the UNC,
22:25so that's a PEP and a COP.
22:28In Libre?
22:30Well, the Labour.
22:31Well, we're not sure. I think they're not sure.
22:33Today, then, I don't know if it was...
22:35The last that we heard was that Labour was declared for Libre.
22:39Right, so they might have a role to play, maybe, Minister of Labour.
22:44But it's going to be interesting.
22:45But let's talk about the COP and PEP, for instance.
22:47Right, so your government has 16 senators, so there's always that room to bring in,
22:53and you can bring in losing candidates.
22:55I mean, that's a precedent that's been set a long time ago.
22:58So you can bring in losing candidates into the Senate.
23:02Prakash Ramada, for example, has been a minister of legal affairs under the partnership,
23:06so he has that experience already.
23:09Philip Alexander, you know, pretty experienced in the public arena with all his messaging and whatnot.
23:15It might be a first stint at a senatorship or even a ministership if he is given one.
23:20But I think, you know, it will be interesting, the Attorney General,
23:26which should be sworn in this week soon, or with the Prime Minister,
23:31who would be the Attorney General select.
23:34I'm not sure.
23:35I mean, I don't know how this is going to be distributed,
23:38but there are some 27 seats, so many of them are MPs.
23:44Many of them will be part of the Cabinet and the Legislature.
23:51And then they're going to be the 16 senators.
23:54So it's left to be seen how that is going to work,
23:58which is going to appoint where.
24:00Some of them were shadow ministers already before an opposition.
24:05Right.
24:05So they may remain in that portfolio as the substantive minister.
24:10It's left to be seen.
24:11Mr. George, what do you think?
24:12What role do you see the coalition of interests
24:15and the party leaders of the other parties playing,
24:18especially since they would not have won their seats,
24:21playing in the UNC government?
24:24I mean, before in 2010, when it was the partnership,
24:26we called it the People's Partnership Government.
24:29Now it's a coalition of interests.
24:30Are we saying what the UNC government is?
24:32It was an accommodation.
24:33Right.
24:34So they didn't come back.
24:35What's the technicality here now?
24:37So in the People's Partnership, it was a coalition.
24:40It was a strong force in that they all came under the banner of the partnership.
24:44But in this configuration, they retained their identities.
24:48So you had the PEP retaining its identities.
24:49So this would be called a UNC government?
24:52Well, I would be interested in what they would call it.
24:54It is a UNC government.
24:55I think it would be a UNC government.
24:57It's another way to describe it.
24:58And then all of them, most of them who won are UNC.
25:01So yes, it doesn't come under an umbrella of a coalition per se.
25:05Right.
25:06Mr. George?
25:07So, yes, so the thing is, Disha, I mean, the reality is that it is a UNC government.
25:12At the end of the day, you don't have any other political party in the union who has any seat that you can say,
25:20well, hey, listen, this is, you know, not a UNC seat, so to speak.
25:24So it is a UNC government.
25:26But what I think normally happens is that the leaders and those who are major players of those who gave the fringe support,
25:35I guess they would get certain appointments either to boards or in the Senate or, you know, that kind of thing.
25:41And maybe even ministerial appointments, depending on how favored, highly favored they are.
25:47But the point is, you will all be subsumed under the body politic of the entire machinery of the UNC.
25:55And it's only practical because you cannot allow any great degree of individualism or adventurism by any one of these other, you know, coalition partners, so to speak,
26:08because you really want to have an agenda whereby everybody's on board, facing the same direction, heading, you know, to the same place.
26:16So, you know, I would think that they would either be whipped into shape or whipped out of place.
26:22It's one or the other.
26:23I mean, this is Mrs. Passat, obviously, her second term as prime minister.
26:29And she would have had, you know, as we just spoke about a partnership before,
26:32and she would have had issues, I mean, with the partnership and labor and all of those things.
26:35There are always issues with coalitions.
26:38And I mean, in this particular case, she would have had, you know, specifically in the last 10 to 15 years,
26:45instances with, let's say, the OWTU and PEP where they were specifically lashing out at her and targeting her.
26:53But she's in a better position this time.
26:55Some of them have had things to say.
26:56So there are some old wounds that could resurface, you know, and persons could, you know, feel groused and, you know, bring forward their animosities.
27:05What level of risk is she going to take at this point?
27:08You know, it's one thing to be in an election together, but be in a government together.
27:13I think she's in a better position in that.
27:15Yeah, I would imagine she wants her peace at this point.
27:17Keep them happy.
27:18Give them, you know, things that they would be happy with in terms of appointments, et cetera.
27:23But at the end of the day, there comes a point in time when you must draw a line in the sand.
27:28And I'm pretty sure she will do so.
27:30She's been able to do so even with members in her one party.
27:33I mean, look at what happened.
27:35Look at Rushton Paré.
27:37Look at so many others.
27:38The thing is, she's a seasoned politician, having gone through, you know, all the challenges and faced down Mr. Pandey in his own den.
27:49You know, the lion, you know, the silver fox himself.
27:54So Ms. Persapisessa, she knows this game very, very well.
27:59So, of course, you will come with the, you know, steel fists in a velvet glove.
28:04But if it is that persons are not cooperating or not playing the role that they're supposed to, you will quickly take off the velvet glove and all they'll feel is steel.
28:12You know, and that's the reality.
28:14That's the politics is, you know, a scenario where if you think of the English poet Thomas Hobbes, you know, it's a situation where he says, you know, life has become short, sharp and brutish.
28:25Politics is always short, sharp and brutish.
28:28That's the nature of the game.
28:29That's the nature of the beast.
28:30So I think that the coalition partners are soon going to realize that, hey, listen, at the end of the day, we need to toe the line and become part of the UNC machinery in that sense,
28:45because too much individualism or adventurism would not be tolerated for very long.
28:51You know, one of the things that we hear on the ground, and you always hear it every election, you hear it all the time, in fact, is the relationships that constituents have with their MPs.
28:59They're always, I mean, they're always saying that they do not see their MPs enough.
29:03They do not see their MPs enough.
29:05And then particularly when they go into government, I mean, you have a person who is an MP, who is also a minister, who may also have a party role.
29:14I mean, it really is unrealistic to properly fulfill all three roles.
29:18I mean, do you think that this time, or do you think that there should be a bit of a separation between being an MP and a minister, just so that people are able to adequately fulfill these roles and serve their constituents in a particular way?
29:34That would be the ideal, but it's not always practicable.
29:37Why do you think it's not practical?
29:39It's not practical, because then you're going to have to be bringing in other people into the ministerial portfolios.
29:46Other people who, and those who fought the seats, the MPs would say, so I'm the one to do the dog work in the ground there and, you know, fix the box trains and the bridges.
29:55I fought the election.
29:57I, you know, this was a grueling five weeks for me.
30:00I didn't sleep, and someone else enjoys a ministerial portfolio, which is seen as the more, you know, the more luxurious post.
30:08So I think it would breed some kind of discontent, some kind of bitterness.
30:14Practically, if it could have worked, it would have been done already.
30:18And then, keep in mind, then you have to give them two different salaries.
30:23So it is also a burden in the coffers to be paying all these people, and you have more under your wing to manage, and that becomes challenging for the leader.
30:34So I still do think that it's an easier ride for her this time than in 2010, in the sense that the majority of the MPs, I'm not sure, we're still not sure about LaBray,
30:45but the majority of the MPs come from the UNC, and she will be in a better position to manage them because, you know, when the others, for example, when Abdullah pulled out, he was MSJ.
30:56You know, when the coalition started to crack, it was people from other parties, and she was very, very careful, I think, in her selection of candidates.
31:04She made sure that she took the people who are loyal to her, the dissidents, the so-called dissidents, they were thrown out.
31:11It didn't impact the elections negatively in any way.
31:15The presence of Anita and Rambly in the PNM platform, I think, backfired tremendously.
31:20I think it actually worked in the UNC's favor because those people looking on to it, you know, one minute you're against, well, nine and a half years, you're against the PNM,
31:29and suddenly you're with the PNM, so where do you really stand?
31:33So that kind of thing also played in the results.
31:36But I think she's in a better position.
31:39Now, governing a country like Trinidad and Tobago is also extremely challenging because of the diversity, diversity in so many ways, the ethnic diversity,
31:48and because of the high expectations.
31:49We are people who believe that our government has to provide for us, and they have to provide everything for us.
31:56And in some ways, we are spoiled as well.
31:57Okay, well, speaking about people believing in a government that has to provide a lot for us,
32:03a lot of campaign promises were made by both parties, but, I mean, the UNC has won the election.
32:09So, I mean, people are expecting the fulfillment of some of those promises.
32:14And people have been saying, well, you know, how are we going to fulfill some of these promises?
32:17They seem unrealistic.
32:18Whether or not the country has enough money for this, Mr. George, you want to tell us what you think about
32:22how these campaign promises are going to be fulfilled?
32:26Will they be fulfilled?
32:28Well, I think the UNC won the war of the roses, so to speak, when it came to the promises on the election trail.
32:36And they definitely made it attractive to the voter if it is that these promises can be realistically fulfilled.
32:47Now, I think most economists who have already assessed and analyzed the scenario have come to the conclusion that, realistically,
32:57they cannot all be fulfilled, and maybe most of them may not be fulfilled to the extent or in the manner in which they were delivered.
33:04But, of course, we understand that that's the nature of politics.
33:08In other words, you have the rhetoric on the, you know, platform and the campaign trail where, you know, they promise you...
33:15Yeah, but, Mr. George, you think people are going to accept, oh, well, that's just politics.
33:20That's just the campaign.
33:21Are they looking out for the fulfillment of, you know, things like back pay and the reopening of patrification?
33:27Well, I think not all can be fulfilled in the short run.
33:30First of all, there's a nice exit clause in that there's the blame game, the perennial blame game.
33:37So, therefore, you come into government, you say, hey, listen, people, you know, I really promised you this,
33:42but have you seen the state of the Treasury?
33:46Have you seen how the previous government has left it?
33:49We are not able to deliver on these promises because the situation is much worse than we imagined,
33:55and you start your, you know, so you are walking back your rhetoric and your promises from there.
34:03So, you start saying, well, hey, listen, we promised you 10%, but based upon what we are seeing here,
34:09you really cannot get 10%.
34:10We might have to work with six or we might have to work with four, you know, and you basically talk it down
34:15because at the end of the day, you yourself knew when you made these grandiose promises
34:21that they could not all be fulfilled in any realistic manner without us going through basically a slippery slope
34:29down to the IMF, which I don't think anybody wants to see Trinidad and Tobago in at this point.
34:34One more thing before we wrap. I think we just have two more minutes.
34:38One of the things that they promised was no devaluation.
34:41Now, you're saying when they go in and they check out the situation, can we expect something different?
34:46I don't think they are going to devalue. I think they actually said that in the platform that they're not going to devalue.
34:52The PNM was saying that. They said that. I don't recall them saying that they're going to devalue.
34:56I think that would make the government extremely unpopular.
34:59I don't think they want to be unpopular, so not so early in the game.
35:03Also, I think that they would not be able to realize everything in the short run, and they know that.
35:08They never said that. They will do it immediately upon, you know, assuming office.
35:12But I think gradually they would want to try, because a lot of the hopes of the people are dependent on those promises being fulfilled.
35:25So at least they're going to have to try. It is lofty, a lot of them, yes.
35:30But we made promises, and the expectations are going to be there.
35:34I certainly don't expect them to be fulfilled in the short term, perhaps some not even in the medium term.
35:40Mr. George, a quick wrap.
35:42On the note of devaluation, I think that definitely that is a flashpoint and a sore point for all small Caribbean economies and small Caribbean states.
35:55You know, from the time a population hears that, it's basically almost political suicide for any government who, you know, announces that.
36:03You saw Barbados fight against it, you know, furiously, because Bijans, they feel so much pride in the value of their dollar, okay?
36:11Even though realistically, sometimes it might be the best thing, but politically, it's suicide.
36:18We all know that.
36:18So I don't see that voluntarily coming.
36:21It's only if we end up in the loving embrace of the bosom of the IMF, then that may be something that is thrust upon us, rather than, you know, voluntarily undertaking.
36:35Well, we want to thank both of you for joining us for tonight's Beyond the Ballot.
36:41Dr. Rampasad and Mr. George, thank you for joining us.
36:45Let's take a short break.
36:46We'll be back with the people meter results.
36:47We'll be back with the people, thank you for joining us.
Comments