- 3/20/2025
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00:00Welcome along to the European Yearling Sale Review, where we get the perspective from
00:04a buyer, which is Sean Grassick, Bloodstock agent, and one of the leading vendors on the
00:09sale circuit, Bally Villain Studs, John Foley, where they talk through a range of topics
00:13looking back towards the European Yearling Sales.
00:22Delighted to be joined by John Foley and Sean Grassick as we look back on the European sales
00:27season.
00:28I think we'll start with Jesus Christ himself, who was busy turning water into wine all year,
00:33John Foley.
00:34I'm just going to read out some of the results you enjoyed, John.
00:37We've got a Havana Grey Colt, 85 into 400, a Homebred Acclimation, 470 grand you got
00:44for that one, a Glen Eagles, 28 into 280, and as well as that, at the Orby, you've got
00:50a Calyx Colt, was 23 into 220.
00:53I mean, they're phenomenal touches, but it's fair to say the season didn't start off brilliant
00:57for a lot of pinhookers.
00:58I mean, it's really after taking by storm the last fortnight or so.
01:04Yeah, Jesus Christ, I don't know about that.
01:08Look, Brian, we had a very good year.
01:15I obviously had a particularly nice bunch of horses this year, which, to be fair, all
01:20year long we thought they were okay.
01:21We didn't think they were exceptional by any means, but they just prepped really well,
01:26and they turned up at the sales looking well, and yeah, on a personal level, it was very
01:33good.
01:34I had a lot of horses that vetted very well as well this year.
01:37There's a lot of luck involved in that.
01:41I think out of, we x-rayed 22 yearlings this year, I think 20 of them would have passed
01:46for Hong Kong.
01:47I'll never get that again in my lifetime, so when they vet good, it's a big help.
01:54We had some good pinhook results, which was great, but I think the sales on a whole for
02:03everyone was a mixed bag this year.
02:07What was good was very good, and then what was bad was terrible.
02:11Some people did very well, but I think across the board, most people would say that it was
02:16okay without being, you know, very few people had kind of a sales season, which they'd describe
02:24as a home run.
02:26The good was very good, and the bad was desperate.
02:30Okay.
02:31Did Tats take vendors by surprise?
02:33It seemed like it did.
02:34I don't think anybody would have forecast what was going to happen at Book One and Book
02:37Two in particular.
02:40Yeah, it did, to be sure.
02:44I think if you take the sales season as a whole, Doncaster was fine, and I think there's
02:52kind of a niche customer that goes there.
02:53I can't say too much about it because I wasn't there myself, but you know, I'd say it held
02:59its own.
03:00Somerville was a struggle for a lot of people.
03:03I think the second day definitely diluted the sale a little bit, and it made it hard
03:08work.
03:09Fairy House was fairly consistent.
03:10Goffs was pretty good, and then we got to Newmarket, and I think everyone was saying,
03:15hopefully, it'll continue on to Goffs, and it just was unbelievable.
03:19I think a lot of it is down to Ammo coming in in Book One, and they didn't buy any horse
03:26in Goffs, I don't think, and they were just uber competitive, and they added another dimension
03:38to it, and they drove the whole thing.
03:43They made Godolphin work very hard for the lots they bought, and Sheikh Mohammed is a
03:49big competitor there.
03:50He doesn't like to get bet, and when you have two big operations like that, and they get
03:54stuck into each other, then you get massive results, and that filters down to everyone,
03:59and I think that was kind of the main driver in Book One, and that continued on to Book
04:04Two.
04:06You know, whatever way you look at the market as a whole, we're still very, very reliant
04:12on a couple of very big players.
04:15You know, take them out of it, and we'd all be in a spot of bother, so we have to be very
04:20grateful for the couple of big household names that are there, and who are willing to spend
04:27a lot of money on horses in the hope of getting a good one, and without them, we'd be in a
04:31lot of trouble, I would think.
04:32I suppose the saying, a rising tide lifts all boats, kind of springs to mind, because
04:38it kind of filtered down to Book Three.
04:39Sean, you were one of the busiest buyers at Book Three, and you bought an array of different
04:44stallions, so for me, from the outside looking in, it looked as though the, I hate using
04:49the word the physical, because it's not actually a proper term, but it was the physical or
04:53the physique that stood out throughout the sales, so I mean, a good horse was still hard
04:58to buy.
04:59Yeah, absolutely.
05:00We found that 100%.
05:03Any nice horse that we followed in, we saw there was plenty of opposition there for them.
05:09Even in Book Two, those horses that we thought we might have a chance of getting, because
05:13maybe the pedigrees are on the light side, but even those couple of nice horses we thought
05:16might make 50, made over 100 in Book Two, then Book Three, like we wouldn't be afraid
05:23to buy a horse by a stallion that's not the most popular, or with a light pedigree, but
05:29we found even you needed nearly 30 grand to buy a nice physical in Book Three, or even
05:34more in some cases.
05:35It was very strong, and there was plenty of guys that you wouldn't see participating in
05:39Book Three there, still with orders to fill.
05:42So no, we found it very strong, and there was definitely this year, there was any nice
05:47horse, a good physical definitely made good money, but it's important for vendors and
05:52breeders to be rewarded for producing a nice horse, because it's not an easy thing to do,
05:56so it's important they get rewarded in the sales ring.
05:59Yeah.
06:00Then even at the top end, John, I thought it was brilliant to see so many horses making,
06:04or so many stallions, they're probably making 500,000 or more in the sales ring, you know,
06:10acclimation are big results, territories are big results, you know, what's in just your
06:14top-level stallions?
06:16So I mean, I'd always associate you with producing a really good-looking horse, no matter what
06:21the sire is, and I think that was reflective of some of the results you got this year,
06:24so would that maybe encourage a few more breeders to breed the racehorse going forward,
06:29given the variety of Book One and Two was so strong?
06:33Yeah, I think so.
06:36I think definitely this year, just touching on what Sean was saying there, the really
06:42nice horse, in my opinion, got more attention this year than they did in other years.
06:48You know, I always find new marketing, particularly, can be very pedigree-orientated, and, you
06:55know, that will get you a long way, but I found this year, you know, we had some really
07:00good horses that were a bit lighter on pedigree, and they made full whack, you know, there
07:07was plenty of people for them, and I think people this year, for whatever reason, appreciated
07:12the really, really good-looking horse, and the real athlete, not more so than pedigree,
07:20but, you know, I think obviously the pedigree is very important, but I think definitely
07:24this year, the good horse made all the difference, you know, and I think, you know, from the
07:30point of view of it not being as polarized as some people would think, it still is very,
07:38you know, there is a handful of things that are going to make a lot of money, but, you
07:42know, you look in Book 2, I think this year, you know, like you said, you had a Cameco
07:46make a million, you had a Territory 750, St. Mark's 600, Camelot and Acclimations made
07:51over 500, so, like, they are, you know, not exactly household names yet, you know, you
07:57know, Frank will see the stars in those lists, so there are a lot of good stallions out there,
08:04and you know, if you are a mare, Warren is going to a better stallion than Stephanie,
08:09you will get well paid if you can produce a nice individual.
08:12And then, Sean, I know you kind of, when you are buying coals, you prefer to kind of buy
08:17mile plus horses, I know you bought a Bangkok, which wouldn't have been on many people's
08:21list for 27 grand, so, did you find, there was many horses a mile plus, many coals in
08:26particular on your list by, I know you got a Massat as well, and I think the GBB bonus
08:31is something that you target, so, how did you find shopping that sort of level?
08:36Yeah, it is hard to get those staying horses at the price tag that we are looking for,
08:42you know, around 40 grand or less, there is just, they are not there, breeders aren't
08:47breeding them because I suppose there is not as many of those stallions around at that
08:50lower end, they tend to go down the jumping route, case in point being Goldenhorn, like,
08:56very good stallion on the flat, loads of stakes horses, but he has gone more jumping now,
09:02but yeah, that is the reason we bought the Bangkok horse, didn't know much about the
09:05stallion, must admit beforehand, but he was a good race horse, and yeah, staying horse
09:12is plenty of options for them, obviously you have to give them an extra year maybe, but
09:17there is a lot more options than, for us in the resale market as farm horses than say
09:21your sprinters, but yeah, there is definitely room for more stallions at that level for
09:27the staying horse, you know, around the 15, 20 grand nominations, they are quite slim
09:32on the ground at the moment.
09:34Okay, just looking at the first season sires, something we were just talking about before
09:38we came on the show, Sean, myself and yourself, I think it is a positive that no first season
09:43sire is running away with it, maybe it might influence what people do with the foal sales
09:47this year, I mean, John also said it is becoming harder and harder to stand out from the crowd,
09:53so I will start with you John, have you taken much notice of the first season sire championship
09:58this year?
10:00Well, I have, obviously, like Saul, I am very keen and you have to keep an eye on fashion
10:07and what is going well and what is not going well, like my view on the first season sires
10:12this year is that none of them look exceptional, but none of them look that bad either, so
10:19you know, it is 7 or 8 of them that are more than acceptable, you know, Kamikaze had a
10:25group one winner, you know, Sergi Pekovka started off very, very well, looks to be a
10:31horse who will get precocious horses, you know, there are plenty of them that are doing
10:36fine without running away with it, but the difficulty, or not the difficulty, the thing
10:44with the first season sire is for a first season sire to really make a mark, like the
10:48Blue Point or Havana Grey when he did it, Maymass when he did it, is they have to be
10:54exceptional because there is only a certain amount of two year old races and they are
10:59competing with Maymass, Wooden Basset, None and Ever, Star Spangled Banner, all these
11:05stallions that get loads of two year old winners and get good two year old winners every year,
11:09so for a first season stallion to do like what Blue Point did last year, they have to
11:14be exceptional and they don't come around that often and when they are exceptional and they
11:18come around, they are very difficult for the likes of me or Sean or whoever to buy, you know,
11:22when you go to a foal sale or a yearling sale, when they do get to that level, that kind of elite
11:29level, they are very difficult for us to buy. So, you know, in terms of this year's bunch,
11:33they look fairly solid, they don't look exceptional, but that's not to say that
11:37they can't produce a good sales horse and more importantly a good race horse and that,
11:43you know, you mightn't get millions for them, but they should be very commercial still going
11:48forward. You only get the million for the Cameco. Yeah, of course, Redford wouldn't be happy hearing
11:56that, yeah, exactly, I suppose that's a full brother to a group woman, he was entitled to
12:03make it, but you know. John, what are your thoughts on the first season stallion? I think
12:08it's a positive anyway that maybe some of these stallions are going to get an extra year and like
12:11I think we probably the best is yet to be seen from Pinnatubo and a couple of others, but you
12:16any thoughts on it? Yeah, I think it's very healthy for the industry, as John says, you know,
12:21it is hard to get an exceptional sire like Bluepoint, Memas, we've had a couple of them
12:25the last few years and, you know, it is healthier for, it gives them, you know, they mightn't make
12:30mad money, but at least, you know, it gives them a chance, probably does buy them in another year,
12:35as you say, and it probably gives people a chance to get some value at the foal sales.
12:40I think there's only three winners between the first individual winners between the first six
12:45in the table at the moment. So it gives a greater spread and you could buy any of those stallions
12:52at the yearling sales and without being, you know, without thinking it was a bad idea and without
12:58spending crazy money on them either. So I think we kind of do need a greater spread of stallions
13:04at the moment anyway, instead of focusing in on a few, not as polarized. So, no, I think it's a
13:10very, it's a positive thing for the industry and those stallions will be given another chance,
13:14hopefully by breeders next season. Okay. And I think we touched on it at the start, John,
13:19just when I was talking about the year as a whole, but how do you reflect on the year as a whole?
13:24I mean, it was a very interesting year in that, you know, the market changed in the middle of the
13:30yearling sales season. And I think in particular, I think it caused a lot of breeze up handlers by
13:34surprise. Some of them are on the back foot, you know, they're down on numbers last year. I know
13:39that's nothing really to do with you, but I mean, how was it as a vendor just trying to gauge things
13:45just with the way the market changed so drastically at maybe Goffs?
13:50Yeah, like it was a funny year in general. Like I think the breeze up lads probably, you know,
13:58they got a bit of a raw deal. You know, there just seemed to be, when they're selling their product,
14:04there just didn't seem to be a huge demand for array source nearly. And which meant that
14:13at the breeze up sales, and it's not something I know a huge amount about, but just looking at it
14:19from the outside, you know, if you don't clock in the top 10 or 15, you're useless, which couldn't
14:26be further from the truth. You know, like plenty of good horses come from the breeze up sales that
14:31don't clock in the top 10 or 15 or whatever it is. But from a vendor's point of view, those sales,
14:37if you want to try and make money, your horse has to clock. And I think a good few of those horses
14:41that did clock very well and sold very well, haven't really gone on and done it on the track
14:46this year. Now, some of them have, but there definitely has been cases where some of the top
14:51lots have been disappointing, whereas the other ones have been very impressive winners. You know,
14:57there has been a huge amount of winners come from the breeze up sales, and they weren't top lots.
15:03So, you know, I think the breeze up men in general, maybe got a little bit of a raw deal,
15:07and that definitely affected things at the yearling sales, they weren't as strong.
15:11But like, I think the yearling sales as a whole this year, like I said, it was up and down.
15:17Definitely new markets. And the last sale, and France there had just come by,
15:27looked to be very strong. It seemed the thing got going later on. And the earlier sales, I'd say
15:34the top end was pretty okay, and the lower end wasn't great, you know. But like, I think,
15:41you know, if you look at the sales companies as a whole, like I think Fairy House did a really,
15:45really good job of getting in the, you know, the Eastern Europeans, the Italians, the foreign lads,
15:52who prop up the bottom. And in that kind of market, when your bottom is strong,
15:56it filters up nearly. Whereas then Tats in England did a great job of getting in the top lads.
16:05In those better markets, when your top is good, it filters down. So, you know, definitely the
16:11sales companies, the ones that worked really hard of getting in the particular buyer you needed for
16:16each different type of sale, they were well rewarded. And I think they definitely did
16:21make a huge difference. So, you know, I think, you know, the market as a whole,
16:26it's the same as it always is. The, you know, the top is strong, the middle, if you're a good
16:32individual, you'll be fine. And the lower end is always going to be difficult.
16:38Okay. And Sean, I know you were shopping at nearly every sale this year. I think you bought 16
16:43all told. A lot of, granted, a lot of your business was done later book three, but you did shop early
16:48and you bought some in Germany as well. But how did you find negotiating the orders throughout the year?
16:54Yeah, I thought the start of the market wasn't as bad as I thought it might be.
16:58I thought like Doncaster to Somerville, I thought there were, in Germany, there were fair prices.
17:03You found a nice horse, the prices were fair and people didn't get overpaid. And obviously,
17:10if you didn't take all the boxes, it was pretty tough going. But I thought it was a fair market
17:15up to about, say, when you got to the Orbi then, it started to warm up a bit. The Orbi was good
17:21and strong, Orbi won. And then once it got into Tats, sure, it went the opposite way to what
17:25everyone expected. It really took off and filtered down into the book tree. And I'm sure it'll filter
17:30down into France this week and then probably into Goff's, the open sale, it'll be a different
17:36type of horse, but I'm sure there'll be still plenty of people there having filled their
17:39orders. But I thought overall it was, the start was a fair market. And look, if you work the
17:47sales hard, there's still value to be had there. But no, I thought it wasn't as bad as we probably
17:52expected at the start of the year. Okay. We can all agree that I think
17:56Tattersall's was fairly phenomenal. But how much, as a breeder, John, would you read into
18:03that going forward? Would it be very unfair to use the words false dawn or would it give you
18:08confidence to go and get stuck in with regards to... I think the reason I'm asking this is
18:16because we saw a big drop in the foal crop there in the return of mares only a couple of days ago.
18:20I mean, how much weight do you put in the stability of what happened fortnight ago
18:26into your plans going forward? Well, I suppose, first and foremost,
18:33there's still obviously a huge demand for horses, which is brilliant. So there has to be,
18:40trainers need to buy horses to train, we need to produce them. It is a kind of a supply and
18:47demand thing. From a personal point of view, I won't change a whole pile. We try and improve
18:56our brood and our band every year. We either retire or we sell a few every year and we try and
19:02buy a few more. I think everyone is different and it's not for me to be telling people how to run
19:09their own business, but I'm always trying to improve my quality. I think the mares that we
19:19try and move on every year are the ones that aren't making the cut. They're obviously not
19:24producing nice horses or they haven't produced good enough horses on the track. And if they're
19:30not doing that and you want to run the thing as a business and be viable, then you have to move on
19:35those mares. And I think every individual breeder has to look at it the same way. I think this year
19:42in particular, Sean has touched on it, the nice horse will always get sold, provided it has some
19:48bit of pedigree. I mean, there's no future in breeding from mares that haven't produced a
19:53winner or that their pedigrees are spun out or are no good. If you want to produce good horses
20:03and run a business, you have to look at it from those kind of angles. And it's up for every
20:09breeder to make up their own mind what they're going to do. But the quality of the mare has to
20:13be the most important thing when you're assessing what stallions you use and stuff like that.
20:19Contentious topic, but stallion prices. Do you think there should be any form of a correction,
20:24maybe even the middle tier of the stallion market? Or do you think off the back of
20:28tattersaws and the golf saw we sell, that maybe stallion masters will think
20:34it's fair enough to keep them at the levels that they are?
20:39It's a bit like the last point, the popular stallions are going to be expensive. If you
20:44look at the return of mares this year, the ones that covered a huge amount of mares,
20:49they covered the mares because they're popular and people want to use them. And they're priced
20:53accordingly. Some people might say they're dear, but it is supply and demand. The lesser stallions
21:00are easy to get into and they're cheaper for a reason, because they're not as popular.
21:11I can see it from the stallion man's point of view, and it is very hard to criticize
21:17what they're charging for the popular horses, because they have to price them in a certain way
21:20to try and limit them. And the lesser stallions aren't as busy, aren't as dear. And on top of
21:29that, then the independent places who are buying these stallions, they're giving huge sums of money
21:34for them to try and get them. Most of them are going to lose money on the stallion if the stallion
21:39doesn't work. Now, if the stallion works, they'll make a huge amount of money on them. But it's very
21:42hard if they're going giving 3, 4, 5 million for a stallion. You can't sell them at 8 grand.
21:49You'll be broke. So they have to stand their stallion at a certain level, given the price
21:58they're giving for the stallion. And then the ones that make it, it is kind of supply and demand.
22:04You can criticize the stallion men as much as you like, but they're never twisting anyone's arm to
22:09send a mare. It is the individual breeder has to look at the quality of their mare and has to say,
22:14can I make money? If I spend 20 grand on my arm with this mare, am I going to get a return
22:20on my investment? And have I a chance of producing a good resource? And if they think they are,
22:25they should go for it. And if they think they aren't, they need to drop a level or they need
22:29to try and get a better mare. And in my opinion, anyway, that is the way it is. You can't expect to
22:42make money if you're using the wrong stallion and your mare isn't good enough.
22:47And most people who want to criticize stallion men and that stallions are too dear.
22:58Maybe they need to look at their own mares before they go having a go at everything else.
23:03It's a real contagious subject, Brian. And it's very hard to... The biggest issue of all of this
23:10is the level of prize money in English racing in particular. If the prize money was equivalent to
23:20what it is in Australia or America, I don't think too many people give out about stallion prices.
23:29That affects the whole... It's a greater subject, basically, than what we need to talk about,
23:34but it affects everything, basically. You wouldn't be so reliant on such a polarized market
23:45if you had more prize money. And that would filter down to the breeding side of it too.
23:48But look, you are where you are. And I think it's for each individual breeder to assess
23:55their own mares and to try and think, with the mare we have and the product we're producing,
24:02can we make it work? And it's for them to make up their own minds.
24:05I think it was Tony O'Callaghan, actually, at RB Part 2, who put it quite
24:09sincerely that nobody wants the fun horse anymore. And I think he's dead right, because just
24:14the costs and the reward, they don't tally. So I think I'd agree with you on that. And it all
24:19goes back to prize money. Sean, have you any thoughts on the stallion? Not that you're going
24:23to... Yeah, no. No, no. I absolutely agree with John on that one. I think, like, stallion men,
24:30they're running their own business. It's supply and demand. If they can get 150 mares at the fee
24:36they set, sure. And if they're getting more for a lesser price, they're going to put up the fees
24:40to protect the stallion. So they're not going to set a fee if they don't think they can fill
24:44the stallion's book at that fee. So they have to run it. That's how they have to run their business.
24:50And you can understand, as I agree 100% with John, the problem is breeders need to look at
24:56their mare, and is she worth going to that stallion at that price, or even is she worth
25:00breeding from? Like I've seen in some sales, there was a particular lower-grade sale I was at,
25:06and there was a mare, and there was no winner in the first two dams. There is a lot of mares that
25:12still need to be taken out of the system. And I think that's nearly something that we need to
25:17address more than the cost of stallions. Because a lot of mares have been over-covered, and
25:24so breeders have spent more on the nomination than what the mare justifies.
25:29And that's not the stallion man's fault either. So no, I think it's something, the drop in the
25:36return of mares this year is needed, and I think a further drop is needed again.
25:42So I think it's something that we've been needing for quite a while.
25:46It seems like a silly question to be asking how we look ahead towards the fall sales,
25:51given how the year-on-sale market changed so quick. But I mean,
25:54Sean, what are you expecting going forward? I think the top end, as we know, it'll be
26:00stronger than ever. Everyone's always trying to, as John says, up the quality.
26:06A nice foal will probably still sell well. Pinuchers at the lower end will probably be a
26:11bit more cautious, because some of them have lost money this year. But I think the top end will be
26:18very strong. Could be a bit of value at the bottom end, and I think there's probably value to
26:22be had in those first season sires that had two-year-old runners this year. John, some people
26:27will sit on the fence where other people will be able to see a bit of value there in those sires
26:31that had their runners this year that maybe haven't taken off like people expected, but
26:36John, next year as three-year-olds, they could start to motor and turn a nice profit in the
26:42autumn next year. Okay, John, where are we going to find the value? You have the ability to see
26:49into the future. I want to know, what are you going to be doing? You don't have to give all
26:54your secrets away, but you can tell me. To be honest, Brian, at every sale you go to,
27:03there's a chance of a touch. There's a chance of finding a foal that will turn into a nice
27:10yearling or a yearling that will turn into a nice breeze. Most people who are at it are
27:18good at it. We're all on the same horse. It's just trying to use your imagination and
27:23try and find one that not everyone else is on or try and see more value in one than another.
27:32I think from my point of view, I'm not going to change a thing. You look at as many as you can
27:37get through. You just have to put in the legwork, work the sales hard. I'm not going to particularly
27:49do anything different this year. The amount of good pinnacles that are out there, there's a
27:57huge amount of them. It's the ones that stand the test of time are the people who are best at it.
28:05I'm at 20 years now. It's all the same faces you're seeing. It's the same as you're competing
28:10against. We all know a good foal. We all know a yearling. It's just some years you get lucky and
28:15other years you don't. There's no mystery to it or great secret to success or anything like that.
28:23You just have to work hard and try and find a bit of value.
28:28The two of you come at it very differently. You're a vendor, Sean's a buyer, but I think
28:32there's very much a similar approach in that there's no substitute for legwork and getting
28:37out and seeing as many horses. Sean wouldn't be coming home with a Massat and a Bangkok if he
28:42didn't look through every single horse in a sale. You're probably similar with the foals, albeit
28:48maybe a certain level of fashion needs to be applied. You can't go in and buy the nicest
28:55foal you see by something completely obscure out of a mare who's one from 10. It's not going to
29:02work. You have to have certain, I'm not going to say rules, but parameters that you follow.
29:13You have to try and narrow your catalog down some little bit. You are not physically going to be
29:17able to look, if you're on your own, at every single foal in Goffs or in Newmarket. You could
29:23do 200, 250 a day, you'd win through them pretty quickly, but you have to set certain standards.
29:31Like you said, there's no substitute for legwork. When you're going around the sales there,
29:37it's the same people you're meeting the whole time. You just have to work hard at it.
29:43The harder the work, the luckier you get.
29:46Exactly. There's a lot of luck involved in it as well. You can't deny that.
29:52Well, look at that. Thanks very much for joining us. Best of luck for the sales for the rest of
29:56the year. Pleasure, Brian. Thanks very much, Brian. Thanks for having me.
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