- 7 months ago
Trainer Miguel Clement joins this week's TDN Writers' Room to recap his GI Fourstardave win with Deterministic. He also opens up about taking over the Clement stable from his father and talks about how American trainers are judged by their number of wins rather than their overall resume.
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00:00:00For the love of the worse, for generations to come.
00:00:23Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room Podcast.
00:00:31My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:32I'm a correspondent for the TDN, and I also co-host the Down the Stretch Radio Show on Sirius XM Radio with Dave Johnson.
00:00:39I am Randy Moss with NBC Sports and the Bayer Speed Figure team.
00:00:45Zoe Cablin with First TV and First Racing.
00:00:48Doodle has made an appearance there sitting by the front door, so where's Lucy?
00:00:55She's on the floor below me.
00:00:56Never mind.
00:00:58Well, guys, let's get right into it.
00:01:00There certainly was a lot to talk about last weekend with fabulous racing at Saratoga.
00:01:04Four grade ones on the card and a fifth stakes race.
00:01:07Also had the Clement L. Hirsch out at Del Mar.
00:01:11We're not going to have time to touch on all of them, so I picked out a couple races I thought we really should concentrate on.
00:01:17And our friends West Point Stable and also DJ Stable, which the general manager is John Green, they got a pretty good horse in Ewing in here.
00:01:26And, Randy, last week you gave a lot of stats about how these very fast horses don't necessarily pan out as three-year-olds, which could be the case with him.
00:01:36But for now, and just in the moment, he runs against Obliteration, who looked fantastic on paper, was two to five, broke a step slow, and had no problem beating this horse.
00:01:49Will he win the Hopeful?
00:01:50Yeah, probably.
00:01:51Will he win the Breeders' Cup Juvenile?
00:01:53We don't know.
00:01:54But right now, I get excited about these horses, even though I do understand what you're saying about how it's the horses that mature at different times are the ones that are usually going to win the Kentucky Derby.
00:02:06But, Randy, what did you think?
00:02:07Well, when I pointed out the horses that don't tend to do so well as their two-year-old and three-year-old campaigns continue last week,
00:02:17I was talking about horses that ran 100 buyer speed figures or higher, which definitely does not apply to the Saratoga Special.
00:02:24But I don't want to start out being Debbie Downer here, so let's let Zoe get off the Saratoga Special.
00:02:31Well, I'm afraid I have the same opinion.
00:02:34So, visually, it wasn't anything spectacular in my book.
00:02:40I don't have the final time in front of me.
00:02:42I know they went the last 16 in 7.03 seconds, which is crawling.
00:02:51Ewing's a pretty horse to look at.
00:02:53Listen, he's the greatest stakes winner.
00:02:54He's a good horse.
00:02:56Did he blow my socks off?
00:02:57No.
00:02:58Did obliteration blow my socks off?
00:03:00No.
00:03:02Jose aboard Ewing kind of drifted the turn a little bit, which somehow obliteration seemed to have got away from Pratt as well.
00:03:10And he went really wide.
00:03:12I was a little bit excited to see obliteration just trying to finish a little bit more because it looks like he's been going slower late at the end of his races.
00:03:23So, at least he was trying to gain some ground after losing so much on the turn.
00:03:27But for me, it wasn't a race to get totally excited about.
00:03:31Now, if I own Ewing and he's a graded stakes winner and you've got Griffin Johnson to get awesome.
00:03:37Well done, guys.
00:03:37I don't own a graded stakes winner.
00:03:39So, you win a graded stakes at Saratoga.
00:03:41I'm not going to knock you.
00:03:43So, carry on.
00:03:44But does this look like a superstar race moving forward?
00:03:48I'd have to say no.
00:03:50Boy, you guys aren't easy to satisfy.
00:03:52Well, look, I mean, I would love to own the horse.
00:03:55And I think they should be super excited at winning the Saratoga Special.
00:03:58But I think the fact is, if you were airlifted into Saratoga and you didn't know anything about the horses, didn't know anything about their pedigrees, connections, past records, or anything, and you just watched the Saratoga Special and analyzed it compared to the other races that day, you would come away from that race thinking that this horse is hardly a legitimate candidate for the Breeders' Cup Juvenile.
00:04:21Because of how slow he finished, buyer speed figure 71.
00:04:26Wow.
00:04:26I didn't realize it was that long.
00:04:27And that's a legitimate 71.
00:04:29A half hour earlier, a maiden race for two-year-olds went a half second faster, five buyer points faster.
00:04:36In the fifth race, a maiden race for fillies and mares, three-year-olds and up, Sprint, went 24 buyer points faster.
00:04:43The race after that, two-year-old filly maiden race, went one point faster than the Saratoga Special.
00:04:50I mean, the race fell apart.
00:04:51From the start, obliteration was trying to get out pretty badly, all the way down the backside.
00:04:57Something wasn't quite copacetic with him compared to the way he ran in his debut.
00:05:03Hopefully, that's not a sign that there's anything wrong and he'll bounce back from that.
00:05:07And look, they're two-year-olds.
00:05:09They're lightly raced.
00:05:10They're improving, not saying that they won't turn out to be Kentucky Derby horses.
00:05:15But just based on this race, you can't say that.
00:05:19All right.
00:05:20Well, you make some salient points there, my friends.
00:05:22Let's move on to the four-star Dave.
00:05:25We're going to talk a little bit later in the show to the trainer of the winner, deterministic Miguel Clement.
00:05:31He got a second-grade one win in there with the same horse.
00:05:35The horse also won the Manhattan before that.
00:05:44I tell you, this horse has really come around, but now it's my turn to be a Debbie Downer.
00:05:50What happened to Johannes?
00:05:51And is it just that West Coast turf horses just don't seem to run when they come east?
00:05:57I have no idea why that would be, but this is the most consistent, solid grass horse in the country.
00:06:03He was ninth at 9-5 as deterministic got the win.
00:06:07And I think right now he's probably in the driver's seat for an Eclipse Award, deterministic.
00:06:10If you want to know what happened to Johannes, follow from the start to about the midway point of the first turn.
00:06:16He didn't break.
00:06:17Steady.
00:06:18Check.
00:06:19Steady.
00:06:19And before you know it, he's last going around the first turn, which is hardly the typical recipe for Johannes.
00:06:27So, to me, that race is a throwout, especially since the Breeders' Cup mile is back at Del Mar.
00:06:32Let's see how he does when he gets back to California.
00:06:35Deterministic, I love the fact that he was nice and relaxed.
00:06:39He still didn't get as much credit as he deserves.
00:06:41He went off at 9-2.
00:06:42But, you know, he's now won five out of his last six races on turf.
00:06:47And, you know, he's probably right now, I guess, the top-ranked miler on turf in the U.S.
00:06:54You know, I mean, Europeans are still going to be the horse to beat when you get to the Breeders' Cup.
00:06:57They've won five out of the last seven miles.
00:07:00But at least it's not as bad as the turf, won a mile and a half, where the Euros have won nine out of the last ten.
00:07:05So, nice horse, Zoe.
00:07:08Deterministic is a dude.
00:07:10I've been watching him since he was a two-year-old, watching him work for Kristoff.
00:07:14And really cool to see Miguel now winning grade ones with him.
00:07:18He's tactical.
00:07:19He's going to absolutely suit Del Mar down to a T because he is so tactical.
00:07:25And he's got a tactical rider.
00:07:27Him and Kendrick Carmouche just mesh together.
00:07:31You know, Kendrick thinks he's a dude and Deterministic is a dude.
00:07:35So, I think they're a perfect match together.
00:07:38He's a really fun, exciting horse to watch.
00:07:41Johannes put a line through it.
00:07:43And, you know, it's a shame because that's the first horse Tim Yachtin to ever run at Saratoga.
00:07:48And Tim is a very conservative trainer.
00:07:50You don't see Tim putting horses on planes and running horses in the wrong spots.
00:07:55That horse was in the right spot.
00:07:56It just wasn't his day, didn't have a good trip.
00:08:00He will bounce back.
00:08:01He could not possibly have looked any better in the paddock.
00:08:05Fit, dappled, ready to go.
00:08:08Tim had him on point to run his A game.
00:08:10And it's not the shipping because when he ran at Churchill, he didn't get a great trip either.
00:08:15The big race of the day, of course, was the Whitney with an all-star cast.
00:08:20Fierceness, Sierra Leone, White of Barrio, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
00:08:25Sierra Leone was one for his last seven coming in.
00:08:28The one win, though, couldn't be any more important.
00:08:32The Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:08:33Most people, at least the bettors, preferred Fierceness, who sort of has a rivalry with Sierra Leone.
00:08:40So the end result is Sierra Leone wins.
00:08:44It was interesting the tactics they used.
00:08:47Chad Brown used a rabbit in this race to help set things up for Sierra Leone.
00:08:53Any horse by the name of something or other that I can't remember?
00:08:57Contrary thinking, yeah.
00:08:58Okay, contrary.
00:08:59And then this big long shot, Mama's Gold, was in the race as well.
00:09:03So you say, okay, well, they just set a blazing fast pace, set it up perfectly for Sierra Leone.
00:09:08Well, not necessarily.
00:09:10They went 23-4 in 47.
00:09:12It's not like they went, you know, 46 to the half.
00:09:16I just think he had his game face on today, and he was able to run down the competition in a day where Fierceness had an absolutely perfect trip in third early behind those two speed balls.
00:09:29And then really kind of just went backwards in the stretch to finish fifth.
00:09:34So Sierra Leone, back on the winning track, he's going next in the Jockey Club Gold Cup where he might meet or he's planning to meet Mindframe.
00:09:41That's a race I'd pay to go see.
00:09:43Yeah.
00:09:43I mean, look, I was very disappointed in Fierceness.
00:09:46I said last week I loved him in this spot.
00:09:49I loved him at the 7-8 pole.
00:09:52I loved him with six furlongs to go, five, four, three.
00:09:55I loved him at the quarter pole.
00:09:56He got the perfect trip sitting behind the two rabbits, basically, the two speed horses.
00:10:02He was sitting six, seven lengths behind him.
00:10:04Perfect spot.
00:10:05He was going to get the jump on Sierra Leone.
00:10:07He did get the jump on Sierra Leone.
00:10:09He took a clear lead at the quarter pole and then emptied out.
00:10:12He went his last half mile in right at 50 seconds.
00:10:16He just had nothing.
00:10:17He had nothing when those horses ran up to him.
00:10:19And I was very disappointed in that, but all credit to Sierra Leone.
00:10:24He's, the way Zoe would describe it, he was the dude.
00:10:28Yeah.
00:10:29He really was.
00:10:31He ran a huge, huge race.
00:10:33And what a cool horse he is.
00:10:35He's had 12 starts over two years, never worse than third in any one of his starts.
00:10:40Earnings now, I think, $6.8 million.
00:10:44He's already won the Breeders' Cup at Del Mar.
00:10:46So last year, I looked up the fractions for last year, the Breeders' Cup Classic that he won.
00:10:5322 and 4, 44 and 4, 109 and 2, 135 compared to what he just ran in, 23 and 4, 47, 111 and 2.
00:11:04Randy's shaking his head because that's obviously the wrong timing because it's not his timing that he likes to use.
00:11:10It was still fast.
00:11:11It's still fast.
00:11:13So I'm just going to use that because that's all I have in front of me, Mr. Rabbit.
00:11:16Yeah, the Del Mar fractions are, again, wrong and badly wrong, but it was fast.
00:11:26Yeah, it's still fast.
00:11:27But it just goes to show you that while they didn't go blazingly fast at Saratoga, it was fast for Saratoga, but he managed to close.
00:11:36I thought Highland Falls ran a blinder, an absolute blinder.
00:11:40And Bradcock's extremely, extremely happy with him.
00:11:44So maybe he's going to show up big towards the end of the year.
00:11:47But as far as fierceness, I don't know.
00:11:50Maybe he got a headache at the quarter pole.
00:11:53I don't know.
00:11:54Well, if Sierra Leone is a dude, is Seismic Beauty a dudette?
00:11:58Yeah.
00:11:59A very nice addition of the Clement Hirsch out at Del Mar over the weekend.
00:12:03And you don't think of Bob Baffert necessarily having a barn full of older fillies, but he's got the real, real.
00:12:12What's that?
00:12:13A damn honor.
00:12:15Oh, okay.
00:12:17Well, he doesn't have a lot of them anyways.
00:12:22Wise guy.
00:12:23Kevin Larry.
00:12:24All right, so Bob Baffert, whose specialty is older fillies and mayors, did it again on Saturday with a very nice horse by the name of Seismic Beauty.
00:12:36She got a 110 buyer in there.
00:12:39Very good ride from the inside by J.J. Juan Hernandez.
00:12:43And we'll be talking about this, I think, a little bit later in the show, a 110 buyer.
00:12:48One of the things that was curious to me, this was a race where Copian was going to, Dick Mandel was going to find out if this horse belonged in the Breeders' Cup distaffed or the Breeders' Cup filly and mayors sprint.
00:13:01She ran very well, as a matter of fact, but I don't know why she was so far back early.
00:13:07Randy, you're shaking your head.
00:13:08What was that?
00:13:08I don't know.
00:13:09She had the tactical speed to be right up there with anybody.
00:13:12That's what I thought.
00:13:13It didn't look like she broke that badly.
00:13:14I mean, she was three wide around the first turn, but, I mean, who would have expected she'd be six lengths off the pace basically last.
00:13:22She was still like four and a half, five lengths off the pace at the quarter pole.
00:13:25Yeah.
00:13:26Under a ride.
00:13:28And, I mean, what did you think about that, Zoe?
00:13:30I think there must be something not quite right.
00:13:35I know she didn't get the best of trips there at La Salle either, but she should have won that.
00:13:39Well, okay, maybe she shouldn't because that was a really good filly that beat her.
00:13:42But she's not quite the same as the, like, she should have been dragging Kazushi, regardless of what kind of trip she was going to get.
00:13:52She should have been making her own trip and bending him in half to be close to the pace.
00:13:56And she wasn't.
00:13:59But looking ahead, right, I can make a case that she is the second best contender in America for the Breeders' Cup, this staff, behind Seismic Beauty.
00:14:10And I could even make the case that maybe she could be rated ahead of Seismic Beauty.
00:14:15I mean, she was last, basically, she was four and a half, five lengths back, turning for home.
00:14:19She runs the last quarter in 24 and four.
00:14:22She was really reaching out toward the end.
00:14:25You would think from her pedigree, Omaha Beach out of a victory Gallup mare, distance would be no problem.
00:14:29And she certainly looked as if an extra 16th of a mile would be no problem.
00:14:33She got a buyer speed figure of 107, finishing second behind Seismic Beauty, who had everything her own way on the front end.
00:14:40Look, right now, you've got the, on the East Coast, you've got the Personal Linson coming up, okay?
00:14:45And you've got Torpedo Anna.
00:14:46And you've got Chad Brown's pair, randomized and raging sea.
00:14:50And you've got Darth Vader.
00:14:51And you've got Leslie's Rose.
00:14:53All of those horses on the East Coast, to me, right behind Seismic Beauty, Copian, Ricci, and Cavalieri, who I texted with Bob Baffert this morning.
00:15:05She hasn't worked since the Beholder Mile, but he says she's still a legitimate candidate for the Breeders' Cup Distaff.
00:15:11Look, it's all about the West Coast, fillies and mares, I think.
00:15:16And it just happens that the Breeders' Cup is at Del Mar.
00:15:19And knowing Mandela, I'm sure his instructions to Kazushi were get her to relax.
00:15:26Like, he's so patient, and they've worked very hard with her in the mornings as well, just to get her off of horses and have her relax.
00:15:34Because she's kind of a beastly filly in the mornings as well.
00:15:37Jessica Pfeiffer gets on her every day.
00:15:38And he was probably very happy with how far back she was, if I'm being completely honest.
00:15:46Just to get her into that mind frame more than anything.
00:15:50Bottom line, I think a good litmus test for East versus West.
00:15:53The fourth place finisher in the Clement Hirsch was Royal Spa.
00:15:55In her last start, she was second, three lengths behind Torpedo Anna in the Clement Hirsch.
00:16:00She was beaten eight and a quarter lengths and couldn't keep up with the top three when they really started running.
00:16:05Guys, let's talk about bad officiating, if you might.
00:16:11It's something that is plaguing the sport right now.
00:16:14And Randy, I know you were talking about this before we went on the air.
00:16:18There was the DQ in the Hall of Fame stakes where they took down Zulu Kingdom was as bad a call as you can ever see.
00:16:28And it's almost as bad as the one where they took down the wrong horse a couple of years ago and they refused, just refused to admit it.
00:16:36No, no, no, no, no.
00:16:37We took down the right horse.
00:16:41You said you saw some bad calls at Del Mar as well.
00:16:45But the stewards representing the Naira tracks, now these aren't all Naira employees, and the steward that represents the New York State Gaming Commission, Braulio Baeza Jr., is the most powerful of the bunch.
00:16:58But I'm okay using the word incompetent.
00:17:01And they proved it again.
00:17:02A hundred people could watch this replay of this race and nobody but those three people would say this horse should have come down.
00:17:09And you bump very lightly with another horse that really wasn't going anywhere at the time.
00:17:15Just shake your head.
00:17:17Are you watching the same race that I'm watching?
00:17:22It was bad.
00:17:24I have not spoken to one person.
00:17:26Not one person.
00:17:28Maybe Joel Rosario, but I've not spoken to Joel, who thinks that was the right call.
00:17:33Going into the first turn, it looked like Joel had kind of nowhere to go and was getting run off with.
00:17:41And he came in, bumped the horse right next to him.
00:17:46He was on the eventual winner, Luther, bumped whoever was right next to him.
00:17:50And Pratt was nowhere near him on the far outside.
00:17:53Now, looking at the drone shot, it looks a little bit worse.
00:17:57But it wasn't Pratt.
00:17:58It was the inside horse coming in.
00:18:02And the stewards didn't put an inquiry up.
00:18:05It was a claim of foul that got the ball started.
00:18:09And there were a couple of Del Mar.
00:18:11One two weeks ago, one last week.
00:18:12There were highly questionable disqualifications.
00:18:15And, you know, Larry Colmas had to go online and explain both of them to the fans.
00:18:25Poor Armando Ayuso.
00:18:27I don't know him, but he was victimized by both of those.
00:18:31They took him down.
00:18:31I think they got a vendetta against Ayuso.
00:18:33Wow.
00:18:35Yeah.
00:18:35So, look, we talked about Kentucky stewarding.
00:18:39I mean, in the Kentucky dirt, my gosh.
00:18:42You know, what really needs to be done?
00:18:44There are billions of dollars bet on this game.
00:18:47If this were trading on the New York Stock Exchange or whatever, they wouldn't stand for this.
00:18:54There's got to be transparency.
00:18:55And there's not anywhere.
00:18:58I mean, it's considered to be a huge step in the right direction when Larry Colmas can explain the disqualifications to the fans by saying that it's a majority decision.
00:19:10You don't get that anywhere else.
00:19:12Even that.
00:19:13A majority decision.
00:19:14We should know the names of the stewards that voted for disqualification, the name of the steward that didn't.
00:19:20And they should have written explanations after every disqualification why I voted for the DQ, why I opposed the DQ.
00:19:29It should be 100% transparent, and it's anything but in American racing.
00:19:34They've got cameras in the stewards' room in England.
00:19:37You can listen in.
00:19:38Oh, Hong Kong?
00:19:40Yeah.
00:19:40It's different elsewhere.
00:19:41It needs to be that way in the U.S.
00:19:43The TDM Writers' Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:19:47And what a Saturday it was for Keeneland's September graduates.
00:19:51They won four grade one stakes on Saturday.
00:19:54We'll lead off with Kilwin, who after stumbling at the start, won the grade one test.
00:19:59Deterministic won the grade one four-star Dave.
00:20:02We'll hear from Miguel Clement a little bit later on.
00:20:05World Beater won the grade one Saratoga Derby.
00:20:09And Seismic Beauty won the grade one Clement Hirsch.
00:20:13But there was more.
00:20:14Promising young TDN rising star Ewing also took down the grade two Saratoga special.
00:20:20Plus, I mean, could there really be any more?
00:20:23Three September sales graduates became TDN rising stars.
00:20:27There was the cleverly named Ted Noffey, Ornalaia, and Blackout Time.
00:20:33This year's September sale runs from September the 8th through the 20th.
00:20:38It all comes down to this.
00:20:40Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
00:20:41The moment that defines the year.
00:20:44When the world's most influential buyers gather.
00:20:47And every decision, every bid, every opportunity shapes the future.
00:20:53At a marketplace that brings the thoroughbred world together.
00:20:58And where futures are forged.
00:21:01Because every moment matters.
00:21:04At the world's yearling sale, Keeneland September.
00:21:07The Fastest Horse of the Week is brought to you this week by Life is Good.
00:21:12High up on that list of fast sires at Windstar Farm.
00:21:15And we have some good news on the Life is Good front.
00:21:18On Monday night, the first night of Fasig Tipton's 104th annual Saratoga sale.
00:21:24A Life is Good colt.
00:21:25A half-brother to two graded winners sold to Spindthrift Farm for $550,000.
00:21:31And the very next yearling into the ring was another Life is Good.
00:21:35This one a filly out of Gulfstream Park Oaks winner Coach Rocks.
00:21:39And she also sold for $550,000.
00:21:43Life is Good is to date into Mischief's fastest son.
00:21:47With nine triple-digit buyer speed figures as a racehorse.
00:21:49And he's out of the gate as quickly as a stallion as he used to be as a runner.
00:21:54And you can watch for more of Life is Good's yearlings coming up at Keeneland September.
00:21:58Now the Fastest Horse of the Week.
00:21:59The aforementioned Seismic Beauty and that 110 buyer speed figure in the Clement Hirsch at Del Mar.
00:22:06But only by a nose because, as we mentioned, it was a 109 buyer speed figure in the Whitney Stakes that almost got the job done.
00:22:17But Clement Hirsch winner Seismic Beauty, our Fastest Horse of the Week.
00:22:24And welcome in now the Gainsway Guest of the Week.
00:22:26I guess none other than Miguel Clement, one of the hottest trainers, not just in New York, but in the entire country.
00:22:31Miguel, welcome.
00:22:33Thank you very much for having me.
00:22:34All right.
00:22:35So I'm looking at your statistics this morning.
00:22:38And you're 26 for 115.
00:22:41You've won four graded stakes races, two grade ones, winning at a rate of 23%.
00:22:46Now, I can't say this is a big surprise because, obviously, when your father passed away, he left you behind a barn full of good horses.
00:22:54You learn from him, who is one of the best trainers we've seen in New York over the last many years.
00:23:00You were in the Darley Flying Start program.
00:23:01So you had a great education, and I'm sure you couldn't have been better prepared to take over the role after your father passed away.
00:23:10But has this even exceeded your expectations, how well things have been going?
00:23:16Perhaps, but the sale was in great form.
00:23:18And it's the same team.
00:23:19And I'm just trying my best, you know.
00:23:24So your most recent grade one, obviously, Saturday at Saratoga with Deterministic, who just keeps on keeping on.
00:23:31In the four-star, Dave, he rated just off the pace this time and was every bit as effective, given his versatility and the fact that he's clicking on all cylinders right now.
00:23:42I mean, what do you plot for him between now and the Breeders' Cup mile of Delmar, assuming that's the ultimate target?
00:23:50That is the ultimate target.
00:23:51Great. The first and foremost, we have to see the way he comes out of it.
00:23:55You know, his energy, his weight, the way he's moving, came out of his sound.
00:23:59Let's just see how long that performance took out of him, how much it took out of him, because he'll guide us the right way.
00:24:05Your most logical options are either the Woodbine Mile or the grade one at Keeneland.
00:24:09Those are the two most exciting races at a mile, between here and the Breeders' Cup mile.
00:24:14And if he's able to win a third grade one, maybe he's got the division on walk down before even the Breeders' Cup, which would be neat.
00:24:21Miguel, can you take me through the emotions of the Manhattan win with Deterministic, just like days after your father's passing?
00:24:33Because this was your first grade one win ever.
00:24:36You literally just taken over the reins.
00:24:38It had to be just, I can't even begin to imagine how you guys were feeling.
00:24:43And to have him win on that day must have been incredible.
00:24:47Like, Christoph was just looking down, still such a wonderful presence.
00:24:53Yeah, it was overwhelming, to say the least.
00:24:55I started the week as a winless trainer, and I ended the week as a grade one winning trainer, so there was a lot going on that week.
00:25:05That was great.
00:25:06It was very rewarding.
00:25:07The stable, we ran two of that, three in the race.
00:25:09It was far bridging deterministic in the stretch, two stable favorites, duking it out.
00:25:14And it was very meaningful for many, many, many reasons.
00:25:17And it was a big welcome distraction for both the stable and family.
00:25:21So, I'm very grateful for that.
00:25:24And Miguel, you have a chance this Saturday to add to your totals, Farbridge and the Sword Dancer.
00:25:29You've got to deal with Charlie Appleby, who's got a couple of horses in there.
00:25:32But right now, he looks to be probably as good as any American turf horse around.
00:25:37And he's won three of his last four, and the only time he got beat was by his stable mate, Deterministic.
00:25:42What are your thoughts about Farbridge and the Sword Dancer?
00:25:46He's top class.
00:25:47He's the best turster in the country.
00:25:49He's doing great.
00:25:50He loves it here at Saratoga.
00:25:51He's never missed an opportunity to run.
00:25:54He's never ducked anybody.
00:25:56He's one of the best turf skating races there in the country.
00:25:59And it's a shame that Manowar is no longer a grade one.
00:26:03I'm looking forward to it.
00:26:04It's a mile and a half.
00:26:05Joel Rosario knows it very well.
00:26:06The dynamic duo.
00:26:08And it seems a bit paceless on paper, but I'm sure someone will call it an audible.
00:26:14Maybe even Goodolphin, because they have two.
00:26:16The great thing about Farbridge is he's won grade ones on the lead.
00:26:19He, you know, from the Sword Dance last year on a very firm turf.
00:26:22He's won grade ones from last, showing a great turn of foot, i.e. the Joe Hirsch when he ran down a war like goddess.
00:26:27His versatility is top class.
00:26:30And we're all rather bullish to God.
00:26:32So very similar to you and your father in the U.K., John and Thady Gosden were co-trainers, essentially, for so long.
00:26:43Thady, of course, the son of John.
00:26:45And they're listed over there officially as co-trainers, John and Thady.
00:26:50And it's my understanding that your father tried to engineer the same sort of arrangement with you in Equibase and the Daily Racing Forum and all that.
00:26:59And it didn't quite come to fruition.
00:27:02What's the biggest difference that you see now that your father's gone and it's just you?
00:27:10Because there has to be something that you kind of think, oh, wow.
00:27:13I mean, personally, there's a lot, to be honest with you.
00:27:19But in terms of professionally speaking, you know, you have to step up.
00:27:26I know you have to step up.
00:27:27You have to pull accountability and try to keep everything as much the same.
00:27:33Encourage this team that nothing changes and keep moving forward and do everything you can to maintain the same standard and goals, to be honest with you.
00:27:40But, I mean, trust me, it was great to have him on my side for many reasons.
00:27:45And typically, when he would say something, no one would question it.
00:27:48Now, I think I needed a little bit of time to get to that status.
00:27:51But, I mean, as long as the results speak for themselves, I think everyone would say everything okay.
00:27:56Does the pressure feel greater?
00:27:59Unbearable sometimes, but it's okay.
00:28:00You just have to deliver it.
00:28:02And winning takes care of a lot, unfortunately, especially in our industry, which is not right.
00:28:07And you could be doing a great job, and your horse could be running well.
00:28:11You've been placing your horses well by doing a great job looking after them.
00:28:14But in this industry especially, we're very much judged by the final result.
00:28:19So, there is an added emphasis on winning.
00:28:22Did you guys downsize a little bit, you know, going, trying to move forward with the Clermont Stables?
00:28:30Has there been some downsizing in progress?
00:28:32Yeah, so the dad was diagnosed with cancer for over two years.
00:28:37And it was a well-kept secret at first.
00:28:40And then it quickly no longer became a kept secret.
00:28:43But, I mean, for a long time, we've had this vision.
00:28:47We were just obviously hoping he would be able to do this chapter with me.
00:28:51Even before cancer, he tried to get us as a joint stable name.
00:28:54And I wanted selfishly to keep it in his name for as long as possible.
00:29:01The Hall of Fame thing got to him a little bit, which I thought was a bit tough.
00:29:07And so, yeah, we used to have three divisions.
00:29:10And we downsized, knowing this unfortunate day might take place.
00:29:13So, we only have two operations.
00:29:15So, all the horses are about Saratoga or Belmont.
00:29:17Every Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday morning, I went to Belmont.
00:29:20The other days, I went to Saratoga, so I split my time between the two.
00:29:24And we have all the right key guys we've had.
00:29:26And it's no surprise.
00:29:27We've actually said no to some horses for a while now,
00:29:30trying to lower the numbers to make it more accessible for us, particularly me.
00:29:36Because I think at some point, there would be a number
00:29:38where your results won't be as good as they should be because it would be too much.
00:29:45The best way to phrase it is I was fortunate to be an assistant
00:29:47for a very good trainer in England called Hugo Palmer.
00:29:50And his first year, I think he had 58 horses when I first worked for him.
00:29:55And it was a phenomenal experience.
00:29:56I loved it.
00:29:58After the flying start, I was fortunate to be an assistant for England in Newmarket.
00:30:01I learned a lot.
00:30:02And the more you travel, the more you see things, you learn.
00:30:05And it's funny because he went from having a very successful year
00:30:10with, I think, 58 horses in my first season when I went there in November.
00:30:14He won two classics and he had a brilliant, spectacular season.
00:30:18And I think you have to save it more than tripled the following year.
00:30:22But the results are not necessarily tripled.
00:30:24Sometimes it just shows you that even though you might be capable of expanding,
00:30:28you need to give time for your team to expand as well.
00:30:30And I think it's a valuable life lesson is even if you have success,
00:30:35just be disciplined because it takes a long time to get the team you want it to be.
00:30:41You just mentioned that the pressure can be almost unbearable at times.
00:30:47I'm sure other trainers would say the same thing if they were as forthcoming as you are about their feelings.
00:30:54I'm curious, specifically, what is it that can make that pressure feel so unbearable to a trainer?
00:31:01So it's stupid and it's very, very selfish and stupid.
00:31:05And maybe we're all slightly, you know, egotistical and narcissistic in all sense.
00:31:09But I'll be honest with you.
00:31:11Had that Manhattan finish gone the other way,
00:31:14where integration nailed both Farbridge and the Terministic,
00:31:17I would have been in some foul mood more than likely that night.
00:31:20I would have been unbearable to both the team, my wife, the home.
00:31:23And as much as you try to keep results at home or at the races and, you know,
00:31:26at the stable and not bring it home,
00:31:28it's inevitable, especially in our line of work.
00:31:31Because we held on, I had a great day.
00:31:35Spectacular.
00:31:36And, you know, here we are.
00:31:37Would we still be doing this podcast now if the stable was not fortunate to cross the line first
00:31:43compared to finishing second in all these events?
00:31:45Unfortunately, I do think we're judged on wins.
00:31:47And running great is great.
00:31:50But no one can remember the worst if we finish second in any race.
00:31:55Your stable has been, with your father, very turf-oriented.
00:31:58He did win with tonalists in the Belmont a few years back.
00:32:03Are you okay with that mix of maybe 75% turf horses, 25% dirt?
00:32:09Or would you like to get more dirt horses into the barn?
00:32:12Yeah.
00:32:12I would love to have more dirt horses in the barn.
00:32:15So if anyone's watching and have any dirt horses, we will always have a stall for them.
00:32:20No, truthfully, it's a bit tough to say that.
00:32:23The truth is, when my dad first came over from Europe, he had several,
00:32:27the overwhelming majority of his stable was, you know, from European ownership and clientele.
00:32:32So in that sense, in that way, they're going to be turf.
00:32:35And dad was labeled first as, you know, a Phillies man, where he only had a lot of good Phillies.
00:32:42Over one majority of his first big races were won by Phillies on the grass, long on the grass.
00:32:46So it was turf-long Phillies.
00:32:48Then he started winning with some of the Colts, you know, the Winchesters, the Geo-Ponte area.
00:32:53So just turf-long, boys or girls.
00:32:56Then at one period of time, he had very good turf sprinters, you know, the disco partner, the pure sensations, the insummations.
00:33:02So he was a turf sprinter trainer.
00:33:04And it's funny, we're from mile-and-a-half girls to five-and-a-half, six-and-a-half boys on the grass.
00:33:09And then he was hoping that Tonus would break the stereotype a bit and we would be labeled as, you know,
00:33:13classic dirt training outfits.
00:33:15It's, I quite didn't catch on, but I mean, you always said as long as you're labeled as something means you're doing something well.
00:33:21So just take it because you'd much rather be labeled as something, you know, than not having a label, I suppose.
00:33:27What's it like training for your mother?
00:33:30She is by far my most difficult owner.
00:33:37She's very opinionated.
00:33:39And then the orders she gave, I feel very poor for Mr. Rosario because she gave him like a four-and-a-half-minute lecture
00:33:44about what she would like to see done in the race.
00:33:46Truth is, he gave it a remarkable ride.
00:33:49But, I mean, it's fun having her as the owner now.
00:33:52So she's enjoying that aspect.
00:33:54That's so awesome.
00:33:56So a half hour after Deterministic wins the four-star Dave, your old friend Riley Mott, the son of trainer Bill Mott,
00:34:06wins the Saratoga Derby with World Appeal, his first grade one win.
00:34:11And you posted quite a funny picture of you and Riley.
00:34:17It looked like you were probably seven or eight years old, bellied up to a kitchen counter.
00:34:21And Riley posted this, or at least he had this quote about you and he.
00:34:29He said, it's what he and I have dreamt about since we were literally in diapers together.
00:34:34We used to run around in our backyard pretending I was cigar and he was flagged down.
00:34:40It was something we always really dreamt about.
00:34:42So it was pretty cool.
00:34:44That had to be a pretty satisfying feeling.
00:34:49That was great.
00:34:49It's terrific for him.
00:34:51He's also been through a lot lately, so it's great.
00:34:53He's a very good trainer.
00:34:55And it's nice to see the younger guys doing well on the big stage.
00:34:58But it's terrific.
00:35:00It's terrific.
00:35:01And I think the following 30 minutes later, his father just missed a grade one by a nose.
00:35:05That would have been some story.
00:35:08But it's great.
00:35:09It's great.
00:35:10I mean, we did get our first grade one and our second grade one before him, but that's okay.
00:35:13I've got one more question because I tapped Acacia this morning because I'm like, oh, give me something on Miguel.
00:35:24She said there's a fabulous story of you when you were little Miguel answering the phone and there may have been some royalty on the other end of the phone.
00:35:32She's not supposed to share stories like that.
00:35:38That does happen.
00:35:41I think that one of Dad's, he's had many great owners over the years.
00:35:46And one that always seems to strike everyone's interest the most is when he trains.
00:35:50And, you know, in the States, I believe she's the only trainer ever for her majesty, the queen.
00:35:55And that was a great experience.
00:35:57That was a phenomenal experience.
00:35:59And he went to Ascot as well and spent time there and everything.
00:36:03And that's neat.
00:36:05That's neat.
00:36:05It's very tough to one-up that.
00:36:08We'll try our best one day, hopefully.
00:36:10Did you hang up on the queen?
00:36:13No comment.
00:36:13Did you go, hello?
00:36:16I was not supposed to share that story.
00:36:18There's some stories you can portray, like my husband's great, he works very hard, he's very intense.
00:36:23Many of those stories, I'm okay with.
00:36:25But some stories that are not my best moments, they're not necessary.
00:36:31I've got one more.
00:36:32And it's really, it's much of a comment, I guess, as it is a question.
00:36:36You pointed out the pressure and the difference between, in the Manhattan in particular, between winning or losing by a nose, right?
00:36:44But I've done a lot of Olympics coverage for NBC.
00:36:50And when you see Olympic athletes on the podium, they're celebrating, winning silver, winning bronze, like it's the greatest achievement, finishing second or third.
00:37:01I mean, maybe, I guess, if you're like a 1 to 20 favorite at one of those Olympic events and everybody thinks you're going to win and you don't, you sort of, you know, force a smile while you're on the podium to collect your silver medal.
00:37:12But there's so much happiness in finishing second and third in the Olympics.
00:37:17And it always has struck me that it's not that way in horse racing.
00:37:23Well, I actually would disagree.
00:37:25It's not that way in the States.
00:37:27But when you go to War, Alaska, and you finish second or third, they're brought back.
00:37:32Everyone celebrates and everyone's happy and you're given a podium and, you know, there's an area.
00:37:36The winner's a closure is the first, second, and third.
00:37:39Dubai is similar in that regard as well.
00:37:40But, you know, at the end of the day, here in the States, I mean, maybe it's the way we're raised or our culture.
00:37:47No one remembers second or third.
00:37:48If I can name you how many seconds and thirds we had at Breeders' Cups, that's what I remember for Pizza Bianca.
00:37:53Not Gio Ponti, we're in second to both Goldie Cova and Zenyatta.
00:37:56I mean, it's the way that your legacy is created by winning.
00:38:00Your father experienced that at the Breeders' Cup.
00:38:02Correct.
00:38:03Firsthand, when the whole crowd of us cheering for Zenyatta and we got ran down late with Gio Ponti.
00:38:08Correct.
00:38:08But, you know, the Saratoga training list title, I'm sure I think the stable is fortunate enough to be fourth right now.
00:38:16It's by wins.
00:38:17It's not by top three finishes and it's not by money.
00:38:19It's by number of wins.
00:38:21And it doesn't say if you exceed expectations or not.
00:38:24And you're not judged by did your horses outrun their odds or not.
00:38:28It's just by wins.
00:38:29So, in this game, if you want to get to the top level, you have to find a way to deliver and to win.
00:38:35And that's either by placing horses better or getting it right more about your analysis of them or whatever.
00:38:42You have to find a way to win, unfortunately.
00:38:44Because otherwise, we're judged by success.
00:38:47And it's a catch-22, but it's true.
00:38:50If you win, opportunities take place.
00:38:52And if you don't, you go a little bit lower on the totem pole.
00:38:56Not just with your horses or your ownership or your clientele or your bloodstock, but with the jocks agents as well.
00:39:01I mean, you have to deliver.
00:39:03And I'm sure it's like that in any other profession as well.
00:39:07It's Ricky Bobby.
00:39:08If you're not first, you're last.
00:39:11That's exactly what it is.
00:39:13And they do take pictures at Royal Ascot for second and third.
00:39:17And everyone, like you said, is so happy just to be there and be second or third.
00:39:24True, true.
00:39:24But I think most of the leading trainers, I'm sure if you asked them, there's a big difference between winning and second.
00:39:32Oh, yeah.
00:39:32I bet Miguel never expected when he did this podcast that Ricky Bobby would be in the road.
00:39:38No, and same as the story about Her Majesty the Queen.
00:39:41So someone's going to get in trouble.
00:39:45All right.
00:39:46Well, Miguel, thank you.
00:39:48It's good to get to know you a little bit.
00:39:49You've got a great sense of humor.
00:39:51You've got a lot of good laughs out of you.
00:39:53But congratulations on all your success.
00:39:56Keep it up.
00:39:57You're easy to root for.
00:39:58And thank you for being our Gainsway Guest of the Week.
00:40:01Thank you very much, Matt.
00:40:03Our guest of the week, Miguel Clement, was brought to you by Gainsway.
00:40:07The first yearlings by Gainsway's lightning-fast grade one sprinter, Drain the Clock, went through the ring Monday night at Saratoga.
00:40:14Right off the bat, the third yearling sold was Drain the Clock Colt, who brought $175,000 from new owner Top Line Sales.
00:40:22His first yearling sold at Phasing Tipped in July for up to $125,000.
00:40:29Back when he was a racehorse, Drain the Clock, a son of McLean's music, was the first horse to defeat champion sprinter Jackie's Warrior around one turn.
00:40:37That was in the Woody Stevens.
00:40:38And now, as a stallion, well, the Saratoga Colt sold for 17 and a half times Drain the Clock's stud fee.
00:40:46His July top seller, 12 and a half times the stud fee.
00:40:50You can do the math yourself.
00:40:51Drain the Clock stands at Gainsway for only $10,000.
00:40:55Be on the lookout for more of his progeny at this weekend's Basic Tipped in New York Bread Sale and, of course, at Keeneland's September.
00:41:03Gainsway, power, passion, performance.
00:41:13Drain the Clock will win and win by as much as he wants.
00:41:16Drain the Clock will bound home the winner.
00:41:19Drain the Clock, Jackie's Warrior, drain the clock by a head.
00:41:30$120,000, $100,000 in the back.
00:41:37All right, so let's take a look at what's happening this weekend with the Sword Dancers, the feature race at Saratoga.
00:41:44And Colonial Downs will be hosting the old Arlington Million card with the Beverly D, the Arlington Million, and the Secretariat.
00:41:51And the story in the Sword Dancer is Charlie Apple will be bringing in two horses.
00:42:00And I don't quite understand.
00:42:01He has El Cordobas and Nation's Pride.
00:42:04I'm picking El Cordobas because this horse right now seems to be in pretty good form.
00:42:08Nation's Pride, since winning the Arlington Million last year, does have one win in the UAE.
00:42:13But for the most part, the former's really weak on that horse.
00:42:17Yet Buick takes Nation's Pride over El Cordobas, which makes me worry a little bit.
00:42:21And also, why wouldn't he have run, Randy, you think, one of these horses in the Arlington Million?
00:42:26Why run him against one another when he has that other option?
00:42:30The other story would be, can Christophe Clement won this race three of the last four times?
00:42:36Can his son, Miguel, who you just heard from recently,
00:42:38can he win it again for the Clement family with Farbridge, who was definitely the best American horse in there?
00:42:45Yeah, no idea why they're not running anything in the Arlington Million.
00:42:49Obviously, I haven't spoken to Charlie Appleby about it or anyone, Michael Bannehan or anyone like that.
00:42:55Nation's Pride, sort of a Jekyll and Hyde kind of horse, which I think fierceness is reverting back to that as well.
00:43:00But yeah, Nation's Pride's best races, the Manhattan last year, the Arlington Million last year, which he won.
00:43:06He's the defending champ. I mean, any of those races would be good enough, but probably his last three of his last four?
00:43:14No. So he's a little bit of a puzzle right now.
00:43:19Yeah, I don't understand why they're not running anything in the Million.
00:43:22Chad Brown's not running anything in the Million either.
00:43:24We'll get over there in just a moment.
00:43:27I honestly don't have any opinion whatsoever in this race.
00:43:31I would love Nation's Pride to win it.
00:43:32Otherwise, I'm going to root for Miguel and Farbridge.
00:43:36All right.
00:43:37In the old Arlington Park races, the Beverly D is among the card at Colonial Downs on the 10th.
00:43:43We are recording this on a Tuesday, and the 9 to 5 morning line favorite in the race,
00:43:49Be Your Best, is cross-entered in the Boston Spa Stakes at Saratoga.
00:43:54Trainer Safi Joseph said, unless weather is a factor in one place or another, he is going to run her in the Beverly D.
00:44:01So keep that in mind.
00:44:02And I looked up the weather reports of both Saratoga and Chicago for the weekend.
00:44:06It doesn't look like there's going to be any rain as a factor whatsoever.
00:44:10I think Safi Joseph's got the best horse in Be Your Best.
00:44:13She won the game last time out.
00:44:15Nice score.
00:44:16She went 46 and 109 and 3 and just widened on the lead.
00:44:20As the comment says, drew away, kept to task.
00:44:23I think Beach Bomb for Grand Motion's probably got a pretty good shot.
00:44:27And then you've got Spanish Eyes, who I'm really interested in.
00:44:30I have so much respect for Brendan Walsh.
00:44:32This horse is making her third start off a layoff, ran second last time out in the Robert G. Dick Memorial at Delaware.
00:44:39I think she's on the improve.
00:44:41But I'll go with, I assume the favorite, Be Your Best.
00:44:44Yes, she needs no rain whatsoever.
00:44:48She likes to hear her feet rattle.
00:44:50So she is definitely the horse to beat.
00:44:52She's got pace.
00:44:53While she doesn't need the lead, she's drawn down on the inside.
00:44:57And there is pace aplenty in here.
00:44:59But on paper, she's the horse to beat.
00:45:01Don't sleep on Beach Bomb.
00:45:03She's got pace as well.
00:45:05And she's kind of more of a need-the-lead type for Trainer Grand Motion.
00:45:09She's three in here.
00:45:10And then who else was in there?
00:45:12Duvet Day.
00:45:13She might wake up down there.
00:45:15When she shows up, she can actually pop in a really good race.
00:45:20But she's six years old now.
00:45:22She might be a bit long in the tooth.
00:45:24Yeah.
00:45:25Be your best as the horse to beat.
00:45:26But I'm a Beach Bomb fan.
00:45:28I thought last time, even though she got a yielding course and a very slow pace at Saratoga in the New York States,
00:45:35I think she was just beginning to really round into her best form.
00:45:38So I'll take her at a little bit better price.
00:45:42All right.
00:45:42Then the feature race is the Arlington Million Race, 11 at Colonial Downs.
00:45:47And Mystic Dan, to me, is the interesting horse.
00:45:51Do you believe that he can handle the turf or not?
00:45:54The fact that Kenny McPeak is trying this horse on the turf, that speaks volumes.
00:45:57He doesn't make many mistakes.
00:45:59But, Zoe, I know talking to you again off camera, you said you really like Mystic Dan's one turf workout at Saratoga.
00:46:06Obviously, Kenny McPeak did, too, because I don't think he would have been running there if he didn't like the work.
00:46:11It is available on XP TV.
00:46:13And what about the work?
00:46:16And tell us what you saw.
00:46:18It's on Fast TV because we rebranded.
00:46:21It was terrific.
00:46:21Now, I didn't break any clocks.
00:46:24He went 102.
00:46:25But, man, he just stretched his legs.
00:46:27He had a beautiful way of going.
00:46:30And I looked at Kenny.
00:46:31I'm like, Kenny, he looked really, really good.
00:46:33And he's like, yeah, I'm going to run him in the million.
00:46:36I'm like, well, go on with your bad self.
00:46:37I thought he looked terrific on the turf.
00:46:42Numbers-wise, he obviously fits here.
00:46:44But I was very pleasantly surprised.
00:46:47If you'd have asked me going in and I'd not seen him working on the grass, I'd have been like, oh, you're crazy.
00:46:53What are you talking about?
00:46:54But he's going to get some money from me because I loved how he skipped over.
00:47:00It's a perfect spot for him.
00:47:02You know, you don't have Nation's Pride in there, obviously.
00:47:04We talked about him running in the Sword Dancer.
00:47:06Uh, integration is going to be a legitimate favorite in there, I think.
00:47:10He just barely lost to Deterministic in his last race.
00:47:14But just to kind of point out that this race is there for the taking, the second choice in the morning line is a European import named Cairo.
00:47:21Yep.
00:47:21Uh, three races back, Cairo was beaten five and a half lengths in the Singspiel stakes at Maidan by Nation's Pride.
00:47:29Um, so, yeah, this race is wide open.
00:47:31Um, Mystic Dan, if he can just duplicate his dirt form.
00:47:36He doesn't have to get better on the grass.
00:47:38If he can just duplicate the way he's been running on dirt and carry it over to the turf with an inside post position to save ground, which is what he likes.
00:47:45Um, I think he could be the horse to beat in there.
00:47:48And he's going to get the jump on Cairo.
00:47:50Now, Cairo got beat by the Foxes at Chester.
00:47:53The Foxes is a pretty darn good horse.
00:47:54So, that horse is going to come running late.
00:47:58He does tend to run a little bit warm, uh, in his races.
00:48:01And it can be very, very warm there at Colonial as well, which may be something to, you know, just take in, see how he handles that because he won't have had any heat like that.
00:48:13He ran pretty good in Dubai, but when it's hot at Colonial, guys, it is hot.
00:48:21I'm not sure what the weather's going to be, but I'm pretty sure it's going to be quite toasty.
00:48:25But he's a good horse.
00:48:26And it's surprising to see only one European shipper in here, and that is Cairo, who was third last time out in the Group 1, Queen Anne.
00:48:33That's the good news is, bad news is the horse was 100 to 1 in that spot.
00:48:39So, obviously, the punters over at Ascot didn't think much of him in that race.
00:48:45So, the, once again, the Arlington Million card at Colonial Downs will be one of the highlights of the weekend.
00:48:50As you know, one of this podcast's key sponsors is the PHBA, the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association, and you probably know where this is going.
00:48:59Guess who was inducted Friday into the National Museum of Racing and Hall of Fame?
00:49:04That's right.
00:49:04It was another Smarty Party.
00:49:07Congratulations to Pennsylvania bred Smarty Jones, who, of course, was 2004's champion three-year-old by virtue of his wins in the Kentucky Derby and the Preakness.
00:49:16He was also the lone selection by Hall of Fame voters this year in the Contemporary category.
00:49:22And how about a Saratoga Daily Double?
00:49:25Monday night at the Saratoga Sale, a son of Justify, a half-brother to Breeders' Cup winner Caravelle and multiple stakes winner Witte brought $1.4 million from Sheikh Fahad Al-Thani of Qatar, who also owned Caravelle and Witte.
00:49:41And that cult is a registered Pennsylvania bred.
00:49:44To learn more about breeding your own Pennsylvania champion and maybe a million-dollar year length, go to pabread.com or call 610-444-1050.
00:49:57P.A. Bread, I think we've built a brand at this point.
00:50:01It's excitement at every step.
00:50:04Roses for Deborah just set a new track record.
00:50:08On average, for the past decade, Pennsylvania paid over $28 million a year in breeders' awards, restricted races, and owner bonuses.
00:50:16Plus, P.A. Bread's shine on the world's biggest stage.
00:50:19Just three states have bred more Breeders' Cup winners.
00:50:22Learn more at pabread.com.
00:50:25With some of the fullest fields in the country, and quality racing year-round,
00:50:31there's never been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:50:37Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high, as is average purse per race, outpacing California, Florida, and New York.
00:50:45Kentucky Brands.
00:50:47Breed them.
00:50:48Raise them.
00:50:50Race them.
00:50:51We all win.
00:50:55TD and Writer's Room is also brought to you by Kentucky.
00:50:59We're not talking tourism or bourbon or baseball bats or college basketball.
00:51:03We're talking racing.
00:51:05And, of course, as usual, we've got plenty to talk about on that front.
00:51:08So we've already ticked off some of these.
00:51:09Sierra Leone wins the Whitney.
00:51:11Kill win from last to first.
00:51:12Six to one upset in the test.
00:51:14World beater beat an international cast in the Saratoga Derby at 11 to one.
00:51:18Earned a berth at the Cox Plate in October, should they choose to use it.
00:51:21Deterministic.
00:51:22Made it back-to-back with that win in the four-star, Dave.
00:51:25Those were Saratoga's four grade one stakes on Saturday.
00:51:28All four winners were Kentucky Breads.
00:51:30And internationally, Coolmore Scandinavia won last Tuesday's Group One Goodwood Cup.
00:51:37Talk about a stare.
00:51:38That was a two-mile race.
00:51:40And Scandinavia not only was the only three-year-old in that field,
00:51:44he was the only Kentucky Bread.
00:51:46And looking ahead, the upcoming Kentucky Downs meet will feature purses of more than $40 million,
00:51:52made in special weight purses, up to $170,000, the highest in the country.
00:51:57Kentucky Downs dates August 28th to September 10th.
00:52:01Horsemen already know that.
00:52:03Kentucky Breads.
00:52:04Breed them.
00:52:04Raise them.
00:52:05Race them.
00:52:06We all win.
00:52:07Well, Zoe, Del Mar did something that I think deserved a big round of applause.
00:52:13They, like Naira, have essentially cut the CAW players out of the win pool by insisting that they will not take their bets after two minutes to post.
00:52:23Therefore, they can't really bet because the way their system works is that they have to have the very last look at the pool.
00:52:31And to have anything but the last look with two minutes out, they won't go into that.
00:52:36That still means they'll bet their brains out in the pick fours and the pick threes and the tries and the exactness.
00:52:42But it's a cosmetic change.
00:52:46It's a Band-Aid, putting a Band-Aid on a problem.
00:52:48But when we had Labrado Labrosio on last week, we talked about his horse, Stormy Blues.
00:52:52The horse went into the gate in the Bing Crosby at 45 to 1, crossed the wire at 18 to 1 in that spot.
00:53:01So they had to do something.
00:53:02The reason I'm – Zoe, I'm leaving it up to you.
00:53:05Tell your bosses at Santa Anita to do the same thing.
00:53:08I'll be right on it.
00:53:09I'll be right on it.
00:53:10Yeah, it's great.
00:53:13I mean, like everybody else, I like to see 5 to 1.
00:53:17And if I'm betting on a horse at 5 to 1, I would like to get paid 5 to 1.
00:53:21Personally, I'd like us all to have fixed odds.
00:53:24You know, you can take the price or not take the price.
00:53:27It can drift out or drift in, or you say you'll take the 5 to 1.
00:53:32So, I mean, I'd love to see that if I'm being totally honest.
00:53:37I like the way you described it, Bill.
00:53:39It's a cosmetic change, really, is what it is.
00:53:42It's putting a Band-Aid on the problem.
00:53:44It's like going to the doctor, you know, with a horribly sore knee,
00:53:47and the doctor gives you a painkiller and doesn't do anything about, you know,
00:53:51what's causing the knee to be sore to begin with, right?
00:53:54I got no problem with the CAW guys getting rebates.
00:53:58That's what, you know, airlines, hotels, that's what they do with their best customers.
00:54:03That's okay.
00:54:04I got no problem with these computer programs.
00:54:07If you can build a better mousetrap that can handicap exceptionally well, great.
00:54:11Go for it.
00:54:12You deserve to be able to win.
00:54:15But the problem is, and I don't know how you can put the milk,
00:54:18spilled milk back in the jug at this point,
00:54:21is the access that they've gotten computer input directly into the pools
00:54:27that other horse players don't get.
00:54:29It's a built-in advantage, and that is the primary problem.
00:54:34Now, is it aggravating to somebody who bets a horse at 7 to 2
00:54:40because they think that's the value, and then the race is over,
00:54:44and they look up on the board, and the horse is 8 to 5, 7 to 5?
00:54:47Yeah, it can be frustrating.
00:54:49But I don't think about that quite the same way as a lot of other people do,
00:54:55and here's why.
00:54:56It's a pair of mutuals.
00:54:58If the odds on one horse go down, the odds on the other horses go up.
00:55:02So it works the other way, too.
00:55:04You can bet on a horse that you love at 6 to 1, and the race is over,
00:55:08and he wins, and you're celebrating, and you look on the board,
00:55:10and he's 9 to 1.
00:55:11Hey, look at that.
00:55:12I got a bonus.
00:55:14Right?
00:55:14It doesn't always, all the horses' odds don't drop.
00:55:18The ones that drop, drop.
00:55:19The other ones go up.
00:55:21So I think people put a little too much emphasis on this.
00:55:25I think it's really cosmetic as much as anything else.
00:55:28It's not a bad thing.
00:55:29I agree with you.
00:55:30Other tracks should do it as well.
00:55:33And I have one other point.
00:55:34This has gotten to be, from all the things I've read,
00:55:39people that know a whole lot more about this than I do,
00:55:43they have a huge, the CAWs, a huge oversized influence
00:55:48on the mutual pools across America.
00:55:51Percentage of money bet.
00:55:52It's just staggering.
00:55:54Right?
00:55:54I think you're kidding yourself if the racetracks that have been catering to
00:56:01these CAWs don't reach out to the CAW guys that are their gigantic best
00:56:07customers and say, look, you know, we hate to do this, but we got to do it.
00:56:13We got to shut you out of the wind pool or two minutes to post.
00:56:16But I tell you what, to make it up to you,
00:56:18we're going to bump up your rebate a little bit to make up for the lost money
00:56:24in the wind pool or something like that.
00:56:27You know, you don't just slap your best customers in the face and say, you know,
00:56:31hey, you know, deal with it.
00:56:35So I got a lot of opinions on that, but I do think it's good
00:56:39to lessen the frustration on some of the horse players.
00:56:44And if this is one good way to do it, then maybe every track should do it.
00:56:50And the Saratoga phasic tipton sale kicked off on Monday night.
00:56:55We are recording this on Tuesday afternoon.
00:56:57So we don't have the results in right now.
00:57:00We can't talk about how the sale went on the second night or the final figures,
00:57:03but it was just very, very strong sale to start off.
00:57:07First of all, Bobby Flay bred a horse bred by Bobby Flay by Gunrunner,
00:57:12was a leading money getter at $2.7 million.
00:57:16And this is how close the sale was to last year.
00:57:20This year, the gross was $39.9 million.
00:57:23Last year was $38.9.
00:57:24This year, the average was $519,000.
00:57:28Last year, the average was $505,000.
00:57:30I also thought it was interesting that three flight lines sold last night.
00:57:33They were all fillies, and they got $1.1 million to West Point,
00:57:38who, of course, was in on the flight line ownership.
00:57:40Another one went for $600,000 to Live Oak Plantation.
00:57:44Another one for $625,000 to Chad Schumer.
00:57:47Zoe, you keep a close eye on these things.
00:57:50What were some of your takeaways from the sale?
00:57:52It was complete madness there last night.
00:57:55I've never seen so many people trying to get into that Fazek Tipton Pavilion.
00:57:59Now, on the first night, obviously, we're recording this today on Tuesday.
00:58:04We'll have the second night tonight.
00:58:05But the first night is always a little bit, I don't want to say tourist night,
00:58:11but people come and watch, and we want people to come and watch.
00:58:14We want people to see what happens and fall in love with the game.
00:58:17Obviously, Joe Blow walking in off the street all dressed up isn't going to put his hand up
00:58:22and suddenly buy one.
00:58:23But it was fabulous to see the energy in the pavilion.
00:58:27And the one thing that I did take away from it, and it's going to be fireworks tonight.
00:58:33You know, by the time most people listen to this, the Tuesday night sale will be over,
00:58:37and there's going to be millions and millions of dollars spent there.
00:58:42But the big groups walking around, it seems like the groups teaming up are getting bigger
00:58:48and bigger and bigger.
00:58:50So you'll have someone looking at a horse, and they'll have 15 people around them.
00:58:56You won't even see the horse because you've got all these people looking at one horse,
00:59:00and they're all teaming up to buy these horses, which is great for the industry.
00:59:04The stock market is up.
00:59:05There's a great energy.
00:59:07The sale last night was terrific.
00:59:09Now, the big guns are coming tonight.
00:59:11You've got the half to journalism, abermopitism.
00:59:14She's going to turn a lot of heads.
00:59:16There's some intermischief cults, flight line.
00:59:18And there's going to be big bucks tonight.
00:59:21I mean, the first million-dollar horse through the ring was hit 13.
00:59:25The last horse through the ring last night also made a million dollars.
00:59:30So it was terrific last night, but tonight, Tuesday night, is going to be doolally tap.
00:59:37There's going to be an awful lot of money spent.
00:59:40I think I'm just going to go to the bar and buy a drink.
00:59:42It'll be the only thing I can afford.
00:59:46The bar.
00:59:47There's a key word there.
00:59:48I'm not a sales guy.
00:59:50I'm a racing guy.
00:59:51Zoe can wear both hats.
00:59:52I can only fit one hat.
00:59:54I don't know very little about sales.
00:59:57But I was there at the 2004 Saratoga sale.
01:00:03And you talk about a party.
01:00:05Yep.
01:00:06Not just inside the pavilion.
01:00:07I mean, that's where the business is being done.
01:00:10It's outside at all the tables and the bars.
01:00:12Oh, my God.
01:00:13It was a blast.
01:00:14I had such a fun time going there.
01:00:16I was with my wife.
01:00:17And our daughter, Hallie, had just turned two.
01:00:20And so we decided at one point, she needs to go in and see some horses.
01:00:25So I carry her into the pavilion.
01:00:27She's in my arms.
01:00:28I'm sitting at the very back.
01:00:28And, you know, there's a horse in the ring.
01:00:31And they're bidding and bidding and bidding.
01:00:33It was, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars.
01:00:35And my daughter's like, oh, look, a horsey.
01:00:38And the bid spotter's, like, pointing at me.
01:00:42Like, I'm like, no, no, no.
01:00:44That's her.
01:00:45It's not me.
01:00:47I almost walked away bankrupt.
01:00:49But it was a blast.
01:00:50It was an absolute blast.
01:00:52Yeah.
01:00:52It was a very good sale last night.
01:00:54Just 11 horses not sold, which is huge.
01:00:57The R&A rate, I think, was 12.5%.
01:01:00It is a select sale.
01:01:02And we're probably going to be talking about some fireworks next week, honestly.
01:01:06We want to remind you as well that the TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by First TV.
01:01:12This week's First TV of the week is Mindframe.
01:01:15Mike Rapoli tweeted yesterday that he is willing to concede that Fierceness may not be the best horse in the country because Mindframe is.
01:01:24How about that?
01:01:25Here he is on the outside of Classicist working five furlongs at Saratoga on Saturday in 101 and 4.
01:01:32Trainer Todd Pletcher said he will make his next start in the August 31 Chockey Club Gold Cup.
01:01:38Be a smarter bettor with First TV.
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01:02:36Visit westpointtv.com.
01:02:40And the TDN Riders Room brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:02:44Needless to say, it was a big week for West Point and partners at Saratoga.
01:02:47Thanks to Ewing's victory Saturday in the Saratoga Special.
01:02:51Son of Nick's Go is now two for two for trainer Mark Cassie and Jockey Jose Ortiz.
01:02:55Owned by West Point DJ Stable and Kenneth Freyrich.
01:02:59Ewing's talent scout back in April OBS was bloodstock agent David N'Gordo, who was back on the hunt for West Point and partners this week.
01:03:08The Fasig-Titton Saratoga Select Yearling Sale.
01:03:11You can keep tabs on West Point's latest recruits yourself.
01:03:14Just go to www.westpointtv.com.
01:03:19Well, that's a wrap on this week's edition of the Thoroughbred Daily News Writer's Room Podcast presented by Keeneland.
01:03:25I want to thank my co-hosts, Randy Moss and Zoe Cadman.
01:03:28I want to thank Miguel Clement, our Gainesway Guest of the Week.
01:03:31Also, our editors and producers who worked so hard behind the scenes to make this podcast look good each week.
01:03:37It's Sue Finley, Katie Petruniak, Anthony LaRocca, and Alia LaRocca.
01:03:41It'll be another great weekend of racing.
01:03:42Enjoy, everybody, and we'll see you next week.
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