The Breakdown: Joe Jonas on 'Work It Out'

Rolling Stone

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00:00If I could describe Work It Out in three words, everything is okay.

00:04Hello, I'm Joe Jonas, and this is The Breakdown in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

00:19What's up, Joe?

00:19What's up, dude? Looking good.

00:21Did you grow that mustache just for me?

00:23Well, actually, I shaved it just for you.

00:25It was very thick before I mixed it.

00:26I shaved that thing down, so then I'm like, okay.

00:28Yeah.

00:29Now it looks a little, like, pubescent, but it's all right now.

00:32I like it.

00:33Are you in Los Angeles? Yes, it's your home studio.

00:35Yeah.

00:36Jason Evigan, incredible singer-songwriter-producer,

00:40who I was lucky enough to work with on Work It Out.

00:43I would say, like, it's probably around an hour we got this song done.

00:47Yeah, it was very fast.

00:48Jason Evigan, who's been a longtime friend of mine.

00:51I was playing him music.

00:52I bumped into him at a coffee shop, and we've been trying to find time to work together.

00:56And I was like, I want to play you some stuff.

00:57I think, like, this is really exciting.

00:59I would love to work with you.

01:00And he's worked with everyone from Charli XCX to Troye Sivan, Dua Lipa as well.

01:05Just a lot of songs you hear on the radio that you would be familiar with.

01:09He's just brilliant.

01:10And he heard it, and he heard most of the songs, and he was like,

01:13fuck, yeah, I've got ideas.

01:15I've got ideas.

01:16And he texted me just the intro.

01:20I thought it was going to be, like, a ballad,

01:22and then it goes to this kind of, like, Strokes-y drum beat.

01:24And I was like, oh, cool.

01:26And we were wrapping the album up, and I was like, you know what?

01:28I really need to work on this song.

01:29I need to get in the studio with him.

01:31I have something I need to, like, say that I haven't been able to say in the other nine songs,

01:35ten songs, and I want to try to get it together.

01:39So long story short was just getting Jason on his one day off and getting in the studio.

01:46And we wrote it, I think, in maybe an hour.

01:48The song has a lot of really interesting, weird things.

01:51Like, for instance, one time, okay, so, like, these headphones, right?

01:55They started malfunctioning one time, and it made these craziest sounds.

02:00I was like, dude, let's sample it.

02:01So I sampled it, and I made a whole drum kit out of it.

02:03So most of the drums are made out of a broken pair of headphone sounds.

02:08And then the drum fill, like, all the live drums were all recorded on an iPhone.

02:12Yeah, and then there's, like, I have this tape machine player that was sitting in my

02:16studio for, like, a couple years.

02:17My wife bought it as, like, an antique just for looks.

02:20And my friend was like, what did you plug into that?

02:21I remember it was so loud in the first, like, first version we had.

02:27It was so loud that we were like, it's awesome.

02:29But I don't know if everyone's going to like this as much as we do.

02:32Yeah, can you mellow it out a little bit?

02:33Yeah.

02:47Well, it sounds great.

02:48So we recorded this, like, in a room like this, not like an isolated booth, which we

02:53did a lot.

02:53There's a bunch of songs on this album that we just kind of sang a little handheld in

02:58a room, like a busy room with the music playing, which we kind of like.

03:01It bleeds some of the music in the background, but it adds something to it.

03:04So I think it's a good introductory track because it nods to some of the emotion that

03:08you'll listen to in the album sonically.

03:10I mean, there's a lot of inspiration from artists like The Strokes to even Daft Punk,

03:16like, stuff that's all over the place.

03:18And then a lot of, like, Western music.

03:19So, like, there's country Western, but there's, you can't really hear that here.

03:23But I feel like some of the guitars in the beginning, it nods to what else is to come.

03:28And Jason, just being how talented he is, was able to listen to two other producers

03:33and kind of marry the two and find a way that kind of brings it all together.

03:42But also the thing that I think is really funny is that the first verse background vocals

03:48that are kind of tough, pretty, you won't be able to hear it, I guess.

03:50But I'm going to turn it up.

03:54It's just like we just threw a bunch of stuff out and I can't believe we kept all of it.

04:04I'm just going to isolate it now.

04:08Yeah.

04:09So Blush, who's an amazing writer, producer, singer, amazing songwriter, she and I worked

04:16together for the first time.

04:17Justin Trannor brought her in for one session.

04:19Justin Trannor, I wrote a lot of DNC songs with, Cake by the Ocean with.

04:24And we got in the studio and he's like, I want you to meet Blush.

04:27And I just fell in love.

04:28I was like, she's so talented.

04:30Her choices, her melodies were really unique.

04:33And I called her.

04:34I was like, I would love for you to work on this song with me because I kept hearing the

04:38same melody.

04:40And it was always following the guitar.

04:45That was the verse.

04:45And I was like, I wish we could go somewhere else with it.

04:48And she heard it for the first time.

04:49I didn't sing her the melody and she came up with something brand new.

04:52And I was like, yep, there it is.

05:06That's all Blush.

05:15That was so fun.

05:23And there was like, I think, I think we did about like seven, eight takes, but that was

05:29at the very end of the night.

05:30Maybe there's some tequila involved.

05:32So I wanted to make sure it sounded quite crazy.

05:35I was in the studio every day and I'm working on this religiously and wanting to make sure

05:40every lyric spoke true to me and spoke true to what I've been through and what I'm going

05:45through and hopefully what I think my audience is also going through.

05:50I remember we were all like, we don't want it to come off sounding like a preachy song.

05:55Right.

05:56So then we're like, so then we're like, what?

05:57Let's flip it.

05:58Let's be talking to ourselves in the song.

06:00And I think that's how the verses kind of took shape.

06:03Doesn't matter the volume is on.

06:09So, yeah, originally, that's all I heard.

06:10And I was like, oh, this is like a Beatles song.

06:15It was such an easy, it really flowed easier than most songs, actually, even to mixing

06:35and producing it.

06:36It was all like, I don't know, there's something very easy about it.

06:40We both were kind of stuck on the same melody, and that's why it was so nice to have Blush

06:43kind of show up and come up with something really unique.

06:47And also my favorite melody that she came up with is actually the pre-chorus.

06:50Sometimes I need reminding.

06:53Yeah.

06:54Just so left of what our brains did.

06:56And it was a refreshing experience.

07:01That's where in the song, you kind of come back, you break the fourth wall and you're

07:04like, you're talking to yourself, which is cool.

07:07From the first verse to the second verse is a big change.

07:10Where the first verse, I think it's talking in third person.

07:12And then it was like the second verse is more so like opening it up, like talking to everybody.

07:18Yeah.

07:18Okay.

07:19Maybe I'm a little dramatic.

07:21Accepting that you're just a little crazy sometimes.

07:26I have this little yellow notebook I bring everywhere with me.

07:29And the first line of it says, even if.

07:31So it's even if like things can be really overwhelming or stressful.

07:34It's like, I'll be okay.

07:35It'll be okay.

07:36Or I'll figure it out.

07:37Whatever that version of figuring it out looks like for myself.

07:41So I wanted to write something that was honestly just speaking in third person of like, you're

07:45going to be, Hey, look in the mirror.

07:47You got this.

07:48It might be overwhelming right now, but this will find its way to the right place to go

07:54there in the beginning and say, all right, this is, this is essentially my journal.

07:58Take it and have a place where I feel really safe.

08:03Sometimes as a songwriter, you walk into a room and you meet somebody for the first time

08:07and then it's like, all right, so like, what have you been going through?

08:09Do you want to write something?

08:10And luckily all these people I've either worked with before, I were hung out with them

08:13before and really respected.

08:15So blush and Jason, two friends of mine and being able to just walk in a room and not

08:21feel like it's a bit like pulling teeth and trying to find tap into the emote where we

08:25are all relating.

08:26And that was, that's where I raised my hand and said, I think I'm missing a song that

08:29says, you know, you go through a lot of crazy shit in your life and sometimes daily and

08:34ultimately like it's going to be fine.

08:37Jason, I remember when we spoke, we were all relating on like being parents and things

08:41that were stressing us out and things that I think we walked in there pretty caffeinated.

08:46So we were all a little, we were all a little anxious and talking about, well, like, this

08:49is funny.

08:49And then just the humor and some of the lyrics to be able to look at yourself third person

08:56and say like, wow, you're being really ridiculous.

08:59And also sometimes even like an hour or two later, you realize whatever you were really

09:03stressed about was not a big deal.

09:05And it's probably in your head.

09:07The first verse has a lyric, sometimes I wish I had powers to be invisible.

09:11The other day, somebody was like, oh, if you had powers, what would you, what would you

09:15do?

09:15And I was like, yeah, the answer is I'd probably mess with my friends a lot.

09:18But the truth about that lyric is it's probably the heaviest lyric of the song because it's

09:23talking about feeling like you don't know where you belong and you're, you feel like

09:29maybe I'm supposed to be on a different continent.

09:32Maybe I'm supposed to be in a different era, but I'm not sure who I am.

09:36I'm not sure where I'm supposed to like land my feet.

09:39And you're almost questioning your sanity.

09:41But I think all of us can feel overwhelmed and stressed.

09:44And even an hour or two later, you're like, I've got to handle this myself and deal with

09:49it and grow.

09:51View of mental health has changed a lot over time and especially music industry.

09:54And it's also so nice to talk about our feelings and not feel like you have to sugarcoat them

10:00or it's embarrassing.

10:01Obviously, artists have always used their music as a tool to express what they're going

10:06through.

10:06But we can also talk about it.

10:08And I think a lot of the songs, even on my album, are emotional and sometimes heavy.

10:14But then there are tunes on there that are also like this, where sonically, I think it's

10:19upbeat and fun.

10:20And until you're dissecting the lyrics, hopefully you'll realize like, oh, OK, we're talking

10:24about some real stuff and it's OK to do it in a lighthearted way.

10:28If I was speaking to my 17-year-old self, I would say all the people that you think

10:33have it figured out don't.

10:34All the adults that you look up to that you're like, wow, they really have their shit together,

10:39they probably don't.

10:40And they're just a big kid in a suit trying to figure it out, too.

10:43So look back when I was 17 and I was like, so eager to become an adult, so eager to be

10:49accepted.

10:49And then it's OK to be your weird self because some point in your life, people will be thrilled

10:56that you are that version of yourself in front of a lot of other people.

10:59There would also be a few hairstyle choices.

11:03Maybe I would convince him to suede it out a bit before you do it.

11:09I think we could all look back at our yearbooks and laugh.

11:13Jason heard a few songs that were going to be on the album.

11:17And in classic genius Jason fashion, you sent me two songs.

11:23Both of them made the album.

11:24And this song obviously being the first intro.

11:28I don't know.

11:29We don't.

11:29What do you say anymore?

11:30I think single intro track.

11:31I'm not sure.

11:32But it's the first song you'll hear from this body of work.

11:34Yeah, the track already told such a cool story.

11:38So I was like, I feel like he'll get this.

11:39You know, I don't usually just send tracks to people, but that was cool.

11:44You made me think about this because Zayn Carney played on it as well.

11:49Zayn Carney is an amazing guitar player.

11:51His sister wrote on a lot of these songs in the body of work as well.

11:54But he was on a date at Universal and I texted.

11:58I was like, I have a song I really want you to play on.

12:00And I didn't know this.

12:01And he left the date to come play on this song.

12:04Yeah.

12:05And by the way, I also produced it with Zayn's, one of Zayn's best friend.

12:11His name is Kane.

12:11Kane Rashad.

12:13And Kane and Zayn showed up in my party.

12:14I was like, oh, you guys are friends.

12:15Kane and Zayn.

12:17So that was cool too.

12:17It's a very biblical name.

12:18Very.

12:20Yeah.

12:20Thanks, man.

12:21Have a good day.

12:22You too, guys.

12:22Yeah.

12:24I'm not sure what I would do if I didn't have music, to be honest.

12:27Like every morning I try to put pen to paper and write certain things I'm grateful for

12:32and quotes that I've come to love or things that I'm feeling really drawn to.

12:37But when it comes to music, I'm able to like walk away.

12:39I feel like sometimes emotion can be so tricky because you don't know where

12:47you need to have that output.

12:48It could be a friend for some people.

12:50I have a conversation or partner.

12:51It could be just writing it down.

12:54The fact that I'm able to use music as a tool when I know I need to.

12:59It's so refreshing to be able to create something and step away.

13:03And I think in the past, I would always write in a way where I'm like, all right,

13:07what are people going to think when they read or listen to this song?

13:11Instead, I was like, let me just be as honest as possible.

13:13Then I'll go back and tweak it if I feel like maybe it's a bit too poignant or

13:18if it's a bit too honest.

13:19But as artists and as creators, we have the opportunity to speak true to what we

13:26want to say.

13:27And I think your audience grows with you.

13:30You don't go in the studio and say, OK, what are the fans going to love?

13:35I love my fans.

13:36And I'm so grateful that I have had such a long, almost 20 years doing this now.

13:42And they're so supportive.

13:43But I also know that as they grow up, they want to hear something new.

13:47And they're discovering new music every week.

13:48And I'm not trying to chase a trend either.

13:50I think that's also important.

13:51I feel like it's so easy to go, oh, this is like you try to create a song that's kind

13:55of similar to one that's hot right now.

13:58And then by the time you release it, it's so you just got to stay true to who you are

14:02as an artist and a person and live life.

14:04I feel like sometimes you can, for me at least, you can go in the studio and you'll be in

14:09the studio every single night for a year.

14:11And you're not out there actually living your life to find inspiration.

14:15Same. Truth.

14:16Bars.

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