- 2 days ago
For Rolling Stone's new cover story, Tate McRae hangs out with Rolling Stone's Angie Martoccio at a studio in Los Angeles to talk about songwriting process, dealing with outside noise, lip syncing allegations, praise from Taylor Swift on "Tit For Tate," and a lot more.
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00:00Tate McRae, thank you so much for doing this. You've had such a wild, amazing year. You just
00:14capped off a huge, successful arena tour. Your album, So Close to What, debuted at number one.
00:21You played SNL, VMAs. Just the other day, you got nominated for a Grammy. Congratulations.
00:26Thank you. Tell me about that, because I loved F1, and I love Just Keep Watching. How did you
00:33receive the news? I was in bed, and I woke up, and first text was from my mom, and she was just like,
00:41good morning, my Grammy-nominated artist, and it was really cute. I think, A, getting to do a song
00:46for a soundtrack was always on my bucket list, and for it to be a huge blockbuster with the coolest
00:55actors, and to be a part of that whole process was so cool, so this was just like the cherry
01:00on top of a really crazy year. You know, you have a hit sports car, and F1 is a race car
01:04movie, so I'm sensing like a car theme here. That was all coincidence, actually. Like, I
01:09was like, wow, I really don't have this much of an infatuation with cars, but it looks like
01:13I really do. But you do love to drive, you were telling me. I do like to drive. Yeah.
01:17We are actually not too far from where you recorded, so close to what? Yeah. And I have
01:27to ask, now that we are in L.A. right now, and you just got an apartment in New York,
01:31which city are you feeling more? Are you more of a New York girl now? I definitely think
01:36for 22, New York is my vibe. I think I just feel more alive there. I feel creatively inspired.
01:45I feel like I actually leave my house. Like, in L.A., I feel like I'm just a hermit and
01:51don't move, so it's really refreshing and a good new era. But there's still great
01:56parts. Like, what would you say your favorite part of L.A. is? I think driving at dusk
02:01is really important for me when I listen to music, windows down. I'm such a sucker for
02:07nighttimes on the beach. Just like the moon and the water, it's so water sign of me. But
02:15I really feel connected and, like, I feel like I can, you know, dream there and think
02:22of things there and manifest. And so that's usually, like, where I like to go if I'm not
02:27in New York.
02:28It's funny that you say that because that's the exact vibe of the cover of the Deluxe
02:32album.
02:33Yes, I know. And that's so special to me. I think I had, like, just a vision. My whole
02:39screensaver on my phone for the whole first half of the year was, like, this, like, glowing
02:43angel. And I was just like, I must do something connected to the moon and connected to the
02:49stars and the universe because I think that that whole vibe was inspiring me through my
02:55whole tour. There's this one quote from Anais Nin and it's just like, how does it start?
03:02It says, my hair is getting pulled by the stars again. And I felt like that was, like, the vibe
03:07of my whole year was just, like, feeling like I was getting pulled by this external force
03:12and I needed that Deluxe to feel like that, I think.
03:16Speaking of your year, the Miss Possessive tour was 88 shows.
03:19Yeah, crazy.
03:20And this is not a regular tour.
03:22No.
03:22You're doing this incredible dancing. There's literal fire behind you.
03:26Yeah.
03:27You have a pack of dancers. You did the VIP soundcheck every single show with an acoustic
03:32song.
03:37I have to ask, like, how are you feeling right now? Because I'm tired even saying that.
03:45I'm so tired. It was definitely a lot. Yeah, we went to South America, we went to Europe,
03:53we went all throughout the U.S. It was my first arena tour, which I don't think I realized
03:58how much energy you exert for that many people. Like, other shows felt way more calm and zen
04:06and, like, I could, like, peacefully make it through and every show, me and my dancers
04:10would just be so wiped at the end of it. We're also doing, like, the absolute most on stage,
04:15but it definitely took it out of us. But it was, like, the best year of my life.
04:21How much do you sleep after a show? Because I would be out.
04:23Well, I don't fall asleep until, like, 4 a.m. Because there's just so much adrenaline
04:28and energy. You're so wired. But then I'd sleep until, like, noon on the tour press every
04:35day.
04:35So the Deluxe album has so many, like, great moments and you have some new songs there
04:40that I really want to dive into. Let's just get started with Nobody's Girl. It's incredible
04:45and you sing 22 is a little sad, but it's fun.
04:49Yeah.
04:50Walk me through, like, the headspace you were in when you wrote these songs.
04:53I think I was more in a space of feeling like I was everywhere and nowhere at the same
05:02time. Like, I'd been traveling so much and I felt like I was spreading myself so thin
05:06and I had no idea what my core, what was going on in my core. And I think that those sessions
05:14were really healing for me to, like, figure out where I was, what I needed. And I think
05:19what I needed most was just to, like, be by myself and just write and take time to figure
05:25out what I like and who I want to be and where I want to go. And that was really important
05:30for me. And we were in New York. It was, like, my first week moving to New York. I was with
05:34Amy and Emil and Grant in the studio at Electric Lady. And we were just having so much fun.
05:40And we were just, like, talking through all the poetry I'd written in my European tour
05:46and then just, like, implementing that into all these songs. And it felt really special.
05:50Talk to me about the video for Nobody's Girl. I know it's partially inspired by Giselle,
05:55one of the best ballets of all time.
05:56Yes. Well, honestly, the initial idea was just inspiration from the ballet and watching
06:05videos of it. And it's, like, in this forest, there's angels, and it's magical.
06:18We got to work with these incredible choreographers from Paris named La Horde, and it was just a
06:23cool day. It was really special.
06:24Yeah, I think it's easy to see these songs as just breakup songs, but there's so much
06:29more to it. What I love about your writing is that it has so many layers. A song like
06:34Trying On Shoes. Like, talk to you about that song. There's just so much more to it, and
06:38there's a big metaphor.
06:39I think Trying On Shoes is just trying on other—anything other than yourself. Other
06:45personalities, other bodies, other pieces of clothes, other masks to just feel like anything
06:54but yourself. And I think through a breakup or even through relationships or being on tour,
07:01you can get a little confused as to what your identity is, and you have to refine that again.
07:10And I felt like I was in a place where I was like, I'll—I just want to do anything to
07:15not feel like myself for one day.
07:16Yeah.
07:17And wonder if that will grab your attention.
07:20Yeah. I really love Horseshoe.
07:23And the line got 20,000 people just smiling, and it only takes one to get me spiraling.
07:29Yeah.
07:30I'm proud that I, like, basically know the entire song now.
07:31Yeah, this is impressive.
07:32Yes, thank you.
07:33You just got these songs.
07:34But it's such a great line. What was going on when you wrote that? What is it about?
07:38I think I was feeling so strange because I was experiencing things that I wished for my whole
07:48life, like playing shows and getting to exist in this career makes me feel like the luckiest
07:55girl on the planet. And I think I was, like, not letting myself be sad for so many months
08:02because I'm like, I can't live a life like this and be sad at all. And I think that song
08:07is just talking about how I feel so lucky and I feel so grateful, but I feel like I've
08:12never felt more alone and more alienated from everything and confused as to why I'm so sad.
08:20And, yeah, I think then there's the line, like, I'm not a pop star when I'm all alone.
08:25And I think it's just funny, like, when all the makeup comes off and the clothes, and this
08:30is for any person ever, it's just like you in your bedroom and you're like, okay, who
08:35am I and who's in my life? And that's a really daunting thought sometimes.
08:40You know, Tit for Tad is the opposite of that, right? It's not sad. It's an amazing song.
08:46I know Taylor Swift shouted it out.
08:48Yeah.
08:49What was that like for you?
08:50It was so surreal. And it's so funny. My mom is so witchy. She said the week before,
08:57she's like, I feel like Taylor Swift is in your ether right now. And I was like, what?
09:02Like, that's so random. Like, I'm such a massive fan and I adore her. And so when I
09:08pulled up my phone and saw that she had, like, talked about it on Fallon, it was one of the
09:12coolest moments ever. And also just because I know that she's such an inspiration for me
09:17as a writer and obviously as just a woman in the industry and being able to express herself
09:22and be, um, and be fearless in that sense. And so for her to like acknowledge that was
09:29really special.
09:31Did you get to see the Arrows tour?
09:33I didn't get to go. I was literally on tour.
09:36Because you were doing your own tour?
09:36I was, yeah.
09:37There's a few people who know like how much work that goes into and you're definitely one
09:41of them.
09:42Yeah.
09:42There's so much that goes into that. And I think you are really just coming off this
09:47incredible year. Like I said, it's almost a hundred shows, which is just like absolutely
09:51crazy.
09:52Yeah. It's wild.
09:52I think this is a good time to talk about your alter ego, Tatiana.
10:02Can you tell me how she was born? Where did she come from?
10:05I, all of it stemmed from just like a joke by my parents making fun of the fact that when
10:13I got on stage, I just, coming from a shy and pretty tame person, I get on stage and I
10:20just like this beast unlocks and I'm just completely different. I just have no fears and I feel
10:26the safest on stage, which is so interesting and ironic. Um, and then I just started to use
10:35this alter ego, this energy as the person that if I ever felt horrible or had a bad day or
10:41didn't know how to turn it on, on set, I would just be like, okay, well, I don't need to be
10:44myself. I can just be her. Um, and now it's kind of resulted into this whole other thing that I feel
10:49like I tap into on the, on the daily, on my, in my tours and when I'm writing.
10:54That's what I was just going to ask is does, does Tatiana ever come out off stage ever,
10:58like in other areas of your life?
11:00Yeah. Like I think writing anything but love, I think she came out. I think she also came out
11:04during like tit for tat. Like, um, when I'm like, have to lock in or go out for an event,
11:12I feel like the last minute, like getting out of the car, I can sometimes lock into that mode.
11:18Um, but yeah, yeah, sometimes.
11:21I mean, the public in general, like pretty much they know you as Tatiana, like that's who they see.
11:26What do you want them to know about the real tape?
11:28Um, I think that's for them to listen to my lyrics and kind of figure out. I think I feel
11:35like that's where all my deepest and most raw thoughts are in my music. And I think as a private
11:42person, I don't share that as much. Hence why I think I lean on this alter ego. But I think if
11:47people were to listen to my music, they would understand what kind of person I am at the core.
11:51What's your writing process like? Because especially in these deluxe songs, I feel like your poetry is
11:55really coming out. Yeah. I think recently I've wrote way more this year, poetry wise or journaling
12:02wise. Um, and cause I had so much time alone and so much time like in random parks and like
12:08fucking Prague where I'm just like, okay, what am I going to do with my time? Um, and I usually
12:15though would just get into the studio and it would just be stream of consciousness. It would just be,
12:20I'd hear chords or something would inspire me and just be lyrics. Yeah. Yeah.
12:25What else did you do with your time there? If you're like, not just Prague, obviously,
12:28but if you're just like finding yourself in a city, like what was your day to day?
12:31It's like a balance between preserving your energy and also wanting to see like the most gorgeous
12:35places in the world. I would, I went to a lot of parks and just like journaled and read and,
12:40um, we'd go to bodies of water and just sit there. Like in Zurich, I would, I just sat by the
12:45lake for like six hours one day, like just being like, wow, I can't believe I get to see all
12:50these places. Yeah. It's beautiful. Yeah. Do you write songs, uh, with your performances
12:54in mind? Um, I sometimes do. Like, I think if I'm being intentional and writing a song
13:02like sports car, a hundred percent, I'm thinking the beat comes first. Like what am I going to want
13:08to perform? But then if I'm writing songs that are, have to get a story across, I don't usually
13:13think about it. Yeah. I'll leave that to my choreographer. Yes. Yeah. You said a sports car
13:18was about taking control. What did you mean by that? Um, I mean, like literally, um, I think
13:26in that, at least in that time of my life, I felt really vulnerable with the media and that was
13:35inspiring a lot of my songs. And, um, even in that video, it's all about like watching myself and
13:41I'm the person sitting in the chair and like viewing this persona that I've created. And,
13:47uh, I felt like, I felt like I was kind of taking control back in that music video being
13:52like, I get to watch myself first. I get to judge myself first and I get to create art
13:57how I like before you get to have a say in it. I want you to take me all the way back
14:00now to young Tate. Okay. What was your childhood like in Canada? It was very, um, dance heavy.
14:08I was at the studio like 40 hours a week. Like I was just constantly, yeah, training. And my brother
14:16played hockey. So he was doing his thing. I was doing my thing. I'd be in and out of school,
14:22like homeschooling, not homeschooling. Like it was just kind of, we just were so, such passionate
14:28kids that we were just, we're working all the time. How did you get into dancing in the first
14:31place? My mom was my dance teacher. So I watched her my whole life when I was younger and I was like,
14:37put me in coach. Like for real, I was like, I just want, I'm obsessed with this. I'm obsessed
14:41with music and I want to do it. Yeah. We were also discussing how, you know, you were in these
14:47studios for so many hours that you didn't really immerse yourself in pop culture or have even like
14:51a chance to until a way later. Yeah. It was really, um, a culture shock coming into the music industry
14:57just because I just wasn't aware of so many things. I think being immersed in dance so heavily,
15:04so many historic films and ballets and, um, dances I would watch on the regular and I wasn't watching
15:13as much pop culture. It was, it was so much study of my current craft and I thought that was what I
15:21was going to do for the rest of my life. But I now I'm really grateful for that because I feel like it
15:25gives me a different perspective. And now obviously I know so much about pop culture and I feel like
15:30I've seen everything now, but yeah, definitely. You placed third. And so you think you can dance
15:36the next generation in 2016? Yeah. Uh, what, what are those memories for you? Like
15:42it's so funny because I felt so grown back then. I was 12. Like I felt like a full blown adult.
15:50My name is Tate McRae. I'm 12 years old and I'm from Calgary, Canada.
16:02I was like living my professional dance career at 12 and that sounds like insane now to think. Um, but yeah,
16:09I think it was weird. I was in LA for two months and we were performing on live television every
16:15Monday and we were getting judged and it was the first time I was exposed to like criticism and the
16:22internet. So it's interesting. Do you ever watch your old dance videos on YouTube? Like sometimes if we
16:28go down a deep spiral. When was the last time you wore pointe shoes? Um, I actually tried them on for a
16:36shoot like last week. Oh, that's awesome. They're so painful. Um, I definitely don't miss that at all.
16:41Yeah. It's, it's, it's really. Point was not my favorite. I love create with Tate. I think it's
16:46amazing. Um, walk me through starting that. Like what was your, you were so young. Yeah. I've always
16:53just needed to be creative in any way. And, um, I got bored a lot. So I would sit at my house and be
17:00like, okay, how do I put, like do something to keep me creatively inspired? And I remember I wanted to
17:07do choreography and dances on YouTube and posted every week. And it was like a challenge. And then
17:12literally the second week, my camera like got fucked up. And so I locked myself in my room for 20
17:18minutes and wrote a song. And I was like, I must post. I was like such a stubborn little kid. Like
17:23I must post this Friday. So I wrote a song and then overnight it just like went crazy viral. And
17:28I was 13 and it was the first song I ever like really wrote. And I got hit up. I like, um,
17:33how many, I don't know, a whole bunch of labels. And it was crazy. All of a sudden I was like,
17:38oh, whoa, this is a career. It happened really fast. It did. And then it was kind of like,
17:44I don't know what to do with this at 13, you know? Well, that's, that's what I always love.
17:48But when you talk about it, it's that you're doing these videos, you're like 13 and your parents are
17:52like in a corner of the room watching you do all of it. Yeah. It was the nerdiest, dorkiest setup ever.
17:58Was there ever a moment that you were like, I want to be a singer or was this a gradual
18:02overtime thing? I think over my 13, 14, 15 years when I started to feel like so confused as to who
18:15I was at school, I would get more and more emotional and more and more mute and have no
18:21idea how to talk to my parents or my brother about anything. And so my only outlet was literally to
18:26post YouTube videos about how I would feel being like, dear parents, dear, like so literal. Um,
18:32and it was my only way to communicate and to my friends as well. I found it really hard to be
18:36normal and not awkward. Yeah. And so it became my saving grace of middle school and high school.
18:42And then I was like, I can't live without writing. It really is like what helps me mentally to
18:48live life.
18:50And what about the moment you realized you wanted to be a pop star because you were already
18:54doing music and then it was this other kind of realization that you had, right?
18:58Yeah. Um, it was 2023 and I was just in my brain thinking about how I wanted to dance and sing at
19:08the same time and how that was even possible or how that could have been a possible reality. And
19:13then I just sat down and started planning and started envisioning exactly what my video was going to
19:20look like and feel like, and the sporty vibe and the pop star vibe. And I was like, I want to make
19:26one to the studio every single day with Tedder and Amy. And I was just like, let's make pop songs.
19:31And it was such a challenge for me because I'm, I don't really write music like that. It's much more
19:37emotional for me. And so, uh, it was so cool. And then when we ended up releasing it all as a,
19:43as a single Grady, it, um, I feel like kind of just changed people's perspective on who I was a
19:50little bit. Something that I really admire about you is that sometimes there's situations that you
19:56always meet with like such humor and like positivity. There was that recent, uh, moment on stage with
20:02the microphone. You had like a mishap and you had this really funny, like cheeky response to it
20:07about like the idea that you're lip singing, which is obviously not true, but the way you handled it,
20:12it was like incredible. I think there's just so much that gets misconstrued online.
20:20You kind of have to have humor with it. Otherwise you would go insane. Um, I think it's just funny
20:27because I've put so much effort into my shows and really am passionate about singing the whole
20:32time, unless I'm obviously like walking or doing a dance break or like as any person does in their
20:38shows. But I always get caught like all the videos are of my dance break or of me walking or of like
20:44this microphone flipped. And then I sang two seconds later and they, they cut the whole clip off. And
20:51I'm just like, Oh, this is a joke. Like there's nothing I can do to defend this because, um, there's
20:56too many things to defend. Like, I think you just have to be like, well, if you weren't there,
21:01you wouldn't know. And, um, trust the people that came to the show, loved it and had a great time.
21:07Yeah. And I think, you know, your album did leak when it came out. Um, and it's another example of
21:12how you persevere.
21:13I think that's the only way to kind of navigate through this career because those things happen
21:21all the time. And I think all you can do is flip it and be like, all right, this happened, this sucks.
21:29How can I use this to my advantage? And I thought it was funny. Like I started made the leak, this
21:34shirt and kind of made it a little thing with my fans because people already know, like it's already
21:39out there. And it, I think it's just now, like, how do I want this experience to go for me? Like,
21:45am I going to be down and depressed and not release the album or am I going to make this
21:49still unenjoyable experience?
21:52Yeah. And it was more than the album, right? It was like 600 songs or something.
21:55He said, I had like my entire catalog since when I was like 12 years old leak. And that
22:01just sucks because I think like writing music is such a personal thing. Like you have no
22:06idea if that song was like, I, some of those songs I never wanted to say the light of day.
22:10Some of those are just like diary entries. Some of them are just, most of them are just
22:14brutal. And I, you never want them to drop. And that's the point. You have to make a whole
22:20bunch of shitty art to get to the good art. And, um, yeah, I think those things just happen and you
22:27have to just keep going.
22:29What has it been like for you in the last year that you're more in the public eye more than ever?
22:33I think it's just forced me to learn a lot more about myself. And I think
22:39after going through a whole bunch of things this year and feeling like everyone has an opinion on
22:46me or who they think I am, it's just made me double down on my values and my morals and be
22:52like, well, I know who I am. My family knows who I am. My friends know who I am. And I'm a kind
22:56person and have the right intention with everything. I can sleep all night.
23:00And this is, as you were telling me, like, you now feel like you know yourself more than you ever
23:05have.
23:05Yeah. I do feel like I'm in a place where, um, like I'm leaving a lot with my gut and intuition and,
23:14um, and with people I trust. There's just like so many voices. I'm never going to live a life that
23:21I want if I'm listening to every person and people that I honestly don't even, you know,
23:28know or want in my life. Like I'm listening to strangers on the street. Like that's,
23:33I would never do that. So why would I listen to people on the internet?
23:37You're very close to the Libero Rodrigo and I'm sure she can relate to all of these pressures of
23:40fame like we've been discussing. Has she ever given you any advice?
23:44I think we both kind of talk about it because it's just a weird world. Like, and I think we're,
23:49we both see on either sides, like things of hers that get flipped around or things of mine that get
23:55flipped around. And all you can do is talk with your close friends and make sure that all of y'all
24:01are on the same page and you all love and support each other. And I think we're all good people.
24:07And that's really lucky and rare is my friend group is just like good, hearty, grounded girls
24:15and gays. And that's like our whole friend group. And that's like so fun and a blessing.
24:22What about this year? You've obviously, as we've said, had such a crazy time,
24:26but what other music have you enjoyed that came out this year?
24:29Oh my gosh. I listened to so much music this year. I feel like I need my phone to see what I've
24:35listened to. I feel like I've gone back. Like I went back and was listening to like
24:41old Dolly Parton albums and I was listening to like the Beatles yesterday randomly and Fleetwood Mac a lot.
24:49Um, but then I, everyone, so many people have dropped this year. I listened to so much Lana
24:55in Europe. I feel like that was the soundtrack to my life was just mystical Lana going through
25:02Europe. That's the only way you should go. The only way, like I'm just like, okay, so I'm never
25:06coming back here without listening to her. Yeah. Fans have said that they'd love to see you star in
25:10a Britney Spears biopic. Do you have any thoughts on this? I don't really act like I, like I need to take
25:16an acting lesson before I even consider like ever doing anything. Um, I also, I'd feel like I like
25:22look, nothing like her sound, nothing like her. So I don't know if I'd be a great fit.
25:27Are you writing music already? Where do you see this next era going into?
25:33Well, tour just ended three days ago. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I think just release this deluxe and, um,
25:40take a second and just recalibrate and figure out where I want to go next, but I haven't gotten into
25:45the studio yet. Yeah. And definitely like get some rest. Yeah. I'm going to sleep for a little while.
25:50Where do you see your career going many years from now? Like, are you going to be like a Stevie
25:54Nicks type, like still performing at like 77? Like, can you see yourself singing sports car?
25:59Damn, that's crazy. Um, I don't, I don't know. I feel like your perspective on this career can really
26:09shift like dramatically really quickly. I don't know if I'll be performing by 70, but maybe I will.
26:14Like, I don't know if I want to be doing sports car for that long. Um, hopefully there's like a cap
26:22and then I, you saw, I moved to Italy or something and just like chill. I hope, I hope that's what I
26:28do. Italy is like your, your dream place. I think so. Like, I think I just want to sit.
26:34I'm like, I'm so tired. My joints hurt. Yes. Um, I think you just want to like sit and chill and,
26:39um, live the rest of my life, like doing something else. But, but I definitely hope that this
26:44career lasts for a long time and I can write and create for as many years as I want.
26:52Yeah. Well, thank you so much for doing this.
26:53Thank you. So good to see you.
26:55You too.
26:56You too.
26:56I'm high in the back, inside of this room. So the windows go down, but don't make me choose.
27:04I think you know what this is. I think you want to stop. No, you ain't got no missus.
27:11Oh, but you got a smart scarf. Yeah, uh, uh, in it.
27:16Girl, you drive it real far. Yeah, you know what this is.
27:20Girl, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it real fast. Yeah, you drive it
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