- 17 hours ago
Over the past year, The Joe Budden Podcast has solidified itself as essential listening, covering the whirlwind news in the hip-hop world. The show's creator and host, Joe Budden got his start rapping on East Coast mixtapes in the late Nineties and early 2000s. Alongside his current co-hosts, Budden is now at the forefront of the zeitgeist, known for unvarnished takes on all things hip-hop culture.
In a new episode of The Rolling Stone Interview, he discusses how he transitioned from rap to podcasting and how everything he does is a quest for true freedom.
In a new episode of The Rolling Stone Interview, he discusses how he transitioned from rap to podcasting and how everything he does is a quest for true freedom.
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00:00I'm not really trying to appeal to a bunch of fucking kids.
00:06I'm not.
00:07If it happens, awesome.
00:10But in terms of getting on there and doing nothing.
00:15I don't know if it's all of that.
00:17I mean, but that's what you got to do.
00:27I'm Jeffy Haase with Rolling Stone,
00:29and I'm here with Joe Budden,
00:30the founder and CEO of the Joe Budden Network,
00:33as well as the host of the Joe Budden Podcast.
00:35Joe, nice to have you.
00:37Thanks for having me.
00:38I think your show, especially in the past year,
00:40has gotten to kind of like the top of the hip-hop media landscape.
00:45How has it been for this past year with host changes
00:48and kind of some of the drama that's been on the show,
00:50especially in the hip-hop world as well?
00:52I think it's been a pretty good year.
00:54We had a good 2025.
00:56We're fine.
00:57It's different when we're inside of it, doing it, right?
01:01Because we just put our heads down and go to work.
01:03The topics have been kind to us.
01:06The energy is good.
01:08We feel good.
01:08We feel good about where we sit.
01:10What would you say was kind of one of the biggest reasons
01:13or one of the biggest things you saw push the needle for y'all?
01:15I can't point to one specific event, right?
01:22I think the Drake and Kendrick beef helped a lot of just talk.
01:28So that was great.
01:30I think the news, like a lot of it is reliant on the news and the cycle.
01:33The news this year has been helpful,
01:36and we're blessed that the people want to tune in here
01:38what we have to say about some of these things.
01:41Again, also the new hosts just being consistent
01:46and trying to be the best.
01:48Like that's a daily thing for me.
01:52So, yeah, I mean, walk me through kind of how the show operates.
01:55You know, you guys come in twice a week, four days a week,
01:58and it's just you all sit there and get going,
02:00or is there a bit more of a planning process behind it?
02:03It's organized chaos.
02:05We come in Tuesdays and Fridays, and we do a powwow.
02:10We do a think tank, and we get our Sharpies and our phones,
02:13and we come up with a board and the things that we're passionate about,
02:16speaking about, the things that we feel good about, speaking about,
02:20and we make a soup, and then we get to it.
02:24So it's almost like a magazine where they're kind of pitching
02:26what they want to talk about.
02:28Well, I think for a podcast to be successful,
02:31you have to have something that you want to talk about.
02:33Like I don't want to be formulaic to where,
02:38because this is what's going on.
02:39This is what I'm asking you all to speak about.
02:41I never want to do that.
02:42It has to feel good.
02:43That's the artistry of it.
02:45Like there's an art involved, like a certain balance you've got to have.
02:51There's a format, but there's not a script.
02:54It's not a script.
02:55Yeah, so, I mean, we were talking about the mark and flip situation,
02:59which by the time this comes out will be old news,
03:01so I'm sure something new would have happened on the show.
03:03But, you know, when you have a moment where the hosts
03:06are kind of getting heated like that,
03:08how do you navigate that situation as the boss, basically?
03:12A spirited discussion is fine.
03:15And that happens a lot in podcast land.
03:18But I want to create a space where people are able
03:22to have those types of discussions and disagreements
03:26and back and forth.
03:27That's back to the art of it for me.
03:29Like every studio session when I was doing music,
03:31it wasn't exactly the same.
03:33And you're dealing with that many people, right?
03:35You come in, you can't account for the mood that everybody's in.
03:38All those variables happen.
03:39It makes this thing beautiful.
03:41And, I mean, when you put together kind of the different co-hosts on the show,
03:46you know, what's that like for you when you start to think,
03:48okay, I think I'm introducing, you know, some new energy
03:51or I want to switch out some of the energy.
03:53You know, how do you approach creating the dynamic that you guys all have?
03:57The chemistry, the science, the science of it.
03:59Well, we got a few co-hosts, right?
04:01Parks being the longest tenured,
04:04he's our engineer as well as an on-air personality.
04:10Parks, Ishan, Isha, I've known forever.
04:12So friendship is still at the fabric of this thing.
04:15And then you could just fill in your...
04:17So we got Mark, who is like a Swiss Army knife, Mark Lamont Hill.
04:21And he's from Philly.
04:22See, that energy is...
04:23Right, as we saw.
04:25Yeah, we need that.
04:26We need that.
04:26Everybody brings something different.
04:28Mona's a comedian.
04:29Like she's been on the road.
04:30She's on the road.
04:31Her comedic timing and timing in general is bar none.
04:37Queen's flip is just infectious.
04:40He's just dynamic in ways that, you know,
04:43everybody brings something unique to this thing.
04:46And when we get together, I do look at it like Voltron.
04:49Like the sum is much greater than the parts.
04:53Getting back to kind of the history behind all of this,
04:56what was the kind of beginning of it like for you?
04:58Podcasts were fun.
04:59But the beginning for me started before episode one.
05:02The beginning for me started with, again,
05:04having spirited conversations behind the scenes
05:06that the public or the audience were not privy to at the time.
05:12It's like, where can they be privy to this?
05:15Where can they hear just some of the behind the scenes
05:19and some of the backstory to some songs
05:21and some of the, what do we really think of this artist?
05:25So I just started there.
05:26And I was at the tail end of my recording career, right?
05:30Episode one, I was with Peter Rosenberg.
05:35Shout out to Peter Rosenberg.
05:37And I just wanted to kind of get information.
05:39So he was producing at the time.
05:40There was no guests.
05:41It was me and one other mic.
05:43It was like, okay, free reign for Joe Budden
05:47to just speak uninterrupted about just,
05:52we were talking about all types of shit.
05:53I think by episode three,
05:54we brought in my junior high school crush.
05:57Like she might've been one of our first guests.
05:59So we were just trying shit and having a good time.
06:02Because when I look, you know,
06:03going and researching,
06:04kind of looking through YouTube
06:05of some of the older episodes,
06:06the thing that I thought of was like,
06:07oh, y'all kind of grew up in the like
06:08Howard Stern era of radio
06:11where you kind of did have the,
06:13let's bring on my middle school crush or whatever
06:15and just shoot the shit for a little bit.
06:17Howard Stern, Wendy.
06:20Wendy Williams, yeah, yeah.
06:22Star.
06:23Like to do that back then and be impactful,
06:27you had to be of that ilk.
06:30So yeah, we came up in that.
06:32Those are OGs.
06:34There was an interview you had
06:34where you're talking about
06:36how you were briefly on Hot 97.
06:38I think this is right after Pump It Up.
06:40you start moving in the streets or whatever.
06:42And Kevin Lyles tells you
06:45you can't be on the radio
06:46and a rapper at the same time.
06:48Yeah, got to make a choice.
06:49Did you feel at that time like
06:51you were missing out on something?
06:54Yes.
06:54Well, because I was having all the fun
06:56on daytime radio, on the morning show.
06:58Like that was fun.
06:59And I was making more money on the radio.
07:03Yeah, it was a stable check.
07:05So what made you decide?
07:06A check every month.
07:07Of course he wants me to come back
07:09to the fucking...
07:10What makes you decide then,
07:12all right, I'm going to pivot back to
07:14or pivot more towards doing hip hop at this time?
07:17Well, I'm a musician.
07:19I'm an emcee.
07:20I'm an emcee's emcee.
07:22So if you're telling me at 23 years old,
07:2524 years old,
07:27hey, you have to make a decision.
07:29For me, I would be able to talk
07:30in my 50s and 60s.
07:33Right.
07:33I wouldn't be able to go out and tour
07:36and pursue a rap career.
07:38So that was always in the back pocket for me.
07:40Let me go over here and rap
07:41since you're saying I can't do both.
07:44And I'll get back to that later,
07:46the talking aspect of things.
07:49I just always thought it would be like
07:50on Hot 97.
07:51At that time, I guess the internet
07:52wasn't kind of like a thought of
07:54a place where you would do talk radio
07:57or podcasts.
07:58and be paid from it.
08:01No, no, not at all.
08:03God is good, right?
08:04Who knew that that would become this?
08:07Getting into like the internet,
08:08you'd always been someone
08:09who seemed a little bit ahead
08:11when it came to understanding the internet.
08:13I've been on the internet
08:13since day one of my recording career.
08:16Yeah, I mean, you were a pioneer
08:18of like digital distribution,
08:19putting things on, you know.
08:21What was your earliest experiences
08:23with the internet like?
08:24It was market research for me
08:26when I first got on Def Jam
08:28at the time
08:28wasn't really paying too much attention
08:30to social media.
08:31And I wasn't in the streets
08:33collecting information
08:34about how songs were performing.
08:36So it was like
08:37you had your all hip-hop,
08:38you had your boxed in,
08:41you had soul,
08:42it was chat room
08:43and chat boards,
08:44message boards,
08:45and that's where
08:46you grew community.
08:48So some of the people
08:49that are involved
08:50in my community today
08:51like started
08:52on that very first Def Jam
08:55who is Joe Budden
08:56community.
08:58What year is this?
09:0001.
09:00Oh, wow.
09:012001.
09:02That's when I got my deal
09:03up on my album out in 2003.
09:05So it was a constant,
09:08it was me telling Def Jam,
09:09hey, there's like people
09:10over here on the computer
09:12and like they're real people.
09:14Like we should account for them.
09:15Do you remember even personally
09:17kind of like
09:17being exposed to
09:18just logging on
09:19for the first time
09:20as a kid or something?
09:22No, the first time
09:23I started getting
09:24a screen name
09:26or any of that
09:26was 2001.
09:28Oh, wow.
09:29And the first thing you did
09:30was kind of look
09:30for hip-hop message boards
09:31or?
09:33Trying to be MC.
09:34Well, I was MC.
09:34I was trying to be
09:35a professional MC.
09:36I was trying to spread awareness.
09:38I was trying to meet,
09:38engage.
09:40Hey, what do you think
09:40of this song?
09:41Hey, where are you
09:42in the world?
09:43The chats on the phone
09:44where you would call in
09:45and it'd just be
09:46a group of these people
09:48on the phone.
09:48Oh, really?
09:49Yeah, we were.
09:51Yeah.
09:51So that's almost like
09:52the way Twitch works now.
09:54Yeah.
09:55Yeah.
09:56Well, I mean,
09:56even with that, right?
09:57Like my experience
09:58is from Ustream.
10:01Right, right.
10:02And what's the other one
10:03with a P?
10:04Periscope.
10:05Yeah, yeah.
10:06And Blog TV.
10:08And it's like
10:09I sat in front
10:11of these things
10:12and did everything
10:13that was outlawed
10:14back then.
10:15Like turning this on
10:16in a room
10:17where people had
10:18no idea,
10:19hey, what the fuck
10:20are you doing?
10:20You can't just cut
10:21a computer on
10:21and without telling us
10:23and stream us.
10:24You can't just play
10:25a song on here,
10:26a new song.
10:27Like the label
10:27has to get it.
10:28We have to clear it
10:29and it has to.
10:30And I'm like,
10:31this is fine.
10:33There's a value
10:34in these people
10:36hearing and seeing
10:37the creation of the song
10:38and how it comes together,
10:40who came in the studio,
10:41what girls you got,
10:42what's your value in that?
10:43But not at that time.
10:45Not at that time.
10:46A little too ahead
10:47of the curve.
10:47It's almost the inverse
10:48these days
10:49where if you now,
10:50if you want to be a rapper,
10:51you need to be in front
10:51of people all the time.
10:52You need to be on Kai's stream
10:53and then the next day
10:54on Blackboy Max's stream.
10:56Yeah.
10:56So it's kind of funny
10:57how it flips.
10:57They won't even let you
10:58be a rapper today
10:59if you don't have
11:00a social media project.
11:01Right.
11:01Is that interesting
11:02for you kind of to see
11:03like, oh,
11:04I was just too early to this?
11:06No.
11:06I mean,
11:08I'm pretty early to things.
11:11So that's not like,
11:13that was early.
11:14Whoop-dee-doo.
11:15The crowd was built, though.
11:16Whoop-dee-doo.
11:17And then before you had the podcast,
11:22you had Joe Budden TV on YouTube.
11:24Yes.
11:24Yes.
11:25Joe Budden TV,
11:26hey, 2007, YouTube.
11:30And this is the era of me again,
11:32again, just maybe a little bit
11:34before the time,
11:36but I'm walking around
11:37with a camera,
11:38putting it in people's faces,
11:40pause,
11:40and just recording.
11:42Joe Budden TV was very successful
11:44for me, really.
11:45Put a lot of eyes
11:45and gave me a lot of visibility
11:47at a time where I had none
11:49from my label.
11:51Yeah.
11:52It carried me.
11:53It helped to carry me.
11:54Was that always something
11:55that felt naturally
11:56to you kind of get in front
11:57of the camera
11:58or kind of engaging
11:58with kind of the people
12:00in general?
12:01It's all perseverance to me.
12:02Even if I wasn't accustomed
12:04to being in front of the camera
12:05at that juncture in my life,
12:07I would have gotten accustomed
12:08to it.
12:08I would have learned.
12:10I didn't know how to upload anything.
12:11I didn't know how to edit.
12:12I didn't know how to,
12:13it was funny,
12:14even me being in Best Buy,
12:15purchasing cameras,
12:16all of these first-time experiences
12:19and learning, right,
12:20because there's nobody
12:20to do it for you.
12:22I'm going to go
12:22and learn how to do it.
12:24Always.
12:24What is a will,
12:25there's a way.
12:25Who cares if we know
12:26how to do it?
12:26So there was never
12:27any kind of like,
12:28not shame,
12:29but like hesitation
12:31to putting something out
12:32where it's like,
12:33oh, is this too raw
12:35or is this showing too much?
12:36No, not in content.
12:38Yeah.
12:38In content,
12:39there's almost no such thing
12:40as too raw for me.
12:41Yeah, I've noticed that.
12:42Unless you're violating
12:43somebody's health rights
12:45or you're doxing,
12:46then you're taking it too far.
12:48And you want to be respectful,
12:49right?
12:50And you want to really stand
12:51in these things
12:52if you believe them.
12:53I'm not talking about
12:53getting on the mic
12:54and just becoming
12:55a whole different person.
12:57But if I say something on the air,
12:59there's a good chance
13:00that I'll say it off air, too.
13:03Now, in music,
13:04I have plenty of reservations.
13:06Because that's a different,
13:08that's a little different.
13:09Yeah, where's that balance for you,
13:11I guess, in music versus content?
13:12Well, to find more freedom
13:14in content to me.
13:16Let me say that.
13:19In music, you are,
13:22there are restraints.
13:24Let's see how to put this.
13:26In music,
13:28you got to find people
13:29that's going to like this beat.
13:31Then this hook.
13:33Then this verse.
13:34Then your voice.
13:34Then how you rhyme it.
13:36How you behave.
13:37You got to find people
13:38that like,
13:39it's like a million checkboxes
13:41that you got to hit
13:42in order to sell a song.
13:45And you will always be
13:47at the mercy of your audience
13:49because that field is so,
13:52the sandbox is so limited
13:54unless you are Taylor Swift
13:56or Adele, right?
13:58That's not the case in podcasting.
14:01In podcasting,
14:02it's like they say on the internet,
14:03you can go on the internet
14:04and get right information
14:06and wrong information.
14:07The pool is huge.
14:09All you got to do is be you.
14:11All you got to do is be yourself.
14:13But I mean,
14:13I feel like even with music,
14:14you were kind of a pioneer,
14:16if you will,
14:17of the sort of confessional,
14:19almost emotional rap, right?
14:22Well, yeah.
14:23And even that's,
14:24once you say that,
14:25I see all I hear is a box,
14:27another box.
14:29Everything in music,
14:30to me,
14:31after enough time,
14:32you start to just feel
14:33claustrophobic.
14:34It's just like,
14:35yes,
14:35I was vulnerable at a time
14:37where,
14:38again,
14:39maybe ahead of things,
14:40at a time where
14:41that wasn't so,
14:43wasn't so welcomed.
14:46My story that I was telling
14:47in terms of just addiction
14:49and just
14:50that type of struggle,
14:52that wasn't the story
14:53that was being told in hip hop.
14:54It was drug dealers,
14:56it was dope boys,
14:58it was hustlers,
14:59it was gangs,
15:00killers,
15:01and shooters.
15:02We didn't really give space
15:03to that story.
15:06And today I look up
15:07and that is,
15:08my story,
15:09it kind of is the main story
15:11out there now
15:12for these young kids.
15:13So,
15:14music is just very different.
15:16For me,
15:16it feels like
15:17a lot more freedom
15:18and room
15:19to just do what you want to do
15:21in podcasting.
15:22Now,
15:23that may be because
15:23podcasting has been
15:24better to me
15:25than music was.
15:26but that's how I feel.
15:29So,
15:29I mean,
15:29you make the decision
15:30officially to kind of
15:31step away from music.
15:33I think it was like 2016.
15:34I had made that decision
15:36long before
15:37but my final album
15:38was 2016,
15:39Rage in the Machine,
15:40Rage Against the Machine
15:41with A-Rap Music.
15:43But my album before that,
15:45which was all of Lost
15:46in 2014,
15:48I was done.
15:49You already checked out.
15:50I was done.
15:51I was done.
15:52That really was
15:53my goodbye album.
15:55But I needed some money
15:56to do what
15:57my next move was
15:59so we did another album.
16:02I mean,
16:02with your relationship
16:03in the music industry,
16:05did you always kind of feel like,
16:07you know,
16:08this,
16:08what I'm making is a product?
16:09You know,
16:10I'm making these albums,
16:11it's a product.
16:11These tracks,
16:12it's a product.
16:13Not really.
16:13Not really.
16:15To my own detriment,
16:16right?
16:16Like,
16:16I was rapping to live.
16:18I was rapping to be at peace.
16:22To go to bed
16:24and not have to hear voices.
16:26Like,
16:27that's what I was rapping for.
16:29At a certain point,
16:30it was like,
16:31okay,
16:31you did it for you.
16:33Like,
16:34I had 15 years,
16:3620 years of doing
16:38whatever the fuck
16:39I wanted to do for music.
16:40Now it's time to think
16:41about some other people.
16:42It's time to think about
16:43my son at the time,
16:45but my kids now,
16:46but my family.
16:47It's time to think about
16:48what I want my 40s
16:49and 50s and 60s
16:50to look like.
16:51And for me,
16:52that wasn't the road.
16:54That wasn't touring.
16:56That wasn't being so reliant
16:58on selling a CD
17:00for fucking $10.
17:01It just wasn't.
17:03Do you still feel like
17:04the compulsion
17:06or impulse to rap
17:08or to make music at all?
17:09No.
17:10So that's like
17:11a part of you
17:12that's just...
17:13It's alive in here.
17:14I just won't let it
17:16come out here.
17:18So you don't rap?
17:19No, I don't know.
17:20Not even at home?
17:21Well, in my head,
17:22I don't come up
17:23with a couple bars
17:24here and there.
17:24I just never write it down.
17:26Interesting, interesting.
17:27So I mean,
17:27when you start podcasting
17:29and you're talking
17:31to so many musicians
17:31and you're kind of engaging
17:33with the rap world so much,
17:34what's that like for you
17:35as someone who,
17:36you know,
17:37you used to do this
17:38professionally
17:38and now you're talking
17:39about it
17:40almost from the outside?
17:41I love it.
17:41One,
17:43because I'm not talking
17:44to anybody
17:45that I don't want
17:46to speak to.
17:48Like,
17:48I'm not just
17:49taking every Tom,
17:51Dick and Harry
17:51in a press run.
17:52Right.
17:53So that's fun.
17:55Two,
17:55I'm proud of these guys.
17:56I'm so proud
17:57of these guys.
17:59Like,
18:00I feel like
18:01some of the work
18:02we did
18:0220 and 25 years ago
18:05has helped things
18:06kind of be
18:07positioned to where
18:08they are now.
18:10I'm happy for these guys.
18:10I'm proud of these guys.
18:11These guys are making
18:12a fuck ton of money
18:13out here.
18:14They're doing
18:14what they want to do.
18:17They don't have
18:18the limitations
18:19that we had
18:20and I like that.
18:21I like that.
18:22Makes it feel like
18:23we fought for something.
18:25There's more tools now
18:27for the kid
18:28that wants to work
18:29outside of a system
18:30that he doesn't agree
18:31with or doesn't align with.
18:33You know,
18:33at the same time though,
18:34people kind of have
18:34this narrative,
18:36especially in the past
18:36year or two,
18:37that hip hop
18:38is on a downtrend.
18:39You know,
18:39the streams aren't
18:40as high as they used
18:41to be.
18:42You don't have
18:42the same level
18:42of superstars
18:43as we once had.
18:44That's Spotify's business.
18:47Please,
18:48the streams are down.
18:49That's Universal's business.
18:51I don't give a fuck.
18:52So you look
18:53at the rap world
18:53and you see...
18:54I still buy my music.
18:56Like $9.99,
18:58iTunes,
18:59whatever.
18:59Yes.
18:59I'm buying the music.
19:01If somebody hits
19:02a button one day
19:03and we can't stream anymore,
19:05I still want my music.
19:07There's nothing I love
19:07more than music on earth.
19:09I want my music.
19:09I'm buying it.
19:11Streaming was looked at
19:12like bootlegging
19:12when I was coming up.
19:14It should be looked at
19:15bootlegging now.
19:17So you don't buy
19:18into the narrative
19:19that hip hop is faltering
19:20or anything like that.
19:21Hip hop will never fail.
19:22When people say that,
19:23they're talking about
19:24the music business.
19:26This shit is a lifestyle.
19:29This shit is not dictated
19:30by corner offices,
19:33executives,
19:33and boardrooms.
19:35Now,
19:36how they choose
19:36to monetize it
19:37and their structure
19:38and all that,
19:39that's on them.
19:40But this thing
19:40won't die.
19:43Yeah,
19:43I mean,
19:43that's a good point
19:44because I think
19:45as much as people
19:46kind of talk about
19:47the numbers of it all,
19:48it still is the dominant
19:49cultural force,
19:51whether or not
19:52it's white kids
19:52dressed in a certain way
19:53or the way people
19:54talk on the internet
19:55and everything.
19:56My dad was into hip hop.
19:58I'm into hip hop.
19:59My son is into hip hop.
20:01His son will love it.
20:03This thing will just keep going.
20:05It'll just keep going.
20:05But it's our job
20:06to just continue
20:07to breathe life into it.
20:09And yeah,
20:10I mean,
20:10as someone who was
20:10releasing music
20:11kind of in the early 2000s
20:12and you enter
20:13into this new era,
20:14you know,
20:14you had your time
20:15at Complex
20:15with Everyday Struggle.
20:17You know,
20:17how did you navigate
20:18the younger generation
20:20coming in
20:21and you kind of being
20:22that elder statesman,
20:23if you will?
20:24I mean,
20:24I went through a period
20:25where I was pretty bitter.
20:27I mean,
20:27let's just be honest.
20:28I didn't feel good
20:29all the time.
20:30It was the classic
20:31Lil Yachty interview.
20:33Yeah.
20:33And you know what?
20:34I probably came off
20:35pretty bitter
20:36in that interview,
20:37but that was the beginning
20:38of me gaining understanding.
20:40That was the beginning
20:41of me being open-minded enough
20:43to even have
20:44these conversations.
20:45That was the first interview
20:46I ever did.
20:47And just as I evolved,
20:48I didn't want to
20:49live like that anymore.
20:50Some of these guys,
20:51some of these younger artists
20:52were calling,
20:52asking for help
20:53and asking for advice.
20:55And some of them
20:55were familiar with your work.
20:56And so you don't want
20:57to just be a dick
20:58because it didn't go
20:59the way you planned.
21:01But then my story
21:02wasn't done anyway.
21:03So you got to be careful
21:04not to judge your story
21:07in the middle of it.
21:08Are there younger artists
21:09now that you look at
21:10and you're inspired by
21:12or see potential in?
21:13Or is there anybody
21:14that you're excited about?
21:15Excited about?
21:16I'm excited about
21:17all the current R&B.
21:20So R&B is where
21:21you see it right now?
21:22Well, I'm R&B at.
21:24I'm a true R&B at.
21:26Shout out to some new artists.
21:27I like Kehlani.
21:28He's on an incredible run.
21:29He's on an incredible run.
21:30K1, Kenyon Dixon
21:32is always great.
21:33I still go and search for music.
21:35Like I go look for it.
21:37I don't wait for it
21:37to be put in front of my face.
21:39I love, I love this shit.
21:41I mean, speaking of
21:41you search for music,
21:42you know, you had a deal
21:43with Spotify at one point.
21:45Do you use any
21:46of the streaming platforms
21:46or how do you find music?
21:49I look for it.
21:52I'm just wondering
21:53if there's any
21:54ill, bad blood
21:55between you and Spotify.
21:57No, I have absolutely
21:58no bad blood.
22:00I've worked with
22:01a lot of great people
22:02over there.
22:03I have no problem
22:04with Spotify maybe
22:05except for their terms
22:06and conditions.
22:07Like it's not personal for me.
22:08We had a good time.
22:10We made history together.
22:12Like we made history together.
22:13What am I saying?
22:14So, you know,
22:15during that period I think
22:16is when the show
22:16really started to ramp up
22:18in a big way.
22:19And what was that like
22:20for you to decide,
22:21you know what,
22:22we're going to take this
22:23back for ourselves
22:25and not, you know,
22:25re-up with Spotify?
22:27Scary a little bit
22:28but empowering.
22:30Empowering.
22:30I'm always up
22:31for that challenge.
22:33What was going
22:33through your mind?
22:34What was going
22:36through my mind?
22:37I won't allow myself
22:39to be treated
22:39the way I was treated
22:40yesterday.
22:41So tomorrow
22:42has to be different.
22:43It was no deeper than that.
22:45So you were kind of
22:45thinking back to your
22:46experience in the music industry.
22:47Oh, it's always
22:49going to be,
22:50I'm always going
22:51to pull back
22:51from my experience
22:53in the music industry.
22:54Yeah, no, for sure.
22:56But in podcasting,
22:57it was scary
22:57but I mean,
22:58it was still fun.
22:59Like it was new,
23:00it was challenging.
23:01Even when we got there,
23:02right?
23:02Like it was there,
23:03hey, we need two episodes
23:04a week.
23:04They said that,
23:05not me.
23:06And I went to him
23:07in the corner.
23:07I said,
23:07two episodes a week?
23:09It's a lot of talking.
23:11Like,
23:11who the fuck
23:12do they think I am?
23:13But once you got
23:14in the groove of that,
23:16it was like,
23:17shit, I can do three.
23:18I can do four.
23:19I can do this
23:19if we start,
23:21if we begin to value it properly.
23:23And then that became my mission.
23:24Like, okay,
23:25I'm doing two a week.
23:26Let's start finding out
23:28the true value
23:28of some of these things.
23:30What were some of the
23:31like newer challenges
23:32when, you know,
23:33you go independent
23:34and now you're on Patreon
23:35versus having kind of
23:36the whole system
23:37of Spotify behind you?
23:38What was some of the stuff
23:39that you had to kind of
23:39learn or catch up on?
23:42Well, we learned a lot
23:43in our Spotify time.
23:44But I mean,
23:44in Spotify,
23:45I think the goal
23:46was to scale.
23:48I think after Spotify,
23:49the goal was to scale.
23:52Do you feel like
23:52it was scaling
23:53in a different case though?
23:54Yeah, well, yeah,
23:54because Spotify,
23:55you're working in,
23:56at Spotify,
23:56you're working
23:57in conjunction
23:59with them
24:00and you maybe
24:02aren't reaping
24:02so many of the benefits
24:04of the scaling.
24:05Right?
24:06You just got your head down
24:07coming to work
24:07trying to get it done.
24:09After Spotify,
24:10and I want to say
24:11that's somewhere around
24:13it was still in,
24:15the pandemic
24:15was still happening.
24:17Yeah.
24:17The pandemic was still happening.
24:18It just started.
24:19Yeah, no,
24:20the world was changing.
24:22The world was changing.
24:23So, I mean,
24:23I was happy to be employed.
24:25Yeah.
24:26I was happy
24:26to be employed
24:27back then.
24:28I mean,
24:28that's funny though
24:28you mentioned the pandemic
24:29because I feel like
24:30the pandemic also
24:31was such a big catalyst
24:32for, I think,
24:33content creation.
24:34It made a lot of people
24:36and it broke a lot of people.
24:37It made a lot of people
24:38and broke a lot of people.
24:39I'll say that.
24:39But if you were blessed enough
24:42to come out of the pandemic
24:43on your feet,
24:44then God is good.
24:46God is good.
24:48The pandemic,
24:50aside from the fucking horror show
24:52and that it was,
24:54was some content creator's best year.
24:57Oh, yeah.
24:57People had a lot of fun.
24:59Yeah.
25:01And people created
25:02a lot of businesses, right?
25:03Like, D-Nice
25:04and his quarantine lives.
25:08He took that on the road.
25:09People did well.
25:10People did well.
25:11I was blessed enough
25:12to continue to do well
25:13even post-Spotify.
25:14Has it always kind of been
25:15your goal
25:17or your mission
25:17to kind of stay
25:18in Jersey
25:19versus coming to the city
25:21like I think a lot of people
25:22would assume?
25:23I like Jersey.
25:23I like Jersey a lot.
25:25Well, you grew up in Jersey.
25:27For the most part.
25:28Yeah.
25:28For the most part.
25:28Like, from 14 on.
25:31And then you went to high school
25:33in North Carolina?
25:34I went to high school
25:35in North Carolina,
25:36Laurenburg Institute
25:37in Laurenburg, North Carolina.
25:39I was there for maybe
25:40two years,
25:42a year and a half
25:43before I went to
25:44Lincoln High School
25:45in New Jersey.
25:46And I was there
25:48for maybe
25:48close to a year
25:50before I just went
25:52to my own high school
25:53in the streets.
25:54I don't know.
25:55Your own high school.
25:56Yeah.
25:57Do you remember anything
25:58in North Carolina at all?
25:59Did that experience
26:00have any impact on it?
26:01Hell yeah.
26:02That shaped me.
26:03That's where I learned
26:04how to fight
26:05and fuck
26:06and do drugs.
26:09That's where I learned
26:09how to rob people.
26:11In North Carolina?
26:12Yes.
26:12You would think that
26:13Jersey would teach you that?
26:14No, not at all.
26:15I was at a boarding school.
26:17It was a boarding school.
26:18I see, I see.
26:20We were stuck there
26:21with idle time
26:22and nothing to do.
26:23Is that when you
26:24started rapping?
26:24Yeah.
26:25People were there
26:26from all over the country.
26:27So you got to hear
26:28this guy rap
26:29and he's from Kansas City.
26:31You got to hear him rap.
26:32So you would just
26:32get high and rap.
26:34So yeah,
26:34that's where I started that.
26:36I was in the choir
26:36there too though.
26:37I was singing.
26:38I was the lead.
26:38You were singing?
26:38I was the lead.
26:39My voice,
26:40I was a singer
26:40before I was a rapper.
26:41Drugs and fucking
26:42bad decisions
26:43and regrets
26:45kind of
26:46turned into rap.
26:47Yes.
26:48In North Carolina
26:48that turned into rap.
26:50Turned into rap.
26:51And by the time
26:51I got back to Jersey
26:52it was about
26:53alright,
26:54how do I let Jersey
26:55know
26:55that I'm rapping?
26:57And for me
26:58that was Cypher's
26:59in the streets
26:59and high school.
27:01High school
27:01was just for me
27:02to go there
27:02and rap
27:03and leave.
27:04What was
27:05kind of going on
27:06in hip hop
27:06in that moment?
27:08Wu-Tang.
27:08Right, right.
27:09Wu-Tang is going on.
27:11So the east coast
27:11is still kind of
27:12the center of
27:13everything.
27:14Oh yeah,
27:14for sure,
27:16for sure.
27:16When I dropped
27:17down to high school
27:18is when
27:19Outkast.
27:21In the south
27:22started to
27:22Yeah.
27:23We're talking about
27:24like the CD
27:24mixtape era,
27:25right?
27:26We're like getting
27:26a placement on
27:28so-and-so's
27:29mixtape
27:29is a big deal.
27:31You know,
27:31what do you remember
27:31about that culture
27:32versus kind of
27:33the way things are today?
27:34That's a really
27:35interesting question.
27:37So much good music,
27:39good rap music
27:40is and has been
27:42lost
27:43because of
27:45the business dealings
27:47from mixtape
27:48to stream.
27:51Right?
27:52Right?
27:52That was
27:53when drama
27:54got locked up
27:55they started
27:56arresting the DJs
27:58and threatening
27:58the DJs
27:59locking up
28:00the people
28:00selling CDs
28:01on 34th Street.
28:02That was a big deal.
28:04Napster was happening
28:06at the same.
28:07There was a fight
28:07for,
28:08there was a fight
28:09going on
28:10for rights
28:10and ownership
28:11and many of the artists
28:12especially mixtape artists
28:13had no idea.
28:15We were just doing it
28:16for the love
28:17and so today
28:18like some of those
28:19songs you can't find.
28:20You can't find
28:21some of these
28:22records.
28:23We didn't know anything
28:24we were just rapping.
28:26So there is no more.
28:27I don't know
28:27if there's a dat piff
28:28anymore.
28:29Sound cloud struggles
28:31right now
28:31it's regulated.
28:33It's regulated now.
28:34Same thing
28:35they did with weed
28:35they did with music.
28:37It's regulated.
28:38You know
28:38when I think
28:39of that culture
28:39back then
28:40it almost seemed
28:41like it was self-sufficient
28:42where it was like
28:42you had the DJs
28:43who would put these
28:44mixes together
28:45and then you had
28:45the rappers
28:45who kind of
28:46understood the culture
28:47that these DJs were in
28:48whereas now
28:49even though
28:50there's so many ways
28:51to put music out
28:52you know
28:52if I'm a kid rapping
28:53I'm throwing it up
28:54on YouTube
28:55maybe I'm trying
28:56to get the good
28:57reaction YouTubers
28:58to talk about it
28:59but it feels like
29:00it's not quite
29:01the same.
29:02Yeah but at least
29:02even there
29:03you know
29:04there's a business
29:04there and they're
29:05monetizing that.
29:06Yeah.
29:07That wasn't so much
29:08the case with
29:09all of that music
29:10that went to these DJs.
29:12I never got paid
29:12for rapping
29:13on these mixtapes
29:14for promotional use
29:15only.
29:16Right.
29:16Right.
29:16Yeah.
29:17So.
29:18But you could also
29:18do shows off of that
29:19and that's how you would
29:20Oh please
29:20knock it off.
29:21Knock it off.
29:2250 Cent was doing
29:23shows off mixtapes.
29:24Not you.
29:25I mean
29:26I was
29:26but it was very different.
29:27Very different.
29:28You're talking about
29:29being able to
29:29make a living.
29:30So when things
29:31start to get
29:31you know
29:32more commercialized
29:33and you end up
29:34signing to the label
29:35you get pumping up
29:36kind of comes out
29:37what was seeing
29:38the inside
29:39of the belly of the beast
29:40like in those early days?
29:42Well I didn't know
29:42because I saw my success early.
29:44So Pump It Up
29:45came early
29:46my album came out early
29:47I got money
29:48I got a Hummer
29:49and then I left
29:51and I went to do
29:51what the fuck
29:52I wanted to do.
29:53And then Kevin Loud
29:54and Def Jam
29:55and them would say
29:55hey second album
29:56hey second album
29:57hey you getting cold
29:59out here second album
29:59fuck you
30:01I'm in the streets
30:02making money
30:03and then the money
30:04goes away
30:04and then the car
30:06gets repossessed
30:07and then the business
30:07accountant steals
30:08all your money
30:09and then you go there
30:09to try to make
30:10a new album
30:11and they're like
30:11fuck you
30:12then the whole building
30:12leaves
30:13because Kevin Loud
30:14and Leo are left
30:15and then new people
30:16come in
30:16and they're like
30:17who's this guy
30:17no new album
30:18get him out of here
30:19and now you're back
30:20on the streets
30:20see how fast it happens
30:21blink of an eye
30:2205 and 06
30:24I may have spent
30:25trying to get out
30:26of my Def Jam contract
30:27and whatever other contracts
30:30I happen to be in
30:31that I shouldn't have been in
30:32right
30:3207 and 08
30:34I try to take some control
30:35of my situation
30:37and that's kind of
30:38when Joe Budden TV
30:39starts as well
30:40Joe Budden TV
30:41that's when I start
30:42digital only releases
30:44I just tried to experiment
30:46in some different ways
30:47like I said
30:47that carried me
30:48that helped to carry me
30:50in 2009
30:502010
30:51I helped form
30:52Slaughterhouse
30:53the group
30:54me
30:55Joel
30:55Crooked
30:55Royce
30:56we put out an album
30:57on E1
30:58very successful
30:59we then ended up
31:01on Shady Records
31:02Interscope
31:03so now we're back
31:04on the
31:04back in the building
31:05back
31:06back in the building
31:07kinda
31:08did that
31:08and my solo career
31:10and so I just didn't want
31:10that wasn't
31:11what I saw for myself
31:12that wasn't
31:13wasn't fun anymore
31:14as a creative
31:15when it's not fun
31:15I'm getting out of there
31:16and then when you
31:17kind of pivot
31:18into the podcasting
31:19did you ever see
31:19what you were doing
31:20as like journalism
31:21or was it
31:22kinda something
31:23different
31:23I didn't see it
31:25as journalism
31:25I have a healthy
31:26respect for the
31:27journalists
31:27I was talking shit
31:28I was talking shit
31:30journalists
31:31were journalistic
31:32yeah
31:33even though now
31:34it's a lot blurrier
31:35you know
31:35it's blurry
31:36but I think
31:37we still need both
31:38we need the journalist
31:39that's gonna
31:39thoroughly vet things
31:41do their due diligence
31:42and uphold
31:43the responsibility
31:44to all their
31:44journalistic integrity
31:46and all that shit
31:46I wanna talk shit
31:47I don't wanna have
31:49to uphold
31:50the value system
31:51I wanna come
31:53and say
31:54this is what I see
31:54this is what I think
31:55this is how I feel
31:56when did you start
31:58to feel like
31:58there was value
31:59kind of in the
32:00broader audience
32:01for that
32:01that's a good question
32:02that's a tricky
32:03question
32:04right
32:04I mean
32:06if I started
32:07my podcast
32:07in 2015
32:08in 20
32:11by 2016
32:12I was looking up
32:13saying
32:13how long
32:14do y'all expect
32:14me to do this
32:15for free
32:15by 2017
32:18I was still
32:20trucking it
32:20because
32:21I'm not a quitter
32:22were you monetized
32:23at that point
32:24oh please
32:25yeah
32:27but what does that mean
32:28and in 2015
32:30there was no landscape
32:32like so
32:33today we can say
32:34were you monetized
32:35but what did that mean
32:37that was
32:37that meant
32:38getting people
32:38to understand
32:39what this shit
32:40what this shit is
32:41like
32:42and there was no video
32:44yeah
32:45when I started
32:46it was audio only
32:47Spotify wasn't
32:48giving out bags
32:49Apple wasn't
32:50giving out bags
32:50they hadn't set up
32:51their subscription
32:52but I was getting ads
32:53and I fucked them up
32:55I fucked them up
32:57I didn't understand
32:58what was going on
32:58what was
32:59what happened
33:00I just didn't understand
33:02I was still talking shit
33:03I was still doing it
33:05for fun
33:05I didn't get into
33:06the business of it yet
33:07one that comes to mind
33:09is the talk therapy ad
33:10that I did
33:10that company's been around
33:13for a minute I guess
33:13well in 2016
33:15maybe they asked me
33:16to do something
33:17so I'm reading the sheet
33:19on the air
33:19and once I got to
33:20what they were asking
33:21people to pay
33:22I was like
33:22wait what
33:23call me
33:25I'll get you
33:27out of your depression
33:28if you're paying
33:30these people that
33:30so they didn't call back
33:32that's too much
33:33they were like
33:34fuck ads
33:35I didn't want to do that
33:37and kind of to your point
33:38about you know
33:38just want to come on
33:39and talk shit
33:40you know
33:40you've obviously
33:41kind of like famously
33:42had different beefs
33:44or different
33:44altercations
33:46if you will
33:47with different people
33:47in the hip hop world
33:48you know
33:50has it ever
33:50like gotten too personal
33:51where somebody's like
33:52too like overly upset
33:54at something you said
33:55or
33:56I mean if you ask me
33:57I think they're all
33:57overly upset
33:58I don't think it's ever
34:00gotten too personal
34:01not for me
34:02not for me
34:03and I don't try to
34:04I don't try to just
34:06have disagreements
34:07with people
34:08but
34:08and most of them
34:09we come around
34:10and we have a full circle
34:11moment
34:12and talk
34:13and gain understanding
34:14but
34:15it's never gotten too bad
34:16do you feel like
34:17I feel like
34:18when I think about
34:19your show
34:19especially going back
34:20even to the complex days
34:21which is I think
34:22kind of when I first
34:23became aware
34:24of kind of what was going on
34:25it was like
34:26no one was
34:28willing to say
34:29the shit that you were saying
34:31and that's kind of
34:32what I think
34:32kind of pushed you ahead
34:33of so many people
34:34in the commentary space
34:35was it was really you
34:36an act
34:37who was like
34:37just willing to
34:38say whatever
34:39yeah
34:40fire
34:41you know
34:42was there ever
34:44any moment of hesitation
34:45is there just no fear
34:46and kind of how do you approach it
34:47no
34:48like it's not even
34:49going through your mind
34:49like ooh
34:50somebody's about to
34:51no
34:52no
34:53you just let it rip
34:54but again
34:55I'm not trying to be
34:56disrespectful to people
34:57like the things that
34:58that people get upset
34:59about me saying
35:00you know
35:01it's music
35:02so it's sensitive
35:02but it'd be like
35:04oh this album's not good
35:05like I'm not saying
35:07fuck your family
35:08you know
35:08I'm saying
35:09your album's not good
35:09as a
35:10someone that purchases music
35:13I should be able to say that
35:14that's true
35:15and music is so valuable
35:17that we should have
35:18people to discuss it
35:20like
35:21they do sports
35:22they should
35:23the music shouldn't just come
35:25and go
35:25and that's it
35:26they should
35:27we should have these conversations
35:28about it
35:29yeah
35:29there's already been
35:30kind of a bit of
35:31a host rotation
35:32I guess you'd call it
35:33where some people
35:34have been in there for a minute
35:35left
35:35new people came in
35:37they left
35:37you know
35:38what is that dynamic like
35:39for you internally
35:40as you know
35:42a lot of shit gets aired out
35:43on the show
35:44the gig is the gig
35:46do you tell people
35:48that kind of coming into it
35:49as you vet them
35:50or whatever
35:50it's like your shit's
35:51going to be exposed
35:52if you join us
35:54I leave a nice surprise
35:55leave a nice surprise
35:57for them
35:57no I think
35:59most people that come in
36:00have a good idea
36:01of what they're walking into
36:02when Ice and Ish first came
36:03Ish
36:04didn't know
36:05probably what a podcast
36:06was even
36:07so
36:08he was probably
36:09just coming
36:09to talk some shit
36:10everybody else
36:13for the most part
36:13I think
36:13has a good understanding
36:14of
36:15just how big
36:16the show is
36:17what it requires
36:18what it calls for
36:19and you know
36:20that level of vulnerability
36:21how do y'all
36:22diffuse that tension
36:23you know
36:24after the cameras
36:24are off or anything
36:25and tensions
36:26have been high
36:27somebody might have
36:28yelled at this person
36:29over here
36:29you know
36:30do y'all kind of
36:30is there like a
36:31kumbaya vibe
36:32afterwards or
36:33people know that
36:34when the cameras
36:35are rolling
36:36it's showtime
36:38we're entertaining
36:39the audience
36:41is in mind
36:41no matter what happens
36:43when the cameras
36:43are on
36:44the second they stop
36:45like we're still
36:46we still got pretty
36:47good relationships
36:47with the people
36:48in the room
36:48like there's no
36:49it's not much
36:50carryover
36:51most times
36:52most times
36:53have there been
36:54times where it did
36:55I'm sure
36:56I'm sure there's been
36:57like we you spend
36:58too much time
36:59together speaking
37:00about too many
37:01topics
37:01for there to not
37:03be carryover
37:05onto the balcony
37:06to talk about
37:07whatever now
37:08so it comes
37:09with the territory
37:09and you know
37:11when people
37:11exit the show
37:12you know
37:14what is that like
37:14is it
37:15because you know
37:15the internet
37:16speculates
37:16where it's like
37:17so and so got
37:17fired or this or
37:18that or is it
37:19more often
37:20the internet
37:20is always going
37:21to speculate
37:22so you got to
37:24be able to deal
37:24with the internet
37:25speculating on things
37:27but next man up
37:27next man up
37:29we got a good crew
37:30that was the thinking
37:31in having a
37:32an ensemble cast
37:35right
37:36I've been there
37:36before where
37:37it was just
37:38four of us
37:40or three of us
37:41and two people
37:42left
37:42or four of us
37:43and two people
37:43left
37:44and now it's just
37:44no
37:45the great thing
37:46about an ensemble
37:47cast is next man up
37:48everybody's still
37:50here to get to it
37:51so I can deal
37:52with whatever
37:53the internet
37:53is saying
37:54it was very hip hop
37:55music focused
37:56for a minute
37:56and then I think
37:57Mark has brought
37:58a more political
37:58social issue
38:00Mark's brought a lot
38:00yeah
38:01you know
38:02what's it like now
38:03kind of entering
38:03into that terrain
38:04where his music
38:05has been kind of
38:05the focus
38:05for so long
38:06none
38:07I think
38:07I think
38:08we allow him
38:09to be him
38:09without getting
38:10in his way
38:11and he does
38:11the same
38:11for us
38:12like
38:13none of us
38:14have CNN
38:15experience
38:16and none of us
38:18enjoy the politic talk
38:19the way that
38:20Mark does
38:20so we just let him
38:21get in his back
38:22he's great
38:23he's a great
38:24broadcaster man
38:25yeah
38:25yeah
38:25I mean he's been
38:26doing it for a long
38:26time
38:27yeah
38:27he's got a lot
38:28of experience
38:28I hate to just
38:29put him in
38:29I know most people
38:30know him from
38:31his political commentary
38:33but
38:34I think this show
38:36has been a good
38:37opportunity
38:37for him
38:38to showcase
38:39just how
38:40multifaceted
38:41he is
38:42it's kind of
38:43also the inverse
38:43too where it's like
38:44the show is
38:45multifaceted
38:45yes
38:45yes
38:46yes
38:46there's a good
38:47exchange
38:48happening
38:49yeah
38:49and do you feel
38:51any sort of
38:51political responsibility
38:53as that grows
38:54you know
38:55it's like
38:55now we're living
38:56in this weird
38:57political era
38:58and you kind of
38:58have this
38:59this platform
38:59that matters
39:00to a lot of people
39:01you know
39:02do you feel
39:02a sense of
39:03we got to make
39:03sure
39:04we're putting
39:04forth the right
39:05things
39:05I always want
39:07to go to work
39:07and be responsible
39:08always
39:09that's
39:10not just
39:11a political
39:12thing
39:12I want to
39:13get on there
39:14and make sure
39:14that we're
39:15saying things
39:16that are
39:17that we believe
39:18and that are
39:19factual
39:20like
39:21that's just a
39:22right and wrong
39:23thing
39:23like I came to
39:24work and said
39:25hey
39:25they're killing
39:26people on the
39:27streets
39:27I think that's
39:27fucked up
39:27that's not me
39:29leaning toward
39:29a side of
39:31the market
39:31and all that
39:32I'm into
39:33right is right
39:34wrong is wrong
39:35real simple
39:36would there ever
39:37come a time
39:38where
39:38there's a
39:39political
39:40candidate
39:40as a guest
39:41on the show
39:42maybe
39:43maybe
39:44like a
39:45Kamala
39:45or I mean
39:46I thought
39:46that Kamala
39:47should have
39:47should have
39:47did our
39:48show
39:48I agree
39:49I thought
39:49it would
39:51have helped
39:51too
39:51but
39:52you know
39:53people are
39:53looking at
39:53numbers on
39:54sheets
39:54so
39:55but
39:56I wouldn't
39:57mind that
39:57and then
39:58you know
39:58in addition
39:59to Mark
39:59I think
40:00Mona has
40:00been on
40:00the show
40:01now
40:01for a
40:02month
40:02well by
40:03the time
40:03this comes
40:04out
40:04longer
40:04but
40:04yeah
40:05well how
40:06did you
40:06kind of
40:07how did
40:07that
40:07happen
40:08I've been
40:08a fan
40:09of Mona
40:09on her
40:09own show
40:10I've been
40:11kind of
40:11monitoring
40:11her
40:12from afar
40:13like scouting
40:14like an
40:14yeah
40:15yeah you
40:16got damn
40:16right
40:17do you
40:17see like
40:18a need
40:19for kind
40:20of like
40:20a gender
40:20balance
40:21and then
40:21even you
40:21got Parks
40:22over there
40:22kind of
40:22the resident
40:23white person
40:24in a way
40:24like does it
40:25feel like
40:26that looks
40:26like we got
40:27a token
40:27white guy
40:28in the room
40:28but that's
40:29that's
40:29by mistake
40:30you need
40:30people that
40:31have things
40:32to say
40:32you need
40:33dynamic
40:33personalities
40:34you need
40:35people that
40:35are comfortable
40:36in who
40:36they are
40:36I'm not
40:37really looking
40:38at who's
40:38white
40:39who's a
40:39girl
40:40who's a
40:41those things
40:42are cool
40:43but
40:43some other
40:44qualities
40:45you need
40:45to be able
40:47to get down
40:48in this room
40:48the thing I think
40:49about the most
40:50is how much
40:50of your show
40:51ends up on
40:51TikTok
40:52and how that
40:54kind of ends up
40:54I feel like
40:55young people
40:56might not know
40:57anything about
40:57you know
40:58anything going on
40:59on Hot 97
40:59anything going on
41:00in the traditional
41:02hip hop radio
41:02sphere
41:03but they know
41:04who you are
41:04even though you
41:05don't really
41:06fuck with that
41:06music
41:06yeah but I mean
41:09they've seen me
41:10screaming and acting
41:12the fool
41:12or TikTok
41:13so many times
41:13that they're
41:14just familiar
41:14or their parents
41:16are listening to me
41:17I'm appreciative
41:18of the TikTok
41:19algorithm
41:20and what it does
41:21what it does
41:22for our audience
41:23do you think
41:24about what it
41:25would look like
41:25for you to
41:27engage like
41:27the younger crowd
41:28would you
41:28is there like
41:29a Gen Z
41:30Joe button
41:31no
41:32no
41:33I like the
41:34aging thing
41:35like I'm not
41:37really trying
41:37to appeal
41:38to
41:39a bunch
41:41of fucking
41:42kids
41:42I'm not
41:43I got my own
41:45kids
41:45if it happens
41:46awesome
41:47but
41:49in terms of
41:50getting on there
41:51and doing
41:51yeah no
41:55I don't know
41:55if it's all of that
41:56I mean but that's
41:57what you gotta do
41:58if you're trying
41:58to appeal
41:59it's a
42:00you gotta dance
42:01you gotta stream
42:02fight
42:03you gotta be
42:04funny
42:05back to music
42:06constraints
42:07and now you gotta
42:07be all these
42:08things
42:08why you can't
42:09just be yourself
42:10I just wanna be
42:10myself
42:11that's all I wanna
42:12be it's the
42:13simplest thing
42:13so you did
42:15no streaming
42:15for you
42:16I won't say
42:17that
42:17today they
42:18look at
42:18streaming
42:19like just
42:19a younger
42:20demo thing
42:21I don't
42:21I was
42:22streaming
42:22right
42:23I just
42:24won't be
42:25on there
42:25saying chat
42:27every 10
42:28seconds
42:28like I'll
42:29find a different
42:29way to
42:30I'll find
42:30an age
42:31appropriate
42:31way to
42:32stream
42:33and as
42:35the
42:35show
42:36kind of
42:36grows
42:37and the
42:37JBN
42:37network
42:38gets more
42:39broad
42:39you know
42:40do you
42:40envision
42:41a future
42:41where there's
42:42offshoots
42:43where you're
42:43maybe not
42:43the main
42:44host
42:44but separate
42:45shows
42:46offshoots
42:47I see a
42:47future
42:48where
42:48there's a
42:49movie
42:50a movie
42:51a doc
42:52a TV
42:53show
42:53I look at
42:53this shit
42:54like entourage
42:54anyway
42:55so yeah
42:56when I look
42:57in the future
42:57it's limitless
42:59options
42:59a lot
42:59a lot
43:00a lot
43:00to be
43:00done
43:01yeah
43:01I mean
43:01something
43:01that I've
43:02seen a lot
43:03of your
43:03interviews
43:03you talk
43:03about is
43:04this idea
43:04of freedom
43:05and that's
43:05kind of
43:06being like
43:06a big
43:06pursuit
43:07in a lot
43:07of what
43:07you're doing
43:08and you
43:09know
43:09what does
43:09that look
43:10like to
43:10you now
43:10hmm
43:14I feel
43:16pretty free
43:17now
43:17hmm
43:17ah
43:20what does
43:21it look
43:21like
43:21it looks
43:21like freedom
43:22of choice
43:23looks like
43:24freedom to
43:24make the
43:25decision that
43:25you want
43:26to make
43:26what else
43:28does it
43:28look like
43:28that's what
43:31it looks
43:31like
43:31freedom
43:32to decide
43:33for you
43:35yeah
43:36that's what
43:36it looks
43:37carefree
43:37it's scary
43:39still
43:40that's the
43:41part they
43:42don't tell
43:42you about
43:42freedom
43:43plenty
43:43plenty of
43:44time to
43:45fuck it
43:45up
43:45yourself
43:46with the
43:47freedom
43:47but I
43:48love it
43:49I wouldn't
43:49have it
43:50any other
43:50way
43:50well this
43:51has been
43:51a great
43:52conversation
43:52I think
43:53I love
43:53it
43:54I love
43:55it
43:55we were
43:55just eating
43:56up
43:56you
43:58I love
43:59that
44:00what
44:00what
44:00what
44:01is
44:01going to
44:03get
44:04to
44:04se
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