00:00The ONI delivered its report in December of 2022.
00:07We participated in putting together of that report in the Security Leaders Climate Group.
00:14So we were privy to some of the early thinking that might be in it.
00:19But the report has been kept secret by the government.
00:23And I recognise that it's a classified report.
00:28We think that the government should allow either a statement in the House or some report
00:34in the public space for the findings.
00:36And you know, it's really interesting because I've got here the annual threat assessment
00:40from the Director of National Intelligence in the United States, which spends a little
00:46bit of time, five pages, on climate change and consequences and threats to the United
00:51States security.
00:53Why can't we?
00:54Why can't MPs in this House?
00:56Why can't people running select committees here have access to the information?
01:00All right.
01:01So by comparison, there was a short reference to climate in the defence strategy.
01:08And I think that addressed defence's bases having to adapt and have energy resilience.
01:15Is that a start?
01:17Well, it's a kind of start, but it's very limited.
01:20In our report issued today on is it too hot to handle, we point to the issues of the northern
01:27bases in which the government's planning to invest significantly.
01:32We point to the impact of heat conditions, particularly heat in which is not liveable
01:40and not operable.
01:42And that will have some impact on those defence bases.
01:45But it sort of raises the question in your mind, well, what about a city like Darwin?
01:50What does that mean in terms of climate change consequences for the people who live in Darwin?
01:54Are we going to put them underground like we do in Cooperpedia or are they not going
01:58to live there or what?
02:00Another reason why we think we're not taking it seriously.
02:03I think we've discussed before, and again, we're addressing it today.
02:06If the government had advice on something like climate migration from Pacific islands,
02:13just imagine that it did some work on a scenario where 200,000 people had to be relocated to
02:21Australia.
02:23What is the general benefit for the population here knowing about that?
02:29I think the most important part of it, Greg, is you can certainly prepare people for what's
02:34going to happen.
02:36You know, I think, unfortunately, in Australia, we often have a bit of a record of waiting
02:40for it to happen and then figuring out what we're going to do.
02:44I would much prefer that we get on the front foot and we start to think about these consequences
02:48and say to ourselves, what can we actually do?
02:52Now, our region is very open to Australia taking leadership on some of these kinds of
02:59roles.
03:00That's one of them.
03:01OK, so what's outstanding or what further demands would you and your group put on the
03:07government in the near term, in the next six months or so?
03:11Look, we think that the government is trying to walk away from the idea that climate change
03:18consequences are an existential threat, potentially.
03:22If we're talking two and a half degrees Celsius of warming up to three and a half degrees
03:26Celsius of warming.
03:27We've embarked on a national adaptation plan, which began last month.
03:32We're all invited to put in comments on what it might look like.
03:36Its objective, we're told, is to educate public servants about climate change at local,
03:42state and territory and federal government levels.
03:47The major thing that's missing from all of that is the involvement of the communities.
03:53And it's not the first time I've said this, but if we persist in doing risk assessments
03:57and doing assessments on adaptation without taking the community into account, we're
04:02going to be missing a big part of the jigsaw puzzle.
04:06And then we operate as though mitigation or fossil fuels and all those things are separated
04:12from the idea of a national adaptation plan.
04:14I mean, if you look at the record of project approvals for fossil fuel industry, there
04:19hasn't been much change from the previous government.
04:21So who is best placed in the federal bureaucracy to pull all this thinking together?
04:27Obviously, it's not, in each and every case, defence, nor the climate or energy agencies.
04:35Who?
04:35Well, I think there are several parts to how we see it.
04:39First of all, in our view, there ought to be an ongoing threat assessment from climate
04:44change cell inside the Office of National Intelligence.
04:49It ought to be looking at the weak signals leading up to potential change.
04:54I think from a whole of government perspective, we need a climate change SAR.
05:00We need someone to bring it together.
05:02And I would argue, answerable to the Prime Minister and the government, but not necessarily
05:09ministers.
05:10I mean, I think what we're seeing at the moment is a siloed response to a lot of this
05:15stuff and it's not being brought together in a comprehensive way.
05:19That is whole of government or whole of community.
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