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02:17 Maybe you could afford to pay up to $22,500 in fines and lose your license permanently.
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02:29 A message from the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
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02:38 Good evening Trinidad and Tobago and welcome to Beyond the Tape.
02:42 My name is Whitney Husbands and we have officially entered the brand new month that is March.
02:47 March 1st.
02:49 And the month of March we'll be celebrating women.
02:52 So of course we'll be acknowledging some amazing women out there.
02:55 And if you have amazing women around you, feel free to just send them a message.
02:59 You know, greet them and let them know how much you love them.
03:02 Alright? Now we get ready to jump start the show.
03:04 This week we spoke a lot about home invasions.
03:07 And remember next week we'll be discussing school violence.
03:10 But we have back with us no stranger with us, acting ASP Steve McKenzie.
03:15 And we'd like to welcome him. Good evening to you, Steve.
03:18 Good evening Ms. Husbands. Good evening Trinidad and Tobago.
03:22 Good evening TV6 listeners and viewers.
03:24 Once again it's my pleasure to be here.
03:26 Great. How was your week? Because we are now approaching the weekend.
03:30 Well I'm happy to know that we're in a new month.
03:32 So it's amazing.
03:34 I'm also happy to know that it's Friday.
03:37 So we're starting off the show in a positive way.
03:40 Yes, the week has been challenging. It had its ups and downs.
03:43 But thank God I'm alive. And thank God we are alive.
03:46 Amen to that.
03:48 Now speaking about the down side of things, sorry to go there immediately.
03:51 But the discussion that happened this week was the musical content that comes out of Trinidad and Tobago.
03:57 When it comes to the Trinibad genre of music.
04:01 Because we are known for Calypso, Elkaiso, Rapso, Soca.
04:05 And then now we have Trinibad.
04:07 And I want to hear your thoughts on it.
04:09 Because I'm sure you have interactions with a lot of persons, young persons, in your communities, on the streets.
04:16 And where do you see that genre of music taking our young people?
04:21 I think those who are living out of studying the effects of music, or should I say the negative effects of music,
04:33 are very strong in their opinion as it relates to those persons who are influenced by the lyrics in some types of music.
04:44 It can cause persons to be more violent, or some sectors of our society to be more violent.
04:51 People tend to live in the woods of the music, or in the lyrics of the music.
04:56 We see as an organization where we can append some of the lyrics and some of the songs and some of the persons singing in that type of genre of music to criminal gangs and criminal activity.
05:09 So I'm mindful of what the Prime Minister would have said earlier this week as it relates to his stance in relation to the lyrics and that Trinibad style of music.
05:20 And as an organization, we are in full support of any initiative, any act by government, non-government, the artists themselves,
05:31 that would encourage that level of self-awareness among citizens, that would cause persons to act responsible, that change behavior that is needed in our society.
05:44 So the more positive influences we have in society, and in this instance we're speaking by way of the genre of our music,
05:51 it would assist us as police officers because we have less to focus on in terms of negativity as a society.
05:58 But we live in a democratic society. That is the order of the day for Trinidad and Tobago.
06:03 And freedom of speech, to an extent, because when people hear freedom of speech, they feel they can say and do what they like.
06:11 And their actions also. But we still are governed by some sort of order, some rules that we must follow.
06:19 But would you say, apart from that, we could argue that movies are also part of the issue, because they are violent movies,
06:30 but they are different ratings, where it's either rated G, that is for everyone to see, rated PG, PG-13, rated R, rated MA, mature audience.
06:41 So who controls that? Is it that we put it in the hands of the authorities to say, "Okay, we are controlling this because we realize that the homes, you'll have no control."
06:52 Because there are some songs my own child wouldn't know, because I'm not exposing my child to that.
06:58 So would we really blame the music, or are we going to... Is it even blaming? It is exposing then our children to certain things.
07:07 Or we have passed that because of social media. And is it that the artists are really living their reality, and they're speaking their truth?
07:15 Well, again, we have to really look at the science behind what we're saying. What does the evidence of the music actually suggest?
07:24 Is it a case of when persons speak about some actions in a particular song?
07:32 Maybe killing someone, or robbing someone.
07:34 Let me use this example. I remember back in the day, my father would say when they went to cinema as young men, and they watched a comedy, as we would know it,
07:44 when everybody come out in the theater, they feel a little bit jetty at the time, or bruceleys at the time.
07:52 But the same thing could be said in terms of the music and the lyrics in the music.
07:58 There may be genuine reasons, or there may be genuine cause for concern in that what is being heard to the ear of a young mind
08:11 influences that particular person along a particular path.
08:15 Of course, in the absence of proper guidance, or in the absence of proper parenting, or with sufficient peer pressure, or that association,
08:24 you recognize that those persons may have negative intents because of what they're hearing.
08:32 And the part in terms of censorship is something that we have to consider as a society, because we have censorship in terms of movies.
08:42 So is it time for us to consider censorship in terms of the music that we listen to?
08:48 That will be a difficult thing, because in today's world we have the worldwide web, and the question is how do we control?
08:54 It's easy to access these things, but are we, the adults, are we really in control when it comes to the censorship that we have in our homes?
09:05 That is the major question, because we could have this conversation until we are blue, just like religion, and everybody will have their feelings about it,
09:13 and they'll stand on one side according to what their belief is, but it will all boil back down to what we expose our children.
09:24 And I think as parents and as guardians and persons in authority, or persons with responsibility for children even, we need to take responsibility for nurturing the young minds,
09:35 for molding those children, and of course ensuring that, as a parent, as we often recommend to persons, monitor your child, monitor the activities of your child.
09:43 But do we really? Do we?
09:45 Well, in some instances, some persons do, because it's evident by the child that comes out, and then in some instances we can argue that some persons don't,
09:55 again because of the evidence in the child thereafter.
09:58 And if we fail now, that child will someday be an adult, that child will someday be a parent, and of course then what values and what morals would be instilled in their children?
10:09 And is it a case of, if we think we're bad today in 2024, how would we be in 2034 with all the correct steps or measures taken to correct some of our ills?
10:21 Because our foreparents would be probably telling the gives if they had an opportunity to see where we are today.
10:26 No, I will say this, right? When we shield our children as much as we can, because we have parents out there and adults who try to shield the young ones,
10:37 even guardians, not just a parent or godparent, whatever the case is, someone who you are taking care of under the legal age.
10:44 And you then put them in a school environment among other children who may have been exposed to things that your children, that you don't want your children to be exposed to,
10:57 that is where it comes very ticklish, because I remember going to primary school, my parents don't use obscene language at all.
11:07 And if you get the word donkey, which I can't say on air, that's the biggest obscene you will get.
11:14 And I really learn about all the curse words in the curse word or obscene dictionary from my peers in school.
11:25 And I knew it was wrong to speak like that because at home they dare not even slip and use words like that.
11:36 And I was able to hear it, know about it, what it meant and in which context to use it in school.
11:45 And it's because not saying the entire school or the students, I was wrong, they were using that, but there were the ones, not the majority, that was basically, I will say,
11:56 at that age I was what, in standard one and hearing my other peers in standard one using obscene language, they're mimicking adults.
12:04 And I think some parents themselves would be shocked to hear that, no, that can't be my child, that had to be somebody else's child.
12:11 Because the child they see in their space or home is a totally different person.
12:17 So sometimes parents are very surprised when they hear about the activities or the conduct of their children.
12:23 But the issue of mentoring also continues to arise. And we're saying that if we mentor, if we guide, if we do our parts as parents, as leaders, as coaches, as persons,
12:41 a good neighbor, a good aunt, a good uncle, a good brother, we would all add to developing that child.
12:49 And yes, there are some things that we cannot control in terms of when a child is exposed to school and peer pressure and the things that they're not familiar with at home, they're exposed to at school.
13:02 Yes, because those formative years, you're in that space where you're finding yourself.
13:06 We have adults right now who can't even, if you ask them, tell me a little bit about yourself, they can't.
13:11 Because they are themselves trying to still figure out who they are as a person, so far as a child who, I mean, they're like a sponge, they will absorb.
13:23 Mentoring, mentoring, we need good mentors. And I encourage each of us who considers ourselves young, as a matter of fact, throughout life, regardless of how old you are,
13:34 find someone who you consider to be a good mentor. Find someone whose attributes in that particular individual that I want to emulate.
13:42 And of course, use that mentor positively, so that we can all improve on ourselves to be someone better.
13:48 And as I was saying, if indeed we each do our part as it relates to every individual in our circle, when the child is exposed to negative influences,
13:58 there's a less chance, the possibilities are far less that the child would follow the negative crowd.
14:08 So let's do our part.
14:10 We do have to do our part. But I am just still, if the Gen Z generation sees that the things that we consider wrong, they see it as okay.
14:21 So if the person that they're looking up to is someone who clearly their characteristics or their traits and the way they carry themselves and the things that they believe is not what society is right,
14:35 how are we going to say that this person is really and truly not influencing our children when they see that what they're doing is success?
14:44 Correct, because even now, today, the question of what is right and what is wrong is something that is subjective.
14:50 Yeah, there's no definitive answer for this is right, this is wrong. And that is what is scary right now.
14:59 But we have to continue to really send the message of what we believe in terms of right and what is wrong.
15:07 Because our responsibility as adults, the children, is to mentor, is to teach, is to guide.
15:13 And in the absence of that, they would naturally tend to gravitate to whatever, which includes the truly bad music.
15:22 Well, the argument can continue because, you know, I'm sure the music you used to listen to your parents, what's trippiness is that you're listening to?
15:30 Same thing with my parents. And there are some songs when I hear my daughter really play, I'm like, what is this?
15:35 I'm involved in the urban market, right? So even there are some songs and I'm getting older.
15:44 That's why like, when you're trying not to be that judgmental, but sometimes you don't even know what they say, you know what the meaning is.
15:51 And we have to dive in more into it. But it is almost like, yeah, boy, I am either becoming like my parents, like they were with me.
15:58 Or is it that I am embracing what's happening and what we embrace and is it really nourishing us or is it really just garbage?
16:05 I think some things are inevitable in terms of us not having an ear for some things that are new and trending.
16:14 It sounds like noise. Sounds like noise. It sounds like garbage.
16:19 Some people consider it garbage.
16:21 That's the best song of the year. Yes. Yes. You serious?
16:24 Yeah. But sometimes it's the beat that causes the song to sell even more.
16:28 It has a catchy beat so you will gravitate it and you will not even take on the lyrics until one day you just run and you listen to the song and you realize,
16:35 but what madness is this I was singing? But it's a catchy beat.
16:40 Guys, we'll take a break and when we come back, we'll continue with more to be on the tape.
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17:44 And we are back and of course with me we have ASP McKenzie with us and we discussed a lot about home invasions this week.
17:52 As I was the topic of the week and we are also giving our viewers the opportunity as well.
17:57 You could call us up also by calling us at 623-1711 extension.
18:03 1992, 1993, 1996 and 1997.
18:07 Now, let us cover up some of the or reiterate a little bit more of what we discussed this week with home invasion.
18:14 So in case persons missed it, things that they could make themselves a hard target when it comes to burglary and home invasion.
18:23 Yes, I am certain that someone would have said earlier in the week that home invasion is not necessarily a crime in Tibetan.
18:29 But we have offenses that kind of fall into the envelope of home invasion.
18:35 Offenses such as break-ins and robberies and the like.
18:40 So, we have a lot of things that fall under the home invasion side of things.
18:44 But we have offenses that kind of fall into the envelope of home invasion.
18:49 Offenses such as break-ins and robberies and you know home invasion generally is when someone gets into your home to commit a crime within your home.
19:03 And of course, once someone is in your home, then as a homeowner, as I was saying, you are the king of your castle.
19:11 Then of course, there are some entitlements to you in terms of the defense of your property.
19:16 But of course, in defense of your property, you also have to be reasonable in terms of the level of force that you use.
19:24 If the force is reasonable at all and if the force is necessary.
19:27 And it's not a case that as soon as someone enters your home, you're entitled to open fire.
19:33 But I think that would be the case if you're unwanted in my space.
19:36 I'm not waiting to ask you a question, what are you doing in here?
19:40 I didn't invite you. I don't know who you are.
19:43 It's really important that we understand that any time we use force, the force has to be reasonable in the circumstances.
19:54 So even if you were to engage me now, and at this immediate time, I am entitled to use force to subdue you, to stop you, to save my life or the life of another.
20:06 From the time you run away from me, probably to escape also, my life is no longer in immediate danger.
20:14 So to exercise another level of force may not be justifiable.
20:18 Again, depending on the circumstances. So we have to always weigh everything and measure everything based on its own circumstance.
20:27 And of course, as we mentioned before, making yourself a hard target.
20:32 In terms of making yourself a harder target in terms of your home.
20:36 Bear in mind, I want persons to do this for me.
20:41 Take some time this weekend.
20:44 Walk around your property.
20:46 Ensure that there is nothing in your property that would be an attraction for a thief or someone who wants to come into your property to remove that valuable item.
21:00 Whitney, have you ever been locked out of your home?
21:02 Yes.
21:03 And when you're locked out of your home, you look for those vulnerable spots in your home.
21:08 To slide back in?
21:09 Yes, to slide back in. And you feel for some reason you know those spots or those areas in your home that I can get in the house. I know where to go.
21:17 The same way you are identifying those spots is the same way someone with ill intent can identify those spots.
21:25 As police officers, sometimes we are amazed by what criminals do and how they even enter some areas.
21:33 We are shocked.
21:34 So don't take things for granted.
21:37 Ensure that your house has cameras.
21:40 It's better to have a camera that is not working and acts as a deterrent than to have no camera at all.
21:45 It's better to pay an extra $2 or $5 on your light bill than to have no lighting at all and you are a victim of a crime.
21:54 It's always better to ensure that we take the necessary steps to make our home a hard target.
22:03 Definitely.
22:04 Don't put your keys in an area where someone can fish it out and things like that.
22:07 It's easily accessible.
22:09 I want you to take a look at this video of protests earlier this morning in Chin Chin that took place and police were on the scene.
22:16 Now, all citizens of Trinidad and Tobago have the right or rights to protest.
22:24 Yes.
22:25 And that is understood.
22:27 But when we see protests like this, what happens next?
22:33 So there's a difference between your right to protest and someone breaking the laws that are written.
22:41 Your rights under the Constitution must not be contrary to any other written law.
22:49 So if as law enforcement persons are peacefully protesting, which they're entitled to, then you'll see a police presence to ensure that the peace is preserved.
23:03 So do you have to inform the TTPS before you do a protest?
23:08 Not for the protest. Recently we had a judgment from the court challenging that aspect of how we practiced our law enforcement in relation to protests.
23:24 And the lone judge would have indicated that under the Constitution, you have a right to protest.
23:32 However, under the laws of the land, if you were to have a march or if you were to have a public meeting, you require the permission of the commissioner.
23:43 So to do. But in any one of these scenarios, there are conditions.
23:48 And of course, those conditions must not be contrary to any written law.
23:52 I'm trying to figure out the difference between a march and a protest, because if you're doing a march, it's not for a march pass.
23:59 It is more so for your feeling that some sort of injustice was dealt to you and you are now protesting.
24:08 But in the form of marching, you're not doing a protest, a fiery protest in this case, like what we saw.
24:15 So if someone asks for permission to hold a march, they must give the conditions.
24:20 So they will tell the commissioner, we expect X amount of persons.
24:23 This is the route for which we expect to hold the march and the commissioner will then give certain instructions.
24:30 The march is allowed to be conducted between X time and Y time along this particular route.
24:37 No persons are allowed to speak and that kind of stuff, because it's a difference between a march and a meeting.
24:43 If for some reason there are breaches in those conditions, whoever is the senior officer would identify who is the leader of the march and have a conversation with him as it relates to.
24:52 So to be clear, with the march, I mean, it depends on if like what you inform the officer or wherever you're doing the march.
25:03 And you in that march, you can't have any sort of verbal announcement being said or you could.
25:10 Unless the permission is expressly permitted.
25:13 So if you were to have engagements or if you were to have a public meeting, so remember we talk about a public meeting.
25:23 Correct. And a march.
25:24 So if your application is to go to Woodford Square at a particular time and engage a crowd and you will have X speaker and Y speaker and they will be speaking.
25:34 That's a separate type of application.
25:37 If your intention is to march from point A to point B and congregate at Y point and have a meeting, that could be included in your application as well.
25:46 It has to be clear.
25:47 Yes, it's separate and apart from someone going in front of your workplace as a private citizen and you have a placard and you're silently protesting.
25:58 The law tells you that that is permissible once there is no breaches of any law.
26:04 We have a call on the line. Hello. Good evening.
26:08 Hi. Good evening.
26:09 Eliza.
26:10 Hi. Good evening.
26:11 Good evening.
26:13 I saw the protest a while ago and I saw a police officer keeping the people back, which is something I always talk about.
26:24 We need to publish some sort of document where when the police turn out the operation, people must stay X meters away, whatever the distance is.
26:34 And I'm glad to see that police officer was pushing people back.
26:38 And the second one is with me.
26:41 Based on the incident in the Gasparillo KFC, a gentleman took a knife to a gun party and he came second.
26:52 I heard you say that you have a knife in your car at one point for protection.
26:58 A knife is no protection against AR-15 or any kind of weapon.
27:05 So I think the best place for a knife is to stay in the kitchen.
27:07 And when we have a problem, let's try and get on to the police as early as we could.
27:11 Thank you very much.
27:13 And listen to your responses out there.
27:15 Thank you.
27:16 Thank you, Caller, for your kind comments.
27:18 And I want to agree with you for the most part.
27:20 So he spoke about police officers pushing persons back.
27:23 Yes, during a protest.
27:25 Of course, the police officers, whoever responds to a protest, and in particular a protest like what we saw a short while ago, is firstly to preserve the peace.
27:35 So as officers, you want to gain a certain amount of control.
27:39 There was a fire, and of course we want to ensure that persons are not endangering themselves or endangering any other person on the roadway.
27:49 Of course, for police officers to operate, we want to ensure that there is no other person obstructing the police officers as they execute their duty.
28:00 There may be times when the police officer will call for support from the regional corporations, the Collegiate Railway, or the fire service, as the case may be.
28:07 So it's expected that as law enforcement, they will want to get rid of those persons who are in breach of the law.
28:15 And sometimes we exercise constraint by not arresting persons in the first instance, but trying to get the crowd disseminated, go to their homes and that kind of stuff.
28:28 So there's a measure of warning that would be issued to the crowd in terms of their conduct.
28:32 Because it would become very unruly.
28:34 Yes, in terms of conduct.
28:36 And of course, there are times as law enforcement when you have to take drastic action and arresting those persons or those few persons who you recognize that may be influential in creating that violent...
28:53 Fueling.
28:54 Yes, or fueling the fire, so to speak.
28:56 Or they may be constantly in breach of the law after repeated warnings.
29:01 So antagonizing persons to do unruly things could of course cause a whole ripple effect that you don't want.
29:10 Yes.
29:11 Alright, I will take that. We take a break. When we come back, we continue with your call and more.
29:16 (Credits)
29:41 (Credits)
30:10 (Credits)
30:32 (Credits)
30:36 We are back. ASP Mackenzie, let us talk a little bit quickly before we dive into our next media release that is coming up with regards to use of force in a protest. Quickly.
30:48 So, as police officers, we have what we call the use of force policy.
30:52 And we are trained in such a way that we move from one stage to another to treat with any violent offender or persons who are resistant and that kind of stuff.
31:03 Your first level is that of the officer's presence.
31:09 And of course, you can continue to climb the ladder in terms of your use of force.
31:15 Ultimately, some non-lethal options that police officers have would be things like pepper sprays.
31:20 In the not too distant past, we didn't have such options so that you had to be sometimes a bit more forceful to suppress the unruly crowd.
31:31 In today's world, after sufficient warning, the officers may, if they are equipped with the pepper spray, deploy pepper spray.
31:37 We have things like spark guns that can be used as well to suppress unruly persons.
31:45 We also have the Guardian Emergency Branch.
31:47 So, when the protest reaches the level where the divisional police are not equipped to treat with it, they can call for the Guardian Emergency Branch, who has particular training to deal with that riotous type crowd.
32:03 And of course, at that stage, you expect that persons would be arrested, persons would be dealt with according to as they deserve.
32:13 Yes, definitely. In our media release today in the Western Division, the Western Division sees over 1.7 million in marijuana.
32:23 The Western Division continues to coordinate exercises geared at dismantling all operations of drug trafficking and other criminal networks in the division.
32:34 This was or this as they made two additional seizures, totaling 49.79 kilograms of marijuana with an estimated street value of 1.7 million dollars during anti-crime exercises conducted in St. James and Maraval in the last 24 hours.
32:55 And in yet another exercise conducted between 5 a.m. and 9 a.m. on Friday, the 1st of March, 2024 in the Western Division, officers seized 5.59 kilograms of marijuana with an estimated street value of 178,500.
33:15 This exercise was held in the Maraval Police Station District by officers attached to the Western Division Task Force and the Western Division Gang and Intelligence Unit.
33:27 Along with that, on Thursday, February 29th, 2024, officers seized 13 bales containing compressed marijuana and arrested a 38-year-old welder who was in possession of 334 kilograms found in a vehicle yesterday.
33:45 The drug has a street value of 5.5 million dollars. This brings to a total of 383.79 kilograms of marijuana with an estimated street value of 7.2 million dollars being seized by the division over the past 24 hours.
34:06 A job well done by the TTPS. You know I will always commend when I see. It is not just to highlight only negative.
34:13 Yes, as an organization, we're always very proud of officers when we recognize good work.
34:18 So well done to Senior Superintendent Henry and his team at the Western Division.
34:23 Officers continue to do the great job and that is an excellent find by the law enforcement community.
34:30 Of course, there are many other instances where police officers, I mean on a daily basis, would arrest persons with narcotics that sometimes doesn't actually make the front page or make the media.
34:41 So even to those officers who continue to be on the front line and continue to engage persons and of course detect offenses in this instance, the narcotics, congratulations to you and keep up the hard work.
34:53 Now since we did criminalize marijuana in Trinidad and Tobago, not legalize, so we make that differentiation quickly because people believe it's legal.
35:02 No, it's not.
35:03 It's just decriminalized where there are certain criterias that must be followed.
35:09 So 30 grams, it's the limited amount that you could have on four trees per person in a household.
35:16 Correct. Now with the eye, I'm just asking here, of the TTPS, if you, let's say you pull me over and you find marijuana in my vehicle, is it that you have a device that will weigh that to be accurate or are you just going to estimate this looks more than 30 grams?
35:35 The average officer would estimate it unless of course you're so fortunate to have a scale and that scale would only come into play if the officer is very convinced that the amount you have is beyond the required amount.
35:50 What I would tell officers, and this is not scientific, if you go to the supermarket and you know sometimes you see things like oregano in the pack and there's a weight, you have an eyeball idea of what is the weight of that, the flight substance.
36:09 So to marijuana, although the marijuana may be a bit more dense, it still gives you an idea of how much.
36:16 And of course as an officer, continues to engage with members of the public and continues to challenge persons, they would have an idea of how much is the required amount that a person should have on the person at any one time.
36:29 I just want to clarify again, for some reason there are some persons who believe that because it's decriminalized, you have permission to use it in the public space. You do not.
36:40 People do.
36:41 I see.
36:54 You can be arrested and charged. Now, once it's a certain amount, you are given an opportunity where you are not arrested, of course.
37:04 But you'll be warned?
37:05 Not necessarily because it's decriminalized.
37:08 Okay.
37:09 But of course, if you are using it, regardless of the amount.
37:12 In public?
37:13 In public.
37:14 You can be charged?
37:15 Well, you can be ticketed. That's another issue by itself, but you can be ticketed.
37:18 We have a call on the line. Hello, good evening.
37:22 Hello?
37:23 Hello, good evening.
37:25 Good evening, sir.
37:26 Good evening.
37:27 Yes.
37:28 Good evening, sir.
37:30 Good evening, sir. I just want to ask a simple question here.
37:35 I want to know when exactly is the police going to start enforcing the law against noise pollution.
37:44 And let me be clear. There's a law under the federal federal law called the "creation of public nuisance."
37:52 I am 70 years old. I have been reading newspapers since I was old enough to read.
37:57 I started to work in 1972, and since 1972, I buy and read an expert every day.
38:03 I have never seen any time where anyone was arrested using that law.
38:08 So I thought, I'm concerned I could be wrong and I start to be corrected.
38:12 I thought, I'm concerned I don't think that law was ever enforced.
38:16 That law not being enforced is one of the reasons that we have a noise pollution problem.
38:22 No one seems to know that. Not even anybody in the media seems to know that.
38:27 Yes, I know that.
38:29 But my question is again, when will the police start to enforce the law against noise pollution?
38:37 I have been fighting a noise pollution problem in my district for over 20 years.
38:43 I have written Attorney General, Police Commissioner, Minister of Health,
38:48 and the police continue to talk and kick the can down the road.
38:51 And excuse after excuse, decibel meter is this, is that, one thing after the next.
38:58 What's the excuse?
39:01 The excuses are, "Do you have a decibel meter?"
39:05 What?
39:07 Somebody, one minute you hear, "Do you have a decibel meter?"
39:12 The next excuse is, "Well you know when the police go and lower the music."
39:16 I mean, come on. How infantile that is.
39:19 If I'm a police officer and I get a call that a bar is playing music loud,
39:22 and I drive towards the bar, and when I turn up in my flashing lights, the bar lowers the music.
39:28 Am I not sensible enough to realize I'm supposed to pass back in about a half an hour,
39:32 park a little where we are and walk up to the bar?
39:35 And all these excuses, as I said, I have been on this fight for 20 plus years,
39:39 I know all the excuses and I also know the law, because I Googled the law myself.
39:43 I know the law.
39:45 And there was a case recently with some wild goose something,
39:49 and the three judges who officiated that case, they said quite clearly,
39:54 they said noise pollution is a tort and a crime.
39:58 Yet the police in Trianthebago still not enforcing it.
40:02 I want to know will the hierarchy of the police service ever feel ashamed
40:07 that they are failing law-abiding citizens in their homes?
40:12 Every weekend, Miss Whitney, there's a group called Citizens Against Noise Pollution Trianthebago.
40:19 They are active on Facebook.
40:22 You can visit that group and you will see every single day people are complaining.
40:28 Penal, Coover, Princess Stone, Aruka, St. James, Driego Martin, and the police still not doing their job.
40:36 And this is a bar in your area?
40:39 Yeah, more than one bar in my area.
40:42 I'm not going to say where I'm living, but I will tell you, I've been writing on it for years.
40:47 Police officers would have visited me and tell me nonsense, we're going to have a discussion
40:52 so we could work something out because they're running a business.
40:54 But that's nonsense.
40:56 Thank you.
40:57 You can't be running a business.
40:59 All right, listen, we have to cut you off. Sorry to cut you off now.
41:02 But we have other calls that we have to take and of course we could answer that as well.
41:06 So with regards to the noise pollution situation, I know sometimes there are residential areas
41:13 and then there are commercial areas.
41:16 And what differentiates the two?
41:19 Because you could be in a residential area and there's a bar in this case in the area.
41:23 All right, so let's take a break and when we come back we will comment on that and more after this.
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43:11 So the caller had some issues when it comes to noise pollution in the area,
43:15 and there are many residential areas where we will see businesses, and many times you'll see bars.
43:21 It depends on the area that you reside.
43:24 And where do we stand with that?
43:26 Where persons may have a business or even play loud music from home,
43:30 they have DJs at home and they just don't care, or the hard pong in the vehicle.
43:35 Where do we step in as, you know, or you all, not us, but the TTPS steps in?
43:41 Let me compliment the caller.
43:43 He seemed to understand some aspects of the law where the noise pollution, as you referred to it,
43:50 and the noise becoming a nuisance is concerned.
43:54 And in relation to us as police officers policing that aspect of that area of the law,
44:01 the authority falls under the Summary Offenses Act.
44:04 As police officers, firstly, we cannot arrest persons for summary offenses
44:12 unless those offenses are committed within our view.
44:15 What we can do, we can ensure that those persons who appeared before be caught by way of summons.
44:20 So let's understand that firstly.
44:23 So that will be privately done if someone comes?
44:26 No, no.
44:27 Same process.
44:28 Okay.
44:29 So if it's a summary offense and you consider yourself to be a victim of a summary offense,
44:33 you make the report as law enforcement.
44:35 We conduct an investigation where we have sufficient evidence to lay charges.
44:39 We would lay charges, but in this instance, unless of course we take out a warrant,
44:45 we issue a summons.
44:48 But police officers would only arrest persons for summary offenses
44:56 only when those offenses are committed within your view.
44:59 Okay.
45:00 Or in the exceptional circumstance when we have a recent commission of offense and that kind of stuff.
45:06 In relation to the music in the bars, there are some bars that have license, of course,
45:14 that would allow them to play that type of music.
45:17 At a certain level?
45:18 Yeah, not everywhere.
45:20 And even when you have permission to play music from your bar or you have a party or an event,
45:28 the music must be at a certain amount of decibels.
45:30 I can't exactly remember the amount of decibels right now.
45:32 It will fall on EMA.
45:34 EMA has the authority to monitor.
45:36 So for carnival and stuff, you'll find EMA very, very active, as in the police officers,
45:41 who has a responsibility to go from event to event and monitor the amount of decibels.
45:45 And you'll be fine if you exceed?
45:47 They'll warn you first.
45:48 Okay.
45:49 They'll warn you to drop the decibel levels to its lawful amounts.
45:53 And, of course, if you fail to do so, you can be fined.
45:57 The EMA also has devices that they can measure the decibel levels.
46:02 I've said before on this program that he who alleges must prove.
46:06 And, of course, if we are alleging that you're having an event and your event is beyond the decibel level,
46:11 our evidence before a court would be some scientific data to present to the court that on this day
46:18 and at this time, this device would have measured the decibel level by constable X or constable Y
46:24 in the presence of constable so-and-so.
46:26 And, of course, these are the findings.
46:28 And, of course, the court would accept that scientific data.
46:32 The summary offense is slightly different when we have to present that evidence before the court.
46:42 That noise or that level of noise has to be to the annoyance of persons.
46:52 And as law enforcement, we have to be able to prove that.
46:55 It's not a straightforward case as you would have suggested.
46:58 And I also want to make the point, I am aware and I'm certain that many of my colleagues are also aware,
47:07 a number of persons would have gone before the court for similar offenses.
47:11 So stand assured that the police officers are actually making detections when these offenses are concerned.
47:17 It's not a serious crime.
47:20 So probably that's one of the reasons why it doesn't make the front page.
47:24 Yes.
47:25 Now, a couple of questions.
47:27 When it comes to arrival and customs and the TTPS working with customs,
47:31 I want to show a clip here where persons not speaking the truth when asked when you come in with your luggage
47:39 and then when items are found, this is what happens.
47:42 This did not happen in Trinidad and Tobago, by the way.
47:45 Is that your bags over here?
47:46 Yes.
47:47 You packed everything yourselves?
47:48 Yes.
47:49 Everything belongs to you?
47:50 Yes.
47:51 All right.
47:52 And all of them out there are new purchases that you're bringing back into the country right now?
47:55 Only clothes.
47:57 Okay. Just clothes you're bringing back?
47:58 Yes.
47:59 Okay.
48:00 Let me look at them.
48:03 Those are your clothes to me.
48:05 What's this?
48:06 That's my jewelry.
48:08 It's new?
48:09 Ma'am, these have tags on them.
48:11 They're not used.
48:12 No.
48:13 These are new.
48:14 Not that one.
48:15 Listen, I asked you guys if you had anything.
48:17 Besides clothes, that's all you told me, clothes.
48:20 Jewelry we have.
48:22 No. It's too late now.
48:23 You failed to declare when I gave you the opportunity to do so.
48:27 So you basically lied is what you did.
48:30 You lied and you're trying to bring in this stuff here without paying tax to the U.S. government.
48:35 And that's a big deal.
48:37 You understand?
48:38 What's the approximate value for this gold jewelry that you're bringing back?
48:41 Around $2,000 per piece.
48:43 Right now we're going to seize these for failure to declare.
48:47 Okay.
48:48 You're going to pay a penalty.
48:50 So we got one, two, three, four pairs of earrings.
48:52 And then we have the four items here, four necklaces.
48:55 And these bad boys are about what?
48:57 22 carats, baby.
48:58 It was somewhere around $14,000 spent in India on gold jewelry that they failed to declare.
49:05 $798 times.
49:07 $2,400 penalty for something they would have owed a few hundred for.
49:11 It's not worth it.
49:12 Honesty is the best policy.
49:16 All right.
49:17 So we are back with that.
49:19 And we have seen situations where persons don't declare certain items, especially when we enter into a country.
49:29 Now there are different rules and laws when you enter into any country.
49:33 And many times we don't really take it on because I travel often because I'm always back and forth to the United States.
49:40 I'm not saying me, I'm just saying for persons who travel often.
49:43 And we don't pay attention to these little details because the same way where in many countries you cannot travel with a certain amount of money on you and don't declare it.
49:53 Same applies here.
49:54 Exactly.
49:55 And you know when it comes to tax.
49:58 Yeah, correct.
49:59 Try to view the tax.
50:00 It's a huge problem.
50:02 And we saw what happened here.
50:03 Where does TTPS enter the situation here when these cases happen?
50:10 For the most part, the customs officers, we often use the term law enforcement.
50:17 Law enforcement is not just police officers on their own.
50:21 So customs officers have some authority as it relates to also preferring charges against persons who may breach of the Customs Act, as an example.
50:33 There are items that are considered to be prohibited and there are also requirements upon you as someone who is importing things into the country.
50:44 And of course it's important to understand your do's and don'ts as it relates to your importation, as it relates to what you can enter the country with.
50:53 Because it may be legal to carry.
50:57 Let me give you an example of someone who has a firearm.
51:01 You may come from a jurisdiction that it's permissible to have a firearm with a license and you leave your country to enter ours.
51:16 It doesn't mean of course that you have the same permissions here because you're not a firearm holder, although the firearm is licensed in your country.
51:23 So that you can be charged for the possession of the firearm, provided of course you did not declare it.
51:29 And that's just one example.
51:31 Of course we know the issue of camouflage, the issue of scotch bombs as examples.
51:36 And the list goes on in terms of what are considered to be prohibited items.
51:40 I'm not a customs officer.
51:42 Entering into the country.
51:44 So be mindful of those things and of course it's always important to be truthful.
51:49 I know that persons quite often as you would have understood a short while ago, find ways to be ingenious to not pay the charges or the fees as they should.
52:01 And sometimes that might turn out to be worse than what you want.
52:05 Like what we saw happening today.
52:07 We take a break and when we come back we will wrap things up.
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53:09 [Music]
53:15 And we are back.
53:20 Now before we wrap things up, we just want to make things very clear when it comes to the noise pollution.
53:26 And what may happen if, let's say I call the police and let them know there's a neighbor who is playing loud obscene music.
53:34 And it's we always maybe in the morning or late at night and I call the station.
53:39 What is the next step the police will take moving forward when I make that call?
53:44 First thing as police officers, we spoke about responsiveness over the period of my stay here with you.
53:50 And as law enforcement, we also want to respond to every single report.
53:55 Because what would start off as a very simple thing may very well turn out to be something far greater.
54:01 So the police officers are charged with the responsibility of visiting that particular scene to ensure that there's no foot at reach of the piece.
54:08 And of course where we can intervene and settle, we would intervene and settle.
54:14 I would have mentioned a short while ago that depending on the, what is happening,
54:22 there may be need for the EMA police officers, a separate body of police officers to come with their devices
54:30 and those persons who are trained specifically to treat with those instances of loud music to issue the requisite warnings and possibly issue the requisite charges.
54:42 As residents yourself, you also have a power. Because every time a bar or some other license comes up for renewal,
54:56 police officers has to conduct investigations and one of the things that they would do,
55:02 they would investigate, sorry, they would communicate with those persons who live in the immediate vicinity.
55:08 And if of course you object or you petition the court to have the license revoked,
55:15 then the court may very well bear in mind the considerations of the residents and of course the complaints of the residents
55:23 and of course the conduct of the license holder and the license could very well be revoked as well.
55:29 So it's not just a matter of the police full stop, but as residents or afflicted persons, you also have a right.
55:36 On another note, I was just reminded a short while ago from one of my colleagues,
55:41 I use the word marijuana more than once and for clarity, when we refer to marijuana in the court subject, it's called cannabis.
55:52 So that's just for clarity. Thank you.
55:55 Okay, just to be very clear.
55:56 Just to be very clear.
55:57 Now, I wanted to put this out there because I saw a video with a gentleman who tried to assist someone who was laying in the middle of the road.
56:09 Saw the person, drove past, right, and decided, you know what, let me pull up and see what's going on with this person to make sure they're okay.
56:20 And in turn, the person jumps up and runs past the person who's trying to assist into the person's vehicle.
56:30 And they had, of course, a scuffle.
56:32 Long story short, the perpetrator, he is in the hospital, but he went, of course, to the police station to give the report and everything like that.
56:40 When situations like this comes around for some of us, not many, what should we do?
56:46 Because I think you will watch someone laying there and not just drive past.
56:50 Even watching a dog dying is painful.
56:53 Yeah.
56:55 We always encourage persons to weigh each circumstance on its own merit.
57:01 And I'm almost certain that the person who would have been a victim of that circumstance, if ever he was to engage something similar,
57:09 he would be a bit more strained in terms of rendering that type of aid and that type of assistance.
57:15 Once upon a time, we had persons who would have stopped or decided they wouldn't give persons a job from point A to point B.
57:23 In today's world, we tend to advise the motoring public to refrain from such activity,
57:31 because you continue to endanger yourself and you continue to put yourself in harm's way or possibly a victim of some form of crime.
57:41 So the human thing is to assist members of the public.
57:47 If you are involved in a road traffic accident, as an example, you are required by law to render aid to that person.
57:54 So in that instance, it's a statutory requirement.
57:58 In other instances, it's the humane thing to do.
58:01 So that we can't allow one incident on its own to cause us to say, "That's it. I'm finished. I'm not helping."
58:10 Anyone else in society. But of course, even as we help, we have to keep our guards up.
58:15 Thank you for that so much, of course, Acting ASP Steve McKenzie with us this week.
58:20 We thank you so much. And of course, to the viewing public for always tuning in, we appreciate you.
58:25 Just have a safe and enjoyable weekend.
58:27 Remember, next week we'll be discussing school violence for that week.
58:31 And we have news coming up next at 7.
58:33 God bless T&T and have a blessed one.
58:35 [Music]
58:41 [MUSIC PLAYING]
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