- 3 years ago
Dutchman Sjoerd Marijne talks about his journey in India hockey in this exclusive interview with Outlook. Marijne spent most of his time in India with the women's team. Indian women reached the semifinal of an Olympics for the first time in Tokyo 2020 and ultimately finished fourth, losing a tight match against Great Britain in the bronze medal game. Sjoerd Marijne has ended his contract with Hockey India but has left a women's team that can only getter better from here. (Photos: Agencies, Hockey India)
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00:00 I would like you to reflect on coming to India, your stint with Holland, a country which is
00:17 very close to my heart for obvious reasons, you know why?
00:20 And my daughter lives one station away from your house.
00:23 And you said that Netherlands are different from India.
00:28 So can you please elaborate how on the basis of your journey here?
00:32 I mean, this long four-year journey that you've had.
00:35 Like, as you know, I'm writing a book about my journey.
00:39 So that already took me one year.
00:42 So just explaining everything now will be almost impossible, but I will try to handle
00:50 four and a half years when I arrived here in India.
00:53 You started with, okay, what kind of situation is it with the girls?
00:59 How are they?
01:00 What is their level?
01:01 And I saw them in the Germany matches, the World Cup juniors.
01:05 And I knew from my friend, Raul Ira, how they played because they lost the semifinal
01:09 to the Netherlands, but actually they played better.
01:12 So from that moment, I knew this team would be good in the future.
01:15 Because if you see this history, under 21 teams who are performing well at the junior
01:20 World Cups, they are also doing well at the end, years later.
01:25 You saw it with the Argentina men, you saw it with the Belgium men.
01:29 They all won big things in the youth and then they were successful at the seniors.
01:34 So that was for me, one of the reasons to start with these girls.
01:37 And I started in Bhopal and yeah, what I saw like girls, the fitness was not good enough.
01:45 And yeah, the hockey tactics, they were not able to play more system, the mindset.
01:52 It's like, okay, we lost the match with 1-0 or we are 1-0 down and we already lost the
01:57 match.
01:58 So I started thinking about, okay, what way can I change this?
02:02 And can I create a high performance culture?
02:06 That was a long process.
02:07 It's not like, okay, you do three things different than it's done.
02:10 It's really small steps and it's not something what I'm doing myself.
02:13 And one of the things I see in Indians is the love of the country.
02:18 It's totally different than in the Netherlands.
02:20 We are really down to earth and like, don't do crazy.
02:26 And in India, it's like everything or nothing.
02:28 When you don't win, it's nothing.
02:30 But if you are successful, it's everything.
02:33 And that is one of the things like, especially in the last weeks.
02:38 Now I have experienced on another way than the whole four and a half years.
02:42 What was quite overwhelming at the moment.
02:45 I don't know what's happening, what the people sent me messages from their hearts and what
02:51 the girls did for the country.
02:53 And I'm like, yeah, what I saw in the beginning, I also see now the love of the country and
02:59 how much beautiful things the girls did for the team, for the country.
03:03 I think Tokyo 2020 was a clear example of what the team did and what you did.
03:09 In fact, down three matches, first three matches, this massive turnaround.
03:15 What went on in the team?
03:16 Of course, we've asked you this question before, but if you can more elaborately say, I mean,
03:21 losing the first match to Holland, which was more or less expected, but then losing again,
03:25 second match, third match, you were angry for sure.
03:28 But obviously, anger doesn't help you to kind of cement the team's morale.
03:33 So what exactly did you do?
03:34 Of course, you were angry at the ground, but when you go back to the camp, you're not angry.
03:38 You obviously try to get the team together and make sure that there is enough.
03:42 I remember you told me that the tournament does not end with a loss to Holland.
03:48 It's a long term.
03:51 I agree.
03:52 Now, what happened more or less, I was quite happy with the match against Netherlands because
03:56 yeah, like the first half we did really well.
03:59 We must not forget the girls didn't play for two years matches with pressure.
04:05 The qualifiers were the last matches.
04:08 And so I knew this could happen.
04:09 I was a little bit disappointed that the score was that high because I thought it was not
04:13 necessary against Netherlands.
04:15 But yeah, the last time they played Netherlands was I was a coach from Netherlands.
04:18 It was 7-0.
04:19 So I was more watching, OK, how is the quality?
04:22 And I did the same with Germany.
04:25 But then after that, we played GB and for me, GB was especially that match a country
04:29 we really could beat.
04:31 And that I knew if we get one point at least there, it would make us our lives easier in
04:36 the next following matches.
04:38 But I didn't.
04:39 So I saw a lot of stupid things in that match about the face mask after a PC defensive throwing
04:45 away and PC defensive was still not finished.
04:48 They got easy goals.
04:50 And I knew there had to be something done about this behavior because I'm always coaching
04:59 on behavior.
05:00 And it was just they took it too light.
05:02 And I knew Ireland is coming in South Africa.
05:05 So something had to happen.
05:06 I was really angry in the village at the girls.
05:10 And I really gave it to them because they were throwing away chances.
05:14 And like afterwards, you can't change anything.
05:17 And on that moment, I felt like, OK, the only thing I can do is change now something.
05:22 And that's what we what the girls did.
05:23 They really stood up and we played a really, really good match against Ireland.
05:28 And we knew in the tournament we had spoke about this.
05:31 Listen, it is possible that you're losing the first matches, but still we are in the
05:35 tournament.
05:36 And I kept saying to the girls, we are in the tournament.
05:38 We are in the tournament.
05:40 And of course, it was really exciting.
05:42 And again, South Africa, it was not our best match.
05:45 We scored a lot.
05:47 But you saw the nerves all about, we need to win.
05:50 And this is the whole thing to deal with pressure.
05:54 And that is something what the girls can make the next step.
05:56 And then, yeah, of course, you play the quarterfinals.
05:59 And the main thing for us was the pressures with Australia.
06:02 And these matches are not nice for the higher ranked teams.
06:06 And I knew that.
06:07 And that's why we could play freely.
06:10 If this team always can play freely, they can they can match with everyone.
06:15 Sometimes the other one wins.
06:16 Sometimes India wins.
06:17 And that is how the strategy was.
06:19 And it was also in the last two matches.
06:21 GB had to win.
06:22 Argentina had to win.
06:23 We were pretty close.
06:24 And I think at the end as coach, I'm watching, OK, did we reach our potential?
06:29 Did we, were we outclassed or not?
06:33 And I don't think so.
06:34 It was very close and small minor mistakes or have not making your own opportunities.
06:42 And that's why I don't, I think we don't have a bronze or we are not in the final.
06:46 But at the end, I think we reached our potential.
06:49 Absolutely.
06:50 In fact, what would the girls do you think would have done internally themselves?
06:55 Because you see, they come from diverse cultures, different backgrounds.
06:59 They speak a language which you may not be able to understand.
07:03 And what do you think Rani would have done as a captain to motivate the team?
07:08 Yeah, she's doing a lot to motivate the team.
07:11 You have to, this team has a lot of ownership.
07:14 After my meetings, there is also meetings with the team themselves without coaches.
07:18 So what she's saying is more or less the same thing I'm saying.
07:22 And she's repeating and but in Hindi, of course, and that everybody understands.
07:27 So on that way, and she gets support from other girls like Savita, who's doing a very
07:33 good job.
07:34 And on that way, they try to motivate the team and also like, OK, girls, relax.
07:39 And that is what something they have learned.
07:42 Keep focusing on your own task and don't focus on what happens after this.
07:47 What if this and you always want to stay away from what if.
07:52 I mean, you taught them to live in the moment.
07:55 I mean, you showed them a movie and obviously whatever that movie was.
08:00 But there's something about movies and Indian hockey.
08:03 It's nice.
08:04 It's the only thing I can say about this movie is it's not an Indian movie, but it really
08:10 helped them to see and understand the way what it is to stay in the moment and to be
08:17 in the moment.
08:18 And that's what they need to learn, because then you can only play free with a free mind.
08:25 And that is what you want.
08:26 You all everybody remembers like when you don't remember anymore how you did it.
08:31 It's more or less then you play with a free mind.
08:34 You know, obviously, when we spoke last during the press conference, the girls were absolutely
08:41 heartbroken.
08:42 They took time and Yannick said that, you know, when you try so hard, it takes more
08:47 time to recover.
08:48 So do you think that's a advertisement for their commitment?
08:57 Everybody cries, everybody.
08:58 I've seen the men cry.
08:59 I've seen the biggest teams cry.
09:02 I've seen Australians cry.
09:03 But what was so special about those teardrops from the Indian girls?
09:10 The special thing is that they felt that we really could get that medal, that they were
09:15 believing in something really, really big.
09:18 What nobody thought was the woman will be able to achieve.
09:24 And like if you go to a tournament, like it's fine to be number six or to number eight.
09:30 You're not disappointed.
09:31 But these girls really believed in the dream we had.
09:35 And I think that made those tears special.
09:37 The dream, as you said, that it was not only the team's dream, it was the coaches' dream
09:42 as well.
09:43 So in 2017, you came, you obviously had a dream.
09:47 Yeah, yeah.
09:48 I like to dream.
09:49 And it was my dream to play the Olympics for a medal and go home with a medal.
09:57 But my dream was even bigger to inspire the nation.
10:02 And that is something what happened.
10:04 And that's why at the moment I'm overwhelmed with what happens and the reactions of the
10:09 people that people sent me messages like, I watched with my daughter, we were both emotional.
10:16 She's now buying a hockey stick.
10:19 She now also believes everything can happen.
10:21 I think like there's nothing bigger that you can achieve.
10:28 And we always said, listen, we want to improve the position of a woman.
10:32 We want to inspire young girls.
10:35 And the way you're doing that is if you are winning medals, you can achieve this goal.
10:42 So it's another way around.
10:44 It's not, okay, we are going for that medal.
10:47 No, we're going for something bigger.
10:49 We're going for legacy.
10:51 And that is the biggest thing you can achieve, in my opinion.
10:56 And the legacy you create by winning things.
10:59 But now what happens in India is we created legacy without winning that bronze medal.
11:05 I think that's very special.
11:06 A lot of people say that there is more happiness in winning a bronze than a silver.
11:12 You agree?
11:13 Yes, because you win your last match.
11:15 Yes.
11:16 Is the pressure more?
11:17 Yes, it's your last opportunity.
11:19 And if you have silver, you know, at least you have silver, but you also feel like, okay,
11:27 we were really close to the gold.
11:28 And that is the biggest thing, of course.
11:30 It also depends on where you come from.
11:33 Like us, if we are number 10 and we are in the final, I think that the girls already
11:38 will be very happy with silver.
11:40 And now it was everything to give for the bronze.
11:43 And that's what makes me proud.
11:44 We fought.
11:45 We really had a good fight until the last moment.
11:48 And when you're 2-0 down in that match with the circumstances we were in, and then coming
11:53 back to 3-2, I think that says a lot about the new fighting spirit of the girls.
12:01 Something you saw was missing when you stepped in, in 2017.
12:06 Yes.
12:07 Yeah.
12:08 But, you know, obviously, you know, coming to this stage, you said in your last chat,
12:14 you said that India needed to do much more.
12:16 You mentioned the theory of equality where the women should be treated as par with men,
12:22 tournaments, exposure trips and all the facilities.
12:26 These are extremely good points, but again, you may also mention about gender equality.
12:32 This is one thing that's missing in India.
12:34 Do you agree?
12:35 I'm not talking about sports.
12:37 Yeah.
12:38 That's fair.
12:39 Yeah.
12:40 I understand what you mean.
12:41 I'm not too much informed in all the things what happens in India.
12:46 Of course, I'm really focused on the team.
12:49 I see what's happening, what you just mentioned with all the things with the pro league, with
12:54 organizing the World Cups and tournaments in India, the Hockey India League.
13:00 On these things, I can say something, but the other things for me, very difficult.
13:04 I don't know.
13:05 Talk about what I just said.
13:08 Those things, I think it's important for the girls to, they now have shown they are with
13:12 the best four countries of the world and now making next steps is not about more tours.
13:18 Listen, the tours like Sai always did for us, Hockey India organized very well.
13:22 They never said no.
13:26 Whatever we asked, it happened.
13:28 So I'm very grateful for that.
13:30 And this is not criticism.
13:32 It's just like, if you want to make the next step with the woman, then you need to have
13:37 the tournaments and the Hockey Pro League.
13:40 If you see with the men, of course, I was also involved in that process and more cautious.
13:46 The thing is, their process is already longer.
13:49 They came here to the tournament as number four of the world.
13:52 They already had the World Cup.
13:53 They had a quarterfinal they lost at the World Cup.
13:55 So they know how it feels.
13:57 They have pro league, it's every time playing under pressure and then making the right choices.
14:02 And I think the step the men made is like making the good choices under pressure because
14:09 in the past that went wrong.
14:11 And the only way they improved that because of those events are organized.
14:17 And I think that is a big advantage for them.
14:21 And I hope it same will now happen for the women.
14:24 Do the girls thought that they're going to miss you?
14:29 Yes.
14:30 I had Jessica, one emotional girl about this, but they also understand my reason.
14:39 Yes, but it's more personal.
14:41 That's exactly where I'm coming.
14:43 You made a lot of sacrifices.
14:44 The girls made a lot of sacrifices.
14:47 One girl, Vandana Kattariya did not go home when her father died.
14:51 What do you have to say?
14:52 These stories will always be in my heart and I will cherish the stories.
14:56 And I mean, I know where they come from, how hard they have worked for it.
15:01 And that's why I'm so happy that the people of India embrace them, are proud of them.
15:09 And I saw them today again, of course, and they're already feeling better because they
15:14 see now what's going on in India and they felt like, okay, we wrote history and I'm
15:21 proud to be part of that.
15:23 And that we have shown and the girls have shown that it's possible and that you can
15:29 dream.
15:30 But sure, you're going to miss all the celebrations in India.
15:34 Yes.
15:35 Yes.
15:36 I know.
15:37 And I hope people understand and respect that.
15:41 I have now again, been three and a half months away from the family.
15:45 I have my youngest one is 10 years old.
15:47 I have a daughter of 15.
15:48 My son is just out of the house of 18 and my son is 20 and my wife and I miss them very
15:55 much and I'm a family man and I always have managed it because with the tours before the
16:00 COVID we were four weeks, six weeks, we were away then two weeks home and it was always
16:05 possible.
16:06 But the last year and a half were mentally very tough for me personal.
16:11 And I tried never to show it to the girls because I have to give the example.
16:16 But yeah, there's a moment I'm also like, I now need to go to them.
16:21 You're a human being at the end of the day.
16:24 Yes.
16:25 But you also made a lot of sacrifices.
16:27 There was a time when you came back from the airport.
16:30 Why did you do that?
16:31 I didn't know if I could return and on that moment, still the Olympics 2020 last year
16:36 would go on.
16:38 And because I was in a taxi and I called with my wife and I had to make a decision.
16:41 She says, you should stay, stay, stay.
16:43 Because if you're in the Netherlands and you can't go home, you can't do the preparation
16:46 of the Olympics.
16:47 And yeah, and then your dream goes away.
16:50 It's done and all the work you did for this.
16:52 So then we both decided to turn around and I went back and after four and a half months
16:59 I saw them again.
17:01 And yeah, so that was my personal sacrifice, but I had to be with the girls.
17:06 I had to be, I had to support them and I have to bring in positive energy.
17:11 Tokyo, I guess was your first Olympics show or have you been to an Olympics before?
17:17 No, this was my first Olympics.
17:18 And it was an extraordinary Olympics in the fact that you were all cooped up in a bio
17:22 bubble.
17:23 Everybody was wearing a mask, no basic interaction, which is unlike an Olympics in a village where
17:28 you, you know, so you think that what lessons will, can one learn from such atmosphere where
17:34 you're cooped up, bio bubbles, massive restrictions in interaction with people.
17:40 In fact, Graham Reid said that, you know, Olympics are also a distraction because you
17:44 get to see so many people, you talk to so many people, you lose focus.
17:48 Do you think the Olympic, the atmosphere in the village helped?
17:52 Yes.
17:54 Like first of all, for Olympics, the way they have organized, how they have adjusted is
18:00 a big compliment and people, I think I'm very happy it went on.
18:07 And the reason is just because it brought so much joy for people just to put the mind
18:12 off of all the concerns about COVID in India, but on the whole world.
18:18 For us, I think playing without crowds, yeah, Indians are everywhere and we always have
18:25 big fans.
18:26 So I think it would have helped us if there would be fans, but we already said really
18:31 fast, we only focus on what we can control and it's the way it is.
18:35 And we felt in the village like normal, yes, with face mask, but it was like, yeah, you
18:41 could speak with people only with face mask and we were already happy to be here.
18:46 And I think the moment you realize this and you're not thinking about how it could be,
18:54 how it could be, then yeah, you're not distracted and you're happy what you have.
19:00 And I think that is one of the lessons we all have learned in the COVID situation.
19:04 Yeah, be happy what you have.
19:08 You went to Tokyo without almost five months, no practice matches.
19:11 And that was one of your concerns when you went there.
19:14 I think I believe you played one practice match in Tokyo or you didn't?
19:19 Yeah, we played one time, three minutes, 12 minutes against Argentina.
19:23 Yes.
19:24 So do you think there were impediments in the process or they were fine?
19:28 I mean, everybody, every team went through this process.
19:32 No, not everything.
19:35 Like all the European teams, we were, besides South Africa, they had the same, but all the
19:40 other teams in our pool, they all had the European Cup.
19:43 So they had a big advantage.
19:45 They had a big advantage.
19:47 And yeah, and this is also something that it all has to do with the mindset.
19:51 If you're making, if I'm going to raise my concerns about this, the girls will also get
19:57 doubts about their confidence.
19:59 So I never spoke about this and we just, you know, I'm busy.
20:03 What can we control?
20:04 And we were happy with that one practice match.
20:06 And we used the match from that last from Germany just to improve.
20:10 And that's how we did the whole tournament.
20:12 Okay.
20:13 What can we improve from the previous match?
20:14 Like the last match against GB, we watched the match back from the first match against
20:19 GB and we just said, okay, what can we do better from this match?
20:22 And that is how you develop your tactics and your game awareness.
20:27 And that's how we did it in the tournament.
20:29 Whenever the camera panned towards the dugout, we always saw Sean Mareen.
20:37 He once showed his forearms.
20:39 I saw he would show his forearms, showing the grit that the teams were.
20:44 But there was somebody more active.
20:45 There was somebody who was more active than you, which was Yannick Schotman.
20:49 How important was that?
20:51 Yeah, extremely important.
20:54 I see as an equal for me, not the assistant.
20:58 She has a lot of experience as a player.
21:01 She puts a lot of energy in the individual process with the girls, watching clips, having
21:06 talks.
21:07 And as a woman, it's easier sometimes for girls to go to her than to me.
21:13 And still, like the way it works in India, I'm still the head coach.
21:17 There's always distance between me and the players.
21:19 And the distance is because I make the decisions.
21:23 And then sometimes when the girls are sad or they feel emotional, they go to Yannick.
21:27 And besides that, she has a lot of knowledge about the game.
21:33 We are a good match, I feel.
21:36 And we are honest to each other.
21:38 She is very honest.
21:40 And I think that is something that also works.
21:42 If you have an assistant who always says yes, yes, yes, it doesn't work.
21:46 She also says, no, no, no, I don't agree with you.
21:49 And that makes me think.
21:52 And I'm thinking, OK, maybe she's right.
21:54 Maybe I'm not.
21:55 I'm right.
21:56 It doesn't matter.
21:57 We understand that we have one plan.
21:59 So yeah, when she arrived, she said, OK, can I say a few things, what I think we have to
22:05 improve?
22:06 I said, yeah, please go ahead.
22:07 So I gave her a lot of freedom because if I don't do that, why would I ask her?
22:14 And she did it really, really well.
22:17 Did you get her?
22:18 When did you contact her?
22:20 Yeah, yeah.
22:21 I contacted her and she came in January 2020, just before the New Zealand tour.
22:27 And I called her and we just played the qualifiers.
22:30 And I said, we're listening on.
22:31 I have a strange question, but do you want to be my assistant?
22:35 And she said, I don't want to be from everyone's assistant, but from you, I want.
22:39 And she was directly really clear.
22:43 Yes, I want.
22:46 And I spoke also to some others.
22:47 And it was yes.
22:48 And but how is this going?
22:50 And she was like, bam, I want to.
22:51 And she really cares about the girls.
22:56 And that's what I needed.
22:58 And I think that made a huge difference.
23:02 You coached the men's team for some time.
23:06 What were the differences between a men's team and an Indian women's team?
23:10 There are always differences between men and women, like normal, like in life.
23:16 One of the differences with the men is that, now let's say the women are, they follow their
23:24 coach easier.
23:27 And if I say left, we go left.
23:29 And the men say, okay, we go left.
23:32 But we also want to know why and not, and if you can say no, no, I'm going to go right.
23:38 But I'm not telling you.
23:39 And I'm not here to say negative things about the men because the men, they also take, they
23:45 take initiative more than the woman did in the beginning.
23:49 Now the woman really take initiative.
23:51 So it's just our differences.
23:54 And when anytime, when I speak about the difference between men and women, people always feel
23:58 like one is better than the other, but that's not true.
24:01 It's just differences between the men and the women.
24:04 And I enjoy the time with the men very much also.
24:07 They have a lot of humor, a lot of fun in the team and making jokes.
24:12 I also like that.
24:15 And I'm also very happy for them.
24:17 I also saw the process and happy for Graeme that he also had the bronze.
24:22 The good things happening for in general, in hockey for India.
24:26 And did the boys come and support the girls during that match?
24:30 They said they would.
24:33 Yes, they did.
24:34 A few of them, a lot of them, they posted very good tweets on social media.
24:41 And that says a lot that says about that connection between the teams are growing and it's not
24:47 just like the men anymore and the men appreciate the woman, but also the other way around.
24:52 The woman also, when they get the bronze, the girls went down and wait for them and
24:58 celebrate with them and congratulate them.
25:01 So it works on both sides and yeah, what you give you get.
25:06 So this hockey revolution that has happened in Tokyo, do you think it will make India
25:15 a more sportingly aware country and not just cricket?
25:20 I think so.
25:21 It opened people's eyes and now it's very, yeah, you now have to be very wise and smart.
25:31 What are the next steps?
25:32 How can we have more benefits from this as hockey in India?
25:37 But I think it's not only hockey.
25:40 I think it's in general, how much joy and happiness and pride sports can bring to the
25:49 people and like Neeraj is that he won the gold.
25:55 It makes people cry.
25:56 And I think that is the beauty of sports.
25:58 I see it more bigger than only hockey.
26:02 That's a very good answer.
26:03 I mean, Neeraj winning a gold on the last day of the Indian competition is perhaps one
26:08 of the most significant gold medals we've ever won perhaps.
26:12 What do you think?
26:13 Yeah, we just celebrate with everyone his gold medal and a lot of respect to everyone,
26:21 to each other.
26:22 And that are beautiful moments.
26:26 Yeah, these things are really great and important.
26:33 And now it's really important India keeps building on this and creating a high performance
26:39 sports culture that in the future more and more things can happen like this.
26:46 [Music]
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