Standing in front of the Capitol Hill, on September 2025, Marina Lacerda broke her silence publicly for the first time about her sexual abuse at the hands of Jeffrey Epstein. “After all these years, I was free,” she said. Lacerda, also identified as “Minor Victim 1” in the 2019 federal investigation against Epstein, was only 14 years old when she was recruited by him in 2002. was amongst many women who were sexually abused by Epstein when they were minors. Epstein was an American financier who sexually abused and exploited underage girls.This is not just a story about one man’s crimes. It is about the systems that enabled him. It is about the long shadow of trauma. And it is about what it means for a survivor to stand in front of the nation’s seat of power and say: I will not be silent anymore.
In this deeply moving and urgent conversation with Mrinalini Dhyani, Marina Lacerda shares her journey — from abuse to testimony, from fear to freedom.
Viewer discretion advised.
About Outlook Magazine
Outlook Magazine brings sharp, independent journalism to the conversations shaping India and the world. From politics and culture to society, media, and ideas, Outlook goes beyond headlines to unpack context, challenge power, and question dominant narratives.
On this channel, Outlook Magazine Explains breaking news, emerging debates, and cultural shifts through opinion-led explainers, reported analysis, and thoughtful storytelling. Our videos cut through noise and misinformation to examine how language, ideology, and politics shape everyday life—online and offline.
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In this deeply moving and urgent conversation with Mrinalini Dhyani, Marina Lacerda shares her journey — from abuse to testimony, from fear to freedom.
Viewer discretion advised.
About Outlook Magazine
Outlook Magazine brings sharp, independent journalism to the conversations shaping India and the world. From politics and culture to society, media, and ideas, Outlook goes beyond headlines to unpack context, challenge power, and question dominant narratives.
On this channel, Outlook Magazine Explains breaking news, emerging debates, and cultural shifts through opinion-led explainers, reported analysis, and thoughtful storytelling. Our videos cut through noise and misinformation to examine how language, ideology, and politics shape everyday life—online and offline.
Subscribe to Outlook Magazine for credible journalism, critical perspectives, and conversations that matter.
#OutlookMagazine #DeepDiveWithOutlook #OutlookExplains #OutlookOpinion #OutlookIndia #Outlook #IndiaNews
Follow us:
Website: https://www.outlookindia.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Outlookindia
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/outlookindia/
X: https://twitter.com/Outlookindia
Whatsapp: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VaNrF3v0AgWLA6OnJH0R
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NewsTranscript
00:00you know a lot of other people may have they see justice in a different way i see it as
00:05this
00:06person's gone he will never hurt a child ever ever again and will never abuse his power he
00:12is no longer with us so i think like that is the biggest justice here
00:22what are you doing these days uh i mean what are you like in terms of your work and everything
00:27what are you doing right now you know i'm very honored and very happy to say thank you for
00:32having me here first of all this means a lot to me to share my story and share my voice
00:37with everyone around the world not only americans um and fortunately you know for myself i had a
00:45restaurant it didn't work out so i no longer have that business and after that it was very hard for
00:51me to kind of go off and uh figure out what i wanted to do in life i really have
00:56a passion for
00:58animals and i was like well you know i want to start an organization and start helping out animals
01:03but then i broke my silence in september and a new road has come my way and a whole different
01:10you know life has now um it's now what i do i advocate for women i speak on behalf of
01:19women who
01:20have been abused and had trauma in their lives and i always encourage women to amplify their voice
01:25and never stop so this is my job now i don't get paid for it but this is what i
01:30do so i am um you know
01:33here to represent women all over the world who have been through a very traumatic and a very uh also
01:42uh well now we like to call it a brave time right because now they have been through that and
01:48now
01:48we're on the other side so that's what i advocate for and obviously a stay-at-home mom and that's
01:54um
01:55that's what i do you came out very recently in the last year only as if i'm not wrong right
02:01how does it
02:02feel if i could ask you in one word how does it feel like coming out after all these years
02:07you know i
02:08didn't think i was ever going to speak about my story ever ever ever but in september my lawyers came
02:14up to me and said hey how do you feel about breaking your silence in the capital and i said
02:19ah i don't know that seems a little bit intimidating and he you know they explained to me hey listen
02:25this
02:25could be a really big opportunity for other women to step forward about their abuse with epstein and it
02:32also would mean a lot to just women and men all over the world to also create the courage and
02:39empower
02:40them to speak and not to stay silent and literally two days before washington uh when everybody else
02:46was leaving the other survivors i turned around to my lawyers and i really thought to myself you know
02:51i've been listening to everybody and this was the biggest problem everybody was like wow you're you're
02:57going to speak in front of the whole world wow i mean that's too much and everyone just you know
03:02different opinions which kind of fogged what i really wanted to do so i created the courage to
03:10think for myself and for other people and start living for what i wanted to do and after i broke
03:17my
03:17silence it was really um the best thing that could have ever happened to me it was like i was
03:24like free
03:24you know congratulations and hats off to you and your strength the women that we saw that day on the
03:31press conference that's actually what strength and power looks like right i also want to like uh
03:37see how i think you met a lot of survivors that day also right how did that feel like how
03:43did that
03:44i would say allyship and how did that uh strength felt like when you you were there with all of
03:51these
03:51other survivors who went through the same thing as you if you could tell us about that feeling that day
03:56also
03:56so you know i did meet the survivors at virginia's guffrey um memorial and that was super empowering
04:04that really helped me change my mind because it was before breaking my silence so i got to meet some
04:09of them but as survivors we don't really share each other's stories we just find out our stories
04:14sometimes through different podcasts uh through different platforms right so i don't know every survivor's
04:20story which makes us very unique in our own different ways because we've all have different
04:25um abuses just like other women who have different uh abuse everyone has their own story but being
04:32with the survivors um made me feel almost as i would say comfortable because they had broken their
04:41silence and they are okay and they're liberating after they feel liberating after that so i think it's
04:47also part of our healing process to speak about this because a lot of people um you know they victim
04:55shame us
04:55and they tell us all these horrible things about us so really these women who have been speaking and
05:02those also who have not spoken were there at you know virginia guffrey's and also were at actually at
05:08the capital when i broke my silence they have not broken their silence but speaking to them and somehow
05:14we were connected with different abuses it also empowered me so i gotta say those women who were speaking
05:22and virginia guffrey who was speaking for us gave me so much power and they are heroes just as much
05:29as i think any other woman who has been through abuse and now is on the other side but i
05:35do have to say
05:35before i broke my silence in the capital i did break my silence um and in front of congress uh
05:43you know
05:44and that i think was the most difficult time because it was my first time speaking about my abuse
05:49and you know we have all these you know prominent people in this you know position that you know
05:55have you know different lives than i do and i was just like wow i can't believe i'm speaking in
06:01front
06:01of all these people what will they think so that right away was very shocking to me i couldn't finish
06:07my story thank god for my lawyer who was next to me who helped me out through this whole journey
06:13until today i i thank her all the time for encouraging me to speak so it wasn't really
06:19thought of i think it was just something that i just jumped on and um it was the best decision
06:25that
06:25i did i think thank you so much for doing that for women everywhere i think that's the strength and
06:30the power that inspires us also it doesn't matter which country you're from i think it has given the
06:35strength to me sitting here in india as well so thank you so much for doing that so marina i'll
06:40just
06:40like to take you just a little bit back the conversation might be a little hard and also a
06:45bit repetitive for you i can completely understand can you tell us about the moment when you first
06:50met jeffrey epstein so when i first met jeffrey epstein um i was in a very vulnerable stage of my
06:56life you know and i think people sometimes they don't understand that and you know maybe we can go
07:04back after that but when i did meet jeffrey epstein i was the head of household at 14 years old
07:11and it
07:12was a young girl in my in my group of friends who it was a brazilian i was hanging out
07:18with a lot of
07:19brazilians at the time and she had said to me she said hey i know you're going through a really
07:23tough
07:23time at home and um i know this gentleman who's very rich she's very powerful and he would like to
07:32get
07:32a massage by you and you know by he said by by you and i said wow i said but
07:37um i don't know anything
07:39about you know the massage world you know and she said well he just likes to have a young pretty
07:45girl
07:46with him to give him a massage and really all you have to do is just take off your shirt
07:51it's just like
07:52being a bikini and she made it so okay for me and i want people to understand that i was
07:58abused from
07:58the age of eight till 12 by my stepfather it didn't seem so bad and at the time i just
08:04really
08:04needed to make money i needed to survive my mom was not working i had my younger sister we were
08:11living
08:11in one room on a four-bedroom apartment we had rented all the rooms i had a job at the
08:16time i had
08:18two jobs at the time i was working on the weekend at a catering company and then after school i
08:23was
08:23working a real estate office as a secretary but it just wasn't enough and um you know being an
08:29immigrant not being documented at the time you were getting paid whatever they would want to pay you
08:36they were not paying you what the state of that you know whatever the state requirement was i said to
08:43her you know what let's go it doesn't sound that bad so when we got to jeffrey epstein's house
08:49mansion i should say um you know coming from a story of queens in new york um is it's just
08:56a whole
08:57different world manhattan itself right and then coming into this huge mansion wooden door and walking
09:06into this house where i was so intimidated by coming in having the maid open the door i was like
09:14holy crap
09:14like this guy's got employees in his house you know and we got led into the office where it's his
09:21waiting room where he has all these pictures with all these you know um prominent people there president
09:28trump uh you know our ex-president bill clinton we had some princes there prince andrews and you know
09:36all these other prominent people that i didn't know who who it was at 14 the maid came and got
09:43us and
09:43brought us to the third floor and when you open up the third floor there's a hallway and jeffrey
09:48epstein had all these sketches on his hallway with naked women and they were black and white sketches
09:56and you know i walk in to his massage room where there's a massage table in the middle he had
10:02all
10:02these lotions on his credenza and you know and i was just saying it was like some of it was
10:07victoria's
10:07secret some of it i didn't even know the name because they were so expensive and you know at the
10:12time
10:12victoria's secret was so expensive to me and i was like oh my god like i want one of these
10:17creams you
10:18know that was like my main thing that's how much of a child i was and i i can't forget
10:22also his ceiling
10:24had these clouds that i always it just never leaves my mind and i looked at the ceiling i was
10:30like wow
10:30what a place to relax like it's like you know it just you're so wow i'd be so amazed by
10:36it at 14
10:38and he walks into the room he introduced himself he said hi i'm jeffrey and i said hi i'm marina
10:44and he said i heard some great things about you and he laid down he asked me a whole bunch
10:51of things
10:51about myself and the young girl was with me and we were massaging him and everything was great and at
10:57the time i was like wow i can't believe like i'm just massaging somebody without a license without a
11:02masseuse license and things did not go the way that she said it would he then proceeded to turn he
11:11turned around after a little while and he got on the phone and he hung up the phone and then
11:16he turned
11:17around and he was now naked and i was like a little bit in shock and confused and he had
11:23asked me to take
11:24off my shirt and i was very much i'm sorry he had asked me to take off my bra and
11:31i looked over at
11:32my friend kind of confused as in like this is not part of what you said and i just stood
11:39there and shook
11:39my head no because i was really paralyzed i was frozen because i did not expect it and already coming
11:47from a place where i had been sexually abused by myself other than physically abused because i wouldn't
11:53allow him to sexually abuse me i was very scared i was in a mansion with a powerful man in
11:59the third
11:59floor did not know where the stairs were did i know where the where the elevator were there was
12:04nobody in the third floor what was i going to do you know but i just said no and the
12:11girl you know
12:12looked at me like kind of like what like what's your problem you know and then he went to go
12:18touch me
12:18and i just took his hand and i was like i'm not comfortable and the girl says oh marina stop
12:27being
12:27approved like have some fun you know kind of those words and i was like shook my head like no
12:35i'm not
12:35comfortable with it and she came over to my side because we were not on the same side but she
12:42came
12:42over to my side and she moved me over and her and jeffrey epstein went into very uh different types
12:53of sexual acts and it was very aggressive and not that he was aggressive with her i think just the
13:00sexual content of it was very very aggressive it was very shocking to me and um i just stood there
13:06and i was frozen and we were done um he said um well he had said before you know he
13:16had said before
13:17to me he was like uh when she had said oh don't be a prude and he was like it's
13:22okay he was okay with
13:23it he was like it's okay she's going to like me it's going to take some time but she'll get
13:27comfortable
13:28with me and in my head at the time i was like this guy is crazy like i'm never going
13:32to be comfortable
13:32and okay with this so after it was done we put her you know i put my shirt back on
13:38she put on her
13:39clothes and we went downstairs and she's like what's wrong with you like why didn't you just do what he
13:43asked she was upset that i didn't listen to him i didn't obey to what he said and do what
13:49he asked for
13:51and i was like you didn't tell me this was going to be a part of it she was like
13:54oh come on you would
13:55have been fine with it you know you need the money and i said i understand she goes well he's
13:59going to
13:59want to see you again and i said well i'm not going to see him again she goes you will
14:03see him
14:03again and i said i won't and she said you know marina you come from astoria you come from brazil
14:10you came here you have no connections you're not going to meet anybody and she did a little bit of
14:17the grooming herself and we left she gave me three hundred dollars and she called me about a week or
14:25two weeks later and says hey jeffrey's in new york he would like to see you again at the time
14:30my mom
14:31was not working i was going through a very tough situation and i really started to think maybe this
14:37man can help me i have been abused by my stepfather this abuse may not be as bad not thinking
14:44that i was
14:45getting abused it was almost like this is not as bad as what i've been through with my stepfather
14:50and i did go back and when i did go back he slowly grew me it's like i went there
14:57the first when i went
14:58back there the second time he didn't ask for anything he was very nice and then as time went on
15:04it was like my bra came off my pants came off my underwear came off everything started coming off
15:11and next thing you know i was getting by epstein and i had no idea how it even got there
15:17you know and
15:18the worst thing is like i think when i met the other girls you know i had forgotten that i
15:25got
15:25by jeffrey epstein and one of the survivors who was going with me to the house i had reached out
15:32to her and i said wow i said i'm talking to all these girls that have been survivors of epstein
15:37and
15:37they all got this is insane he has never done that to us and she stood silent on the phone
15:44and she was
15:44like what are you talking about i said jeffrey epstein never did this to us why why do you do
15:51this to all these women to all these young girls she goes marina jeffrey epstein does and i think
15:59you might have gotten a little bit worse than all of us because he used to prompt you and pick
16:06you up
16:06and put you on top of him and have us all standing there and saying this is how you do
16:12it this is how
16:13a good girl is this is how it's supposed to be done just the way marina does it and i
16:18had completely
16:19not forgotten about it but blocked it in my head and i think that's what trauma does to you
16:24so sorry that you had to go through that like while listening to it also i am just
16:29i i am so sorry for what what happened could you tell me what how close was this friend to
16:35you
16:35who actually took you to jeffrey epstein you know i was very close to her to be honest with you
16:42and i think that from the beginning uh her leading me to different places in life i should have known
16:50better but i think being misguided by my mother did not help that situation and um we were we were
16:59close you know i don't blame her i have to say that i don't blame her you also said that
17:04you were
17:05abused by your stepfather when you were eight years old could you tell us a little bit about that also
17:09like how was it like for you as an eight year old the home and the surrounding at that point
17:15of time
17:16what is it that you wanted to do but you couldn't do so if you could just take us back
17:20a little bit
17:21on that as well yeah i i most definitely can i think that's where things went wrong right there
17:28when i started to get abused by my stepfather at the age of eight when i came to i left
17:33brazil my mom
17:34first came to new york and wanted to start a better life for us and she stayed in new york
17:39for about a
17:40year and then i my uncle took me to new york to be with her and when i got to
17:45new york
17:46she already had met my stepfather which was her boyfriend at the time and you know i was introduced
17:52to my stepfather not thinking anything else and um sooner than i thought my stepfather would lay me
17:59in his lap with my head in his lap and would cover my face and would put on porn and
18:06i did not know
18:06what porn was and i was also very interested in knowing what was under those blankets that he would
18:13cover my head and i started to see the porn that was happening that was he was putting on
18:19but not knowing that you know what point was i think at eight years old the only thing i knew
18:24was a peck
18:24on the mouth and um sooner or later he started to do the same thing that was happening in the
18:32porn to
18:32myself and it went on for a very long time and i did not know that it was anything wrong
18:38to be very
18:39very honest with you i don't think any eight or nine year old ten year old i think you start
18:44to
18:44know about these things i would say about 11 or 12 right so my mom caught us in the bedroom
18:50while
18:50you know she had my sister with my stepfather my my sister was born at the time was already born
18:56and
18:56she was in the crib and my stepfather had me in the bed with him and he was like tossing
19:01me around
19:02like playing with me uh obviously not playing like a you know a stepfather in a childhood but playing
19:09with me in a sexual way and when my mother walked in he threw me off the bed and i
19:14landed on the floor
19:15and i didn't know why he did that i was completely confused and my mother took him in the other
19:23room
19:23and screamed at him and it was a big argument and she came in the room afterwards where i was
19:27and she
19:28was like listen no this is wrong no this will never happen again had a little conversation with me
19:33and i was like wow i had no idea that this was absolutely wrong and the worst part of it
19:40was that
19:41it continued and when it continued my mom i would tell my mom hey he's doing it again and she
19:49would go
19:49and scream at him and it went on for so many years to the point where when i would tell
19:54on him he would
19:55then hit me because i was not letting him sexually abuse me so i was like so upset i was
20:03so frustrated
20:04with my mom i just didn't understand why she couldn't just go to the police and her reasoning
20:10was when we would argue about i mean at 10 11 years old i was screaming at my mom which
20:14is definitely not
20:15okay right like we grow up to respect our parents and i was losing respect for my mom and not
20:21understanding
20:22why she just wouldn't go to the police and she said listen we're immigrants i'm scared of the police
20:27i'm scared i'm not going to get a job i'm scared a whole bunch of of of excuses what i
20:32like to call
20:33now as a mother you know i think our job is to protect our children and do whatever we can
20:39for them and whatever we need to do for them and it really destroyed my relationship with my mom
20:46and one day we had a room we had we had rented out two of the rooms of this four
20:52bedroom that we lived
20:53in and two of those room were rented and one of the girls that were living there comes up to
20:59me i was at
20:59burger king and she says hey listen i know what's happening to you and your stepfather tried doing it
21:05on me let's go to the police and i jumped out of my seat and i was like oh my
21:10god this is the only
21:12thing that i want i just want to be free of this my mom sometimes would leave me in the
21:16house
21:16with my stepfather knowing what he was doing to me and i would just literally cross my legs and there
21:24used to be a little ledge by the window and i would sit by the window and just look out
21:29the window and
21:30just like oh my god please come home like why did you why did you leave me you know in
21:36the middle
21:36of the night sometimes he would come in my bedroom and i would just pray like oh my god please
21:41let me
21:41just have one night of just you know just just peace just peace i just want it to be a
21:50peace
21:51and i think that's why you know when i have my platform now i advocate so much how important peace
21:59is and how important it is to protect your peace and how important it is for you know parents
22:06moms uh moms that to explain to their kids what it is when somebody talks to you in a certain
22:14way when
22:15somebody touches you in a certain way because peace is something that we cannot buy along with health
22:21and i think once you destroy your peace your health is also destroyed so i think that you know
22:29unfortunately i think that really i just never understood why my mom never um really you know
22:40protected me and i think till today it's something that it's unspoken me and my mom don't have a good
22:47relationship we really we only spoke i think two weeks ago i finally had to you know going through so
22:54much healing to through so much therapy i had to just let go of my mom's relationship which is very
23:01hard for a woman because as you being a woman you know how important your mom is i know her
23:07dads are
23:07you know i didn't grow up with a dad my dad was just really never around and not because he
23:12did
23:12anything wrong to me my father i think he was just too old and he's 25 years older than my
23:18mom and he had
23:19other kids and i think his priorities were a little bit different but you know it really
23:26made me wonder like why did my mom do this until today i don't think we could ever have that
23:32conversation i think that she truly believes that i chose my life and i chose my road and this is
23:39where
23:39i'm at now and it's not because of her it's mainly because what i chose in life
23:45when you went to the police did something happen to that complaint when you went to
23:49complain about your stepfather and how what was your mom's reaction to it if you don't mind me asking
23:56well when i went um when i went to the police uh with this young woman the police questioned me
24:04without my mom and they scared me they said i we think you're just jealous of your younger sister
24:10being born and they started telling me things that i was just so like what do you mean i'm telling
24:14you
24:15about my abuse how can you not believe me you know i was 12 years old at the time and
24:21um they started to
24:23question if i was being honest or not and they pressured me so much they scared me so much like
24:32you
24:32know your stepfather is going to jail and there's going to be consequences and they said a whole bunch of
24:38things and what i did was i actually told them lies i started to minimize the abuse that my stepfather
24:44did because i started to get scared about being honest right like i just don't understand why you
24:51know the police were so aggressive with me and why they questioned me at 12 years old without my mom
24:56there and when my mom walked into the priest and her first question was what did you tell them and
25:02when
25:02i told her she was like good good like thank god you didn't say everything and i obviously didn't tell
25:08them that my mother knew because i didn't want to be taken away from my mom because i was still
25:12you know this person who looked up to my mom and just wanted to be with my mom so my
25:17stepfather did six
25:18months in jail he came out and they gave him five years of probation but then my mom moved him
25:24back in
25:25and that's when i moved out of the house i moved out of the house around 15 years old and
25:31i was like
25:32i can't do this anymore so i really stayed in that house taking care of my mom and my sister
25:37for about
25:37a year a year or so and then when she moved him back in i had a boyfriend at the
25:42time who was a year
25:44older than me it was like i'm not letting you live there that's like unheard of and he moved me
25:49out
25:50and the irony of it we found an apartment across the street from my mom's house but i have to
25:56command
25:56this this boyfriend of mine who's somewhere in the world and is very very successful today and he did
26:03some things for me to have a better life and uh at 15 years old we were living together and
26:11i was working
26:12seeing jeffrey he did not know about it and obviously a year after we had broken up because
26:19he is 17 years old and i was 16 you know obviously we cannot you know have a relationship
26:25we were so young and he moved out and i ended up living by myself so at 16 years old
26:34it was really
26:34the worst time for me because i was living in an apartment i was living by myself i had you
26:40know
26:40two roommates that were my friends at the time similar age to what i was their parents were also they
26:46were neglected from their parents so it was really a tough time and i think one of my friends who
26:51were
26:51was a roommate at the time was like she just never paid rent on time and i felt i always
26:57felt so much
26:58that i just had so much responsibility in the beginning when you asked me what i do for a living
27:02i think everybody asks me now tells me now like all my friends they're like oh my god you'd be
27:07so good
27:08at this oh my god you'd be so good at this you should do this you should that i'm like
27:11i've been working
27:12since i'm 13 years old i've done almost and not almost everything but i've almost done everything
27:18that you can think of from working in a factory from working in a real estate office working in a
27:24catering company i've been um you know i've already done a little work at um with stock brokers i had
27:32worked in a commercial company i've done background for modeling i was uh i mean i i've done almost
27:38everything you can think of i sold desserts at one point um i went through the loop of so many
27:47jobs
27:47uh waitress bar back bus boys bartender i mean and and i was the type of person that was like
27:54hey i
27:55don't know how to do this but give me a month and i will learn it and i'll be really
27:58good at it
27:59and i really a lot of people gave me the chance and the opportunity to learn it
28:04what were you exactly doing at the time when you met jeffrey were you looking for jobs or were you
28:08doing something at the time no i i was working i was working i used to work in a real
28:13estate office
28:14after school i was a secretary there uh and her my boss's name was angelique and as she were i
28:21worked
28:22on broadway uh it was called capital royalty and then on the weekends i would work at a catering
28:28company and a jewish uh catering company and most of the their weddings would be sometimes
28:36uh during the weekend they would have a different schedule and i can't remember now i think sometimes
28:41it would mainly be on a sunday or on a friday i think they weren't allowed to do weddings on
28:46a
28:46saturday um i can't quite remember but that was like my little side job because they would only have
28:51weddings a certain day so whenever they would call us for a wedding i would go but i would have
28:56a
28:56regular job after school i think it was three four times a week at this real estate office
29:03okay and uh i mean uh taking you back where uh we were talking about you met jeffrey and then
29:09you
29:09met him again could you tell me that how long were you there for and like what exactly happened
29:16during that time if you could just explain a bit about that i was there from the age of 14
29:22and so 17
29:24and i think a lot of times you know it was really on jeffrey's time it was whenever he was
29:30in new york
29:31and eventually he had said to me hey listen you know do you know any friends of yours that want
29:36to
29:36come here and i was like jeffrey i'm just i can't bring any of my friends here like i don't
29:41want to
29:41tell anybody about this i think this is very personal i really wanted to tell him like this is very
29:46embarrassing like what i'm doing here is super embarrassing super shameful and he was like well
29:51listen marina i know that you need the money i know you're going through a tough time i know that
29:57you're not legal here in the states and i know that you need me so if you want to continue
30:01this
30:02you know making this money two three times a week i would highly recommend you bring another girl to me
30:07and at the time i was completely lost i was like holy crap i don't want to tell anybody about
30:12this
30:12but at that time i had met a girl on my block that i lived in and she was going
30:18through a lot
30:18and her brother and her were fighting a lot her brother had a girlfriend her mother had passed
30:24away her father had passed away and she had cried so much to me about what a tough time she
30:29was going
30:29so she had moved in with me um when um i i was with jeffrey epstein and i just said
30:38to her like hey
30:39listen like this is what i'm doing this this and that and she was like oh my god put me
30:43on because i
30:44really need to make money and like this is how you're making money that i want to make money this
30:49way so and that's how kind of i entered jeffrey epstein world and you know i think that really
30:57went from on from there you tell us like he had his way right like he used to talk to
31:03girls in a way
31:04there was certain language that he used to use he used to manipulate them basically and at the end of
31:10the day right we should not forget that you were only 14 years of age you did not have that
31:15you
31:15came from a background which was very difficult for you starting from the age of eight years old
31:21how like even with the other survivors also could you tell us from your experience the kind of language
31:26that he used with you the things that he used to manipulate you or even threaten you during that time
31:31well i don't think at the time we knew that we were being manipulated right and i can't quite
31:37remember exactly the things that he uh used but um he would always make sure that we were always very
31:45present meaning that we weren't using drugs and we weren't using alcohol and he would tell us if
31:51i find out you guys are using drugs or alcohol coming here i'm going to take a piece of your
31:56hair
31:57and i'm going to send it to the lab and i'm going to find out that was one way of
32:02controlling us
32:02then we would get like a cab service that was in astoria he didn't want us to take that cab
32:08service
32:08anymore because i think they kept well i think no they did keep record of where we were going because
32:13when we call that cab service we would tell them we're going here here here and there it's not like
32:17now uber you just put an address with also they have a record of that and i think just manipulating
32:24us
32:25like when he would use me and tell the other girls that i was better than them and i think
32:31the girls
32:32used to feel like oh my god she's gonna make it and i'm not because she's better than me so
32:37he used
32:38to kind of put us against one another and also used to say like well this girl brings me five
32:45girls and
32:46you only can bring me one girl so like what are you really doing for me you know there was
32:52just a lot
32:52of different things that he used to do and it was it seemed so normal and today when we look
32:59at it
33:00we're like definitely was not normal it was manipulation grooming and you know all sorts of abuse that
33:08was going on in his house of course you wouldn't know you were only 14 years of age like like
33:12i keep
33:13suggesting that everybody keeps forgetting because now is the time that you're like they're seeing you
33:17as women right who are coming out and speaking but at the time when all of this happened you were
33:21just
33:21children you were not even i wouldn't say young girls i would use the word you were children
33:26at that point well i say i say this and i always have to remind people i have a daughter
33:32who's 12
33:32years old and i have a great example she's about to be 13 in july she had a little friend
33:40a little guy
33:41friend and he had told her that he had gotten oral sex from a different girl and he was telling
33:46her
33:46about and i read it in her messages and i said to her why is this boy telling you that
33:51he had gotten
33:52oral sex from a different girl i said not only is this very personal for her and him even though
34:00at
34:00this age they shouldn't be doing that i said but he is trying to make it seem like it's okay
34:05to do it
34:06and that you should do it yourself this is called grooming when you are doing this you are grooming
34:13this young girl into thinking that that girl did it now you should do it because she's doing it and
34:20it's cool and it's okay and everybody's doing it so not only older men groom girls boys are doing it
34:28in the age and this is why i always tell parents and always advocate and speak to teach your children
34:34to have boundaries women especially because when they create boundaries it sets them it creates a
34:42a line whether you know hey this is not okay you don't talk to me like that you don't speak
34:49to me
34:49like that you don't touch me like that you you demand respect and that that is what will prevent
34:56your child from being in an abusive financial emotional physical relationship and friendship
35:04i was actually going to come to this a little later but now that since you have mentioned it
35:08i just wanted to ask you that you are a mother of a girl right i'm sure that this must
35:14have also
35:14like in a way i wouldn't say in like affected but influenced the relationships around you and also
35:21with your daughter like i'm sure that you must have been like very careful or maybe uh overprotective
35:28around her i mean could you please explain i mean could you please tell us a little bit about
35:32your relationship with your daughter as well now i think my relationship with my daughter i would say
35:37is awesome but being who she is she's 12 going on 25 it's a conflict right because she thinks she
35:45knows everything like sometimes she tells me well mom i want to go to the park like all the moms
35:50you know they let their their they let them go to the park and they drop them off i'm like
35:56yeah but
35:56i am not them i know the world and you will not be going by yourself i will let you
36:00go i will watch
36:01you from afar i will not get involved with you and your friends and i will let you be the
36:07phone i have
36:08to have everything that happens in her phone and my phone but now i've come to the point where i
36:13don't
36:14want her to have her phone anymore so she has no phone she's probably the only kid she's probably not
36:20she is the only kid in her group who doesn't have a phone i just don't want her to have
36:25a phone because
36:26it's just it's an opening to so many things the internet is so dangerous and it really scares me
36:36um and i think that's where mostly human trafficking happens nowadays is through the internet and it's just
36:43it's it's it's something that i just don't allow at this age anymore and i think it also uh comes
36:51into the place the movies she wants to get dropped off at the movies i don't let it sleepovers i
36:55there's
36:56only two people in my life that have my daughters that i allow them to sleep over and that's because
37:02i know very much they're my friends and i know their dynamic of their house i don't allow my daughter
37:08to sleep over anybody's house that's just never going to happen you know so there are a few
37:13things but i don't think it should be because what i went through it should be everybody's rule
37:19every every parent out there should have this rule you shouldn't just let your kids go wherever they
37:24want to go because it's going to make them happy it's your job to protect them and be you know
37:30like
37:30the police you need to investigate before you allow them must have also been difficult for you to trust
37:35other people around your daughter as well i believe
37:39it is very difficult and i think it's more difficult for me to trust men around my daughter
37:46and obviously because of what happened to me so um there are certain people that come into our lives
37:54that are men that are not a part of our family that i always tell her listen and i think
38:01there's like
38:02one certain person that comes around the family will i not mention names and i just don't trust him
38:07and i tell her all the time hey pay attention i'm here but you need to know that this this
38:14and that can
38:14happen and if it does you need to tell me right away and she's so on top of it she's
38:19like mom i know
38:20i know like i don't worry like i know if like anything you know happens or they say anything i'm
38:27going to tell you i'm like yeah you need to tell me and this person has not yet shown me
38:31that they are going to do something wrong but i'm very like i'm watching
38:48you know he kept lingering on and i just thought that if i kept telling him how much i was
38:55going
38:55through and you know just um all the time complaining about my situation and i don't think
39:04he saw it like oh i'm gonna help her i think he saw it as in like she needs money
39:08so i'm gonna use
39:10that as a tool to keep her around and to bring me other young girls that were my age at
39:15the time
39:15and i think that's what his main goal was and that's definitely what he achieved i was only
39:21trafficked to galane and it would just so happen to be i would say an accident you know we one
39:28day
39:28me and a jane doe who was he was very much in love with he had asked us to go
39:33to his bedroom and we
39:34went to his bedroom which is weird because we really hardly left the massage room and we went into the
39:40bedroom and in that bedroom galane walked in but at the time i didn't know it was galane and he
39:46said a
39:47friend of mine will be joining and she joined and a lot of things happened in that bedroom some of
39:53it
39:53i can remember some of it i can't i remember he had white bed sheets and um you know they
40:00both
40:00raped both of us girls and uh it was definitely something that i'm happy to say i don't remember
40:07all the details but you know when was the time when you decided that i mean what you basically tried
40:15to get out of this room basically or how did you get out of this room basically from jeffrey
40:21well i think what happened was i started to get very i started to mature myself i started to work
40:27at a coffee shop i was a waitress and i started to make a decent amount of money i had
40:31you know
40:31was not in high school anymore i had dropped out my mom had dropped me out of high school
40:35and i was 17 at the time i was working in this coffee shop it was a lounge coffee shop
40:41and i had lied to these people told them that was 18 so that i would get the job they
40:47didn't ask me
40:48for id they just believed you know what i was and um i was maturing wearing makeup and you know
40:56really
40:57loving the fact that i had this job right and i would see jeffrey here and there but he would
41:02tell
41:03me he's like hey you know you're just like you're not fun you don't bring me girls anymore that were
41:08appropriate for his age they were like 17 18 19 because being 17 i was hanging out with other
41:16girls older girls and i was maturing so i wasn't hanging out with young girls and it would be weird
41:21for me to be hanging out at 17 with a 15 year old right or a 14 year old so
41:26i really wasn't bringing
41:27him what he wanted and i wasn't bringing him what he wanted i like he was tired of me you
41:33know from 14
41:34to 17 that's a long time he was he was completely tired of me and it was kind of something
41:39where we
41:39disconnected because i just got boring and i got old and we disconnected from that during your time
41:45there like like you told us a little bit about his house like uh he had all of these paintings
41:50and
41:50everything could you tell us a little bit about the kind of people that used to come there
41:54or the like you said the age the girls that you were saying how young these girls were if you
42:00would get us about that well the people that were going there were just the employees that i seen
42:05the chef you know the maid his driver because his driver had um delivered some of the furniture
42:13in my house that i was living in by myself so i really didn't get i didn't get to see
42:18anybody but
42:19i got to talk to a lot of different people on the phone he would brag about that he was
42:24getting
42:24massaged from a young girl so we did talk to a lot of prominent important people which i will not
42:30name and he always bragged but he never said our age he just said we were young and beautiful girls
42:35you know so um i i've never been to any of jeffrey epsi's party um i think that everyone's story
42:44is
42:44different here was it in your case that did you also maybe later in the time did you also go
42:50uh to
42:51the police or maybe to the fbi to complain about him or was it not the case in your uh
42:55no the fbi
42:57came to me in 2008 they knocked on my door and when they knocked on my door i was very
43:03scared and
43:04i had not really been in contact with epsi but i had always memorized his number and when the fbi
43:10came
43:10they were very aggressive and they had mentioned that i didn't want to talk to them and they you
43:16know the girl that had came had put her foot in the door because i went to go close the
43:20door because
43:20i was scared it was the fbi and she had said to me you were going to speak to me
43:25whether you like
43:25it or not meaning they were either going to come back with a warrant or a subpoena i didn't know
43:30at the time so i called uh jeffrey's secretary and um called jeffrey jeffrey called me right away
43:38within 10 minutes and i said hey i have the fbi here like what is going on now i want
43:43people to
43:44understand i did not know what was going on in west palm florida i did not know what was going
43:48on in
43:48mexico i did not know anything i really thought it was just myself and my friends that had gotten
43:55in trouble and i said oh my god so jeffrey said to me listen don't worry um you know don't
44:04call me back
44:05don't call the landline don't call the office i'm gonna get your lawyer and the lawyer did reach out
44:10to me and unfortunately to say the lawyer really was to um represent jeffrey and his safety and what
44:19he required and they really kept me out of going to west palm i did get subpoenaed to go to
44:24west palm
44:24but they really made that not happen and i think that's how jeffrey epstein took the sweetheart deal
44:32with alexa costa and kept me out of the stand because then it would open up a whole investigation
44:38in new york and i think that's what it worked out to be so after that did anybody else reach
44:44out to
44:44you like after like the final word it came before that when was the next time that you met the
44:50fbi or
44:51anybody else from the authorities or the concerned authorities at that point of fact 2019 that was the
44:58biggest yes you must have also heard about the verdict when he was convicted right when what when
45:05jeffrey epstein was convicted i was subpoenaed in 2019 yes yes so what was your reaction at that
45:14time also like what what did you feel like i was like seriously i'm never this is always gonna haunt
45:23me i was like wow like from 2008 2019 that's 11 years i was like what the hell like i'm
45:31never going to
45:33relieve from this so i really was like i just need to be straight up and honest about it and
45:38you know
45:38at that time the fbi came back to me it was a little bit more pleasant uh not the whole
45:44process after
45:45that because it was very intimidating but i just really said this is it i have to come to reality
45:52that
45:52this is never going to go away and um they gave me options to you know have a lawyer because
45:58i do have
45:58my rights and i you know spoke to lawyer and she helped me out with things but it was a
46:03very hard
46:04time to do all my indictments and my you know all my statements and all that that was a very
46:08difficult
46:08time also sometime after that you must have also heard the news about that he about allegedly killed
46:16himself right in the prison itself how did that feel i mean what was your reaction when you heard about
46:24that you know what i remember what i remember is me being like very okay with it and being like
46:31thank
46:31god i don't have to go and you know answer questions in front of the authorities in front of jeffrey
46:37i was
46:37like very intimidated by that i was very scared because i knew he had a lot of power but going
46:43back and
46:43seeing some of my emails i was having a hard time understanding that he was dead so i remember me
46:50being okay
46:51with it but my emails to my lawyers say a totally different thing so i think it was a mixed
46:55feelings
46:56but today i'm very happy that he's not with us because he's no longer going to hurt anybody do you
47:03also feel like that is is there with with his conviction with his death was there ever a sense of
47:09justice that came with it you know a lot of other people may have they see justice in a different
47:16way
47:16i see it as this person's gone he will never hurt a child a boy a girl a woman a
47:25man ever ever again
47:26it will never abuse his power he is no longer with us so i think like that is the biggest
47:31justice here
47:32and then also we have been asking to be heard and our voices to be heard for a long time
47:39they're
47:39finally being heard and it's finally going all over the world and i think this is the biggest justice
47:45here that we get to spread our voices and our stories through everybody and power men and women
47:51to always speak up no matter how long you've been abused for or where or who it doesn't matter as
47:58long
47:58as you share your story with somebody that doesn't have to be with the whole world but it should be
48:02one safe person and i think that's really what justice has brought nowadays survivors had been
48:07speaking for a very long time it's not that they have come up right now the virginia has been
48:12speaking about it dr annie farmer has been speaking her sister also it's not that this these stories
48:17are coming right now do you think that it is also somewhere down the line a little unfair that the
48:22world actually paid attention to it when the files came out people were not listening to the survivors
48:27earlier it took actually these files and these emails of this man to actually come out for people to
48:34actually believe the survivors that there were so many of them if you could just say a little bit
48:41about that as well how does that feel it is very unfair but unfortunately life is unfair right and
48:52everything comes within time the truth will set you free and i think everything happens at the right
48:57time um when it's meant to happen and you know it is unfair but there's nothing that we can't do
49:04about it you know what was then we can only take what we have now and i always like to
49:10remind people
49:11i know sometimes people go through a tough time and they're like why is this happening to me why why
49:16why
49:16why there will be a better outcome there is always a light at the end of the road so always
49:20keep your
49:21hope up never give up on you know hope because that's really all you have you have faith and hope
49:26so
49:27we really can't live on the unfairness we can only ask for justice what wasn't brought when we when we
49:34tried when these women have tried to speak about these men who have done you know horrible things to
49:41them but i don't think it's something that we need to i don't like to live in the past i'm
49:46going to be
49:46honest with you who i am today i don't like to sit here and cry over and over about my
49:50abuse with
49:51both these men i think it's something that we need to move forward and we need to make a change
49:55and
49:56that's why god gives us the life that we have when you basically decided that you're not going to
50:01meet jeffrey epstein at all like when you cut ties with him after that i just also wanted to know
50:06that
50:07how did you deal i'm sure there must have been a bit of trauma how did you deal with all
50:11those years
50:12all by yourself how did you get yourself together i'm sure that it must have influenced some of your
50:17actions how you would do things a little bit if you could speak about that as well i think that
50:22everyone heals in a very completely different way some people need therapy some people need
50:27medicine some people need yoga and i think that um i just healed myself with really realizing you know
50:37and understanding what happened to me as a child right i think that i was misguided by my mom
50:44so i think i had to really understand and accept the fact that that person wasn't there for me so
50:53that was very hard for me i think up until a year ago i had a really tough time understanding
50:58that my mom
50:59wasn't there for me and i just had to accept it and i had to go on with life i
51:04do have a daughter i do
51:05have something to look forward to in my life and i think that not only my daughter have to look
51:10forward
51:10but now i have what is called life after abuse and many women will have that and i think it's
51:17something that you need to set a goal and dedicate yourself like what do you want to do in life
51:21what
51:22is your goal here what is your point of living and i think i've made my point of living which
51:28is for my
51:29daughter and speaking on behalf of women and i found something that has made me look forward to
51:35something and i think that's part of my healing so i i i am not recommending this for everybody's
51:41healing but i think that everyone should find their own way of healing how doj dealt with this
51:46we all saw that how they basically released the personal details of the survivors as well
51:51at this point of time what is it that we expect from the government and from the doj for the
51:57survivors for
51:58so that they get a sense of justice a sense of closure that they want at this point of time
52:03so if you
52:04could just talk about that maybe like you've been talking like we're moving forward what is it as a
52:09survivor that you want in order to get that sense of justice and a sense of closure that you deserve
52:14and you need well i think first of all everyone you know all the survivors wanted to really understand
52:21that we were not a hoax and that we were definitely a real thing and that has come to real
52:27life now
52:28but i think moving forward is uh we need to put all these men that have you know uh been
52:36brought to
52:36light we know about these perpetrators we need to bring them to justice they need to see their day in
52:41court and i think that's what we are expecting from our government and from other people other people
52:47in you know other countries are taking action and most important i think it's very important for the
52:53doj when the next files do come out that they need to redact our names and they need to keep
52:57the
52:57powerful and the rich man names unredacted i think this is very important here not only for the american
53:03people but for the survivors and for all the women around the world
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