- 6 weeks ago
- #margaretthatcher
Documentary, Thatcher A Very British Revolution 1of5 Making Margaret
#MargaretThatcher
#MargaretThatcher
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00Hello.
00:01Hello.
00:02Now, we're still doing the, uh,
00:12collaboration, but I haven't seen the six tasks yet.
00:19With capitalism and free enterprise,
00:22there are no boundaries of class or creed or colour.
00:26Everyone can climb the ladder.
00:28As high as their talents will take them.
00:33We are battling for a Britain free-from-class conflict.
00:38Margaret had always been a very controversial figure,
00:41and still is.
00:43She was absolutely fixed on what she believed
00:47was the right thing to do.
00:49She liked the battle.
00:50She liked taking on her enemies.
00:53I have only one thing to say.
00:56You turn if you want to.
01:03The ladies not for turning.
01:08Now, don't move.
01:10Can you please stand still?
01:12No, I never had any doubts.
01:19Three years for the P.M.
01:22The P.M.
01:23The P.M.
01:24The P.M.
01:25The P.M.
01:26The P.M.
01:27Make it, make it, make it.
01:28We will begin to roll back the years of Thuturism.
01:31I don't think she listens to people.
01:34I just think she's one-minded.
01:36I'll confirm.
01:37You want to buy...
01:38Two and a half at four.
01:39What do you mean from that?
01:40I would never use the word regal, because that implies to me a unifying phrase.
01:47Dictatorial would be a happier phrase.
01:51I think the greatest quality was she didn't want to be loved.
02:08God save me from politicians who want to be loved.
02:12You would see that she was very red-eyed, and she broke down.
02:18If you look back over history, you'll find that the great figures are always referred to by their surname.
02:27Churchill, Attlee, Wellington.
02:32Thatcher was in that same category.
02:36Those figures don't come that often.
02:42The G-E-M paradigm.
02:46I think there isn't any fairly gallantly.
02:49They left env suburbs in cities.
02:51The G-E-Mであいつ had a尉 PRES create song.
02:54I wish that they could return to woman history.
02:56This word it was so very well against her since I needed we might save Isaac.
03:00I would never give over policeives in Cuba.
03:03I don't know.
03:04I was trying to think about our shake to dormir with Damascus.
03:05But this time and this time there is back to dinner.
03:07You know what I love being.
03:08I'm just800 when I wasывать,
03:09naireを描�� Ms.
03:10Good evening.
03:16This evening, a chance to meet one of the few women to become a cabinet minister.
03:21Mrs Margaret Thatcher, Secretary of State for Education and Science.
03:25Mrs Thatcher, I was in the House of Commons when you made your maiden speech,
03:29and I remember you feared to be totally without nerves.
03:34I'm never totally without nerves.
03:36I'm normally as frightened as a kitten, it's just that somehow you managed to control it.
03:41Ah, well I hope you're going to control it and not be as frightened as a kitten tonight.
03:45I'm trying hard.
03:47Well, we too, then, we'll try hard.
03:50But before the questions, let's take a look at the career of Margaret Thatcher.
03:55At 45, Margaret Thatcher is only the second woman in history to hold a post in a Conservative cabinet.
04:01Her parents were neither wealthy nor highly educated.
04:04They lived in Grantham, Lincolnshire.
04:14When I started in politics, I became the education whip.
04:19That was how I got to know personally a bit, and I got on with her all right.
04:25Margaret Thatcher was a bizarre character.
04:28She was one of the most unlikely human beings I ever met.
04:31The woman was a workaholic and highly intelligent workaholic.
04:36Even Margaret Thatcher's light, bantering conversation was about politics.
04:43The statutory female in Heath's cabinet has been given the Ministry of Education, traditionally seen as the department for a woman.
04:56Women in politics, generally it seems to me, are confined, if you like, to the roles of art and education.
05:04Have you any ambitions to play a more important role, perhaps that of Prime Minister?
05:12A more important role than education, Mr. Caller.
05:15Oh, come, come.
05:17But I know...
05:17Prime Minister might be.
05:18I'm going to ask you to answer if you can.
05:20Yes, I know you are.
05:21Yes, no, I don't think that in my lifetime there will be a woman Prime Minister.
05:25I'm always a realist.
05:27I don't think there will be.
05:28I'm delighted to have someone in the audience who thinks that a woman could be Prime Minister or Chancellor of the Exchequer.
05:34If you told me, when I was the education whip, that this woman was going to be Prime Minister,
05:40even I, who would really dislike her over at all, I'd have thought that was ridiculous.
05:50It's quite a good time as well.
05:51You'll lead the way.
05:52Yeah.
05:53Mrs. Thatcher's considerable ability, combined with her fairly right-wing views,
05:57has made her something of a heroine figure in the Conservative Party.
06:01She's a regular visitor to all types of schools, on this occasion Highbury Grove Comprehensive School.
06:05Oh, yes, there I am, yes, on the right, yes.
06:17Actually, I'm smarter than I thought I did.
06:19I thought my hair was longer.
06:22Margaret Thatcher was ferociously conscientious.
06:26She dispatched work very quickly, which meant that, from the point of view of the private office,
06:32at any rate, she was a joy to work with.
06:34You've got to match some of these to the pictures, haven't you?
06:38I think the Department of Education toughened her up.
06:42She fought and won important spending battles behind the scenes in Whitehall,
06:48and I think those who really knew had begun to work out that this was quite a formidable player
06:54on the parliamentary and political stage.
06:58After the week spent in the Chelsea house, it's good to have a second home.
07:05It's quite a job in these days without servants,
07:08to keep pace with seven bedrooms and five acres in rural Kent for the Thatchers,
07:12Dennis, Margaret, and the 17-year-old twins.
07:14Even the swimming pool needs a good clean-out before you can actually swim in it,
07:20by mark, on holiday from boarding school at Harrow.
07:23Your father certainly wasn't very prosperous, but he was a great local personality,
07:27an alderman for many years, governor of the school, etc.
07:30What influence did he have on you in your youth?
07:33My father, I think, was college or university material that couldn't go,
07:37and therefore he was desperately anxious to give me every chance that he hadn't had,
07:42and I owe almost everything to this.
07:46To understand Margaret, you have to go back to Grantham,
07:49because she lived in a very humble way in a local grocer's shop.
07:55There were not many grocer's daughters of small grocer's shops
07:58who get to Somerville to study chemistry, but she did,
08:01and that requires enormous commitment, drive determination,
08:05and I think quite a lot of economic thinking was fashioned by that.
08:09When you left school, one of your recommendations had this to say,
08:14a most thorough and conscientious worker with ambition and determination to do well.
08:19Do you think that's a fair summary?
08:20I'm sure that was right at that time.
08:22Do you see, for a person of my own background and upbringing,
08:26you had to do well yourself to do better,
08:31and therefore one had to go on to university,
08:34one had by one's own efforts to get as good a job as possible,
08:37and one really had to work, and work extremely hard.
08:40But at that age, it never occurs to you
08:43that you can't achieve your ambitions.
08:46Never.
08:47Never.
08:52When I first got elected to Parliament,
09:03I discovered something called the ladies' room,
09:07and the ladies' room was furnished, rather surprisingly,
09:09with a rather nice sofa,
09:12and I could see that that was for fainting on
09:14or overcoming some awful feeling of unbalance or something of that kind.
09:19You could lie on the sofa.
09:22It also had an ironing ball, a rather nice ironing ball, an ironing,
09:26which was almost permanently occupied, as far as I could tell, by Mrs Thatcher.
09:30She spent a lot of time during the late-night meetings in Parliament
09:34actually ironing Dennis' shirts.
09:36I remember saying to her,
09:41after I'd had a particularly tough grilling,
09:44Margaret, do you think that was all right?
09:46And I always remember what she said.
09:48She said, um...
09:50Yes, it was all right, she said.
09:52Then she paused and she said,
09:53We shouldn't let them get the better of us.
09:59And at that moment, she expressed a solidarity with other women,
10:04which she didn't always feel.
10:05Mrs Thatcher was an amazing appearance in the Conservative Party.
10:17They are probably the least favourable party, from her point of view,
10:21as the potential woman prime minister.
10:24You didn't have a lively sort of feminist movement
10:27in the way you certainly did in the Labour Party.
10:30She was very ambitious,
10:36saw herself as equal to a lot of the men, if not better.
10:43She actually feeds on obstacles and feeds on problems
10:49and grows as a result of them.
10:51It's been safe to assume until this year
11:05that young children at school
11:06would at least get a nourishing drink of milk.
11:09From September,
11:10the only school children who will get free milk
11:12are the under-7s and those who are actually sick or weak.
11:15What do you think about not getting a proper bottle of milk?
11:18Not fair.
11:20I don't think it's fair.
11:22Because I like milk.
11:24It was a round of Treasury cuts.
11:26They were looking for public expenditure cuts.
11:28And this was one on a shopping list.
11:33Labour government had already removed milk
11:35from secondary school children.
11:36Doing it for children over seven
11:38seemed a no-brainer.
11:39Margaret Thatcher looked at it,
11:41ticked it and passed on.
11:44Man, you know.
11:46How would Mrs Thatcher like to go all day without a drink?
11:50I was a Conservative, but that's finished me.
11:53This milk has finished me.
11:54Never again will I vote Conservative.
11:56Hurting children is absolutely the end.
11:59Little children need a drink
12:01just as much as Mrs Thatcher did
12:03when she came here and had three sips
12:04in just a few minutes.
12:07Fortunately...
12:07And children are at school desk
12:09and they're sometimes terribly frightened.
12:11I've watched children come in from school.
12:13Oh, for a drink.
12:15Is it fair?
12:16In this day and age, is it fair?
12:18Very many, very ordinary parents
12:20can pay towards school meals
12:23and can pay for milk.
12:24If the children have a health requirement...
12:2618 pounds for seven...
12:27If the children have a health requirement
12:29then they can, in fact, get milk free
12:32between 7 and 11.
12:34And Mrs Booth, don't blame me
12:36for knocking off milk above the age of 11.
12:39That was the Labour government.
12:41All right, let's move on from that
12:42to our next topic
12:43as we have many topics to cover.
12:44She was a Margaret Thatcher milk snatcher
12:55and she'd done this
12:56in order to bring back rickets
12:58amongst the children of the poor.
13:02I was tipped off by my godfather
13:05who was Speaker of the House of Commons
13:06and he said,
13:07you know, tonight's going to be very lively.
13:09It's going to be a very rough wind-up
13:10of the education milk bill.
13:14Now, late-night wind-ups
13:17were fuelled by alcohol
13:19and they were very rowdy and combative.
13:22Boy, this one was like a sort of brawl.
13:26The noise levels,
13:28people were chanting.
13:30This is Atler the Hun.
13:32It was the worst,
13:33which were never recorded in Hansard,
13:34but there was a lot of shouting
13:35of Ditch the Bitch.
13:41I felt rather protective towards her.
13:44You couldn't hear her a lot of the time.
13:46She was trying to speak back.
13:48She looked shaken.
13:50She was hurt.
13:57Ted Heath, who was Prime Minister,
14:00Ted and Margaret,
14:02the two plainly disliked
14:05each other personally
14:06very much indeed.
14:10He panicked
14:11about the fact that
14:13this Secretary of State,
14:14who he didn't like anyway,
14:16was now one of the most unpopular women
14:18in the country.
14:19Ted was going to sack her.
14:21In the Whip's office,
14:30we all ferociously resisted.
14:33He can't do that.
14:35He couldn't sack
14:36the only woman in the cabinet.
14:40And on that basis,
14:42he reluctantly kept her.
14:46He nearly brought
14:47her whole career to an end.
14:51Today, our guest is
15:04the Right Honourable
15:05Mrs. Margaret Thatcher MP,
15:07Secretary of State
15:08for Education and Science.
15:09Mrs. Thatcher.
15:13Hello, Mrs. Thatcher.
15:15Nice to see you.
15:15You have a seat.
15:16Let's have a question
15:21from Pamela
15:21in the second row,
15:22third along.
15:23Have you ever thought
15:25of resigning
15:26when you get criticised?
15:28I have not thought
15:29of resigning
15:30from my present post,
15:32no.
15:33Look, if you're
15:33in public life,
15:35you just expect
15:36to get a good deal
15:37of criticism.
15:38I think at first
15:39when you read
15:39these criticisms,
15:40it hurts a little bit
15:42if they get personal.
15:43But after a time,
15:44you just have to
15:45try to put
15:46a sort of armour
15:47around yourself
15:48and carry on
15:49with the job
15:50you're doing.
15:59Last year,
16:00this country lost
16:0111 million working days
16:03through strikes.
16:04The whole blood pressure
16:06of British politics
16:07seems to be rising.
16:08Let's go!
16:08Let's go!
16:09Let's go!
16:09Let's go!
16:10Let's go!
16:10Let's go!
16:10Let's go!
16:11Let's go!
16:11Let's go!
16:12Let's go!
16:12I think in the unions
16:16and in the students' unions
16:18and perhaps too
16:19in the parliamentary
16:19party itself,
16:21on the whole,
16:22there has seemed
16:22to have been
16:23an increasing number
16:24of very left-wingers.
16:33The minor strikes,
16:35quite a lot of members
16:36of the government
16:36wanted to resist this.
16:38Margaret did,
16:39ferociously.
16:40Ted Heath tried
16:42and said,
16:42but it became
16:43a steady disaster.
16:45We are asking you
16:46to cut down
16:47to the absolute minimum
16:48the use of electricity
16:50for heating
16:51and for other purposes
16:52in your home.
16:56We are limiting
16:57the use of electricity
16:58to three days a week.
17:00heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out, heat out.
17:14When I saw the troubles which Heath was getting into
17:19by deserting conservative principles,
17:23I became more and more depressed.
17:28By that time, I had a mission.
17:31That was to steer the party back
17:34to where I believed it should be going.
17:37Mr Heath called this election on the issue
17:39of who governs the country.
17:41And in a few hours time, you'll have his answer.
17:44Who will be the Muffin's Man,
17:46the Muffin's Man, the Muffin's Man?
17:49Who will be the Muffin's Man of 1974?
17:57Yes, who will be the Muffin's Man of 1974?
18:00That's the question they're still asking here in Manchester.
18:02Will it be the leader of the Red Muffins, Harold Wilson?
18:05Could it be the Blue Muffin Man, Ted Heath?
18:08Or could it be the Chief of the Yellow Muffins, Jeremy Thorpe?
18:11Have you made your mind up?
18:13What colour did you have last time?
18:15Fleming.
18:16We'll have a change then.
18:17Oh, that's liberal input.
18:18Do you have yours?
18:19Oh, no.
18:20I think I'll see this one.
18:26Gentlemen, I know that this is a moment
18:27that many people have been waiting for.
18:29The following has, of course, closed for today.
18:30Can you give us the closing state of the poll, please?
18:33Yes, according to today's figures,
18:36Labour well in the lead with the poll of 46.2%.
18:3946.2% for Labour.
18:40That's right.
18:41That's the red one.
18:58Good evening.
18:59After a weekend of doubt and uncertainty,
19:02Mr. Heath has handed in his resignation to the Queen.
19:05At issue for him now, the death of his government
19:09and what his own political future may be.
19:12When we lost in February 1974,
19:18my advice to Ted after that election,
19:21because I was his junior minister, actually,
19:23in the civil service department,
19:25was he should stand for election,
19:26let the party decide when will we have to get on with it.
19:29He didn't do that.
19:30He went on and on, and it got worse for him.
19:32Many conservative leaders have, in the past,
19:36been regarded essentially as election winners,
19:38and you've lost three out of the past four elections.
19:41Don't you think there is a case for change?
19:43Well, I don't think that's been the view
19:44which has taken, or been taken in the past,
19:46about the conservative leadership.
19:56Ted felt that he deserved to stay on,
19:59because he thought he'd been a successful prime minister.
20:03And he thought the party owed him loyalty.
20:07And loyalty is, to speak,
20:08the Conservative Party's secret weapon.
20:10Well, that's an illusion, quite frankly.
20:16He really was living in an unreal world at that time.
20:21People in politics should determine their exit
20:26as well as their entrance.
20:28Most politicians don't.
20:30They hang on to the bitter end and regret it.
20:40When Heath refused to stand down,
20:42were you stumped for what to do?
20:45We were not, I think, stumped for what to do,
20:50because we knew that Heath had to be replaced.
20:54We were stumped by the question of, by whom?
20:58Which is always the more difficult question.
21:02Mrs. Thatcher, why do you want to be leader of the Conservative Party?
21:06Well, I didn't set out to be leader in any way.
21:10I didn't plan it or determine to do it from my youth.
21:16I felt that I could tackle it as well as anyone else.
21:21And I've always believed that when opportunities come,
21:23you should take them and you should use the abilities and talents you've been given
21:31to maximum extent and should stretch them.
21:35And you've got a duty to do so.
21:36Uh, yes, OK, no, no, not very well.
21:45Finchley Conservatives dinner dance last weekend.
21:49Local MP Margaret Thatcher takes the floor with guest of honour Jim Prime.
21:53Alone amongst the top Tories, Margaret Thatcher is challenging Edward Heath for the party leadership.
22:00All the most obvious contenders, the people who would have won if they'd stood the first time,
22:05they were too loyal to Ted and they wouldn't stand against him.
22:08And it looked as though Ted was going to be really re-elected unopposed.
22:12And Margaret, in a fit of pique, that absolutely nobody was challenging this man,
22:20who in the interest of the Conservative Party, in her opinion, obviously should step down.
22:25She allowed herself to put in and make a, and she became the candidate.
22:32Why did you feel that it should be you and not another senior Conservative who should be the one
22:37to challenge Mr Heath in the all-important first ballot?
22:40Well, others could come forward just as much as I could.
22:45The interesting thing was I didn't hesitate.
22:49I took the decision quickly and I've never had any doubt about it,
22:55that it was the right decision and I've never faltered and I'm in no doubt now.
23:06At dawn this morning, the main challenger to Mr Heath left her Chelsea home to start work again.
23:12Though nominations for the leadership closed at noon, her name was entered two days ago.
23:19The election campaign for leadership was where Erin Eve came into the picture.
23:33It was he who approached me and said, Norman, have you thought about Thatcher?
23:49And I said, as leader?
23:52And he said, yes.
23:58Erin Eve was an extraordinary character.
23:59He was the stuff of which history and indeed novels could be made.
24:06He'd escaped from cold hits, so he was a character of great reputation.
24:13If you try to guess his profession, I think you might quite easily conclude it.
24:18He was some sort of shadowy spook.
24:23I mean, just the way he walked, he sort of slithered along the sides of the corridor,
24:30rather like a sort of crab looking for a crevice to hide himself in.
24:33And he hated Heath. It was his driving force.
24:39And so he volunteered to be Margaret Thatcher's campaign manager.
24:42She didn't ask him. She didn't know him very well.
24:45And he threw himself into it with extraordinary passion and great ability.
24:49Erie was a great thinker, a great manoeuvrer. He said, I'll fix for you to meet her and talk to her.
25:00And I realised that she was a quite remarkable person.
25:04One of the chief charges made against you by your opponents within the Conservative Party
25:10is that you would turn the party into a sort of middle class pressure group.
25:14Well, of course we're not, because the kind of philosophy I've been outlining and beliefs
25:19that the ordinary person wants really to be independent, doesn't like being dependent on the state,
25:24doesn't admire a person who always goes along to say,
25:27the state must look after me, whether I work or not.
25:31This is an attitude which goes all throughout society.
25:34All my ideas about it were formed before I was 17 or 18.
25:39I learned it from my father. I learned it from my surroundings.
25:43I believe I represent an attitude, an approach.
25:46And I believe that that approach is borne out by the development of my own life.
25:51That I saw the world in a not dissimilar light to myself.
25:59And that she was a radical Conservative.
26:04I joined Erin Neve's little squad who were committed to persuading the Conservative Party to elect her as leader.
26:16And we resorted to all sorts of tactics.
26:22There was counter-information and disinformation and tradecraft and black propaganda.
26:37We had to persuade members of the party that she was the one who would stand against him on the first ballot.
26:45But of course she couldn't win, so then they would be able to bring forward their candidates.
26:49Margaret hasn't got much hope of winning, but Ted does need a bit of a jolt.
26:55Oh, yes, he needs a jolt. He certainly needs a jolt.
26:58Well, why don't you vote for Margaret first time around?
27:01I mean, you know, she's not going to win, but she'll just give Heath a bit of a shock, a bit of a jolt.
27:07How well organised is your campaign for the leadership?
27:11Well, now I have to rely wholly on voluntary helpers. I have no machine behind me.
27:17And I have a very considerable number of people helping because they want to help.
27:22But what does that mean? A number of MPs going up in the lobbies of the House of Commons and trying to persuade other MPs to vote for you?
27:30No campaign manager reveals fully all the details. Would you?
27:36Good evening. Who'll be the next leader of the Conservative Party?
27:40Will nominations close today for the first ballot of the leadership election?
27:44I went to a summer drinks party and Margaret and Dennis were there.
27:49And I met Carol for the first time. Carol was a very attractive girl, a very bright girl.
27:55I was young and single and I guess I was easily interested in bright, pretty girls. Simple as that.
28:04Carol and I went out for three years. There was no flash in the pan.
28:11They were a good family. Then they had lots of things that I liked about all of them.
28:15Margaret was a force in the home and the kitchen just as she was in the House of Commons.
28:40She bossed everybody around. She's rather a good cook, I seem to remember.
28:44Coronation Chicken being one of her special elders.
28:47Do you and Mark feel that you have to support your mother politically?
28:51Uh, no, I think we disagree, don't we? Every now and then.
28:56Yes, not fundamentally. Not fundamentally on politics. No.
29:02And you support the Conservative cause and help during elections, etc.?
29:05Well, I don't help during elections. Mark does. Mark's more active than I am.
29:10Carol keeps the house going during elections for us, which is a tremendous help.
29:15Did you ever feel like giving it all up because of the effect it would have on the family?
29:20Uh, if ever I got the slightest bit depressed, I mean, they would cheer me up and I don't think
29:27anyone would have contemplated like giving it up. Never.
29:30She showed her love in slightly odd ways.
29:35Press swap. Here we are.
29:36Mark once said to me,
29:38Mum is not at all tactile, so there's not much sort of kissing or anything like that.
29:42She showed her love by how she looked at you. And I think that's right.
29:46And I think probably she was not good at expressing emotions and love.
30:03Once upon a time, the leader of the Conservative Party used to emerge from a magic circle of old
30:09Deuteronians. But Mrs Margaret Thatcher, the main challenger to Mr Heath, was a self-made woman,
30:16a grocer's daughter, who served as a front-bencher under Mr Heath for 10 years,
30:20most notably as Minister of Education.
30:23The Tory party in those days was very paternalistic, very establishment.
30:28They were men whose backgrounds didn't take very kindly to an upstart, a woman,
30:36suddenly rattling their cage.
30:40The first ballot will be held on Tuesday, and to win outright, a candidate must achieve a majority
30:45of all Tory MPs. If no one achieves this, there'll be a second ballot held a week later.
30:53The majority of young people in the Conservative Party,
30:56the young Conservative movement, for example, are very enthusiastic to retain Mr Heath.
31:02What do you think will happen on the first ballot?
31:04I think it's to Heath Royal.
31:14I found the idea of Margaret becoming leader of the Conservative Party incredible at that time.
31:22I'd just seen her in action and worked for her, and this was not a leader. This was not someone who was
31:30going to drive us into power, which of course was the preoccupation.
31:34If you had to describe Margaret Thatcher as a person, what words would you use?
31:42I think that she comes from a certain social background,
31:56one step up the ladder of economic success.
31:59a certain intolerance of those who haven't,
32:12a certain suspicion of those who are further up the ladder,
32:18a certain bigotry and slightly over-simplistic solutions about the nature of the society in
32:27which they live. And then she went to university and got a fantastic degree and she had a fine mind.
32:33And so there were these two Thatchers, the one which conformed to type,
32:42the one which had the intellect to rise way above it.
32:46And you were wise to engage more seriously with the latter than the former.
33:01This was to have been a private celebration as Mrs. Thatcher, flushed with success,
33:14arrived to accept the congratulations of her most ardent supporters.
33:21Equally thrilled by a victory expected by no one except her own campaigners was her son Mark.
33:26Could you bring another bottle?
33:32The celebrations came just after Mrs. Thatcher had heard that Mr. Heath had withdrawn from the contest.
33:38Was the result a surprise for you?
33:40You're recording this?
33:43No, no it wasn't.
33:44Do you expect Mrs. Thatcher's support to hold up under the next ballot?
33:47Yes, yes, I would hold it.
33:52So you fully expect your wife to be leading a Conservative Party, dear?
33:56I do.
33:56How do you feel about it?
33:58Delighted. Terribly proud, naturally, wouldn't you?
34:00Do you feel about it?
34:01Do you feel about it?
34:02Do you feel about it?
34:03Do you feel about it?
34:05Once Margaret had forced a second ballot, all the people who should have stood the first time piled in.
34:13Willie, who if he'd stood the first time, Willie Whitelaw, would have won it.
34:19What makes politics so fascinating is that chance events have a big influence.
34:24The momentum behind Margaret and the emergence of Margaret's position of the first ballot
34:31meant she needed very few extra votes. Most of the first ballots stuck with her.
34:37And the general astonishment, you know, that she won.
34:48Mrs. Thatcher.
34:53A fair 90 minutes after her election as leader of the Conservatives,
34:56Mrs. Thatcher arrived by sports car, central office, the party headquarters.
35:03Sorry, can I get something for six o'clock news?
35:06Mr. Airy Neve, the MP who acted as her campaign manager,
35:09was one of those who slipped back to Westminster looking more than pleased.
35:15Before she'd arrived, many of those who greeted her
35:17had expressed their astonishment at the size of her majority in the ballot.
35:27Can you describe your feelings at this moment, Mrs. Thatcher?
35:30Well, they're a mixture, really. I'm very, very thrilled.
35:34My predecessors, Edward Heath, Alec Douglas Hume,
35:37Harold McMillan, Anthony Eden, and then, of course, the great Winston.
35:42It is like a dream, really. Wouldn't you think so?
35:45I almost wept when they told me. I did weep.
35:51After Mrs. Thatcher had seen her son off to his accountancy studies,
35:55a daughter on her way to law examinations, and a husband away to work in Swindon via the back door,
36:00she set off for the House of Commons to begin the process of setting up her office as the new leader of the opposition.
36:05Margaret Thatcher was one of those glorious accidents of history.
36:22The Tory party woke up one day and discovered that by mistake they had elected this female leader.
36:28The power base was Ted's, Ted Heath's, and deeply suspicious, if not outright hostile to her.
36:42She had real difficulty establishing her authority.
36:46The other thing was, which was actually a separate point, when she became leader, frankly, she wasn't any good at it.
36:59The chamber of the House of Commons in those days was a real crucible.
37:04She would be too wordy, too worthy. She would try to get too much in.
37:12She won sometimes, but usually she did fairly badly, and this caused quite a bit of restlessness on the back benches.
37:22But she worked incredibly hard at it, and she really did plot and plan and be very self-critical.
37:28So many members of her cabinet, who weren't of her own ideological persuasion, began to develop a sneaking regard for this woman.
37:39But the great allies that Margaret had came from strange places in some ways.
37:47Who was the most powerful writer in the last couple of years?
37:52It was Karl Marx who had more effect on the world in his writing life than any other person in the last 50 years.
38:06And how did he have the time to write his work?
38:11Because it was a free society in this country, and he was supported for 30 years of scholarship
38:17by the patronage of a massive business man, the Engelsman.
38:23For 30 years, Keith Joseph believes, the socialists have made the running in British politics.
38:28The Tory party cannot survive, let alone win power, unless it seizes back the initiative.
38:35So Sir Keith is on the warpath, goading his opponents to join the battle of ideas.
38:40To expose hypocrisy? Let me ask you, Paul!
38:44Sir Keith Joseph in action, the man appointed by Mrs. Thatcher as her trailblazer for the new Toryism.
38:53Keith Joseph was one of the nicest men in politics I've ever known.
38:57He was academically absolutely brilliant.
39:02Probably eccentric.
39:03He couldn't run a wealth store.
39:05He would have been a catastrophic prime minister.
39:09But his influence over Margaret was immense.
39:13He helped fix the strong ideas she had by the time she became prime minister.
39:20We would throw out the socialist taxes which inhibit new enterprise.
39:26We'll bring in a society which lives within its means, where public expenditure is cut,
39:33and where waste of taxpayers' money is ruthlessly expunged.
39:40Yes, we'll bring in a conservative society.
39:43She was always very curious, always very interested in ideas.
39:54You know, sometimes when people would mention a book or mention a particular writer, she'd
39:59jot it down on a piece of paper and put it in her handbag.
40:02She got more and more interested in free market economics.
40:18America was important to Mrs. Thatcher because it epitomized what she believed in, a land of opportunity.
40:31I'd like to say hello to Mrs. Thatcher and our other distinguished dinner committee members,
40:36so perhaps you'd be kind enough to come along here and shake hands with them.
40:41Mrs. and Mr. Thatcher at the reception before her first public speech in New York.
40:57This audience was typical of those chosen to hear Mrs. Thatcher's enunciation of what's now being called
41:03the new Tory creed, on the whole rich, on the whole conservative.
41:07This dinner given by an institute dedicated to cutting welfare spending
41:11and giving the poor incentives to work hard.
41:17Ladies and gentlemen, I am pleased to introduce the leader of Her Majesty's opposition,
41:22the Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher.
41:38The pursuit of equality itself is a mirage. What's more desirable and more practicable than the pursuit
41:45of equality is the pursuit of equality of opportunity. And opportunity means nothing,
41:52unless it includes the right to be unequal and the freedom to be different.
41:58I believe you have a saying in the Middle West. Don't cut down the tall poppies. Let them rather grow tall.
42:10I would say let our children grow tall, and some taller than others, if they have the ability in them to do so.
42:18Mrs. Thatcher didn't believe in inequality so much as equality of opportunity.
42:31She believed in opening up opportunity, but the result of that would be a degree of inequality.
42:40Inequality is the natural product of society that is dynamic.
42:45Inequality is the natural product of society.
42:48What was rare about Margaret Thatcher was that for the first time, certainly post-war,
42:56maybe in history, the Conservative Party became an ideological party.
43:04The ideas seemed to be such a break with convention that they either would not be
43:13accepted and believed, or they would be embraced by a confused public living through a time of economic turmoil.
43:28Lots of what she was saying felt very controversial at the time. There was sort of shock and horror.
43:34But whether you look at racehorses or racing motorcars, all the facts are in favour of competition and selection.
43:49She was the most right-wing leader of the Conservative Party that we'd had for a very, very long time.
43:54She was a vigorous, very opinionated reformer, but she really did have to address how she was going to be a national vote-winning personality.
44:06This year, 1978, British industry has done even worse than it did during the three-day week itself.
44:18The pound plummeted to its lowest level against most foreign currencies.
44:22There's a forecast that three million people will be unemployed by 19...
44:27BBC Radio News at 12 o'clock.
44:30Sometime before October 1979, there has to be a general election.
44:34Hello, I'm not just as three and I'm doing a short political survey in the Syria. Would you mind if I ask you one or two quick questions?
44:41And with all the uncertainty at Westminster, that election could still be as early as this autumn.
44:46Well, first of all, well, it won't take a moment. If there were a general election tomorrow, which party would you vote for?
44:57During 1978, despite the economic problems, we thought that it was quite possible that if Callaghan went for an election, that he would just about make it.
45:12How good a job do you feel the party leaders are doing at the moment? First of all, James Callaghan.
45:19Fantastic. Very good under the circumstances.
45:22I don't think I required any persuading that she, Thatcher, as a woman, was capable of doing the job as Prime Minister.
45:32My reservations, such as they were, were, am I capable of persuading the electorate of that?
45:43Which is a different thing.
45:45Mrs Thatcher's election headquarters.
45:52The man she appointed her publicity director, Gordon Rees, has been described as her Svengali or her Lady Falkander, a flamboyant former television producer with a penchant for large cigars and good champagne.
46:05He believes that what will decide the election is what they call the Thatcher factor.
46:12In other words, how the voters react to the prospect of the first woman Prime Minister.
46:20Gordon Rees was a fascinating figure of very limited stature. He looked a bit like Ronnie Corbett.
46:26Gordon Rees arranged private opinion polls testing the market for Margaret Thatcher. The thing that people most disliked about her was her voice, that it was too shrill, too harsh.
46:43And Gordon Rees arranged for her to have humming lessons at the National Theatre, and I asked her about it.
46:50How important has the advice of Gordon Rees been in the way you've presented yourself?
46:56Do you know, I think he's consulted me, not I him.
47:03I think it's always been that way round.
47:06And it's said that Gordon Rees gave you humming lessons to improve the way you spoke.
47:10Humming lessons? I'm not a very good hummer.
47:13I just know that when you do get...
47:16I mean, your voice is much lower than it used to be.
47:18Yes, I'm not quite sure why.
47:22Only later on, she was prepared to admit how important Gordon Rees was.
47:28If you remember what you were doing before, you lit.
47:31Enough is enough.
47:33It's a lowering, not a raising.
47:35Enough is enough.
47:37No, it's enough.
47:39Enough is enough.
47:41That's it.
47:42No, it's enough.
47:43Here we go.
47:45To say to the government of the day, enough is enough.
47:51Gordon Rees taught her what kind of clothes to wear, that they should stop being as fussy and patterned as they were.
47:57She wouldn't change her opinions, which remained pretty solidly conventionally conservative, but she certainly was absolutely ready to change aspects of her appearance or of her clothing or whatever that will actually make her look more like a prime minister-in-waiting.
48:20Mr. Chairman, Mr. President, ladies and gentlemen, I stand before you tonight in my red star chiffon evening gown.
48:35My face softly made up and my fair hair gently waved.
48:53The Iron Lady of the Western World.
48:58When the Soviet paper called her the Iron Lady, she said that's terrible.
49:04Gordon Rees said, no, don't you understand?
49:07It's exactly what we want.
49:09It's that mixture of strength and femininity in one sentence.
49:15Be proud of being the Iron Lady.
49:17Yes, if that's how they wish to interpret my defence of values and freedoms fundamental to our way of life.
49:25Yes, I am an Iron Lady.
49:28I think all the time she was maturing, I think her confidence was growing.
49:35People were beginning to look at her slightly differently, not just as the leader of the opposition, leader of the Tory party, but as a potential prime minister.
49:48It was clear that there was a chance of power coming to her.
49:58We were young and go ahead and in 78, Gordon Rees came in and he interviewed us and we thought, yeah, this could be interesting, seriously interesting.
50:16Mrs Thatcher was clear that political campaigns are a highly adversarial activity.
50:30This is not a world for the squeamish or the faint hearted.
50:37This is a world in which you will hit or be hit.
50:40Mr Healy and Mr Callaghan, who dare to lecture us about prices, have themselves put prices up by over a hundred percent and food prices by even more than that.
50:51Our approach certainly was hit first, hit hard, keep on hitting.
51:00My deputy, Andrew, he wrote the poster and I remember Gordon seeing it and jumping up and down and running up and down the corridor saying, Labour will hate this.
51:08Mrs Thatcher was a bit curious. She wouldn't know why Labour was bigger on the poster than the Conservatives were.
51:21But we explained it to her and being a good client, she said, OK.
51:28Well, that's lunchtime news. Our next news is at 5.40. Now let's have a look at that freezing weather with Jack Scott.
51:33Tonight, quite a cold night everywhere, a frost everywhere, and the snow showers mostly around the coast, some of them up on the hills in the north, and the sleet and snow working its way further south until quite late in the night.
51:45Britain's growing industrial crisis. Tens of thousands of workers have already been laid off as the lorry drivers dispute hits the flow of raw materials.
52:10Motorists have been queuing at petrol stations all over the northeast, desperately trying to fill up with the little fuel that's left.
52:23During what's become known as the winter of discontent, the whole country seeming to go to hell in a handcart, or actually the handcart not turning up because there was a strike.
52:34There were strong feelings that Margaret Thatcher should put the boot in.
52:41We thought that she should actually make a speech which offered support, that took a much more national approach.
52:50It took quite a lot of time to persuade her. But once she was persuaded, she did it and did it extremely well.
53:00There now follows a party political broadcast by the Conservative Party.
53:04Yes, technically this is a party political broadcast on behalf of the Conservative Party. But tonight I don't propose to use the time to make party political points. I don't think you'd want me to do so. The crisis that our country faces is too serious for that.
53:21Berwick Street Market in central London. This 12 foot high pile is part of two weeks rubbish just from the market, piled outside because of the dustman's indefinite strike.
53:33Squares as famous as Leicester Square have been transformed into special dumps.
53:38If Callaghan went for an election, I was increasingly confident that we were going to win. The government had been in a corner. It was a tatty, burnt out government. And I was confident we were going to win.
53:55Even to the extent of wondering what part I was going to have in the government that would follow.
54:00Good evening. I've asked Her Majesty the Queen to dissolve this parliament and she has agreed to do so. A general election for a new parliament will therefore now be held.
54:15She's on the road now. Look, she's coming towards us now. There's Mr. Thompson at back of her.
54:22Well, I don't know. In with glasses, aren't she? Yes, she is. Look, can you see her now? Look, she couldn't get in front of her. I don't like to point. There she is. No, I have found you. Oh, yes, I have. I found her.
54:41The person who was elected leader of the opposition was a kind of startling accident.
54:47The woman who became elected prime minister was ready to be prime minister.
55:04Why did you say that you will not be given another chance if you lose the election?
55:08Oh, there's only one chance in life for women. It is the law of life.
55:12I just hope that they will take me as I am for what I can do, not as man or woman, but as a personality who has an absolute passion for getting things right for Britain.
55:27I can't bear Britain in decline. I just can't. We who either defeated or rescued half Europe, who kept half Europe free when otherwise it would be in chains.
55:38And look at us now. I just hope they'll look at that and say, does it matter whether it's a man or a woman? Isn't it just best to get it right?
55:48Looking around the country, we hadn't got the power, the bite or the prestige we had in the past.
56:09It was a terrible feeling.
56:18I don't think Margaret Thatcher wanted to restore the past.
56:23What she sought to do and did quite successfully is to invoke an imagined past.
56:30It is a strong and effective appeal.
56:31I travelled a great deal in my flying career and I'd seen the success of countries like Australia and New Zealand.
56:39Seen the marks of the British Empire for good and ill in India.
56:48The Industrial Revolution. The Industrial Revolution. The Industrial Revolution was here in England and it was that sense of change that we had to pick up again.
57:13It was an exciting prospect.
57:20Britain's at a turning point. People will choose either to continue our lonely road towards socialism and poverty or they will choose to turn again towards the free world of the Western democracies before it is too late.
57:37The public wanted to bring this chaos to an end but as usual the public didn't want to change anything.
57:49Of course we are going to be very friendly in our dealings with the trade unions because most of the public thought the trade unions were more powerful than governments and would have been hesitant to vote for us if we thought we were going to have a fight with them.
58:08Labour's socialism has failed and today it is the Conservative Party that speaks for the ideals and hopes of the people of Britain.
58:16The manifesto didn't say, oh we're going back to fiscal discipline and proper market economy. It was terribly, terribly restrained.
58:28In the run-up to the election there was no inkling of the Thatcher Revolution which was to come.
58:36And a very British revolution continues next Monday at nine.
58:51But tomorrow at nine, former Labour spokesman Alistair Campbell talks candidly about his battle with mental health in Depression and Me.
59:10But stay with us as JR himself, Larry Hagman talks fame, Pac-Man and jumpsuits. It can only be I Love 1980. Next.
59:171980. Next.
Comments