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00:00the female voice can be many things it's not just this beautiful pop voice and beauty can be many

00:06things you know it's like it's that kind of dialogue and that that that's what i'm interested

00:10in referencing so uh you played at union chapel last night this beautiful church anyone who doesn't

00:20know it it's backdropped by this beautiful stained glass and jamie played it like a solo set with

00:27these kind of like vaporous utopian vocals uh it seems very suited to you you mentioned earlier

00:34that you have a church set when i was really young a lot of what i did was sing in churches

00:39so um it's something i'm familiar with i'd say like there's um yeah maybe like an ancient

00:48mist to the sound that i'm experiencing and trying to create when i'm in those spaces but yeah it's

00:55very choral i kind of like take out more of the lower end kind of like kick drums and that kind

01:02of those elements and make it a bit more textural and then yeah just like super choral lots and lots

01:08of layers of vocals so there's this lineage from the choral music that you performed when you were a

01:15kid like how young are we talking when did you get started in in music broadly i understand you played

01:20a bit of violin as well i honestly i can't fully recall like i was a child um i started playing

01:26violin when i was five um so i got like the smallest violin i mean the tiniest violin ever um to play uh

01:36it was like an eighth uh they do like eighth quarter anyways um it was like that big and then i started

01:43singing around the same time i was in choirs um i did this like young people's choir in new york city

01:50um which was amazing we had to sing in like carnegie hall and like tons of churches all over the city

01:55so that was when i was like uh yeah like from when i was eight until when i was like 13 i think i did that

02:03did you feel like you were learning music as a discipline or did it already feel creative or like a

02:08form of self-expression at that point it was always a form of self-expression for me definitely like i

02:15just wanted to find spaces to sing really like and any space that was i was looking for so i was in

02:22acapella groups too i was writing music on my own and and doing like open mics and um yeah kind of found

02:29myself in a lot of different scenes but all of it was really just coming from this like drive and

02:35passion to want to sing and be around others who shared it um shared that passion when you say

02:41acapella groups what kind of thing are we talking about um like when you sing uh all in acapella

02:50no i i was in actually like a jazzy one um and yeah we were called the wild scats

02:57i gotta know more actually it's not embarrassing i'm owning up to this um we did scat at times

03:05um and it was fun um but yeah that was like when i was in high school um again yeah i just like

03:12wanted to find groups of people to sing with it was my favorite thing and yeah i ended up finding

03:17someone around that time who um had a recording studio and then i was writing songs on guitar and

03:25then that kind of opened up this whole other world of learning how to produce because he was using pro

03:31tools and kind of like learned how to use pro tools through recording my songs with him in his

03:37studio so yeah that was a whole other i think this will thread us back to friend eventually but i'm

03:42really curious how learning production changed your relationship with your voice and how you use your

03:48voice when i was young and i was writing songs when you're singing playing guitar writing songs this way

03:53which is how i approach songwriting for a very long time it's pretty linear it's kind of you know

03:59you're just writing the chords down you're trying things out but you're writing lyrics down and it's

04:05very um yeah it's it's slow and it's over time um and you're kind of moving forward with production

04:15it's really transformed the way i approach songwriting just because the editing aspect of everything in

04:21the doll like i i just can chop and piece everything i mean my favorite thing about it is that

04:26the first feeling like i'll get like an idea down and then i'll know okay i want to put vocals on it

04:33now like i can feel the vocals now and it can be just like a synth line or a guitar line or something

04:39um really simple like one track or two tracks um you know like a small beat and then you put that

04:46first or second um vocal line down and like those are usually like the most um sincere like rawest

04:55kind of form of emotion that capturing those moments is so important for me i'll limit myself

05:01to like seven or like six takes but oftentimes a lot of what i'm using is in those first two takes

05:08i'll take those first lines and then i'll edit them and then this is where the production is really

05:15like played such a role in songwriting is that i'll edit those lines and create those melodies and

05:20structure those melodies from those kind of just improvisations that i was doing and then from

05:25there like really flush things out and kind of sample myself i mean it is kind of like sampling

05:31yourself it was super interesting to me to learn that you had been using your voice throughout your

05:39life because the force of uh hearing you sing on friend was kind of like as if it was this

05:47voice that had been waiting to be unleashed like breaking out on some of these really euphoric

05:52songs with like the heavy percussion which hasn't always been like as prominent in your records up

05:58to now i was writing um another album before this and i'd finished that record it's called random girl

06:07that was extremely like just very sound designy i was really interested in kind of like pushing

06:12the limits and learning um sound design and and i've gotten really into like modular synthesizers

06:19and i was like building my synth out and like getting really like heady into that world and

06:23wanting to create these like soundscapes and i was also it was a bit like darker of a moment for me i was

06:30kind of like extracting um some some kind of like emotional things that were a bit harder a bit harder

06:38edged i guess and for that the voice is always in there i just wanted to like kind of start with

06:45that that the voice has always been really present it's just been present in a very different way than

06:50it is in this record and so in that record random girl which was the record previous to friend um my

06:58voice was completely in every single track in many many many many many layers but you know i was

07:06putting it through effects i recorded that actually in a church one of the tracks i recorded

07:11with like eight mics and like with a like a i think it was like a 12 second reverb tail like crazy so it's

07:19all in that sound very texturally i was really building and this is the way i approach songwriting

07:25and and production is i really like like to build layers and then i'll kind of like shave things down

07:31and kind of mold it um maybe like i don't know um a marble like sculptor i realized that i'd wanted to

07:41kind of just like make things a bit more um not less dynamic but just give space for the voice um and

07:52give space for a voice that was kind of a voice that i had been working with much earlier on in my

07:58songwriting which um my you know in my like teenage years almost like which was just relating to me

08:05writing songs on guitar so i knew writing this next record or friend the record that just came out i

08:11wanted the guitar to be a through line for the whole for the whole record and that i wanted the vocals to

08:17be you know more legible i wanted there to be more song structure and to play with song structure um

08:24so all these things are apparent and what i was kind of aiming towards for it you said something

08:30really interesting in an interview with truants around this record about how the classical pop

08:37voice is trying to get rid of the association with the body which kind of like blew my mind a little

08:46bit because i've always thought of a unique thing about kind of dream pop and ethereal vocals as

08:52as them having this sense of like transcending the human form and becoming something vaporous but you

08:59made me rethink it because it's true pop music's doing that too right is trying to leave behind the

09:04human body and like uh get past the limitations of it and kind of deny its existence whereas you were

09:11talking about having a different approach specifically with like the stethoscope recording technique

09:16yeah again this is on my previous record i was really interested in creating like abject sounds and

09:23i was yeah like philosophically conceptually thinking about things like that where yeah classical music

09:30aims to kind of like create this purity and sometimes that purity i find is like problematic um and i was

09:41trying to find yeah the body in the voice more so yeah i created this stethoscope microphone which is

09:48my mom's a doctor so i actually just borrowed her stethoscope i was like can i borrow that and she um

09:53she let me and i made this little like electric mic that i put at the end of it so it just like

09:58amplifies uh the stethoscope amplifies it and then the mic takes the signal what it's doing is it's

10:03amplifying the vibrations in your throat um so it's like a hum but like from the inside um and so you can

10:10sing and sometimes i'll actually have it i'll hold it like here and then also be singing with a mic

10:17and it creates kind of like a double vocal that's really nice like a body and then this other vocal

10:23but um yeah the like purity i was talking about with the voice that was something that i came across

10:28when i was doing kind of choir singing and like um applying to be in choirs there's like a specific

10:34way you have to sing and i was always kind of like pushing up against it i was also studying a bit of

10:39jazz um vocals when i was younger and i really wanted to push that more and the the problem i

10:46found with um like applications to these choirs is that they didn't want to hear you like because

10:52you're supposed to be in a big groove it's very specific how your voice is supposed to sound and

10:58everyone's supposed to really become one voice which is beautiful if you get to be a part of that

11:03kind of thing it's amazing but um yeah that that also upset me because i was wanting to be like

11:09a little different yeah but also like beyond wanting your own voice to be heard i feel like

11:15there's something important about the idea of reconnecting the kind of ethereal voice with the

11:21like organic matter of the body and that's part of what's sort of the problem with the this like

11:28purity test of like erasing yourself in the voice yeah um i don't know is there like

11:34some kind of like deeper um spiritual or like moral thing there about about like not aiming for

11:48purity not trying to like yeah i mean i think it comes from like a feminist desire ultimately like

11:54this desire to remind people that like you know the female voice can be many things it's not just

12:00this beautiful pop voice and beauty can be many things you know it's like it's that kind of dialogue

12:06and that that that's what i'm interested in referencing um and i think there's ways to do that

12:13also by creating like cyborg cyborg voices and what i'm doing with like putting my voice through

12:21you know a granular synth or um you know various effects like you know as a producer like your

12:28effects chain is like kind of what it is and like there's a lot of effects going into what i'm doing

12:33so all of that is just like challenging it as well um and it's endless it's endless what you can do

12:39the way that you use production is also so tactile i feel sometimes like i feel like certain frequencies

12:47that you're using are touching like parts of my body when i listen to your music um like how are you

12:52using the i don't know like different elements of production and different frequencies to not just

13:00like fill out the song but also to kind of reach beyond the song and into the tactile space in the

13:05listener's mind when i'm writing a song firstly what i care about is the emotional aspect of it and

13:12like that's kind of what i was talking about earlier with vocal takes and and trying to capture that um

13:18the emotion and kind of like the soul um of the song and then when i'm kind of producing and filling

13:25things out which is like in later steps then i'm thinking about just like you know just the frequency

13:31and the range we need some kind of crispy moments because those crispy moments um kind of bring attention

13:39what higher frequencies do to a brain is it actually like causes like an alert and like

13:44makes you pay more attention um and then lower frequencies like subier frequencies this is like

13:51you know hitting the body so like thinking about that like how is that going to like affect you know not

13:56in every space obviously but in maybe a club space this would you know really like make would hit you in

14:05your stomach and kind of like make you feel something there kind of vibrationally um so i think it's

14:12important to fill out the stereo field i think about that and all the reasons everything having a place

14:18um not just for the sake of it but like everything having an intentional like place i think another way

14:25that you tell a story through sounds is references it can be like references to kind of

14:32evoking everyday things or just to different genres uh i know that there's like you've spoken about

14:39having elements of hip-hop and jazz and jungle on the record um the jungle is like very in your face

14:47when it's there and it's great um like what what like how are you using references to i don't know

14:54like engage with the thinking part of us as we hear the record in addition to the bodily stuff that

15:01the production is doing yeah i mean definitely that's like the fun part about making music also

15:07is just like yeah there's this i mean what nick was saying it's like we're just you know exposed to a

15:13lot now and it's like can be overwhelming but i think like we all know as like musicians like what

15:19touches us and it's like genre list like i just like moods i like different moods and pulling from

15:26different genres um and kind of combining things is just creating a narrative for me and it's like

15:33you know like what if this like hip-hop thing was like combined with this you know shoegaze you know

15:39it's like it's just fun it's fun to do those to to create those combinations and see where it takes

15:44you i mean it's like playing with familiarity basically um and that's really new it's creating

15:52something new do we have time for audience question great uh anyone so something that just

16:01really struck me and reminded me of something you're talking about like the kind of like the the

16:06cyborg manipulation of your voice it reminded me of um donna harroway's like cyborg manifesto

16:13which maybe you know definitely yeah so basically i'm wondering if basically like how that whole like

16:23idea of like the feminist cyborg manifesto actually like inspires you and your music creation or if it

16:31like how it manifests for you it just inspired me as a human more than anything but um yeah with music

16:42like i think i think what i've talked about before is how it plays out in an obvious way but yeah the

16:48manifesto that and then also like a lot of like judith butler's work as well um about like you know

16:56gender politics and all that has really played a role in how i see myself as a person um and i think

17:05blurring those lines is ultimately like where it plays the role and this idea of like creating spaces

17:12that aren't super didactic and super um obvious but can be obvious on multiple levels and also can

17:22change through time so that's why again like my approach is like layered and all these layers have

17:29you know lots of details in them and i think about all those details being important because

17:35if you listen to it over and over again another detail emerges or you're in a different perspective

17:40another detail emerges and i think that's like the kind of stuff that i want to create is something

17:45that uh can live multiple lives and kind of like operate on different levels and can also just reach

17:55different people at different times um and that's i think the like unfixity of um a lot of that like

18:03feminist theory is is what i yeah really adhere to you really let songs build and there's there you

18:10have songs in your catalog that you know go seven eight minutes long and i'm wondering like when do you

18:15know when a song is complete you just know i have people asking this all the time i'm like i just know

18:24i i think um yeah i i honestly just know i i i think that some songs that have been longer songs

18:34for me um it's funny enough have started as like a 20 second loop but i can tell immediately in that

18:4220 second loop that this could go on for a really long time you know like you can hear a whole world

18:47in it and you're like this can just keep going i mean obviously you have to cap it i mean villalobos

18:52doesn't cap his song so i don't know maybe you don't have to cap him he's like 40 minutes but like

18:57yeah i i think with pop music that i'm making um i feel the importance is to be immersed like it's an

19:09immersive experience and i think that you know a lot of pop music that's like two and a half minutes

19:16long um it's about like here's the hook like it's giving it to you like really quickly

19:22and obviously and like you got it okay i got it now i want to listen to it again that's the point

19:27right but for me it's like i want to always play with like i want to give you everything i can right

19:33now and you might want to still listen to it again but i want to just feel like the satisfaction

19:38um in myself like for myself but also for the listener but yeah i think ultimately like you just

19:43kind of can tell i can kind of tell when a song has like a longer kind of tail to it and a world

19:52to build on you spoke a little bit earlier about how like layering your own like voice and like

19:59experimenting with that like influences your sound i was just curious about what actually

20:05is kind of like the number one thing for you that allows you to kind of keep the personality of

20:11james k and also keep it like fun and novel i guess it's a question sometimes i get scared of

20:17when people are like what's inspiring you what are you listening to because the truth is is that i

20:23don't listen to a lot of albums these days i think that my relationship to like

20:33listening um changed a lot when i started djing which was about 15 years ago so it's been

20:41it's been a minute so my approach to music is really like kind of like i'm like well they call

20:49them diggers but i'm like yeah i'm like in a cave kind of like searching for things i'm searching for

20:54sounds i'm searching for feelings i'm searching for voices i'm searching and all of those things on my

21:01journey of like digging and searching for these things is um just pooled into what i want to then

21:11you know incorporate and i think that's what's really beautiful because the core of what i'm

21:15doing is starting from my voice and always has started from this like songwriting place and that

21:21was you know so inspired by things that i grew up with listening to like i listened to a lot of blues

21:27when i was young i listened to a lot of folk music rock music my parents are deadheads so like

21:32my first shows that i went to like they're all grateful dead shows um so rock was like a big part

21:39of my like childhood um and maybe that's you know why i chose guitar and the relationship to guitar was

21:46important to me but um yeah i i think that like i'm inspired by also just the the communities that

21:54i'm a part of i think that's an important aspect um of what i'm doing and i i think being around

22:00musicians and being around artists being around creative people um just and and yeah and nature

22:07all these things pull pull into one big inspiration what i loved about uh friend was how it deals with

22:16retrofuturism and how it crafts a sound that's completely yours and personal but it digs back

22:22into obviously all these genres that you're listening to without it being cliche no i think that

22:27it's pretty apt for what i do i think that there is nostalgia in what i'm doing and i i'm aware of

22:37that and i have been aware of that for a long time it's been a part of my practice for a really long

22:42time um a lot of my early work as a visual artist was like completely about this nostalgia of like kind

22:50of like my childhood um and creating and like kind of the point where like identity was created in my

22:56childhood so something i've it's just been a part of my work i think what i care about is to still make

23:03things contemporary and doing that through production and being really like inspired by

23:09you know new production techniques is like what keeps things contemporary i think also it keeps

23:15things contemporary is you because you're living in the present and like really being honest with

23:23yourself and making honest work really i think is ultimately what makes something contemporary because

23:28the decisions that you make in that honest space um are gonna like challenge you and push you to

23:36say like oh this kind of sounds a little too much like something i've already heard like how can i make it a

23:41little different how can i like make it feel familiar but also feel like something new and i think that

23:48ultimately makes something timeless kind of writing that line uh thank you for the great questions thank

23:55you james k thank you good night

Pitchfork Talks With james K: "Friend," Cyborgs, & Vocal Modification

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