- 2 weeks ago
French electronic artist Oklou (Marylou Mayniel) sits down with Pitchfork at Rough Trade NYC for a wide-ranging conversation with Mano Sundaresan, detailing the creative process behind her critically acclaimed debut album "Choke Enough," the unique challenge of balancing new motherhood with her music career, and her collaboration with FKA twigs on the track "Viscus," reflecting on their creative synergy and what it's like working with one of experimental pop's most visionary artists.
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MusicTranscript
00:00Are you still in the trenches of SoundCloud these days?
00:04When did you laugh?
00:08In Pitchfork editor Anna Gatza's excellent cover story,
00:11on OKLoo, Anna described Chilkhanouf as, quote,
00:14an enchanted forest of haptic feedback,
00:17a mirror where we observe Maniel's character
00:19confronting dilemmas that await her on the road to destiny.
00:22It's one of my albums of the year.
00:24It's probably one of yours.
00:25And I'm so happy to welcome the artist behind it,
00:28Pitchfork's new cover star, OKLoo.
00:38How's it going?
00:39I'm OK. How are you?
00:40I'm good. I'm good. It's been a while.
00:43How's tour been so far? You're on tour right now.
00:46It's been great. I've done two shows so far.
00:49And in Canada, which was really nice, actually.
00:54Fall is magnificent, of course.
00:56But also, I'm touring with the baby, so it's...
01:00Oh my goodness, yeah.
01:01It's sports.
01:02What's it been like just juggling, you know,
01:04being a new mother and touring all throughout the country?
01:08So far, we only have two shows.
01:12So it's the beginning of the experience, I'd say.
01:15Yeah.
01:15But, I mean, I was discussing it with my manager just now.
01:21It's a learning situation.
01:24So, you know, I'll have other shows in the future,
01:28other tours and, you know, experiences.
01:31Then you adapt.
01:33I know the baby is only, what, a few months old?
01:36Yeah, he's four months.
01:37Four months old?
01:38Is there any chance he has a favorite song of yours or in general?
01:42I don't know.
01:43Well, the problem is, like, he can't even say if he's sick of it, you know?
01:47Like, he's hurting so much in my belly also.
01:50He must be like, ah, enough.
01:53I feel like when I talk to people about your music this year,
01:56it isn't just, like, one song they talk about.
01:57They talk about the whole album, Choke Enough.
02:00And that's kind of rare these days.
02:02You know, people, you know, it's oftentimes,
02:05it's a very, like, you know, TikTok-driven, you know,
02:07viral song era feel.
02:09And this is so refreshing in that sense.
02:12What do you sort of hear in Choke Enough these days
02:15that maybe surprises you or, you know,
02:18you didn't really pay attention to when you were recording it?
02:21When I listen to my own stuff, oh, it's been a while.
02:24Really?
02:25That I didn't, well, yeah.
02:27I actually miss listening to music lately.
02:31But, you know, these activities where you take time
02:35to just zone in your little zone, it's been a while for me.
02:42But so the album, I listen to it when I play the songs.
02:48But the listening experience, yeah, it's been too long for me
02:54to be able to say if I have new feelings,
02:59if I can hear new things while listening to the music,
03:03I wouldn't be able.
03:04The live versions, though, it's interesting in that sense
03:08because we have to rework the songs for it,
03:11like, in order to get the show interesting and what's not.
03:18But the songs from the album, it's been a while.
03:23Yeah.
03:24When you're reworking these songs for tour,
03:26what's, like, the biggest challenge with that?
03:28In my head, these are very, you know, quiet, small-sounding songs.
03:31And I'm guessing you're trying to expand that a little bit, right?
03:35I'm trying to expand that, but not that much also
03:39because it talks about, for me, it's about, like, my performance
03:45and what I want to give to people.
03:48And I've been questioning that for years.
03:53I've been touring for a while, you know,
03:55for more than 10 years or so with other projects.
04:00And I've always been trying to actually know
04:04what I wanted to do on stage.
04:08Do I want to be a dancer?
04:10Do I want to play instruments?
04:12Do I want to be the singer?
04:14And I really, still up to this day,
04:17sometimes struggle to know where I want to go.
04:21Maybe I should just work with somebody.
04:23That would be easier.
04:25But it's also interesting to find out by myself, of course.
04:29I think in an interview with A.G. Cook a while ago,
04:31you were talking about how you were trying really hard
04:34to make Tokenoff a drumless album.
04:37And obviously, you know, it isn't quite that,
04:40but it really gets close.
04:42And what I really love about that is how that, like,
04:45minimalism sort of just really magnifies
04:49the component parts of the different songs.
04:50Like, all the little trumpet parts,
04:55and the weird, like, the squiggles of synth,
04:58and these almost MIDI-sounding instruments at times.
05:02It's also, like, there are moments that, you know,
05:04in a bigger-sounding album wouldn't hit the same.
05:07And I guess my question is,
05:09like, what interests you about minimalism
05:12and just sort of shrinking down music in this way?
05:17That's also a very interesting question.
05:19I hope I'm going to have an interesting answer.
05:22I guess, as a listener,
05:24and not just, it's not just music,
05:26it's everything, actually.
05:27It's movies,
05:29it's any form of art.
05:33And not just art,
05:35it's also, I don't know,
05:36maybe the seasons,
05:38maybe in the nature.
05:39I don't need, like,
05:41a lot of things happening
05:42for it to be striking me.
05:45And actually, I get more striken,
05:49Do you say that?
05:51More striken.
05:51More striken.
05:51More striken.
05:53Struck, stroke, stroke, stroke.
05:55By one single element
05:57that is powerful enough
06:00to take all my attention.
06:03And when I listen to music,
06:05I am very impressed
06:10and touched by music
06:14that doesn't need much.
06:17It can be just,
06:18if the sound is the good one
06:22and the melody
06:23is the good melody
06:27to go with that sound,
06:28it can be enough
06:30to make a marvelous song.
06:35Maybe it comes from
06:36also listening to a lot of pieces
06:39throughout my life
06:43in classical
06:44when there is just a piano playing
06:46and, you know,
06:48there is music
06:50with just a piano playing
06:51that I thought
06:52was really boring.
06:54And some of them,
06:56for a reason,
06:57was extremely touching to me.
07:02And I think,
07:04unconsciously,
07:05I've always been interested
07:06to try to understand why.
07:09I've always been interested
07:10in trying to understand
07:12why this piano piece
07:14and not this one
07:15is, for me,
07:17is better and more touching.
07:19It's not a big mystery,
07:21like,
07:22melodies are,
07:24there are good melodies
07:25and bad melodies.
07:26But I think,
07:27pretty early on,
07:28I understood
07:29that you don't need much
07:30to, you know,
07:32to make great content.
07:35Do you know that guy?
07:36What's his name?
07:37I think it was
07:39a friend of Grimes
07:41a while ago
07:43from Quebec.
07:46Dion.
07:47Yeah.
07:48He made these albums,
07:50thank you,
07:50he made these albums,
07:51Music for Keyboards.
07:53And one of them,
07:54because I think
07:55there are several ones,
07:56it's just,
07:56he chose,
07:57it's just like
07:58video games,
07:59the soundtrack,
07:59he chose one sound
08:01and he makes
08:02a whole album with it
08:03and it's fucking amazing.
08:05It's a moment of rest,
08:08you know.
08:08It's not tiring the brain,
08:11it's not too much information.
08:13Yeah.
08:13I think it's really important,
08:14actually.
08:15Yeah,
08:15it's a moment of rest,
08:16but also I think
08:17on your album,
08:18there's so much like
08:19moments of movement
08:20and like dance music
08:21straight up
08:22and I mean,
08:23I think about
08:23how like Obvious
08:25and even Viscous
08:26off the Deluxe,
08:27they're both almost
08:28like dance hall songs,
08:29like they have that
08:29like really,
08:30that groove to them,
08:31that bounce.
08:31I really didn't try
08:32to do that with Chokin' Off.
08:34Really?
08:34Yeah, yeah.
08:35I mean,
08:36try to do Dion with him.
08:37Yeah.
08:38It's interesting like
08:39that contrast of like,
08:41you know,
08:41dance music with
08:42this like stark minimalism,
08:44that's really cool.
08:45Well,
08:46I think even
08:47with the more dancey stuff,
08:50let's take,
08:51well,
08:51Chokin' Off
08:52is not the track.
08:54There could be a debate
08:55on whether it's
08:56a dance track or not.
08:57Yeah.
08:57I don't think it is,
08:59but it's calling for it.
09:01It's the whole,
09:02I think it's,
09:03it's the whole purpose
09:04of this song for me.
09:06It's the kind of
09:06middle ground
09:07that is happening
09:09and the tension
09:09and that you,
09:12that you can feel.
09:13I mean,
09:13you guys have heard
09:14Viscous,
09:15that song's great,
09:16with Twigs.
09:18Do you have a quick story
09:19maybe about
09:19working with Twigs
09:20on that,
09:21how that came to be?
09:22so I think
09:25the song,
09:27it's nothing,
09:28nothing very sexy
09:32about the origin
09:33of the collab,
09:34but the song's been sent
09:35to another artist
09:37and she didn't want
09:38to do it.
09:40And I think,
09:41but at the same,
09:42I don't know,
09:42you should ask my manager
09:44actually,
09:45about the origin
09:47of the,
09:48but I know
09:50that she answered,
09:51she was really excited
09:52to work with me
09:54and Daniela,
09:54and I was so,
09:56obviously,
09:56extremely grateful.
09:58The Mary Lou
09:59from 12 years ago
10:00would have,
10:02I've discovered her
10:04at the same time
10:05as Arca
10:06because I was listening
10:08to her EP
10:10at the time
10:10and Arca's
10:12first mixtape,
10:15E, E, E, E, E,
10:16crazy, right?
10:19That music
10:20at the time
10:21was so mind-blowing.
10:24And yeah,
10:25so anyway,
10:26I was really happy
10:27and she,
10:28because I was
10:29very much
10:30in postpartum,
10:31I couldn't
10:32meet with her
10:33in the studio,
10:34but she recorded
10:36her part
10:36in London
10:38with Danny
10:38and that's how
10:41we worked,
10:41but we were not
10:42in the studio together.
10:43But you did make
10:44the video happen,
10:44though,
10:45that was sick.
10:46We did,
10:46yeah.
10:47Yeah.
10:47Yeah.
10:48Great video.
10:48Amazing video.
10:50All right.
10:51I want to play
10:52what I think
10:53is my favorite song
10:54off the Deluxe,
10:55which I don't know
10:57if this might be surprising.
10:58I don't know,
10:58maybe not.
10:59But anyways.
11:03If you didn't recognize
11:04that that's a cover
11:05of the Phish song
11:06by Underscores
11:07that you did,
11:10can you talk a little
11:11about your relationship
11:11to Underscores?
11:12Because when I actually
11:13interviewed Underscores
11:14a few months ago,
11:15she had mentioned
11:16that I think
11:17you had reached out
11:18to her saying
11:19you love that song
11:19so much.
11:20I think I discovered
11:24her work,
11:25I think it was maybe
11:26in 2022.
11:28She was doing very
11:29more clubby music
11:32at the time.
11:33She was working with
11:34the,
11:35I don't remember,
11:36she was a friend
11:37with Skrillex,
11:39maybe,
11:39I don't know.
11:39I don't remember exactly.
11:41She was on SoundCloud
11:43doing stuff with
11:43Antelle, Antelle, Antelle.
11:45And I thought
11:46to myself,
11:48she is good.
11:50No, because
11:50I just,
11:51I just,
11:52I did my researches
11:54and I understand
11:55that she was doing
11:56all by herself
11:56and that she was
11:58so young.
11:59But apart from
12:00the
12:01skills,
12:04I
12:04recognized
12:06a sense
12:07of
12:08the songwriting
12:09was
12:10terrific.
12:11And
12:12I've been following
12:13her ever since
12:14and her
12:16albums
12:17and this song
12:18for me is,
12:20you know,
12:20it makes me feel like
12:22when I listen to
12:23an old song
12:24from,
12:25you know,
12:26from the 70s
12:27and I feel like
12:28I live in a
12:28little cabin
12:30in the
12:31countryside.
12:32Yeah.
12:33I have the same
12:34feeling with
12:34Fish Song.
12:35Totally, yeah.
12:36Did you,
12:37I'm guessing you know
12:38what the song is about?
12:39Like you,
12:39like the story?
12:41Well,
12:41I have no
12:42idea.
12:44Oh, wow, okay.
12:45No, I really don't
12:46know.
12:46So, I might,
12:47okay, I might
12:48botch a detail
12:48through here,
12:49but I heard
12:50it's about
12:50like this
12:51sort of
12:52rare
12:52fish,
12:54like literally
12:55like a rare
12:55fish that,
12:56you know,
12:57scientists found
12:58in the Philippines
12:59and it died
13:01pretty quickly,
13:02but it was like
13:02this amazing,
13:03I want to say
13:04like yellowish
13:04color and
13:05yeah.
13:06Oh, it's a real story?
13:07It's literally
13:07about a fish.
13:08Oh, that's
13:11so cool.
13:12Yeah.
13:13Oh, that's,
13:14it makes me want
13:15to cry.
13:16That's so amazing.
13:18Yeah.
13:19That's why I was like,
13:20this is such a random
13:21song for you to cover,
13:21but also it sounds,
13:22you really,
13:23it sounds amazing.
13:24No, but like,
13:25like she took
13:26almost like a random
13:28scientific fact
13:30and she made a song
13:30out of it.
13:31Exactly, yeah.
13:32That's the goal.
13:33Is there like,
13:34you mentioned you
13:35found underscores
13:35in SoundCloud,
13:36is there,
13:36are you still
13:37in the trenches
13:38of SoundCloud
13:39these days?
13:41When do you laugh?
13:45Because it's,
13:46I'm not,
13:47but it's,
13:50yeah,
13:51I'm not because
13:52I don't even have,
13:54you know,
13:55it's one,
13:57maybe sad thing,
13:58but ever since
13:59my music's been
14:00on Spotify
14:01and stuff,
14:02I feel like,
14:03and even on YouTube,
14:04you know,
14:04I don't have control
14:05anymore on my content.
14:08Before I was like,
14:09very,
14:09very much minding
14:11like the hashtags
14:12and the,
14:14all the details
14:15that make your page
14:16what it is.
14:18And it's one thing
14:19that I miss
14:20in my career now
14:24is that I,
14:24I don't have the time
14:25to do these little
14:26details anymore.
14:27How do you discover
14:28music these days?
14:30Do I discover
14:32music these days?
14:34I don't discover
14:36that much music.
14:37I listen to
14:39the mixes
14:41from my friend
14:43Baba Malibu
14:45for the,
14:46United in Flames?
14:47Exactly.
14:49And because
14:50it's the music
14:51I want to listen to
14:52really.
14:53So,
14:54so yeah,
14:55I listen to her
14:56and I listen to
14:58Hats
14:59by the Blue Nile.
15:01Wow.
15:02You know this album?
15:03No,
15:03I'm not.
15:04Oh, you don't?
15:05I'm not, yeah, yeah.
15:06It's really good.
15:08When's it from?
15:08Tell me about it.
15:10Oh,
15:10I don't know much,
15:12I think.
15:12It's from the,
15:14the end of the 80s,
15:15I think.
15:16If somebody knows,
15:17you can correct me.
15:19But it's a band
15:20and the cover
15:23is extremely
15:25beautiful.
15:27What else
15:27can I say?
15:30Yeah,
15:30I'm on the spot.
15:32Yeah,
15:32I don't know.
15:33You should listen to it.
15:35I'll listen to that.
15:35Do we have time
15:37for questions
15:37from fans?
15:38You know what the
15:39trend of like
15:40special vinyls,
15:41like liquid filled
15:42vinyls and
15:43et cetera,
15:44or like
15:45vinyls that kind of
15:46move when they spin.
15:47Do you have any
15:48like what concept
15:50would you have
15:51for Choke Enough
15:52if you like did a deluxe
15:53on like a special
15:54type of vinyl?
15:55That's a very
15:56specific question
15:57and a very fun one.
15:59Maybe
15:59sparkles
16:01on the,
16:02on the,
16:03on the walls
16:04when it's playing.
16:06Like my,
16:07my hair on stage.
16:09Oh,
16:09cool.
16:10Spoiler.
16:11Yeah,
16:11I,
16:12like I imagine
16:14like a,
16:14like a watery vinyl
16:16just because like
16:17a Choke can,
16:17I don't know,
16:18at least when I
16:19listen to the album
16:19it kind of invokes
16:20like water
16:21and being underwater
16:22like sometimes
16:23the vocals kind of
16:24give that,
16:24you know,
16:25that dreamy vibe.
16:26So I was like,
16:27oh,
16:27maybe it'd be filled
16:28with like turquoise
16:29or,
16:30you know.
16:31It's a better idea
16:32actually.
16:34I take it.
16:35But I like your idea
16:36too.
16:37Thank you so much.
16:39You mentioned
16:40classical piano music
16:42inspiring your
16:43kind of minimalist
16:44approach
16:45to Choke-en-off.
16:46So just wondering
16:47like which composers,
16:48which pieces
16:49and also did you ever
16:50like figure out
16:51outside of the melody
16:52what like
16:54components of the songs
16:56really inspired you?
16:57Definitely.
16:59Debussy.
16:59Just him.
17:00No kidding.
17:02But mainly him actually.
17:03If you guys don't know
17:04Debussy,
17:05if you don't listen
17:06to classical music
17:07and you like my music,
17:08you will love his work.
17:09It's really,
17:11it's the best.
17:12But outside of the,
17:15let's say,
17:17the songwriting qualities,
17:19again,
17:20it's the sound
17:21of the instrument
17:22and what defines that
17:24it can be so many things
17:26from the choice
17:28of the musician
17:28at the beginning
17:29until the mastering
17:31at the end.
17:32Debussy,
17:32there was no mastering
17:33at the time,
17:34but the music
17:35that we can hear today.
17:38Indeed,
17:38you have like several versions
17:39of La Mer
17:41of Debussy
17:42on YouTube
17:43and all of them
17:45don't sound the same.
17:46It's the concept.
17:48And some of them
17:49are not good.
17:51But that's interesting
17:52because it's
17:54as important
17:55as the piece itself.
17:59But the choice
18:00of the instruments,
18:03the recording,
18:03and how,
18:08like the effects
18:08you put on the instruments,
18:10the way you mix it,
18:12obviously.
18:14So many,
18:15so many things.
18:15All these details,
18:16it's really,
18:18really,
18:18really important.
18:20Hey,
18:21thank you both
18:21and everyone
18:22for tonight.
18:23I think something
18:24we didn't touch on
18:25as much,
18:25but it's one of my
18:26favorite elements
18:27of the album
18:27is like the elements
18:30of childhood,
18:31nostalgia,
18:32and, you know,
18:34my favorite track
18:35is ICT,
18:36but that also
18:37like permeates,
18:38I think,
18:38the whole rest
18:39of the album.
18:40So just kind of
18:41wondering what
18:41that's inspired by
18:43and how you were able
18:44to kind of
18:45embed that
18:46in the album.
18:46Yeah,
18:48that's pretty much it.
18:50ICT specifically
18:51or the childhood?
18:53I think overall
18:53that's the one
18:54that stands out
18:54to me as the most obvious,
18:56but no pun intended.
18:58Yeah, yeah.
18:59I was like,
19:00the track,
19:00obviously.
19:01I think the childhood
19:04nostalgia
19:05is
19:06so
19:08always there
19:10with me
19:11that
19:12sometimes
19:13I'm trying,
19:14maybe I'm wrong,
19:15but sometimes
19:15I'm trying to,
19:17I'm like,
19:17okay,
19:17can you talk about
19:18something else maybe?
19:19To myself,
19:20you know,
19:20I'm like,
19:21you're boring.
19:22Actually,
19:23I don't think I should
19:24fight against it.
19:26But,
19:26and you know,
19:28I go my own way
19:30and I forget
19:30actually the core
19:31of the question.
19:34I guess like what
19:35it was inspired by,
19:37but it seems like
19:38it's just something
19:39by what you're saying
19:39that's important to you.
19:41Yeah.
19:41I guess did you
19:42intentionally,
19:43you know,
19:43try to weave that in?
19:46I think,
19:47I think
19:49I'm just so
19:50interested
19:51in
19:52the way
19:53children
19:54are
19:55appreciating
19:57life.
19:59Just by
20:00looking at them
20:01now
20:02that I'm
20:03an adult,
20:04but also
20:04remembering
20:05my own
20:06head
20:07and
20:07freedom
20:08from
20:09this
20:10moment
20:10of my life
20:11because I have
20:12a lot of
20:12memories
20:12from when I was
20:14really young.
20:15So,
20:16and it's
20:17all a happy
20:18memory
20:18and I was a happy
20:20child
20:20and very lucky
20:21to be surrounded
20:22with music
20:24and to go see
20:25shows
20:26and dance
20:27shows.
20:30The Irish thing,
20:31Lords of the Dance,
20:33the Irish dancers.
20:36I was like,
20:36that's going to be me
20:37one day.
20:38I was also
20:39lucky to have
20:40parents,
20:41especially my
20:41father,
20:42who would
20:42actually,
20:46I don't know
20:47how to say
20:48emerveillement
20:50in English,
20:52marvelous things.
20:54Yeah,
20:54yeah,
20:55marvelous.
20:55The beauty,
20:56the extreme beauty
20:57in simple things.
20:58Every time
20:59there was like
20:59a storm
21:02outside,
21:03we would go
21:04outside,
21:05let's see the
21:06storms,
21:06lightnings,
21:07wow.
21:08And,
21:08I don't know,
21:10the mini tornadoes
21:12in the countryside,
21:15a bass line
21:16in a random track
21:17on the radio,
21:18it was like,
21:18oh,
21:19the bass line,
21:19so good.
21:21It was like
21:22a short list
21:25of
21:25everything
21:28that's happening.
21:29Well,
21:29a storm
21:30is a big event,
21:31it's not just
21:32a simple,
21:32it's not like
21:33you eat a soup,
21:35but
21:35even the soup,
21:37you know,
21:37it's about,
21:38I think
21:39it's so important,
21:40sorry,
21:41I'm getting lost
21:42again,
21:42but it's interesting.
21:44And now that
21:44I have a kid,
21:45I really try
21:46to remember
21:47that to myself
21:48as a parent
21:50to stay
21:51amazed
21:52at
21:53as much
21:55things as I can
21:56because
21:56this child
21:57is watching me
21:57and if he
21:59sees me,
22:00be like,
22:01oh,
22:01look at this
22:02wall,
22:02do you see
22:03this blue,
22:04this blue is
22:04very special
22:05and he
22:06would remember
22:07that the same
22:08way I remember
22:08that with my
22:09father.
22:10I think it's
22:10really,
22:11really important.
22:12That's beautiful.
22:13Yeah,
22:13thank you so much.
22:14Yeah,
22:15thank you.
22:15I wanted to know
22:17about how did
22:18you visualize
22:19your sound
22:20and the album
22:21art and the
22:22colors and
22:22actually knowing
22:24more about
22:25the zine,
22:26like how did
22:27you enter
22:28this world
22:28visualizing
22:30what you
22:31were feeling
22:32and thinking
22:33in this
22:33music
22:34because I
22:35think
22:35the colors
22:37and the
22:38way the
22:38album cover
22:39is,
22:40it's special.
22:42So,
22:43the visual
22:44aspects of
22:45my works
22:45always is
22:46something I
22:49adore
22:50working on
22:51because it's
22:51kind of a
22:52vacation for me.
22:53it's like,
22:55oh,
22:55I can have
22:55fun now.
22:56Not that I
22:56don't have
22:57fun on the
22:57music,
22:57but obviously,
22:58you know,
22:59I'm a musician,
22:59it needs to
23:00be good.
23:01I have more
23:03pressure.
23:03I put more
23:04pressure on
23:04myself.
23:06The images,
23:07I don't know
23:08anything about
23:08it,
23:09so I can
23:10say whatever
23:11to...
23:12I work with
23:13my partner
23:13actually for
23:15the creative
23:15direction.
23:16He's made
23:17the cover
23:18art and the
23:19first press
23:20picks and
23:21also
23:22most of
23:24the videos
23:24except
23:24taken by
23:25the hand.
23:26I've been
23:26discussing
23:26with him
23:27about my...
23:29what I would
23:30see in my
23:31head,
23:32my few
23:32references
23:33as images,
23:35you know,
23:35oh,
23:36I like this,
23:36I like this,
23:37but I never
23:37tried to
23:38conceptualize
23:39too much
23:40my
23:41inspirations
23:43to make
23:46it make
23:46sense with
23:47the music
23:47because that's
23:48one space
23:50that I wanted
23:51to be
23:51as free
23:53of thinking
23:55too much
23:55actually
23:56compared to
23:56the music
23:57aspect,
23:58which I
23:59sometimes I
24:00think too
24:00much.
24:01When I talk
24:01about the
24:01visual elements,
24:02I'm never
24:03too explicit
24:06about it
24:07because it's
24:07really,
24:08it was really
24:09spontaneous
24:09and not very
24:12conceptualized,
24:13but thanks to
24:14Gilles,
24:15Garbi,
24:15who's been
24:16working on it,
24:17it all makes
24:19sense together
24:20and I'm so
24:21happy and
24:21he's an
24:25amazing artist
24:26who has,
24:29in my opinion,
24:30great taste
24:31and was really
24:34able to
24:34transform our
24:37discussions
24:38into a
24:41nice body
24:44of work
24:45and something
24:46that was
24:47really,
24:48in the end,
24:48making sense
24:49with the music,
24:50in my opinion,
24:51as well.
24:52So I'm
24:53very happy.
24:55I love the
24:56cover.
24:57Me too.
24:58I love my
24:58cover.
24:58I also have
24:59another question.
25:00I think the
25:01first time I
25:02discovered your
25:02music was
25:03through Lurk,
25:04the KCMQ
25:05made,
25:06and then the
25:06Lurk remixed,
25:07and then
25:08Family and
25:08Friends.
25:09So just
25:10that journey
25:11of how
25:12working with
25:13this other
25:13artist in
25:14three different
25:15versions of
25:16the same
25:16sound kind
25:17of made
25:18its journey
25:18to Family
25:20and Friends.
25:21That's
25:22interesting.
25:22That's funny
25:23that you link
25:23it to Family
25:24and Friends
25:24specifically,
25:25but I
25:26understand why.
25:26KC,
25:28I met him
25:28in 2016,
25:30and we
25:30made at
25:31this music
25:32camp at
25:33the time
25:33that Red
25:34Bull was
25:35organizing,
25:37it was
25:37called
25:38AirBMA.
25:39Like a
25:39writing camp
25:39or something?
25:40Yes.
25:40Cool.
25:41Pretty much,
25:42and with
25:42lectures and
25:44shows for
25:45two weeks,
25:46it was,
25:47I don't know
25:48how they were
25:48paying for
25:49all that,
25:49but lots
25:50of money
25:50involved.
25:51Red Bull,
25:52maybe?
25:52Red Bull?
25:53Yeah,
25:53I don't
25:55know.
25:55Capitalism.
26:00Yeah,
26:00so I
26:01met him
26:01there,
26:02and we
26:04actually made
26:05a track
26:05during that
26:06stay,
26:07and it's
26:07a track
26:07where it's
26:08the first
26:09track.
26:09What I was
26:10saying earlier
26:11about minimalism
26:12is the first
26:12track,
26:13because I was
26:13so inspired
26:14by Dion,
26:14I'm sure.
26:15I didn't
26:15know it by
26:16the time,
26:16but for me
26:17now it's
26:17obvious.
26:18I use
26:18one synth,
26:19and there's
26:20a bassline,
26:21I do the
26:22melody with
26:23my right
26:24hand,
26:24and I
26:25add layers
26:26of synths.
26:27It's just
26:28the voices
26:28of instruments,
26:30like you
26:31would harmonize
26:32with your
26:32vocals,
26:33you know.
26:35And it's
26:36the first
26:36time I
26:36do this,
26:37and I'm
26:37like,
26:37oh,
26:38I want
26:39to do
26:39that again
26:39in my
26:40life,
26:40and then
26:40we worked
26:42on that
26:42EP with
26:42KC.
26:43I had
26:45Lurk
26:45somewhere on
26:49my computer
26:49and we
26:50decided to
26:50integrate it
26:51in the
26:52EP,
26:53but Lurk
26:53is the
26:54same thing,
26:55bassline,
26:56right hand
26:56doing stuff,
26:57and then I
26:58add layers,
26:59not too much
26:59because it
27:00didn't need
27:00that many
27:01layers,
27:02actually,
27:03but Lurk
27:05is a great
27:05example,
27:06in my opinion.
27:07I was just
27:07jamming on
27:07my synths,
27:09and that
27:10sound came
27:11out,
27:13it's in
27:13Alchemy,
27:14in Logic,
27:14if you
27:15make music,
27:17you open
27:17Alchemy,
27:18it's really
27:18easy to
27:19find the
27:19sound,
27:20it's really
27:20good sound,
27:21really fun,
27:22and you
27:23add a
27:23delay,
27:24simple one,
27:25and the
27:26sound was
27:27so good,
27:28and it
27:29inspired me
27:30the play.
27:31Lurk has
27:32been inspired
27:32by another
27:33track,
27:35Lorne,
27:36and they
27:36made a
27:37track called,
27:38the videoclip,
27:39it's a
27:40girl's,
27:42they crash
27:42a car,
27:43and they
27:43dance in
27:43a diner.
27:48Acid
27:49rain.
27:50Lurk,
27:51you listen,
27:52it's very
27:52much inspired
27:53by acid
27:54rain,
27:55and I
27:56did my
27:56own thing,
27:56but I
27:57say it
27:58because on
27:58SoundCloud,
27:59someone was
27:59really mad,
28:00you copied
28:01acid rain.
28:03It
28:04actually,
28:04it's a bit
28:04true,
28:05so I
28:05said yes.
28:08Family
28:08and friends
28:09for me is a
28:09bit different
28:10because there
28:11is so much
28:12more elements,
28:13you know,
28:14the production
28:14is very
28:16busy,
28:19actually.
28:19There's a lot
28:19of things.
28:20I had to
28:20make choices,
28:22choices, and I
28:24could have
28:24made more
28:26choices.
28:27I think
28:27family and
28:29friends, you
28:31know, I could
28:31put Galore in
28:34there too, the
28:35track, for those
28:37who know God's
28:38chariots as
28:38well, it's
28:40just these
28:40synth-focused
28:43tracks that
28:47for me, the
28:49synth part, it's
28:50as important as
28:51the rest, and
28:53the vocals
28:54included, of
28:55course.
28:55For me, the
28:56synth is a
28:57voice, is
29:00even a
29:00language, it's
29:02that I do
29:04understand
29:04better than
29:05the words I
29:08use in the
29:08lyrics.
29:09For me, it
29:09talks as
29:10much and
29:12sometimes more.
29:14Importantly, no,
29:15it's not about
29:16importantation, but
29:18like, you
29:21know, what it
29:22says.
29:23Me, I make
29:24no difference.
29:25And that
29:28will be the
29:29end of my
29:30answer.
29:32Thank you so
29:33much.
29:33Hi, it's so
29:35nice to meet
29:36you like this.
29:37We've spoken a
29:38lot about your
29:40instrumental synths,
29:41trumpets even,
29:43but I actually
29:43love your
29:44lyrics.
29:45The lyric that
29:46I love is, I
29:47crashed this
29:48car to take a
29:49photo, and I
29:50was wondering if
29:51you could expand
29:52on that.
29:54And also, I
29:55know, I
29:56watched an
29:56interview you
29:56did where, I
29:57think in your
29:58song, Obvious,
29:59you said the
29:59only part you
30:00had was all
30:03the words that
30:03you say speak
30:04louder than
30:04me, and I
30:05think that's a
30:06sentiment, or I
30:07interpret that as
30:08a sentiment in
30:08your other songs,
30:10but specifically
30:11like, I don't
30:12know, crashing a
30:13car just to take
30:14a photo, what
30:14were you trying, I
30:16have ideas, but
30:17what were you
30:17trying to say?
30:19I love that you
30:20have ideas because
30:21it's really important
30:22to me.
30:23Why it's important
30:24to me?
30:25Because the
30:27process of writing
30:28lyrics for me, it's
30:30very, on the
30:33moment, I'm
30:34fuming.
30:35I work always with
30:37Casey because he's
30:38my English
30:38consultant.
30:42And also, I'm
30:44kidding, he's an
30:46excellent lyricist
30:47himself, and I need
30:52him, but it's
30:53really hard afterwards
30:56for me to go back
30:58on my lyrics and
30:59be like, oh yeah,
30:59this sentence is
31:01because of da-da-da-da-da.
31:02I don't remember.
31:05Of course I remember, I
31:08know what the songs
31:09are about, but
31:10sometimes, some
31:11connection, it was on
31:13the moment of writing
31:13and then it kind of
31:17gets lost into my
31:21very messy brain.
31:23but this line, for
31:26Chokin' Off, it's a
31:27good line, I think it's
31:29very representative of
31:30what I'm trying to say
31:31in the song, and I'm
31:34trying to evoke the
31:37need for sensations, and
31:42at what cost.
31:45I think when I was
31:49writing Chokin' Off, I
31:52was in a moment of my
31:55life where I just had
31:57experienced crazy
32:00emotions, very deep,
32:02like almost a love
32:04depression, like a bad
32:06breakup, basically.
32:08And, yeah, I was
32:12really, really not
32:13doing well, but I was
32:14very much in love, and
32:16all these intense
32:16feelings, da-da-da-da-da-da.
32:19And I was like, am I
32:20okay with this?
32:22Is it worth it?
32:23Like, it was the big
32:24question.
32:25And I'm kind of
32:26questioning that in
32:27Chokin' Off.
32:28Not wanting to focus on
32:30love, because it can be
32:31about so many other
32:32things, you know.
32:35But do...
32:36How intensely do I
32:39want to feel alive, or
32:44what does it mean to
32:45me?
32:45Like, do you find the
32:46aliveness in, life is
32:49so crazy, and I'm gonna
32:51do this and that, or
32:52it's so nice to just
32:55listen to Dion on your
32:58couch.
32:58Like, what's the...
33:00Where do I put the
33:02value, you know?
33:04Both is nice, also.
33:06But...
33:06And the other line
33:08was what?
33:09All the words that you
33:11say speak louder than
33:13me.
33:13Well, I wanted to talk
33:15about that one, because
33:16it's a good one as
33:18well, because what I'm
33:20saying also, and what's
33:24been a struggle for me,
33:26what's always been a
33:27struggle for me, is
33:29words.
33:29So, the reason why I have
33:35this appeal...
33:37What I was saying
33:37earlier about, like, the
33:39fact that for me, since...
33:41Not just things, but, like,
33:43a lot of elements in the
33:44music, is a language that I
33:47do understand better, that I
33:48can express myself better
33:50with than words.
33:52I think in speak louder
33:53than me, it's what I'm
33:55saying, basically.
33:55I'm also mixing it with...
33:59I talk a little bit about
34:01people that talk too
34:03loud, and that...
34:05Sometimes I just...
34:07When there is a lot of
34:09noise around me, I don't
34:10bother talking.
34:12It's too much effort.
34:16So...
34:16You know, in the train, when
34:18they make announcements,
34:20there is...
34:20If the microphone is too
34:22loud, I really need to stop
34:25everything I do, and I wait
34:26for it to pass.
34:28It's...
34:28But for me, it's almost
34:29like a...
34:30It's a...
34:30I wouldn't say painful, but
34:32it's a...
34:32It's annoying.
34:34So...
34:35Speak louder than me...
34:38It talks about my...
34:40Sometimes the inability to...
34:42To manage my relationship
34:45with my own language, actually.
34:48The human language, I mean.
34:50Whether it's in French or in
34:52English.
34:55But especially in French.
35:00In English, it's not my
35:01mother tongue, so...
35:03You know, I don't...
35:03I'm like...
35:04I don't speak English anyway.
35:06I can do...
35:07I can say...
35:08But...
35:09I mean, not correct stuff.
35:11It's fine.
35:11I'm supposed to be good in
35:13French, you know.
35:15So that's more annoying.
35:16Yeah.
35:16I think in the interview we
35:18did, like, earlier this year,
35:19you had mentioned the reason
35:21why you don't write as much
35:23in French, like, music.
35:24It has to do with sort of
35:25the privilege you assign
35:27French versus English.
35:29Yeah.
35:29Maybe you talk more about
35:30that a little.
35:31For me, French holds
35:32too much meaning.
35:36I don't feel like I have the...
35:38I have the talent to...
35:42to serve my own language.
35:47And also, like, I could try,
35:49you know, I could really
35:51give in the efforts.
35:52And I think when you choose
35:54to write lyrics,
35:54you really need to do your
35:56best to...
35:57to do your best.
36:00But...
36:00But in English,
36:03I allow myself mentally
36:05to actually try the exercise.
36:09Because I can find this zone
36:11where I don't judge myself
36:13too hard.
36:15But that's also why I work
36:16with Casey,
36:17because I need to make sure
36:19that what I want,
36:21what I try to say,
36:23because I do write
36:24a lot of things myself,
36:26but I want to...
36:31I need approval, basically.
36:35Thank you for your questions.
36:36Those are such good
36:37questions, guys.
36:38Oh, my God.
36:38I was going to end it,
36:39but I honestly have
36:40one more question for you,
36:41which is, like,
36:42I feel like we were just
36:44talking about lyrics so much,
36:45so I was like,
36:45it's on my mind now.
36:46But Blade Bird, you know?
36:48Like, that's, like,
36:50to me, like,
36:50you kept mentioning
36:52sort of the privilege,
36:53like, sort of how important
36:54synths and, like,
36:56other voices on this album
36:58are compared to the
36:59actual human voice.
37:00But I feel like that's
37:01one of the songs to me
37:02where your writing
37:04really shines,
37:05and, like,
37:05it is really about your
37:07voice to me on that song,
37:08like, your voice,
37:09and the meaning of that
37:11song is so...
37:14It just stuck with me
37:15all year.
37:15I mean, I read it as
37:17about your baby,
37:18but I know it can be
37:19interpreted in different
37:20ways.
37:21Can you maybe just talk
37:23more about how that song
37:24came together?
37:24And how it...
37:26I mean, it also just feels
37:27very different from the
37:28rest of the album,
37:29sonically, you know?
37:30That's true.
37:31Yeah, so...
37:32Yeah, I almost didn't
37:33put it on it,
37:34on the album,
37:35actually, for that reason.
37:36I was like,
37:36well, it sounds so different.
37:38I really do like
37:39the lyrics of that one
37:40as well.
37:41Why?
37:42Because...
37:42Well, I've been working
37:43with a very...
37:44Another...
37:44We were three in the room.
37:46Me, Casey,
37:47and...
37:48Nate...
37:49Nate or Nathan?
37:52Nathan.
37:52Nathan.
37:54Nathan.
37:55Nathan?
37:55Okay.
37:56I thought you were, like,
37:56calling to Nathan somewhere.
37:58No, that's very disrespectful
38:00of me.
38:01He's a friend,
38:02but English friend
38:03with an English name,
38:04okay?
38:05So...
38:06No, he's...
38:08We made several sessions together.
38:13Nate.
38:14Nate.
38:15Oh, God.
38:16Nate Company.
38:17So, we started...
38:19I had this idea
38:20to use a poem,
38:24a Basque poem
38:25that I really like,
38:26which is called,
38:27I think,
38:27a chorya chorye,
38:28something...
38:29It's in Basque
38:30and I don't speak Basque,
38:31but it's called
38:32A Bird is a Bird
38:34and it's about
38:35the fact that
38:36you can love a bird
38:39but you love a bird
38:41because it's a bird
38:43but
38:44if you put it in a cage
38:46to keep it with you,
38:47it's not a bird anymore
38:48because it doesn't fly.
38:50So,
38:51obviously,
38:53it's an allegory of love
38:54and, you know,
38:55the fact that you cannot
38:56possess
38:57somebody you love,
38:59for instance,
39:02maybe because it's
39:03of the way
39:04it's so free
39:05or whatever.
39:07But I thought
39:08it was really beautiful
39:08because it spoke to me
39:10on a personal level
39:10as well
39:11and I decided
39:12to get inspired
39:14by this poem
39:15to write
39:16Blade Bird
39:17and I exposed
39:19this idea
39:20to Nate
39:21and Casey
39:21and we started
39:23writing lyrics
39:24and
39:26that's it.
39:28That's it.
39:36Thank you for coming,
39:37everyone.
39:38Thanks so much, guys.