00:00Let's bring in a guy who's been a head coach. He knows how heavy that crown is because he
00:07hasn't had to deal with fans. No, he's had to deal with parents. Jason Lloyd joins us
00:11from The Athletic on the Wise Heart Right. We make it right. Call Kyle Wright Hotline.
00:14Hello, Jason.
00:15I was going to say, are we talking about 16U travel baseball now?
00:19You don't think travel baseball at 16U is high stakes?
00:23Oh, believe me.
00:24You ain't been kept up in the middle of the night? Yeah, my ass.
00:27Oh, believe me. It was funny. Last year, real quick, last year, I was in the dugout
00:32and I had my Apple Watch on and my high heart rate thing was going off. I'm like, are you
00:37kidding me? My heart rate was through the roof during those, especially those first couple
00:41games, trying to get the point on everything. Yeah, that's a lot of stress. A lot of stress.
00:47Good. I like laughing at you. Jason Lloyd joins us right now again on that Wise Heart Right
00:51and make it right. Call Kyle Wright Hotline. I'm going to ask you about the Cavs, obviously.
00:54You've got to start with the Browns. Who would you start on Sunday against the Houston Texans?
00:59Shador.
01:04Whoa! Wow! You turncoat!
01:07Well, no. I mean, listen, I've said since the summer, like, I don't personally, I don't
01:13believe either one of these guys are going to be here next year. But if you're going to
01:16make me choose between Shador and Deshaun, there's no comparison. Like, I'll take Shador
01:19every time. I just don't see, playing Deshaun feels like you're marching in circles. Like,
01:24there's just, it's a path to nowhere. And I told, like, oh, he's won five games and they're
01:29in the playoff line. Okay, fine. You're right. Yes.
01:32Well, I say that. That's what I say.
01:34But, like, I'm interested in the Browns someday contending for a Super Bowl. And they aren't
01:43getting any closer to doing that by hanging around.
01:46Losing on purpose will help them win the Super Bowl?
01:48But it's not losing on purpose. It's playing the one quarterback who maybe, maybe has a
01:54path to take you somewhere. Maybe. I told you guys in January, I wouldn't have him on the
02:00team. He's either the starter or he's off the team. Like, it's just too much nonsense.
02:06Otherwise, you either start him or he's gone. And especially after the way that he played
02:12the other day, was it great? No, it wasn't great. It was awful for three quarters. But
02:17Deshaun's been awful for three quarters and found a way to pull it out at the end. Did
02:20they pull it out at the end? No, they didn't. But it was the final half of the fourth quarter
02:26and the overtime. And everybody talks about the Judy throw. And the Judy throw was great.
02:29I'm not taking anything away from that. But it was more than that. It was just the composure
02:33that he showed being able to take him down the field. And I was thinking about this yesterday.
02:39I think I was at all seven of his games last year in person. I don't think I watched any
02:45of them on TV. Sunday was the first time I watched it on TV. And I could hear his cadence
02:49on the TV. That's growth. Like, that's a big thing with him. One of the problems before
02:54was the line couldn't hear his cadence. So for as loud and as clearly as he was speaking
02:59in his cadence, it's like, okay, that's growth. And some of the plays, he was canning some
03:05of the plays and getting them into different play calls. That's growth. So do I still think
03:09he's the long-term answer? No, I don't. But it's better than watching Deshaun, who I think
03:16there is no path forward with whatsoever. So play the kid. Play him and see what happens.
03:21And then, like, at least you – and, you know, I said this yesterday too. If they don't
03:25go back to him, that tells you what they think of him. Like, how many more – how many more
03:32signs do you need to see? If they don't go back to him now, clearly they don't believe
03:39he's the answer.
03:41I mean, I think we kind of got our answer already if they were willing to go with the guy
03:46who
03:47people openly disliked to start the season when they said it was a close race.
03:53And I do believe – I believe that was 100% Todd's call. And I think Todd probably was
03:59leaning on the veteran. And some of the stuff that we said over the summer, I think, was
04:03accurate. About 60 years old, not getting another job, this is it, has to win. I think Todd
04:09has established himself quite well over these first couple of months. Like, all the talk
04:14about one and done, I think that's gone, right? Like, I think that he's built up enough
04:18juice and credibility. Now, of course, if the wheels fall off in December, like, it's been
04:22known to happen around here. And things completely fall apart, who knows? But I think that we're
04:26past that point for right now. So, you know, and I think he wanted to go with the veteran.
04:33He wanted to go with the guy he trusted. And he wanted to go with the guy who – he
04:36trusts
04:37his legs more. You know, I think he obviously likes quarterbacks who can move. And I think
04:42Deshaun – I think he trusts Deshaun's mobility and Deshaun's legs more than he trusts
04:46your doors. But, you know, I just think that enough has been established over the first
04:52couple months of the season that it's not quite the same conversation that it was over
04:56the summer.
04:57All right, Jason. I kind of understand why somebody in the media, a pundit, you know,
05:04somebody in the content game would say exactly what you've just been saying over the last
05:08four or so minutes. I think I've said things like that in a given year about a quarterback
05:13situation. There's no chance a head coach of a football team when they were five and
05:17three before they had to go to the backup because of the concussion situation. There's
05:22no way a head coach of an actual NFL football team would agree with that, right?
05:28In terms of what? We've got to see what we have.
05:31At this stage. They might say that or be talked into it by an organization later in the year.
05:36There's no way when the team is partying at that starting quarterback's house because
05:41they're so elated that the Browns of all teams were one of the early stories in the NFL.
05:46There's no way that they would pull the plug in that situation, right?
05:51I mean, I, and that's why I, I felt like you said, who would I play? I play Shador.
05:56Who do I expect him to play? I expect him to play Deshaun. I do expect him to go back
05:58to Deshaun.
06:00But you asked me who I would play. I'd, I'd want to play Shador. And I think that there's,
06:04you know, I think there's people over there that probably want to get a longer look at,
06:07at Shador, but ultimately you're probably right in terms of how Todd thinks about this and what
06:13he wants to, what he wants to see. But as an organization, you have to have some sort of
06:18answer. And, and, and Ken, maybe you're right. Maybe they do have their answer internally.
06:23In which case I said, just trade them. What are we doing? Just trade them.
06:27Trade them by, trade them by the deadline today. If you're not going to play them, trade them.
06:30Who's going to trade for them?
06:33Arizona. Miami.
06:34You're just saying names. You're not trading him to a team who's looking for a quarterback
06:39right now. No, you're looking, you're trading him to a team who's looking at them as possibly
06:44a problem. And listen, I'm like, you're trading him in a seven and you're getting a six. There's
06:48no value there. I totally get it. But if you don't believe in him and if you don't believe
06:52he's the answer, then what are we doing here? Well, I, I still think naturally you can get
06:58to a point where you can kick the top. I mean, he can go out there, Deshaun go out there
07:02and suck on Sunday and they lose and they're five and five. And I'm like, okay, fine. I'm
07:06set up with seven more games left and I have a week off to prepare. And then another week
07:12to get ready for the next game. We got three straight games at home after this. I'm going
07:16to give them as good of a chance as possible. Like I, we are in a bizarre world where it's
07:20like, it's it's they're five and four. I'm not interested in just tanking the season on
07:24purpose or anything like that. I'm not accusing you of that, but I also think that we need
07:30to hold our horses here a little bit. They've made their decision. They like playing with
07:33the guy. It seems go ahead and play with them another week, but I'm not interested in just
07:37trading them away to somebody else. When I still have seven games left to go, we know
07:40what Dylan Gabriel is. If that's the case, then I'll just put Taylon green out there.
07:45Dylan's a backup. He's a, he's a backup. He is what he is. Yeah. And part of what you're
07:50saying, that was the logic that they used for starting with Deshaun and well, and I
07:56think everybody realizes he was four bad quarters away from being pulled against Tampa. If that
08:03thing looked like it did against Jacksonville, we'd be in a far different place, but it didn't.
08:07And he played just well enough to hold onto it and won the game, pulled out at the end
08:12and won the game. So this, like that was, that's what you're just said is sort of what
08:16they were saying at the beginning of the season, right? Well, we're just going to play
08:18for these first couple of games and then, you know, pull the plug. Well, here we are.
08:22It's now November and there's no more clarity than there was now in September on this.
08:29And because again, to me, it's about finding, it's not about tanking. It's not about trying
08:34to lose games. It's about trying to see if you have a quarterback or not. And if they
08:37are convinced that they do not, fine. It just feels like they are building a bridge to nowhere
08:43this season. Because even if they, even if they win and make the playoffs, remember that
08:48Houston Texans playoff game. That's a lot of fun. That's great. That really
08:52You're saying there's no value whatsoever for this team to make the playoffs as one of the
08:56youngest teams in the NFL. They have to win the Superbowl or it's all pointless.
09:01I guess. No, no. Okay. So they play it out. So they do that. They go to playoffs. They
09:05lose in the first round. Now, what are you doing at quarterback? What are you doing?
09:09I don't know. Jason, I already won five games, so I'm not even in the top three. So
09:12they're already out of that discussion. That's my whole point. Like they're already out of
09:15that discussion. And until they solve that and figure out what they're doing there, just
09:19like it's been for the last 30 years. So you're just telling us that the rest of the season
09:22is a wash. We can't figure it out anywhere else. I'm not telling you that. I'm saying
09:25place your door and see if there's anything there or not. But I already think you don't
09:29believe it. Again, they already gave their answer if they thought there was something
09:32there. So we're kind of going in circles here. Can I ask you another question about
09:35this? Do you think this will be Todd's decision? It has been to this point. That's not my answer.
09:45That's not my question. I want to know, do you think this will be Todd's decision? I can
09:48only go by history, right? We can only go by all the evidence up until this point. Last
09:54year was the head coach's call on quarterback depth chart. This year, up until now, it's been
09:59the head coach's call. So I have to believe they've always been an organization that operates
10:05that the head coach has to have authority over the quarterback depth chart. I believe
10:10I think this idea that Jimmy wanted to play Deshaun, I think is outrageously wrong. And
10:17this idea that he was pressured into playing Deshaun is just inaccurate. It was Todd's call
10:24to play Deshaun. And I believe until told otherwise, or until presented with evidence to the contrary,
10:30I have to believe it's the head coach's call. And it's just like, you know, just like I said
10:35last year, when, uh, Kevin was going around telling people when, um, I'm trying to think
10:43when Flacco was traded, Dylan was starting and Kevin was telling people in the building that
10:49it was going to be, uh, zappy as the backup and Shador was going to stay third string 48
10:54hours later. Shador was the backup. And I was fairly certain that he was probably pressured
11:00in doing that. And I have been told a hundred times, a hundred different ways. No, it was
11:04the head coach's call. It's the head coach who just, who sets the depth chart. He has to
11:09have full authority over who's the quarterbacks are. So I have to, until told otherwise, I have
11:15to take that at face value. I have a Cavs question for you, Jason. Uh, they look like
11:24they're trying to get the coach fired. I see everybody, uh, aiming their arrows directly
11:29at James Harden. When I'm seeing a lot of the same, uh, lack of enthusiasm at somebody
11:35who's going to be making 70 million a year in a year or two is, is it just as easy,
11:40just
11:40as simple as these players wanted Atkinson out the end of the season and now they're going
11:44to get their wish. Now what happened here? I, I, I don't know. All I know is they had
11:50180 million sitting on the bench last night, watching the comeback. And that's, that's
11:54problematic. Um, you know, I think Don has been fully supportive of Atkinson ownership
12:00has been completely supportive of, of Kenny, uh, up through last season. Are they trying
12:06to get them fired? I don't know. Uh, I, I see why someone would say that the effort
12:10last night was just completely unacceptable. Uh, but I know that, uh, up until now, Don's
12:17been a pretty stern proponent of Kenny. I think the locker room goes as he goes, uh, but
12:23it's certainly, I mean, it's a, it's an awful start and you know, I mean, yeah, you mentioned
12:27the other guys and it's fair, but listen, if Harden's already off the cliff, there's no
12:32coming back. Like I, I eventually that was always going to be a bad contract. You hope
12:38that it's year three, not year one. Um, so if, if, if, if this is, if this is James and
12:47I'm not saying it is right, like we're 11 games in now, typically 20 games of the first
12:52quarter poll. That's when you teams really sort of assess, okay, who are we? It's when
12:56you sort of get an identity of who you are. We're not there yet, but I mean, Donovan's numbers,
13:02James numbers. Yeah. It's, it's, it's concerning. And the whole mobile conversation we've had
13:07a million times, we can have a million more. Um, you know, my thing with Mobley has always
13:12been, he's not playing with the ball in his hands. It's up to the ball dominant guards
13:17to get him the ball. And if they don't, then none of these bigs can operate. So playing through
13:25the bigs makes a lot of sense, but you have to have the guards bought in to do it. And
13:28sometimes
13:28they are. And sometimes they aren't. So, uh, I don't think it's a five alarm fire yet,
13:34but there's smoke. There's certainly smoke. You know, I said last week, the, the warning
13:37lights are on the dashboard and it doesn't mean they can't get them shut off. And it
13:41doesn't mean they can't get it fixed. I mean, this was a 500 team in January last year and
13:45they went to the conference finals, but certainly there's a lot of troubling signs that don't feel
13:50great right now. 30 seconds, Johnny Bryant, would he be the interim slash now new head coach,
13:56or would they go with an outside person? Uh, it would be Johnny. It's hard to bring in a
14:01new, it's not impossible. It's hard to bring in a new guy off the street in the middle of
14:05a season like that. Uh, my guess would be, I mean, Johnny is Donovan's guy. My guess would
14:10be, it would be Johnny. If they did something like that. I don't think they're at that point
14:13yet, but I don't know. Who was the guy who called himself the voice, not the head coach.
14:19Oh, Larry Drew, Larry Drew. That's right. He was the voice. That was, that was, there's some
14:27meat on that bone. That was pretty funny. That was pretty funny back in the day. Oh,
14:33Lace enjoyed you. So-and-so. All right, Jason, thank you so much for the time. All the best to
14:41you and yours. Enjoy your breakfast sandwich in your, uh, German luxury automobile. All right,
14:46man. I'll see you guys. Thank you. Jason Lloyd, athletic columnist on the wise heart,
14:50right? We make a right call, right? Hotline. Oh, he'd go with your door. One of the biggest
14:55haters and hater history going to go with your door. But that, that statement about they,
15:00if they go to the playoffs, what, what, what does it matter? They're not going to go. I
15:04mean, that's, that's most of the NFL. Most of the NFL goes to the playoffs. I just think
15:07that makes the playoffs every year has really no chance to win the Superbowl, right? I just
15:10think that's crazy. I think it's crazy. Can I tell you why making the playoffs to be an
15:17excellent thing with, with neither of these quarterbacks who you may, I will make an argument
15:21and say that I'll go ahead and cut them both. And I'll tell you why I think it's, it'd still
15:27be great for them to make the playoffs. Ken Kahneman, Anthony Lyman, take us with you to work
15:30on the free Odyssey app.
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