00:00I do like the idea of setting the stage for the Cavs this year.
00:03I'm not the Cavs are finals or bust.
00:06I'm not it's finals or bust for Kenny Atkinson.
00:10I think the way you lost last year, and I think the way you're constructed,
00:15I'm hopeful you can win a championship, but I'm done expecting them to win a championship.
00:20Sure, I think that's very fine.
00:22It's just if the question is, to Kenny Atkinson specifically,
00:25does he keep his job if he doesn't make the finals this year?
00:28Yeah, it's a loaded East.
00:31I think people are completely out on the Cavs.
00:33When I say completely out, I mean they just aren't thinking about the Cavs going into the season.
00:37He's got a chance to overperform, if that's what you're saying.
00:39Yeah, but again, I think if you end up in a first-round series and you're the favorite,
00:45you should win that.
00:46Other than that, I feel like Kenny Atkinson should get some stability.
00:50We gave JB a lot of chances to swing at the tree.
00:54Sure, but the NBA world doesn't really operate that way at the moment.
00:57Yeah, I think the Cavs should.
00:59I think if you, at some point, if you just keep losing the postseason, it's not about the coach.
01:03I agree with you, by the way.
01:04I agree with you.
01:06I'm trying to figure out where everyone's head is at,
01:07because I think there are some people listening right now that say to themselves,
01:10this is year three for Atkinson.
01:12If you make it to even the conference finals,
01:14is that going to be good enough to say you're the guy moving forward,
01:18and you're the guy that, and also on top of this too,
01:20you also have to balance out,
01:22I mean, here's some quotes from Donovan Mitchell today
01:24that he told our buddy Chris Fedor about his time here,
01:27and how he expects it to go,
01:28so you've got to make sure everyone in the locker room also thinks he's the main guy too.
01:31Yeah, I understand that Donovan has to, you know,
01:34continue to push the idea that he wants to win a championship,
01:36and I think he does want to, by the way.
01:38I'm not doubting that.
01:40Harden's got to say, they've got to continuously say,
01:42that's the bar.
01:43There's a difference between that being the goal,
01:46and that being the bare minimum.
01:48And I think we need to start thinking of the Cavs in bare minimums.
01:52They have proven to you,
01:54whether it's Donovan wearing down in the postseason,
01:57whether it's the offense getting clunky between Evan Mobley and Jared Allen,
02:02it's going to take something we don't see right now,
02:06some unforeseen growth,
02:08whether that's by Tyson, Mobley,
02:10could be Peyton Watson for them to jump levels,
02:14because Donovan is who he is.
02:15James Harden at 38 years old is who he is.
02:19This team has, like,
02:21we should assume that the Cavs have already peaked.
02:24Until proven otherwise,
02:25until something comes out of left field we don't see,
02:28that should be the expectation.
02:29And that should, by the way, that should take the pressure off.
02:32There was a part last year where once they traded for Harden,
02:35we started having the James Harden wars.
02:37The pressure stunk.
02:38It really did.
02:39Again, it was tough to be a Cavs fan,
02:40because we all got into the different arguments that we had,
02:43and people would accuse each other of rooting against the Cavs.
02:46I'm just rooting for the Cavs to go out there
02:48and not slip on the banana peel.
02:50Yeah, but I do feel like,
02:52it's interesting how almost laissez-faire the approach is then towards Evan Mobley.
02:55Like, they'd set this whole thing up,
02:57that Mobley at some point was supposed to be better than Donovan Mitchell.
03:00If after three years of working with Evan Mobley,
03:03do we put that on Evan Mobley for a lack of development,
03:05or do we put that on Kenny Atkinson?
03:06Or do we just accept that maybe Evan Mobley was never destined to be Kevin Garnett?
03:11Can we have some acceptance in that and just appreciate what Evan is?
03:14I know, but that's tough.
03:15I don't mean to be defensive at you.
03:16That's what I'm trying to do.
03:17No, that was just a real back-and-forth convo is all.
03:19But it's tough to do that when he was taking third overall
03:22and then called himself better than Wimby.
03:23Look at the guys.
03:24He did this to himself.
03:26Yeah, but look at the guys around him.
03:27Jalen Green is on another team.
03:29And basically a stat accumulator on a bad team.
03:32I mean, look at a lot of the guys that were drafted with the time around him.
03:37Right?
03:37I mean, LaMelo Ball is now onto a second team.
03:40And there are questions about whether he'll ever win anything.
03:42Like, if you do that draft the same way,
03:46and the same three teams get the same,
03:48and you can choose from the same three players,
03:50Evan probably goes one out of those three players,
03:53or the other two players he was drafted around.
03:54Yeah, but it doesn't make it where we just then say,
03:56okay, you are just who you are, and we accept everything with it.
03:59I kind of think it should.
04:00If they built this all around that he was going to progressively get better and better,
04:03and he's the same player he was in year two,
04:05at some point, and you're answering the question,
04:07you're putting this on Mobley, not on Atkinson.
04:09No, I'm not putting it on anyone.
04:11At some point, I just accept who Evan is.
04:13And by the way, he has gotten better.
04:15That was the Kate Cunningham draft.
04:16Just because the points per game hasn't gotten better
04:18doesn't mean his game hasn't evolved.
04:20He just hasn't evolved to a point where he's taking over games.
04:23He has gotten better as a three-point shooter.
04:25I think in terms of as a guy to bring the ball up the court
04:29and do some light facilitating,
04:31I think I trust him more now than I did four years ago.
04:35So there has been development.
04:36It's just he's not – I don't know that he's a takeover the game kind of guy.
04:40I think maybe there's an element we should just accept about that.
04:43And maybe that's the end result.
04:44We just have to accept it.
04:45But at some point, if you're –
04:47This isn't James Wiseman, you know?
04:48No, again, James Wiseman wasn't comparing himself to Wemby either.
04:52We don't know that.
04:54Maybe in his own mind he was.
04:56He still might be comparing himself to Wemby.
04:57Maybe in his own mind he was.
04:58But I don't know.
05:00I got to look back and say to somebody,
05:01you had this all-world-everything talent that at 21 years old
05:05was playing outstanding basketball
05:08and third and defensive player of the year that season
05:12was all defensive, like all these other type of accolades
05:15and everything you could point out.
05:16And it's just – it's been the same thing now for four years.
05:20But the same thing is still really, really good.
05:22Well, no, it's great for year two.
05:23And it's fine.
05:25It's not all-NBA.
05:26It's not an all-star appearance last year.
05:28It wasn't a second-team all-NBA two years ago?
05:31Two years ago, yes.
05:32He made an all-NBA two years ago.
05:35But that was, again, two years ago.
05:37So he got worse from 25 to 26.
05:38And not points per game.
05:41Not defensively he didn't.
05:42It stayed the same.
05:42It stayed the same.
05:43Almost all of his – yeah, so it didn't get worse.
05:45Well, he got worse than his three-point percentage shooting.
05:48He started shooting more and started hitting less.
05:50He shot 29% from three when he was 37% in 25.
05:53Points per game the same.
05:54Blocks per game the same.
05:55Assists per game the same.
05:56Rebounds per game.
05:57I mean, I get it.
05:59We and Evan put the cart before the horse.
06:02I just think I'm over-weaponizing my expectations
06:05because I don't think it's a skill thing.
06:07I don't think it's a desire thing.
06:09I think it's a personality thing.
06:11I just – there are guys who have it and there are guys who don't.
06:15And if Evan's a worker bee and not the queen bee or king bee,
06:18I can accept that because him as a worker bee is still tremendous.
06:23It is still worthy of being the number three pick in the 2021 draft.
06:27And I think we have gotten so far to where we're starting to just slam this kid
06:32for not being what we wanted him to be or what, again,
06:35and he compared himself to Wemby.
06:37That's totally fair.
06:38That's fair game to bash him on.
06:40But, like, at some point, like, damn, this kid's a really good basketball player.
06:44It's not what we hoped.
06:45He's not Tim Duncan.
06:46He's not Kevin Garnett.
06:48I know, but the sad part about that is it felt like everything was built
06:51around him being that.
06:52It felt like everything was all – it was all going towards that being the end result.
06:56And so when it's not that end result, I do have to ask, why is that?
07:00Is that on Evan Mobley?
07:01Is that on Atkinson?
07:02Do you want to combo up the two of them?
07:03I'm not sure, but there clearly was something that didn't happen there
07:07that didn't elevate his game.
07:09They got the projection wrong.
07:11And when I say they, I mean, like, the Cavs and the NBA.
07:13He's going to be a really, really good player.
07:16He's going to be an all-star, but he's not going to be a franchise player.
07:18Or, sorry, he's not going to be the 1A on a championship team.
07:23And I think that's okay.
07:25Like, I really – because I want to normalize us just saying,
07:29damn, Evan's a really special player.
07:30And I think in the long run, I think if he accepts his role as the center on this team
07:35and puts on weight, at some point you offload Jared.
07:39I think we're going to see even some better stuff from Evan.
07:42Because I do think Evan and Jared playing together is still going to be clunky
07:46offensively for a while, for as long as they're together.
07:49I think if you make him the focal point.
07:51But they are – I mean, they are trying, and that's why they're doing different things
07:53this year, where they're going to have – it's going to be Evan and James Harden this year,
07:56and then it'll be Donovan and Jared Allen.
07:58Because Harden, historically, you can say a lot about him,
08:01and I know I tend to favor Harden, but Harden gets the most out of big men.
08:04No.
08:05I like Harden.
08:05I know.
08:06But he gets the most out of big men.
08:08And so, like, I think that was very intentional by Atkinson to go ahead
08:10and change that up relative to last year.
08:12216-474-0092.
08:14Is it finals or bust for Kenny Atkinson?
08:17Let's go with Thomas and Shaker.
08:18You've got about 45 seconds, buddy.
08:19What you got?
08:20Is it finals or bust?
08:22Well, see, I wanted to fire Kenny Atkinson last year.
08:25That's insane.
08:26He was in the Eastern Conference Finals.
08:28Yeah, but, you know, he blew that 20-point.
08:30That loss against the Knicks was just horrible.
08:32Did he do it or did the players do it, Thomas?
08:35You know, Nick, he had so many opportunities to call a timeout.
08:40He never called a timeout to throw the game down while they were blowing that lead.
08:42They had so many opportunities to get a freaking stop.
08:45Before we get to that, because I only got 45 seconds,
08:48I just want to say, you're right.
08:51The Eastern Conference is very stacked with the Sixers,
08:53and there are other great teams in the Eastern Conference
08:55that have built up this year with Kawhi Leonard going to the Toronto Raptors.
08:59But I do feel like that he should be on the hot seat,
09:03and we should see how he develops some of these young players.
09:05How did he develop the shooting?
09:07What's our pathway going forward?
09:09Because you just know, based on the development of the players,
09:12if the team's going up or not.
09:14And that's how I'm going to judge him,
09:16is how the development of our players are.
09:18So it's tough, and I appreciate you, buddy.
09:21Good stuff.
09:22And thanks for putting yourself on a shot clock, Thomas.
09:24It's tough.
09:25I only got 45 seconds.
09:26It's tough because, on one hand,
09:28the margins that you can get yourself better on
09:31are Tyson, are Proctor, are CPJ, are Tomlin,
09:35Evan Mobley as well.
09:37But this is also a superstar league still.
09:39So this thing goes so far as Mitchell,
09:43Harden, Mobley, and potentially Allen.
09:45Tell me why we're keeping them then.
09:47Tell me the value on Atkinson.
09:49If it's a superstar league and it only just falls back on the players,
09:52tell me what you...
09:53And I'm not jamming you up here.
09:55I'm just curious what your answer is.
09:57What is Atkinson doing that is like,
10:00all right, he's the guy then to move forward with
10:02and keep him then?
10:03He's proven himself as a good coach.
10:05And I do think going to the next coach,
10:08there's too much risk in there.
10:10I think we assume that it's going to be
10:12going to Mike Brown from Tom Thibodeau, right?
10:15Well, Tom Thibodeau was on that job for five years
10:17before he finally got whacked for Mike Brown.
10:19I mean, I think at some point,
10:21especially when you're talking about player development,
10:23you've got to let a coach in there
10:25and you've got to just let him do his job.
10:27And guys, we should address this right now.
10:30They probably won't win an NBA championship as constructed.
10:33With Donovan as your best player,
10:34they're probably not doing that.
10:36They're going to win a lot of games
10:37and they probably are going to win a lot of postseason games.
10:40But the idea that if they fall short of that this year,
10:43and I'm not saying you're saying this,
10:44but there will be people who immediately go to fire Kenny Atkinson
10:47and it's like, I mean, Donovan Mitchell's the face of this team.
10:51Donovan's been the one consistent.
10:52I know Evan's been a consistent, Jair's been.
10:54But Donovan, as the best player on this team,
10:56has been the big consistent.
10:58I think we just need to accept,
10:59hey, this team might be capped for where it is.
11:02It's going to be a lot of fun.
11:03There are going to be a lot of wins.
11:05A lot of great basketball will be had.
11:08I think Donovan's the guy that decides
11:10whether you're a championship team or not.
11:12And Evan is too.
11:13And if the answer is they're just not good enough
11:16or we don't have the right configuration,
11:19I think I'm just done having the Cavs worse with this
11:22because it hasn't been fun.
11:24The last two playoffs haven't been fun.
11:26And they should have been
11:27because they won a lot more games than we thought they would
11:29five years ago when we started putting this whole thing together.
11:32I just think the East got better.
11:33The only thing, the only hang-up that's different for me in this.
11:36The East got better.
11:36Last year, the East wasn't very good
11:38and it was sitting right in front of you.
11:40The East just, it just, it got much better this year.
11:42There's five, six teams that you can make a legitimate case
11:45can make a run towards the NBA Finals.
11:48I am not all or nothing with the NBA Finals this year.
11:50I really am not.
11:51But I am curious what people think
11:53and what their dividing line is when it comes to Atkinson
11:55because I can tell,
11:56I can tell the temperature's brewing when talking about it.
