- 1 day ago
This week, we’re going to hear about the deadly shooting at Silver Rail Elementary School in Oregon. We’re also looking back at another mass shooting, the Buffalo Tops Supermarket Massacre from 2022. We'll look at other crimes reported around the country by Audacy stations as well.
Featuring audio from KCBS Radio in the Bay Area, KNX News in Los Angeles, WBBM Newsradio in Chicago, 1010 WINS in New York, KYW Newsradio in Philadelphia, Chad Hartman out of WCCO News and Talk in the Twin Cities, the Dana & Parks Show out of KMBZ in Kansas City, Marty Griffin out of KDKA in Pittsburgh, Scoot out of WWL in New Orleans and A New Morning out of WBEN in Buffalo.
Featuring audio from KCBS Radio in the Bay Area, KNX News in Los Angeles, WBBM Newsradio in Chicago, 1010 WINS in New York, KYW Newsradio in Philadelphia, Chad Hartman out of WCCO News and Talk in the Twin Cities, the Dana & Parks Show out of KMBZ in Kansas City, Marty Griffin out of KDKA in Pittsburgh, Scoot out of WWL in New Orleans and A New Morning out of WBEN in Buffalo.
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NewsTranscript
00:00:11This is a True Crime Roundup from the On Deadline podcast.
00:00:15We explore crime stories reported on by Odyssey's radio newsrooms across the country.
00:00:22I'm your host, Lauren Barry.
00:00:24This week, we're going to hear about the deadly shooting at Silver Rail Elementary School
00:00:30in Oregon, where the youngest school shooting victim, a five-year-old, was murdered this
00:00:37week, along with an eight-year-old, an 11-year-old, and a 25-year-old teacher.
00:00:43We're also looking back at another mass shooting, the Buffalo Tops Supermarket Massacre from 2022.
00:00:51Jury selection is underway in the trial of alleged shooter Peyton Gendron, and we'll
00:00:58hear multiple experts weigh in on that process.
00:01:02First, we have roundups of crime cases from around the country.
00:01:07From the sentencing of the man convicted of rapper Tupac Shakur's murder, to President
00:01:13Donald Trump's decision not to live-stream the execution of the Fort Hood mass shooter.
00:01:19We'll start in San Francisco, California, where Odyssey station KCBS Radio covered a crime
00:01:28scene involving a retired police sergeant.
00:01:32We start with a North Bay neighborhood that's been rocked by a triple shooting that left three
00:01:37people dead at a home in Marin.
00:01:40KCBS's Matt Bigler joins us live from the scene in unincorporated Mill Valley.
00:01:46Hey, Steve, I'm here on Strawberry Circle, which is a quiet drive through this area of Mill
00:01:52Valley.
00:01:53This is where the Marin County Sheriff's Office says deputies responded to a 911 distress call
00:01:58just after five o'clock last night.
00:02:00A person inside that home was able to get out before deputies arrived.
00:02:04They secured the scene and then found three bodies inside.
00:02:09The reporting party who made that 911 call was able to make their way outside of the home.
00:02:14Our deputies made a small perimeter around the home and decided to make safe entry into
00:02:19the home.
00:02:20Sheriff's spokesperson Miguel Almaguer says they came across that grisly scene, three bodies
00:02:25all shot to death.
00:02:26This appears to be a tragic murder-suicide.
00:02:29We can tell you there is no threat to the surrounding neighborhood.
00:02:32There is no threat to the community.
00:02:34Now, while the Sheriff's Office is holding off on formal release of the identities, multiple
00:02:39sources confirm the dead include two retired members of the San Francisco Police Department.
00:02:45According to the San Francisco Chronicle, they are Sergeant Kevin Mannix, his wife, former
00:02:51Deputy Chief Ann Mannix, and one of their adult daughters.
00:02:55This tragedy has sent shockwaves through the Bay Area law enforcement community.
00:02:59Again, the investigation continues.
00:03:01If you or someone you know is struggling, the National Suicide Prevention Hotline is 988.
00:03:08Live in Mill Valley, Matt Bigler, KCBS.
00:03:11All right, Matt, thank you.
00:03:13Now we're headed further south in California to Odyssey Station KNX News in Los Angeles.
00:03:20On the scene of another fatal shooting involving family.
00:03:24Two children shot yesterday afternoon after police say their father allegedly shot them before turning the gun on himself.
00:03:33Emily Valdez was at the scene.
00:03:34A horrific scene in Pico Union.
00:03:37It happened on Venice Boulevard near Catalina Street just before 1 o'clock Sunday afternoon.
00:03:43Police say a man pulled out a gun and shot two children.
00:03:47A 10-year-old girl, approximately, and a 4-year-old boy.
00:03:51Then he turned the gun on himself.
00:03:52Police say all three were taken to a hospital.
00:03:55The two children were pronounced dead.
00:03:57The way I think is the kid.
00:03:59Why?
00:03:59This man lives in the neighborhood.
00:04:01He's the head of life.
00:04:02The life.
00:04:03I don't know how I'm thinking about my grandson and everything, you know.
00:04:07In Pico Union, I'm Emily Valdez, KNX News.
00:04:12In the Chicago area, Odyssey station WBBM Newsradio reported on two traffic-related crime incidents.
00:04:22Here's one report from Monday, October 12th.
00:04:26Investigators say 25-year-old Kendall Chesley attacked the man Saturday on North Salem Avenue,
00:04:31then drove a Honda toward him.
00:04:33The car hit a building instead and Chesley ran away.
00:04:36Palatine officers later arrested him near Rand and Heintz Roads.
00:04:39The victim suffered stab wounds to his chest and hand but is expected to survive.
00:04:43Chesley also faces an aggravated battery charge.
00:04:46Rachel Pearson, Newsradio, 105.9 WBBM.
00:04:50And here's the other report from Wednesday, October 14th.
00:04:5628-year-old Pedro Anzaldúa and 32-year-old Janie Palomo were arrested on Tuesday,
00:05:03according to the Illinois State Police.
00:05:04The ISP says on September 5th, Anzaldúa and Palomo were riding a motorcycle on I-55
00:05:11in the southwest suburbs when they allegedly fired a weapon at a vehicle after a road rage incident.
00:05:17No one was injured in the shooting.
00:05:19Anzaldúa, whose charges include attempted murder, is in custody,
00:05:24while Palomo was issued a notice for her to appear in court.
00:05:27Roger Plummer, Newsradio, 105.9 WBBM.
00:05:33Odyssey Station KYW Newsradio in Philadelphia
00:05:38continued coverage this week of an ongoing investigation into an allegedly botched murder case.
00:05:47Let's listen.
00:05:51District Attorney Larry Krasner is blaming the Philadelphia Police Department for a botched murder case
00:05:56in which the suspect, now accused of killing Officer Shane Sieber, was acquitted and let out of prison.
00:06:03KYW's crime and justice reporter, Kristen Johansson, first reported the case.
00:06:07She joins us live with the very latest on this.
00:06:10Kristen?
00:06:10Yeah, Denise, so we've been digging in ever since.
00:06:13Lewis was acquitted in 2023 for a 2019 road rage-related shooting case,
00:06:19and basically the District Attorney Larry Krasner is pinning that loss on the police department.
00:06:23He posted a video on YouTube squarely pointing it at the police department.
00:06:28It was not just full of errors and mistakes, very serious ones,
00:06:32but some of the conduct involving one police officer and one detective is arguably criminal.
00:06:37There was no press conference, Denise, so we really couldn't ask him any questions related to that.
00:06:43Reporters were unable to ask about the officer's conduct that he's talking to,
00:06:47but other law enforcement sources and defense attorneys say that really what happens here
00:06:51is that the buck stops with the prosecutor trying to prosecute the case,
00:06:55that they're the ones that have the evidence, the phone calls, the records really behind it.
00:07:00So really, many people I've talked to, including a former Philadelphia District Attorney,
00:07:04Assistant District Attorney, say that when this comes down to it, it really is at the prosecutor's feet,
00:07:10and that probably in this case there's a little bit of the police that play a part in this,
00:07:15but to blame it all really on the police department and say that there was nothing on their part
00:07:22when how this case kind of fell apart is really not correct,
00:07:27just an incorrect information that's being released to the public.
00:07:30We are waiting to hear from the Philadelphia Police Department.
00:07:35I believe that they're going to be sending over a statement shortly.
00:07:38Denise.
00:07:39Right.
00:07:39KYW crime and justice reporter Kristen Johansson.
00:07:43KYW also reported on an investigation into the disturbing death of a young girl.
00:07:50A Paulsboro couple is facing first-degree murder charges in the death of a nine-year-old girl on Tuesday.
00:07:56And a warning, some of these details might be hard to hear.
00:08:00Here's KYW South Jersey reporter Mike Doherty.
00:08:03The Gloucester County Prosecutor's Office says the couple called 911 just after 1 a.m. for a child not breathing.
00:08:08When police arrived, the couple said they heard tires screeching and a crash and that the victim was found near
00:08:13the shed.
00:08:14They said she was walking the dog and may have been struck.
00:08:17She was rushed to the hospital with cuts and bruises on her face and all over her body.
00:08:21Doctors said the injuries were not consistent with a vehicle crash.
00:08:2427-year-old India Miller and 45-year-old Sean Scott are facing first-degree murder and related charges.
00:08:31Investigators say the victim's 4-year-old sister told police their stepdad hit the victim in the face and eyes.
00:08:36And police found the victim's blood on bathroom tiles and on a mop along with cleaning supplies inside.
00:08:42The medical examiner found the child had multiple broken ribs and other injuries in various stages of recovery,
00:08:48suggesting the abuse had been ongoing, Miller and Scott are being held at the Salem County Jail pending a detention
00:08:54hearing.
00:08:54At the South Jersey Bureau, Mike Doherty, KYW Newsradio, 103.9 FM.
00:09:03Another report out of KYW is centered on the death of children at a Great Wolf Lodge water park resort.
00:09:12A man and child are dead and the child's mother is charged with killing them inside the Great Wolf Lodge
00:09:18in Pocono Township on Monday.
00:09:20Mike Mancuso is the Monroe County District Attorney.
00:09:23There are charges now filed against the woman who was actually the caller to the 911 center.
00:09:32Her name is Metallica Rose Harrison.
00:09:36And she's charged in a warrant with two counts of homicide.
00:09:39But court records say after Harrison called 911, she told dispatchers that she needed help dying.
00:09:45When officers got there, they found Charles Harrison and a three-year-old boy identified in records as TH dead.
00:09:51Metallica Harrison had neck and wrist injuries.
00:09:54Police say they rushed her to a hospital.
00:09:55This was a violent domestic tragedy.
00:10:01Investigators say they have numerous pieces of evidence recovered from the room at the lodge.
00:10:05And the lodge says it's cooperating with this investigation.
00:10:09Another case of family violence comes out of Odyssey Station, 10-10 Winds in New York City.
00:10:16This story has a tragic ending, but it's also something of a miracle.
00:10:2210-10 Winds also in court today for the arraignment of that guy who allegedly pushed his ex-girlfriend and
00:10:28an infant off a 15th floor balcony in the Bronx last week.
00:10:31Angel Carrasco making an appearance in court on a video call from a hospital's psychiatric ward.
00:10:36The judge issuing a no-contact order, saying he should have no contact whatsoever involving his eight-month-old child,
00:10:42which he shared with Natalie Ramirez.
00:10:44He's facing murder, attempted murder, manslaughter, and assault charges.
00:10:47The prosecution also requesting that Carrasco stay behind bars.
00:10:51But the defense team requesting he stay in protective custody, which the judge agreed.
00:10:56Carrasco is due back in court November 4th.
00:10:58Mary Lynn Buckley, 10-10 Winds on 92.3 FM from Bronx Criminal Court.
00:11:03And of course, as you know, Ms. Ramirez was killed in that fall.
00:11:06Her baby survived, but with serious injuries.
00:11:08Police believe the woman's body helped to break the eight-month-old's fall, which lessened the impact.
00:11:15In Buffalo, New York, Odyssey Station WBEN News and Talk discussed how a recent violent crime has impacted the local
00:11:25business community.
00:11:26Tim Walton, manager of Bottoms Up and Venue, joined the station.
00:11:33You know, this week we saw the closure by the city of the cowboy after the owner was involved in
00:11:40a stabbing.
00:11:41And we heard comments from Mayor Ryan, too.
00:11:43He's putting Chippewa businesses on notice for what he says is breaking the rules.
00:11:49What's your perspective?
00:11:50What's going on down there?
00:11:52You know, I think right now there's a lack of communication between the city and the bar owners.
00:11:58I know from our experience, and I know from multiple other bars, there's been zero communication from the mayor's office
00:12:04since the start of this.
00:12:07There's a lack of coordination in a lot of this where, to be honest, the issues that happen in the
00:12:14summer are a Saturday thing where there's a lot of people that loiter in the parking lots and stuff like
00:12:20that that start every year.
00:12:21It starts in Memorial Day, ends in Labor Day.
00:12:25And we know what nights are going to be busy.
00:12:28We know what nights are not going to be busy.
00:12:30And we keep hearing about this abundance of tax resources and extra, you know, that it's crazy numbers to police
00:12:37down there on each weekend.
00:12:38And I agree, but there's no communication going on right now because this stuff just keeps being put out there
00:12:44with no, you know, half the nights you don't even need these people.
00:12:47I mean, there's some nights it's a ghost town down there, and there's still, you know, 20, 30 officers down
00:12:53there, and there's more officers than people some nights.
00:12:55It's just there's zero communication going on that if the bars were able to work with the mayor's office, then
00:13:02you'd save so much taxpayer money.
00:13:05It's just this is so unnecessary at this point in businesses.
00:13:09Every business down there is losing money because of this.
00:13:11You know, I wonder what you think about the Chippewa district as a whole, looking outside of bottoms up in
00:13:16venue.
00:13:16The mayor said in his comments this week that Chippewa is not a place that he would go out with
00:13:24his wife after a wedding for a drink.
00:13:27And I heard that, and I said, well, yeah, obviously, like, that kind of makes sense.
00:13:33No offense to the mayor, not the type of person I'd expect to see in a nightclub.
00:13:37You run nightclubs on Chippewa.
00:13:39It's the one place in Buffalo where there is a nightclub.
00:13:43I mean, do you feel that the city is saying here that we don't want a nightclub in Buffalo because
00:13:50they say that that's not the atmosphere they want?
00:13:53You know, kind of the appearance that we're all kind of getting is the city doesn't want an entertainment district
00:13:59in general.
00:14:00I mean, you have every other city is able to do this where you have stuff going until 4 a
00:14:05.m.
00:14:05You have, you know, 2 a.m., whatever, wherever it is, depending on, you know, obviously the jurisdiction.
00:14:10But this is common.
00:14:12I mean, you have bars.
00:14:13You have clubs.
00:14:15You have event centers.
00:14:17You have – this is an entertainment district.
00:14:19This is what you get.
00:14:20I mean, every other city, you go to St. Pete, you go to Texas, you go to any college town.
00:14:25There are bars and bars and bars lined on streets, and they have no issue because they can police it
00:14:30right.
00:14:30They work with the bars.
00:14:31You know, it has to be a dual effort by both people.
00:14:34And if every other city double the size would double the amount of bars and double the amount of people
00:14:39can handle this and make this right, how come Buffalo can't get this right?
00:14:42I mean, for the last 10 years, venue's been open.
00:14:45Bottoms has been open 25 years now.
00:14:48How come every other thing has worked for the last 10, 25 years, and now all of a sudden it's
00:14:54a disaster and there's all these problems?
00:14:56It's not.
00:14:56It's just there's no communication to understand what's actually going on on the street, and it can very easily be
00:15:03solved and worked with, and the bars are willing to do it, but we've had no communication.
00:15:07I know some other bars have reached out and have gotten no response.
00:15:11We're just being left on deaf ears, and nothing's being done to cooperate with us.
00:15:15You know, I think of – and you had mentioned, too, and you hear this a lot.
00:15:19It's not the atmosphere that he would want to be in or that he thinks people would want to be
00:15:22in down there on Chippewa.
00:15:24And, you know, to the question I just asked, it's a nightclub atmosphere.
00:15:29It's not the place where everybody would want to be.
00:15:34And that being said, if you don't want to be there, it's one block in the entire city of Buffalo
00:15:40where that atmosphere is.
00:15:41There's a lot of other places to be.
00:15:43I mean, if you're going to have a nightclub, I feel like you're going to have that kind of atmosphere
00:15:49outside.
00:15:51And not for nothing, I mean, I don't see – I mean, the mayor's an older man.
00:15:54I don't – no offense to that, but I don't see someone his age coming out until 4 a.m.
00:15:59anywhere.
00:16:00And if you are, you're not going to be in your downtown – you know, and he's not going to
00:16:03be out until 4 a.m. on Chippewa.
00:16:05I mean, there's different clienteles for everything.
00:16:08I mean, I don't hang out at a bingo hall.
00:16:09I'm not trying to shut it down.
00:16:11You know, it's – not everything is for everyone, and, you know, it's not something new.
00:16:16It's been working for years.
00:16:18There's no issues like that.
00:16:19And the other thing is, you know, it's just a few instances that are being highlighted that, you know, it's
00:16:25not even just on Chippewa.
00:16:27I mean, there's stabbings and shootings everywhere in the city right now.
00:16:30And it's just for whatever reason, every time something happens, Chippewa gets targeted.
00:16:35You don't hear about these things when, you know, six people are shot in the weekend all over the city.
00:16:39Nobody's like, let me shut down this area.
00:16:41Let me shut down this corridor.
00:16:42It's whatever reason, being targeted at the entertainment district and the businesses, employees, this is people's livelihoods and, you know,
00:16:53at least start some kind of dialogue with the bars.
00:16:55What has all of this, this targeting and this increased police presence done to your business?
00:17:02I mean, every business on the street is hurting.
00:17:04I mean, for one thing is you can't even park a car or drive down the street within, you know,
00:17:11from Delaware to Huron to Tupper to Main Street is blocked off every single weekend.
00:17:17We hear every week that we have bachelor parties and, you know, limo buses that want to come down that
00:17:22imagine, you know, a group of 30 females getting dropped off and have to walk two blocks in high heels
00:17:28on a cold, rainy night.
00:17:29Like, it's, they don't want to come down because it just doesn't make sense why, you know, nobody can even
00:17:35get close to the bars to park.
00:17:37And you come down there, it doesn't look inviting.
00:17:40You just see each corner blocked off by top cars and you can't even get close to see what's going
00:17:45on.
00:17:45You know, there's so much more that can be done and we're willing to work with the city.
00:17:49We just need a dialogue back.
00:17:52Decades after the murder of legendary rapper Tupac Shakur, a man is now going to prison for the crime.
00:18:00This week, the Dana and Parks show out of Odyssey Station KMBZ in Kansas City covered the story of that
00:18:08man's sentencing.
00:18:11A judge in Las Vegas has sentenced Dwayne Keefe D. Davis to 40 years to life in prison for the
00:18:181996 murder of rapper Tupac Shakur.
00:18:21Davis, who is 63, will obviously die in prison, was convicted in August of murder with a deadly weapon with
00:18:27the intent to promote further or assist a criminal gang for his role in the killing.
00:18:32Although prosecutors said at the time that the state would dismiss the gang-related portion of his charge, he had
00:18:38pleaded not guilty.
00:18:40All he had to do was spill the beans.
00:18:44On?
00:18:45I don't know. I'm not here to make any allegations.
00:18:47I'm just telling you that he was not the sole actor in that story.
00:18:50Why wouldn't you and just ask for witness protection?
00:18:53Yeah, I mean, well...
00:18:55I don't think it's that simple.
00:18:56Although I am fascinated by the notion of witness protection.
00:18:58When you come from the gang culture, the whole snitches get stitches, I'm sure he had a lot of fear
00:19:03that he would be found.
00:19:05How old is he now? 63?
00:19:06Is there any such thing as an elderly gangster? And I'm asking absolutely being serious there.
00:19:10Well, keep in mind...
00:19:11Are you still gangster when you're in your 70s?
00:19:13He's probably not still gangster.
00:19:17Do we add the R back?
00:19:19When you hit 70?
00:19:21Yeah.
00:19:21Probably. But he's 63, so he's still a gangster.
00:19:23I feel like you start drawing Social Security, you lose your street cred at that point.
00:19:27But you've got to remember, these charges stem from a crime committed 30 years ago when he was only 33,
00:19:33and you can definitely be a gangsta at 33.
00:19:36I'm asking today, does anyone still care?
00:19:38If he was part of the plot as he was alleged and convicted for to kill Tupac Shakur, the other
00:19:45individuals that were part of that plot have an extremely vested interest in that information not getting out.
00:19:52Would these be well-known people?
00:19:54Well, some of them may or may not be well-known people.
00:19:58Some of them may or may not be in prison currently, and we may or may not have read news
00:20:02stories about them recently.
00:20:03I am not here to make allegations.
00:20:06All I know is that is not the entire story, and he's taken the fall.
00:20:10Didn't Suge Knight also go to prison?
00:20:12Now, he didn't participate necessarily in the murder, but wasn't he, like, alleged to have had some sort of knowledge
00:20:21as to who did?
00:20:22There was a lot of connections going around.
00:20:25I don't think that we should be trying to break this down.
00:20:28Yeah.
00:20:29For our own safety?
00:20:30Now, I just, when you say things like Suge Knight, I just feel like...
00:20:35That's his name.
00:20:36Right.
00:20:36S-U-G-E.
00:20:37Suge.
00:20:38Right.
00:20:39Listen, you don't get to call and question my street cred when I pronounce the names correctly.
00:20:44You are not gangster.
00:20:45I'm just saying I giggle when you try to read these stories, as should you.
00:20:50Dana, his name is Suge Knight.
00:20:52I once pronounced Kanye West's name Kane when I was a news anchor.
00:20:56So, I'm not throwing stones here.
00:20:59I'm just saying this is not really our wheelhouse.
00:21:02When this story first entered our radar, Scott said Kef D.
00:21:07That is correct.
00:21:07And I lost a lot of street cred that day, but I pronounced it correctly today.
00:21:11It's Kef D.
00:21:11You lost whatever street cred you had.
00:21:14Didn't have.
00:21:14Yes, that's correct.
00:21:15I would like to also just clarify, when you said when this story entered our radar, this story has never,
00:21:21nor will it ever be on my radar.
00:21:25Sentencing has been handed down?
00:21:26He's guilty?
00:21:2740 years to life in prison.
00:21:28Then we just put this over here, out of our stack.
00:21:31We move it over here.
00:21:32Are we not allowed to talk about any rappers with unique names?
00:21:37We did.
00:21:37We just talked about it.
00:21:40I'll just say that there's a number of documentaries going around that circle of people.
00:21:45That are available on all the platforms.
00:21:47Go watch them and draw your own conclusions about who may or may not have been involved.
00:21:52It's interesting.
00:21:52Netflix has never once suggested that I watch any of those documentaries.
00:21:57And I'm guessing if I went into your Netflix algorithm, that's not in the top 100 things of what you
00:22:02would probably be interested in watching.
00:22:04I'm just saying.
00:22:05To get suggested documentaries like that, Dana, first you have to watch good movies.
00:22:10Oh, snap.
00:22:13Last week, Secretary of War Pete Hegseth made headlines when he indicated that the execution of Fort Hood mass shooter
00:22:22Nidal Hassan would be live-streamed later this year.
00:22:26President Donald Trump said this week that the live-stream isn't something that's going to happen.
00:22:32Let's hear some more about this from the mid-morning mic check out of Odyssey Station KRLD 1080 in Dallas.
00:22:40An announcement by the president, the Nidal Hassan firing squad execution coming up in early December.
00:22:47Not going to be live-streamed after all.
00:22:49You know, the more I thought about this, the more I thought the president probably used Pete Hegseth to throw
00:22:57that out there and see what kind of reaction he'd get.
00:23:00But if people were like, yeah, then maybe he would have stuck with it.
00:23:03But he got a negative reaction.
00:23:05He got a reaction already.
00:23:06Yeah, and he probably heard from some of the families saying, no, Mr. President, we do not like this.
00:23:11And so he's pulling that crazy Pete.
00:23:13He comes up with his crazy ideas.
00:23:16Yeah, don't blame him.
00:23:18And this is bipartisan criticism, too.
00:23:20In fact, J.D. Vance said he wasn't going to watch it.
00:23:23He would not be watching it.
00:23:24Trump said on social media this morning, publicly airing the execution, quoting now,
00:23:30it might have been a strong deterrent for the world to witness how America deals with terrorists and scum like
00:23:35Hassan.
00:23:36But he continued, many very good and well-meaning people would rather not watch him die through streaming or any
00:23:43other visual device.
00:23:45And so he's probably right about that.
00:23:47You're not going to be able to watch this guy sitting in a wheelchair get shot by a fine ring
00:23:53spot.
00:23:53I know he's a piece of crap, but come on.
00:23:56They are going to do it at Fort Hood, though.
00:23:59Yeah, okay.
00:24:00Because he's in Lebanon now.
00:24:02That's fine.
00:24:02That's where it ended on the anniversary.
00:24:04Yeah, and if any soldier there wanted to see that, if any family member obviously wanted to see that,
00:24:12they'll let them in.
00:24:13That would be interesting.
00:24:14If you were a family member of one of the victims, I wonder if they would allow you to.
00:24:19I've never had a loved one murdered in any way or anything like that where somebody else was responsible directly
00:24:27for their death.
00:24:28So I don't know how my feelings would be, but I know they'd be strong for quite a few people.
00:24:34Scoot out of Odyssey Station, WWL in New Orleans, also discussed Trump's decision on the Fort Hood execution.
00:24:45President Trump has decided not to allow the live stream of the execution of the Fort Hood shooter.
00:24:52The president found out that he's in a wheelchair, and the sight of this man sitting in a wheelchair and
00:24:59being executed by a firing squad
00:25:01was something that President Trump did not think was appropriate.
00:25:05Now, I know there are going to be people who are going to argue,
00:25:10Yeah, but look at what this guy did.
00:25:11He killed 13 people, injured 32 others.
00:25:14You know, who the hell cares if he's in a wheelchair?
00:25:16Execute the guy.
00:25:17I mean, look, there is that mentality out there.
00:25:20I get that.
00:25:22But the overall optics of this are not good.
00:25:26And while people would have had a choice to to watch it or not, nobody was going to be forced
00:25:32to watch the execution.
00:25:33I get that they're not going to live stream it.
00:25:36And, you know, the president said it was going to be live streamed.
00:25:40And then when he found out that the guy was in a wheelchair, he said, no, we're not going to
00:25:44we're not going to do that.
00:25:45So I guess you could just, you know, use your imagination about what it's going to what it's going to
00:25:52look like when it when it happens.
00:26:01At around 1 p.m. on Thursday, October 15th, 911 calls started coming in about an active shooter near Silver
00:26:10Rail Elementary School in Bend, Oregon.
00:26:14The culprit was allegedly shooting at a vehicle with a long gun before he entered the elementary school.
00:26:22Officers were at the scene within minutes, but tragedy had already fallen on the Silver Rail campus.
00:26:31A 5-year-old, an 8-year-old, and an 11-year-old had already been fatally injured, along with
00:26:39a 25-year-old teacher named Megan Lambert.
00:26:42A 7-year-old and a 54-year-old were transported to a local hospital with critical injuries.
00:26:50And the shooter, identified by authorities as 16-year-old Griffin J. John II, was shot dead by a community
00:26:58member, according to the Bend Police Department.
00:27:02The department said that the community member's children go to the school.
00:27:07An investigation into the incident and the shooter's motivation is ongoing.
00:27:15This case is yet another horrifying entry into the list of elementary school shootings that have claimed young victims,
00:27:23including the Sandy Hook shooting in Connecticut and the Robb Elementary School shooting in Texas.
00:27:30What can be done to prevent these terrible incidents?
00:27:36It's a question that seems frustratingly hard to answer.
00:27:41When a school shooting broke out at Annunciation Catholic School in Minnesota last year,
00:27:47Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry dismissed the notion that thoughts and prayers are enough to prevent these senseless tragedies.
00:27:57Chad Hartman out of Odyssey Station WCCO News Talk in the Twin Cities brought up that quote from Frye when
00:28:06discussing the shooting in Bend this week.
00:28:12Three kids, 5, 8, and 11, are gone now.
00:28:16Teacher, gone.
00:28:18The shooter, gone.
00:28:21Thank God there was a person there.
00:28:24Had a weapon.
00:28:25This isn't a show where we're coming for all your guns, so save that nonsense.
00:28:31This guy, 16-year-old, not even a guy, a kid.
00:28:36Who knows what's going on.
00:28:41Shot into a lock of some sort.
00:28:43It was supposed to be a secure vestibule.
00:28:47And a person saw that, followed, took him down, but not before a 5, 8, and 11-year-old are
00:28:56gone and a teacher gone.
00:28:57Think about all the things the 5, 8, and 11-year-old are not going to have.
00:29:02It was picture day, by the way.
00:29:04Picture day.
00:29:06Their mom, their dad, both, someone, helped them get ready, put on nice clothes, posing for pictures.
00:29:17How about when those pictures come back?
00:29:20And they're not there.
00:29:23Won't see their friends anymore.
00:29:25Won't go to the next middle school or junior high or high school.
00:29:29Won't go to the prom.
00:29:30Won't play sports.
00:29:32Won't go to trade school, college.
00:29:35All the laughter, all the fun.
00:29:37Maybe the kids they would have had.
00:29:39The jobs they would have had.
00:29:42They're gone.
00:29:45I've said for a while now,
00:29:48I'm furious that we have this as our greatest failure.
00:29:54It is.
00:29:55The number of mass shootings we have in this country is so disproportionately higher than other Western nations.
00:30:06It's not close.
00:30:11And I want to see states be a part of what I thought states were a part of, and address
00:30:19it and try different things.
00:30:20If your state wants to just funnel all the money into more mental health, fine.
00:30:28Let's just see what happens.
00:30:29Let's try it.
00:30:31If your state wants to make it incredibly difficult to get guns.
00:30:37By the way, Oregon, one of the tougher states to get guns.
00:30:44If you want to do that, go ahead.
00:30:47If you want to arm teachers, go ahead.
00:30:54Let's try some things.
00:30:56Like, the arming teachers still gives me great concerns.
00:31:00I'm not one who advocates that because I just worry in the complete panic what's going to happen.
00:31:08But I don't know how much experience this individual had who had the weapon, who took down the shooter.
00:31:15And this person apparently acted in a reasonable, heroic way.
00:31:22But we're not going to do a thing.
00:31:25We're going to do nothing.
00:31:28And we are so desensitized to it that by tomorrow, we'll barely be talking about this.
00:31:41And other shows that are topical, if they're not talking about it today, I think they're making a mistake.
00:31:49But I can't blame them because when you count college campuses, we're well over 50 shootings this year.
00:31:58In Pittsburgh, Marty Griffin, out of Odyssey Station, KDKA, also addressed the Oregon shooting and the importance of mental health
00:32:08care for young Americans.
00:32:17Well, I kind of reach a point in my career where we're sitting there last night.
00:32:25I am with my wife Christine and we're just heartbroken about these kids dead in Oregon and their ages and
00:32:42then their parents and then the shooter.
00:32:50And our culture and our culture and the environment.
00:32:53And I can't let go of the sound of this little boy's voice who was in the school in Oregon
00:32:59when all of his friends were killed.
00:33:03Listen to this.
00:33:04Listen to this.
00:33:05We didn't really take it in as a gunshot.
00:33:08And then maybe 10 to 20 seconds later, we heard more gunshots.
00:33:18And that time we definitely knew it was a gunshot.
00:33:22I locked the door and I went back behind our lockers as all my classmates did the same.
00:33:29All of my classmates and my teacher were safe, but we were definitely scared and most people were crying and
00:33:41it was really hard.
00:33:45Man, that ain't right, man.
00:33:49I just think we can do better.
00:33:53Man.
00:33:55I can't get past this stuff anymore.
00:33:59Every time you have one, you think it's the last one you hope it is.
00:34:05I can't wrap my arms around where we're at.
00:34:09I'm sitting here this morning thinking of what's happening with teens in America.
00:34:14No, right now.
00:34:15Do you have teens?
00:34:16I do.
00:34:17Do you talk to them?
00:34:18We try to.
00:34:19Can't say we're perfect at it.
00:34:21I mean, you don't know, right?
00:34:23Until you know.
00:34:25I think.
00:34:28I'm trying to think if I was troubled as a teen.
00:34:31I was.
00:34:32I shut down on my parents.
00:34:35I planned to break into cars and steal cars and get in fights and drink and smoke weed and get
00:34:44arrested.
00:34:45I did.
00:34:45I was 15, man.
00:34:47My mom, I could hear my mom crying still.
00:34:53I'm sitting here thinking of this kid.
00:34:57That little boy.
00:34:58Now, when he's my age, he'll remember this.
00:35:01I hope he's okay from it.
00:35:03I do.
00:35:04But I don't know.
00:35:05Do you know?
00:35:06I don't.
00:35:07We don't know anymore.
00:35:08We can't say.
00:35:13I don't know.
00:35:14I mean, do you talk to your kids?
00:35:18I don't know.
00:35:18And then every day.
00:35:20You want to blame someone?
00:35:21We talk about teen takeovers.
00:35:23So those kids.
00:35:24Okay.
00:35:25So that's one group.
00:35:27Now, these kids.
00:35:28These mass shooter kids.
00:35:29There's another group.
00:35:32So we have teen takeovers, teen shootings, teen car thieves, teen mass shooters, teens who are anxious, teens who are
00:35:43depressed.
00:35:48My daughter.
00:35:52You just want to hug them, right?
00:35:54You want to sit in a circle and hug them.
00:35:58To cover them in your blanket of love.
00:36:02And hope that nothing ever happens to them.
00:36:06My kids texted me one day from school.
00:36:08They were all running out of the school because the kid was coming up there to shoot them all.
00:36:13Literally, they ran out of the school.
00:36:14All the kids.
00:36:16This is where we're at.
00:36:22You know, the culture has changed so much.
00:36:24When my father was young, you know, they had a rifle team at school.
00:36:29When you shot on the range at school, after school, and you brought your guns to school and put them
00:36:35in your locker.
00:36:36Seriously.
00:36:36Now, uh-uh.
00:36:40And you know how many parents have bought their kids shotguns?
00:36:43My father got me one.
00:36:45I had a .22 long as well.
00:36:49So we can't go nuts and say this woman bought this boy who killed these kids a shotgun because that's,
00:36:55if they were hunters or outdoors types, that's what parents do.
00:37:00We don't know.
00:37:02Do you know?
00:37:05I don't.
00:37:07And then I think of this man who killed this mass shooter.
00:37:13And I know you think because you have a gun you would do the right thing, but that man who
00:37:20did that had to shoot and kill a 16-year-old boy with a gun.
00:37:26Kill him.
00:37:27He had to make that choice.
00:37:28Think of that responsibility.
00:37:32I don't know if I could do that.
00:37:34I don't.
00:37:37I just don't.
00:37:38I don't know if I could do that.
00:37:47I don't know if I could do that.
00:38:05And I haven't looked yet, but I'm sure the Jagoffs came out and made rude, obnoxious comments rather than saying,
00:38:10maybe I should.
00:38:11But my daughter sent me a text.
00:38:17This is where we're at.
00:38:18One of her high school friends killed himself last night in the family's basement in Mount Lebanon.
00:38:35I don't, man.
00:38:36I don't, man.
00:38:37I don't have the answers.
00:38:39I hope my son's okay.
00:38:41He's the youngest.
00:38:42The other two are at Pitt.
00:38:43I hope.
00:38:44I think he is.
00:38:46We love him.
00:38:48He seems to be happy, but I don't know.
00:38:51He's alone sometimes.
00:38:52A lot.
00:38:55He closed the door in his room.
00:38:57I mean, are we supposed to sit there and stare at him with a blanket around him?
00:39:02I don't know.
00:39:07And my daughter's sitting there with her friends now trying to figure out why one of their friends killed himself
00:39:11last night in the family's home in the basement in Mount Lebanon.
00:39:15And I'm sure an entire country is once again wrapping its arms around a teen shooting.
00:39:24What did I say earlier?
00:39:26288 days so far in the school year.
00:39:3052 mass shootings at schools.
00:39:33And some schools have cops, and I love that.
00:39:36I think the best there is is Butler County.
00:39:38They have a retired state cop in every school, which I think is amazing.
00:39:45Amazing.
00:39:46I know Lebo has armed cops, and I know the kids like that and feel secure about that.
00:39:54But I think long before we have to get a cop with a gun in a school, we have to
00:39:58get in the heads of our kids.
00:40:03I have a beautiful young lady with me this morning, and after this break, I'm going to ask her.
00:40:07I mean, what's going on with youngsters?
00:40:12And then try to get them help without getting personal.
00:40:18I tried and did succeed in getting a young woman help in a psychiatric hospital.
00:40:24But when her family called, it was an eight-month wait to see a psychiatrist for one appointment.
00:40:31So your teen is suicidal and depressed, and they say, call us back in eight months.
00:40:35This is where we're at.
00:40:37There are no beds.
00:40:39There are no doctors.
00:40:42So maybe drug them up, give them a cell phone, shut them in the bedroom, and hope for the best.
00:40:48And again, it's Friday, and I guess I'm supposed to be talking about high school football and donuts, but I
00:40:54can't, because I think we all have to think of the last time we sat down face-to-face with
00:41:00our kids and said, hey, what's up, and are you okay?
00:41:03I think we need to do better, all of us.
00:41:09The Oregon school shooter might have been shot by a community member, but some mass shooters are still alive after
00:41:17the destruction they cause.
00:41:19It's been more than four years since Peyton Gendron, then 18 years old, opened fire at a Topps supermarket in
00:41:28Buffalo, New York.
00:41:29Ten people, all of whom were black, were killed, and three others were injured.
00:41:35Gendron, whose white supremacist beliefs were revealed in reports after the shooting, is now 23 years old.
00:41:43The final jury selection for his trial began this week, and multiple experts joined Odyssey Station WBEN in Buffalo to
00:41:54discuss the process.
00:41:55First, we'll hear from attorney Terry Connors.
00:42:03We're talking about the jury selection in the Topps mass shooter case.
00:42:08Terry represents seven of the ten families who lost loved ones in the Topps massacre, and thank you for joining
00:42:15us this morning.
00:42:16It begins what could be a very lengthy process, and I want to begin with maybe some of the conversations
00:42:23you've had with the family members you represent
00:42:27on how prepared they are or maybe aren't to start to go through this process that could take many months.
00:42:38I don't think that any of the families are totally prepared for this.
00:42:44It is, you know, a horrific experience in their lives, and many of the families have tried to find something
00:42:52positive to come out of this by committing themselves to the community,
00:42:56by doing things that have a positive development on their lives and the lives of their families.
00:43:02But I can't say that they are prepared for this event.
00:43:04There's really two trials here, Terry, the second one being the death penalty question, and that decision by the jury
00:43:14has to be unanimous.
00:43:16What about family members?
00:43:18How are they feeling about the death penalty in this case?
00:43:22You know, Susan, it's interesting.
00:43:24There are a lot of mixed emotions.
00:43:27There are some family members who wish to just put this behind them.
00:43:33There are some family members who don't want to participate.
00:43:36There are other family members who want to see that this entire horrible episode is aired for the public so
00:43:43that they can see the heinous nature of what occurred.
00:43:45So the reactions and the feelings about what occurred on May 14, 2022 are really very mixed.
00:43:55Well, on what's going to happen beginning today, this jury selection process, I'd imagine for a federal death penalty trial,
00:44:05it's different than maybe your ordinary trial with a seated jury.
00:44:12Or is it?
00:44:13What are the similarities?
00:44:14What are maybe the differences in a case like this?
00:44:17Well, it's totally different.
00:44:19It's been called historic because we've not had one in western New York for over 100 years, so everything about
00:44:26it is very different.
00:44:27But primarily, it's the process.
00:44:29Keep in mind, Brian, that they started out with 1,200 prospects for the jury.
00:44:35They were vetted through extensive questionnaires.
00:44:37They were brought in, and their opinions, their feelings, their thought process were discussed in open court.
00:44:44And now they're going to go through another process that begins today, and that process will be basically seen through
00:44:52two filters.
00:44:54The jurors must be what's called – it's a horrible term.
00:44:57It's called death qualified.
00:44:59In other words, they cannot be opposed to the imposition of the death penalty as a matter of their own
00:45:08philosophy.
00:45:09But they can't automatically agree to impose it without reviewing and listening very carefully to the mitigation.
00:45:17So that's the filters that they will be tested throughout by the judge and the lawyers for both sides of
00:45:24the prosecution and defense.
00:45:26How will it work with this jury pool?
00:45:29How many will they bring in at one time, like starting today?
00:45:32How many will they bring in at one time, like starting today?
00:45:56That are very lengthy trials, but they will be coming in in waves.
00:46:01It's projected that the jury selection could take several months before they finally get the 12 jurors and all the
00:46:09alternates sworn to listen to the proof of the two phases, as you suggested, both the guilt phase and the
00:46:16penalty phase.
00:46:18Why are we talking about maybe this length of time?
00:46:21You know, usually in jury selection, we're talking about somebody who might be tainted in one way or the other.
00:46:25What might be a question that's asked of this jury where, I mean, you're not really deciding guilt or innocence
00:46:33here.
00:46:34That matter has basically been settled, but you're looking at the death penalty.
00:46:39Where are the questions going to be that, I don't know, find some sort of bias when it comes to
00:46:45that decision?
00:46:47Well, interesting in this particular case, the judge will conduct the majority of the voir dire, the jury selection.
00:46:56But the judge has told all the parties that he will permit the lawyers to ask questions that they believe
00:47:03are relevant to the qualifications of the jurors.
00:47:06And that's a little unusual in federal court.
00:47:09But Judge Villardo has indicated he will permit that to some extent to monitor to make sure that the questioning
00:47:14does not go far afield.
00:47:16But it allows the individual lawyers to develop their theories, to talk to the jurors about how they will receive
00:47:25some of the evidence.
00:47:27Because the guilt phase, while you're correct, has been determined.
00:47:30It still bears on the issue of the penalty because it will be evidence that will be elicited for them
00:47:36to consider in determining whether or not to impose the death penalty.
00:47:40So there will be questions about their experience, their personal experience, their lives, how they've been influenced, by whom and
00:47:50by what they've been influenced.
00:47:52They'll be asked about their readings.
00:47:53They'll be asked about their knowledge of this particular case.
00:47:56And most importantly, they'll be asked about their particular feelings with respect to the death penalty, whether they have moral
00:48:03opposition to it, whether they would be able to listen to the evidence.
00:48:08And, you know, evidence like this, it's going to be, I know the evidence, it's going to be, you know,
00:48:14very, very horrific evidence.
00:48:16Quickly, Terry, do you think that a jury can be picked fairly?
00:48:23Well, our process is not perfect, but it's better than any other process that exists in any other country.
00:48:30And so the jurors are true to their oaths and they are honest and straightforward and the lawyers do their
00:48:39job.
00:48:40They should be able at some juncture to be able to find a group of 12 individuals who will be
00:48:49fair and impartial and will be able to judge the case based on the evidence and ultimately follow what the
00:48:55instructions are of Judge Velardo as to their obligation as jurors.
00:48:59You know, jurors are a pretty amazing group of people.
00:49:02Their collective intelligence is unsurpassed.
00:49:05And you see them really, almost literally in their faces, taking the importance of the decision for all the parties.
00:49:15It really has a lasting imprint on the jurors that I've spoken to, even in cases that aren't as monumental
00:49:21as this case.
00:49:23Another attorney, John Elmore, also joined a new morning out of WBEN this week.
00:49:31John Elmore is joining us, attorney representing families of victims of the TOPS shooting.
00:49:39John, good morning.
00:49:40Thank you for joining us.
00:49:41Jury selection is ongoing in the death penalty trial of the TOPS shooter.
00:49:47How has the process played out over these first two days of vetting?
00:49:54Well, what's happening is it's a process called voidir, jury voidir, where prospective jurors are being questioned by the judge
00:50:04at length about their views of the death penalty, their backgrounds, and their giving answers.
00:50:12And then it's individual voidir.
00:50:17Normally, in a regular trial, they'll bring a bunch of jurors in there and question them in front of all
00:50:25the other jurors when in a death penalty case, death penalty cases are different.
00:50:28So it's individual voidir, and it's a lot longer because you bring in one juror at a time in the
00:50:37room by himself, and the other jurors are exposed to the questions and answers because they don't want to poison
00:50:44potential jurors.
00:50:45And they're questioned extensively about their views of the death penalty.
00:50:51If a prospective juror would not consider the death penalty, then that juror is going to be stricken by the
00:50:58judge automatically.
00:50:59And if a prospective juror feels that they would automatically impose a sentence of death, then that juror will be
00:51:09stricken.
00:51:10So it's a very complicated, long, drawn-off process that could probably take two months.
00:51:17And in a typical criminal case, jury selection is done in a day or two days at the most.
00:51:23And I just want to go touch on that, the point about questioning about their belief in the death penalty.
00:51:30It's one thing to say, yes, I'll be okay.
00:51:33Well, actually, rather, this is regarding the violent footage that they'll be required to view.
00:51:37You know, it's one thing to say, yes, in the moment, I'll be able to see it.
00:51:42But then I imagine it'll be another thing once they sit down in the courtroom and the trial begins and
00:51:47have to watch it.
00:51:48How in-depth will that line of questioning be?
00:51:51And what happens if they get to the courtroom, that footage comes up, and a juror can't handle it?
00:51:57Well, once they – if they're selected on the jury, they're going to be thoroughly vetted by the judge,
00:52:05thoroughly vetted by both defense and the prosecution.
00:52:11And if – you know, they're going to take an oath, and the judge is going to make sure that
00:52:17they take that oath seriously.
00:52:20And if they do serve on the jury, they'll hopefully do their duty.
00:52:25John, the judge yesterday, Judge Villardo, said in court that this trial is not a referendum on race.
00:52:33But it's also been reported that potential jurors have so far been white with a mix of men and women
00:52:39of varying age groups.
00:52:42What are you thinking about that?
00:52:43Well, the lack of African-American jurors in the jury pool has been a problem in western New York for
00:52:52decades.
00:52:52I've been practicing in federal court, I think, since I did my first trial in 1989 there.
00:52:57And so the jury pool is chosen from the eight most western counties of New York State.
00:53:06So, you know, if you look at Allegheny County, Chautauqua County, Cattaraugus County, Genesee County,
00:53:13there's a very, very small number of African-Americans in those counties.
00:53:18And so the pool of African-Americans is very small.
00:53:25And, you know, I think it's very interesting that the defense has filed a motion
00:53:30to strike the jury panel for the lack of African-Americans in the jury pool.
00:53:37And that's been a problem for decades.
00:53:39And you have brought up the point that the defense is going to do whatever it can possibly do to
00:53:46avoid the death penalty.
00:53:47Is the motion to dismiss for that reason just another example of that?
00:53:52Well, for a number of reasons.
00:53:54I mean, again, the defense goal is to save Genesee's life.
00:53:58And it's counterintuitive to think that the defense would file a motion to strike a jury panel
00:54:06that has a lack of representations of African-Americans when you have Gendron who's accused of this racially motivated killing.
00:54:15But demographically, African-Americans as a group are the most anti-death penalty ethnic group in the country.
00:54:24And so think about it.
00:54:26There's a case called Vax v. Kentucky, which makes it very difficult for prosecution to strike an African-American juror.
00:54:39If they do, they have to show a race-neutral reason for doing that.
00:54:43So if there's a juror that the prosecution really didn't like that was African-American because of their death penalty
00:54:51views,
00:54:52they felt that they would consider the death penalty.
00:54:55But the prosecution really was on edge and thinking that this was an African-American because of their Christian beliefs
00:55:03wouldn't really be strong on the death penalty,
00:55:07then it would be very difficult to do them.
00:55:09And the goal of the defense lawyer is to just find one juror that would vote for life without the
00:55:18possibility of parole.
00:55:21And they've saved his life and they've done their job.
00:55:24This, in a small way, reminds me of the Lindsay Clancy case that we just went through.
00:55:28But it does take a unanimous jury to impose the death penalty, right?
00:55:33It takes all 12, and the judge has instructed them that if one prospective juror doesn't believe and won't vote
00:55:45for the death penalty,
00:55:46then it would be life without the possibility of parole.
00:55:48Now, every prospective juror has to say that they would consider the death penalty if the aggravating factors substantially outweigh
00:56:00the mitigating factors
00:56:01after hearing all the evidence, and they have to consider it, but they don't have to swear that they would
00:56:07impose it.
00:56:08And so, again, the prosecution's goal is to get a jury that would sentence gender to death.
00:56:15And the defense attorney's goal is to find that one juror that they could convince that death is the inappropriate
00:56:22sentence.
00:56:23But not only that, but the defense wants to raise every possible issue for an appeal.
00:56:31And that's one of the issues that they'll raise if there is a sentence of death.
00:56:35And that's why when the death penalty is imposed, it takes years and years and years before somebody is actually
00:56:44executed if the conviction is not overturned.
00:56:49John Flynn, a former Erie County District Attorney, joined a new morning to talk about the case, too.
00:56:57John, waves of jurors are going to be coming into the courtroom, and like yesterday, they're interviewed.
00:57:04Some were excused, but it doesn't appear that anyone was actually selected yet.
00:57:10Is that right?
00:57:12Yeah, I mean, and like we talked about before, Susan, it's going to be very difficult and challenging to find
00:57:20someone who's going to be suitable to fit in for this jury.
00:57:26It seems like this is almost a two-step process.
00:57:29They're identifying people to maybe go back to later or who can be in the jury pool.
00:57:35Can you explain how that works?
00:57:38Well, yeah, so if you recall, they initially sent out questionnaires to probably, you know, 3,000 people.
00:57:49Of those questionnaires that they originally sent out, they whittled that down to about 1,700, 1,500 to 1
00:57:57,700.
00:57:59Then they sent out an additional questionnaire that had more questions to it.
00:58:04After that round of questionnaires, they eliminated about 500.
00:58:09So they've got about 700 or 800 or so people now in the jury pool.
00:58:15They're going to bring them in, you know, 70-ish at a time and, you know, and ask them questions
00:58:23and then kind of, you know, keep them on hold and decide whether or not at a later date that,
00:58:31you know, they'll be, you know, applicable or acceptable for service.
00:58:36You know, already the defense has filed a motion to dismiss the indictment claiming that the jury pool fails to
00:58:44reflect a reasonable cross-section of the community.
00:58:48Isn't it a little early to say that?
00:58:50Well, it's early and ironic if you think about it, Susan.
00:58:54I mean, you know, they're arguing that the jury pool, you know, is not a cross-representation of enough people
00:59:04of color on the jury.
00:59:05And if you think about it, how ironic that is, is that, you know, this individual murdered people because of
00:59:13their color, and now the defense is arguing, well, hey, there's not enough people of color on this jury.
00:59:19You know, to your listeners, that may seem ridiculous.
00:59:22But I guess their theory is that, you know, that there's a strong segment of the African-American community that
00:59:34is against the death penalty, and they're hoping, obviously, to get more people who are against the death penalty or
00:59:43who cannot, you know, vote for the death penalty on the jury.
00:59:49What line of questioning is allowed, or is there anything that isn't allowed when trying to ascertain that?
00:59:57I mean, can you straight up ask a juror, hey, do you believe in the death penalty?
01:00:02Do you find it morally reprehensible?
01:00:04Do you find it right or wrong?
01:00:06Do you have to dance around that?
01:00:08How does that work?
01:00:09No, you can ask that question, Brian.
01:00:11You know, one of the questions yesterday was, you know, the defense attorney asked a hypothetical of the members of
01:00:21the jury.
01:00:22They asked, you know, hey, if, you know, you were stranded on an island, you know, you and a bunch
01:00:29of people, and you had to create a society now on this island, would you, in your new society, have
01:00:38the death penalty?
01:00:40So, you know, they can ask the question in a number of different ways, you know, trying to, you know,
01:00:48again, if you ask the question straight up, hey, are you for or against it, you know, you might get
01:00:54people who don't give you, you know, the real answer, okay?
01:00:59So you want to pose the question in a way where you get some discussion and you get some thoughtfulness
01:01:06out of the person to try to ascertain whether the person is truly, you know, giving you their honest opinion.
01:01:13You know, when you're talking about the makeup of a jury, is there a right mix for this jury?
01:01:21Well, I mean, you know, going back to the defense's argument, you know, you do want to have a cross
01:01:29-section of society, obviously, because, again, in the Constitution, you know, the premise of the jury is, you know, that
01:01:36you are tried by a jury of your peers.
01:01:39And so, you know, when you say of your peers, then, you know, you're saying that you want a representation
01:01:46of society as a whole.
01:01:49So, you know, in a perfect world, you want that, you know, and, you know, again, you know, when I
01:01:56was district attorney, unfortunately, the majority of the jurors, not just the jurors at a trial, but even in the
01:02:04grand jury, Susan, were mainly, you know, white.
01:02:07You know, you really didn't, unfortunately, get a cross-section of society, and it's obviously good to have that because
01:02:17you want people of diverse views.
01:02:20You want people with different backgrounds in life.
01:02:23You want to bring, you know, have everyone bring your life experiences, you know, to the jury room, you know,
01:02:31to the table to decide whether or not this person should be put to death or not, quite frankly, which
01:02:36is a big decision.
01:02:38You know, on the trial, this process will take some time, but then we'll get a little bit further along.
01:02:44There's a lot of evidence that is in this trial that the public has not seen, footage, things like that,
01:02:51that will be shown in a courtroom.
01:02:53For family members, for people who are following this along, just what are people expected to see as a part
01:03:02of this trial that may be tough for a lot of people to relive or see, even for the first
01:03:08time?
01:03:08Well, Brian, the video is graphic.
01:03:11I've seen it.
01:03:13You know, it's awful.
01:03:16You know, they're going to see, you know, individuals just getting shot in cold blood in live time, and it's
01:03:26not going to be pretty, and, you know, that's obviously one of the questions that is going to be before
01:03:34the jurors is that, hey, you know, can you sit through this?
01:03:38Are you able to handle what you may see in the course of this trial?
01:03:44And, again, you know, the jurors are going to have to respond that they're going to be able to see
01:03:51this, view it, take it all in, and, you know, and obviously have, you know, the ability to fairly, you
01:04:02know, decide whether or not this person committed this crime.
01:04:06You know, it's pretty cut and dry, obviously, you know, that he committed a crime.
01:04:12The defense attorneys even admitted that, quite frankly, yesterday, that they, you know, they kind of planted the seed yesterday
01:04:19that, hey, this isn't a case about whether or not this individual committed this mass murder.
01:04:25This is a case about whether or not this person should be put to death or not, but they still
01:04:31have to, prosecution still has to prove the underlining case and the murder and the civil rights violations.
01:04:38So in order to do that, they're going to show all the evidence.
01:04:44Thank you so much for listening to this true crime roundup from the On Deadline podcast.
01:04:50This episode was written and produced by me, Lauren Berry.
01:04:55Special thanks to KCBS Radio in the Bay Area, KNX News in Los Angeles, WBBM News Radio in Chicago, 1010
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01:05:25and A New Morning out of WBEN in Buffalo.
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