- 12 hours ago
Catch up with all the latest political news across the county with Rob Bailey.
This week we were joined by Kent County Councillors Mark Hood (The Green Party) and Harry Rayner (Conservatives) to discuss conference party season and an Ofsted report into SEND provision across the county.
This week we were joined by Kent County Councillors Mark Hood (The Green Party) and Harry Rayner (Conservatives) to discuss conference party season and an Ofsted report into SEND provision across the county.
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TVTranscript
00:22Welcome to the Kemp Politics Show on KMTV. I'm Rob Bailey and the political conference
00:27season has had a grand finale. Kemi Badenoch wants you to believe the Conservatives are
00:31the no-drama party. But will her plans to overhaul inheritance tax and create jobs for young
00:37people persuade Kent's voters? Meanwhile, the Green Party wished that they were the
00:41no-drama party. Their conference was dominated by a controversial vote on Israel, and now
00:46their leader, Zak Polanski, has vowed not to quit after losing a London by-election.
00:50The Greens have been blossoming in Kent, but are they set for an autumn fall? Here are
00:55some of the highlights from both conferences.
00:58We have had an export boom of drama queens going to reform. This party is now the no-drama party.
01:13We are the no-nonsense party. Passing on your home to your family is one of the most human
01:24instincts of all. So, conference, the next Conservative government will legislate so nobody will ever
01:34pay inheritance tax on their family home.
01:39How do we make life more affordable? Under Labour, rents are set to rise, energy bills are spiking,
01:46and people are shuttling out more and more just to afford the basics.
01:50But we Greens have a plan to bring bills down by nationalising water, making every home efficient,
01:57and putting an emergency brake on rents.
02:03And here with me is the Conservative leader at KCC, Harry Rayner, and the Green leader
02:08also at KCC, Mark Hood. Thank you for joining us. Mark, obviously I want to talk about some
02:14of the issues and the things that we've heard both leaders talking about there, but obviously
02:17hot off the press this morning is that by-election result, and it has been a bit of a tumultuous
02:21week for the Greens in some ways. Do you think the Greens are starting to hit a bit of a
02:25ceiling
02:25now after that result, coming second in Holborn and St Pancras?
02:29I think we've been on an incredible journey with our new leader. The huge increase in our
02:36membership has been extraordinary. And obviously we had the Gordon-Denton by-election victory,
02:42and this may have been a challenge too far. To win in Holborn and St Pancras, that was a big
02:50ask.
02:51And I think there's been a bit of a burn and bounce, so we've had to contend with that.
02:56And I think it's no accident that the timing of election day was so soon after our conference
03:03because we could all predict what was going to be the fallout from that.
03:07Do you think that the Greens have, to an extent, shot themselves in the foot?
03:12Obviously the controversy was around the Zionism is racism motion that was passed,
03:16which is controversial within the party, let alone outside of it.
03:20Is there an extent to which this is, in a way, old Green thinking?
03:23A party which was an advocacy party, a party that was designed to kind of shock and move debate,
03:28rather than a movement of a party that is really preparing for serious power?
03:32No, I don't think so. I think we've got a situation where the Green Party has been a lone voice
03:37in challenging the government and the UK's response to a genocide in Gaza.
03:44And I think there's frustration with some members.
03:48And we've had a motion brought to conference which lacked any nuance.
03:54So there were amendments which could have improved it, but they were defeated as well.
03:59And I think that's a real shame. I mean, personally, I wouldn't have voted for that, for the motion.
04:05I don't think we need to be a mirror of Netanyahu, because he advocates a one-state solution.
04:14He wants to eradicate a Palestinian state, and the increase in settlements in the West Bank illustrates that.
04:22You put out a Facebook post. Is that an attempt to distance Ken Greens from the National Party in some
04:28respects?
04:28There's been two statements. There's been a statement from the KCC Group,
04:33and there's been a statement from Tunbridge and Walling's Green Group on this.
04:37We don't speak for Ken Greens because it's a federation of branches,
04:41so we can't speak collectively for every branch.
04:46This is part of the DNA of the Green Party, is our internal democracy.
04:52We're very much a bottom-up party.
04:54And I think with the benefit of having seen what's happened at the weekend,
04:58personally, I think we need to look at a delegate conference from now on.
05:01I'll bring Harry in at this point. No drama party.
05:05Does that wash, do you think? Do you think people will believe it?
05:08Well, I don't know if people believe it. I certainly don't believe it.
05:12I thought the speech from Kenny and, in fact, all those who spoke at the conference from the Shadow Cabinet
05:19made an excellent job of their presentations.
05:23And I was put in mind, actually, of speeches that I heard at conference in the 1980s from Mrs Thatcher.
05:30And it's lovely to see a return to Thatcherite values, which I welcome.
05:36Well, that's a good jumping off point for the specific issues, because at both conferences, housing was a really central
05:42issue.
05:43For Kemi Badenoch, it was about inheritance tax and it was about the right of people to give their family
05:49home to the next generation.
05:51At the Greens, it was about rent control and making housing more affordable for young people in that sense.
05:57Can we start with the inheritance tax one, Harry?
06:00I mean, this is a £6 billion tax kind of break, if you like, for the wealthiest, for the wealthiest
06:085% or 10% who actually pay that tax on their homes to begin with.
06:12Most people don't. They go, they fall below the threshold.
06:15Is this the Conservatives looking after rich people?
06:17I would say not. I think this is one of the most unpopular taxes out there, full stop.
06:23I welcome Kemi's announcement, which was, I have to say, carefully hedged when we can afford it, when we're in
06:31a position to move on it.
06:32But in the event that the Conservatives are elected at the next election, obviously, I'm doing my bit to make
06:39sure that if they can be, they will be.
06:43But I very much welcome it.
06:45And I would also point to you to fiscal drag as well.
06:49The value of houses continues to rise, whereas we see nothing from this government in terms of adjusting the point
07:00at which taxes come in.
07:02And so I would suggest to you that by the time we get to the next parliament, those within the
07:08scope of this tax are likely to have increased quite dramatically.
07:12Mark?
07:13So we've got a contrast here. We've got the Conservative Party conference was about the haves and the Green Party
07:18conference was about the have-nots.
07:20Housing in Kent is a crisis point in terms of affordability.
07:25In the last decade, in Tunbridge and Walling, we've managed to deliver 63 units of social housing.
07:34This isn't good enough. The development is failing. It's failing our communities.
07:39People are being forced out of the areas that they've grown up in because they can't find anywhere to live.
07:46So fundamentally, we need to do more. We need to empower councils to build housing.
07:53We've got to deliver, at the moment, we have a requirement to have a five-year housing supply.
07:59Tunbridge and Walling, I think, is at 2.9 years housing supply, and that counts against us in terms of
08:06planning.
08:07We can do more if we had a large-length housing company in order to deliver our own social housing.
08:14But we do need investment from outside as well.
08:19This is where it gets difficult because Zach Polanski was talking about essentially a triple lock on rent, wasn't he?
08:25He was saying that rent either goes up by the consumer price index, by inflation, or by 2%, whichever is
08:31lower.
08:33And that's going to make landlords think twice about whether or not the investment of providing property is worth it.
08:42So housing is hard to afford for young people.
08:46We're now going to be in a position where are you worried that it might choke the supply of private
08:51rented accommodation for young people as well?
08:53Well, the problem we've got is developers can't offload their properties.
08:59So a huge amount of property in London especially has been bought up by overseas interests, and they are then
09:05renting it out.
09:09Housing, essentially, it's a form of shelter.
09:11And the problem we've got is it's no longer seen as that.
09:15It is a form of investment and a way to maintain wealth.
09:20And we have to do something to dramatically change that.
09:24There's lots of good mood music coming out of the Labour Party about social housing.
09:29They have to deliver. They have to empower local authorities.
09:33The business with the private sector housing, yes, it's a challenge because so many council houses are now in the
09:44ownership of the private sector.
09:45The private sector is now fulfilling a role which it hadn't done in previous decades.
09:52I want to make sure Harry has time to come back on this.
09:53And Harry, you said earlier you're happy to talk as a landlord as well, which is obviously part of your
09:57thing.
09:57So, I mean, if these kind of rent controls come in, what effect would it have on people who own
10:04property and rent property in that way?
10:06Mark referred to London. I'm not going to. I'm going to refer to Kent. This is a local TV station,
10:12a local show, and I'm going to refer to Kent.
10:14It has been demonstrated worldwide that rent controls reduce the number of properties available to rent because they are withdrawn
10:24from the market as landlords cannot make a sufficient return on capital.
10:29That has been consistent for as many years as you want to go back in connection with rent control worldwide,
10:35full stop.
10:36I would, I have to say, I think the chances of the Greens getting elected and actually bringing in legislation
10:44to this effect is most unlikely.
10:47I would have thought it would be a really foolish thing to do for the reasons stated.
10:52What the Greens would say, I'm sorry to jump in on Mark's behalf, but there is an estimated £600 million
10:58of housing benefit savings that could be attached to this because it would make it cheaper for local authorities to
11:04place people.
11:06Your party is talking about welfare cuts being a central part of how you're going to fund all of the
11:10things that you're promising.
11:11Isn't this a sensible step in that sense?
11:14I think you're conflating two things here. Rent controls is one thing. How the government equalises matters or benefits those
11:28who are in receipt of housing benefit is a different matter altogether.
11:35There are tenants that I take on who actually are in receipt of housing benefit, but there are many others
11:44who are not and it's those many others that would be adversely impacted.
11:48That's all we've got time for in this half. When we come back we'll be talking about special educational needs
11:51education. Stay with us.
15:05Welcome back to the Kent Politics Show on KMTV.
15:08Next tonight, parents have described their frustration with support for children with special educational needs.
15:13Last month, Ofsted released a damning report into Kent County Council's SEND provision.
15:18It described a lengthy and stressful process which led to dissatisfaction, anxiety and reduced confidence.
15:25Now the government has been warned that its plans to overhaul SEND by 2030 have put extra pressure on the
15:32system.
15:32Local democracy reporter Megan Shaw spoke to two parents about their experiences.
15:37It's been about a year now since she has not had a school placement.
15:43We've done our best, honestly, especially the sort of soft skills, the social skills to sort of build on those
15:50with after school clubs and local charity work.
15:52And also the local family hub has been really productive, really useful.
15:59But I mean, fundamentally, there's a real lack of communication that seems to be causing a lot of these issues,
16:08a lot of these delays.
16:10A kind of lack of communication, things not necessarily being sent out in a timely fashion, things not being done
16:16in a timely fashion.
16:17And also the sheer amount of admin and administrative work that is put on the parents to chase these things
16:23up.
16:24And we are the, you know, parents with SEND kids, we do not have much excess time.
16:31We do not have much emotional, mental capacity.
16:34We do not have the time to be doing this.
16:36And yet it's been pushed on us.
16:38And it just kind of feels like there needs to be an awful lot of change, really, frankly.
16:44You know, he wants to be an adult.
16:46And now I'm taking him to school because transport's taken away.
16:50And, you know, it's just a knock on effect.
16:53You know, our people, you know, our little people, they want to be independent.
17:00They want to go out to work.
17:02They want to get married.
17:03They want to have boyfriends, girlfriends live by themselves.
17:06But we're stopping that.
17:08We're stopping that because we're stopping them, you know, reaching their full potential, being able to do these things.
17:14And, you know, it's like in Kent, farming or catering.
17:20Well, I wouldn't want to do either.
17:21I get a choice.
17:22Why can't you go?
17:23There needs to be more choice.
17:25Why are we limiting?
17:26That's what we're doing.
17:27We are limiting people with additional needs.
17:30We are limiting their abilities.
17:31And it's wrong.
17:34We invited reform at KCC to join us for the show, but they were unable to make it.
17:38In a statement, Beverley Fordham, the Cabinet Member for Education and Skills, said,
17:42I know there will be families watching today who recognise some of the experiences described in the report,
17:47and I completely understand why they feel frustrated.
17:50The inspection found that there have been improvements, but it also found that those improvements are not being experienced consistently
17:56enough across Kent.
17:57We agree with that.
17:58For me, this isn't about defending the system where it isn't working well enough.
18:02It's about making sure we put those things right.
18:04We're focused on the areas inspectors identified, on listening to families, and on making sure that the progress already being
18:10made is felt by more children and young people across the county.
18:14There's more work to do, but we are absolutely committed to continuing that improvement.
18:19Well, still here with me is the KCC Green leader Mark Hook and his Conservative counterpart Harry Rayner.
18:25I know, obviously, both of you are in opposition at Kent County Council, but for an awful lot of people
18:30out there, they're not really concerned necessarily about the political divisions.
18:33They're worried about the institution, the authority.
18:37And these problems go back.
18:39This is not the first Bad Ofsted report that SEND provision have had.
18:42In fact, 2019 and 2022, when the council was under Conservative administrations, there was a similar story being said.
18:49I wonder what you would say to the parents.
18:52Harry, I'll start with you.
18:53What would you say to those parents that raised those concerns?
18:56Well, in particular, Rachel Thomas, the last parent to speak there, I think has a very justifiable case in the
19:04circumstances.
19:05The Reform Administration put through a change of policy in 2025 between SEND pupils over 16 and over 18, which
19:17has been extremely detrimental.
19:19You heard there that Rachel Thomas' child has lost the access to vehicular transport.
19:29And we see the sort of tearful scenes often that come before the Appeals Committee, which I certainly said that
19:38Mark and colleagues also attend.
19:41And to be honest with you, it is heart-rending to see that situation.
19:47But Reform have a majority there, and they drive through the sort of cost savings that their budget requires.
19:58So never let this be – you pointed to the situation in 2022 under Conservatives.
20:04The fact is that changes were made under Roger Goff, who was then the relevant Cabinet member, and previously in
20:132019.
20:14The situation is that improvements were made that have now been lost under reform.
20:20And it is the budget that drives this, it's reductions in the costs that are reflected in the budget.
20:27And here we are back again preparing – and even then there are –
20:30Mark, would you agree that it was on the right track before reform taken?
20:33Did the Conservatives have it right?
20:35They did.
20:36There's been progress.
20:37There was progress.
20:38There's an element of progress here.
20:41But Harry's right.
20:43The changes to post-16 and post-18 transport have been absolutely – the ramifications have been catastrophic for some
20:51families.
20:52So you've now got people, young people, who are sitting at home because they can't get to their placement.
20:59We need to see a transition to adulthood so that people who are in receipt of SEND educational assistance can
21:09live fulfilling lives to their full potential.
21:12That isn't the case, and it is heartbreaking.
21:15The report also points out that families that have got the wherewithal to really challenge and push their cases are
21:23doing pretty well.
21:24Other people are being left behind.
21:26Families are having to repeatedly make their case to the different aspects of the service, which is unforgivable.
21:35We should only need to tell your story once.
21:37That's where we should be.
21:39And it's the geographical spread as well.
21:41It seems to be a real postcode lottery here on the level of service that you're getting.
21:46So it's a damning report.
21:48We know the background to this, don't we?
21:50Kent is a large administrative county.
21:53It has faced extraordinary financial pressure, not least because it has an extraordinarily high volume proportionately of EHCPs and everything
22:03else.
22:03There are very few other authorities in the country that come close to the level of demand for these services
22:09that Kent has.
22:11And, of course, reform would say that financial pressure, which they inherited, which has been a problem for Kent County
22:20Council for a long time, is the big challenge here, wouldn't they?
22:25And they might say that when they hear Kemi Badenoch standing up at the party conference this week saying, we're
22:31going to do this, this and this, and it's the welfare budget that we're going to take the savings from,
22:36that the Conservatives are basically pulling the same trick that they have, wouldn't they?
22:40Well, the budget position, as far as KCC is concerned, is currently being driven by reform.
22:46And it is reform's budgetary savings that are leading to the situation that Mrs Thomas has now.
22:52And I want to make another point as well.
22:54It is, in my experience, it is those areas represented by reform councillors that suffer the greatest over this, in
23:02particular East Kent.
23:04East Kent is the biggest drawer on both adults, and in this case children and SEND, and is effectively subsidised
23:14by West Kent.
23:16And when you look at the geographic distribution of reform, it is reform who are effectively penalising their own people
23:26in terms of the fact they heavily represent East Kent.
23:32Mark, do you think constantly, whenever there is talk about new political kind of giveaways, we're going to do tax
23:38here, we're going to do tax there, it's the welfare budget that's always talked about.
23:40Do you think that creates a slightly hostile culture against the parents who are fighting to get the services their
23:45children need, that there is a scepticism?
23:47Well, why would we give you this money? Why would you give me this service? Why would we pay for
23:51that?
23:51I think there's a distrust of the HCP kind of system, the way that the assessments are carried out.
24:02And I think that's unfortunate, people are kind of trying it on, which is completely, that's why the EHCPs are
24:09in place, to make sure you've got a really, and the quality of those has improved.
24:15It's the review of the EHCPs, which is really not being done properly.
24:23But I think, we've had comments from councillors previously about people trying it on, and it's just, it's really, really
24:33unhelpful.
24:33We know that there's a real need here in Kent. We've got, it's not a dramatically higher number of EHCPs
24:42in Kent than other neighbouring counties like Surrey, for instance.
24:46But we have got a challenge, but it's, the challenge we have is we have to, there's a safety valve
24:51agreement.
24:52If we don't comply with the safety valve agreement, then there's a, the government have committed to a 90%
24:58write-off of the high needs debt, which is an enormous £300 million debt.
25:05We can't gamble with that. We need to make sure that we are performing, and at the moment we're not.
25:11There's been warnings this week that the EHCP system is being overhauled, that by, between 2030 and 2035, there's going
25:18to be a big change to how this whole thing works.
25:21But the warning this week was that because of that, a lot of parents are now rushing to get EHCPs
25:25in place so that they have, they have the kind of care needs established before this change happens and they
25:31get reassessed.
25:33Because Kent has had so much problem processing these and getting these through, is that going to create another bottleneck
25:38for parents who are trying to get that care?
25:39Do you think we might be affected by that?
25:42Potentially, and there's no question about that. If that manifests itself in Kent, the numbers or the reference you make
25:49is actually a national approach to this.
25:52Whether that is reflected in Kent, we shall see. But there's no question that this situation, in Kent in particular,
26:00is driven by a reforms budget.
26:03And we will see that in the months to come.
26:05If any other party was in charge, would they really have the headroom to do anything differently?
26:09Well, you know, the answer is partly this, that when reform have the opportunity to be abrasive with the Labour
26:19Party in power, they take every opportunity to do so.
26:22So, if you were more minded to perhaps increase the amount of funding that is received from central government, would
26:32you not do much more to be ameliorative to them and seek to improve your budget?
26:39That's all we have time for today. Thank you to both of my guests for joining us.
26:41Stay tuned for all of the latest news on Kent tonight, and we'll see you again next week.
26:57We'll see you again next week.