- 2 hours ago
Catch up with all the latest political news across the county with Rob Bailey.
This week he was joined by recent Green Party member Cllr Diccon Spain of Ashford Borough Council and Cllr Robbie Lammas, representing Reform for Medway Council, to discuss party defections and ongoing water outages.
This week he was joined by recent Green Party member Cllr Diccon Spain of Ashford Borough Council and Cllr Robbie Lammas, representing Reform for Medway Council, to discuss party defections and ongoing water outages.
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TVTranscript
00:22Welcome to the Kemp Politics Show on KMTV. I'm Rob Bailey. Coming up later, we'll discuss
00:27how Kemp politicians should respond to a record-breaking spring heat wave and another week of water
00:33supply problems. But while we were all trying not to turn red, three Kemp politicians turned
00:39a different colour. Two Maidstone councillors defected to the Greens this week, as did Labor's
00:44former deputy leader in Ashford. He's here to talk about his decision. And with reforms
00:49leader Nigel Farage continuing to face questions about his finances, we'll also hear from a
00:54senior reform councillor in Medway. But first, here's how Rosie Duffield MP reacted to councillors
01:00defecting to the Greens.
01:01I mean, I think that just shows how fed up they are with the current government and regime.
01:06I mean, I don't personally believe the Greens are the answer. I don't think I've heard a
01:10single word from any of them on this heat wave, for example, and they're meant to be all about
01:14climate change and the environment. So that's a big disappointment. But I think, you know,
01:20I can understand the frustration. We've also seen a lot of splintering amongst other parties. And
01:26people just generally feel that, particularly this government, which was supposed to bring
01:30about change and be the answer, has let them down. And that's such a shame.
01:36And here with me is Dickon Spain, the newest member of Ashford's Green Group, and Robbie Lammas,
01:40a former special adviser to the Conservatives and now reforms deputy leader in Medway. Thanks for
01:45joining me today. Dickon, obviously, it's been a week, a really big week for you. You were a flag
01:51bearer for Labour in Ashford, the deputy leader of the party, and now a Green. What made you make
01:57that decision?
01:58Well, it's around values. I feel like my values haven't changed, but the Labour parties have
02:03gradually over quite a long period of time, and they really ran out of road for me. And I think
02:09a lack of ambition, actually, as well was a major thing. But probably like a lot of us,
02:14I looked at Andy Burnham and tried to assess what sort of that might mean for the Labour
02:19party if he gets in. And that's by no means certain, obviously, with Makerfield being quite
02:25strongly reform-backed. But yeah, and I didn't think that he was going to make enough difference,
02:31particularly around nationalisation of water, which I know we're going to come onto water.
02:35But I think there's some critical stuff that needs to sit in national ownership rather than
02:40national control. We've seen what's happened with national control in terms
02:44of South East water and Thames water. And I don't think that's enough. So I think there's
02:49a bit of tinkering around the edges. And I thought at that point, I've got to sort of reassess. And
02:55it's one of the most difficult decisions I made in my life. But I feel more comfortable I'm sitting
03:00in a place where the values are aligned with my values, really.
03:03I have to ask you a question about democratic legitimacy. You've moved over to the Green Party,
03:08but no by-election. Do you think that that serves the voters of your ward well?
03:15Well, I go back to really, I mean, I've, although technically I've defected from Labour,
03:23I feel like the Labour have defected from me. I mean, my values haven't changed. And so therefore,
03:28the values that people would have voted for me on in 2023 will be the same values I've now got.
03:34So I think in that situation, there is no change. And I'm still serving residents as best I can. So
03:42I think on those bases, and plus, I think there's an unnecessary expense of probably about 25,000
03:49to actually rerun elections. I don't think it's justified to do that. But yeah.
03:54Well, Robbie, I'm having flashbacks, because last October, you moved from the Conservatives to reform.
03:59In that week, you came onto the sofa here, we had a conversation. And in fact, I asked you the
04:03same question and gave the same answer. But with more councillors now switching,
04:07we've seen two in Maidstone this week switching to the Greens, one in Dartford switching from the
04:11Greens to become an independent. At what point do we have to say that this kind of reshuffling around
04:17needs to have some input from the electorate?
04:20You know, I am somewhat sympathetic to what you say, to be honest. I've had some residents say to me,
04:26good on you, Rob, you made the right decision. I've had other residents say to me that we've
04:31chosen a Conservative, and you're no longer a Conservative. So I am somewhat sympathetic to
04:36the idea. I always personally was pro-having a by-election with my defection. I wanted that,
04:41actually. I was not allowed to have it. But I have certain...
04:45Not allowed because of the party? The reform wouldn't do it? Or...
04:49Well, there was a couple of reasons. There was the general policy of the reform party,
04:53but there was also the idea that we're almost at the end of the road in terms of not just
04:57this
04:58electoral cycle locally here in Medway, where we're recording today, but also in terms of
05:03reorganisation. So people were going to have a say. You very rarely have a by-election that close to
05:07the end. But, you know, I do very much respect what local people say. I get it. I do get
05:13it.
05:14Dickon, I have to ask you about your new home then, the Green Party. Obviously, you're joining
05:19that party at a point where its leader is facing some scrutiny. Zach Polanski didn't pay council tax
05:25on a houseboat, which he was living on. And that is now being investigated. Do you think that
05:35voters out there will look at that and think, well, here's a party who have a very traditional
05:39left-wing tax and spend kind of agenda, but the leader doesn't pay the taxes that he should?
05:45Does it undermine the party? I think the situation with Zach is obviously
05:50Walthamstow is still looking at that. So I think it's not clear what should have been paid. But as
05:55soon as it becomes clear, I know that Zach Polanski has said that he will pay whatever's due. And I
06:00think my understanding is that he's paying council tax elsewhere at the same time. So I think the
06:05situation is somewhat confused. So as soon as Walthamstow actually settle on a position and actually say,
06:10well, this is what's due, he said he will pay it. And I think that's the right thing to do.
06:14And I think he's the kind of person that if there was a mistake, he would admit what's going on
06:20and
06:20apologise for that. But I think we need to see what happens with Walthamstow and where they land
06:25really with that.
06:26You got a take on that, Robbie?
06:29I mean, it's a bit shady. But, you know, things do happen with this kind of situation. I mean,
06:37I've had a flat in London for a few years, and there's council tax between two places. It's
06:43possible there could be some legitimate confusion. But as long as he corrects the record and sorts
06:47the problems out, then I think that will be fine.
06:49Correcting the record is an interesting thing to kind of go to there. Because as you know,
06:54for several weeks now, Nigel Farage has been facing some really serious questions about a
06:59£5 million donation that was given to him by a Thai-based crypto billionaire, Chris Harbourn.
07:06Nigel Farage's story about why he was given that £5 million has shifted around a little bit. It was for
07:12security. It was a Brexit bonus. There are no receipts that anyone has seen for exactly how it was
07:18spent. Do you think your leader needs to come out and correct the record on where that money came from?
07:24Well, he's now subject to a parliamentary investigation. So the parliamentary investigation
07:29will have to run its course. He'll have to comply with that. Because, I mean, they have powers all the
07:34way up to expulsion to the House, essentially. There's a way you have to go about that. But those
07:41powers do exist. They have the teeth if they need to use them. But his office has said that he'll
07:45fully comply with the investigation. My understanding is that he has been.
07:49So I think, whatever the circumstances are, we'll have to come out. He says there's no problem with it.
07:56It's an interesting thing, isn't it? Because we're very personality-driven politics these days. Do you
08:01think we could ever get to a point where Nigel Farage is a problem for reform? In the way that
08:07Tony
08:07Blair is, say, a problem for Labour now, and in a way that, right at this moment in time,
08:11Zach Polanski is a bit of a problem for the Green Party. Although we'll see how that plays out.
08:17Nigel Farage is a formidable communicator. He's able to tap into and understand people in a way that
08:23few other politicians are able to do. He's extremely talented in that regard. I think that's why he's
08:28done so well. Many people look to Nigel Farage for their leadership. I can't see him being a problem,
08:36necessarily, for reform. But I do think his leadership is linked to the success of reform.
08:42So if there's an issue with Farage down the line, then I think there will be an issue with reform
08:45down the line. But I don't see that problem occurring at the moment.
08:51Okay. This feels very natural. It feels very distant from Ken. But obviously,
08:55what we're talking about here is how politics is funded and how politicians are funded. Nigel Farage
09:01received a personal donation of £5 million from a man who has also donated £22 million to reform
09:07nationally to fund campaigns and everything else. Deacon, do you think that that has relevance to
09:12the way that reform conducts itself, for example, at Kent County Council? Is there a problem here that
09:17could be relevant to Kent? I think the issue that Robbie's sort of touching on and you're
09:26in the area of influence of politicians. I think we have to be very, very careful across all parties
09:32that our politicians are not influenced in ways that are not in the interests of people of the country.
09:38So I think that's where, and I'm pleased to see, you know, proper investigations going on
09:43into all politicians, really, to prove that they're actually acting in the right way. But it is an influence
09:49thing. And that's a bit of a concern for me with the Tony Blair stuff from the angle of Oracle.
09:56Oracle
09:56is obviously a major supporter of the Tony Blair Institute. And that would tend to worry me that
10:02the positions he's taking on AI, but cutting certain things may not be the interests of the people of
10:10the country, but are in the interests of big corporates. So I think we've got to be very,
10:14very careful with this stuff going forward. And so that would be my concern, really influence.
10:18The word influencer is one that we band around in a very strange way. We talk about teenagers
10:23with 15,000 followers on TikTok being influencers, but Chris Harbourn's an influencer, isn't he? I
10:28mean, £22 million investment over the span of the party from being Brexit party to reform party,
10:34£5 million he's given to Nigel Farage, a million pounds he gave to Boris Johnson. This is a man who
10:39clearly wants something in return for that money. Is that something that as someone inside reform,
10:43do you ever feel pressure in that way? Does the funding of the party affect decisions that are
10:48being taken?
10:50No. I mean, obviously I was elected on a conservative ticket, so I've not benefited from any money that
10:55reform has received nationally. Most local politicians are actually elected on the back of local fundraising
11:01efforts at garden parties. I do a famous PIMS party, for example, with the best spread in Kent. My mum
11:07helps me out with that, so I have to plug that. So we're not linked in that way. But you're
11:11right about the
11:12idea of influence. I mean, the alternative funding model is state funding, which countries that have
11:17adopted it hasn't worked. There is a place of private money to fund politics and political parties.
11:24But what's good about this country is the way that is regulated and the laws around donations are
11:29very, very clear. And there are very clear set processes to investigate cases where questions
11:35should be asked. And that's where we're at at the moment.
11:38Excellent. OK, well, it's time for a short break. When we come back, we'll be asking,
11:42is Kent prepared for more extreme summer heat? Stay with us.
12:21you cannot be able to rob us.
12:21training together, we've to turn our team up here.
12:22I will knock us out.
12:22Let's try again.
12:22Click and start off with the title of the team is to decide what brainpsak
12:22as a lucky one has been activated.
12:22Now we'll choose you.
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15:06Wellcome back to the Kent Politics show on KMTV .
15:09Next, thousands of Kent homes were without cold water or flushing toilets for the Hottest
15:14May bank holiday on record.
15:16The taps ran dry again for as many as 22,000 homes in Ashford, Maidstone, Whitstable and Sevenoaks.
15:24Southeast Water said it was because of high demand for water during the year's first heatwave.
15:29Earlier this month, the company's CEO, David Hinton, announced he would stand down later this year
15:34after a series of similar supply issues across Kent and Sussex since last December.
15:39Megan Shaw has been following the story this week.
15:42A beautiful day by the sea and not a drop to drink,
15:48as Whitstable becomes the latest region in Kent to be plunged into water outages.
15:53According to South East Water, 8,000 residents in the town are without water to drink, wash or flush toilets
16:01with.
16:02And although tourists might have had their day out by the sea ruined,
16:06it's the business owners who worry they might struggle to stay afloat.
16:12Nobody can use the loo, can get water.
16:16All the hospitality, pubs, restaurants have all let to close.
16:21And we don't know when they're going to reopen.
16:24And that is a big, big worry.
16:27Because obviously it's people's livelihoods.
16:29Hospitality venues in particular, unable to serve water, maintain hygiene or wash dishes, were forced to close.
16:37On a busy bank holiday weekend, on store holiday for the kids,
16:42we'd be looking to earn somewhere between £700 and £1,000.
16:47So it's quite a dent in the finances, yeah.
16:51Hot weather and the half-term holidays are normally very profitable times for businesses,
16:56particularly hospitality venues in a tourist town like Whitstable.
17:00But rather than being able to enjoy serving customers on a busy day,
17:04businesses are left wondering when will they be able to reopen.
17:08It's got a domino effect on all the suppliers.
17:11You know, should we get our weekend produce in?
17:13Some people would already have that in the door.
17:14I know we have.
17:15We've just had a cheese supply come in from Italy, which is not something you can stop.
17:19It's pre-ordered a week in advance.
17:22And it's just the unknown.
17:24It's choppy waters for traders in Whitstable, but they aren't alone.
17:29South East Water confirmed that their supplies have failed 14,000 customers across Kent,
17:35including Herne Bay and Ashford and its surrounding areas.
17:39For those in Whitstable, they explain that they are without supply
17:42because the storage reservoirs which serve the area have reached a critical level.
17:48Parts of Whitstable will see supplies returning later today,
17:51and this will continue through to tomorrow morning.
17:53Tap water is likely to remain intermittent across the weekend.
17:59Hospitality venues in seaside towns like Whitstable rely on busy summers
18:03to help keep them going in the winter.
18:06But now, even summer seasons seem far from plain sailing.
18:11Megan Shaw, The Cane TV, in Whitstable.
18:15And still here with me is Dickon Spain of Ashford's Green Group
18:17and Robbie Lamass, the Reforms Deputy Leader in Medway.
18:21Dickon, obviously, you're in Charing.
18:23You're in one of the areas where people have been affected by this.
18:25How concerned are you about this, particularly during this weather?
18:30Well, I mean, the whole thing's an absolute disgrace.
18:32I mean, fortunately, we just live just outside the area that's affected,
18:36but up on the hill and beyond, it's just a huge area
18:40that they're taps on and nothing will come out,
18:43which is a basic human right.
18:45We should all, in this country, we have to turn a tap on and get water.
18:48So I think it just proves the point that what's happening at the moment is not working.
18:54People do not want to see a tap that doesn't work
18:57and then see at the same time billions of pounds going offshore from these companies
19:02or millions of pounds bonuses going to the bosses of these companies
19:05and then rivers being filled with sewage.
19:08So we've got to do something different.
19:09We can't keep repeating the same thing.
19:12And I think that's, for me, that's national ownership
19:15because we've got to get these companies back into national ownership
19:18and get them sorted out, get that money that's going offshore,
19:22invested in improving reservoirs, pipework and the rest of it.
19:26Robbie, people were baying for blood earlier in the year,
19:29particularly after the repeated problems in Tunbridge Wells.
19:31They wanted resignations.
19:33They got them, although on a kind of protracted timescale.
19:36But the fact is that that doesn't change anything, does it?
19:38I think it could actually change things
19:40because here in Medway, we don't have the same water supply issues
19:45that you're seeing elsewhere in Kent,
19:47yet we face the same geography and we face the same challenges.
19:50A lot of this is to do with the lack of maintenance
19:53and infrastructure investment over a long period of time by south-east water.
19:58For example, in Kent, we rely a lot on groundwater to resupply our stocks,
20:04but we need to build more reservoirs.
20:06And they've had plans to do that elsewhere in Kent,
20:08but they've never got on with doing them because they've been expensive.
20:12It's not good enough at what is occurring,
20:14but they lose 100 million litres of water a day due to leaks in pipes.
20:21That's completely unacceptable.
20:23The other point we need to look at also is what they're saying
20:26in terms of the planning phases for building homes.
20:29When you have to secure planning commission,
20:31which you'll know a lot about as well,
20:33also being on the planning committee in your area,
20:35you have to go to the water companies and ask them,
20:38do we have sufficient water supply?
20:40It's down to them to tell the planning committee
20:43if there is sufficient water supply.
20:45Clearly, they've not been given the right figures out
20:47and lots of homes that have got planning commission
20:49shouldn't be able to be built if there isn't adequate infrastructure.
20:55Infrastructure is the key here, isn't it?
20:56We haven't had a reservoir built in Kent since the 1970s.
20:59Broad Oak is a site that has been identified outside of Canterbury.
21:04There have been diggers on site, in fact, this year.
21:07But we're still 10 years away from having an actual working reservoir at least.
21:11So, Dickon, what do we do?
21:13How does this get used?
21:13We've got to view this issue a lot more seriously
21:15because I think this is a national security issue.
21:19If somebody was attacking our country,
21:20they would want to knock out our water supply.
21:22We've got companies that are actually knocking out our water supply,
21:25not all across every area of Kent, but in some.
21:29So the level of seriousness I think we've got to bring to this is high.
21:32And I think, as I said, things are not working.
21:35And I think under national ownership,
21:37then we can plough the money back that's leaving the country in some cases
21:42back into actually doing this stuff, building reservoirs.
21:44We've got to get serious about bringing this back under control.
21:48And it's a basic level of service that we expect
21:52and should absolutely just work.
21:55It's who pays for the bill to fix up the pipes.
21:58Are you going to charge the average person who's been suffering
22:00or are you going to charge the people who've made a profit
22:02without providing the level of service that they expect?
22:05I'm on the side of actually finding and getting the money out
22:07of the people who've made the money from this endeavour
22:09and not passing that bill on to people
22:11until, of course, it's all fixed up and running as it should be.
22:16People are going to be looking at this saying,
22:17well, we're due another hot summer this year.
22:20Are we just going to expect this to keep happening?
22:22Are there going to be families maybe with young children
22:24who are going to wake up one day and find it's 36 degrees outside
22:28and the taps aren't running?
22:29It shouldn't happen.
22:30Yeah, it's very worrying and it shouldn't happen.
22:32I absolutely agree.
22:33And we've got to find a way of making it better.
22:36We can't have this going on.
22:37And the fact is that no quick fix.
22:38All of these fixes are fixes that shoot us off another decade,
22:42essentially, aren't they?
22:42We don't have a fix for this that means that families aren't going to next year.
22:45Well, no, there are certain quick...
22:46So there's been issues with the sort of emergency measures
22:50of supplying bottled water.
22:51It's not been quick enough or good enough.
22:52The chronic failure of lack of communication we saw earlier,
22:56and Helen Waitley, one of the local MPs in Kent,
22:58was quite right to call for the resignation
23:00and that has now been received.
23:02That was completely unacceptable.
23:05So when people know that there are issues to be expected
23:09and that's communicated in a time
23:10and sufficient replacement water is provided,
23:12at least that's better than the status quo.
23:14So that's an immediate improvement.
23:16But fixing the pipes are saying that will cost a lot of money
23:18but can be done relatively quickly.
23:20Of course, the big infrastructure builds do take time.
23:22But this all should be taking place.
23:25This company has failed and let people down
23:27and the same issues are not seen everywhere at the same scale.
23:30This is a problem with this company, really, in southeastern water.
23:34I think we both agree on the need for change, definitely.
23:37I think probably we'll agree to disagree on the method of doing it
23:40and I think licence revocation and taking them over.
23:44But, you know, I think we'll agree to disagree on the way that we...
23:48I'll ask you about the wider problem that was caused by heat this week.
23:51I mean, obviously, we've seen a record-breaking spring heatwave.
23:54It's not even summer yet.
23:57And the Climate Change Committee has come out with some recommendations
24:01on the back of the kind of heat that we've seen this week.
24:03Things like mandatory air conditioning in care homes,
24:06in nurseries, in schools.
24:10Dickon, I mean, is that something that you think,
24:13treating the symptoms of climate change effectively
24:15is something that we should be investing money in immediately?
24:18Well, because of the position we're in,
24:19we've obviously got to adapt to the realities of where we're at.
24:22So we can't bury our heads in the sand and pretend it's not happening.
24:27So we've got to protect people.
24:28That's obviously a number one priority for any government,
24:31any political party.
24:32You've got to protect the people of this country.
24:34In terms of how we go about it longer term,
24:36I think we seriously need to look at
24:39how we're generating the electricity that we're generating.
24:42Obviously, the cheapest form of doing that is wind and solar.
24:46So we really need to build that out.
24:48But we need to look at base load future stuff.
24:53And I would say, and this is my personal opinion,
24:55looking towards geothermal,
24:57which is a natural transition from oil drilling,
25:01same techniques and technologies used.
25:04I mean, geothermal relies on geography.
25:07So if you don't have the geography of geothermal,
25:09you can't have it.
25:10Where they have geography of geothermal,
25:12you have geothermal.
25:13You can't just manufacture geothermal.
25:14Well, it's moved on, actually.
25:16You can drill in almost any area now with the latest technology.
25:19The cheapest form of energy is energy intensive.
25:23It's nuclear followed by coal, natural gas, oil.
25:27They're much more energy rich than the other forms of energy.
25:30The truth is that we need all forms of energy
25:32as much as humanly possible
25:33if we're to compete in any way
25:36with the advancements in technology.
25:37For example, artificial intelligence,
25:39a report in America said they needed to double their energy supply
25:41just to supply the demands to make...
25:44And not only their energy supply for AI data farms,
25:47they have to supply water as well,
25:49which puts more pressure...
25:50But you can do that in coastal areas, for example.
25:52There's lots of sort of buried stuff
25:55in terms of the coast to use the water as natural cooling.
25:58But going back to the issue about air conditioning,
26:00I think there's a case to be argued about
26:02sort of regulations on building.
26:05You know, if you have an old building,
26:07they're often cooler because you can open the windows.
26:09If you open the windows at night and let the cold in
26:11and shut them in the day,
26:12like you do when you're on holiday in Spain, for example,
26:14the house can stay cool.
26:15But if you've got these modern buildings
26:17with these windows that you can't open,
26:19how many times have you been to a hotel
26:20and you get this sort of two-inch crack of doom
26:22or the windows are sealed shut?
26:25It's terrible.
26:25Well, with the two-inch crack of doom,
26:26I'm afraid that's all we've got time for today.
26:29But we'll be back next week with more politics.
26:32Stay with us for Kent tonight with all today's news.
26:34See you next week.
26:35Lovely phrase.
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