00:00Barry Donadio, who's a member of the Maryland Republican Party.
00:04Welcome, both of you.
00:05Scott and Barry are back with us.
00:07Scott, make it make sense, would you?
00:08What's going on?
00:10Well, William, first of all, Donald Trump's primary interest is Donald Trump.
00:15As temperamental, as chaotic as he is, he's trying to make a profit.
00:21And at the heart of what has happened in recent days,
00:24not only with the purchasing of Russian diesel fuel,
00:28but the cutoff of intelligence against Russia's aerial attacks
00:33and then the restrictions on Starlink,
00:35again, threatening not just Ukrainians but U.S. personnel during those attacks.
00:41At the heart of that is the Kremlin is pitching deals worth tens of billions of dollars
00:45to Trump's envoys, Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff.
00:49They include the $22 billion sale of the overseas assets of the Russian energy company, Luke Oil.
00:55It includes a proposal for U.S. and Russia to renew the Nord Stream pipelines.
01:00And it includes other projects which have been pitched to Witkoff in particular
01:06by Putin's close associate, Kirill Dmitriev, since spring 2025.
01:10Any evidence that they benefit personally from those deals?
01:12Absolutely.
01:14The $22 billion consortium, or sorry, $22 billion sale of Luke Oil's overseas assets
01:20is being proposed to a consortium which includes a major donor in California
01:27to the Trump campaign, $2 million recently, and three Middle Eastern businessmen.
01:33Two of those Middle Eastern businessmen are linked to Steve Witkoff,
01:37his sons and Donald Trump's sons through the cryptocurrency firm World Liberty Financial,
01:44which is headed by Witkoff's son.
01:46And the third Middle Eastern businessmen is linked to Jared Kushner
01:49through the proposal for hundreds of millions of dollars for high-end condos
01:54in Albania, a proposal which has sparked a nationwide protest.
01:59If all of that's true, Barry, it does rather pose a difficult question for you
02:05and for every America at this point, doesn't it?
02:07Is America for sale under Donald Trump?
02:11Thanks for having me.
02:13No, I don't think so.
02:14He brings up great points.
02:15I'm a Trump supporter, and many Trump supporters don't want this.
02:20They don't agree with this.
02:22The only thing I can say is we know that President Trump is wired like a businessman,
02:27and he is probably putting the United States in a position to where when this war is over,
02:35and it will come to an end, that we can begin trade again with all parties
02:41and work towards a friendship.
02:44And if we look at the history of the United States,
02:46every single opponent we've ever had we end up being allies with.
02:51So I think that's what he's trying to do.
02:54Right now, I would say to him not to do this diesel deal.
03:00We can get diesel from somewhere else.
03:02How about that?
03:02We should – anywhere.
03:04Yeah, anywhere but Russia.
03:05And I understand that maybe he's trying to get some kind of leverage over Putin
03:11and saying, well, we could do this deal.
03:14Putin might get a flavor for the money that he's getting out of this,
03:19and Trump can say, okay, well, if you want this deal to continue,
03:24you're going to have to, like, come to the table and get this war to an end.
03:27Maybe it's just, like, wetting his beak for what could really be in the future of a trade.
03:32That's the best I can come up with.
03:33But you don't want him to do it.
03:34You don't – so you don't believe that's what's going on.
03:36You don't want him to do this.
03:37No, I really don't.
03:38You know, and listen, I've worked with –
03:40The deal's illegal in any case, isn't it?
03:43That's a question for the lawyers.
03:45Well, it's a breach of the sanctions law that Donald Trump signed himself just a few weeks ago, isn't it?
03:50Named after Lindsey Graham.
03:52You know, if in a court of law it's just determined or some kind of an ethics board, you know,
03:57that is what it is.
03:59But I would say most Republicans would just be saying, well, you know, maybe not do this one.
04:06All right.
04:06So, Scott, I mean, that – and I get Barry's point.
04:09He's trying to make sense of this.
04:11We all are, right?
04:12And one argument that some people put – I think Barry's giving us a version of this argument – is,
04:17you know, Trump's a businessman.
04:18He's playing 4D chess.
04:20He knows what he's doing even if the rest of us don't.
04:25No, I'm sorry.
04:26I don't go with speculation.
04:29I go with what the facts are.
04:31And Donald Trump is transactional and is seeking a profit, and he's willing to sell out Ukraine to do it.
04:36If you're actually trying to get leverage with the Russians, you would not buy the diesel fuel or cut off
04:44intelligence to Ukraine before Russia entered negotiations.
04:48You would wait until Russia entered negotiations and until they had agreed to a ceasefire to say, okay, now we'll
04:55buy diesel fuel.
04:56Now we'll lift sanctions.
04:58Now we will unfreeze your assets.
05:01But, of course, Russia has not even had to make even another hint of a commitment to return to talks.
05:06And they're not going to because the backdrop for why this is so serious is Russia is going to try
05:12to force Ukraine to surrender over the winter with these aerial attacks.
05:16Now, this is a de facto alliance that Trump has established with the Russians, but it's magnified by others around
05:23Trump who we need to be clear about as well.
05:24And this includes the vice president, J.D. Vance, it includes the defense secretary, Pete Hagoseth, and the close advisor,
05:31Stephen Miller.
05:32They do not believe in European and Ukrainian security.
05:36J.D. Vance said this in February of 2025 at the Munich Security Conference, just before he ambushed Vladimir Zelensky
05:43in the White House.
05:46J.D. Vance, the reason why we avoided the precipice at that point is that Europe and Ukraine reached out
05:53to others in the administration, many of whom have worked with NATO for years, many of whom have worked with
05:59European intelligence services for years or with European financial institutions, and said, do you want to go there?
06:04And there is a split in the administration right now.
06:07There are those, notably the CIA director, John Radcliffe, who do not want to go this way.
06:13And it is vital that Republicans like Barry reach out to folks in the administration who actually believe in Ukraine's
06:19and Europe's security and don't make excuses for Trump here.
06:24None of this 40-chest nonsense.
06:26This is an existential threat not only to European and Ukrainian security, but also to American security.
06:32Barry?
06:34Yeah, I mean, as a soldier, former soldier, my grandfather was a soldier in World War II, went to Normandy,
06:40fought side by side with the U.K.
06:44You know, strategically, it's a bad move.
06:48That's the fact.
06:50Politically and business-wise, there's something in the details that we're probably not hearing about yet.
06:57And I think it's really setting up to working with not just Ukraine, but Russia.
07:05This is what I'm trying to understand, Barry.
07:07You're giving them the benefit of the doubt speculatively.
07:10You're saying there might be something else going on here that I'm not privy to, right?
07:13So let's give them the benefit of the doubt.
07:15But other people will be saying, look, this looks like – I mean, this is how world leaders are calling
07:22it out.
07:22So Donald Trump has taken the United States across the line and made the United States an ally of Russia.
07:29He's calling not for Putin to be removed from office, but for Zelensky to be removed from office.
07:36And he's backing, as he always has done, Vladimir Putin at every turn.
07:41Can you find an example of where he doesn't back him and back Zelensky?
07:46You don't find those examples very often, right?
07:49This looks to some people like either Putin's got something on him or there's a corruption thread going through all
07:57of this that makes sense of it.
07:58But one thing that doesn't make sense of it is America's place since the Second World War in global politics.
08:08Right. Well, listen, the bottom line is most Americans agree with what you're saying.
08:14And I agree.
08:15You know, I don't want this deal.
08:17I don't want to do anything that's going to help the Russian war machine.
08:21I think if the war doesn't end soon and Putin continues, he may end up like Mussolini from his own
08:28people.
08:29He might end up – he may.
08:31Let's not go that far.
08:32But he is – you think this is actually helping the Russian war machine?
08:37Well, if –
08:38This deal.
08:39In a slight way.
08:41I mean, they're spending the likes of a billion dollars a day to keep this war going.
08:46This deal keeps their war machine going another six or seven days.
08:50And that's all in the big grand scheme of things.
08:52A couple of weeks, apparently.
08:53Something like that.
08:53Yeah, if that.
08:55But if we look at the business aspect of it, what Trump might be really trying to do behind –
09:02and he's unpredictable.
09:03We can all agree President Trump is unpredictable completely, which keeps him kind of on the cutting edge of what's
09:10really – you know, what is really he doing?
09:13It also keeps our opponents guessing.
09:16Nobody can really –
09:17Keeps your allies, your NATO allies guessing as well.
09:19You do rather want – you do want predictability in an ally, don't you?
09:23I think – me personally, yeah.
09:26I do.
09:27But in no way, shape, or form does he want Russia to win.
09:30And here's why.
09:31Let's remember the UK minerals deal.
09:35That all falls apart.
09:37We've got deals with Ukraine.
09:41Business deals with Ukraine.
09:43It's not going to benefit us that they just cease to exist.
09:47All right.
09:47Well, have they – I don't know.
09:49Scott, is there any evidence that he wants Ukraine to win?
09:54Absolutely none.
09:55The minerals deals that the Russians are offering Trump are in Ukraine, but they're in Russian-occupied parts of Ukraine.
10:04So that's the incentive that they have there.
10:06Look, we've got to be honest, William.
10:08When you call it out – and I appreciate the difficult spot Barry's in – but you have the combination
10:13of an allegedly corrupt administration.
10:15Donald Trump made $3.4 billion last year, much of it off cryptocurrency.
10:20We have a series of deals that have been made not just simply with the Russians but with other countries,
10:24which personally benefit Trump and the Trump family.
10:27And what has happened now is that Ukraine is expendable because of that.
10:31Because what the Kremlin has said to Trump is, look, look, we want a ceasefire, but we want more Ukrainian
10:37territory for the ceasefire.
10:38We want the rest of Ukraine to be weak, and you'll profit from this.
10:42And I'm afraid that Donald Trump has not only betrayed the alliance.
10:46We need to call it out for what it is.
10:48Forty years after Ronald Reagan, his Republican successor, is actually arm-in-arm with Vladimir Putin rather than challenging the
10:54Soviet Union and then Russia.
10:56Do you think the United States is looking more and more like Belarus these days?
11:01No.
11:01I mean Belarus is simply a client state.
11:04It's a puppet state, yeah.
11:05Yeah, it has some autonomy.
11:07You know, the tragedy of this, William, is that I don't think Trump is actually fully compromised by Putin.
11:14You know, the idea of the evidence the Russians have on it.
11:16A compromise, yeah.
11:16A compromise.
11:17I think he's doing this out of his own free will because he sees it simply as personal gain.
11:24And because, let's be honest here, Vladimir Putin has flattered him, and he likes Vladimir Putin more than he likes
11:31the man, President Zelensky, who is trying to save this country from being overrun.
11:36Barry, given all of that and what you've said already, we've only got 20 seconds left.
11:40Are you hoping that Donald Trump's endorsees do well in the midterms?
11:47Sure.
11:48Sure.
11:48Sure.
