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00:00All right, let's go to the Wisehart-Wright-We-Make-It-Right-Call-Kyle-Wright hotline.
00:03We bring in the fourth amigo.
00:05I would say he's the fourth amigo of this show.
00:08And we love having him on the show.
00:10And, of course, it's not news until Tom Withers says so.
00:13Associated Press Emeritus.
00:15And we did see him in the crowd, or at least heard him in the crowd this week at Browns
00:19and over at the ballpark as well.
00:21Hi, Tom.
00:22He's working too hard.
00:23You are.
00:24Hi, Tom.
00:24Tom's actually enjoying the games.
00:27I feel great.
00:28I got a good 40 minutes of sleep last night.
00:30Congratulations.
00:31Good to have you with us.
00:32Yeah.
00:33Like everybody else in Northeast Ohio, right?
00:35Yeah.
00:36God, don't you love October?
00:37That's awesome.
00:38That's so much fun.
00:39All right, Tom, I got to ask you this, though.
00:40Hang on.
00:41So, I mean, you've spent years in the press box covering the Guardians or Indians or whatever
00:46baseball team is here.
00:48I have the scars to show it.
00:49Yes.
00:50It was a pleasure to see you and your wife the other night actually sitting in regular seats.
00:55What is that perspective like for you?
00:57It is so different.
00:58I can't tell you.
00:59I mean, it's just unbelievable.
01:00So, yeah, I did not.
01:02I was credentialed but did not work for the first two games in the series here.
01:07And, yeah, watch the games from seats with all the other Cleveland fans sitting there nervously
01:13and jittery and what have you.
01:16And, yeah, it's been different.
01:18You know, it's just a reminder of what a great game this is, right?
01:23You know, the margin for errors, the little inches that can, you know, a play that could
01:29be a moment to remember turns into like, oh, God, did that happen again kind of moment.
01:34So, yeah, it's been good for me.
01:37I think it's been a nice chance for me to remember what it was like to be a fan or
01:41a spectator.
01:43And, you know, and I'll be honest with you guys, I'm not surprised by what we've seen
01:48over the last couple of days as to who this team is.
01:50Did you ask, Laurie, if she wanted to get on a hot call?
01:53Just get everybody sitting in your row in on that?
01:55No, I don't want to startle anybody.
01:57Andy, you know better than that.
01:59I figured I could just envision you sitting there in the stands, like, turning around to
02:03go talk to somebody behind you just because you've been doing it for so long.
02:07Yeah, it was interesting, though, in the section we were in, like, DeJuan Jones was sitting
02:10down below us and Neil Huntington, formerly with the Guardians of the Indians.
02:15And, yeah, we're in a few other people here and there.
02:17So, yeah, it's been refreshing for me, Andy.
02:19It's been, you know, it's been 31, or let me see, since 1995 was the last time I had
02:24seen a game, a playoff game as a spectator.
02:27So, yeah, it was really cool.
02:29Tom, and it's not just the Guardians.
02:32It's really not just the White Sox.
02:34But you see in postseason baseball managers, and I get it, you've got to win.
02:40But you see them making moves that they would never make in the regular season, especially
02:45when it comes to pitching.
02:46And then you end up, sometimes, at the end of a series, having a completely pitching staff
02:52that's just gassed.
02:54Do these guys overmanage some of this stuff because of that?
02:58I think they do.
02:59Yeah, I do.
03:00Jeff, I think you're right.
03:01I think, you know, the pitching chaos has become kind of the trending word, right, in
03:05the postseason last few years.
03:06We saw the Tigers do it in 2024.
03:09He's watching the White Sox try to do it now.
03:11It's basically Tampa's mantra every time they take the field, for the most part.
03:14You know, gone are the days where you lean on that starting pitcher to get you through
03:19six.
03:19You know, you hope you can get three out of your starter anymore.
03:22And yeah, I think you're right, Jeff.
03:23I do think there is some overmanaging.
03:25I think there's a quick trigger at times to get guys out.
03:28I thought, though, last night, Vogt made the right move.
03:30Messick clearly did not have his stuff.
03:32Agreed.
03:32And I thought he got him at the right time.
03:34I'll tell you what, though.
03:35And then, you know, I know we can talk about the Kate Smith decision and whether or not to
03:39bring Gavin Williams in the ninth inning or not.
03:41But if you go back to game two, right, what was the biggest criticism about Vogt for that
03:45game, right, was not leaving Gavin Williams in there.
03:48And I thought that was a real lesson and kind of a moment as a young manager for Vogt to
03:53realize that, you know what, sometimes you've got to ride the big guys.
03:56And so I think maybe, you know, part of that thinking went into what he decided to do last
04:01night.
04:02Listen, both bullpens are gassed.
04:04You can see that.
04:05So, you know, I mean, we saw 15 pitchers last night, Jeff and Andy, and I don't know what
04:08we're going to see tomorrow, it could be a, we might see a 10 to nine game, or we could
04:12see a two to one game where, you know, both pitching staffs are on again.
04:16You just don't know.
04:17And I think sometimes we also forget the human component of all this, which is that, you
04:23know, adrenaline and pressure are real in October.
04:27I think the most refreshing thing, I think the thing that the Guardians fans need to cling
04:31on here is that Jose Ramirez is in a good spot mentally and physically.
04:36And I wondered how that week off would help him and his hand.
04:40Now, he didn't hit the ball particularly well in games one and two, but you could see what
04:43that first at bat on when it was, say, Friday, yeah, Wednesday, game three, when he lines
04:48out to left field, you could just tell he's on the ball and he's locked in.
04:52And my God, you know, when, when Jose is going like that, this Guardians team is an entirely
04:57different ball club.
04:59Tom, I'm going to go backwards here on Kate Smith and Gavin Williams in just a second.
05:02Who would you start tomorrow?
05:05Yeah.
05:05Gavin Williams.
05:06Yeah.
05:07I don't think there's any reason to not put him out there.
05:09Listen, he would have thrown a side session anyway, yesterday.
05:13He just happened to do it in the ninth inning to, you know, essentially close the game.
05:17He wasn't credited with a save, but you know, he had to put them away.
05:21So I think that that would be the route that I would go.
05:24He's got a couple of other options.
05:25Obviously, you know, Espino started game three and he was available last night.
05:30I know there's been a lot of second guessing about whether or not you bring, you know,
05:34you use him instead of Kate Smith in a kind of a low leverage situation with a five run
05:39lead in the eighth inning yesterday.
05:41But I think you've got to go with Williams tomorrow.
05:44You know, obviously, I think you've got a couple other guys that are going to be available.
05:48Tanner Bybee didn't look good out there last night, was really struggling from his first pitch on.
05:54You guys could see that, right?
05:55He pulled the first one really bad and, you know, hasn't been used a lot.
05:59You know, Joey Cantillo did not pitch a ton of pitches the other night.
06:04Is that what it was?
06:05Yeah.
06:06So, you know, there's another option as well, but I think you've got to go with the big rig.
06:09I think you send him out there tomorrow night.
06:11He's a horse.
06:12He's been talking about how, you know, he's willing to do whatever it takes.
06:16I think you give him the ball in game five, hope that he can get you to the fifth,
06:20shorten the game, and then take it from there.
06:22I can't disagree with any of that.
06:24You also have, I mean, Foster Griffin could give you a little bit of, you know, he threw 52 pitches.
06:32I think he has plenty of options for tomorrow night, so I don't think that's an issue.
06:38And, Tom, the beauty of it is you can second-guess like crazy.
06:41There's a game five, you know?
06:43Exactly.
06:44That's so right.
06:45I mean, we all think that we can be, you know, we are all the armchair managers or what have
06:50you in October.
06:51And, you know, those are tough decisions to make.
06:54And I think a lot of times, too, Jeff and Andy, what we also forget is that there's a lot
06:58we don't know
06:59about what's going on with guys, right?
07:01We don't know about guys in their arms and, you know, medically, who's really there.
07:06You know, from a mental standpoint, you know, who's not there?
07:09Who can he trust?
07:10I mean, it feels like, you know, Vogt maybe doesn't necessarily have that trust in Festa
07:14to put him out there in a high-leverage situation.
07:17I know there was a lot of...
07:17Felt that way last night, didn't it?
07:19Yeah, it certainly did.
07:20I know there's a lot of second-guessing about whether Angel Martinez should be in the lineup or not.
07:24I mean, the kid is clearly struggling at the plate and can't quite get...
07:28can't quite figure out what he should swing at and what he shouldn't.
07:31You know, that said, he gets hit by the pitch, right?
07:34Which sometimes, you know, it's almost like the Bad News Bears step in front of one, right?
07:38And he takes it off his knee, gets himself down to first base zone.
07:41And then, if you guys remember, still the huge bag there.
07:44That was a huge steal then followed by, you know, a base hit or two tied the ball game up.
07:49So, I think what really struck me, guys, though, after games one and two is, like we talked about,
07:54you know, the Guardians had their chances in game one, right?
07:57Twice with the bases loaded in back-to-back innings.
07:59Don't push anything across.
08:00Game two, obviously, the Adele ball that is the longest ball hit in the stadium all year
08:05that doesn't leave the park, right?
08:06Game of inches.
08:07Look at that inning last night, the six-run inning.
08:09You know, Meadroth can't handle Ramirez's hard smash, right?
08:13Then the next ball, by De Lauder, clears his glove by a matter of inches.
08:16So, these two teams have played these kind of games all year,
08:20and that's why this series really hasn't surprised me at all.
08:23All right, so let's go back then to the decisions on Cade Smith and Gavin Williams.
08:28To me, I think it wasn't so much about last night.
08:31It was about two nights ago when he decided to go two innings with Cade Smith,
08:35and that just kind of pushed things into yesterday's game.
08:38I wasn't surprised that he took Cade Smith out yesterday,
08:41especially after putting him back in the eighth inning.
08:43I guess the armchair manager in all of us is like,
08:46if you would have just played it straight, what would have happened?
08:49What would have happened?
08:50Would there be a game five tomorrow, Andy?
08:52I don't know.
08:52That's a great lead.
08:52I don't know.
08:53It all worked out.
08:55So, I mean, you can second-guess him as much as you want.
08:57The bottom line is that there's a game five tomorrow.
09:00So, you know, I get it.
09:01You know, Cade looked, you know, like Cade on Wednesday night, right?
09:05I mean, he goes out there and throws 21 pitches or whatever,
09:08and he's been – my God, I don't think he has gotten nearly the national attention
09:12that he deserves for the kind of season that he's had for this team.
09:17I think it's always tricky when you're asking your closer to go two innings.
09:21But it is something that we've seen in October before.
09:24I mean, you know, there were times where, you know,
09:27Joe Torre would give the ball to Mario Ano Rivera to get that last out in the
09:30eighth inning and then have to close a team out in the ninth.
09:33So, I get it, Andy.
09:35It's easy to look back and say, you know, now he – you know, I will say this.
09:40The good thing about Cade Smith is that, you know, he's a horse.
09:43He's a physical specimen.
09:44He's going to have a day off now.
09:46He's going to be able to get his head together a little bit.
09:48Again, like I said before, I think we sometimes overlook the idea that, you know,
09:52that was a pressure situation for him last night.
09:54Maybe he was still in a little bit.
09:56That's why he didn't have necessarily the same spin that we usually see on his pitches.
10:01He certainly did have the velocity that he usually does.
10:05And so, I just think he's a great weapon.
10:07And you can second guess all you want.
10:09The bottom line is that, you know, they're playing tomorrow night at 8 o'clock.
10:14Tom, the offense coming around when it came around.
10:17Yeah.
10:18And, you know, the top of the order had been not good in games one and two.
10:22I love what you had to say about Jose.
10:25I think he's had some company here.
10:27Steven Kwan has been effective enough.
10:29No question.
10:30Joe Adele, after striking out six times and seven at-bats, shows what this team had been
10:36lacking, which is that thumper in the middle of the lineup.
10:38How valuable do you think he has been, Nathaniel Lowe has been, maybe not even just as how
10:44they played in this series, but what they've meant to this lineup?
10:48A hundred percent, right?
10:49You force teams to pitch to the lineup differently.
10:52And again, having a healthy or as healthy as he can be at this point, a healthy Jose Ramirez
10:58makes all the difference in the world.
10:59But this is why they got those guys, Jeff.
11:02I mean, yeah, you got Joe Adele maybe to hit some home runs and not necessarily triples,
11:06but he's had the biggest moment of the series for this team, right?
11:09The game three triple was just an absolute quality at bat.
11:12And I think that's what they were lacking in games one and two, Jeff, is that you didn't
11:17see that typical Guardians patience at the plate, right?
11:20They were first pitch swinging.
11:22I mean, Grant Taylor came in and when Burke came in and they were, they seemed to feel
11:26like they needed to jump on early pitches and counts.
11:29Now they're being patient.
11:30I mean, look at the at-bats that Travis Pizana has given them, you know, just to extend guys,
11:35to make pictures, make those, those perfect pitches.
11:38And then I think they, you know, they drew what, 10 walks, I think in game three and then
11:42seven more last night.
11:44So they've been able to put some traffic on the bases and then you got to hope that a ball
11:48or two is going to drop in and that's what's happened.
11:50I mean, Pizana's ball last night probably gets caught, except the right fielder takes
11:55a bad angle on that one, right?
11:57The Ramirez triple the other night, once again, probably a bad angle by Antonacci on that drops
12:02in.
12:02So the margins are just so small, but I think the bottom line for the Guardians, Jeff, is
12:08that they've gotten back to the approach that they know and playing the kind of ball that
12:13they're comfortable in playing.
12:14And if you can work in, you know, a big bomb every once in a while, you can.
12:18And I thought the Patrick Bailey home run last night was as big a moment as there was in
12:22the game, you guys, because at two to nothing, things weren't feeling necessarily very good.
12:28He steps up there and absolutely rips one.
12:30And it kind of, it kind of broke the damn open in some ways, right?
12:33It's just kind of a loud.
12:34And then obviously, you know, Hosey goes up there and squares up a 99 mile per hour fastball,
12:40which, you know, he seemed to see coming from about three days ago.
12:43So, yeah, I mean, he just seemed to be so locked in on that.
12:48And I'll go back to him for a second.
12:49I thought it was real, really a moment in game three when he got on base and he was on
12:55second.
12:56And I think, you know, we've all watched him long enough to know you can see it in his
13:00eyes when he's about to swipe third.
13:01And he kind of looked over to Sandy Alomar at first base and kind of gave him a shrug,
13:05like, you know, why aren't you sending me?
13:07And so I was like, he's going.
13:09And sure enough, next pitch, he steals third.
13:11And then obviously scores that on the contact play.
13:14Again, October is about big moments.
13:17The Guardians just didn't have any in games one and two.
13:19And now they've kind of figured out their formula.
13:21And here we are.
13:24All right.
13:24Speaking of big moments, I'm not sure if you caught this.
13:26The Browns are three and one.
13:28And they will play on Sunday in New Jersey against the New York Giants.
13:33Your thoughts.
13:34And I know you were out of Browns this week.
13:35Yeah.
13:36What's the big takeaways from this week?
13:39Yeah, no, it's interesting.
13:41It's going to seem, now it's, let's see how this team handles some success, right?
13:44Let's just see if they're able to, you know, I think people talk about this as almost like
13:48the old college, you know, trap game where, you know, you're, while you're the underdog,
13:52you're supposed to go in and beat that two.
13:54I think they're probably a better team than everybody realizes.
13:58So, listen, I think, you know, Watson has opened a lot of people's eyes here.
14:02I think I'm in the minority, guys.
14:04And it's probably because I was only out at camp like three or four days during the
14:08summer.
14:09But it seems like the three or four days that I was there, he looked pretty good to me.
14:13And I was like, I kind of walked away going, maybe there is a little bit more there.
14:17I'll give you, for instance, the week of the Buffalo practice before the exhibition game,
14:21I thought Watson played really well.
14:23And, you know, some of my media colleagues were like, well, you're not here all the time,
14:27Tom.
14:27You haven't seen the interceptions every other day.
14:29So I was like, I don't know, I was cautiously optimistic about what he might be able to
14:33provide.
14:33And obviously he's been great, you know, except for the fourth, the second half against the
14:38Pittsburgh game, he's been, he's been terrific.
14:40And even he made enough plays in that game, particularly with his legs to get them a win.
14:44So, listen, I know, I know Jeff has been, you know, banging the table for wide receivers
14:49for the last couple of years.
14:50And I think they really have landed on, I tell you what, and I, and I wrote about him on
14:58Wednesday, I have been so impressed with Denzel Boston from the time that he walked in.
15:02And I know I'm not the only one who feels that way.
15:04He just, he just oozes.
15:06He's just got a charisma about him.
15:08Nevermind the fact that he's big and he's fast and he's strong and he runs good routes
15:12and does all the other things.
15:14You know, Munkin talks about how he's just, how, how wired he is differently than your average
15:19rookie.
15:20And so that's been encouraging.
15:21You know, I think as we've talked about before, guys, just getting this young group that had
15:26such success last year as a rookie class to build off that.
15:29And I think, you know, with the first year guys now, whether it's Fenn hours or, or others,
15:34they're, they're getting what they need out of this young group.
15:36And you just got to hope that they can continue.
15:40Tom, it's conceivable.
15:42This team could go four and one.
15:44You don't have Lamar Jackson, perhaps for Baltimore.
15:47I mean, that's, I'm, I'm cautiously optimistic, but it's a strange start to this season.
15:53You know, I, I don't think anybody expected this.
15:56Yeah, it's not, you're right.
15:57It's not even with the Browns too.
15:59I mean, you got a lot of teams that you just can't figure out.
16:01And, and yeah, you know, you know, sadly the, the, the quarterback injury thing becomes
16:07a thing.
16:07And, you know, you want, I think we all, you know, I know it, it, it's advantageous
16:11obviously to have Lamar Jackson off the field.
16:13If you're a Browns fan, I love watching the guy too.
16:15I just think he's that kind of a special player.
16:17So yeah, you're right.
16:18I mean, you know, the division seems, you know, really wide open.
16:22We have said this before I think, what has it been five or six years since the team has
16:27been four and one.
16:28So that would be great.
16:30But I think the other thing too, guys, is that they really seem to have bought into Todd
16:34Munkin and kind of the, the culture shift that, that he's made there.
16:39You know, this is no knock on Kevin Stefanski, who I think is a, is a terrific coach.
16:44And I think you're going to see him have success in Atlanta with a, with a vastly underrated
16:49team, but I think, you know, his voice had probably gotten stale there the last year
16:53or two.
16:53And I think you're seeing this young group respond to Munkin.
16:57You know, I liked the, the interactions he, you know, he's had with players and fans and
17:01media for that matter.
17:03And so it's been refreshing from that standpoint.
17:06Tom, as always, you know, we love having you on the show and we look forward to talking
17:09to you throughout the playoffs and Brown season and all this good stuff.
17:12So thank you, Tom.
17:13Thanks Thomas.
17:13Always a pleasure.
17:14Have a good day guys.
17:15We'll talk to you soon.
17:15Have a good day.