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00:00Have you talked to David Coverdale recently?
00:02I mean, David, formerly retired.
00:04We all kind of saw it coming.
00:05What a career with not only what he did with White Sink,
00:08but with Deep Purple and with Coverdale Page,
00:10working with Jimmy Page.
00:11He can do whatever he wants.
00:13He deserves it.
00:14Rock, metal, frog, and everything in between.
00:18Welcome to this episode of Talkin' Rock with Meltdown.
00:22Don't forget to follow the audio-only Talkin' Rock podcast
00:24on all podcast platforms.
00:26And now, it's time for today's conversation.
00:30Here's Meltdown.
00:31Hey, Joel, good to see you.
00:32Hey, great to see you as well.
00:34Thanks for having me.
00:35You know, you guys are coming through town on December 23rd
00:37playing the LCA Little Caesars Arena,
00:39which, of course, is the home of the Detroit Pistons,
00:41which I know you're a basketball fan.
00:43But do you know anything about hockey?
00:45Because we need a general manager for the Red Wings,
00:47and we don't have one yet.
00:49You know, man, I grew up in Chicago,
00:52so I grew up in the worst hockey town for an owner
00:56because that guy, Bill Wirtz, wouldn't even put them on TV.
00:59So none of us really became Blackhawks fans
01:02because they weren't accessible to us.
01:03I mean, history was if it was on TV,
01:06why would they come to the game?
01:07So, I mean, talk about a different era, man.
01:10So you want to talk about bad GMs.
01:13And I still, you know, look, when you grow up in Chicago,
01:16it's like Detroit, man.
01:17You got to stick with your team, right?
01:19So, like, yeah, I've been in New York now 25 years,
01:21but I don't root for the New York teams, man.
01:23I still root for the Chicago teams.
01:25So we know everything about bad GMs in Chicago, dude.
01:29Well, there's some here right now.
01:31But, yeah, December 4th in Toledo, then the Huntington Center.
01:35That's for two big shows.
01:37You got December 23rd here at the LCA, two big shows,
01:39the 30th anniversary.
01:40Ghost of Christmas Eve, the best of TSO.
01:43They say this one's going to be the biggest and the best.
01:45So what makes this the biggest and the best so far?
01:48Because it's always been big and great.
01:51Well, you know, the funniest answer to that,
01:53as far as the production goes, is I don't know.
01:55Because, I mean, the musicians,
01:57we don't really know until we're there at rehearsals.
02:00But I know our production team, they work on that.
02:03That's a 365-day-a-year gig, dude.
02:06I mean, the last notes are still hanging in the air
02:09from the last tour, and they're talking about,
02:11all right, what are we doing next year?
02:13And talking about what they're going to put together.
02:15So we usually find that out, you know, when we all congregate.
02:18And musically, we're at the phase right now
02:20where they'll give us a song list,
02:22and we start working on the songs.
02:23We go, okay, individually, at home.
02:26Getting it together, no, it's like,
02:29I'd say a little friendly competition
02:30on who has their act together the most
02:32at the first rehearsal and knows it the best.
02:36So, you know, that's where we're at with that.
02:38Now, as far as what makes it the biggest and the best,
02:41there's going to be some new musical arrangements.
02:42There's going to be some songs that, you know,
02:45are deeper cuts that, if you're there every year,
02:47that you're excited about to hear.
02:49You know, the show is constantly evolving.
02:52You know, it's a show that's, you know,
02:55steeped in tradition, and that it's a holiday tradition
02:58for so many, and ingrained in North American holiday culture
03:01and whatnot, but it is evolving all the time, man.
03:04And, you know, that Paul O'Neill philosophy,
03:07Paul O'Neill was the founder of TSO,
03:09for those that don't know, about bigger and better.
03:12I mean, bigger is better.
03:13There was no less is more kind of thing with TSO, man.
03:17So, you know, we want you to leave going like,
03:19that's the best show I've ever been to, period.
03:21That was what Paul was all about.
03:23Bigger, more bombastic, brighter, more fireworks.
03:26Yeah, I know that the bigger and the better it could be.
03:28So people don't know, or people may or may not know,
03:31and we've talked about this in the past,
03:32but for those that don't know,
03:33you guys congregate in an arena in the middle of the country,
03:36and is that kind of when you first see the production?
03:39Yeah, that's when we first see the production.
03:42Now, like I said, as far as the music goes,
03:44we're clued in a bit earlier.
03:46But, yeah, we usually are assigned more music
03:50to have together than we're actually going to be in the show
03:54because they like to debate, take a look at things,
03:56well, on stage with the full production
03:58and debate about which one is, you know,
04:01put together better as a whole,
04:03not just how it sounds musically,
04:05but how it looks with the production
04:06and what's stronger for the show, the flow of it.
04:09That's the kind of stuff that comes together
04:11when we rehearse.
04:12And they're very much production rehearsals, man.
04:15Like, you know, the musical end of things,
04:16you better have it together when you get in there.
04:19Yeah, by the time you get there.
04:20Now, most of these shows, I'd say 90% or so,
04:23you guys play two shows a day.
04:26How grueling is that?
04:29You know, I'm pretty used to it, man.
04:31I've been doing this since 2010.
04:32I feel like if nothing else has trained me
04:35so that when I do a normal tour,
04:36it feels like I'm on vacation, you know?
04:38Like, when I would tour with Whitesnake
04:40and we'd play three, four shows a week
04:42or something like that, I was like, that's it?
04:44Like, we're not doing a second show tonight?
04:47Like, later or anything?
04:49So, it just kind of makes everything feel
04:51a little bit easier.
04:52So, yeah, definitely used to it.
04:55And, you know, easiest answer is common sense.
04:58It's labor of love, man.
04:59If you love what you do, you know, people say
05:02it doesn't really feel like work.
05:03And I'm sure, you know, I'm sure you're one of those people,
05:06man, that has lived their dream.
05:08I'm sure, like, what you're doing right now for your job
05:10is what you wanted to do when you were younger.
05:12You hope it works out.
05:13And when it does, like, for someone like myself
05:16who just sat there as a kid with a guitar
05:18and going, you know, it's amazing, man,
05:22when it does work out for you.
05:23I'm sure you're grateful for your gig
05:24and there's times and challenges where it feels like work.
05:27But in general, you probably have that oversight
05:30to be like, you know what?
05:32I'm really grateful to have the opportunity
05:33to be doing what I'm doing.
05:34And that's where I'm at.
05:36And I think all of us I could speak to.
05:39I mean, there's times where we still sit and marvel
05:40and be like, man, I can't believe that arena
05:42was sold out twice today.
05:43It's, like, crazy that we're going to get to do this.
05:46Yeah, I know.
05:47I talked to it.
05:47I was texting one of my friends the other day
05:49who plays in a pretty big band.
05:51He's been doing it for decades.
05:52And, hey, how'd the show go?
05:53Yeah, it was a show.
05:55And I thought to myself, I'm like, man,
05:57you should be happy that you get to do this
05:59after all these years, because there's a lot of people,
06:01like you said, that don't get to do
06:02what they like to do every day.
06:04Yeah, I think that TSO, it can push the boundaries
06:09in terms of it pushes you to the limits
06:13with physically and mentally in terms of work
06:18in the rock world.
06:19Like, you know, I've often referred to it
06:21as the Marines of rock, right?
06:23It's like you, but it's like,
06:24there's like a badge of honor with it, too.
06:26And it's not just a badge of honor
06:28at the end of the tour.
06:29It's like every day, you know, you're like,
06:31made it through the day, man.
06:32You know, I didn't hit one wrong note today.
06:35Nothing bad.
06:35Like, everything was, you know, on point, did it all.
06:39And, you know, because it's not just the two shows.
06:41It's a sound check.
06:42It's the signing line after we're done
06:46with the evening show.
06:47And that's something different.
06:48And I don't think we mentioned that yet in the interview.
06:51But, you know, it's basically a free meet and greet.
06:54I mean, who does that?
06:55Yeah.
06:56Every evening show, you get the whole band
06:58and we sign anything you want.
07:00You can come through the autograph line or whatever.
07:03And, you know, that's really allowed us,
07:05despite the success, you know,
07:07this commercial success that TSO has,
07:09it'd still be kind of grassroots in a way, man.
07:11I mean, we're on a first-name basis
07:13with a whole lot of the fan base.
07:14And, you know, that's that kind of working-class attitude
07:17that, you know, I know certainly people in Detroit,
07:21you know, and Chicago,
07:22even though we have that rivalry, man,
07:24us Midwestern guys, man, we appreciate that,
07:26like that work ethic and that keeping it real kind of thing.
07:29You know, we're not these coastal blitzy people, you know?
07:34It's like, you know, to roll up the sleeves
07:35and get it done, man, you know?
07:37That is true.
07:37Yeah, yeah.
07:38There's a thing called grit for sure.
07:40So the show is, like I said,
07:41December 23rd at the LCA and December 4th,
07:43if you're in Toledo at the Huntington Center.
07:45Hey, you just brought up Whitesnake.
07:46You know, David Carverdale just all of a sudden
07:48just kind of disappeared.
07:49Have you talked to David Carverdale recently?
07:51I mean, David formerly retired.
07:54I mean, which we all kind of saw coming.
07:56And, you know, he had put an end to the farewell tour,
08:00kind of in the middle of it, more or less.
08:02And that's something I think we all more or less saw coming,
08:06but just were waiting on David to, you know,
08:09take his time and think things through
08:10and see what he really wanted to do.
08:12And he made a formal announcement regarding his retirement.
08:17And, you know, he's got my full support.
08:19I mean, great time in the band.
08:22I love David, but he certainly earned it, man.
08:24What a career with not only what he did with Whitesnake,
08:26but with Deep Purple and with Carverdale Page,
08:29working with Jimmy Page.
08:30You know, I mean, great career.
08:32You know, he's a legend, man.
08:34So, like, he can do, as far as I'm concerned,
08:35he's deserved to, you know, he can do whatever he wants.
08:39He deserves it.
08:40Yeah, no doubt about that.
08:41You know, you're 100% accurate.
08:43But it's kind of funny because he retired from touring and whatnot.
08:46And then it really shocked, well, shocked me anyways.
08:48He's like, well, I'm done with social media.
08:51Because he was at social media all the time.
08:53And it's like, all of a sudden, it's like, wait, wait.
08:55Now you're really gone.
08:57Well, I think that, I think he really looked at that as part of what weighed on him
09:03on a daily basis in terms of, you know, just what it is to be a musician
09:08and interact with the fans.
09:09And I think he just wanted to really, you know, downshift.
09:13And he earned the right to do it.
09:15So, I mean, I think he's been stepping back in a little bit on social media
09:19and maybe backed off of that a touch just recently.
09:22I don't know.
09:23But, you know, I know he's active on our band thread still.
09:27We have a band text thread.
09:29So, I still get texts from David about every day.
09:32Just so happens to be the band lineup.
09:35So, you know, I mean, he's a great guy, man.
09:37And I tell you what, great boss to have, great bandmate, great, you know, great dude.
09:44So, no, I don't really have anything bad to say about the experience and time
09:47and what I say, and I think people will go, no, come on, really?
09:50And I'm like, no, for real.
09:51Like, I got nothing, man, nothing bad to say.
09:54Like, people, I waved for some, you know, oh, it was just so difficult with it.
10:00No, it was great.
10:01I had a great time.
10:03It was a great experience.
10:04No, I've interviewed you several times.
10:06You seem like a really good dude.
10:07David Coverdell, I interviewed a bunch, too.
10:09And I didn't work for him or know him in the capacity that you do.
10:12Shakes is my buddy.
10:13I don't know if you remember Shakes.
10:15But he had nothing but nice things to say about him.
10:18I can't, yeah, I don't think anyone would say a bad word about David Coverdell.
10:21I never met anyone that has, by the way.
10:23Yeah, well, there's a lot of turnover in the band, but a lot of that took place in the 80s.
10:27By the time, when you join a band 30 years after that, people forget that people have evolved over the
10:32course of 30 years.
10:33And what's happening with the band has evolved greatly since then.
10:37So, you know, my tenure in the band in my time, you know, was a much different experience, I'm sure,
10:42than the people were experiencing in the 80s.
10:45Yeah, well, I hope that the band thread doesn't include all the former members, because that would be a long
10:51list of guys.
10:53You know, he's really, you know, been good about, like, you know, or was good about that in the time
11:00that I was in the band, as far as people that would come up and play with us.
11:04You know, Vivian Campbell got up and jammed with us, and, you know, we played with Def Leppard, and Adrian
11:09Vandenberg would get up with us several times.
11:12Bernie Marsden, rest in peace, you know, got up and jammed with us several times in my time in the
11:19band.
11:20So, you know, the past members, there was a good relationship there with all of them, I think, except for,
11:27you know, John Sykes.
11:28And they just couldn't see eye to eye for whatever reason.
11:31I don't know the specifics of that.
11:33I don't really want to know.
11:34Right.
11:35Well, you just brought up Adrian Vandenberg, and I talked to my friend Bumblefoot earlier today.
11:39I know you were with him last night at this fundraiser to fight teen cancer, and I saw your pictures
11:44on social media.
11:45It was really cool.
11:46And as usual, I'll text my buds, and I'll say, hey, give me a question for Joel Holkstra.
11:50So his question from Bumblefoot is, would you rather play Believe or Here I Go Again?
11:56Which one would you rather play?
11:58I'd rather play Here I Go Again, man.
12:00I mean, you know, like, Believe is that that was a fun thing to be a part of the Cher
12:06gig and the camp for the, you know, I really did the touring and residencies for a few years of
12:14that, and then got to do a couple more high-profile things, like play with her at her Rock and
12:18Roll Hall of Fame induction and the SNL 50 homecoming concert that was obviously nationally televised as well.
12:25So, you know, it was all a blessing, but, you know, I didn't grab a guitar and start playing rock
12:30songs to necessarily envision myself playing it, you know, dance songs and things of that nature.
12:36But that being said, I had a great time, man.
12:39You know what I mean?
12:39Like, when you get older and you mature in the business, you recognize, like, all right, this isn't what I
12:45pictured, but it's an awesome life experience, you know, and you'd be dumb not to do it.
12:50So, you know, nothing but good things to say there as well.
12:53Well, you may be surprised to know, since I'm a rocker through and through, but I did see you on
12:57stage one time with Sharon.
12:58It was actually really good, and you look like you're having a blast up there.
13:02So, as always.
13:04Yeah, man.
13:04I mean, look, you're lucky to have the opportunities, dude.
13:09I mean, what am I supposed to say?
13:11You know, it's like people online in the comment sections will occasionally have things to say, like, you know, snide
13:19remarks about playing gigs like that.
13:21It's like, man, we're just on different pages, man.
13:24I just wanted to be, myself, my only goal was to be a pro guitar player.
13:28So, when things work out, I've always had a pretty open mind in terms of what I'm willing to do.
13:33Like, you want me to go play that?
13:35Yeah, that's not exactly what I pictured when I started, but let's go see what it's about.
13:39And I'm going to work hard to do the best I can at it.
13:42And I think because of that, my career has flourished and done well.
13:47I think, you know, just being open-minded a little bit, man, you know, and making the best of it.
13:52Maybe it's not exactly what you pictured, but you can still find some really cool experiences through that.
13:57I encourage anybody to do that with what it is they're after and living their dreams.
14:02You can't be too narrowly focused on what it is you're trying to do.
14:07You know, I think you need to branch out and interact.
14:10And it's funny, you know, there's an old saying that work creates work.
14:15Or another one that I said, the harder you work, the luckier you get.
14:19The luckier you become, yeah.
14:19So, and for me, I've always been a little more interested in being a real-world guitar player.
14:24Like somebody who is doing gigs or recording.
14:28You know, it's not to say anything derogatory about, you know, the current generation of content creation.
14:36Because there's a lot of very talented people doing it.
14:38And it is a tougher business these days to, you know, make a living in the real world with it.
14:45So, I get it.
14:46But that, for me, is not as artistically rewarding as doing the things we're talking about.
14:50I love recording.
14:51I love making records and recording on other people's records, even if it's not my material.
14:57Like, I love that.
14:57I love trying to come up with the guitar part that'll make their song click.
15:01Like, you know, that kind of stuff, I dig.
15:03And I love playing live in any capacity.
15:07You know, the shared thing, most of that gig, you saw it.
15:10We were in the background of a bandstand.
15:13But, you know, what I talk about that is I think I had for, at that point now, I got
15:20Night Ranger and Rock of Ages and TSO and Whitesnake.
15:24So, I was getting a lot of, like, you know, hard rock.
15:27And with the shared thing, you know, I had gone through a lot musically to get where I ended up.
15:34And so, I learned a lot of different styles.
15:36I played a lot of different things.
15:37And when you play a catalog like that that has five generations, five decades of hits, like, one minute you're
15:45playing a disco song, you know.
15:47I mean, you know what?
15:49Like, I know that people might think that's weird.
15:51But, like, I had a lot of fun doing that just because I hadn't been able to do it in
15:55so long, you know.
15:56It's like, yeah, I know how to do this, man.
15:57You know, I know how to do the wak-a-chuk-a-wak-a-chuk with the wad and funk
16:02out.
16:02And that's not something you get a chance to do on a lot of the harder rock gigs, you know.
16:06But that being said, man, you know, blessed to have all of it.
16:10And by the way, that's not a slight.
16:11What I'm saying is, you look like you are having a blast no matter what stage I've seen you play
16:15on.
16:15That's what I'm trying to get at, for sure.
16:17yeah no it looks like i think uh you know i consider myself grateful it took a long time dude
16:23you know for things to open up and like you know i always made my living with guitar all the
16:28way
16:28from like you know getting out of studying guitar and getting out of school but it took a while it
16:33took a while to get to that point where it's like you know people know who you are they want
16:37your
16:37autograph or they want your picture all that kind of stuff which again wasn't necessarily my focus
16:41my focus was like man i just want to make a living with this thing i think i came from
16:45you know i
16:45know i came from a poor family and i think i like you know the blue collar suburbs of uh
16:52chicago not
16:54chicago downtown but i it's like unrealistic to expect to like i'm gonna be famous out of here
17:00or something like that or you know if i would have said uh to anybody that i would play with
17:06the the
17:06acts that i've been able to play with they've it's would have been like laughed at you know so yeah
17:11you've had a great career man you've been able to play with a lot of great players uh but yeah
17:14tso
17:15coming to town december 23rd i know you got more interviews to do uh december 4th at huntington
17:19center by the way you got you guys usually play between the holidays here in detroit so this time
17:23it's a couple days early and then i go see my dad in buffalo and you guys are playing in
17:28buffalo
17:28between the holidays so i'm i'm bound to see you on one of those shows so yeah awesome right on
17:33man
17:34well looking forward to seeing you and you know definitely appreciate you taking the time out
17:38helping to get the word out today and uh you know uh you know fingers crossed man for the best
17:44but i
17:44can't wait to get out there and and give it a give it a go all right i'm gonna tell
17:49i'm gonna tell
17:49bumble what you said believe just for fun sorry well you just you just do you just tell him uh
17:56geniuses
17:57aren't allowed to ask questions uh through uh through third parties how about that you know
18:04ron's a genius player man i mean he's he's one of my guitar heroes you know i we all have
18:10our own
18:10guitar heroes and ron is definitely one of my guitar heroes man i mean he's he's he's an incredible talent
18:16i don't know if people recognize how talented ron is he's just one of those guys that it's like man
18:22how
18:23he's got his own thing with the fretless you know up guitar up the neck up here uh the fretted
18:29he's
18:30the own thing with the thimble he had on top of that he's a guy that like seems to know
18:34like every
18:35single song ever and he sings great it's just like one of those things where you know and if he
18:40was a
18:40jerk he'd hate his guts but he's the nicest guy in the world right so it's like okay well i
18:45can't hate
18:45this guy he's this is so nice he's such a great guy uh but you know he's yeah so in
18:51the end he's just
18:51like one of those guys that i admire and i respect and he's he's one of my guitar heroes for
18:55sure and
18:56he's and he's one of the only people i know in the thousands of numbers i have on my phone
19:00that
19:00texts you with a voice memo i just experienced that yeah leading into the gig yes all right joel
19:12thanks so much for your time i appreciate same travels we'll see you here in detroit all right
19:16brother thank you so much check out talking rock with milk on all podcast platforms and wrif.com
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