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This episode of Super 6 covers key national and international political developments. Former Tamil Nadu Chief Minister MK Stalin responds to Chief Minister Vijay regarding an assembly hand gesture while recalling his 1976 detention under the MISA Act.
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00:24Hello and welcome. Good evening. You're watching Super 6 here on India Today.
00:28I'm Akshetananda Gopal and over the next one hour we're going to be getting you all the big stories of
00:33the day
00:34with our focus also of course on the countdown to the BRICS summit kicking off in just less than 24
00:40hours from now.
00:42So we'll give you a sense of all that's happening, the buzz around BRICS but also as always focus on
00:47what's happening in the southern states.
00:50And so at 6pm this evening what are we going to be getting you, what's lined up on the show?
00:54Well first we're going to be getting you the response that's come in from former Chief Minister, DMK Chief M
01:00.K. Stalin
01:01who's responded to that gesture by Chief Minister Vijay.
01:06What is his response? What has he spoken of?
01:09He's gone into great detail about what happened during his arrest under MISA.
01:13We'll break that down for you.
01:15Also on the show this evening we'll get you a highlight of India Today's BRICS roundtable.
01:21Let's begin with the headlines.
01:27World's biggest bilaterals on the sidelines of the BRICS summit.
01:30Chinese President Xi Jinping to arrive in India on September 12th.
01:34Bilateral between with the Russian President Putin tomorrow.
01:42During India Today, BRICS roundtable.
01:45BJP Vice President Ramadev hits back at doubters.
01:48Defending Modi government, he says Prime Minister rightly calls opposition Naraz Pofa.
01:53Asks why nobody questioned the benefits of BRICS when UPA was in power.
02:02Politics peaks over drug menace in Punjab.
02:06Deceased Gulzar's family claims dead body committed forcibly.
02:10Congress demands immediate arrest of Punjab minister BJP to launch Mega Yatra from September 18th.
02:20Stalin responds to Chief Minister Vijay's broken jaw gesture.
02:24Calls Vijay, his brother, recounts horror during MISA arrest.
02:27Says brutality was severe and his jawbone was broken.
02:31Says he still carries the scars of the time.
02:38Will you shell out 3 lakh rupees for this phone?
02:42The iPhone redefines folding phone at the Apple launch iPhone Duo.
02:46Apple's first foldable phone steals the show.
02:50It starts at 3 lakh in India.
02:53Goes right up to 5 lakhs.
02:56This one is a 7.6 inch display.
02:59Again, very fluid.
03:01Almost everything from every different viewing angle is perfectly visible.
03:05No problem at all.
03:06But when you fold it, it turns into this 5.4 canvas, which is also very hand friendly.
03:18Now, over the last many days, we've seen a big showdown play out in Tamil Nadu after the
03:23Chief Minister's speech in the Assembly and a gesture.
03:26It was just about a second where he brought his hand to his jaw.
03:30Now, after there was outrage that this was a taunt at the former Chief Minister, M.K.
03:34Stalin, Chief Minister Vijay also clarified, saying that it wasn't a personal attack and
03:39he apologizes if it was construed as such.
03:42Now, you've got the DMK chief responding in a detailed statement that he put out.
03:46He chose to speak about Vijay, calling him his brother, saying, when you met me, you even
03:50apologized for all that you said about me during the election campaign.
03:54Not just that, he spoke about what happened in the 1970s when he was taken into custody.
04:00He says he faced all kinds of brutalities.
04:02The DMK has also followed that up with evidence to say, yes, he was arrested under MISA.
04:06Let's break down all of that for you and highlights of what Stalin had to say in this report.
04:23A hand gesture by Tamil Nadu Chief Minister Vijay has now triggered a political storm in the
04:29state and the man at the center of the controversy, his former Chief Minister, M.K.
04:33Stalin, has now hit back, recounting his experience in custody in 1976 when he was arrested under
04:40the MISA Act.
04:46The Rao erupted during a recent assembly proceedings.
04:50When speaking about MISA under emergency, Vijay placed his hand near his jaw, a gesture that
04:56was widely seen as a reference to the injuries Stalin suffered during his detention.
05:03On Thursday, Stalin revisited that painful chapter, narrating how he suffered the joy injury.
05:09Political decency and decorum at least to an extent.
05:13He said, you know what?
05:17He said, you know what?
05:30I have been in the house.
05:34I have been in the house.
05:36At night, police are going to be in the house.
05:41They are going to be in the house.
05:43They are going to be in the house.
05:47You are also going to be in the house.
05:50Do you see the house?
05:52That is correct.
05:54Now, I am in the house.
05:59Vijay, however, later offered a clarification,
06:02saying the gesture was involuntary and completely unintentional.
06:06But the controversy did not end there.
06:09The DMK has hit back at the Tamil Nadu chief minister.
06:12The response is the truth.
06:15He was arrested. Everybody knows about it.
06:18Their own allies have come out clearly saying
06:21that what the chief minister said is completely false
06:24and it's insulting all the people who stood for democracy and fought for it.
06:28It's an insult for all the people who fought and the people who died during emergency.
06:37And even with Vijay's alliance, the gesture has drawn criticism.
06:42VCK chief, ahead of Wednesday's alliance meeting,
06:45criticized Vijay's gesture and called it insensitive.
06:48So what began as a hand gesture in the assembly has now opened up a much bigger political battle
06:54over MISA, Stalin's past and Vijay's politics.
06:58With Anagar Keshav and Apoor Wajai Chandran, Bureau Report, India Today.
07:07So the war of words continuing there between Chief Minister Vijay and the former Chief Minister M.K. Stalin.
07:14The other controversy right now is over a news break that India Today got you
07:18about the new location for the Tamil Nadu Secretariat.
07:22It has become the latest flashpoint in the state.
07:24The Tamil Nadu government has said it's identified a 26-acre plot
07:28to construct a new building complex, including a legislative assembly and a secretariat.
07:32They say all of this will have modern facilities.
07:34The showdown, however, is about the location.
07:37It's at the foreshore estate in Patinampakam.
07:39So it's very close to the marina beach.
07:41And just a stone's throw away from Chief Minister Vijay's residence.
07:45The new complex is very, very close to the Chief Minister's residence.
07:49It's on the banks of the marina beach, so sea-facing secretariat.
07:53Now this, why is there a showdown over this?
07:56Because essentially you've got the opposition suggesting that this location
08:01will lead to issues for fishermen.
08:04The DMK has questioned first a delay in issuing a government order
08:07on the announcement to cancel the Parandur airport,
08:09saying that the secretariat-related government order was issued within five days,
08:13whereas Parandur it took forever.
08:15NDA ally PMK has opposed the location,
08:17raising concerns over traffic congestion in the area.
08:20If you know Chennai, you know Patinampakam,
08:22you know that there's a major junction there which is always bustling.
08:25Citing lack of space, the PMK therefore has said that this is a set-up
08:30that should be outside of Chennai.
08:33So a lot of reactions that are coming in TTV Dhinakaran,
08:35also questioning the government over this decision.
08:39But away from the politics, fishermen in the area,
08:43considering that this is along the marina beach,
08:45it's an area which is swarming with fishermen, fisher folk who also live there,
08:50and set out daily out into the sea for their daily livelihood.
08:55They're now opposing this particular location,
08:57claiming the land was originally meant for the welfare of the local fishing community,
09:01and now it's all gone.
09:06Chief Minister C. Joseph Vijay had recently announced that he'll be building a large secretariat,
09:12sprawling more than 20 lakh square foot,
09:14at a cost of a whopping 1,200 crore rupees in Chennai's Patinampakam.
09:19But it turns out, the road to secretariat for the chief minister is not going to be so smooth.
09:24Why? Because the fisher folk living in Patinampakam,
09:27have opposed the construction of secretariat in their land.
09:31And what they're saying is that, in the year 1958,
09:34their ancestors and the generations before them,
09:37used to live in that very land where the new secretariat is going to come up.
09:42They were moved from their locations, from their homes,
09:45under the promise of building better houses.
09:47But it's been close to 70 years now, more than 60 years now,
09:51but still, they have not been built houses by the government, is what they're saying.
09:56And therefore, they're saying that they do oppose the construction of secretariat in this land.
10:02The reason is, they want the land to be returned back to them, number one.
10:06The second reason why they're opposing is traffic concerns.
10:09What they're saying is that they're heavily, heavily dependent on the sea for their livelihood.
10:14And that would mean that they want their houses to also be built very nearby to the sea,
10:20so that there can be ease of commute and ease of living.
10:23And if there is a secretariat that's going to come up in this land,
10:27then it means that there's going to be tighter security deployment, heavy traffic inflow,
10:31thereby creating major impediment for the lives of fishermen who live in this area,
10:37in this area of Patinampakam.
10:39And remember, I'm talking about close to 1,200, 1,300 families,
10:43and that is a huge vote bank for Vijay.
10:47In fact, the reason why TVK's MLA has won from this constituency is primarily because of the fishermen living in
10:54this area.
10:55The fact that Vijay is in the good books of the fisher folk community who are living here.
10:59And they are saying that what we want, we have voted for a change,
11:03and we want things to change as well.
11:05So what we want is our land to be returned back to us.
11:09We don't want a new secretariat to be coming up in our land.
11:12We want our land to be given back to us.
11:14So do not build a secretariat in Patinampakam is what the fishermen community here are saying.
11:20So on September 15th, they have a huge meeting that's going to be scheduled,
11:25post which they'll take a final decision about what to do next.
11:28They have told me that so far, not an MLA, not a government representative have met them so far,
11:35and therefore they do seem quite miffed about that fact as well.
11:39So on September 15th is that grand meeting of all the fishermen folk living in this vast stretch of Patinambakam
11:47land,
11:47and that's going to exceed more than 5,000 people from the fishermen community who are saying that they oppose
11:53the construction of the new secretariat in Patinambakam.
11:56With Cameraperson Daniel Anagar Keshav reporting for India today.
12:00ইন্ মাম শ়িয়়ে
12:11এনা, মাল পতেন্ পাকতা drownকরা
12:37The other big controversy, law and order.
12:40There have been questions over this for the last many months.
12:43Even in the run-up to the election in Tamil Nadu, it was one of the biggest issues.
12:47With criticism that the DMK faced that there was a breakdown of law and order in Chennai, in Tamil Nadu.
12:53And so that's the biggest challenge for the TVK government.
12:55And there has been another brutal murder in Chennai.
12:59A man hacked to death amid allegations of a money dispute.
13:03When multiple arrests, the political blame came now underway because there are also allegations of police harassment.
13:10The spotlight is firmly on crime, on policing in Chennai and what the Vijay government is going to do to
13:15better these numbers.
13:23Another shocking murder in Chennai.
13:27Victim Pradeep Raj was brutally hacked to death in Chennai on Wednesday.
13:32His family claims the murder was linked to a gang rivalry over money lending.
13:39They alleged they borrowed Rs. 3 lakh but ended up paying Rs. 16 lakh in interest.
13:48And there's another disturbing twist.
13:51Just a day before his murder, Pradeep had accused a police inspector of beating and threatening him.
14:22Now Chennai police say four people, including a history cheater, have been arrested.
14:27And a murder case has been registered.
14:31Pradeep's killing comes just days after another brutal murder in the city.
14:39TVK functionary and history cheater, Kannan, was chased by an armed gang and hacked to death on Saturday.
14:47Police have arrested at least five people in that case.
14:55Two murders, multiple arrests and growing questions over law and order in Chennai.
15:01The political heat is rising too.
15:04DMK MP Kani Muri has attacked Chief Minister Vijay and his government,
15:08alleging that murders and robberies are increasing across the state.
15:13The killings may have different motives, but together they have put Chennai's law and order record under the spotlight.
15:21With Anika Keshav in Chennai, Bureau Report, India Today.
15:28Over to Karnataka, where in the last 48 hours we've been seeing ED searches linked to Karnataka Minister Satish Jarkiholi
15:37and his associates.
15:38This is the second day of these raids by ED teams, multiple locations in Maharashtra and Karnataka.
15:44And that includes Minister Jarkiholi's residence in Gokkak as well as Bengaluru and properties linked to his family members and
15:51associates.
15:5218 locations is where we're seeing these raids being conducted.
15:55Satish Jarkiholi has also been questioned by the Enforcement Directorate.
16:00What is the case right here?
16:02It's over bar licensing and that's why there are raids in Karnataka, Maharashtra and in Goa.
16:09But the politics is what's taken centre stage.
16:11Karnataka Chief Minister D.K. Shivkumar has come out in support of his minister, referring to these raids as political
16:17vendetta,
16:18suggesting that the ED is going after his ministers, essentially to trap them.
16:24Now, the allegations are not just against Satish Jarkiholi, but also his family members.
16:29And the allegation that's being looked into is that they made illegal investments abroad.
16:34Jarkiholi was questioned late into the night last night and today as well.
16:38His close-aids, his family members, all onto the scam.
16:45The video was done before the end of the month.
16:47He had to take a very long time on the date.
16:49He would talk about it now.
16:51The process is about the 2019 per month and after that.
16:53So, the agreement comes out with Amit, 60 per month.
16:54He's always happy to see that.
16:57But if it's no matter, the amount of business and costs will be getting paid for a long time on
17:04the date.
17:04He is more likely to contact Amit if he is required.
17:09Today morning I came to know that my colleague and all his family members have been raided.
17:14It is unfortunate. It is fully a political angle.
17:18He is a businessman. He will answer.
17:21I am confident that he has done nothing wrong.
17:25I know that I don't want to defend of any of his relative issues.
17:29But as far as Satish is concerned, he is a very progressive, forward-looking and a clean politician,
17:37which the Congress party stands committed.
17:41He is a great leader.
17:43The BJP could not digest all the Dalit leaders because we have got the highest number of ST candidates
17:49and Dalit seats in the state of Karnataka.
17:53So they are trying to politically demolish us.
17:57So even in Nagyendra issue, they are trying to create a case without a case.
18:02Then at the same time they are trying to do Satish also.
18:05Nothing will happen.
18:07See, the raids on Mr. Satish Jarkioli is politically motivated.
18:12It is extremely visible.
18:15In the last five, six years, most of the raids have been politically motivated only on opposition leaders.
18:22Look at the statistics.
18:23196 raids and only two convictions.
18:27This shows that it is politically motivated.
18:30This shows that they are trying to intimidate us.
18:34But nothing of that sort will happen.
18:36We are not going to be intimidated by them.
18:38The leadership of BJP in Karnataka is in doldrums.
18:43And they want to do the next election with CBI, IT and ED.
18:47Not with their BJP leaders.
18:49And they want to send a message to the Congress.
18:52Yes, it's a targeted raid.
18:53It is the targeting opposition as usual.
18:56It doesn't surprise the Congress party.
18:59The raid of ED, IT, CBI after 2014 onwards, this is nothing new for us.
19:06And as far as Jarkioli's raid is concerned, they have not raided only Satish Jarkioli.
19:13Satish Jarkioli and his daughter, the member of parliament from Belga, Chikodi, she has also been raided by this Modi
19:22and Tadipar Shah.
19:23And we strongly condemn the attitude of Bharatiya Janta party and NDA that they are targeting all the scheduled tribe
19:33leaders who are flourishing, who are coming up and who have got the lead.
19:43Let's get to breaking news that's coming in.
19:45Rahul Gandhi has now attended the memorial gathering for the Manipuri musician Vikram Singh, who was lynched to death by
19:52a mob in the national capital.
19:54And Rahul Gandhi has lashed out at the administration over what's happened, saying that this violence, hatred and arrogance has
20:02become a fashion these days.
20:04Listen in to exactly what Rahul Gandhi said at that event, which was to, in fact, pay tribute to the
20:09Manipur musician Vikram Singh, who was lynched by a mob.
20:15It's a tragedy.
20:18It's a tragedy on many accounts, not just on one account.
20:26It's a tragedy that a young man has been murdered.
20:34It's also a tragedy that he was attacked because of where he was from.
20:50It's a tragedy for the people of Manipur.
20:55Of course, it's not the only tragedy that the people of Manipur have been facing.
20:59You have been facing huge tragedies again and again and again over the last few years.
21:10So, Rahul Gandhi is suggesting that this trend of violence, of hate against Manipuris is only growing across the country.
21:19Moshmi Singh joining us with more details on this.
21:21Moshmi, there have been several questions really about what led to this kind of lynching to take place in the
21:27heart of the national capital.
21:28But Rahul Gandhi, who's spoken out on this issue, also choosing to attend the ceremony to pay tribute to the
21:34Manipur musician.
21:38That's right.
21:39You know, Rahul Gandhi was there in solidarity and condolence and, you know, there were certain band members of Vikram
21:49Singh who also performed in remembrance and memory of the lead guitarist of a band that we ran.
21:57And there were several family members who spoke about the person he was.
22:03So, it was a condolence ceremony where Vikram Urbobi, the former chief minister of Manipur, was also present.
22:11And Rahul Gandhi, they're talking about hate crimes against the Northeastern and specifically about the situation in Manipur and the
22:21crimes that have been happening.
22:22Saying that it's not about whether he was killed to his death, the fact is that the violence happened, he
22:30was beaten up, and that itself is a terrible, terrible hate crime.
22:35Thanks, Moshmi, for joining us with all of those details.
22:38Let's get you more highlights of exactly what Rahul Gandhi has said in that gathering, where he's questioned the government,
22:44the administration, over this particular incident.
22:48And it really doesn't matter.
22:52What Iboviji said, whether it's a mistake or it's not a mistake.
23:03Because whether he was killed or he was not killed, there was violence in this act.
23:09There was violence, there was hatred, and there was arrogance.
23:17And it is something that has become a fashion these days, that if you are powerful, you can be violent.
23:28If you are powerful, somehow you can be arrogant, somehow you can do whatever you feel like.
23:57We'll be getting you our exclusive BRICS roundtable.
24:00Excerpts of two exclusive conversations with Ram Madhiv and Salman Khorshid coming your way in just a minute.
24:27Excerpts of two exclusive conversations with Ram Madhiv and Salman Khorshid coming your way in just a minute.
24:35One contention is that Chidambaram says that in our time there was a lot of things happening, now there is
24:42nothing happening from BRICS, now there is nothing happening from the BRICS, now there is nothing happening from the BRICS.
25:05I am pretty sure that this BRICS summit will come out with a good statement based on,
25:15overall consensus of 11 member countries and a few invited participant countries, I am quite hopeful about it.
25:25There is a reason for my hope.
25:28When we hosted G20 in 2023, in 20 countries, there was a huge increase in Ukraine-Russia.
25:39There was no consensus in the BRICS, and that was 20 countries.
25:44Again, we made a consensus in the BRICS, and that was a consensus in the BRICS, and that was a
25:54consensus in the BRICS.
26:07Although responsibility was on Indonesia, we, India, played a proactive role, and this was acknowledged by the two countries, Lavrov
26:15and others,
26:16I have acknowledged that in India, there was a consensus in the BRICS in the BRICS.
26:46Statement coming out, emerging out of the consensus, but beyond consensus, between countries, so many interactions happen.
26:55At bilateral level, they happen.
26:57Three, four countries, between them, they happen.
26:58Each country puts forward its agenda, which is accepted by eight countries, nine countries, that will be taken forward.
27:04There will be many other benefits of such gatherings.
27:08Coming out with a statement based on complete consensus is one important thing,
27:14because the BRICS is a promise that there is a consensus in the BRICS, which is a consensus in the
27:21BRICS.
27:21Therefore, you have to make consensus.
27:23Today's situation is a little bit difficult.
27:25We understand.
27:27Like, you know, the Gaza issue is there, the Palestine issue is there, that is a contentious issue.
27:31Then there is this issue of Ukraine.
27:34These contentious issues are there.
27:35Although, in BRICS, Ukraine is not the real issue.
27:40The real issue will be Palestine.
27:41But we will see how things shape up.
27:44But I am pretty confident we will come out with a good statement.
27:48In this, there are two very famous voices.
27:51One is Bharat and one is China.
27:55Our relationship is on the one hand,
27:57which is looking under the LSE and China,
28:01the unresolved moods, which is being put on the one hand,
28:03which is going on the other hand.
28:04This is the hope that after the first time,
28:06the Prime Minister and the Chinese government will sit there,
28:10then there will also be many people on the other hand.
28:12What is our relationship?
28:14BRICS is in the same way,
28:16we will see that the BRICS,
28:18we will break from the BRICS and BRICS.
28:19First of all, BRICS is not a bilateral forum.
28:22So, there is no bilateral issues in BRICS.
28:24There is no bilateral issues in BRICS.
28:25There is no bilateral issues.
28:26There is no bilateral issues in the countries.
28:27There is no bilateral issues in the Netherlands.
28:31And we are very clear, both India and China,
28:34we both countries are very clear,
28:36that the issues between us will purely be dealt with
28:39at the bilateral level.
28:41BRICS is not a bilateral forum.
28:42There is no bilateral forum in the BRICS.
28:44There is no bilateral forum in the BRICS.
28:46BRICS talks about the larger issues of the Global South.
28:50It is the voice of the Global South.
28:52It is a bilateral issue.
28:55Yes, there is no bilateral issues between the two countries.
28:58There is no bilateral issues between the two countries.
29:01But at the same time,
29:02there is also a strong trade relationship.
29:06I am sure we all know that India's trade relationship
29:10with China is $159 billion.
29:12There also we have an issue.
29:14In this $159 billion trade,
29:16trade deficit is more than $100 billion.
29:18I mean our exports and our imports.
29:21A huge mismatch exists.
29:23So we have been trying to increase our exports to China
29:29so that there can be some trade balance.
29:31In that China has to take a few steps,
29:33a few measures.
29:34They have to ease their trade restrictions.
29:37These are the things on which also a lot of negotiations
29:40are going on, on border.
29:42Of course, we have a border commission headed by our NSEA
29:47on our side and foreign minister on their side.
29:49They keep talking and decent talks happened just last week in Beijing.
29:53We are engaged with each other on those issues.
29:56You were speaking about how BRICS is growing.
29:59From five nations to 11 and almost 50 countries,
30:04we are told waiting in the queue to join this grouping.
30:07Does a big group, does a bigger BRICS give heft to India
30:12or does it dilute India's voice?
30:15BRICS from a three country grouping in the beginning,
30:20Russia, India and China was the first group.
30:23From there it became four, it became five,
30:26today it became 11 or probably 12
30:29and it will, there are many other countries which are keen to join.
30:32But today, BRICS has emerged as a very important voice of the Global South.
30:41BRICS is an arrangement in which European powers and America is not in this group.
30:50This group represents the non-Western world.
30:54Today, BRICS has emerged in the most powerful voice of the non-Western world.
31:00And India's important role is, you call it the Global South and you call it the non-Western world.
31:08And please remember, Prime Minister Modi's relations with leaders in the Global South
31:16are a very important factor in India's proactive role in BRICS.
31:22It will definitely help India but it also will help, you know, give a good place to the voice of
31:29Global South.
31:35What benefits are we getting? That's what the former Finance and Home Minister has said.
31:41I don't think the last two or three BRICS summits have resulted in tangible benefits or tangible results emerging from
31:50that you have said that Bharat is a part of the G20, the last year the presidency of Bharat was
31:56a part of the Quad.
31:59What has benefited from all groups of these groups?
32:08When you were doing it, when the UPA hosted the BRICS summit in 2012 here, did anybody say that?
32:19What is the benefit out of it?
32:20That time also remember, we were a part of many other groupings.
32:25Look, that's why I said in the beginning,
32:36But to dismiss that these forums have no relevance is complete lack of understanding of the contemporary global reality.
32:46I'm sorry, it has come from a senior leader of the opposition party.
32:50Somebody who served as India's foreign minister.
32:53At least they should understand that in the current geostrategic, geopolitical scenario,
32:59each of these groupings, for example, BRICS plus today is a group of 11 countries.
33:05And remember, these are not small countries.
33:07I can tell you between China, India and Indonesia, three countries, we are 45% of the world's population.
33:14And do you know that these are the three countries which are registering highest growth rates?
33:197.8, India.
33:215.7, Indonesia.
33:244.5, China.
33:27Fastest growing countries, big economies, on one platform.
33:31We are sitting together, discussing about global issues.
33:34Half of, more than, almost 60% of the world's population is a part of this BRICS arrangement.
33:39If somebody says it is, what is the use of it, I only pity them.
33:45I mean, this is why I have said, this is a nasty attitude.
33:50If someone is doing something else, then we will say, what is it going to happen?
33:54Very important arrangement today.
33:57We look forward to good outcomes from this BRICS summit.
34:02In heteropolarity, countries or group of countries, there will be other forces.
34:06They will be much more powerful.
34:09Today, big tech companies, like, you know, Anthropik, or IBM, or Tesla, you know, these companies,
34:19they are very powerful in the world today.
34:22There are certain individuals, you know, in our rate-wing ecosystem, there are some individuals
34:26that are talking about.
34:27The people who have funded the people who have funded the people who have funded the people,
34:29the people who have funded our country, who want to destabilize our country.
34:32Who is he?
34:33He is just an investor.
34:35I can invoke the name.
34:37We always see the name of George Soros.
34:39George Soros is going to fund our country.
34:43Who is George Soros?
34:44He has a country?
34:45He has a army?
34:46He is just an investor.
34:48But today, that investor is so powerful that countries have to be careful, wary about his
34:53activities.
34:54That is what is called heteropolarity.
34:56And today, the tech companies, especially big tech and deep tech companies have emerged
35:00so powerful.
35:01I'll give you one example.
35:02How powerful they are, just for us to understand.
35:05Google just one week ago announced that they are going to invest 200 billion dollars in
35:13this year on AI.
35:16AI.
35:17200 billion dollars on AI.
35:19I will compare it with what happens in other countries.
35:23We have a national mission.
35:28We have 1,000,000 crore.
35:301,000,000 crore is roughly about 15 billion dollars.
35:34One country's investment is 10-15 times more than the company.
35:39That is the kind of money power.
35:40It's not just about money power.
35:42The technology that they are bringing.
35:44You know, Anthropika, a young technocrat yesterday, he quit the company.
35:49He came out and gave an interview on CNN yesterday night.
35:52I don't know, some of you would have watched it.
35:53He said that, you know, what Anthropika and Open AI are doing is very dangerous.
35:59They are going to finish off the human race.
36:02They will kill all of us.
36:05Will they kill?
36:06Well, maybe he is exaggerating.
36:08But, Tesla ka Elon Musk ne kaha, in five years, you will have 1 billion humanoids, 1 billion
36:16robots.
36:17Duniya ki abadi saap, 7 billion or 8 billion hai, or 1 billion humanoids judenge.
36:24And these humanoids are much more intelligent than you, much more powerful than you.
36:29They will rule the roost.
36:31That's why I'm saying these companies have become really very big, very powerful.
36:36That's the kind of heteropolarity we have entered into today.
36:40Where tech companies, certain individuals, certain NGOs, they become very powerful.
36:48Countries have to deal with them.
36:49Countries have to tackle them.
36:50Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
36:53We have former external affairs minister, Salman Khurshid, senior congress leader in house now.
36:59And, he will ask, and the question that I wish to ask, and decode, and perhaps find some perspective
37:08on, is, can BRICS bridge the political divide?
37:12So, before I put context of it, Salman saab, can BRICS bridge the political divide?
37:20Oh, gosh.
37:22Well, I see it slightly differently.
37:26You are putting it on a macro level.
37:28Can BRICS achieve this?
37:31I would put it on a micro level.
37:35Can we achieve bridging the political divide within BRICS?
37:43That's very important.
37:44Because much of the divide that lies outside BRICS is also now within BRICS.
37:51And, obviously, the changes that are happening in the world are exacerbating that, are emphasizing
37:59that, are amplifying that.
38:01And, therefore, I believe India has a very, very critical role to first patch up things
38:09as far as BRICS is concerned, and then in a unified manner proceed to do something beyond BRICS.
38:15I think that's the priority that we should have.
38:19From G20 to BRICS, we have had two critical presidencies.
38:25G20 was seen as a success because of Delhi Declaration, where India managed to have that paragraph on Ukraine-Russia
38:35war.
38:35And, overall, a declaration of that nature was seen and lauded world over.
38:42BRICS is about consensus.
38:45And, that's where it becomes even more tricky, given the fact that this BRICS, the 18th BRICS summit in India,
38:54is happening in the backdrop of two life conflicts.
38:58Sure.
39:00Disruption in supply chain, Strait of Hormuz closed, which means energy disruption, and tariff wars.
39:12You're right, absolutely.
39:14It's extremely, extremely challenging.
39:17I think much of what India needs to do, along with the partner countries,
39:24within BRICS is something that has been knocking on India's door now for several years.
39:31There were expectations about India in the conflict between Israel and Palestine.
39:41There were expectations when Iran came into the conflict.
39:46There were expectations.
39:48And, I believe there are expectations now, as far as the United States are concerned.
39:51So, the expectations have been knocking on India's door for some time.
39:56And, India has, for a variety of considerations, India has been discreet.
40:02India has been reserved.
40:04India has been careful.
40:07But, now India is in a leadership role in BRICS, and the BRICS countries are meeting in New Delhi.
40:18So, would we not answer the knock on the door, is the question.
40:23I think it's time that we would, and I think we will be, everyone would be watching India's performance in
40:29the BRICS,
40:29to see how we lead from the front, how the divide that goes right across the globe will be stitched
40:41together,
40:42beginning with the area of BRICS and then hoping to go beyond the area of BRICS as well.
40:50You know, since you say that the world is looking towards New Delhi, and all the bilaterals will be watched,
41:00the meetings in particular between Xi Jinping, Prime Minister Modi, and Vladimir Putin will be watched.
41:07Dr. S. Jay Shankar, who is the present External Affairs Minister, has said that the idea of BRICS is that
41:15it is non-Western,
41:19without being anti-West.
41:21It is not really anti-West.
41:24Something that most of the member countries actually share.
41:28That is the view.
41:30Do you think the shades of BRICS has changed from the way it was envisaged to now?
41:37Eighteen years journey, of which several years you were the External Affairs Minister of India.
41:43Well, certainly, certainly, I think we all agree, we all agree that the world is,
41:52should not be pushed towards a greater divide between the Global North and the Global South.
42:01But not at the cost of Global South.
42:03The Global South must have a voice.
42:05The Global South must have greater participation in world governance, in institutions of the globe, etc.
42:16But, obviously, there is a clear divide between becoming anti-something
42:21and being persuasive to hope that there will be change with something that you are not entirely satisfied with.
42:30And that's why I say the onus on India is a very heavy onus.
42:34It's very easy to be anti-something and take an applause, take a bow and say, I've done my job.
42:39But to keep people together and keep your eyes open to what is happening beyond BRICS,
42:47who all are watching and what they would take away from how we perform in the BRICS,
42:52puts a heavy burden on India.
42:54And I do hope, sincerely hope, for the sake of our country
42:58and the sake of everything that each of these institutions means,
43:03I hope that we are able to perform well.
43:06You're hoping that India will perform well.
43:09And your cabinet colleague of those days of UPA, Mr. P. Chidamram, has said,
43:16when asked about BRICS, what benefits are we getting?
43:20And, of course, he has said in the context of that we are part of BRICS,
43:24we are part of SCO, COOD and G20, what benefits are we getting?
43:29Well, I think Mr. Chidamram has some brilliant way of analyzing things.
43:35And I think he's touched on an interesting point.
43:38I was just now talking to some retired diplomats outside and I was asking them,
43:45when do world leaders now get a chance to do any work at home?
43:49Because they're traveling from one summit to another.
43:51There's an SCO and then there's BRICS and there's Quad and there's G20 and there's G7 and so on and
43:57so forth.
43:58When do they sit at home and do any work because they have to travel all the time?
44:02I think possibly, possibly time has come to do a shakeout, maybe rationalize how much each organization can do.
44:15Now, for instance, we are party to BRICS and we are party to Quad.
44:20Quad and BRICS are in many ways completely, completely different.
44:25What is it that we do in BRICS?
44:27How does that influence and what we do in Quad is a big question.
44:31But how much of Quad should be doing what and how much of BRICS should be doing what?
44:37I think this clarity is important now in terms of…
44:41But won't you say that that's classic non-alignment, something that the UPA did, something that India has been doing?
44:48Okay, I think the classic non-alignment is obviously physically not possible anymore.
44:53But abandoning non-alignment, I believe, is wrong.
44:58Non-alignment is attitude. Non-alignment is an ideology.
45:04Non-alignment is an approach to the world.
45:07And I think that possibly the alternative description of multi-alignment doesn't fully, fully adequately respond to what we would
45:18lose if we cease to be non-aligned.
45:21This is something that scholars need to work on.
45:23But from my point of view, multi-alignment is an escape.
45:28It's not something realistic.
45:32Non-alignment was, I believe, something very realistic.
45:35But Salman Saab, given the times that we are living in, given how challenging the situation is, given how uncertain
45:44the things are, and you are dealing with a completely uncertain White House as well, given how things are globally,
45:53don't you think being at the high table matters?
45:58And that's why, if India is part of G20, you know, is a member of Quad, Brics, SCO, that proves
46:08to be advantageous for the country.
46:10No, no, absolutely. I mean, one can't but say that we are proud that we are at the high table.
46:16There is no, there is no qualification of that and there is no ifs and buts as far as that's
46:22concerned.
46:22I do get worried when somebody gives an impression that we have now arrived at the high table.
46:28We have been at the high table for some time.
46:31We were at the high table even when we were leading the non-aligned movement in the world.
46:36We had nothing going for us. We had just become independent.
46:39But we still said we will provide leadership to the oppressed of the world and we did.
46:45When the north-south negotiations happened, we provided representation to the global south, etc.
46:53So we are at the high table and we are proud to be at the high table.
46:56The higher you go and the greater the table that you attend, you must be able to show that every
47:04minute that you are there, you are worth it.
47:06And I think that's the challenge that India must.
47:09We can't just simply keep saying we are at the high table, now we've made it.
47:14Because you can't rest on your laurels.
47:17You have to continue performing, continue outbidding.
47:20Now, you talked about the White House.
47:22Now, that's a big challenge. Dealing with the White House today is a big challenge.
47:25But given that it's a big challenge to deal with the White House, we also know that the White House
47:32may not be as permanent as it looks
47:34and as invincible as it looks because November elections might change everything.
47:39So if November elections change everything, we have to keep our options clearly open to deal with the United States
47:46of America beyond November 2026.
47:49So, some things can happen, some things can change, but we must be ready either way.
47:56Whatever happens in November 2026, we should be ready with a plan that can then be made operational, whichever be
48:05the result or whatever be the result in the White House.
48:08So, here again, what is the topic of this discussion, which is about bridging the political divide?
48:14Sure.
48:15That's where, when you speak about the November election, that's domestic political divide.
48:20Well, I don't think you can keep domestic politics out of international politics anymore.
48:26I mean, you look at what's happening in Europe, the shift towards conservatism, the shift to the right, etc.
48:33Look at what is possibly going to happen in Israel, the projections that are coming for the elections in October
48:40in Israel, etc.
48:42The projections that are coming, a lot to do with domestic politics.
48:46Which way the domestic politics will go, right, left, centre, is another matter.
48:50But there are clear signals that domestic politics in some countries, by taking a turn in a particular manner, will
49:00impact that country's participation in what's happening in the globe.
49:04And that's equally true about India, it's true about America, it's true about Canada, it's true about every country that
49:11we can speak of.
49:20Thank you very much for, our of all time.
49:23Thank you first.
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