00:00She covers the Browns for the Plain Dealer, Cleveland.com, the Orange and Brown Talk podcast.
00:05You want to hear everything she has to say?
00:07Man, is she busy.
00:08Yeah, she is.
00:09She's Mary Kay Cabot.
00:10Hi, Mary Kay.
00:11Hi, Mary Kay.
00:12Hey, guys.
00:13How are you doing?
00:14We're doing well.
00:16Do you think this is more of what they saw from Deshaun or what they didn't see from Shadour?
00:23Well, I think there are some football things here that people really need to remember.
00:28Todd Munkin is going out and trying to win in Jacksonville on September 13th.
00:33This was a football decision.
00:35Now, it's not only things that we see out here on the football field.
00:39It's things that they do in the classroom.
00:41And it's the game planning that they want to do that nobody has seen anything of yet, right?
00:48They believe that they can use Deshaun Watson's mobility in that game.
00:52And they can use cadence as a weapon in that game.
00:56And there's just a lot of things that he's going to be ready to do on September 13th that
01:01they don't feel Shadour is ready to do yet.
01:04And that's the whole key to this.
01:06This is a football decision through and through.
01:09Todd Munkin is not going to do anything else other than go out and try to win that game.
01:15And he believes in his heart of hearts that Deshaun will give him that better chance.
01:20Now, does it mean that Shadour isn't good, that he's not going to be good?
01:24It doesn't mean any of that.
01:25He's coming up the learning curve.
01:27But here's another thing to remember.
01:29He's not building on what he learned last year in the Kevin Stefanski offense.
01:32It's all brand new to him.
01:34It's all brand new.
01:35And it's a QB control offense.
01:37It takes a lot to stand at that line of scrimmage and do all the things that you're expected
01:42to do in this Todd Munkin offense.
01:43And he's going to get it.
01:45And he's getting it quickly.
01:46But he probably doesn't have it quite yet.
01:49Because if he did, he would probably be starting this game on September 13th.
01:54How close do you think it was in the end?
01:57Well, I think it was close in large part because Shadour Sanders has done a really nice job of
02:04making plays throughout camp and throughout practice.
02:07And I know this is what is the hard part for people to understand.
02:11If you look out there and you see some of the clips on the internet and on Twitter,
02:15and you might think, oh, he's making more explosive plays.
02:18He's not throwing in the interceptions.
02:19And that is true.
02:21And sometimes I even think, geez, maybe you should just chuck everything else out the
02:24window and go with the guy that has been making more explosive plays.
02:29But that's really not how this all works.
02:32You have to operate effectively and efficiently to be able to get the job done, to be able
02:38to put yourself in position to make those explosive plays.
02:42So, I just think that it was close.
02:45I do.
02:46I believe it was close.
02:47And I believe that Shadour is really, really so much better than he was last year.
02:52And if he gets in there, whenever he gets in there, I think he's going to do a really nice
02:57job.
02:57I just think they want him to be a little bit more seasoned before they throw him in there.
03:02Mary Kay, that all makes perfect sense, I think.
03:05And I would guess we see Shadour at some point this year, unless Deshaun goes out and plays
03:11well and that lasts and he stays healthy and all that.
03:14The thing I wonder about, it almost seems to me that they've punted on the idea that they
03:20have a franchise quarterback on this team.
03:22Because it's a small window to find out if you do with that 20-27 draft and all those draft
03:29picks for capital to move up in with, it just seems to me, hey, you're going to miss your
03:35opportunity to show that you can be the guy.
03:38Is there anything to that?
03:40No, not at all.
03:41I'm sorry.
03:41I have to disagree with you on that.
03:43Because he started seven games last season.
03:46They do have a body of work on him in that offense, in that scheme.
03:49And I do believe that he will get opportunities to play this season and show what he can do
03:56in Todd Munkin's scheme.
03:57And I think that it will be better off for him to be ready to play when he gets that
04:02opportunity,
04:03to be able to go out there and function effectively and efficiently.
04:07If you throw him into this offense with this brand new offensive line and brand new rookie
04:13receivers and everybody learning new terminology and having very little practice time together
04:19so far and expect him to go down to Jacksonville, have to use a silent count and all of the
04:26things
04:26that are going to happen on the road and get everybody's act together as the point guard
04:30of the team.
04:30If you throw him into that situation and he's not 100% ready for it, then I think you would
04:36be doing him a disservice as well as doing your football team a disservice.
04:40He's got to be ready to operate.
04:43He's got to be able to get in and out of the huddle as quickly as he needs to.
04:45He's got to get rid of the ball as quickly as he needs to.
04:49And that's just how it has to be.
04:53And once he's ready to do that, then I think he's going to be able to show out much better
04:59than he would if he's not ready.
05:01So that's what fans I wish could grasp is the fact that it wouldn't be doing anybody
05:07any good for him to go out there before he's ready to play well.
05:11All right, let me throw this out for Devil's Advocate.
05:14We hear Dylan Gabriel has been phenomenal with all that stuff.
05:21He's not even in the conversation anymore, right?
05:25You mean to go out and start?
05:27To run the offense.
05:29I mean, he didn't even get a chance.
05:31No, he did not get a chance because they had to make a decision here.
05:35They didn't want to do a three-way quarterback competition and divide the reps up that way.
05:39He was not in the mix to be the starter.
05:42But he does do a nice job of operating the scheme and handling things at the line of scrimmage
05:48and all that kind of stuff because he has experience doing that.
05:51You know, he's done that.
05:52Deshaun has done that.
05:53Deshaun was in a quarterback control offense in Houston where you have all of that responsibility.
05:58And Shador is learning it.
06:00There's nothing wrong with it.
06:01There's no shame in having to learn a new skill.
06:05There's no shame in it.
06:06But sometimes it just takes a little bit of time.
06:10So, you know, I don't know if – I mean, we'll see what Dylan can do on Thursday night.
06:16But, once again, it's really hard to compare apples to apples when he's going to be with the backups.
06:23I often wonder what did Dylan Gabriel do wrong, you know, and then –
06:28Got hurt, Andy.
06:28Well, yeah, and then you wonder – and then I think the other part of it is, you know,
06:33what was Kevin thinking when all this stuff was going down?
06:36And then you also have to wonder, and I hate to say it, but there's probably some politics to everything
06:41here
06:41and there's money to everything too.
06:43I mean, I know we all want to sit here and think that – and I hope that it's Todd
06:48Munkin deciding,
06:49this guy is my first best quarterback, this guy is my second, this guy is my third.
06:53But, I mean, reality tells you it's not always that way.
06:56If I'm wrong, tell me I'm wrong.
06:58Well, I just don't believe that that's how it's going down right now.
07:01I do believe that he feels like Deshaun gives him the best chance to win,
07:06that Shadour is the backup, and that Dylan is the number three quarterback if he remains on this roster.
07:11And after Thursday night, maybe somebody will see something in him and say,
07:16hey, we need another backup on our roster and we're willing to give you something for him.
07:22So maybe he'll end up here, maybe he won't.
07:25But there is another point that I would like to make here about Deshaun,
07:29and I understand why this is difficult for people to understand this.
07:34He hasn't been the Houston version of himself even in this camp.
07:38He still is knocking off the rust.
07:41He really is.
07:42And he doesn't have the chemistry with some of these guys
07:45and the timing with some of these receivers and these pass catchers that he really needs.
07:51And he's got a long way to go to get up to speed by September 13th.
07:55He had to alternate days, and they have to make up for some lost time here.
08:00He did not throw the ball all last year to Jerry Judy or to Isaiah Bond or to Harold Fannin.
08:08I mean, Shador actually has the edge in that regard because he threw to those guys.
08:13So Deshaun has plenty of catching up to do, and it doesn't look like a well-oiled machine yet.
08:19But I think that Todd Munkin should be able to find enough good things for him to do
08:24that he can go out there, manage the game effectively, get them in and out of situations,
08:30get rid of the ball quickly enough, or at least this is his thinking,
08:34this is Todd's thinking, that he can give him the best chance to win.
08:38But right now, to me, it looks like they still have a long way to go.
08:43Mary Kay, should they have just named him the starter before training camp
08:46and given him the reps so that maybe the offense would be more ready to go?
08:51Well, you guys know that I said that back in April,
08:55and I got in some hot water for that with some people.
09:02Shoulder people didn't care for you very much when you said that, Mary Kay?
09:06No, but the reason why I said it is because, and really I was mostly talking about,
09:10let him take all the first team reps in OTAs.
09:14That's what I thought would be an important thing to do
09:16because from what I saw in April at the volunteer carry minicamp,
09:23I saw one quarterback who was ready to completely operate this scheme
09:27and one who was going to have a long way to go.
09:29And it was going to depend on how fast Shador was going to be able to come up that learning
09:34curve
09:34and meet Deshaun and close that gap, but he had a long way to go at that point.
09:39And when I saw that, I thought, call it now, at least give him all the first team reps,
09:43let Deshaun knock the rust off, let him get his timing down with Casey and Denzel
09:48and Isaiah Bond and Jerry Judy.
09:50If you really think in your heart of hearts, he's your starting quarterback.
09:52That's why I felt the way that I did back then, because it did seem to me that Shador
09:59had a pretty steep learning curve in this sort of complicated QB control offense.
10:06But they had their reasons for doing what they did.
10:09They wanted to make it a fair competition.
10:11They wanted to give Shador a chance to be the starting quarterback of this team.
10:15And it didn't work out that way, where he was able to do that.
10:19But I do understand why they wanted to see it.
10:22And now when he has to go out there and play this season, which we all know he will,
10:27he will be more ready than he would have been.
10:30Mary Kay, I know we spend a lot of time talking about the quarterbacks here.
10:33And if the starters aren't going to play on Thursday,
10:35what is up for grabs as far as making a roster spot on Thursday night?
10:40And, you know, how many of you, I'm wondering what, you know, defensively,
10:45what they're going to look like, you know, depth-wise when the season starts.
10:49So I'm just curious, what spots do you think are up for grabs on Thursday?
10:53You know, the most intriguing thing to me on Thursday night, really,
10:58I'm interested to see how Dylan Gabriel does, and I'm also interested to see Talon Green.
11:03Now we're talking Mary Kay.
11:05Right?
11:05I want to see, I want to see Talon Green.
11:08I've always been intrigued by him.
11:10On draft day, before they drafted him, I wrote a column saying they should draft Talon Green.
11:15So I was very happy when they did that because I just thought he brings such a unique skill set,
11:226'6", 4.36 in the 40.
11:26Who doesn't want to see that on Thursday night?
11:28So I think it gives fans a reason to tune in and go to the game.
11:32It's one of the things that I'm really going to be watching for.
11:35There aren't very, very many positions up for grabs right now.
11:39I mean, we pretty much know who's going to make the team and who's not going to make the team.
11:44And, you know, I think in my mind, it's most intriguing to watch those two guys
11:49and see where they're going to land when all is said and done.
11:52There are a few receivers that, you know, you might want to say,
11:56hey, you know, what's going to happen with a Luke Floria, who's had an excellent, excellent camp?
12:00And, you know, what happens with some of those kind of guys?
12:04But for the most part, I think most positions are settled.
12:08Mary Kay, we've enjoyed your coverage.
12:09You've done a great job on all this stuff.
12:11We'll keep reading and I look forward to seeing Talon Green coming up on Thursday.
12:15Here we go.
12:16Thanks, Mary Kay.
12:18Sounds good.
12:18Thanks, guys.
12:19Mary Kay Cabot, Plain Dealer, Cleveland.com, Orange and Brown Talk Podcast.
12:23Thanks, McGill.com, Orange and Brown Talk Podcast..
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