- 1 week ago
Abdel Khawatmi left personal injury law for mortgage after experiencing firsthand how poor communication can derail the homebuying experience. Eight years later, he’s built a high-producing business around the opposite idea: educate relentlessly, communicate clearly and stay close to the client.
In Part 1, Abdel breaks down his “Six Cs of Conversion Tracking” and explains why conversations—not leads, rates or even content—may be the most overlooked part of an originator’s business. He also opens up his AI stack, showing how he records and analyzes client conversations, improves scripts and uses tools like ChatGPT, Claude, Fireflies and NotebookLM to become a better originator and partner.
This isn’t AI for novelty’s sake. It’s a look inside how one producer is using technology to systematically get better at the human side of mortgage.
Related to the episode:
Zeb Lowe’s LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/zebulon-lowe-a02353a4/
Abdel Khawatmi's LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/abdel-khawatmi-79a511144/
PRMG Got Mortgages
https://gotmortgages.com/
The Power House podcast brings the biggest names in housing to answer hard-hitting questions about industry trends, operational and growth strategy, and leadership. Join HousingWire’s Zeb Lowe every Thursday morning for candid conversations with industry leaders to learn how they’re differentiating themselves from the competition. Hosted and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
In Part 1, Abdel breaks down his “Six Cs of Conversion Tracking” and explains why conversations—not leads, rates or even content—may be the most overlooked part of an originator’s business. He also opens up his AI stack, showing how he records and analyzes client conversations, improves scripts and uses tools like ChatGPT, Claude, Fireflies and NotebookLM to become a better originator and partner.
This isn’t AI for novelty’s sake. It’s a look inside how one producer is using technology to systematically get better at the human side of mortgage.
Related to the episode:
Zeb Lowe’s LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/zebulon-lowe-a02353a4/
Abdel Khawatmi's LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/abdel-khawatmi-79a511144/
PRMG Got Mortgages
https://gotmortgages.com/
The Power House podcast brings the biggest names in housing to answer hard-hitting questions about industry trends, operational and growth strategy, and leadership. Join HousingWire’s Zeb Lowe every Thursday morning for candid conversations with industry leaders to learn how they’re differentiating themselves from the competition. Hosted and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
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NewsTranscript
00:00This week on Powerhouse, we're sitting down with Abdel Khawatmi to get under the hood of what actually drives production
00:05in today's mortgage market.
00:07From his six C's of conversion tracking to the AI-driven systems behind his daily content and seven-day clear
00:13-to-close stories,
00:14Abdel shares the moves leadership, LOs, and agents need to be making in order to win in the next cycle.
00:31All right, Abdel, thank you for joining me.
00:32Thank you. Thanks for having us. Appreciate it.
00:34Of course. Yeah, so I first heard you on Dustin Owen's TLOP podcast, which I'm a big fan of, and
00:44I liked what you had to say,
00:46and I wanted the chance to speak to you.
00:49Just coincidentally, we met in D.C. a few months ago, and I got to know you a bit.
00:55So, again, really looking forward to this conversation, and I'm happy that we could get you on Powerhouse.
01:02I wanted, I guess, you know, kind of before we get into the meat of what I wanted to talk
01:07through with you,
01:07can you share a bit about your journey into the industry and start there,
01:15and then kind of tell how you got from getting into the industry to ultimately where you are now?
01:20Yeah. So, Abdel Khawatmi, I'm with Paramount Residential Mortgage Troop, Got Mortages.
01:24I've been here. Actually, today is my eight-year anniversary, which I did not know until, you know, corporate reached
01:31out.
01:32Only been with the same company throughout my career, right?
01:37And, you know, I got into it. I was originally going to law school, actually.
01:42I was going to Rutgers University, which is a state university in Jersey, and my wife got pregnant, right?
01:48And at the time, we were dating. So, she actually gave birth to, who was about to be 15 in
01:55January, our daughter.
01:57And it was senior year of college. So, I was like, holy crap.
02:01But, you know, I ended up, obviously, veering out of law school, right? Deciding between about to have a kid.
02:08Luckily, I was able to finish. Rutgers graduated. We both have been together since 2008, so 18 years.
02:17And we're just cranking away, right? You know, going through the ebbs and flows, I think, you know, I got
02:23into mortgages in itself because I, you know, when I graduated from school, I ended up working for a law
02:28firm for quite some time.
02:29And it was specifically a personal injury firm. So, basically, you get your cases settled. What do you do when
02:34you get a lot of money? You want to buy a house, right?
02:36Right. So, we did, right? I ended up buying my own, you know, property. And I'm like, I just did
02:42not like the experience, one.
02:43Two, as I always say, what makes us successful now and what made me want to get into the business
02:49was communication, right?
02:51Just staying consistent, educating, providing that level of service. And I had such a great relationship with my clients at
02:56the time.
02:57So, I was doing both at the same time, very briefly, for about a year, working at the law firm,
03:02using that as a gateway for consumers, frankly.
03:04And at the same time, doing mortgages. And then I had one month, June of 2019, I had six closings
03:12in one month.
03:14And I was like, oh, this is pretty cool. And our business, you know, our business since then, you know,
03:21has been awesome.
03:23Yeah. You know, I don't have too dissimilar of a story. I started, I got into this industry originally as
03:32a college professor, as an English professor.
03:36And I knew very quickly that it was not from a, from a pay standpoint, it wasn't going to be
03:41able to provide for a family that I didn't have at the time, but I, but I wanted to have.
03:46And, and, and I met my wife and I'd kind of, I'd become friends with a local loan originator who
03:52was kind of like recruited me to teach.
03:56Basically, he wanted someone that could go and talk to, you know, like a, a realtor's luncheon or first time
04:02home buyer seminar at a coffee shop or something like that.
04:04Right. And, and, and so I would kind of, I was kind of doing that and feeling my way through
04:10and my wife got pregnant with her first and that really, like, you know, that really sparked a fire to,
04:17to, to ratchet things up a notch on the mortgage front.
04:21And yeah, I never, I mean, I'm here now. I never, I never looked back, but it was, you know,
04:26that definitely increased my, my production and my drive.
04:29Let's go. Yeah.
04:30A kid will do that.
04:32Yeah. Right.
04:33Well, so, okay. So you have something that's really interesting. I want to talk to you about that for the,
04:38the powerhouse audiences is, is, is unique in that we, we have originators listening to the show.
04:43We have, you know, we have, we have executives and leadership that listens to this show.
04:48We have people in the real estate world, we have home builders.
04:51And so it's kind of, it's a crossroads of kind of all the, the, the verticals that, that housing wire
04:56makes content for and serves as an audience at large.
05:00So I want to kind of talk about your, your, your experience and your insights across the, across the board.
05:08One of the things that I really thought was interesting is your, your, your six C's of conversion tracking, right?
05:15You have like a mastermind class that you lead and it's content, client, convert, at least I had to write
05:21it down.
05:22Content, client, conversations, credit, contract, closings.
05:26And so which one of those do you think most originators and agents underestimate?
05:33Conversations.
05:34Okay. Can you expand on that?
05:36Yeah. So, so dialing it back, right?
05:38So content is what you put out there, not just social media, hyperlocal too, right?
05:44And that's usually what people will put out there and, and hopefully they're tracking the professional insights and all that,
05:49right?
05:49The next side, obviously client, generally people know I spoke to 10 clients.
05:54I spoke to 20 clients, so on and so forth, right?
05:56I think the conversation style is where people don't realize, am I going too long?
06:02Am I going too short and what is actually being successful?
06:06And it's such a, it's so hard to track them too, right?
06:09Now, AI has made things a little bit easier because now we can record conversations.
06:14We can ask it to basically, you know, grade you on those conversations.
06:19Could I have maybe shown more empathy?
06:22Could I have maybe shown a little bit of more, you know, analytical approach with the consumer, whatever the case
06:29may be, right?
06:29And I would probably go on a whim and say a lot of people don't do that.
06:34And even sometimes I catch myself where, you know, you deal with a, like right before we were, we were
06:41backstage, right?
06:42And we were talking and I was like, every single deal is a goddamn headache right now, right?
06:46And it's sure, it's just, it's the nature of the market.
06:48It's, you know, Jersey here on the East coast, which is predominantly where my book is, is the wild, wild
06:54west right now, right?
06:56East coast summer is brutal, right?
06:58Super, super hot.
07:00A lot of issues with homes, a lot of issues with inspections.
07:03So people could track that stuff, right?
07:04Closings, you could track.
07:05I would hope you're looking at your credit polls and you're understanding that, oh, holy crap, I pulled the most
07:11credit polls.
07:12And now two months later, I have so much closings.
07:15Yeah, there's a direct correlation.
07:16The more credit generally that you pull, traditionally, you're going to have more contracts to closings and stuff.
07:21But I think combo would be one that I don't believe, based on experience, people are usually tracking as much
07:27as they should be.
07:29Let's go back.
07:29You said something in passing, which is just funny to me.
07:35Like, oh, yeah, you know, like using AI to analyze, record a conversation, just like, you know, like every loan
07:41originator does.
07:41Not everybody does that.
07:42You would hope.
07:43Yeah.
07:44So like, when did you start doing that?
07:46What made you decide to do?
07:47Where'd you get that idea from?
07:48How does that, how are you implementing that?
07:50How often do you, is that one of those things where it's like a, I can, just like anything that's
07:55like a soft skill.
07:56You learn a lot of it.
07:57It's just like a lot of sales through reps.
08:00There's a, there's a structure that you follow, but there's a period of, there's a period of intense, you know,
08:06training, scrutiny, analysis after the fact.
08:08And then you get the vibe, you get the feel, you can kind of, you know what I mean?
08:12But, you know, how often are you still doing this yourself?
08:15Walk me through that whole process because that's really fascinating and very forward thinking.
08:19Every single conversation I have with a consumer, whether it's on Zoom or whether it's on the phone predominantly, is
08:27being recorded, right?
08:28So we use RingCentral, which is our, just our office, our office platform for calls.
08:33RingCentral automatically allows you to record the calls, right?
08:36And it tells the consumers that consent is there.
08:38This call is being recorded, right?
08:40And then what we normally do from there is if it's on Zoom, I've got it.
08:45And you know, I'm a big system structured guy, right?
08:48Do it in, set it, forget it.
08:50If it's on Zoom immediately, we use Fireflies.
08:53So Otter, Fireflies, Fathom, whichever.
08:55I've just stuck with Fireflies because it works.
08:59It automatically zaps to my team with Zapier.
09:03So Fireflies comes in automatically.
09:05Well, let me take a step back.
09:07It automatically jumps on the calls by itself, right?
09:09And this is, we've been doing this for like three years, right?
09:12I used to do it just for agent meetings, right?
09:16When we have our partner meetings and trainings.
09:18We would do it, record a transcription, send a transcription.
09:20Oh my God, this is so freaking cool, right?
09:23But everybody starts doing that.
09:24Now it's right when you jump on a meeting and you'd be remissed if there's not six or
09:30seven different AI note carriers that are in there.
09:32Yeah, we have a joke.
09:33I mean, that's a very common joke.
09:34Now we have a meeting with three people and it shows like nine people or three.
09:38There's like the Zoom note taker and then everybody's own Otter or Firefly.
09:41Yeah, I get it.
09:42Totally.
09:43So of course, we're always looking for ways to improve and evolve, especially with AI.
09:50So now what we do, and this is, I won't say it's a secret because I'm an open playbook,
09:55is we actually have that recording taken.
09:58My team will then plug the meeting transcript to Notebook LM, right?
10:04And we actually create generally three things, a video overview, a slide deck, and an infograph.
10:13And man, let me tell you, it is so powerful.
10:17It is like ridiculously, like people see it.
10:20Even I watch sometimes the recording.
10:22I'm like, holy shit.
10:23And it picks up everything, right?
10:24Because Firefly is taking over the conversation.
10:26It articulates it.
10:27They now just made an update where you can actually edit them.
10:32So at one point, you couldn't edit the slide.
10:34Now you can edit the slide.
10:36So make sure you put got mortgages.
10:38Make sure you, as we were joking, right, with Rebecca offstage, you know, how to say my
10:42name.
10:42Make sure that you spell it correctly, right?
10:46Make sure you don't mention, say, if I mention numbers or revenue or whatever, like remove
10:52that part, right?
10:53It's so cool, dude, because we take it and then we're structured now where I have a
10:57business development manager.
10:59Whenever we're doing partner meetings, he will then take that, summarize our conversation.
11:05We've created a Claude project to basically summarize it short, keep it short, three sentences,
11:12max in a conversational guerrilla tone fashion, right?
11:16So it does the whole thing, breaks it all down, and then fires it out, right, to the partner
11:22with all the attachments.
11:25Consumers, same thing as well.
11:27Okay.
11:27Let me ask you, what about the feedback on guiding the conversation?
11:31Like, you know, you were not empathetic enough, or this conversation took too long.
11:35What are you, is that something that you are initially setting this up?
11:40Is that you kind of going in, reviewing or listening to these calls, and then providing
11:45the feedback to, like, say, Claude or whatever LLM that you were using, like, this, you know,
11:51review this transcript, and in this transcript, note that the call went on too long, and note
11:56that the LO needed to have injected empathy at this certain point, or provided too much
12:01feedback at this point, so that you're training the LLM to view conversations as you view conversations,
12:07which you can then translate and provide that feedback to your agents.
12:11Is that 100%?
12:13Yeah, that literally, so the instructions are given on the back end through the project.
12:16Hey, I want you to do this, I want you to do this, I want you to do that, and
12:20then record
12:21it.
12:21There's platforms out there, too.
12:24I think it's called Silo is one.
12:29I know it was big with Zillow.
12:31That allows them the opportunity to essentially record, right, the call, and it'll automatically
12:36come in and do it.
12:37I don't know if they have an exclusive relationship, but I know Silo is definitely one that they
12:42use.
12:44That's interesting.
12:45I had a thing, I did a powerhouse, it's like a solo powerhouse episode several months back
12:50where I talked about the importance of getting recommended through AI, but basically chat,
12:58more than that.
12:58I mean, you say AI, everybody thinks chat, GPT, although in this world, we know how many,
13:03as a recommended lender.
13:04And then how you might go about doing that, which is very different than if you're going
13:07to appear as a Google search result.
13:10I would say, yep.
13:11And my whole point in that was that, I was kind of tongue in cheek, I called the episode
13:16the Dane Cook window.
13:17You and I, we're of the time period, we remember Dane Cook.
13:20And I've talked about this before, but what made Dane Cook so popular as a comedian, not
13:25that he wasn't a funny guy or anything, but he hopped on MySpace, he was an early adopter,
13:28he understood networking and social media at a level that no one else did.
13:33And so he kind of bypassed, you know, booking agents and traditional tours, built up this
13:39community on MySpace and just swallowed up all this market share.
13:43And then by the time other comedians, his peers that were even arguably funnier than him,
13:48they got on MySpace, they tried it up.
13:50They were so, and I feel like it's like a land grab, like a gold rush.
13:53And for the, like what you're doing right now, like that's a lot, that is not a insignificant
13:58amount of work to do upfront, but I can only imagine just the dividends, especially as a
14:03systems, right?
14:04The dividends that it pays upfront and the, um, the new, a lot of, I think what we're,
14:11what a lot of people tend to do, you know, and I know that you know this cause you've,
14:15you're as you've been here for eight years, right?
14:17And you're, and you've got, you know, a presence and a book of business that is comparable to
14:21someone that's been in the, they're like hosted on 20 years.
14:24You know what I mean?
14:24And so, um, one of the things that, that the industry has is this, uh, a problem with,
14:31uh, uh, really real innovation, effective innovation and a tech adoption.
14:36And, uh, and the, the, the initial, I guess, mindset or, uh, the, the, the call to superimpose
14:47new tech onto legacy systems and not really think about it in a, uh, in a, in a more efficient
14:55way or an actually in an innovative way.
14:57It was like, we're just going to layer on top of a legacy system, this new stuff.
15:02And then you don't get any real measurable, uh, gains from that.
15:07So I think what you're doing, uh, just speaks to the importance of the kind of re rethinking
15:13the, the, the process of what it means to be a mortgage, like a modern mortgage originator,
15:18a modern, you know, housing professional and working with the tools that you have available
15:23and kind of focusing on the areas upfront where you can invest, uh, heavily that will
15:28pay off and, uh, in, in spades later on.
15:32And I'm curious to know what other, what other areas, I guess, are you kind of, have
15:37you, have you reworked or are you, have you, have you invested heavily in the process to
15:42make a different type of system?
15:44We are constantly innovating, like constantly, right?
15:47And, and the system's obviously not broken, but it's moving so fast, right?
15:53Whether it's AI, whether it's technology, whether it's a, but like I've shared, and I know
15:57you've heard me say this all the time, I've never been more on the phone, um, than ever
16:01before, which is, which is like, wait, what the fuck you have, you have AI do this and
16:05you have that.
16:05And I'm like, yeah, dude, I'm actually having fun combos with clients.
16:08Right.
16:09Um, and like the, the numbers part, right?
16:12Like mortgage coach, every single consumer gets a TCA from the initial application.
16:19It's done.
16:19It's set.
16:20It's set it and forget it.
16:21Application comes in.
16:22Same thing.
16:22My team automatically gets zapped.
16:24They know they, there's a full blown structure in place where they're creating a MBS highway,
16:30a pre-approval buyer journey.
16:32Dude, the old way we used to do that was like actually downloading all the real estate report
16:38cards and downloading the buy versus wait and all that stuff, and then sending it to the
16:42consumer dripped via our own individual CRM.
16:46They came out and built the pre-approval buyer journey.
16:49Great.
16:49Good.
16:50Done.
16:50Perfect.
16:51Right.
16:51Uh, the TCA mortgage coach, right?
16:54I can't tell you how many times, not just for the consumer, because it's a regimented
16:59process, right?
17:00When an application comes in the team, right?
17:02We have our LP one, right?
17:04Loan processor one grabs it and does a group text between me client and the realtor.
17:10So there's a section.
17:12How did you hear about us?
17:12It's the real estate agent.
17:13If they know, they don't know they're texting me or they're texting my LOA and they're like,
17:18Hey, who's a realtor on this?
17:19So there's a group text, but the communication is established in the beginning and we'll hit
17:24them with that TCA man.
17:26I can't tell you how powerful, right?
17:29That, that professional is looking at it and they're like, Oh my God, this is, this is the
17:33coolest thing, right?
17:34Cause we're getting educated.
17:35We're being updated on the actual numbers and we're actually finding out everything
17:38that's happening along the way.
17:40You also are, you produce a ton of content too.
17:44Like I said, I, I, uh, I first heard about you through, through T-Lop and then, you know,
17:49subsequently I met you and I saw, I kind of looked you up and looked at your podcast and
17:53you got, how long have you been doing your podcast?
17:55How many years?
17:56Dude, we just hit 703 videos on YouTube.
18:00Um, and we just, we just actually made an infograph on that.
18:05Um, the pod, I like, we religiously got into it about, I would say four years ago.
18:13Right.
18:14Okay.
18:14Cause you're like a 250 episodes or, I mean, you 200 and something episodes.
18:18Yeah.
18:18Yeah.
18:19Yeah.
18:19We're at two, 200 and I have no idea, but 250 something.
18:22Um, we built out my, in my new office, you can see it right there.
18:28Um, we just built out the podcast studio.
18:31So now I actually have one of our in-house, um, teammates videographer.
18:35Um, he comes in, he shoots, I mean, we're shooting an average of six, seven episodes,
18:41um, every two weeks.
18:42Right.
18:43And it's not just me, right.
18:45It's for my originators.
18:46Right.
18:46So my originators are bringing their referral partners.
18:49So now the referral partner simultaneously gets their brand exposure and then they're
18:54having great educational conversations.
18:56We try to actually keep it like tight and short, maybe 25, 30 minutes max.
19:03Um, just because I, I tracked the metrics and I started noticing at what point did people
19:08drop off?
19:09And it was at that 30 minute mark.
19:11So I literally have a timer I'm looking at right now.
19:14It's a ticker and it tells me we started.
19:17It's like a shot clock and it moves, you know, up and down and then it'll tell you
19:21eventually, you know, what the, what the numbers are.
19:24And then you take it from there.
19:25Yeah.
19:25Actually funny you say that I do too.
19:27And I'm, I'm, I'm looking at it right now and you're right.
19:29I knew about five minutes into this conversation that this was going to turn into a two-parter
19:33conversation because it depends usually how good the, how good the convo is, whether
19:38it's a, you know, tight 30 or we, we split it up between two episodes.
19:41This is gonna be a two-parter.
19:41I already know it.
19:42Um, so, okay.
19:44Uh, one of the things that I enjoyed about your podcast too, is the, uh, one, it's not
19:47just, not just you, but it's also kind of like every episode.
19:50You really don't know.
19:51I listened to, I listened to one a while back.
19:52It was like, it was just a four minute.
19:54You can hear things like you hear phone calls.
19:56It's like you were in the office and sounds like people were working behind you and you
19:58and it was a four minute, just a market analysis basically.
20:02Yeah.
20:02Every Monday we do, we do a Monday market update every Monday, Friday, the team does a Monday.
20:07I, uh, I'm sorry, Friday, they do a market signals.
20:11So, so, um, so Eric and his team, right.
20:15With model match, um, they've, they've like revamped their entire platform.
20:20It's, it's an awesome, right.
20:22Um, the old one was great, but the new platform with some of the data and I'm a data geek,
20:27right.
20:28We're, as we say, we're a sales gorilla.
20:31So, so I use that data, right.
20:33I had a, uh, conversation today with an, with a loan officer, right.
20:37Um, and I've like, I know everything about him and not just your traditional, like transactions
20:42and realtors and attorneys, um, they revamped it to, um, you know, uh, purchase heavy refi
20:49heavy down to future, right.
20:52Market signals and stuff like that.
20:53So the team actually takes market signals within, within a model masters, a platform,
20:58they take it, they export it.
21:00We drop it into a Claude project that basically redoes it.
21:04So it's forward facing to the consumer and then it's sent and it's targets specifically,
21:09um, New Jersey, right.
21:11So we're, so it does New Jersey.
21:13It goes, um, what happened in the market, what is happening to interest rates?
21:18And then also what is happening in terms of inventory supply and demand, right.
21:22So it answers the questions for the consumers accordingly.
21:26And then you're able to obviously just structure, you know, and take it from there.
21:29Um, but the pod was definitely one where, when we started doing the market updates, instead
21:34of me just sending you this cheesy thing, we drop it into housing link, right.
21:38Which I'm sure, you know, Scott and his team, right.
21:41Where we've now, instead of me just sending you the video and there's some, that was my
21:45other big part.
21:46And that's why I loved when Scott showed me his platform is I have so much to, to give
21:50you so much to share.
21:52And we actually use it, right.
21:54We're, we're, we're not, we're not someone who's like, oh, you got all this tech and,
21:56you know, every single month I look at my P and out and I'm like, fuck man, dude, we're
22:02like, you're paying for this tech stack.
22:03You're paying for that tech stack.
22:04And I sit down with Leanna, with Leanne, our revenue manager, and I'm like, can I get
22:08rid of stuff?
22:08And I'm like, I really can't because we're using it and it's bringing us the necessary
22:13results.
22:14Um, where the ROI is there, where realtors are loving it.
22:17Clients are loving it.
22:18And then we're taking it from there.
22:19What's your main AI workhorse?
22:21Is it clawed more so than chat or perplexity?
22:25Uh, recently it's been clawed.
22:28I would say within the last three, four months, um, chat is still like the bare infrastructure,
22:35right?
22:36Uh, I mean, especially with the new update, right?
22:38Right.
22:385.5.
22:39I feel like it's like every four months anyways, it's like chat comes out and then they're,
22:43they're, you know, king shit.
22:44And then clawed will come out four months later.
22:46And then now that's the big thing.
22:46So I've been, I try to separate it.
22:49So, so I always break business down into sales service support, right?
22:53I think I use chat more, um, from an operational support perspective, right?
22:59Like some GBT, um, you've got like your connections with your email and you got your connections
23:05with your calendar.
23:05So it tells me, I actually, um, I figured out, um, the other day, my wife always busts
23:10my chops, right?
23:11We've got the calendar, we've got the skylight.
23:13She's got all the stuff.
23:14So she'll still ask me, it's like, Oh, what do you got going on this week?
23:16I have no idea, dude.
23:18Like I got to pull up my calendar and I'll tell you.
23:21So, so I, I, um, and please do this.
23:24This is hilarious.
23:25I, um, I have every single morning at four 59.
23:29It emails my wife, basically summary of my calendar and it's, Hey, good morning.
23:36Always know.
23:36I love you.
23:37Even if I don't say it and don't ask me what I have going on today.
23:42Here it is.
23:42And that's the prompt.
23:44And then it's the actual schedule.
23:46And every time she laughs, um, but it's, it's, so we use it again, like I said, chat
23:52on the operational side, Claude recently, I've been using it more for, um, uh, marketing
23:57branding.
23:58I, I find it to be, um, better at like redoing PDFs and reputting different, different, uh,
24:05marketing strategies and stuff.
24:07Um, and that's kind of how I've been trying to separate it.
24:10I, I, and I fought myself for quite some time to not dive into Claude, right?
24:15Cause I really didn't want to.
24:17Um, and then I did, right.
24:20And then I made, I made the mistake of, um, uh, falling into coding.
24:24Right.
24:25And now it's like, it's, it's, we went to Rhode Island with the kids about, um, three,
24:31yeah, actually about three, four months ago, we, we took the kids to Rhode Island.
24:34And, um, so we started coding websites.
24:36Um, so now we've been like coding websites and apps and stuff.
24:40And what we're doing now is we're basically building those coding websites and then having
24:46them now shared to referral partners.
24:47Like, Hey, I noticed, you know, your website or we're running, um, AEO site checkers, right.
24:52Um, with, uh, I don't know if you know, Eric posts with who's he and his team.
24:56Um, so another, another cool dude, he's all in our circle with Dave and all that fun stuff.
25:01Um, and now we're doing a AEO site checkers and then we're basically running it on
25:06their website and then sharing the results of that to them and be like, Hey, I don't
25:10know if you have a marketing person, but just a heads up, right.
25:12Your AI crawl ability is not coming up.
25:15Right.
25:15And then what do you do?
25:16I'm like, I just do more just, right.
25:18But imagine the diligence for that, how much you think I'm going to do when you send me
25:22a client.
25:23Well, man, I, uh, I really appreciate you taking the time, uh, to, to speak with me and
25:27we have to do this again, uh, very soon.
25:30Make sure and join us again on Thursday for part two of my conversation with Abdel.
25:36Bye.
25:37Bye.
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