- 2 days ago
The presenter, author and radio host spoke to editor-in-chief at Hello! about the importance of mental health and how he takes care of himself and his friends
Category
✨
PeopleTranscript
00:00I am really excited to be welcoming our final guest onto Instagram live in a sec.
00:08He is Dermot O'Leary. He doesn't really need an introduction because you all know him so well
00:14from TV, radio. He's a bestselling author. He hosts a podcast. I mean, there is kind of nothing
00:20that he cannot do. So I'm really excited that he's going to be joining me in a sec. I'm going
00:28to try to get him on now. And hopefully he will appear and we're going to talk all about
00:34men's mental health, how he learns to sort of unbind and switch up. And he's there. Oh
00:41my God, it's worked.
00:42Apart from work, he's...
00:44I actually can't believe it.
00:46I broke his Instagram line.
00:48I know. We're here. I was a bit worried that it wasn't going to work then. Why? It's a nightmare,
00:56isn't it?
00:58Yeah. I mean, it's adding hours to our face, isn't it? That's the thing. But it's all...
01:06It's all going a bit wrong now. But thank you for joining me on World Kindness Day.
01:13Really nice of you to say yes.
01:16Huh?
01:17I said it was really nice of you to ask me. Thank you. Because I'm not, you know, I'm
01:21no guru and I'm no expert on anything.
01:24I know. But it's just important that we have the guys as part of this conversation. You
01:29know, we've had lots of women talking today. And obviously we need our men folk to be engaged
01:34with their mental health and thinking about their own health and able to open up to us.
01:38Because you're our support, you know, at home and in friendships. So it's really important
01:45that we have... So you are speaking for all of the men of Great Britain. Is that all right?
01:49Oh, I think all of them.
01:52Yeah. You are the spokesperson for men folk right now.
01:58Yeah. Okay. Well, let's give it a go then.
02:00Let's give it a go. Yeah. So, I mean, you are kind of the busiest man on the planet.
02:04You do so much. And also you're, of course, a new dad. How, in this always-on world, do
02:12you ever manage to find time for yourself? Like, what do you do to kind of unwind?
02:19Well, I don't... I can't remember, if I'm honest with you. And I don't mean that flippantly,
02:24but I'm in two... I suppose two ways. Firstly, being a new dad.
02:30Congratulations.
02:31Congratulations. Thank you. You're getting all you can handle. I mean, it's...
02:36Nobody prepares you, do they? They can't.
02:38You know, we've got help and stuff, but it's... Yeah.
02:41Yeah, but it's full on. And it's... I had Jerry Seinfeld interview once and he said it's like...
02:47It's like a surfboard on a rainbow. And it's so true in that you're getting...
02:52It's like you're getting all you can handle.
02:55But, you know, the weekends are wonderful, but I also, yeah, I used to make these kind
02:59of lists. Oh, I'll do that this weekend and make sure that... No, no, no. You just don't
03:03do this on the weekend. And actually, I've sort of surrendered myself to that now. And
03:07actually, D&D are really good at tag teaming. So we know if one of us need to go for
03:12pre-lockdown,
03:14if one of us needed to go out and see friends or, you know, we just sort of slow back
03:18into
03:18that world, really. Yeah. And then for me, other than that, it's... To be honest with
03:24you, it's the little things, I think. And I think... And this sounds very like, I'm old,
03:29therefore listen to me. But it's the kind of... It's the small pleasures, I think, that you
03:34derive from everyday life. And I think it's really important that those things... You kind
03:40of live in the moment of those things. So whether it is your first cup of coffee morning
03:43and, you know, I'm getting... Half the week, it's really early. And actually, I'm just
03:50thinking, well, I'm up. So I'll enjoy the sunrise. And I'll enjoy... You know, it's those moments
03:54where you... You're able to just sort of take a beat and... Be present. Exactly. And I don't
04:01want to sound too Paolo Coelho about this, but just, you know, enjoy that. Yeah. And be
04:07grateful for it. I think that's one of the things about becoming a parent, isn't it? That it forces
04:12you to be present. You're just in the moment with your child. Yeah. Yeah. And I just thought,
04:19you're absolutely right. And I think the thing is, before you become a parent, I think you
04:25worry about, well, how am I going to find time for that? And then suddenly, gradually even,
04:31it just does happen. It just happens that you... Your life just becomes... It's the same but
04:38different in many ways, you know? Yeah. You find time to do the important things. And
04:42the things that aren't as important go away. Yeah.
04:46One of the people following said that early exercise is key. And I couldn't agree more.
04:51Yeah. I thought, like, actually...
04:54Yeah. I'd sort of work out with the trainer a couple of times a week and then try and do
04:57my own thing for a few... And actually, I play football on Thursday nights normally, not anymore,
05:01in lockdown. But... And those things are super important. So it's...
05:05Yeah. Especially during lockdown.
05:07Yeah. Yeah, me too. I found exercise such a help.
05:11And cooking and all those sort of things. And being grateful for it.
05:16Yeah. That is a bit of me time, isn't it? Who'd have thought? Yeah. It's only when you become
05:20a parent that you realise doing exercise and things like that are just such precious times
05:25to have for yourself. Yeah. Are you getting much sleep at the moment? Or is that a short slide?
05:32I'm the problem. He's actually terrific. I'm...
05:34Lucky you.
05:36I go through a period about twice a year of waking up. I think when the seasons change,
05:41I don't quite know what it is, but I go through a period twice a year of waking up almost
05:45every
05:45hour or half an hour for five, ten minutes and then go back to sleep. So that's a bit...
05:51I find that kind of that much at the moment. But you pulled a 4.30 on us yesterday.
05:58Oh. That's... Before five is just not on, is it? That's really tough.
06:07That's what you have to read. Like, before five is still night time.
06:11Yeah, it is. And then it's very hard to get back to sleep again and get any deep sleep after
06:16that.
06:16Yeah. And like, you have those... I think I slept into 7.30 the other morning.
06:21D let me sleep after 7.30. Wow. The dream.
06:25Hey, that's fantastic. That's literally just a... That's the whole world away from my old life.
06:30It is. I know. It's crazy, isn't it?
06:33Well, I used to think eight o'clock was really early to have to set me alarm for. I mean,
06:38what?
06:39Yeah. I don't think I've ever slept into it for eight until eight o'clock for about the last seven
06:44years. But anyway, we wouldn't swap it for the world. Oh.
06:46Absolutely. Very grateful. Yeah. So tell me, what does kindness mean to you? We've been asking
06:52people that throughout the day today. And very interesting, sort of the different responses
06:57that we get. I was going to ask you, do you find... Do you think the response is... I mean,
07:03have you had many men on and do you think the response is particularly different, given...
07:07Yeah. Do you know what? We've had mostly women talking. We have had some men. No, I think people,
07:14you know, mostly think that kindness is a sort of selfless act, first and foremost.
07:20And also it is a learned behavior, which is kind of interesting as well, now that we're parents.
07:25What do you mean by that?
07:27That children are not born with empathy. You know, they are born with a kind of lizard brain
07:33that is about living. You know, it is about a question of life or death. So they need to
07:40be fed and they need to sleep. They have to learn the part of their brain that develops empathy and
07:45compassion. Yeah. That's interesting because that's true. But without that, then they are
07:53essentially empty vessels. I mean, those awful scenes in the 90s, when the early 90s, when
08:04the scandal of those, the orphanages in Eastern Europe and Romania came to pass, those kids hadn't...
08:10Because the orphanages were so... Yeah, I remember those images.
08:15...weren't hugged and there was no interaction. And so they were just almost empty vessels.
08:22Yeah.
08:24So whilst I think you're, obviously you're right, there's, you know, without that kind of learned
08:30behavior, you know, you, I mean, we've got the, you know, we saw the free from those pictures,
08:36you know. And so for me, I think, I think kindness really, the heart of kindness is empathy.
08:42And I think that we are all guilty of, of double standards in that regard. And I think we are,
08:52we can all be charged with the accusation of sometimes that we're, we're too impatient
08:58and, and, you know, life takes over. But I think fundamentally, we are an empathetic species.
09:07And, and, and that for me is at the heart of, of any, of any definition of kindness is, you
09:12know,
09:12is, is being able to relate and, and to be empathetic.
09:15Yes. Yeah, you're right. And we've seen that in abundance this year. You know, we've had to be
09:21empathetic in ways that we hadn't really considered before, you know, in our communities,
09:26our neighborhoods, and also from a distance, which has been quite challenging. We've not
09:32been able to see relatives.
09:33And I think, I think, I think it's, it's most, it's mostly really important because you're going
09:38to be empathetic with people, you know, and you love. So that's almost, even though that,
09:43I'm sure that takes work. Yeah. But it's actually more, it's, it's being, I think really the future
09:48is of, if we're, if the post COVID world is actually us being empathetic with other, with
09:54people we don't know. Strangers. Yeah. And so it's difficult, because in one respect, we're now,
09:59we want to live in a world where you see Ron doing, and you call. Yeah. And you, not necessarily
10:07publicly saying people, but you, if you see unreasonable behavior, be able to
10:15brave enough, I suppose. And you want to, you want society to stick up for
10:23anyone that feels oppressed or bullied or harassed. But at the same time,
10:30empathy works both ways. So, you know, it's very easy thing for us to be empathetic, but you always
10:35need to know, well, hang on, why is that person behaving like that in the first place?
10:38Yeah. And often it's to do with the deep rooted issue that they have. Yeah.
10:43But more often than not, you're not going to get to the bottom of that, and you shouldn't be expected
10:47to. So it's kind of, it's a, it's, you know, it's something I think where we just, I think it's
10:54society and the world we've moved so quickly nowadays that I think it's very important just to take
10:58a beat and realize other people's truths. And if they are, um, if people are out, you know,
11:05it's like that great Obama interview he did, I think at his daughter's college campus, when he just said,
11:09you know, people call out other people with so-called virtue signal or what they want to call work
11:15behavior or whatever, but actually good people make bad decisions and good people have bad people,
11:20you know, because people make bad decisions, it doesn't mean that they're bad.
11:24Yeah, that's true. And all of that that you've been saying, um, is, is very sort of prevalent
11:29in the online world as well. We've been talking quite a lot about that today, about people not
11:34being so accountable and maybe passing commentary or, um, making comments that are quite negative
11:40and could be seen as unkind, um, because there's that barrier there and they're not seeing the real
11:46person that is on the other side of that Instagram handle or that Twitter profile.
11:50Yeah. You know, I think, I think, you know, I Twitter's like the wild west now and I, I know,
11:56I don't really engage on it. I think it's become more of, um, I get news from it and I
12:03enjoy following,
12:05I enjoy following accounts that, that I, uh, that I learned from. And actually it's still wonderful
12:11because you can go, you can read great commentary and you can go down a rabbit hole. But the idea
12:15of
12:15putting an opinion on Twitter now is so alien to me because I mean, to start with,
12:20no one really, I think, you know, when it first came out, I think it was, it was,
12:24it democratized so much that everyone, whether you're, whether you have a, you know, a public
12:28image or not, just went, oh, I can say exactly what I think. Great.
12:31I know. Yeah.
12:32I think we all got a bit drunk on it and then you sort of need to stop and think,
12:35does anyone really need to hear my opinion about that?
12:38It's a bit too quick to do, isn't it? You can just make that comment and it's out there.
12:42Yeah. Um, and then, um, but I think it's,
12:46I think the nice thing about Instagram, so now I really use Twitter sort of professionally,
12:50but, uh, but now the great lovely thing about Instagram is that I still feel like there's an
12:54innocence and naivety because it's married to the aesthetic. So, um, you know, it is all about
13:01the aesthetic. So it's kind of, I always say Instagram's like a garden fate in the 1950s
13:06in that someone's showing off their jam tarts going, I made some jam tarts. Yeah.
13:11It's true. That's a very good way to look at it.
13:14And then, and then it's like, oh, I've made a coffee cake. Oh, that's a nice coffee cake.
13:18Yeah. It's a bit more polite, isn't it? Yeah. When people are authentic, I love Instagram. I mean,
13:25I love it because it's a visual medium and to see people being really authentic on there,
13:31I think is so important, isn't it? And refreshing.
13:34Yeah. Um, so we were going to be talking today and predominantly as well about self care, um,
13:41and about kindness to yourself and self compassion. Um, uh, and traditionally, I guess us women think
13:48that we're kind of the ones that are very open and able to talk to our friends about issues that
13:53we
13:53might have and share our mental health, perhaps a bit more readily. Yeah. What are you like? Are you
13:59kind of very, you seem to me as someone who's very in touch with their feelings. Um, you're certainly
14:04show a lot of compassion on the TV shows that you were from. What about when it comes to yourself?
14:10I think I'm, I'm lucky in that for the most part, I have a, a pretty cup, half full, healthy
14:19disposition. So I rarely have blue days. I definitely do have them, but I rarely have blue days.
14:24Mm hmm. And I think with guys, I think it's, it's too much of a cliche to say guys don't
14:33talk
14:33about their feelings. And actually, you know, I don't think we necessarily need a men's international
14:38day because in many ways the day in the history of the world has been a men's international day.
14:43Yes. But if, if, if the one thing it can do is to provide and provoke debate about where
14:53men of all colors and creeds and ages, um, if they're able to open up where they see kind of
15:03manhood and how it evolves, I think then that can only be a good thing. Yeah.
15:08You know, I, I, I think it's a terrible thing for anyone, but especially kind of men in their
15:13forties to kind of shut up shop and almost say, you know, I don't need to learn anymore.
15:18And that can be about the world around them. And that can be about, um, their own feelings
15:23as well. And so I think it's, it's, yeah, it's vitally important. And actually I think
15:27it is getting better and better. I mean, I remember, um, Stan Collymore came out,
15:32the footballer came out. He was, I never met Stan Collymore, but he's had,
15:35I know he's had loads of personal issues and so, and he came out, um,
15:41probably about 10 years ago now and said, Oh, I suffered from depression.
15:47And for the most part, the feedback was on tens of thousands of pounds a week.
15:52And no one would ever think to say that now. And I think the more,
16:00more men talk about it. However, I would think it's,
16:06you can never be too prescriptive about this sort of thing because not everyone wants to talk about
16:10it. Some people actually kind of want to internalize their angst and their grief and,
16:15and, uh, whatever it is that they're upset about. And, and, and maybe that's how some,
16:20so I've got, I know I've got certain groups of friends that I'll die on a hill for.
16:26And certain, certain one group of friends, I know I'll talk about this with, and the other group,
16:33I'll probably talk about, um, uh, politics with another group. I'll talk about, you know,
16:39I just want kind of good time for it. And it's not necessarily, yeah, they're all as important to me,
16:43but when I need to, I know I'll know the certain people I need to speak to and, and vice
16:49versa.
16:49Well, that's great, isn't it? It's all about having that group of friends.
16:53And do you have male friends that you would open up to as well? If you are having that a
16:58blue day,
17:00the door would be open.
17:02Yeah, I think, I think, I think if it's a, if it's, if it's kind of, uh,
17:08uh, uh, something you think, you know, you've been through before and you can kind of write
17:13it out yourself. I tend to do that. Um, and sometimes, you know, all it is, is you need
17:19the change of scenery. And I think lockdowns taught us all that, you know, because someday
17:24you're in the same four walls and you just need, I mean, I, you know, I was, I was, I
17:30work,
17:30I work from home a lot, obviously with all the prep for any research for an interview I do. So
17:34I do,
17:34you know, most of my work at home really. And then, um, I was out the other night and,
17:41and you got to, you know, we put, we had to bath Casper. So it got to about like six,
17:45seven o'clock. It was pitch black, but I thought, I've got to stomp up the hill.
17:48I need to get out and make sure I have that kind of five or half an hour, 45 minutes
17:54of,
17:54even if it means we eat late, then it doesn't matter because you need that.
17:58Yeah. Yeah. And that's about, it comes with age as well, doesn't it?
18:02It's sort of getting to know yourself better as well. And knowing sort of what you need,
18:07what your warning signs are. My husband certainly says to me, your cheeks have gone really red at
18:11the top. Just chill out a little bit. It's like, I tend to go into hyper clock mode. It's cool
18:17when
18:17things feel stressful and it's all too much. And, you know, I even start talking quickly,
18:22but I recognize that sign now. And so you can kind of pay yourself back a bit and take a
18:28few deep breaths.
18:29Definitely. That's one of the nice things about aging, isn't it?
18:34Knowing yourself a bit better and knowing those warning signs and also recognizing them in your
18:39friends so that you can tell them that the door is open and you're here to talk, whether they're
18:44ready to, yeah, or not. You're always there. We all need that, don't we?
18:48Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. And I, you know, I do think guys are slightly more,
18:53it was a, put it this way, it's sort of, I think, I mean, no one really picks up the
18:59phone
18:59for a chat anymore, do they? I mean, in it sort of, and, but when we did used to use
19:05the phone all
19:06the time, for the most part, guys would pick up the phone and myself included.
19:11Yeah. Guys use the phone as a, as a sort of a, a, a, a device to work out when
19:17you're going to meet
19:17your friends. Yeah. Okay. Whereas women, in my experience, tend to use the phone as in,
19:24we just talk about, we can talk about nothing. Yeah.
19:29Probably the root cause of most arguments and relationships when guys are home soon. So I'm
19:34speaking now. Yes. Why did you need to call? Because we're on the phone. Let's just talk now.
19:39It's true. Yeah. But yeah, that's the kind of technology has been a plus and a minus, hasn't
19:45it? I mean, I certainly feel that WhatsApp threads with my groups of friends have got me through
19:50lockdown and I have, you know, a number of different WhatsApp groups with different groups of friends.
19:55And we talk about different things, as you were saying, you go to different paths for different
19:58reasons and having that kind of constantly open chain of communication is great.
20:04So you can share the bad days and also celebrate the good times.
20:09Yeah. I mean, I would hate to be on my screen all day, but I was in the voiceover set
20:13yesterday
20:13and we were waiting for the client to come on. So we had about 20 minutes. So I just sort
20:17of
20:17answered a couple of emails and then I found, I found Reface, my Reface app, which I forgot all
20:24about because my phone got nicked. And then I went, and one of my WhatsApp groups
20:29we've been talking about politics. So I just started morphing my friend Rodney's face with
20:34Nigel Farage. And then I did Margaret. And I did Boris Johnson.
20:39Oh God. I've lost myself to hours to that app as well. It's hilarious.
20:45And Rodney was going on the WhatsApp going, this is so unfair. Why are you
20:49someone else? And then I put Jay in my room.
20:51That's hilarious.
20:52And I gave him Obama. He's really happy. So Rodney said, can I Obama?
20:58You just need friends that make you laugh as well. I find at this moment, don't you?
21:03Sometimes it's like, I just don't want to have a heavy conversation. I just want you to make me laugh.
21:08And the thing is as well, I think it's everyone here, everyone that's logged into this and you,
21:13you know, you and myself included, you would speak to your friends. If you, if most people
21:18heard the way the banter you have with your friends and how you speak to your friends,
21:21they would think you were the worst. I mean, we talk about comments. They would think you were the worst.
21:25Yeah, don't change the subject as well.
21:27Yeah, I know.
21:29You see, you could get sacked for some of the things you say to your friends.
21:31Yeah, you could. Luckily, your friends can't sack you unless you did something really, really bad.
21:36Exactly. But it's just all bets are off, right?
21:41No. This year, all bets are off. Anything, any line of conversation is game.
21:46If it makes you feel a little bit better during the day.
21:49Exactly, exactly. So it's funny in that it's so funny. I mean, literally, something has just popped up.
21:54One of my friends calling another one of my friends for something.
21:58Yeah.
22:01And it's just literally just came up from a notification.
22:06It's funny, isn't it? Because in one respect, we are, and quite rightly, we should be talking about
22:11kindness and empathy. And these are so important things. We evolved as a species. These are hugely
22:15important things that are sort of elemental and fundamental to us, to us as a species.
22:24However, in one respect, you've got that, and in another respect, you've got your friends.
22:28I know! You've got the opposite.
22:30On a daily basis, yeah.
22:31It's all about balance, okay? It's all about balance. Now, listen, I am very disappointed that
22:37you're not sporting this huge handlebar moustache, because you are taking part in Movember, or you're
22:44supporting the Movember campaign.
22:46Well, I thought, look, I did the photoshoot, and then they said to me, look, can you grow a moustache?
22:50And I've tried so hard.
22:53You really should have done. You've let them down there.
22:56So itchy.
22:58Well, you've got time. There's still half a month to go.
23:02What are you talking about?
23:03You could see what happens in the next two weeks.
23:07There's a little bit of a shoot this morning, to be honest with you, but yeah.
23:09Yeah, excuses, excuses. But I gather that they've broadened out the Movember campaign this year.
23:16And so it's obviously about men's health, but it's also about mental health as well.
23:22Have you got much to say on the subject of those campaigns?
23:26Well, I mean, I guess we go back to what we've said already. It's just like, if people want to
23:32talk,
23:32and so I think it's so important there. And I think we're looking at mental health now
23:40in, thankfully, such a more adult and the language you use even. No, you know, the fact that you,
23:49you know, I've been broadcasting for 20 years now, and there are, you know, not intentionally,
23:54but there are probably words that people would use 20 years ago to describe mental health issues
24:00that you wouldn't even think about using.
24:01Yes. Well, even the words mental health, I mean, that wasn't even a kind of
24:07words that we were familiar with. I mean, it does seem absolutely absurd, doesn't it,
24:12that we didn't think of our minds, you know, and of needing to fix what's going on in our heads,
24:18as we would a physical injury.
24:20Yeah. You know, I sort of, I was lucky enough to do, a few years ago, do a documentary about
24:26the,
24:27about the Battle of Britain. And so, I mean, there's only, I think there's only one
24:33Battle of Britain pilot left now. But then there were a few, probably a dozen or so,
24:39and I was able to spend time with at least two of them. And you could pretty much write their
24:45stories
24:47in terms of what happens after the war, pretty uniformly in that, in that they finished the
24:5640s, or mid 40s. They got any job they could. And then they didn't really talk about that. They
25:04just worked hard. And they didn't really talk about the war experiences for 30 years, at least.
25:10Yeah. And started. Because of that time of life, it just wasn't, it wasn't manly to talk about
25:18feelings. And now it's really interesting that the last five, 10 years, I guess,
25:24that there's just been this, A, because they're all passing and B, and we want to, you know,
25:31yeah, and preserve their memories and the prosperity of that all. But at the same time,
25:38I think we, we, we're looking back at what they must have gone through. Like,
25:41there's a wonderful book by a guy called Geoffrey Wellham, who I made a few years ago,
25:45who I met. And Geoffrey wrote kind of the, the, the quintessential, um, first diary of what it
25:51was like to fight, um, fly a Spitfire in the back of the room. It's called First Flight. It's
25:56a beautiful book. It's a brilliant book. Yeah.
25:59And Geoffrey, that happened to him when he was 19. He got retired off the front line when he was
26:0224
26:03from, from PTSD, from nervous exhaustion. He just...
26:06Oh, gosh. Yeah.
26:08Yeah. And my point that I'm making is that, that we've come so far in a blink of an eye,
26:16really, in two generations. And now you look at how we're talking about that,
26:20you couldn't imagine talking about that for 30 years now.
26:23No, you couldn't. Certainly. Yeah. And hello, obviously we feature a lot of royals, um, on our
26:29cover and in our magazine every week. And, and I feel that that is one of the great contributions
26:34that they have made in recent years, you know, this era of buttoned up monarchy is completely over.
26:40And, and they have, you know, through the Heads Together campaign, William and Kate and Harry have
26:45really put, you know, mental health on the map as well. And spoken up about their own experiences,
26:50some of which have been extremely traumatic. Yeah. You know, my wife's Norwegian and we've,
26:55I think we've talked about it a little bit before. You go to, I think sometimes we look at our
26:59royal
27:00family and, and, and we, no, I don't mean with too much reverence, but when you meet them and you
27:06speak to them and I've had the good fortune to, uh, to meet Harry and William and Kate. Yeah.
27:13Um, and obviously Kate's cut from different cloths because, you know, she, she's married into
27:18a royal family. So she's had a life before when you meet them, they are incredibly, um, down to earth
27:25and they've gone out of their way to understand the world around them, which when you consider
27:31the world they've been born into is a very difficult thing for them to do. Um, and they've
27:39just realized that a, for the family to, to be relevant, it has to evolve.
27:42Yeah. Yes. Yeah. My point about the Norwegian royal family is that, you know, they're very
27:47incredibly small and they work very hard. Um, and you'd see them on the ski slopes or you see them
27:52in town. Yeah. The engagement isn't there in the same way. And that, that, that works, I think,
28:01with us over here with, with this new generation and actually to a degree,
28:06the queen does an incredible job, obviously, but to a degree, Charles as well is kind of...
28:11Yeah. And I think they've been very impactful years ago. And he was getting laughed at in the
28:16papers about, about organic farming. And now you look at it and it's, you know...
28:20He was ahead of his time. Yeah. And championing environmental issues way before it became
28:25on the political agenda. Yeah. I think he's going to be very impactful when he becomes king.
28:31Um, yeah. And I think that the royal family also have offered this kind of level, um, of comfort
28:37to the nation in what has been a very challenging, difficult year because they are apolitical.
28:42Um, and because they can, you know, talk about, um, their feelings and things in the public eye,
28:48yeah, without being sort of judged in the same way that politicians might, you know,
28:52there isn't such an agenda with them. Yeah. Which I think is really good.
28:56I think they're funny looking at kindness and mental health though. And I look, I, I, I absolutely
29:01think we hope we should hold our politicians to account. But, but that is not a, that is not an
29:07easy job. I mean, especially... Well, it's not. I mean, who has got the right answer?
29:13Yeah. Some of them do drive, but they're still people. And, uh, and, and, you know, and they
29:21still deserve our sympathy. Like it's pretty nice going to work every day and getting that level of
29:26abuse. Oh, horrendous. I mean, yeah, nobody's got the right answer for this year, really. It's been
29:32extremely difficult. I don't envy the role of any of our politicians, nor our prime minister at the
29:37moment, whatever you think of him. Um, now we must talk a bit about writing because I just read as
29:43well that you have got a fourth book coming out in two weeks, a fourth toto, which is really annoying
29:49because you will have overtaken me in the number of novels you've written. I'm on three. You're on
29:55four. So you've been super speedy. Yeah, but yours are a bit longer than mine.
30:01Yeah, but we were kind of like level pegging for a little bit. And then you kind of sort of
30:06went
30:06straight in there and became this, you know, overnight kind of churning out novels. And the
30:11Toto books are a big hit in our house. As you know, my boys love Toto and Silva's adventures. We've
30:17got a beloved cat too. So we like to think that he might have the life of a ninja because
30:22he's really
30:22in the house at the moment. Um, so do you find for me, certainly, um, as a writer, um,
30:30I find writing is my happy place and I can only really do it when I'm cocooned. I have to
30:36write
30:36late at night and I like to be cocooned ideally in a lovely hotel room. I have to have a
30:42candle on.
30:42If I haven't got everything perfect on my writing table, then the words,
30:46it's like a mental thing that the words are not going to flow.
30:49Is it, is it your sort of happy place? Do you use, is writing cathartic for you?
30:55Yeah, I'm sort of the opposite scale to you in that I write first thing in the morning until
30:58about London. Largely useless after that.
31:01Oh really? Okay. See, I can only ever do it once all the emails have stopped coming in and
31:06phones stopped ringing and it's all quiet and children are in bed.
31:10Oh, where'd you, where'd you get the energy from after that?
31:13I'm just...
31:13That's why I have to stay in a hotel. So my husband's like, oh great,
31:17I've never been in a five star hotel to write. I love going away. I go away for a couple
31:24of nights,
31:24write 10,000 words and then come back.
31:28That is impressive.
31:30But it, but I, I kind of, it's good for my mental health. I love it. There's nothing better for
31:35me
31:35than that feeling of the words flowing and I'm in my little cocoon and I know I'm just going to
31:40stay
31:40there until I get this bit done. Yeah, that's nice. That helps to keep me grounded and safe.
31:47You know, with lockdown, I was lucky enough, I was doing the
31:52second edit or something for one of my books when lockdown kicked in. So I had two weeks where I
31:57barely left the house and I was able to actually get a lot of work done. And then,
32:05you know, I've always loved radio and I've always really appreciated it. I don't think I've ever
32:09appreciated it more than I do and have done this year. Because there's been no telling this year.
32:16I've sort of, I've been able to sort of concentrate on radio and I've never taken it for granted,
32:20but I've never appreciated it more than I have done this year. And I, you know, and people have
32:26been saying I've really engaged with radio this year. And I would say, trust me, people that are
32:32making radio are, it's as equally important for us as it is for, for anyone. You know, it's,
32:40there's such a, like, it's, it's, I think it's, it's, I think people have fallen back in love with
32:45radio this year. I think you're right. Yeah, I think you're right. Because we've all been in our
32:49homes. Radio tends to be something that's on constantly in our kitchen at home. And obviously we're
32:55spending a lot more time in our homes. And music, music therapy is so important, isn't it? And
33:01music can really change your mood. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And your 80s dance moves are very
33:07good as well. I do like those. They're pretty tired. You do like a little bit of a groove in
33:14the kitchen
33:15or in the studio. Always. You might have to finish our chat with a little Friday night. You can shimmy
33:21out
33:21of the... Well, do you know what? We have gone on and on. It's already been half an hour,
33:30so I should let you go because it's probably baby's bedtime or bath time.
33:35I've got to prep for the radio show and then, and then it's milky milk time. What else is happening
33:42on the, on the, on the Hello Happiness Kindness conference? Well, this is our last thing of the
33:49day. Yeah, we've had a really busy day. We've had a number of discussions and panel events. It
33:56kicked off with, I had a great chat with the Duchess of York this morning. Yeah, talking about kindness.
34:03We were chatting for, yeah, almost half an hour as well on the power of kindness. And actually she
34:07spoke very honestly about the unkindness that she's experienced in the online world and spoke,
34:13you know, about not reading her comments and having to disengage with it. She found it so tough.
34:18But she really is a very genuine person and genuinely wants to put some good into the world.
34:24So she spoke very honestly with me. It was a great chat. All of the chats, by the way,
34:28will be on hellomagazine.com forward slash hello to kindness. And we've had some panel discussions.
34:35I had a great chat with Alex Scott earlier, Denise Lewis and Natalie Pinkham. Yeah, all about,
34:40so key sports personalities on kindness in the online world. We've had a careers coach session.
34:47And lots of people obviously thinking of pivoting their careers and making changes.
34:51So a really great discussion, which a life coach hosted on how you can sort of champion yourself to
34:58success. And also a kindness clinic with Lorraine Kelly and Rosie Darling, who answered questions.
35:05I mean, it's been busy. It's been really, really good, but just so lovely to spread some positivity,
35:10you know, and some kindness. But it's...
35:14Have you found in... I mean, Hello has always been a very kind of positive magazine, I guess,
35:21isn't it? But have you found even in the print journalism that the notion of being kind and
35:29empathetic, which you could argue has kind of, you know, is sometimes lacking in certain print
35:36journalism? Do you think that's changed over the years? And it's a bit...
35:41I think we are seeing a kinder environment. I mean, certainly for Hello, we've been published over
35:47here for 33 years now. And kindness has always been at the core of our sort of ethos and the
35:53core of our
35:53business and working closely with people building trusted relationships. But I almost felt when I joined
35:59Hello, 13 years ago, shockingly, that they were a little apologetic about being kind, as though you
36:06couldn't practice cutting edge journalism if you were too nice. And it kind of... I sort of felt, no,
36:12this should absolutely be our superpower. Let's like wear that badge and be really proud of it.
36:18Because that can make us really strong and powerful. It means that people trust us and
36:23they will open up to us, therefore, and we'll get those great interviews, but we'll work hand in
36:28hand. So I really feel very passionately about this whole subject. And it feels really nice, you know,
36:35to be work for a brand that really has that to heart and really does properly stand by our belief
36:42in
36:42kindness. So, yeah, it's all good. Well, you've earned... Thank you. Huh?
36:48You think you've earned a drink? I think I have. You know, it's been a really hectic week.
36:53Book launch yesterday, and then now kindness today. So I think I have. I think I'm gonna go and pop
36:59a
36:59bottle. I think you should do the same as well, because every week's a busy week for you. And
37:06uh, every, every dad needs a drink. Thank you so much. Give Diki a big hug from me as well.
37:14And the
37:14little one, a kiss on the forehead. Thank you. Yeah. And just keep doing what you do. You're such a
37:20ray of
37:21sunshine. You know, I love listening to your shows, seeing you on TV. You're just a lovely
37:25guy. Appreciate you, Rose. Thank you. Thank you. I always love chatting to you.
37:29I'm glad that the tech didn't let us... I know. We're both amazed the tech were.
37:35Should we just stay here? I could keep chatting to you for hours.
37:38Putting the world to rights? Yeah.
37:42If you popped a bottle, it could all go a bit wrong, though.
37:44Yeah. All right. Well, have a great weekend. Thanks so much. See you. Bye. Bye.
Comments